Are players been asked to play to many games ?

[Donegal Hibby]

Listening to Rodri about the amount of games players have to play now .. has he a valid point and it’s something that’s getting out of hand , effecting players through injuries and their performance levels? .

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cew12rw5ldpo#:~:text=Manchester%20City%20midfielde r%20Rodri%20said,%2C%20including%20pre%2Dseason%20 friendlies.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Listening to Rodri about the amount of games players have to play now .. has he a valid point and it’s something that’s getting out of hand , effecting players through injuries and their performance levels? .

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cew12rw5ldpo#:~:text=Manchester%20City%20midfielde r%20Rodri%20said,%2C%20including%20pre%2Dseason%20 friendlies.

Yes.

What they earn is irrelevant, the human body can only take so much exertion. Throw in the added time nowadays adding another 7 or 8% onto a match along with all the extra games and I’m not surprised they’re concerned about it.

I’m sure some will be along to tell them they should try getting a real job working 90h weeks etc but you can guarantee these same people wouldn’t be able to come close to coping with the demands of a professional athlete.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Listening to Rodri about the amount of games players have to play now .. has he a valid point and it’s something that’s getting out of hand , effecting players through injuries and their performance levels? .

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cew12rw5ldpo#:~:text=Manchester%20City%20midfielde r%20Rodri%20said,%2C%20including%20pre%2Dseason%20 friendlies.

It's been ridiculous since COVID, I'm surprised that it's taken so long for someone to speak out.

[Since90+2]

Yes.

What they earn is irrelevant, the human body can only take so much exertion. Throw in the added time nowadays adding another 7 or 8% onto a match along with all the extra games and I’m not surprised they’re concerned about it.

I’m sure some will be along to tell them they should try getting a real job working 90h weeks etc but you can guarantee these same people wouldn’t be able to come close to coping with the demands of a professional athlete.

There is a key misunderstanding here. Are the players being asked to play too many games? In some cases possibly, but it is not the organisations who are doing that it's the managers and coaches of clubs.

Take Rodri for example, he literally plays every single week. City have an absolutely enormous squad and could easily rotate him in and out of games, but Pep as his manager chooses to play him every week, and then moans about the amount of games he has to play.

[lyonhibs]

No. It's a squad game these days and the advances in nutrition, sports science and physio mean that they should take their 300 grand a week and get on with it.

[MWHIBBIES]

On one hand I think they are. I think the Euros showed some players looking worn out.

On the other hand, the top guys make enough in 1 year to retire and never do anything again. So if you hate being asked to work that much, and it's harming you, stop working.

[andrew70]

https://open.substack.com/pub/andrewjeffrey/p/are-football-players-being-asked?r=2f20qe&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

I think they are tbh, it’s a tough one as they get remunerated well for it however they are still human beings and are being asked to do a lot more game to game, week to week, month to month.

The close season has been getting shorter and shorter as the seasons go on especially since Covid.

[Smartie]

On one hand I think they are. I think the Euros showed some players looking worn out.

On the other hand, the top guys make enough in 1 year to retire and never do anything again. So if you hate being asked to work that much, and it's harming you, stop working.

My issue isn't so much that they play too many games through the season (training schedules etc can normally be amended to allow for tough fixture runs) but the fact that the season creeps earlier into June / July for some, and later into June / July at the end of the season for others, due to European and International football.

Everybody needs a break and some don't really get one. That's not good for anyone, no matter what they earn, and it's mental as much as physical. If you're put through the ringer as a fan, just think what it must feel at times to be carrying the weight of a club or a nation or where your actions may end up being worth tens of millions of pounds to people.

[Pretty Boy]

I said it during the Euros when people were complaining John McGinn looked jaded. In 23/24 he played 53 games for Villa and 19 for Scotland, no wonder he was jaded. Rodri played 50 for City and 18 for Spain in the same time period.

It's not a new thing though, top players have always played a huge volume of games. As an example Graeme Souness played 61 games for Liverpool in 83/84 and 12 for Scotland. Between 78/79 and 83/84 he never played less than 50 domestic games a season.

A players earnings are irrelevant really. Yes they are handsomely paid at that level but that doesn't mean acute and accumulated fatigue don't exist. Simply telling them to walk away is harsh as well, why should someone walk away froma job they may well love because sponsors and TV Companies demand ever more coverage? More generally football coverage is just so saturated now that a reduced schedule would be good for fans and players alike but money talks and if anything we'll probably see more games added to the calendar (Wenger's biannual World Cup anyone) rather than any reduction.

[Paulie Walnuts]

There is a key misunderstanding here. Are the players being asked to play too many games? In some cases possibly, but it is not the organisations who are doing that it's the managers and coaches of clubs.

Take Rodri for example, he literally plays every single week. City have an absolutely enormous squad and could easily rotate him in and out of games, but Pep as his manager chooses to play him every week, and then moans about the amount of games he has to play.

Some good points :agree:

[Paulie Walnuts]

No. It's a squad game these days and the advances in nutrition, sports science and physio mean that they should take their 300 grand a week and get on with it.

There’s been advancements in just about every walk of life. Should you just take your money and get on with it if you get asked to work more?

[mcohibs]

There is a key misunderstanding here. Are the players being asked to play too many games? In some cases possibly, but it is not the organisations who are doing that it's the managers and coaches of clubs.

Take Rodri for example, he literally plays every single week. City have an absolutely enormous squad and could easily rotate him in and out of games, but Pep as his manager chooses to play him every week, and then moans about the amount of games he has to play.

Exactly. For every Rodri there’s a player that turns up to training a few times a week and sits and warms the bench on a Saturday. Or doesn’t make the squad. I’m sure there was a stat recently that showed Man City used the fewest number of players out of anyone in world football.

City, with the size of their squad and resources, could easily rotate their lineup to keep everyone fresh and fit but Pep won’t do that because he knows it will compromise results.

These big clubs have the solution staring them in the face but they won’t use it as they value results over player welfare.

[Donegal Hibby]

Yes.

What they earn is irrelevant, the human body can only take so much exertion. Throw in the added time nowadays adding another 7 or 8% onto a match along with all the extra games and I’m not surprised they’re concerned about it.

I’m sure some will be along to tell them they should try getting a real job working 90h weeks etc but you can guarantee these same people wouldn’t be able to come close to coping with the demands of a professional athlete.

Again City related , I listened to Guardiola getting asked about Haalands impressive start to the season and he put down the main contributing factor that he was able to recuperate properly without having any football .

As fans watching games we want to see good games with players playing to their maximum potential though how can they if they are fatigued after 60 / 70 games ? . You also have the increased risk of injuries as the body can only take so much .. Glad Rodri spoke about this as it all seems to be getting out of hand .

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nine-players-could-miss-man-110802230.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHVUA3Olc_bEVDIDpLH80hZHNIm4 CVAVL15qSb5Fc1F9O-_BB2pFujn9EjNXdCYCrTz6CQoEUFjiFlQuywYzp-PMPWFVLGmr0pwy40vHEsVap-oS4wURxk5PIg96dAYwMbePwrLLpUf4UpYFh68L___LkPZdadgw jzMKJFRRmN53

[DH1875]

Not a chance. There is a reason teams have squads.
I'm doing 40000 steps a day, 5 days a week on minimum wage, in a bloody fridge.Guy plays football 3 days a week and earns a fortune and folk think he's got it hard.

[superfurryhibby]

I said it during the Euros when people were complaining John McGinn looked jaded. In 23/24 he played 53 games for Villa and 19 for Scotland, no wonder he was jaded. Rodri played 50 for City and 18 for Spain in the same time period.

It's not a new thing though, top players have always played a huge volume of games. As an example Graeme Souness played 61 games for Liverpool in 83/84 and 12 for Scotland. Between 78/79 and 83/84 he never played less than 50 domestic games a season.

A players earnings are irrelevant really. Yes they are handsomely paid at that level but that doesn't mean acute and accumulated fatigue don't exist. Simply telling them to walk away is harsh as well, why should someone walk away froma job they may well love because sponsors and TV Companies demand ever more coverage? More generally football coverage is just so saturated now that a reduced schedule would be good for fans and players alike but money talks and if anything we'll probably see more games added to the calendar (Wenger's biannual World Cup anyone) rather than any reduction.

I was really surprised at how many international fixtures they play. I appreciate that tournaments will have inflated the 23-24 figures, but that is still a lot of additional football.

I've long thought that clubs would be discouraging players from participating in international football. They (clubs) gain little from it and risk a lot.

[Paul1642]

Not a chance. There is a reason teams have squads.
I'm doing 40000 steps a day, 5 days a week on minimum wage, in a bloody fridge.Guy plays football 3 days a week and earns a fortune and folk think he's got it hard.

There’s no denying that what you’re doing is tough, but the argument there is that you employer shouldn’t be asking this of you. Many people out there have it worse than footballers for a fraction of the pay but that doesn’t mean footballers should be played to the point of exhaustion.

If a players club go far in Europe and the cups they have a ton of games before you factor in Internationals, especially on a World Cup or Euros year.

The European competitions have increased the number of games and the World Cup has grown in size going forward.

Travelling is as tiring as playing and between European away days, International games (especially if your from a further away country) and even some domestic games, players must rack up some amount of miles a year. Even the 2030 World Cup is being partially held over two continents.

Then to top it all off you have clubs playing stupid foreign friendlies.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Not a chance. There is a reason teams have squads.
I'm doing 40000 steps a day, 5 days a week on minimum wage, in a bloody fridge.Guy plays football 3 days a week and earns a fortune and folk think he's got it hard.

40k steps a day?

Holy hell. You must be burning off 2000 calories a day with the walking alone.

[Hibernian Verse]

Not a chance. There is a reason teams have squads.
I'm doing 40000 steps a day, 5 days a week on minimum wage, in a bloody fridge.Guy plays football 3 days a week and earns a fortune and folk think he's got it hard.

There must be other jobs you can do outside a fridge and being worked that hard for minimum wage? That's outrageous. Up to 9 hours of walking in a fridge a day?

[Donegal Hibby]

Not a chance. There is a reason teams have squads.
I'm doing 40000 steps a day, 5 days a week on minimum wage, in a bloody fridge.Guy plays football 3 days a week and earns a fortune and folk think he's got it hard.

We know they earn a fortune though I think the money side of it is irrelevant in its about athletes that are being pushed maybe beyond what is realistic in what they can cope with… there’s more games , more added time , games probably at a standard it’s never been at which requires a fitness levels of training that are extraordinary high .

[Paulie Walnuts]

We know they earn a fortune though I think the money side of it is irrelevant in its about athletes that are being pushed maybe beyond what is realistic in what they can cope with… there’s more games , more added time , games probably at a standard it’s never been at which requires a fitness levels of training that are extraordinary high .

I also laugh when people make out like they have it easy. I would place good money, even removing the lack of technical ability from the question, that the majority of people, if not all of them on this board, would never be able to cope with the physical demands, mental pressure, publicity and levels of discipline that footballers have to show nowadays.

[Pretty Boy]

I also laugh when people make out like they have it easy. I would place good money, even removing the lack of technical ability from the question, that the majority of people, if not all of them on this board, would never be able to cope with the physical demands, mental pressure, publicity and levels of discipline that footballers have to show nowadays.

There was a segment on Friday Sportscene or similar years ago where 2 guys with regular jobs swapped places with 2 St Johnstone players for a few days. I'm sure one of the players was George O'Boyle (who was later involved in some drug issue and sacked) and I can't recall the other. I think the 'normal' guys were roofers. Anyway by the 3rd day the roofers were absolutely shattered and desperate to go back to their regular jobs. They both said they couldn't believe how physically demanding being a footballer was. Both said they had gone into it with preconceptions of a couple of hours pissing about with a football then bookies and pub for the rest of the day and they were shocked at how intense and tiring it was.

That will be even more true now. Technology and recovery has all certainly moved on but football is far quicker now and there is so much more running involved.

[Wilson]

I also laugh when people make out like they have it easy. I would place good money, even removing the lack of technical ability from the question, that the majority of people, if not all of them on this board, would never be able to cope with the physical demands, mental pressure, publicity and levels of discipline that footballers have to show nowadays.

I don't know. You don't have to work at an especially high level to be required to cope with excessive physical demands and discipline. I think a lot of people, coming from places where they do have to apply that but don't get the renumeration, might appreciate the opportunity.

Footballers, only knowing football, know how tough they have it. But perhaps they have no appreciation of what the folk who pay to see them go through.

Certainly Joe Newell doesn't want my six night shifts a week.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I also laugh when people make out like they have it easy. I would place good money, even removing the lack of technical ability from the question, that the majority of people, if not all of them on this board, would never be able to cope with the physical demands, mental pressure, publicity and levels of discipline that footballers have to show nowadays.

depends what you mean.

If you mean go straight from the barely active, sedantory lifestyle and rubbish diet that a lot of us have into the life of a footballer then yeah, of course it would be incredibly difficult if not impossible.

Footballers are able to cope with the physical demands of their job precisely because they don't live like the rest of us. And if we were footballers we wouldn't live like we do now either.

[worcesterhibby]

The idea that players play more games now just doesn’t hold water.

Rodri played 63 games last season..an exceptional season where he was playing for a club team that as reigning Campions League winners was playing in Premier League, fa cup, league cup, community shield Euefa super cup and FIFA world club cup. And internationally in a team tat played every possible game in the Euros.

A standard amount of games for an internationalist playing in 1978 is over 60 games a season. A good similar example would be Kenny Dalglish in 1978. He played 62 competitive games for Liverpool ( it would have been more but the got knocked out the Fa cup by Chelsea in the 3rd round) and played 10 games for Scotland. So Kenny ( without threatening to go on strike and without getting paid a million pounds a month) played exactly 70 games that season.. if Scotland had been a bit better and got past the group stages, it would have been more.

shut up Rodri, you moaning weasel, your not actually playing more football than past top players, but you are getting paid Far far more and have all the medical and sports science available to aid recovery.

Pat Stanton played over 50 games a Season for Hibs on 6 occasions, twice 56 games.. add a few internationals and you are easily up there with Rodri

[Since90+2]

There was a segment on Friday Sportscene or similar years ago where 2 guys with regular jobs swapped places with 2 St Johnstone players for a few days. I'm sure one of the players was George O'Boyle (who was later involved in some drug issue and sacked) and I can't recall the other. I think the 'normal' guys were roofers. Anyway by the 3rd day the roofers were absolutely shattered and desperate to go back to their regular jobs. They both said they couldn't believe how physically demanding being a footballer was. Both said they had gone into it with preconceptions of a couple of hours pissing about with a football then bookies and pub for the rest of the day and they were shocked at how intense and tiring it was.

That will be even more true now. Technology and recovery has all certainly moved on but football is far quicker now and there is so much more running involved.

I'm not really sure how relevant it is plucking 2 random guys off the street and asking them to train as a professional footballer.

It's fairly obvious they won't have the required standard of fitness as a professional athlete.

If however you took a fit 20 year old who runs regularly and gave them a few months of access to the facilities and sports nutrition that footballers have I'm guessing they'd have a comparable level of fitness as atleast a proportion of Scottish level players. They'd be ***** at football compared to them, but I'm not sure that would need a job swap to learn that.

Conversely a lot of footballers could not do the job a lot of "normal" people do without the required level of training in whatever random role they were parachuted in to do.

[Pretty Boy]

I'm not really sure how relevant it is plucking 2 random guys off the street and asking them to train as a professional footballer.

It's fairly obvious they won't have the required standard of fitness as a professional athlete.

If however you took a fit 20 year old who runs regularly and gave them a few months of access to the facilities and sports nutrition that footballers have I'm guessing they'd have a comparable level of fitness as atleast a proportion of Scottish level players. They'd be ***** at football compared to them, but I'm not sure that would need a job swap to learn that.

Conversely a lot of footballers could not do the job a lot of "normal" people do without the required level of training in whatever random role the job swap selected.

I think the point was that being a footballer, or any professional athlete, is hard work. Hard work that many of them are very well compensated for of course but a real graft all the same. You only have to look at the emotional and physical wreck many athletes are when they win an Olympic medal to see the dedication it takes to reach the pinnacle of a chosen sport.

Obviously the segment in question was a light hearted, tongue in cheek entertainment piece. The point remains though that to reach the level of fitness and endurance at which being a footballer becomes just a normal job that doesn't leave you physically exhausted every day is far from a doss. You've acknowledged it as much yourself by saying that it would take an already fit 20 year old a few months to attain that level of fitness. They then of course have to maintain and potentially improve that fitness year on year. That takes hard work, exceptionally tiring hard work.

The issue isn't about ability to do a job in the technical sense, of course your average footballer couldn't just pitch up and be an accountant any more than you or I could bang in 20 goals for Hibs this season, it's about the physical demands of the job. I'd argue being a professional athlete in any sport that marries aerobic and anaerobic fitness in they way football does is up there as some of the most physically demanding work around.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't know. You don't have to work at an especially high level to be required to cope with excessive physical demands and discipline. I think a lot of people, coming from places where they do have to apply that but don't get the renumeration, might appreciate the opportunity.

Footballers, only knowing football, know how tough they have it. But perhaps they have no appreciation of what the folk who pay to see them go through.

Certainly Joe Newell doesn't want my six night shifts a week.

I’d be astonished if there’s many people if any at all, who are putting their bodies through more than a professional athlete does on a daily basis.

I’ve also never seen a footballer claim they have no appreciation of what the people who pay to see them go through. I’ve seen hundreds of comments suggesting footballers have it easy though.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think the point was that being a footballer, or any professional athlete, is hard work. Hard work that many of them are very well compensated for of course but a real graft all the same. You only have to look at the emotional and physical wreck many athletes are when they win an Olympic medal to see the dedication it takes to reach the pinnacle of a chose sport.

Obviously the segment in question was a light hearted, tongue in cheek entertainment piece. The point remains though that to reach the level of fitness and endurance at which being a footballer becomes just a normal job that doesn't leave you physically exhausted every day is far from a doss. You've acknowledged it as much yourself by saying that it would take an already fit 20 year old a few months to attain that level of fitness. They then of course have to maintain and potentially improve that fitness year on year. That takes hard work, exceptionally tiring hard work.

The issue isn't about ability to do a job in the technical sense, of course your average footballer couldn't just pitch up and be an accountant, it's about the physical demands of the job. I'd argue being a professional athlete in any sport that marries aerobic and anaerobic fitness in they way football does is up there as some of the most physically demanding work around.

:agree:

[Since90+2]

I’d be astonished if there’s many people if any at all, who are putting their bodies through more than a professional athlete does on a daily basis.

I’ve also never seen a footballer claim they have no appreciation of what the people who pay to see them go through. I’ve seen hundreds of comments suggesting footballers have it easy though.

It's not on a daily basis. They normally get 2 rest days a week for starters and some training sessions are recovery and light work, they aren't putting their bodies through 20km runs 7 days a week.

That doesn't mean of course they aren't very fit at our level (but there are people in the general public who are also very fit) and exceptionally fit at the very top of the game, but they aren't pushing their bodies to the limit each and every day. Anyone who knows fitness understands recovery and nutrition are equally as important as the actual fitness work aspect.

[MWHIBBIES]

The idea that players play more games now just doesn’t hold water.

Rodri played 63 games last season..an exceptional season where he was playing for a club team that as reigning Campions League winners was playing in Premier League, fa cup, league cup, community shield Euefa super cup and FIFA world club cup. And internationally in a team tat played every possible game in the Euros.

that is a standard amount of games for an internationalist playing in 1978 is over 60 games a season. A good similar example would be Kenny Dalglish in 1978. He played 62 competitive games for Liverpool ( it would have been more but the got knocked out the Fa cup by Chelsea in the 3rd round) and played 10 games for Scotland. So Kenny ( without threatening to go on strike and without getting paid a million pounds a month) played exactly 70 games that season.. if Scotland had been a bit better and got past the group stages, it would have been more.

shut up Rodri, you moaning weasel

Pat Stanton played over 50 games. Season for Hibs on 6 occasions.

Games and training now are significantly more intense than in the 1970s.

[Since90+2]

I think the point was that being a footballer, or any professional athlete, is hard work. Hard work that many of them are very well compensated for of course but a real graft all the same. You only have to look at the emotional and physical wreck many athletes are when they win an Olympic medal to see the dedication it takes to reach the pinnacle of a chosen sport.

Obviously the segment in question was a light hearted, tongue in cheek entertainment piece. The point remains though that to reach the level of fitness and endurance at which being a footballer becomes just a normal job that doesn't leave you physically exhausted every day is far from a doss. You've acknowledged it as much yourself by saying that it would take an already fit 20 year old a few months to attain that level of fitness. They then of course have to maintain and potentially improve that fitness year on year. That takes hard work, exceptionally tiring hard work.

The issue isn't about ability to do a job in the technical sense, of course your average footballer couldn't just pitch up and be an accountant any more than you or I could bang in 20 goals for Hibs this season, it's about the physical demands of the job. I'd argue being a professional athlete in any sport that marries aerobic and anaerobic fitness in they way football does is up there as some of the most physically demanding work around.

I think it's about the type of fitness rather than overall fitness. As a 20 year old I could knock out a 10km in 40 minutes, 5km in 19 minutes and a half marathon in about 90 minutes.

If you had me pitch up at the first day of pre season I would be certain that my base level of fitness would have been better than a good proportion of those at Scottish clubs.

Like football ability we are talking about different levels when comparing fitness at Scottish teams and guys who play at clubs like Man City. They are miles technically better than us but as athletes they are also on a different level.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I think it's about the type of fitness rather than overall fitness. As a 20 year old I could knock out a 10km in 40 minutes, 5km in 19 minutes and a half marathon in about 90 minutes.

If you had me pitch up at the first day of pre season I would be certain that my base level of fitness would have been better than a good proportion of those at Scottish clubs.

Like football ability we are talking about different levels when comparing fitness at Scottish teams and guys who play at clubs like Man City. They are miles technically better than us but as athletes they are also on a different level.

:agree:

The John McGinn who rocked up at Easter Road last year with Villa was a very different animal to the John McGinn who walked out of Easter Road in the summer of 2018. Completely different body shape.

[Since452]

No. A couple of games of football a week and a few hours a day training isn't a high workload. It's a dream workload for millions of people.

That's without considering the wages the likes of Rodri are earning. Taking the piss saying otherwise. The only thing working too hard is Rodris jaw. Not for the first time.

[Since90+2]

:agree:

The John McGinn who rocked up at Easter Road last year with Villa was a very different animal to the John McGinn who walked out of Easter Road in the summer of 2018. Completely different body shape.

Stephen Dobbie was a great example.

When he initially played in Scotland he wasn't exactly in great shape and still played at a good level. When he returned after being at Swansea he literally looked like a different person, his face shape had completely changed.

I think the idea that all players in the Scottish premier are supreme athletes that nobody could possibly comprehend being close to their level of fitness or dedication is a little naive.

[greenlex]

Games and training now are significantly more intense than in the 1970s.
Not sure that’s true either. Players have never been more mollycoddled. The pace of the game has certainly increased but I’m not so sure the physicality of it has. Players at the top end pass the ball more and I don’t think they run more these days. They certainly roll about more for sure. I think 60 games in the 50’s 60s 70 or 80’s would take more out a player than 60 games these days. I’m also certain training is better geared around rest than it was. Could you imagine Eddie Turnbull allowing players to skip training or nit do what other players were because they were playing too much?

[Smartie]

I think the point was that being a footballer, or any professional athlete, is hard work. Hard work that many of them are very well compensated for of course but a real graft all the same. You only have to look at the emotional and physical wreck many athletes are when they win an Olympic medal to see the dedication it takes to reach the pinnacle of a chosen sport.

Obviously the segment in question was a light hearted, tongue in cheek entertainment piece. The point remains though that to reach the level of fitness and endurance at which being a footballer becomes just a normal job that doesn't leave you physically exhausted every day is far from a doss. You've acknowledged it as much yourself by saying that it would take an already fit 20 year old a few months to attain that level of fitness. They then of course have to maintain and potentially improve that fitness year on year. That takes hard work, exceptionally tiring hard work.

The issue isn't about ability to do a job in the technical sense, of course your average footballer couldn't just pitch up and be an accountant any more than you or I could bang in 20 goals for Hibs this season, it's about the physical demands of the job. I'd argue being a professional athlete in any sport that marries aerobic and anaerobic fitness in they way football does is up there as some of the most physically demanding work around.

I was initially surprised (then not after I'd had it explained to me) when I heard someone from the world of American football showing quite a lot of respect towards the athleticism of "soccer" players.

In a lot of American sports, there is a lot of time on the sidelines, with little bursts of activity that the players obviously have to be in tip top shape for.

But in "our football" there isn't really much of a hiding place for 90 minutes, occasionally 120. The new increased sub numbers will help and there will be passages of play when players will be allowed to stand, walk or jog, but you never really know if - well over an hour into a game - you might be called upon to sprint the length of a football pitch, and not doing it simply isn't an option (or certainly shouldn't be).

So yeah - professional football is certainly a tough shift and widely acknowledged and respected as such.

This may also be the place to bring up the fact that over the past 2 or 3 decades there have been quite a few cardiac arrests of well-tuned athletes on football pitches - which must ultimately be attributed to something.

[Since90+2]

I was initially surprised (then not after I'd had it explained to me) when I heard someone from the world of American football showing quite a lot of respect towards the athleticism of "soccer" players.

In a lot of American sports, there is a lot of time on the sidelines, with little bursts of activity that the players obviously have to be in tip top shape for.

But in "our football" there isn't really much of a hiding place for 90 minutes, occasionally 120. The new increased sub numbers will help and there will be passages of play when players will be allowed to stand, walk or jog, but you never really know if - well over an hour into a game - you might be called upon to sprint the length of a football pitch, and not doing it simply isn't an option (or certainly shouldn't be).

So yeah - professional football is certainly a tough shift and widely acknowledged and respected as such.

This may also be the place to bring up the fact that over the past 2 or 3 decades there have been quite a few cardiac arrests of well-tuned athletes on football pitches - which must ultimately be attributed to something.

Although it's a 90 minute game I believe the average time actually with the ball in play is 55 minutes.

I think players cover somewhere around 11km per game. That's a high amount at fairly high intensity but miles below something like Tour De France for example.

[SHODAN]

There should be less games in a season and player salaries should be capped.

[Donegal Hibby]

No. A couple of games of football a week and a few hours a day training isn't a high workload. It's a dream workload for millions of people.

That's without considering the wages the likes of Rodri are earning. Taking the piss saying otherwise. The only thing working too hard is Rodris jaw. Not for the first time.

It’s not just Rodri though . It’s managers and other players that are now beginning to voice their concerns about the amount of games that are increasing .

The wages a footballer is on hasn’t anything to do with something that’s increasing which might have an affect on their performances or put them at risk both physically and mentally IMO .

Even this one who’s a goalkeeper makes a good point in that it should be discussed with players what they think is acceptable amount of games before increasing games ….

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/arid-41477323.html

[Pretty Boy]

:agree:

The John McGinn who rocked up at Easter Road last year with Villa was a very different animal to the John McGinn who walked out of Easter Road in the summer of 2018. Completely different body shape.

Does that not just further emphasise the point of someone like Rodri rather than detract from it though?

Scottish Premiership players will be fit, exceptionally so. To go up another few fitness levels again whilst taking on an increased workload, face competition from fitter, faster and more talented players as McGinn has done will place greater strain on the body.

Jürgen Klopp was questioned a couple of years back about the number of scientists, nutritionists, conditioning coaches etc Liverpool had. He said players train right on the edge now; there is no margin for error and all the recovery, nutrition etc has to be right. If it's not the demands on their body are such that there would be a breakdown.

I think players have every right not to want to add another 5-10 games a season into the mix or to want additional international commitments every other summer.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Does that not just further emphasise the point of someone like Rodri rather than detract from it though?

Scottish Premiership players will be fit, exceptionally so. To go up another few fitness levels again whilst taking on an increased workload, face competition from fitter, faster and more talented players as McGinn has done will place greater strain on the body.

Jürgen Klopp was questioned a couple of years back about the number of scientists, nutritionists, conditioning coaches etc Liverpool had. He said players train right on the edge now; there is no margin for error and all the recovery, nutrition etc has to be right. If it's not the demands on their body are such that there would be a breakdown.

I think players have every right not to want to add another 5-10 games a season into the mix or to want additional international commitments every other summer.

Your paragraph about Klopp is part of what I was trying to say earlier. The level of discipline and commitment is out of this world at the top level. 99.9% of the population just wouldn’t have it in them to show that level of commitment, discipline and effort.

[Pretty Boy]

Your paragraph about Klopp is part of what I was trying to say earlier. The level of discipline and commitment is out of this world at the top level. 99.9% of the population just wouldn’t have it in them to show that level of commitment, discipline and effort.

I think that's it. It's mental discipline as much as physical.

I loved Ricky Hatton when he boxed. Went to see him multiple times in Manchester and followed him to Vegas as well. His whole normality was a big part of his appeal. The pints, the full breakfasts, the weight gain. He was relatable despite having £20M in the bank. There's a reason he was found totally wanting when he came up against a gym rat like Floyd Mayweather though or why he was washed at 32 whilst Bernard Hopkins was a world champion until a few weeks shy of his 50th birthday.

There was a thread on the PM board recently about things people believe they could do despite all the evidence to the contrary. I think the workload of a pro footballer falls into that category for many. The workload and strain placed on the body of a top level footballer seems to be seriously underestimated.

[DH1875]

There must be other jobs you can do outside a fridge and being worked that hard for minimum wage? That's outrageous. Up to 9 hours of walking in a fridge a day?

7.5 hours a day, 5 days a week. Average about 40,000 steps a day and I'm not even one of the quickest guys. Some of the guys are doing even more.

[gbhibby]

Games and training now are significantly more intense than in the 1970s.
The pitches today are so much better. Perhaps players are being over trained now. I am sure there was a quote from a manager who said to a player who said he was tired that there would be plenty of time to rest after you retire.

[MWHIBBIES]

The pitches today are so much better. Perhaps players are being over trained now. I am sure there was a quote from a manager who said to a player who said he was tired that there would be plenty of time to rest after you retire.

Yeah. The pitches are better. They have to be, the game is much, much faster.

These funny little tidbits by managers aren't especially relevant.

To me, if almost everyone involved at the top level of football is saying it's a problem, it's probably a problem.

[gbhibby]

Although it's a 90 minute game I believe the average time actually with the ball in play is 55 minutes.

I think players cover somewhere around 11km per game. That's a high amount at fairly high intensity but miles below something like Tour De France for example.
Some athletes run that distance every day in training,tennis players play every day or every other day. Maybe that was Rhodris excuse for the game against Scotland.

[Smartie]

Yeah. The pitches are better. They have to be, the game is much, much faster.

These funny little tidbits by managers aren't especially relevant.

To me, if almost everyone involved at the top level of football is saying it's a problem, it's probably a problem.

Sure.

But there is also the issue that those who have the power to do something about it are choosing not to, such as Manchester City having the finances they have to build a squad capable of a bit of rotation but still choosing to play Rodri every week.

They could play a much fresher and slightly inferior player instead of him once in a while but instead choose to moan and blame other people.

[Smartie]

Some athletes run that distance every day in training,tennis players play every day or every other day. Maybe that was Rhodris excuse for the game against Scotland.

Tennis players have a similar sort of stop start - wild sprints and contortions but spells where they can catch their breath.

The distance run is only a small part of it.

There is also the contact sport nature of football to take into consideration - the physical nature of holding other players off or weathering (or committing) tackles.

Not saying athletics or cycling is necessarily easy (from the comfort of my sofa) but football can be a pretty gruelling sport.

I actually find that it's quite good sometimes to get as close to pitch level at a Hibs game to appreciate the pace and physicality of it at close quarters - it all looks quite easy from either high up in a stand or the angles that most games are televised from.

[MWHIBBIES]

Sure.

But there is also the issue that those who have the power to do something about it are choosing not to, such as Manchester City having the finances they have to build a squad capable of a bit of rotation but still choosing to play Rodri every week.

They could play a much fresher and slightly inferior player instead of him once in a while but instead choose to moan and blame other people.

I do agree with that aspect. Although Rodri is far and away their most important player. They are miles worse without him. No player they have is only slightly worse.

Squads should rotate more. Although look at the ****ing meltdown on hibs.net when we did it in the league cup.

[Since90+2]

Some athletes run that distance every day in training,tennis players play every day or every other day. Maybe that was Rhodris excuse for the game against Scotland.

Id be very surprised if any top athlete runs 20km every single day. Maybe in a short space of time, but no qualified coach which these guys all have, would put that into a training program over a long term.

It would do more harm than good.

[hibsbollah]

A lot of good points on the thread. Because it was in the news recently with Gary Shaw’s death, I had a look at the number of games that the Aston Villa European cup winning team of 1982, featuring Des Bremner and basically a core group of 13 players with little rotation. 42 Division One games, 9 league cup games, 9 European cup games, 3 FA cup after anearly exit. (Ignore the one charity shield if you like, thats 63 games before all the international games that would have affected Scotland and England players in a world cup year. Very different sport today, i get it, but still i think the smaller squads then is relevant too. Very tough. I think the demands have always been intense.

[heidtheba]

No, players aren't being asked to play too many games. The clubs are being asked to play too many games. Each club has a squad, those squads should be carefully rotated. I supppose it would be helpful if the players union came out with an idea where a player should play, say, 40 games a season? 30 for the club and 10 internationals. Once that's been set, the clubs should allocated the games accordingly.
I DO think there's too much football now, some of the games are not quite the 'big deal' they once were. I've given up watching the CL and have only watched a few of the finals over the last few years. They're doing the same with F1 - used to be 16 races and now there are over 20. It just feels less 'special' now, but that could be me speaking and thinking like an auld chuffer.

[gbhibby]

Id be very surprised if any top athlete runs 20km every single day. Maybe in a short space of time, but no qualified coach which these guys all have, would put that into a training program over a long term.

It would do more harm than good.
Footballers run between 9 and 13.5k per game not 20k big difference. I think the top players who are playing internationals end of season tournaments maybe have a case if they do not get enough rest. Rhodri plays in a team who are involved in Europe and he is a full international so he will play a lot of games. I would rather be in his position rather than having big gaps between games like most players who are not as lucky as him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think that's it. It's mental discipline as much as physical.

I loved Ricky Hatton when he boxed. Went to see him multiple times in Manchester and followed him to Vegas as well. His whole normality was a big part of his appeal. The pints, the full breakfasts, the weight gain. He was relatable despite having £20M in the bank. There's a reason he was found totally wanting when he came up against a gym rat like Floyd Mayweather though or why he was washed at 32 whilst Bernard Hopkins was a world champion until a few weeks shy of his 50th birthday.

There was a thread on the PM board recently about things people believe they could do despite all the evidence to the contrary. I think the workload of a pro footballer falls into that category for many. The workload and strain placed on the body of a top level footballer seems to be seriously underestimated.

Absolutely. Even just following the diet of an elite level footballer would be beyond many, never mind everything else that goes with it.

[Since90+2]

Absolutely. Even just following the diet of an elite level footballer would be beyond many, never mind everything else that goes with it.

An elite footballer yes. A Scottish league player? no.

Look at some of the players we've had over the years. You can tell simply by looking at them the don't follow an extremely healthy diet.

[Paulie Walnuts]

An elite footballer yes. A Scottish league player? no.

Look at some of the players we've had over the years. You can tell simply by looking at them the don't follow an extremely healthy diet.

It’s not really Scottish league players that are moaning about the amount of games.

[Since90+2]

It’s not really Scottish league players that are moaning about the amount of games.

I get that, but the conversation has drifted into the discussion about players in general, and as we are a Scottish club it's relevant.

[Donegal Hibby]

I do agree with that aspect. Although Rodri is far and away their most important player. They are miles worse without him. No player they have is only slightly worse.

Squads should rotate more. Although look at the ****ing meltdown on hibs.net when we did it in the league cup.

There was valid reasons for that one though :wink:

[Since90+2]

Tennis players have a similar sort of stop start - wild sprints and contortions but spells where they can catch their breath.

The distance run is only a small part of it.

There is also the contact sport nature of football to take into consideration - the physical nature of holding other players off or weathering (or committing) tackles.

Not saying athletics or cycling is necessarily easy (from the comfort of my sofa) but football can be a pretty gruelling sport.

I actually find that it's quite good sometimes to get as close to pitch level at a Hibs game to appreciate the pace and physicality of it at close quarters - it all looks quite easy from either high up in a stand or the angles that most games are televised from.

Top level cycling is, IMO atleast, the most difficult sport in the world in terms of pure fitness. The VO2 capacity of those cyclists is unbelievable and would be far ahead of the ability of elite players, let alone the general public.

It's hard to compare sports though. Another poster mentioned boxing and they might not have the pure dedication out of training camp as elite footballers, but they fight other elite level fighters up for up to 36 minutes at times, in a solo arena without teammates.

The emotional and physical tole that will have on a person will exceed even what elite level footballers endure.

[B.H.F.C]

Football players don’t need to go on strike. Their clubs just need to look after them properly, simple as that. And those who run the game. They want all the additional games for the revenue it brings but it’s impacting the quality as well.

[Donegal Hibby]

https://www.nssmag.com/en/sports/38062/matches-season-footballers-injury

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-6xTW6AvOg

[McHibby]

I am really in two minds about this. I find myself agreeing with every post because I can absolutely see both sides of the argument.

On the one hand I think (with a few exceptions) they play max two games per week. Approx 3.5 hours of intensive exercise over a 7 day period, hardly seems excessive for a professional athlete.

But on the other, there are now so many players who are going public that - regardless of whether the risk is perceived rather than proven - it obviously is a widespread concern.

I agree with Since90+2 about the club's responsibility for managing the number of minutes/games.

The players are directly employed by their club, not by FIFA, UEFA or their domestic association. Every other employer has a duty of care for their staff and a responsibility to mitigate risks to health (mental and physical), football clubs should be no different. No one is holding a gun to their head telling them player X *must* play every single minute of every single game.

The first thing they could do is drop the exhibition games in the US, Asia etc the minute the season ends.

[JimBHibees]

I am really in two minds about this. I find myself agreeing with every post because I can absolutely see both sides of the argument.

On the one hand I think (with a few exceptions) they play max two games per week. Approx 3.5 hours of intensive exercise over a 7 day period, hardly seems excessive for a professional athlete.

But on the other, there are now so many players who are going public that - regardless of whether the risk is perceived rather than proven - it obviously is a widespread concern.

I agree with Since90+2 about the club's responsibility for managing the number of minutes/games.

The players are directly employed by their club, not by FIFA, UEFA or their domestic association. Every other employer has a duty of care for their staff and a responsibility to mitigate risks to health (mental and physical), football clubs should be no different. No one is holding a gun to their head telling them player X *must* play every single minute of every single game.

The first thing they could do is drop the exhibition games in the US, Asia etc the minute the season ends.

Your last paragraph sums up the nonsense of it

[Bobby's Cinema]

I think as a fan there are too many games at the top level.

Don't know if it's because we were actually at the euros and Hibs started so early but feels alot this season. Also champions league tuesday wednesday thursday this week - doesn't interest me trying to follow that every night.

As a neutral I've not found myself half as interested in the english premier league as I normally would be for example. And I think that's down to sheer number of games.

[Musselbound]

I think as a fan there are too many games at the top level.

Don't know if it's because we were actually at the euros and Hibs started so early but feels alot this season. Also champions league tuesday wednesday thursday this week - doesn't interest me trying to follow that every night.

As a neutral I've not found myself half as interested in the english premier league as I normally would be for example. And I think that's down to sheer number of games.

Fair points but isn't a lot of that generally to do with the number of games on the telly rather than per se? Granted there may be some more European games and more clubs involved for longer spells over the three competitions. Presumably this is something most of the clubs are happy about in order to make more money.

In terms of domestic football, the number of games played in most of Europe's top leagues has remained steady for some time. As for the players, few are playing every minute of every game. Back in the day with only two substitutes more top players were probably playing more 90 minute games. Some team used fewer players all season than you'd see in a single matchday squad now. Dundee United in their 80s heyday were just one example of that as I recall.

[Paulie Walnuts]

There’s been a lot of fair points regarding players of yesteryear and the amount of games some of them played.

I dare say players nowadays will be rightfully looking at them with their metal hips and knees though and saying “I shouldn’t be worked to the point of needing that when I retire.”

[hibsbollah]

There’s been a lot of fair points regarding players of yesteryear and the amount of games some of them played.

I dare say players nowadays will be rightfully looking at them with their metal hips and knees though and saying “I shouldn’t be worked to the point of needing that when I retire.”

Toni Kroos recent retirement at 33 when he was clearly still one of the very best in the world last year spoke to this. I remember reading even as a young guy he had a plan to retire and spend quality time doing what he wanted with his life (and with as many tendons and ligaments intact as possible, presumably).

[Pagan Hibernia]

Related to this I've just looked at Hibs fixtures and by the time we travel to Tannadice on 19th October we'll have played a grand total of three games in seven weeks!

Then the obligatory fixture pile-up in December and early January (10 games in 5 weeks).

There probably are too many games, but the authorities and planners really don't help matters.

[greenlex]

Toni Kroos recent retirement at 33 when he was clearly still one of the very best in the world last year spoke to this. I remember reading even as a young guy he had a plan to retire and spend quality time doing what he wanted with his life (and with as many tendons and ligaments intact as possible, presumably).
Was his retirement not the exact opposite ? He looked around and saw the young players with little drive and motivation with too much money for little effort and in some cases skill. Didn’t recognise the footballing landscape he started the game with and decided enough was enough? Might be getting him mixed up with someone else.

[Donegal Hibby]

Related to this I've just looked at Hibs fixtures and by the time we travel to Tannadice on 19th October we'll have played a grand total of three games in seven weeks!

Then the obligatory fixture pile-up in December and early January (10 games in 5 weeks).

There probably are too many games, but the authorities and planners really don't help matters.

Thought last season’s pile up of fixtures really caught up with us around that time too . Think it’s ridiculous how unbalanced the fixtures can be .

[gbhibby]

Related to this I've just looked at Hibs fixtures and by the time we travel to Tannadice on 19th October we'll have played a grand total of three games in seven weeks!

Then the obligatory fixture pile-up in December and early January (10 games in 5 weeks).

There probably are too many games, but the authorities and planners really don't help matters.
The lack of games can lead to injuries as well as players are conditioned to play 2 games a week if not 3.

[hibsbollah]

Was his retirement not the exact opposite ? He looked around and saw the young players with little drive and motivation with too much money for little effort and in some cases skill. Didn’t recognise the footballing landscape he started the game with and decided enough was enough? Might be getting him mixed up with someone else.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/may/22/irreplaceable-toni-kroos-walks-away-early-at-the-top-a-mic-drop-moment

His teammates were actually ridiculously complementary of him, as was anyone who knows their football. And he planned it for a good while.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Simply yes in my opinion.

To play at any full time level you have to be an athlete as well as have ability. These days players are expected to run harder faster and further than at any time in football history, they also play for longer, many into their mid to late 30s .... not because players in the past didn't work hard, but the pace and strength of the guys you are playing against week in week in the modern game is of a higher level and you have to match that or you won't make it.

It doesn't matter how much players get paid, they are still human beings and IMO modern sports science or not this glut of games will result in a bunch of 50 year old cripples through arthritis and other degenerative illnesses.

[Eyrie]

I am really in two minds about this. I find myself agreeing with every post because I can absolutely see both sides of the argument.

On the one hand I think (with a few exceptions) they play max two games per week. Approx 3.5 hours of intensive exercise over a 7 day period, hardly seems excessive for a professional athlete.

But on the other, there are now so many players who are going public that - regardless of whether the risk is perceived rather than proven - it obviously is a widespread concern.

I agree with Since90+2 about the club's responsibility for managing the number of minutes/games.

The players are directly employed by their club, not by FIFA, UEFA or their domestic association. Every other employer has a duty of care for their staff and a responsibility to mitigate risks to health (mental and physical), football clubs should be no different. No one is holding a gun to their head telling them player X *must* play every single minute of every single game.

The first thing they could do is drop the exhibition games in the US, Asia etc the minute the season ends.

Whilst I agree about dropping the meaningless commercial friendlies from the fixture list, FIFA and UEFA are every bit as guilty when it comes to adding more competitions to the fixture list and expecting the top players to feature without no concern shown for the welfare of those players. It's the same with the international managers not giving players a rest.

Bowie is missing for Hibs precisely because Gemmill ignored the fact that he was still working his way back from a hamstring injury and had started the game against Spain on a poor pitch only four days previously, with the consequence that Bowie re-injured his hamstring against the might of Malta U21s. Hibs were showing a duty of care to the player by building up his minutes gradually and yet he is now out because of a game he could easily have sat out with no effect on the result.

[Donegal Hibby]

I watched this and don’t think unlimited subs would work as teams want their best players on the park….

https://youtu.be/wKWh3-0nB0Q?feature=shared

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Simply yes in my opinion.

To play at any full time level you have to be an athlete as well as have ability. These days players are expected to run harder faster and further than at any time in football history, they also play for longer, many into their mid to late 30s .... not because players in the past didn't work hard, but the pace and strength of the guys you are playing against week in week in the modern game is of a higher level and you have to match that or you won't make it.

It doesn't matter how much players get paid, they are still human beings and IMO modern sports science or not this glut of games will result in a bunch of 50 year old cripples through arthritis and other degenerative illnesses.

I concur. 👏

[McHibby]

Whilst I agree about dropping the meaningless commercial friendlies from the fixture list, FIFA and UEFA are every bit as guilty when it comes to adding more competitions to the fixture list and expecting the top players to feature without no concern shown for the welfare of those players. It's the same with the international managers not giving players a rest.

Bowie is missing for Hibs precisely because Gemmill ignored the fact that he was still working his way back from a hamstring injury and had started the game against Spain on a poor pitch only four days previously, with the consequence that Bowie re-injured his hamstring against the might of Malta U21s. Hibs were showing a duty of care to the player by building up his minutes gradually and yet he is now out because of a game he could easily have sat out with no effect on the result.

I forgot about international games 🤦

Yeah, there absolutely needs to be better alignment between clubs and FAs especially when it comes to managing players who are returning to fitness. The decision to play Bowie twice, knowing fine well his situation, was reckless.

Internationals aside, I still think the primary responsibility lies with the club. UEFA and FIFA certainly aren't bending over backwards to protect players and they will always want the superstars out in force. But they can't demand that certain players must feature. The club decides who plays and, if they chose to, they could rest any player at any stage in the season. However that would require them to put employee welfare before commercial interests. If I was of a cynical nature, I could be tempted to believe it suits clubs to let UEFA and FIFA soak up the blame.

[Keith_M]

I used to work as a Window Cleaner, 35-40 hours a week rushing around houses and office buildings while carrying heavy ladders, running up and down ladders for hours on end

Makes me wonder now how many steps and how many kilometres I'd do every day.



Footballers, bunch of wimps! :greengrin

[007]

Not sure that’s true either. Players have never been more mollycoddled. The pace of the game has certainly increased but I’m not so sure the physicality of it has. Players at the top end pass the ball more and I don’t think they run more these days. They certainly roll about more for sure. I think 60 games in the 50’s 60s 70 or 80’s would take more out a player than 60 games these days. I’m also certain training is better geared around rest than it was. Could you imagine Eddie Turnbull allowing players to skip training or nit do what other players were because they were playing too much?

Players do run about a lot more these days. In the 70s they'd run on average about 6-8km per match and now it is around 10-12km. Back in the 70s defenders would not be involved in attacks nearly as much as these days and similarly attackers would track back a lot less than they do now.

[greenlex]

Players do run about a lot more these days. In the 70s they'd run on average about 6-8km per match and now it is around 10-12km. Back in the 70s defenders would not be involved in attacks nearly as much as these days and similarly attackers would track back a lot less than they do now.

Pah!!!! They didn’t even have KM in the 70s.
I’ll bet both were regularly involved in more robust challenges..

[blackpoolhibs]

Footballers are so much fitter these day than before, and clubs have many more players they can rotate with.

Clubs can limit their time on the park if they want to, but do they really want to?

[gbhibby]

Players do run about a lot more these days. In the 70s they'd run on average about 6-8km per match and now it is around 10-12km. Back in the 70s defenders would not be involved in attacks nearly as much as these days and similarly attackers would track back a lot less than they do now.
Defenders were involved in attacks just as much in the past Brownlie and Shades were attacking full backs no difference to the way the game is played today.Jock Stein had his defenders as far forward as they are today.The pitches were not the standard they are today. Never heard Ronaldo complaining about playing too many games. Players today have better medical advice and access to equipment to help rehabilitation from injuries, not given an injection and told to play before the injury had healed properly. If you are a top player like Rhodri you will play more games than others, you can say no if you are not 100%.

[O'Rourke3]

I can't quite remember if its the Gordon Smith book or Johnnyboys book on Hibs but there is at least one example oh Hibs playing 3 competitive matches in 3 days. In December. Maybe 1 substitute. Players are now much fitter, better trained and better fed. In those days, the balls were heavier, kit was heavier and pitches sh@oite. Assault on opponents was deriguer. While everything has got quicker and faster serious injuries are the exception.
If the current set are overplayed, it's what they want as they want to keep their place . Managers that tinker, rotate and lose get sacked.

Sent from my SM-A556B using Tapatalk

[AugustaHibs]

And now rodri is out for a year, even having been slowly reintroduced.

[neil7908]

They do absolutely play too many times games. I can't say I exactly feel sorry for them but I think the issue with players is that decisions are being made by football authorities to 'grow the game' without any thought of the themselves.

One thing that does my head in though is seeing clubs travel literally around the world for pre season friendlies, and then the very same managers blame football authorities for overexertion.

[Haymaker]

They do absolutely play too many times games. I can't say I exactly feel sorry for them but I think the issue with players is that decisions are being made by football authorities to 'grow the game' without any thought of the themselves.

One thing that does my head in though is seeing clubs travel literally around the world for pre season friendlies, and then the very same managers blame football authorities for overexertion.We have a new 32 team "Club World Cup" being held next summer as well. Starting on June 15th until July 13th. The Premier League is scheduled to start on August 16th.

The Champions League final is May 31st.

Sent from my SM-A426U1 using Tapatalk

[Donegal Hibby]

And now rodri is out for a year, even having been slowly reintroduced.

Players seem to be picking up more and more injuries now . I know Rodri isn’t the flavour of the month with some though as a neutral when watching the premier league you want to see the best players playing and Rodri would be in that category.

https://metro.co.uk/2024/09/23/man-city-receive-rodri-injury-update-arsenal-scare-21656520/?ito=newsnow-feed

[hibsbollah]

Players seem to be picking up more and more injuries now . I know Rodri isn’t the flavour of the month with some though as a neutral when watching the premier league you want to see the best players playing and Rodri would be in that category.

https://metro.co.uk/2024/09/23/man-city-receive-rodri-injury-update-arsenal-scare-21656520/?ito=newsnow-feed

In what way is he not flavour of the month? I assumed he was well respected as the best in the world at his position (that isnt called Ngolo, obviously).

[JohnM1875]

In what way is he not flavour of the month? I assumed he was well respected as the best in the world at his position (that isnt called Ngolo, obviously).

Cause of his comments after Scotland beat Spain last year I'd imagine. Still wouldn't want to see him injured.

[JimBHibees]

And now rodri is out for a year, even having been slowly reintroduced.

Wow that is a sore one for him and City. Players definitely playing too many games. Club tournament can bolt as can the global friendly nonsense and the increased European club games.

[Donegal Hibby]

In what way is he not flavour of the month? I assumed he was well respected as the best in the world at his position (that isnt called Ngolo, obviously).

I took it some on here had the hump with him after the Scotland game . Maybe I’m wrong on that though. Fantastic player who will be a big loss to the English Premier League .

[McD]

I am really in two minds about this. I find myself agreeing with every post because I can absolutely see both sides of the argument.

On the one hand I think (with a few exceptions) they play max two games per week. Approx 3.5 hours of intensive exercise over a 7 day period, hardly seems excessive for a professional athlete.

But on the other, there are now so many players who are going public that - regardless of whether the risk is perceived rather than proven - it obviously is a widespread concern.

I agree with Since90+2 about the club's responsibility for managing the number of minutes/games.

The players are directly employed by their club, not by FIFA, UEFA or their domestic association. Every other employer has a duty of care for their staff and a responsibility to mitigate risks to health (mental and physical), football clubs should be no different. No one is holding a gun to their head telling them player X *must* play every single minute of every single game.

The first thing they could do is drop the exhibition games in the US, Asia etc the minute the season ends.



It’s not 2 games max in 7 days for the guys at the top (who are the ones complaining), it can be 3 games in 6 days (Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday is common enough). Then there’s the travelling which can be significant. As an example, Newcastle could be at home on a Sunday, travel to Turkey for a Wednesday night match, then back to Britain, and then be travelling to Brighton on a Saturday for a 12:30 kickoff.


It’s also not 3.5 hours of intensive exercise a week, unless you think training is done at walking pace.

[Since90+2]

It’s not 2 games max in 7 days for the guys at the top (who are the ones complaining), it can be 3 games in 6 days (Sunday, Wednesday, Saturday is common enough). Then there’s the travelling which can be significant. As an example, Newcastle could be at home on a Sunday, travel to Turkey for a Wednesday night match, then back to Britain, and then be travelling to Brighton on a Saturday for a 12:30 kickoff.


It’s also not 3.5 hours of intensive exercise a week, unless you think training is done at walking pace.

If they are playing 3 games a week then training sessions will be very limited for the guys who are playing.

It will be closer to walking pace than intensive training anyway, if they are doing any actual pitch work at all.

[McD]

If they are playing 3 games a week then training sessions will be very limited for the guys who are playing.

It will be closer to walking pace than intensive training anyway, if they are doing any actual pitch work at all.


I’ve no doubt the training will be adjusted to accommodate rest and recovery, but to say (not you) that playing is the only intensive exercise is a bit disengenuous imo. The players at that level will still need to maintain fitness (matches will be a large part of that of course), and they often get little downtime in the summer due to international football, which again reduces recovery.


They’ll still need to participate in attacking/defensive/set piece training, which will not be full on intensive but will be taken at reasonable pace (for them), plus the mental aspect of learning playing patterns. I agree that in that 6 day window, the recovery and travel will heavily reduce full on training/activity though.


Recovery is another element that’s been mentioned on the thread, the level of exertion that top level football demands, with the addition of heavy physical contact during matches, requires time for the body to reset, and injuries to heal. But when another match is only a couple of days away, it stretches the body’s ability to recover - Bowie being a prime example of too much in a short period of time. In some ways it’s extraordinary how many top players are capable of managing the volume they already do.

[Itsnoteasy]

Games and training now are significantly more intense than in the 1970s.

Played on perfectly manicured pitches.

[MWHIBBIES]

Played on perfectly manicured pitches.

Yes. I'm not sure that really offsets it though.

[hibsbollah]

I took it some on here had the hump with him after the Scotland game . Maybe I’m wrong on that though. Fantastic player who will be a big loss to the English Premier League .

I see :aok: I can’t actually remember what he said, if it was something along the lines of we were lucky as **** with the goals and the weather was a massive leveller i tend to agree with him :greengrin We qualified for the euros because we got a massive stroke of luck in those two crucial games; Spain home and Norway away. Everything since then has shown us to be bang average in most areas of the pitch IMO.

[gbhibby]

Remember watching a documentary on Liverpool in the late 70s. Their players before the season would work very very hard on their fitness. Training during the season would be playing bounce games and some running. They played a lot of matches using a small squad. Is sports science relied upon too much today? You need to compare injuries of players who are in successful teams and play for their country in major tournaments against those who play less games in a season to see if the ratio of injuries is higher the more games that a player plays. Whilst the game has got faster it is less physical, diet has improved and players are probably better conditioned now to cope.

There are arguments on both sides in the posts on here which have some validity.

I am sitting on the fence on this one

[MWHIBBIES]

Dani Carvajal joins the list. Seriously injured last night, knee ligaments.

[Donegal Hibby]

Dani Carvajal joins the list. Seriously injured last night, knee ligaments.

There seems to be a lot of players picking up injuries this season .

[MWHIBBIES]

There seems to be a lot of players picking up injuries this season .

17 knee ligament injuries in the top 5 leagues already.

[gbhibby]

17 knee ligament injuries in the top 5 leagues already.

How does that compare to other seasons? Is it due to players having an end of season tournament. How many appearances have they made this year. I don't think you can use that stat to say that it is due to players playing too many games without further investigation.

[McD]

17 knee ligament injuries in the top 5 leagues already.


I wonder if the modern pitches that have a mesh just under the surface contribute to knee injuries, where the turf doesn’t have as much give in it if a boot on the ground twists?


That and the shape of some studs these days, a longer flatter shape also doesn’t twist in the ground as easily.


I could be totally wrong with both of those tbf

[MWHIBBIES]

I wonder if the modern pitches that have a mesh just under the surface contribute to knee injuries, where the turf doesn’t have as much give in it if a boot on the ground twists?


That and the shape of some studs these days, a longer flatter shape also doesn’t twist in the ground as easily.


I could be totally wrong with both of those tbf

Id imagine a lot of science has been done on both, but i dunno either.