Elie youan

[AugustaHibs]

Deleted all mention of hibs off his social media accounts, and also unfollowed hibs on instagram.

Do we expect him to stay beyond tomorrow evening?

Also, could his injury be what’s holding him back from leaving?

[Pete70]

Maybe getting rid of his SM coz he’s fed up of the abuse he gets 🤷

[Real Emerald]

Has he still got his toys in his pram though?

[Iain G]

Deleted all mention of hibs off his social media accounts, and also unfollowed hibs on instagram.

Do we expect him to stay beyond tomorrow evening?

Also, could his injury be what’s holding him back from leaving?

Maybe we should delete any reference to Ellie Youan?!

[tonyrougier123]

Seems to be making a statement by deleting his hibs content, a mercurial talent that needs to step away from social media. Youan is part of the team not the team apart of youan. He’d be some player if he could knuckle down.

Any player that doesn’t want to be at hibs should be moved on it’s detrimental to the team and causes problems.

[USA_Hibee]

Could be the other way round? Maybe he's seen negative comments and decided to remove the pics as a sign of a new start? Hes maybe done some thinking and has decided to change his social media habits. Who knows.

Probably unfolowed the club Instagram as 90 percent of the comments on anything about him are negative. There aren't many but it's mostly negative that I see.

[H18 SFR]

He’s arguably hounded out the club.

[7Hero]

maybe getting rid of his sm coz he’s fed up of the abuse he gets 🤷

yawn.....

[Hibee Daft]

Really like Youan, has loads of potential hope he has great career.

Wish him well if he's leaving

Hope he's not just leaving because of idiots on social media tho

[ekhibee]

Really like Youan, has loads of potential hope he has great career.

Wish him well if he's leaving

Hope he's not just leaving because of idiots on social media tho

This.

[AugustaHibs]

Why do people keep trotting out the ‘leaving because of the social media abuse’ line?

It isn’t right and should be condemned, but that’s not the reason youan would want to leave hibs.

Every footballer on the planet will get abusive messages on instagram and twitter.

[Steve20]

He’s arguably hounded out the club.

Behave.

He's wanted away for ages.

[SHODAN]

Wish him all the be- WAIT HE DELETED HIBS FROM HIS SOCIAL MEDIA?! WHERE THE **** IS MY WITCH BURNING OUTFIT

[USA_Hibee]

Behave.

He's wanted away for ages.

Just curious how you know that?

[Jones28]

Elie Youan would be an asset to anyone in this league when he's at his best.

Hope he stays and Gray can get the best out of him, and if he goes hopefully we make a good fee, either way the abuse he's had from Hibs fans is deplorable.

Social media is a cesspit and I don't give a **** either way he has pics of him in Hibs gear or not. Who cares?

[Trinity Hibee]

Seems to be making a statement by deleting his hibs content, a mercurial talent that needs to step away from social media. Youan is part of the team not the team apart of youan. He’d be some player if he could knuckle down.

Any player that doesn’t want to be at hibs should be moved on it’s detrimental to the team and causes problems.

Agree and that goes for many footballers. Need to feel the love online, which isn’t going to happen in the current age. Racist abuse etc is absolutely not on . Footballers are in public eye and will be judged as they have done since day dot.

Clubs probably need to do more with players around social media training.

[B.H.F.C]

Why do people keep trotting out the ‘leaving because of the social media abuse’ line?

It isn’t right and should be condemned, but that’s not the reason youan would want to leave hibs.

Every footballer on the planet will get abusive messages on instagram and twitter.

He’ll be leaving because someone wants to pay a couple of million quid for him and pay him more money. We’ll be happy to sell him if the money is good for us and he’ll be happy to go if the money is good for him.

[DIXIHIBS]

He’ll be leaving because someone wants to pay a couple of million quid for him and pay him more money. We’ll be happy to sell him if the money is good for us and he’ll be happy to go if the money is good for him.

Stop with all the sensible crap, it'll never catch on...

[Real Emerald]

Hope the money doesn’t come in too late for us to spend it, would be just like the thing. 😁

[Gordy M]

Hope the money doesn’t come in too late for us to spend it, would be just like the thing. ��

Yeh thats one of the issues on deadline day, what if some team comes in with an offer of 2.5 million at 9pm? What do you do?

[HoboHarry]

Stop with all the sensible crap, it'll never catch on...
That's a couple of sensible posts today - admins must all be asleep at the wheel if they aren't deleting them :greengrin

[EGL2000]

Yeh thats one of the issues on deadline day, what if some team comes in with an offer of 2.5 million at 9pm? What do you do?

I think any significant offer and he's away. We won't want to keep players round if he doesn't want to be here. I'd imagine the club are already planning for him being away and will have a replacement lined up. I doubt the interest would just come out of complete nowhere this late on. However, we could possibly limp to Jan without him being replaced. Definitely know one else in the squad like him currently.

[Greenio]

Really like Youan, has loads of potential hope he has great career.

Wish him well if he's leaving

Hope he's not just leaving because of idiots on social media tho

If he leaves because of a few idiots on social media hes an idiot himself.

Social media idiots are at every club.

I really like him as a player. But he needs to get to grips with it or get off it, which maybe is what hes doing now.

Its his injury keeping him here

[jeffers]

He never wanted to sign in the first place. How convenient it would be to blame social for leaving now.

[greenlex]

Yeh thats one of the issues on deadline day, what if some team comes in with an offer of 2.5 million at 9pm? What do you do?
Grasp it with both hands.

[we are hibs]

Why do people keep trotting out the ‘leaving because of the social media abuse’ line?



Because some folk on here and social media absolutely despise other Hibs fans and look for any opportunity to declare how bad and "toxic" the Hibs support are.



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[JohnM1875]

Just posted another screengrab of someone calling him a monkey (with emojis). Edinburgh laddie called Aydan.

Some folk are totally unhinged and sick in the head.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Just posted another screengrab of someone calling him a monkey (with emojis). Edinburgh laddie called Aydan.

Some folk are totally unhinged and sick in the head.

And it takes no time at all to track down what school he went to or who his mother is.

Aydan, if you ever read this, I hope you’re ****ing sweating, praying that your mum, school etc don’t find out. I reckon that’s unlikely though. Idiot.

[JimBHibees]

Yeh thats one of the issues on deadline day, what if some team comes in with an offer of 2.5 million at 9pm? What do you do?

Immediately respond with the clubs bank details

[EGL2000]

Just posted another screengrab of someone calling him a monkey (with emojis). Edinburgh laddie called Aydan.

Some folk are totally unhinged and sick in the head.

Awful behaviour, hope he's put a complaint into the club so that can get kicked out straight away. However that is should be banned.

[Trinity Hibee]

Just posted another screengrab of someone calling him a monkey (with emojis). Edinburgh laddie called Aydan.

Some folk are totally unhinged and sick in the head.

Just seen it. Embarrassing and everything that is wrong with the internet and people nowadays

[SunshineOnLeith]

So bloody depressing that he gets such persistent racist abuse from our own fans. Hope the club are offering him support and also coming down like a ton of bricks on anyone sending him that stuff.

[B.H.F.C]

So bloody depressing that he gets such persistent racist abuse from our own fans. Hope the club are offering him support and also coming down like a ton of bricks on anyone sending him that stuff.

Genuine question, is there persistent racist abuse?

[04Sauzee]

Genuine question, is there persistent racist abuse?

Racial abuse once is once to many!!

[B.H.F.C]

Racial abuse once is once to many!!

Of course it is, but it’s still different to saying he is racially abused persistently.

Edit, didn’t realise there was a tweet with any racist abuse (which I’m guessing there has been going by posts below).

[lugz]

Just tweeted the club and Kieran Power with screenshot of Youans page and the ****bags profile, other people should do similar and get these idiots banned from hibs immediately.

[IanM]

That’s an absolute ****ing shocker. Call it out.. Can the individual out.. get this in the bin.

[Paul1642]

He’s arguably hounded out the club.

I don’t agree with this. 99% of our fan base aren’t racist cavemen and have been generally supportive of him.

Hounded out the club would be getting bood from the stands and the average fan shouting for him to leave. That’s not been the case.

Shame on the few who have made him feel that way though.

[DIXIHIBS]

Because some folk on here and social media absolutely despise other Hibs fans and look for any opportunity to declare how bad and "toxic" the Hibs support are.



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Naw. Some folk on here despise alleged Hibs who abuse the clubs players way beyond what's acceptable. Some supporters are toxic and you have to wonder why they even follow Hibs tbh.

[Green-Hibee-7]

It could just be because the algorithm on X in particular shows me more Hibs related content, but we don’t half seem to have a fairly sizeable attention seeking element on social media. Not all of it as disgusting as what Youan seems to have received, but just Hibs ‘fans’ desperate to slate players, fellow fans or the club in general. Breeds negativity. All for a few engagements. Totally weird behaviour.

It’s a weird world cause back in the day if you came out with half the crap I see on social media about the club in person, you can guarantee people would call these idiots out face to face. Probably another reason to come off that platform tbh.

[Paul1642]

So bloody depressing that he gets such persistent racist abuse from our own fans. Hope the club are offering him support and also coming down like a ton of bricks on anyone sending him that stuff.

I genuinely can’t get my head around it. We have had loads of foreign and black players in recent years and this doesn’t seem to have been an issue until Youan. Why is he getting singled out? His performances are good so it’s not like he’s being hated on for his ability. Idiots.

[SteveHFC]

Excellent statement by the club.

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/2024/august/29/club-statement--elie-youan/

[Walter]

These racist c**** can get the f away from my club.

[Stuart93]

Disgusting.

Good to see the club put out a statement backing him

Hope the wee scrotes identified. Unfortunately doubtful it’ll be anymore than a slap on the wrists by the courts.

Lifetime ban from Easter road.

[Pretty Boy]

It's idiotic in the extreme to call someone a monkey in the 21st century (or ever for that matter). Even moreso to do so using your own name on a social media account.

Good to see the club get a statement out quickly condemning it as depressing as it is that it had to happen at all.

[Blaster]

He never wanted to sign in the first place. How convenient it would be to blame social for leaving now.

Exactly mate. Nobody should be abused and the statement is spot on but it won’t be the reason he leaves.

[nickwhibs]

Good to see Hibs have put out a statement. Would also be good to see some kind of banner from the fans at the next Hibs game showing solidarity with Ellie. As Angela Davis said “it’s not enough to be non-racist, we must be anti-racist”

[Smartie]

Delighted with the statement Hibs have put out.

It needed said.

[Since452]

Some absolute wee fannies follow Hibs unfortunately

[SunshineOnLeith]

I genuinely can’t get my head around it. We have had loads of foreign and black players in recent years and this doesn’t seem to have been an issue until Youan. Why is he getting singled out? His performances are good so it’s not like he’s being hated on for his ability. Idiots.

Let's face it, it's because he's a bit 'flash' so is an easy target for racists who don't like the way black people dress, the music they listen to, or basically anything they do which isn't quite 'white'.

[we are hibs]

.

[hulk]

Some absolute wee fannies follow Hibs unfortunately
Is it definite they support Hibs. Anyone can hide behind an account and abuse players of any club.

[Donegal Hibby]

He probably wants to move on for financial reasons , maybe going back near home or other reasons . One things for sure though the abuse and now this racial abuse Elie has got hasn’t helped in anyway and it’s totally unacceptable.

Absolutely cracking player for us and hope he’s ok .

Don’t care what age this lad , if he’s young doesn’t say much about his upbringing.

Time to make an example and ban the little **** for life .

[badabing67]

Excellent statement by the club.

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/2024/august/29/club-statement--elie-youan/


I hope its an indication that Elie is staying. Think we need to get him a banging good song

[007]

Why do people keep trotting out the ‘leaving because of the social media abuse’ line?

It isn’t right and should be condemned, but that’s not the reason youan would want to leave hibs.

Every footballer on the planet will get abusive messages on instagram and twitter.

Why do people trot out the getting abuse is part of being a footballer line? They usually add a bit saying that it isn't okay to abuse players and should be condemned however the act of saying it is part of being a footballer or that the player shouldn't look at social media is tacitly saying that some abuse is okay.

How do you know it isn't the reason (or partly the reason) he would want to leave?

[Houston7]

Excellent statement by the club.

https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/2024/august/29/club-statement--elie-youan/

Delighted with the Club statement, but I do think they could have taken action much earlier - if the suggestions made on here over the months have been accurate. I hope it has a few idiots very worried.
As an octogenarian, who did voluntary youth work in Edinburgh’s West End in the days of Mods & Rockers (when there was no hiding place behind a keyboard), I find it extremely depressing what some folk think is acceptable these days - and as for those who defend them ……..

[21.05.2016]

No excuse for the racism, complete embarrassment for the club and the majority of decent fans.

Another wannabe hard man hiding behind a keyboard :rolleyes: get the moron found, charged and make sure he’s never at ER again. Not welcome pure and simple.

[JohnM1875]

Delferriere replying to Elie hinting he’s been getting abuse as well. Sickening.

‘Again, again and again… nothing ain’t change. Now it’s your turn’

[Bishop Hibee]

Sad. Too many racists emboldened by incendiary language by politicians and tik-tok etc. 10 year ban for the laddie. Come back when he’s ready to support the players regardless of their colour. Well done Hibs for the statement. Never forget we were founded by economic migrants.

[Logie]

Unbelievable only Hibs fans could chase our best player out the club. Feel sorry for Youan and the other players that have received racial abuse. Mostly from faceless wee idiots. Some proper ****bags in our support spoiling it for the majority.

[21.05.2016]

Exactly mate. Nobody should be abused and the statement is spot on but it won’t be the reason he leaves.

Might not be the one and only reason but it certainly can’t have helped.

[JohnM1875]

Might not be the one and only reason but it certainly can’t have helped.

Completely agree. **** having to put up with that from folk that are supposed to support the club you play for.

[LaMotta]

Just posted another screengrab of someone calling him a monkey (with emojis). Edinburgh laddie called Aydan.

Some folk are totally unhinged and sick in the head.

Is the boy a Hibs fan?

[stoneyburn hibs]

I like Elie, decent player but not one that I'd be too upset if he moved on.
I would be gutted if he didn't want to play for us due to online abuse, that is not on.
********s abusing anyone shouldn't be anonymous.

[DIXIHIBS]

Delferriere replying to Elie hinting he’s been getting abuse as well. Sickening.

‘Again, again and again… nothing ain’t change. Now it’s your turn’

Add in that any potential black players in future will think twice about coming to Hibs when they see sh#t like this. Shocking.

[DIXIHIBS]

Is the boy a Hibs fan?

That's the problem with social media...anyone can pretend to support any club and dish out abuse. Not saying this tool isn't a Hibs 'fan'.

[Peanut Shaz]

Sad, angry, embarrassed. Just a few emotions I feel. Absolutely no excuse for this type of behaviour by ‘one of our own’. Hopefully Hibs deal with him quickly and make sure he never sets foot inside Easter Road again. We really do have some ignorant supporters amongst us and it needs stopped now. I hope Youan stays and has a great season for us but I wouldn’t blame him if he chooses to move on. Sad days.

[hibsbollah]

Lets not be daft and pretend we dont have a problem with racism. Society has a problem with racism, so it would be weird if it didnt infect ALL football clubs. Ive heard disgusting anti black comments 3 times over the years at ER. What’s important is that we continue to call it out as a club. Which we have.

[Tambo]

Strongest action would be a lifetime ban to show this kind of stuff is unacceptable, I've honestly not remembered a game where Youan didn't try a leg and just picked up a wage, gave his all for the club and reward us with goals and assists.

[B.H.F.C]

Add in that any potential black players in future will think twice about coming to Hibs when they see sh#t like this. Shocking.

I doubt it. Sadly he’s not the first and won’t be the last black player to receive this type of abuse online whether it’s here or anywhere else. There’s idiots doing this type of thing online all the time, this is probably one of the rare occasions it’s actually been highlighted.

[500miles]

Add in that any potential black players in future will think twice about coming to Hibs when they see sh#t like this. Shocking.

........how can someone be potentially black?


I'd ban the laddie until he's 21 and have him dragged in by the ear to apologise.

[Centre Hawf]

I honestly never thought we would have a problem with racism in our fanbase, there are always the odd idiot sadly that lets you down but they were usually so few and far between that you could describe it as quite rare to witness.

But I have to say the treatment Elie Youan in particular over the last 10/12 months has been a growing concern to me. I know people won't want to hear it or agree with it but I honestly think the attitude towards Elie on social media has been atrocious to the point where I can only assume now that most of these people have a sub conscious tinge of racism to them even if they don't go as far to say a slur.

And by the way you can file some of the treatment of Rocky under that as well. It's an absolute disgrace to see people treated this way and then have it excused because they're footballers.

[LaMotta]

That's the problem with social media...anyone can pretend to support any club and dish out abuse. Not saying this tool isn't a Hibs 'fan'.

He may or may not be. If he is then the Hibs statement is spot on. If he isnt then part of the statement needs tweaked.

Looking at the boy online haven't seen any evidence that he is a Hibs fan. Even if he is then it needs to be remembered that teens in general can be absoluetly brutal at that age, would be no surprise if people he knew stole his phone off him and posted the emojis just to be *****.

Sad whatever happened.

[Centre Hawf]

He may or may not be. If he is then the Hibs statement is spot on. If he isnt then part of the statement needs tweaked.

Looking at the boy online haven't seen any evidence that he is a Hibs fan. Even if he is then it needs to be remembered that teens in general can be absoluetly brutal at that age, would be no surprise if people he knew stole his phone off him and posted the emojis just to be *****.

Sad whatever happened.

What would need tweaked? They've not said it was a Hibs fan?

[gramskiwood]

Lets not be daft and pretend we dont have a problem with racism. Society has a problem with racism, so it would be weird if it didnt infect ALL football clubs. Ive heard disgusting anti black comments 3 times over the years at ER. What’s important is that we continue to call it out as a club. Which we have.

There's a big problem of a racist element in the Hibs support. It's something that we need to address.

[Pretty Boy]

Best form of punishment would be to confront the boy with his own ignorance and idiocy.

Invite him in to meet Youan face to face. Let him see that there is a human being with feelings and emotions behind the social media pictures. Hera first hand what impact his hilarious emojis had and present him with the opportunity to apologise. It might even work better than a ban which could just end up fuelling misplaced bitterness that he is somehow not responsible for his own actions.

[Bostonhibby]

Is the boy a Hibs fan?Who knows, but it would be better for society as a whole if he was identified, outed and had his collar felt by police Scotland and maybe even felt a bit of heat as a result of hiding behind his keyboard as well.



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[SunshineOnLeith]

I honestly never thought we would have a problem with racism in our fanbase, there are always the odd idiot sadly that lets you down but they were usually so few and far between that you could describe it as quite rare to witness.

But I have to say the treatment Elie Youan in particular over the last 10/12 months has been a growing concern to me. I know people won't want to hear it or agree with it but I honestly think the attitude towards Elie on social media has been atrocious to the point where I can only assume now that most of these people have a sub conscious tinge of racism to them even if they don't go as far to say a slur.

And by the way you can file some of the treatment of Rocky under that as well. It's an absolute disgrace to see people treated this way and then have it excused because they're footballers.

Spot on, you only have to look at the criticism the two of them both get, it's absolute dog whistle stuff that black players get attacking their attitude, personality or intelligence rather than anything to do with their actual physical skills and attributes. Elie is selfish, doesn't track back, only playing for himself. Rocky is stupid. Dom Malonga was lazy. Even young Megwa got it after he played against rangers last season. All absolute horse s**t, but so readily accepted in a way it never is with white players.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Best form of punishment would be to confront the boy with his own ignorance and idiocy.

Invite him in to meet Youan face to face. Let him see that there is a human being with feelings and emotions behind the social media pictures. Hera first hand what impact his hilarious emojis had and present him with the opportunity to apologise. It might even work better than a ban which could just end up fuelling misplaced bitterness that he is somehow not responsible for his own actions.

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't think it would be fair to expect Elie to sit down and chat with a racist wee idiot who's been sending him abuse.

[LaMotta]

What would need tweaked? They've not said it was a Hibs fan?

Well Hibs have said they will take strongest possible action against the individual. If they arent a Hibs fan then what action can Hibs take? A ban of any sort wouldnt affect them.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Best form of punishment would be to confront the boy with his own ignorance and idiocy.

Invite him in to meet Youan face to face. Let him see that there is a human being with feelings and emotions behind the social media pictures. Hera first hand what impact his hilarious emojis had and present him with the opportunity to apologise. It might even work better than a ban which could just end up fuelling misplaced bitterness that he is somehow not responsible for his own actions.

You know that's not going to happen sadly.
Abusers on X , WhatsApp, Instagram and whatever other platforms shouldn't be allowed to remain anonymous but they will because that's a whole other can of worms.

[Centre Hawf]

Well Hibs have said they will take strongest possible action against the individual. If they arent a Hibs fan then what action can Hibs take? A ban of any sort wouldnt affect them.

A ban could still be applied to them regardless of what team they support. Besides I imagine this could be a matter escalated to the police that could go beyond just a stadium ban at Easter Road.

[Pretty Boy]

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't think it would be fair to expect Elie to sit down and chat with a racist wee idiot who's been sending him abuse.

Aye obviously it would depend on him being willing and I wouldn't blame him one bit if he wasn't.

I've sat in on a couple of restorative justice meetings in the past and it's quite interesting to observe how much both sides get from them but I get it won't be for everyone.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Spot on, you only have to look at the criticism the two of them both get, it's absolute dog whistle stuff that black players get attacking their attitude, personality or intelligence rather than anything to do with their actual physical skills and attributes. Elie is selfish, doesn't track back, only playing for himself. Rocky is stupid. Dom Malonga was lazy. Even young Megwa got it after he played against rangers last season. All absolute horse s**t, but so readily accepted in a way it never is with white players.

Literally all those things were aimed at Ryan Porteous as a start.

[jakeshibs]

That sort of behaviour should never be tolerated, and if he is from our fan base, he should receive a life ban.

This type of racist toxic behaviour will prevent decent professionals from coming to our club if our own fan base hounds our team. Social media is a cesspit where anyone can say what they want without repercussions. I am angry and embarrassed that a player who represents Hibs has had to be subjected to racism.

[Since90+2]

There's a big problem of a racist element in the Hibs support. It's something that we need to address.

I don't agree there is a "big" problem. We have an active fan base of at a guess around 30,000 and more if you include those who don't attend but would say they are a Hibs fan.

When you are talking about tens of thousands of people in any grouping or setting you will invariably get racists in that number as they are scattered throughout society unfortunately, but I don't believe it makes our fanbase racist.

The boy will likely come to regret his actions as they are totally out of order.

[Kato]

There's a big problem of a racist element in the Hibs support. It's something that we need to address.Are you going to address it? How are you going to get "we" together?

Whatever the guy is who is posting his ignorance online, he's not a Hibs fan. I'd give him a ten year ban, hope he bolts and if he can show over the course of the ten years he's became less ignorant, maybe he's allowed back.

Hibs can't cure the rise of racism in recent years but the policy should be zero tolerance. Good statement from the club too.

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[hibee-boys]

Never mind stadium bans that will be impossible to police. Surely that language falls under hate speech and is a criminal offence?

[LaMotta]

I honestly never thought we would have a problem with racism in our fanbase, there are always the odd idiot sadly that lets you down but they were usually so few and far between that you could describe it as quite rare to witness.

But I have to say the treatment Elie Youan in particular over the last 10/12 months has been a growing concern to me. I know people won't want to hear it or agree with it but I honestly think the attitude towards Elie on social media has been atrocious to the point where I can only assume now that most of these people have a sub conscious tinge of racism to them even if they don't go as far to say a slur.

And by the way you can file some of the treatment of Rocky under that as well. It's an absolute disgrace to see people treated this way and then have it excused because they're footballers.


Spot on, you only have to look at the criticism the two of them both get, it's absolute dog whistle stuff that black players get attacking their attitude, personality or intelligence rather than anything to do with their actual physical skills and attributes. Elie is selfish, doesn't track back, only playing for himself. Rocky is stupid. Dom Malonga was lazy. Even young Megwa got it after he played against rangers last season. All absolute horse s**t, but so readily accepted in a way it never is with white players.


Oh come on. A quick twitter search of player names will tell you Joe Newell is a coward, Boyle is braindead, Levitt is lazy. Don't get me started on Josh Campbell or Paul Hanlon or Harry McKirdy. The abuse most Hibs players take at times is ridiculous. No one has had their character questioned more than Joe Newell in recent times on this forum.

[jakeshibs]

I honestly never thought we would have a problem with racism in our fanbase, there are always the odd idiot sadly that lets you down but they were usually so few and far between that you could describe it as quite rare to witness.

But I have to say the treatment Elie Youan in particular over the last 10/12 months has been a growing concern to me. I know people won't want to hear it or agree with it but I honestly think the attitude towards Elie on social media has been atrocious to the point where I can only assume now that most of these people have a sub conscious tinge of racism to them even if they don't go as far to say a slur.

And by the way you can file some of the treatment of Rocky under that as well. It's an absolute disgrace to see people treated this way and then have it excused because they're footballers.


I sadly have to agree and embarrassed by their actions

[Dmas]

Best form of punishment would be to confront the boy with his own ignorance and idiocy.

Invite him in to meet Youan face to face. Let him see that there is a human being with feelings and emotions behind the social media pictures. Hera first hand what impact his hilarious emojis had and present him with the opportunity to apologise. It might even work better than a ban which could just end up fuelling misplaced bitterness that he is somehow not responsible for his own actions.


stuff like this ends up being a badge of honour IMO, he sends tripe like that to a player next minute he's meeting said player telling all his pals, what he needs is the police, then a police visit to the school he attends a little public embarrassment and a ban from ER until he can prove he has taken measures to learn from his mistakes

[DIXIHIBS]

........how can someone be potentially black?


I'd ban the laddie until he's 21 and have him dragged in by the ear to apologise.

I meant potential signings who are black...not a person who is potentially black.

[Dashing Bob S]

Best form of punishment would be to confront the boy with his own ignorance and idiocy.

Invite him in to meet Youan face to face. Let him see that there is a human being with feelings and emotions behind the social media pictures. Hera first hand what impact his hilarious emojis had and present him with the opportunity to apologise. It might even work better than a ban which could just end up fuelling misplaced bitterness that he is somehow not responsible for his own actions.

Good shout. If he is indeed just an attention-seeking young fool, the way to make him into a hard core Nazi is to witch hunt him out of mainstream society. There will be only dangerous weirdos providing the requisite sympathy.

[Centre Hawf]

Oh come on. A quick twitter search of player names will tell you Joe Newell is a coward, Boyle is braindead, Levitt is lazy. Don't get me started on Josh Campbell or Paul Hanlon or Harry McKirdy. The abuse most Hibs players take at times is ridiculous. No one has had their character questioned more than Joe Newell in recent times on this forum.

I think the abuse Hibs players take in general is ridiculous, the same goes across every other club. Social media has played a heavy role in normalising that in society overall not just in football. But I do think while you’re right to point out the abuse of white players I don’t think it negates my point either that some people (not all) have a much lower threshold to abusing someone like Elie or Rocky. The same way Efe, Bamba, and Dom were before them despite them all at times being one of if not our best players at their respective time at Hibs.

I want to be clear, if you think Rocky isn’t a good player you are not racist for that. This also isn’t to try and say black players should always receive less criticism than their white teammates do for poor performances or mistakes made. But I’m not sure some people on social media can hand on heart say they hold some players to equal standards.

[Since90+2]

Good shout. If he is indeed just an attention-seeking young fool, the way to make him into a hard core Nazi is to witch hunt him out of mainstream society. There will be only dangerous weirdos providing the requisite sympathy.

Not sure the term witch hunt would be correct in this instance.

[LaMotta]

I think the abuse Hibs players take in general is ridiculous, the same goes across every other club. Social media has played a heavy role in normalising that in society overall not just in football. But I do think while you’re right to point out the abuse of white players I don’t think it negates my point either that some people (not all) have a much lower threshold to abusing someone like Elie or Rocky. The same way Efe, Bamba, and Dom were before them despite them all at times being one of if not our best players at their respective time at Hibs.

I want to be clear, if you think Rocky isn’t a good player you are not racist for that. This also isn’t to try and say black players should always receive less criticism than their white teammates do for poor performances or mistakes made. But I’m not sure some people on social media can hand on heart say they hold some players to equal standards.

TBH I would say I don't remember Efe, Bamba or Malonga getting much abuse from the Hibs support. They were all well up the pecking order in terms of fans favourites during their respective different times at ER.

[Centre Hawf]

TBH I would say I don't remember Efe, Bamba or Malonga getting much abuse from the Hibs support. They were all well up the pecking order in terms of fans favourites during their respective different times at ER.

It was a minority for sure. I won’t lie to you and say it was a huge movement in the stands to prove a point. But it was definitely there for each of them.

I remember Bombscare Bamba being a thing for despite his teammates being far far worse for mistakes. Efe got similar, a lot more usually from opposition fans, despite him being one of our most consistent defenders we’ve had in 20 years. Dom also got called lazy by some despite a few others in his team who were just as guilty but got away with it.

I think there’s always been an underlying tone of ignorance to some criticism of these players from certain people. Elie over the last year has had it stinking from keyboard warriors despite routinely being our best player once again and it has been brewing for months on Twitter and Insta.

[LaMotta]

It was a minority for sure. I won’t lie to you and say it was a huge movement in the stands to prove a point. But it was definitely there for each of them.

I remember Bombscare Bamba being a thing for despite his teammates being far far worse for mistakes. Efe got similar, a lot more usually from opposition fans, despite him being one of our most consistent defenders we’ve had in 20 years. Dom also got called lazy by some despite a few others in his team who were just as guilty but got away with it.

I think there’s always been an underlying tone of ignorance to some criticism of these players from certain people. Efe over the last year has had it stinking from keyboard warriors despite routinely being our best player once again and it has been brewing for months on Twitter and Insta.

Assume you mean Ellie here mate? He does tend to post a lot of stories on his Instagram. That's not me suggesting he deserves any abuse, but he's far more active than others on social media so the opportunity is greater. I wouldn't recommend Josh Campbell starts posting insta reels anytime soon.

[Centre Hawf]

Assume you mean Ellie here mate? He does tend to post a lot of stories on his Instagram. That's not me suggesting he deserves any abuse, but he's far more active than others on social media so the opportunity is greater. I wouldn't recommend Josh Campbell starts posting insta reels anytime soon.

Aye autocorrect certainly taking its opportunity mug me off when discussing racism.

I don’t disagree with you that posting more will open you up to opportunities for people to comment, which is usually negative at the moment. But even on Twitter where he isn’t on he gets it tight. The difference for me between Elie and someone likes Josh’s criticism is that one has pretty much been our best player for nearly two years while the other sometimes struggles to pass the length of himself.

[Smartie]

It was a minority for sure. I won’t lie to you and say it was a huge movement in the stands to prove a point. But it was definitely there for each of them.

I remember Bombscare Bamba being a thing for despite his teammates being far far worse for mistakes. Efe got similar, a lot more usually from opposition fans, despite him being one of our most consistent defenders we’ve had in 20 years. Dom also got called lazy by some despite a few others in his team who were just as guilty but got away with it.

I think there’s always been an underlying tone of ignorance to some criticism of these players from certain people. Elie over the last year has had it stinking from keyboard warriors despite routinely being our best player once again and it has been brewing for months on Twitter and Insta.

The Bombscare Bamba thing was a nonsense, but it arrived with Sol.

At Dunfermline, he was a very raw youngster and he picked up that nickname there. By the time he arrived with us he was a very accomplished player and not in the least error prone.

He actually had one bad game at Tannadice at RB which led to the name being mentioned but the truth of the matter was he was incredibly consistent and very good indeed for us both at DM and CH.

I honestly don’t think race comes into it when it comes to this argument. I don’t think stuff like what we’ve seen today is down to anything more than a toxic environment where nasty morons are allowed to thrive in anonymity, chucking filth around in a way that doesn’t get punished anywhere near as often as it should.

[Mcbizz1998]

The Bombscare Bamba thing was a nonsense, but it arrived with Sol.

At Dunfermline, he was a very raw youngster and he picked up that nickname there. By the time he arrived with us he was a very accomplished player and not in the least error prone.

He actually had one bad game at Tannadice at RB which led to the name being mentioned but the truth of the matter was he was incredibly consistent and very good indeed for us both at DM and CH.

I honestly don’t think race comes into it when it comes to this argument. I don’t think stuff like what we’ve seen today is down to anything more than a toxic environment where nasty morons are allowed to thrive in anonymity, chucking filth around in a way that doesn’t get punished anywhere near as often as it should.

Agree, Bamba was class and he showed that by playing at a higher level than Hibs after he left.

He did get sent off in his debut though, I remember thinking oh god what have we signed here.

[hibsbollah]

The earliest Hibernian players will have been subject to similar levels of racism. Just directed at carriers of hods instead of monkeys. Disgusting. The same battles continue through the years.

[TrinityHFC]

The Bombscare Bamba thing was a nonsense, but it arrived with Sol.

At Dunfermline, he was a very raw youngster and he picked up that nickname there. By the time he arrived with us he was a very accomplished player and not in the least error prone.

He actually had one bad game at Tannadice at RB which led to the name being mentioned but the truth of the matter was he was incredibly consistent and very good indeed for us both at DM and CH.

I honestly don’t think race comes into it when it comes to this argument. I don’t think stuff like what we’ve seen today is down to anything more than a toxic environment where nasty morons are allowed to thrive in anonymity, chucking filth around in a way that doesn’t get punished anywhere near as often as it should.

There have been studies that have found that there are certain words or phrases that, even unintentionally, are used more in connection with black athletes. They tend to get more comments about being lazy, thick etc. This goes back to commentary, print etc and I’m sure is only exacerbated online.

[JJP]

Sad way to end Youan's time at the club if he is leaving. Hope whoever is responsible gets what's coming to them.

[FilipinoHibs]

Not sure the term witch hunt would be correct in this instance.

Should it not be Warlocks hunting if we are hounding our male players?

[lyonhibs]

Spot on, you only have to look at the criticism the two of them both get, it's absolute dog whistle stuff that black players get attacking their attitude, personality or intelligence rather than anything to do with their actual physical skills and attributes. Elie is selfish, doesn't track back, only playing for himself. Rocky is stupid. Dom Malonga was lazy. Even young Megwa got it after he played against rangers last season. All absolute horse s**t, but so readily accepted in a way it never is with white players.

Hibs fans are admirably even handed when it comes to dishing out abuse about character and effort. Any number of white players have been called all those things or variants thereof in the last year alone. Take off the tin foil hat.

[B.H.F.C]

Hibs fans are admirably even handed when it comes to dishing out abuse about character and effort. Any number of white players have been called all those things or variants thereof in the last year alone. Take off the tin foil hat.

Never mind in the last year. The last fortnight will suffice!

[hibsbollah]

Hibs fans are admirably even handed when it comes to dishing out abuse about character and effort. Any number of white players have been called all those things or variants thereof in the last year alone. Take off the tin foil hat.

It’s surprising how many clearly intelligent posters seem happy to buy the line that because a random white player gets abused by his own fans, that therefore means that claims of race based prejudice based on tropes about black players’ laziness and stupidity, which have clearly been apparent since the 70s and probably way before then, can’t exist. Its totally illogical.

[Lester B]

It’s surprising how many clearly intelligent posters seem happy to buy the line that because a random white player gets abused by his own fans, that therefore means that claims of race based prejudice based on tropes about black players’ laziness and stupidity, which have clearly been apparent since the 70s and probably way before then, can’t exist. Its totally illogical.

Agree totally. Some players have been abused because of perceived flaws. The abuse Youan has got in this case is because he's a black man; simple as that. No tin foil hat here at all and bizarre of that poster to suggest it.

[Jock O]

It’s surprising how many clearly intelligent posters seem happy to buy the line that because a random white player gets abused by his own fans, that therefore means that claims of race based prejudice based on tropes about black players’ laziness and stupidity, which have clearly been apparent since the 70s and probably way before then, can’t exist. Its totally illogical.

My understanding is there there is academic research proving this too, but lots of people won't for some reason take it on. And not just in sports, in media representation too.

I stumbled on am Instagram thread today about this, and the comments were incredulous, lots of people saying he needs to man up or grow a set of balls, and off course a fair few saying he asks for the abuse by his presence on there. Its completely bonkers. None being particularly racist but most of them bullying someone because he had highlighted suffering racist abuse with no whiff of hypocrisy in their mind. I think these people should also be pulled up.

Social media is getting worse rather than better, even on here the language I think has changed, and the attitude towards the players can be unacceptable at times, in my opinion, although thankfully completely sanitised compared to other mediums, However doesn't mean we can't be more thoughtful and consider the impact. The machismo image and stance in Scotland generally, but also specifically in sports, has cost lives. I appreciate that's incredibly dramatic, and in reality thankfully not that common, but its a fact. We should all be very considerate as to how what we say impacts others.

There have been at least two reasonably high profile players down South talking about this recently, and off course the guy recently leaving Rangers citing the abuse as an influence on him leaving, people keep saying it shouldn't matter to professionals, but it does, on a human level we often have no idea how much it impacts even the most confident human beings.

[LaMotta]

It’s surprising how many clearly intelligent posters seem happy to buy the line that because a random white player gets abused by his own fans, that therefore means that claims of race based prejudice based on tropes about black players’ laziness and stupidity, which have clearly been apparent since the 70s and probably way before then, can’t exist. Its totally illogical.

So Dom Malonga being labelled lazy on occasion by some is because of his skin colour but Dylan Levitt being labelled lazy by some is because he is just lazy? Why was Marvin Bartley never called lazy?


Agree totally. Some players have been abused because of perceived flaws. The abuse Youan has got in this case is because he's a black man; simple as that. No tin foil hat here at all and bizarre of that poster to suggest it.

The poster never suggested the message Youan got today wasn't racist.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I sadly have to agree and embarrassed by their actions


can we not do something as Hibs.net offer our condemnation and support of the undersigned?

[truehibernian]

Not on Instagram or any social media thankfully- have fans posted any show of support for Ellie in response and have they reported it to the Police and Club ? Does KP report any alleged incidents of racist abuse towards players on social media to the Club to see if this idiot is on the club database ? Loads of ex Polis on the club staff too, you’d like to think they’re made aware to provide support to the players and forward to Police Scotland.

[LaMotta]

Not on Instagram or any social media thankfully- have fans posted any show of support for Ellie in response and have they reported it to the Police and Club ? Does KP report any alleged incidents of racist abuse towards players on social media to the Club to see if this idiot is on the club database ? Loads of ex Polis on the club staff too, you’d like to think they’re made aware to provide support to the players and forward to Police Scotland.

Well, apart from Hibs.net.:wink:

[truehibernian]

Well, apart from Hibs.net.:wink:

True, mind if I start posting what I’m having for dinner, my relationship status, and ridiculous pouting selfies then I’ll class .net as social media 👍😊

[LaMotta]

True, mind if I start posting what I’m having for dinner, my relationship status, and ridiculous pouting selfies then I’ll class .net as social media 👍😊

:greengrin

[gramskiwood]

I don't agree there is a "big" problem. We have an active fan base of at a guess around 30,000 and more if you include those who don't attend but would say they are a Hibs fan.

When you are talking about tens of thousands of people in any grouping or setting you will invariably get racists in that number as they are scattered throughout society unfortunately, but I don't believe it makes our fanbase racist.

The boy will likely come to regret his actions as they are totally out of order.

I wasn't saying our fanbase is racist but there is a problem.

[hibsbollah]

So Dom Malonga being labelled lazy on occasion by some is because of his skin colour but Dylan Levitt being labelled lazy by some is because he is just lazy? Why was Marvin Bartley never called lazy?



The poster never suggested the message Youan got today wasn't racist.

You’re making my argument for me. You’re making the logical fallacy i just complained about in my original post, ie- Marvin was never called lazy, so therefore it can’t be right that Youan’s critics are motivated by racist tropes. And disregarding the whole monkey thing which suggests something more than simple dislike is at play here.

[Centre Hawf]

My understanding is there there is academic research proving this too, but lots of people won't for some reason take it on. And not just in sports, in media representation too.

I stumbled on am Instagram thread today about this, and the comments were incredulous, lots of people saying he needs to man up or grow a set of balls, and off course a fair few saying he asks for the abuse by his presence on there. Its completely bonkers. None being particularly racist but most of them bullying someone because he had highlighted suffering racist abuse with no whiff of hypocrisy in their mind. I think these people should also be pulled up.

Social media is getting worse rather than better, even on here the language I think has changed, and the attitude towards the players can be unacceptable at times, in my opinion, although thankfully completely sanitised compared to other mediums, However doesn't mean we can't be more thoughtful and consider the impact. The machismo image and stance in Scotland generally, but also specifically in sports, has cost lives. I appreciate that's incredibly dramatic, and in reality thankfully not that common, but its a fact. We should all be very considerate as to how what we say impacts others.

There have been at least two reasonably high profile players down South talking about this recently, and off course the guy recently leaving Rangers citing the abuse as an influence on him leaving, people keep saying it shouldn't matter to professionals, but it does, on a human level we often have no idea how much it impacts even the most confident human beings.

An example of how the prejudices can seep into sport is the history of white vs black Quarterbacks. There is a lot of research done on it as well and one of the many things mentioned in it is that for years it wasn’t seen as a position coaches wanted to give to a black player due to perceptions on intelligence. Preferring to relegate them to physical roles such as running back.

Then when they did begin to make that change to the position the language used by broadcasters or analysts still referred to their athletic prowess but lack of intelligence in the role, over a white quarterback counterpart tended to have the opposite.

As I say a lot of research papers look into it better than can be summed up on a Hibs forum so I would recommend anyone who is interested to have a look at them.

[Since90+2]

I wasn't saying our fanbase is racist but there is a problem.

I don't believe there is a problem with racism in the Hibs support. There is a problem with racism within parts society that Hibs fans form a part of.

There are clubs in parts of Europe that definitely have a problem with racism shown by some of the chants and banners shown at games. There is a problem with sectarianism in Scotland at a club where sectarian songs are regularly sung.

The Hibs support, IMO atleast, does not have more of a problem with racism than the majority of other clubs in Scotland. That isn't to say there aren't racists in the Hibs support, but that is because they exist throughout all sections of society.

[Cooshed Kid]

You’re making my argument for me. You’re making the logical fallacy i just complained about in my original post, ie- Marvin was never called lazy, so therefore it can’t be right that Youan’s critics are motivated by racist tropes. And disregarding the whole monkey thing which suggests something more than simple dislike is at play here.

With respect, he's not making the logical fallacy you claim at all. LaMotta makes a valid point about claims of "laziness" not necessarily being race-related based on what he has witnessed with regard to 3 players - and then you seize upon that to say he is suggesting that Youan's critics are not motivated by racist tropes. Now, that's a bit of a leap of logic, professor. He said nothing from which you can draw that conclusion.

Some eejit posted something offensive and unacceptable about a black player, who also happens to be our player but that's not the important point, and action needs to be taken. All we can do as individuals is call it out when we see or hear it and not just when it's directed at one of our own. Isn't the entire police force dedicated to hate crimes now? Call it in as and when it happens.

I don't think I have ever referred to a Hibs player as lazy. I have thought many were not as good as I wished but I never thought of describing them as lazy. If I ever do, I won't be held back by fear of being judged a racist if the player is black, while risking no such opprobrium if the player is white or Asian. My adjectives are equal opportunity, equitable adjectives because I judge players by my assessment of their performance and off-pitch behaviour and not their skin colour. But maybe I'm just being lazy. Maybe I ought to work hard to eliminate certain adjectives when referring to certain people and police my thoughts and comments appropriately. Where do we get the list from? Or maybe I'll just stick to treating everyone equally.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It’s surprising how many clearly intelligent posters seem happy to buy the line that because a random white player gets abused by his own fans, that therefore means that claims of race based prejudice based on tropes about black players’ laziness and stupidity, which have clearly been apparent since the 70s and probably way before then, can’t exist. Its totally illogical.

The post in question suggested it never happens to white players. That much is blatantly wrong.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Isn't it sad that nearly every season we have an incident like this?

This is far from a one off which tells me that society is still a long way off where it should be.

[Cooshed Kid]

Isn't it sad that nearly every season we have an incident like this?

This is far from a one off which tells me that society is still a long way off where it should be.

You're right, but that's where X provides a valuable service. It allows the eejits to expose themselves. Sunshine is the best disinfectant, not darkness. The more they express themselves, the more even their mates think "Man, WTF were you thinking?" and distance themselves. That's the way forward and like all journeys, it proceeds step by step.

[Cooshed Kid]

Of course, everyone is innocent until proven guilty so if the guy's phone was stolen or someone else posted something under his name then "the eejit" is not necessarily the account-holder. Let's leave that to Mr Plod.

[WellingtonHibby]

Of course, everyone is innocent until proven guilty so if the guy's phone was stolen or someone else posted something under his name then "the eejit" is not necessarily the account-holder. Let's leave that to Mr Plod.

So far into the realm of unlikely.

Had his phone nicked, unlocked and used to racially abuse someone?

Aye. Sure pal

[Paulie Walnuts]

So far into the realm of unlikely.

Had his phone nicked, unlocked and used to racially abuse someone?

Aye. Sure pal

Did Kenneh not claim something along those lines a couple of years ago?

His phone was in his pocket and started liking tweets from hearts about beating us or something :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

You're right, but that's where X provides a valuable service. It allows the eejits to expose themselves. Sunshine is the best disinfectant, not darkness. The more they express themselves, the more even their mates think "Man, WTF were you thinking?" and distance themselves. That's the way forward and like all journeys, it proceeds step by step.

Only as long as there are consequences which doesn’t appear to happen with platforms like that especially when their owner openly comes out with similar and allows a mouthpiece for morons like Trump Lennon etc

[Cooshed Kid]

Only as long as there are consequences which doesn’t appear to happen with platforms like that especially when their owner openly comes out with similar and allows a mouthpiece for morons like Trump Lennon etc

It's called freedom of speech. You'll miss it when it's not there. It allows people to determine for themselves whether others are morons. If you prefer to be told what to think that's your prerogative. Just watch the BBC.

[LaMotta]

You’re making my argument for me. You’re making the logical fallacy i just complained about in my original post, ie- Marvin was never called lazy, so therefore it can’t be right that Youan’s critics are motivated by racist tropes. And disregarding the whole monkey thing which suggests something more than simple dislike is at play here.

Nobody not me, nor anyone else has claimed that racist tropes cannot exist - that's a fallacy you have created.

I completely disagree however with any assertion (as was being suggested) that for eg Dom Malonga was only being called lazy because of his skin colour. The logic for that is in my previous post. I also disagree that any criticism of Youan must be down to his race.

The monkey messages were an extremely sad event, I've said that already.

[LaMotta]

With respect, he's not making the logical fallacy you claim at all. LaMotta makes a valid point about claims of "laziness" not necessarily being race-related based on what he has witnessed with regard to 3 players - and then you seize upon that to say he is suggesting that Youan's critics are not motivated by racist tropes. Now, that's a bit of a leap of logic, professor. He said nothing from which you can draw that conclusion.

Some eejit posted something offensive and unacceptable about a black player, who also happens to be our player but that's not the important point, and action needs to be taken. All we can do as individuals is call it out when we see or hear it and not just when it's directed at one of our own. Isn't the entire police force dedicated to hate crimes now? Call it in as and when it happens.

I don't think I have ever referred to a Hibs player as lazy. I have thought many were not as good as I wished but I never thought of describing them as lazy. If I ever do, I won't be held back by fear of being judged a racist if the player is black, while risking no such opprobrium if the player is white or Asian. My adjectives are equal opportunity, equitable adjectives because I judge players by my assessment of their performance and off-pitch behaviour and not their skin colour. But maybe I'm just being lazy. Maybe I ought to work hard to eliminate certain adjectives when referring to certain people and police my thoughts and comments appropriately. Where do we get the list from? Or maybe I'll just stick to treating everyone equally.

Great post :agree:

[LaMotta]

So far into the realm of unlikely.

Had his phone nicked, unlocked and used to racially abuse someone?

Aye. Sure pal

You are being naive if you dont think that type of incident is far into the realm of unlikely. High school bullies are brutal, it would be easy for them to do what is being suggested to make someone look bad.

Someone on twitter who knows the boy has actually said his phone was stolen during school and the incident has been reported to the Police. It could be made up but I wouldnt rule it out being true either.

[TrinityHFC]

With respect, he's not making the logical fallacy you claim at all. LaMotta makes a valid point about claims of "laziness" not necessarily being race-related based on what he has witnessed with regard to 3 players - and then you seize upon that to say he is suggesting that Youan's critics are not motivated by racist tropes. Now, that's a bit of a leap of logic, professor. He said nothing from which you can draw that conclusion.

Some eejit posted something offensive and unacceptable about a black player, who also happens to be our player but that's not the important point, and action needs to be taken. All we can do as individuals is call it out when we see or hear it and not just when it's directed at one of our own. Isn't the entire police force dedicated to hate crimes now? Call it in as and when it happens.

I don't think I have ever referred to a Hibs player as lazy. I have thought many were not as good as I wished but I never thought of describing them as lazy. If I ever do, I won't be held back by fear of being judged a racist if the player is black, while risking no such opprobrium if the player is white or Asian. My adjectives are equal opportunity, equitable adjectives because I judge players by my assessment of their performance and off-pitch behaviour and not their skin colour. But maybe I'm just being lazy. Maybe I ought to work hard to eliminate certain adjectives when referring to certain people and police my thoughts and comments appropriately. Where do we get the list from? Or maybe I'll just stick to treating everyone equally.

No one is saying those terms are always used in that way but studies have shown that over time there are phrases and descriptions that more often would be attributed to black athletes. Not always consciously.

Not all the time but on average if you were to take a white player and a black player and see the pattern of what was said about them, if they had similar traits, then certain words would be more prevalent towards the black player. The white player might for example be described as not working hard enough or not being defensively aware whereas the black player would on average get the more direct terms like lazy or braindead applied to them.

[hibsbollah]

I don't believe there is a problem with racism in the Hibs support. There is a problem with racism within parts society that Hibs fans form a part of.

There are clubs in parts of Europe that definitely have a problem with racism shown by some of the chants and banners shown at games. There is a problem with sectarianism in Scotland at a club where sectarian songs are regularly sung.

The Hibs support, IMO atleast, does not have more of a problem with racism than the majority of other clubs in Scotland. That isn't to say there aren't racists in the Hibs support, but that is because they exist throughout all sections of society.

I agree with this.

[ian cruise]

It's called freedom of speech. You'll miss it when it's not there. It allows people to determine for themselves whether others are morons. If you prefer to be told what to think that's your prerogative. Just watch the BBC.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Sure people can use these platforms to spread racism but it's an offence and they should be held to account for it when that line is crossed. We've let too many well known faces get away with spreading hate over the last number of years that it's become normalised and more and more young children are repeating it without understanding what they really are saying, which leads to 14 year old laddies racially abusing football players in Instagram.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Let’s get behind our players showing a bit of support in these times.

https://x.com/bushirirocky/status/1829205847056232950?s=46&t=6YwDDk-ojl1NPM7Fi7qeCw

[DIXIHIBS]

You are being naive if you dont think that type of incident is far into the realm of unlikely. High school bullies are brutal, it would be easy for them to do what is being suggested to make someone look bad.

Someone on twitter who knows the boy has actually said his phone was stolen during school and the incident has been reported to the Police. It could be made up but I wouldnt rule it out being true either.

It happens a lot. My old workplace had quite a few young lads and they were constantly taking each others phones and sending dodgy texts, making fake profiles etc. Causes a lot of bother for (sometimes) innocent people.

[Cooshed Kid]

No one is saying those terms are always used in that way but studies have shown that over time there are phrases and descriptions that more often would be attributed to black athletes. Not always consciously.

Not all the time but on average if you were to take a white player and a black player and see the pattern of what was said about them, if they had similar traits, then certain words would be more prevalent towards the black player. The white player might for example be described as not working hard enough or not being defensively aware whereas the black player would on average get the more direct terms like lazy or braindead applied to them.

Not disagreeing with you, but this is a journey. Transformations don't happen overnight. Martin Luther King said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character." He would've been appalled by the idea that the colour of his children's skin would determine what respectable adjectives could or could not be used by other races to describe them. That is the very definition of racism. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and many of the paving stones are laid by sociologists.

Morgan Freeman was asked in an interview with Mike Wallace 15 years or so ago how to stop racism. His answer? Stop talking about it. "I'm going to stop calling you a white man. And I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man." No special favours required, no ordinary-usage adjectives disallowed, just respectful behaviour of one human being to another.

What could be better?

Now let's focus on the countdown to the close of the window.

[hibsbollah]

With respect, he's not making the logical fallacy you claim at all. LaMotta makes a valid point about claims of "laziness" not necessarily being race-related based on what he has witnessed with regard to 3 players - and then you seize upon that to say he is suggesting that Youan's critics are not motivated by racist tropes. Now, that's a bit of a leap of logic, professor. He said nothing from which you can draw that conclusion.

Some eejit posted something offensive and unacceptable about a black player, who also happens to be our player but that's not the important point, and action needs to be taken. All we can do as individuals is call it out when we see or hear it and not just when it's directed at one of our own. Isn't the entire police force dedicated to hate crimes now? Call it in as and when it happens.

I don't think I have ever referred to a Hibs player as lazy. I have thought many were not as good as I wished but I never thought of describing them as lazy. If I ever do, I won't be held back by fear of being judged a racist if the player is black, while risking no such opprobrium if the player is white or Asian. My adjectives are equal opportunity, equitable adjectives because I judge players by my assessment of their performance and off-pitch behaviour and not their skin colour. But maybe I'm just being lazy. Maybe I ought to work hard to eliminate certain adjectives when referring to certain people and police my thoughts and comments appropriately. Where do we get the list from? Or maybe I'll just stick to treating everyone equally.

I pointed out initially that because one white player is criticised/abused/call it what you will, it does not automatically follow that race is NOT a factor when a black player is abused. That would mean that any racism could always be explained away by the spurious claim that 'white players get abused too'. It's a dangerous precedent to make that argument and i'm about sick of reading it on here, frankly.
LaMotta responded by rhetorically asking me why wasn't Marvin getting the same treatment then? That seemed to me as illogical and making the same mistake as I was drawing attention to. It's irrelevant why Marvin didn't get abuse or why Newell does. Sometimes race is a factor and sometimes it isn't.
I'm not particularly interested in going into any posters motivations, or whether someone is 'racist' or not. My contention is is that some of our players appear to be getting a harder time than other players do, irrespective of how badly they've played, and the reason they are targeted seem to be the same reason as was mentioned by another poster in relation to black tropes, when lazy, boneheaded etc gets overused. Paul Pogba was the most intelligent passer of the ball in the world for a period a few years back, but all you ever heard was how 'athletic' 'powerful' and a 'physical specimen' he was. When Pirlo did it it was always about intelligence. More often than these biases are subconscious. You're 'allowed' to call a black player lazy, of course you are, its not my position to judge and its defeating to try to do so, no-one knows the content of someone else's heart or what their intention is. But when it's a pattern and you read and hear things over a period of time, it becomes clear stereotyping is at play. At least it is clear to me. You might have a different view, thats OK.

Your post was going fine until your unnecessary snarky 'professor' comment. I appear to have annoyed you.

[hibsbollah]

Not disagreeing with you, but this is a journey. Transformations don't happen overnight. Martin Luther King said "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character." He would've been appalled by the idea that the colour of his children's skin would determine what respectable adjectives could or could not be used by other races to describe them. That is the very definition of racism. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and many of the paving stones are laid by sociologists.

Morgan Freeman was asked in an interview with Mike Wallace 15 years or so ago how to stop racism. His answer? Stop talking about it. "I'm going to stop calling you a white man. And I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man." No special favours required, no ordinary-usage adjectives disallowed, just respectful behaviour of one human being to another.

What could be better?

Now let's focus on the countdown to the close of the window.

Are you trying to say you know MLK would be appalled by that? I mean, he's been dead for 55 years so its fairly difficult to prove either way but I think you're way off by what you think he would be appalled by. On your last point, one of our players, Elie Youan, has just been called a monkey but one of our (apparent) supporters, so you suggesting we stop talking about that and focus on other stuff, when the name of this thread is 'Elie Youan', is a bit weird.

[Cooshed Kid]

I pointed out initially that because one white player is criticised/abused/call it what you will, it does not automatically follow that race is NOT a factor when a black player is abused. That would mean that any racism could always be explained away by the spurious claim that 'white players get abused too'. It's a dangerous precedent to make that argument and i'm about sick of reading it on here, frankly.
LaMotta responded by rhetorically asking me why wasn't Marvin getting the same treatment then? That seemed to me as illogical and making the same mistake as I was drawing attention to. It's irrelevant why Marvin didn't get abuse or why Newell does. Sometimes race is a factor and sometimes it isn't.
I'm not particularly interested in going into any posters motivations, or whether someone is 'racist' or not. My contention is is that some of our players appear to be getting a harder time than other players do, irrespective of how badly they've played, and the reason they are targeted seem to be the same reason as was mentioned by another poster in relation to black tropes, when lazy, boneheaded etc gets overused. Paul Pogba was the most intelligent passer of the ball in the world for a period a few years back, but all you ever heard was how 'athletic' 'powerful' and a 'physical specimen' he was. When Pirlo did it it was always about intelligence. More often than these biases are subconscious. You're 'allowed' to call a black player lazy, of course you are, its not my position to judge and its defeating to try to do so, no-one knows the content of someone else's heart or what their intention is. But when it's a pattern and you read and hear things over a period of time, it becomes clear stereotyping is at play. At least it is clear to me. You might have a different view, thats OK.

Your post was going fine until your unnecessary snarky 'professor' comment. I appear to have annoyed you.

Sorry, it was your logical fallacy comment followed by what I saw as the non sequitur. No harm done, I hope.

[hibsbollah]

Sorry, it was your logical fallacy comment followed by what I saw as the non sequitur. No harm done, I hope.

Yes, I'm absolutely raging:greengrin It's fine, nice to have a civilised exchange of different opinions on the internet. An increasingly rare thing.

[Cooshed Kid]

Are you trying to say you know MLK would be appalled by that? I mean, he's been dead for 55 years so its fairly difficult to prove either way but I think you're way off by what you think he would be appalled by. On your last point, one of our players, Elie Youan, has just been called a monkey but one of our (apparent) supporters, so you suggesting we stop talking about that and focus on other stuff, when the name of this thread is 'Elie Youan', is a bit weird.

Wow, way to distort and misinterpret what I said. That was not my sole post and I think i have been very clear in condemning what has taken place and saying that this is quite properly a matter for the constabulary as there has very clearly been a breach of the law by someone. I listen to the views of people whom I think are wise and that includes the two gentlemen I quoted. None of that suggested that we should just pretend Elie had not been vilely abused. My MLK point was largely related to the "lazy" debate which went before and I think even the enlightened Morgan Freeman (after whom I named my son because of the characters of unsurpassed dignity he largely portrayed on screen) would not be able to raise a smile at monkey emojis aimed at a black man. AND NOR DO I. I'll leave this thread now and just allow other readers, with the benefit of all the posts, to draw their own conclusions.

[Cooshed Kid]

And then I see your next post and think yes, let's keep it cordial. Maybe we have more in common than my last post suggested.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Sure people can use these platforms to spread racism but it's an offence and they should be held to account for it when that line is crossed. We've let too many well known faces get away with spreading hate over the last number of years that it's become normalised and more and more young children are repeating it without understanding what they really are saying, which leads to 14 year old laddies racially abusing football players in Instagram.

yeah the public figures typically in the US but also in Brazil using the freedom os speech (in the US it’s in the constitution) to hide behind an interpretation to excuse hate/ inflammatory / inciteful language are mistaken. It’s not withiut consequence. Unfortunate for some the consequences are either non-exostent or have it unravelled yet.

[gramskiwood]

I don't believe there is a problem with racism in the Hibs support. There is a problem with racism within parts society that Hibs fans form a part of.

There are clubs in parts of Europe that definitely have a problem with racism shown by some of the chants and banners shown at games. There is a problem with sectarianism in Scotland at a club where sectarian songs are regularly sung.

The Hibs support, IMO atleast, does not have more of a problem with racism than the majority of other clubs in Scotland. That isn't to say there aren't racists in the Hibs support, but that is because they exist throughout all sections of society.

I have a friend who's stopped going to the Hibs Club because of the level of racism there. It's definitely a problem amongst our support.

[Stokesy's on fire]

I have a friend who's stopped going to the Hibs Club because of the level of racism there. It's definitely a problem amongst our support.

100% we def have a problem within our support. It's every season we have issues like this the good thing is the club doesn't stand for it.

[gramskiwood]

100% we def have a problem within our support. It's every season we have issues like this the good thing is the club doesn't stand for it.

Aye, the club has a good position on this. It's up to supporters to root this out.

[LaMotta]

I pointed out initially that because one white player is criticised/abused/call it what you will, it does not automatically follow that race is NOT a factor when a black player is abused. That would mean that any racism could always be explained away by the spurious claim that 'white players get abused too'. It's a dangerous precedent to make that argument and i'm about sick of reading it on here, frankly.
LaMotta responded by rhetorically asking me why wasn't Marvin getting the same treatment then? That seemed to me as illogical and making the same mistake as I was drawing attention to. It's irrelevant why Marvin didn't get abuse or why Newell does. Sometimes race is a factor and sometimes it isn't.
I'm not particularly interested in going into any posters motivations, or whether someone is 'racist' or not. My contention is is that some of our players appear to be getting a harder time than other players do, irrespective of how badly they've played, and the reason they are targeted seem to be the same reason as was mentioned by another poster in relation to black tropes, when lazy, boneheaded etc gets overused. Paul Pogba was the most intelligent passer of the ball in the world for a period a few years back, but all you ever heard was how 'athletic' 'powerful' and a 'physical specimen' he was. When Pirlo did it it was always about intelligence. More often than these biases are subconscious. You're 'allowed' to call a black player lazy, of course you are, its not my position to judge and its defeating to try to do so, no-one knows the content of someone else's heart or what their intention is. But when it's a pattern and you read and hear things over a period of time, it becomes clear stereotyping is at play. At least it is clear to me. You might have a different view, thats OK.

Your post was going fine until your unnecessary snarky 'professor' comment. I appear to have annoyed you.

You originally said:

It's surprising how many clearly intelligent posters seem happy to buy the line that because a random white player gets abused by his own fans, that therefore means that claims of race based prejudice based on tropes about black players’ laziness and stupidity, which have clearly been apparent since the 70s and probably way before then, can’t exist.

But the post you responded to from Lyonhibs didn't claim racist tropes couldn't exist, nor has anyone else claimed that. It was responding to a specific claim from a different poster that made out criticism of Ellie, Malonga and Rocky from Hibs fans were merely racist tropes.

Lyonhibs clearly disagrees with that as I do - the addition of the Marvin Bartley example where he wasn't criticised, alongside previous examples of white players receiving the same criticism as the other black players mentioned, suggests that such criticisms from Hibs fans were character/attribute based rather than race based.

[DIXIHIBS]

I have a friend who's stopped going to the Hibs Club because of the level of racism there. It's definitely a problem amongst our support.

I'm calling 100% BS on that. I've been going g to the club for over 40 years and I'm sure there's the odd comment (unacceptable) like in every pub,club,workplace...but to say they is a high level of racism is crap. Your welcome to PM with any details to contradict that.

[DIXIHIBS]

I have a friend who's stopped going to the Hibs Club because of the level of racism there. It's definitely a problem amongst our support.

PS I'm assuming your friend complained to the club council about the racism as I'm sure they would be interested to hear about it.

[SteveHFC]

Hibernian FC can confirm that an individual has been identified and charged by Police Scotland in connection to the racist abuse Elie Youan received on social media.

[we are hibs]

Hibernian FC can confirm that an individual has been identified and charged by Police Scotland in connection to the racist abuse Elie Youan received on social media.Also confirmed it was someone else on the boys account.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Looks like the boys phone was taken at school and whoever took it posted the messages under his name. Boy 15 arrested, he's going to get a rude awakening for his prank

[Donegal Hibby]

No sympathy for him what so ever….

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-ban-schoolboy-fan-charged-with-racial-abuse-of-top-star-4763363

[dp00]

Also confirmed it was someone else on the boys account.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Feel like that’s hidden in the statement … boys name has been everywhere and he isn’t guilty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LaMotta]

So far into the realm of unlikely.

Had his phone nicked, unlocked and used to racially abuse someone?

Aye. Sure pal


Feel like that’s hidden in the statement … boys name has been everywhere and he isn’t guilty


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So as I said earlier Hibs statement was not quite right, given it insinuated a Hibs fan was to blame. Also a poor boy who is clearly already getting a hard time has had his face mistakenly posted all over social media for being a racist. And Hibs with that well intentioned but naive statement have helped perpetuate a myth that we have an inherently racist suppport (which many of our fans on here have been quick to endorse).

Ultimately this isn't just a racism issue, but a bullying issue.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If anything positive has come from today, it’s that a genuinely good player has remained at the club.

[Unseen work]

If anything positive has come from today, it’s that a genuinely good player has remained at the club.

Yep, our best player imo

Think we’ve missed him massively and SDG will suit him much better than Monty ball

[Exuberance1875]

Huge positive that he stayed in this window. Our best player

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Also confirmed it was someone else on the boys account.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

I don’t see that in the article ?where iwaa that confirmed?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

So as I said earlier Hibs statement was not quite right, given it insinuated a Hibs fan was to blame. Also a poor boy who is clearly already getting a hard time has had his face mistakenly posted all over social media for being a racist. And Hibs with that well intentioned but naive statement have helped perpetuate a myth that we have an inherently racist suppport (which many of our fans on here have been quick to endorse).

Ultimately this isn't a racism issue, but a bullying issue.

where is this coming to light? Presumably getting arrested and not released without charge means either he’s still being questioned or there’s substance to the allegations?

edit:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/hibernian-fc-say-teen-charged-33571988

explains further.

“The Edinburgh club say following a probe by Police Scotland, a 15-year-old boy has been charged. In a statement posted on Friday August 30, they added the message was sent from someone who was not the owner of the account”

"Police Scotland conducted a full investigation into the message sent to Youan and discovered that the person responsible for the message was not the owner of the ac (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ex-cop-undercover-scots-football-33489676)

…

[neil7908]

Huge positive that he stayed in this window. Our best player

He can be our best player... But he has to show much more. Needs to work harder, be more consistent, support on defensive duties and find team mates with a pass rather than beat an extra man.

I've been a huge fan of his but the more I see of him the less I'm convinced. The abuse of him is appalling and I can understand it getting to his head but the best way to get back at these brainless idiots is to shine on the pitch.

[hibsbollah]

So as I said earlier Hibs statement was not quite right, given it insinuated a Hibs fan was to blame. Also a poor boy who is clearly already getting a hard time has had his face mistakenly posted all over social media for being a racist. And Hibs with that well intentioned but naive statement have helped perpetuate a myth that we have an inherently racist suppport (which many of our fans on here have been quick to endorse).

Ultimately this isn't a racism issue, but a bullying issue.

From Youan’s perspective, and from the perspective of anyone being called ‘a monkey’, yes, it IS very much a racism issue not a bullying issue and is ridiculous to say otherwise.

[lyonhibs]

So as I said earlier Hibs statement was not quite right, given it insinuated a Hibs fan was to blame. Also a poor boy who is clearly already getting a hard time has had his face mistakenly posted all over social media for being a racist. And Hibs with that well intentioned but naive statement have helped perpetuate a myth that we have an inherently racist suppport (which many of our fans on here have been quick to endorse).

Ultimately this isn't a racism issue, but a bullying issue.

Could you perhaps expand on how being called a monkey isn't a racism issue??

[LaMotta]

where is this coming to light? Presumably getting arrested and not released without charge means either he’s still being questioned or there’s substance to the allegations?

edit:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/hibernian-fc-say-teen-charged-33571988

explains further.

“The Edinburgh club say following a probe by Police Scotland, a 15-year-old boy has been charged. In a statement posted on Friday August 30, they added the message was sent from someone who was not the owner of the account”

"Police Scotland conducted a full investigation into the message sent to Youan and discovered that the person responsible for the message was not the owner of the ac (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ex-cop-undercover-scots-football-33489676)

…

The boy that posted it wasnt the owner of the instagram account. Phone stolen and then message sent by someone else.

[LaMotta]

From Youan’s perspective, and from the perspective of anyone being called ‘a monkey’, yes, it IS very much a racism issue not a bullying issue and is ridiculous to say otherwise.


Could you perhaps expand on how being called a monkey isn't a racism issue??

Apologies I worded that really badly. What I'm saying is that the primary purpose of the message was bullying related to make the wee boy look bad.

[Smartie]

On a separate note re Elie - David Gray now has a massive challenge / opportunity.

There's no doubt that on his day, Youan is one of our best players and arguably one of the best players outside Celtic. He also hasn't got enough out of his undoubted ability in his career.

He's made it plain that he wanted away and he didn't get his move. His chances of getting a move will not improve unless he starts putting in a level and consistency of performance worthy of earning it.

Will Gray manage to get him to realise this? Could we get a blistering 4-5 months out of the player as he plays his best stuff to earn his move a la immediately pre-Millwall Kevin Nisbet?

Or does he mope, huff and lose what is starting to look like a fairly critical period of his career?

[hibsbollah]

Apologies I worded that really badly. What I'm saying is that the primary purpose of the message was bullying related to make the wee boy look bad.

:aok:

[hibsbollah]

On a separate note re Elie - David Gray now has a massive challenge / opportunity.

There's no doubt that on his day, Youan is one of our best players and arguably one of the best players outside Celtic. He also hasn't got enough out of his undoubted ability in his career.

He's made it plain that he wanted away and he didn't get his move. His chances of getting a move will not improve unless he starts putting in a level and consistency of performance worthy of earning it.

Will Gray manage to get him to realise this? Could we get a blistering 4-5 months out of the player as he plays his best stuff to earn his move a la immediately pre-Millwall Kevin Nisbet?

Or does he mope, huff and lose what is starting to look like a fairly critical period of his career?

Very good point. When asked, Gray was pretty positive about Elie’s recent attitude and mentioned how much gym work hes been putting in while injured. It could be he bursts back on the scene like we know he has the ability to do in the biggest games. That double in the derby is evidence to that.

[LaMotta]

Very good point. When asked, Gray was pretty positive about Elie’s recent attitude and mentioned how much gym work hes been putting in while injured. It could be he bursts back on the scene like we know he has the ability to do in the biggest games. That double in the derby is evidence to that.

Can't believe he is still here but I'm delighted. Reckon Gray could get more out of him than Monty. Hopefully the fans are right behind him now too - I think they will be.