Simulation or right call ?

[Donegal Hibby]

During the weekend I was the Newcastle United v Southampton game and there was an incident in it that have many talking with some mixed opinions on it … just interested on your opinions on this one and is cheating in the game needing to be stamped out and dealt with differently now ? … Thanks.

https://www.skysports.com/football/video/33744/13198811/fabian-schar-given-controversial-red-card-for-headbutt-on-ben-brereton-diaz

https://www.skysports.com/football/video/12606/13199698/ref-watch-did-newcastles-fabian-schar-deserve-to-see-red-against-southampton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TiqSqfMCXY

[MrSmith]

Would've sent both off. Clear intent by the Newcastle player and feigning injury by the second. Even though minimal contact both off.

[easty]

Stupid from Schar, he's lucky it didn't cost Newcastle points.

Brereton was a ****, but he's went there looking for a reaction and Schar has bit. I really like a player like that if he's on your team, but they're ****ing intolerable when they're not playing for Hibs.

I cannae call him Diaz, you cannae just add your mums South American maiden name to your name when you get called up for her country when you're 21, get a grip ya complete weirdo.

[MWHIBBIES]

It was a red. Extremely stupid by Schar.

It was rewatched by VAR who can see Diaz went down easy and still decided red card.

Id say Diaz stuck his head in too, so was lucky to escape 2 yellows.

[Donegal Hibby]

Would've sent both off. Clear intent by the Newcastle player and feigning injury by the second. Even though minimal contact both off.

I’d go along with that in fairness . I thought the Southampton player was trying to wind up Schar and think a player of his experience should have dealt with the whole situation better .

The reaction from the player is really embarrassing though and I do think he’s conned the ref ,I was surprised after VAR had looked at it that maybe both weren’t sent off .

I remember a penalty Sevco got against us in a game where I think Colak got a slight tug of the Jersey and went down like a sack of potatoes which at the time I thought was simulation as well .

It would be great to see a different approach to players cheating taken which would help refereeing in the long run . I think the fans would also be in favour too.

[overdrive]

I think it’s both. Stupid from Schär and deservedly sent of IMO as there was definitely contact and intent there but Brereton Díaz made an absolute meal out of it. Quite embarrassing from both players.

[Lago]

Big Dunc could show them a real head butt:agree:

[McGruber]

Not a red for me. Yellow each for both being *****

[Musselbound]

I don't recall if the Southampton player was booked (should have been). Other than that I thought it was the correct decision. Schar was the main aggressor and moved towards Diaz with the head. Can't be doing that.

[wookie70]

I think they both moved their heads towards each other. Personally I would see these types of situations as a yellow each and in this case the Saints boy would have got booked for the push too so would have been off. I would make it a red to chop an opponent down who is driving forward with the ball if there is no chance you can win it. I wouldn't care if they were in their own half. If someone actually headbutts someone then fair enough but these situations are not going to hurt anyone.

[Aldo]

I don't recall if the Southampton player was booked (should have been). Other than that I thought it was the correct decision. Schar was the main aggressor and moved towards Diaz with the head. Can't be doing that.

The Southampton player was booked for the initial push which instigated the incident.

Schar put himself in that position and paid the ultimate penalty. Diaz knew exactly what he was doing. Minimal contact (no marks etc) but went down like he’d been properly skelped. Made a right Mike Hunt of himself imho.

Schar can have no complaints as he fell for the bait. Call it cheating, call it part of the game but Diaz will now be a marked man by other teams for his antics.

[Musselbound]

The Southampton player was booked for the initial push which instigated the incident.

Schar put himself in that position and paid the ultimate penalty. Diaz knew exactly what he was doing. Minimal contact (no marks etc) but went down like he’d been properly skelped. Made a right Mike Hunt of himself imho.

Schar can have no complaints as he fell for the bait. Call it cheating, call it part of the game but Diaz will now be a marked man by other teams for his antics.

I didn't rewatch the incident but was commenting from memory of the weekend. Schar can have no complaints as you say. Diaz was perhaps fortunate. Not sure how he will become a marked man as he has shown there he knows how to get players sent off. I hate to see players over-reacting like that so am not in any way condoning that behaviour. Sadly there are many pros who would react in a similar way.

[Aldo]

I didn't rewatch the incident but was commenting from memory of the weekend. Schar can have no complaints as you say. Diaz was perhaps fortunate. Not sure how he will become a marked man as he has shown there he knows how to get players sent off. I hate to see players over-reacting like that so am not in any way condoning that behaviour. Sadly there are many pros who would react in a similar way.

He knew exactly what he was doing and I agree with your last bit.

[Sioux]

This is where the game has lost the plot. How many 'violent' challenges do we see in open play, only for the ref to rule that 'he got a slight touch on the ball' so no foul play? Meanwhile a player has to go off injured.

That 'rule' has made it a free for all for players to hit the ground and roll over a few times because they got a nudge that wouldn't affect an 80 year old in a supermarket aisle. It's utterly pathetic, and the fault lies with the game's administrators.

For years the game has accepted that the slightest touch can see players rolling about the ground holding their head, when that touch made contact with an arm for example. Or players diving about because they've lost control of it.

For me that created the art of simulation, and that's worse for the game than what happened in this incident. It simply allows players to cheat! Remember Lafferty.

The so called head butt wasn't a head butt, and it wasn't an attempt to inflict injury. Just because the ruling body deems that a particular action is a red card offence, and the players have been told as much, doesn't make it right. Diaz had no right to fall to the ground pretending to be seriously hurt, and should have been punished for simulation.

And those pundits and commentators claiming 'there was contact, he is entitled to go down' should be ashamed of themselves.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Stupid from Schar, he's lucky it didn't cost Newcastle points.

Brereton was a ****, but he's went there looking for a reaction and Schar has bit. I really like a player like that if he's on your team, but they're ****ing intolerable when they're not playing for Hibs.

I cannae call him Diaz, you cannae just add your mums South American maiden name to your name when you get called up for her country when you're 21, get a grip ya complete weirdo.

This x1000000. Absolute freak.


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[wookie70]

This is where the game has lost the plot. How many 'violent' challenges do we see in open play, only for the ref to rule that 'he got a slight touch on the ball' so no foul play? Meanwhile a player has to go off injured.

That 'rule' has made it a free for all for players to hit the ground and roll over a few times because they got a nudge that wouldn't affect an 80 year old in a supermarket aisle. It's utterly pathetic, and the fault lies with the game's administrators.

For years the game has accepted that the slightest touch can see players rolling about the ground holding their head, when that touch made contact with an arm for example. Or players diving about because they've lost control of it.

For me that created the art of simulation, and that's worse for the game than what happened in this incident. It simply allows players to cheat! Remember Lafferty.

The so called head butt wasn't a head butt, and it wasn't an attempt to inflict injury. Just because the ruling body deems that a particular action is a red card offence, and the players have been told as much, doesn't make it right. Diaz had no right to fall to the ground pretending to be seriously hurt, and should have been punished for simulation.

And those pundits and commentators claiming 'there was contact, he is entitled to go down' should be ashamed of themselves.

Exactly the reason why Boyle ended up making sure refs knew there was contact. A few times no contact. He was getting booted up and down the park with hardly a word spoken to the cloggers who were threatening his livelihood. Meanwhile a player tugs a jersey and it is an instant yellow or brushes a forehead against another player and an instant red. Football really needs to have a look at its rulebook from top to bottom with tackles that are not intended to make contact with the ball or endanger the opponent right at the top of the list of offenses followed by anything that is anti football such as tugging shirts, standing in front of freekicks and time wasting etc. Players squaring up to each other really isn't that much of a concern imo and for the event in question it is ludicrous that the Newcastle player gets a red when the Saints player instigated it and did almost the same head movement

[A Hi-Bee]

Exactly the reason why Boyle ended up making sure refs knew there was contact. A few times no contact. He was getting booted up and down the park with hardly a word spoken to the cloggers who were threatening his livelihood. Meanwhile a player tugs a jersey and it is an instant yellow or brushes a forehead against another player and an instant red. Football really needs to have a look at its rulebook from top to bottom with tackles that are not intended to make contact with the ball or endanger the opponent right at the top of the list of offenses followed by anything that is anti football such as tugging shirts, standing in front of freekicks and time wasting etc. Players squaring up to each other really isn't that much of a concern imo and for the event in question it is ludicrous that the Newcastle player gets a red when the Saints player instigated it and did almost the same head movement

Not got much interest in the english game, but a dive is a dive, and a foul is a foul, remember one game at Easter Road when we had George Best playing against the old hun, he eventually picked up the ball and offered it to one of the cloggers.

[Bostonhibby]

Think that Brereton Diaz generally won't think twice about going over, maimed or not.

Only thing I see in this one is a straight red for the Newcastle guy who should have left it to the ref to deal with what went before.

Whether you inflict major injury or not there's no reason to plant your head on anyone in their workplace.

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[Donegal Hibby]

Much the same as the Schar incident…
https://youtu.be/mVIJ0I4dv8I?feature=shared

[MWHIBBIES]

Think that Brereton Diaz generally won't think twice about going over, maimed or not.

Only thing I see in this one is a straight red for the Newcastle guy who should have left it to the ref to deal with what went before.

Whether you inflict major injury or not there's no reason to plant your head on anyone in their workplace.

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Unless they nick your tools. Then it's fair game 😉

[Bostonhibby]

Unless they nick your tools. Then it's fair game [emoji6][emoji106][emoji23][emoji23]

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[gbhibby]

Don't think there is any medical books that will show that when people touch foreheads slightly it causes paralysis to the legs.
Remember watching a rugby video and the ref was mic'd up and two rugby players went head to head and one went down like the incident at the weekend, the ref told the play who fell to the ground to get up and said to him this was not football he was playing.
My opinion is the player who goes down gets a red card that would soon put a stop to it. With VAR the ref should be asked to go to the monitor to ascertain if its violent or merely a coming together.

[gbhibby]

Big Dunc could show them a real head butt:agree:
Zidane as well

[blackpoolhibs]

Just make it a red card for both if two players go to put their heads together, that will stop it immediately.