Lee Johnson story - Open Goal

[Unseen work]

Not from his time at Hibs but thought it was too good to not share and show he’s even more mental than we ever thought 🤣

https://x.com/opengoalsport/status/1825925762118992118?s=46&t=jmxs-mZWT_cnYbURW-GKJw

[Unseen work]

Update - there’s more in the full episode

https://youtu.be/VOk6c32z-Lg?si=lymnADUc4QYhdXSo

About 9 minutes in since I know a lot don’t like the show!

McGeady mentions how at Hibs when we were in a poor run of form Johnson put gladiator on for them and made comparisons….

[JohnM1875]

Update - there’s more in the full episode

https://youtu.be/VOk6c32z-Lg?si=lymnADUc4QYhdXSo

About 9 minutes in since I know a lot don’t like the show!

McGeady mentions how at Hibs when we were in a poor run of form Johnson put gladiator on for them and made comparisons….

Gets even more concerning around 30 minutes about him signing for Hibs. Didn't even speak to Kensell or Ian Gordon and LJ agreed everything. Could just be McGeady talking pish, but I highly doubt it.

[Lendo]

Update - there’s more in the full episode

https://youtu.be/VOk6c32z-Lg?si=lymnADUc4QYhdXSo

About 9 minutes in since I know a lot don’t like the show!

McGeady mentions how at Hibs when we were in a poor run of form Johnson put gladiator on for them and made comparisons….

I wonder who was Wolf, Jet and Shadow?

[Hibees1973]

Sums up the state we have been for in years how this joker was employed by our owners/Kensell.

What a farce.

[TrinityHFC]

Gets even more concerning around 30 minutes about him signing for Hibs. Didn't even speak to Kensell or Ian Gordon and LJ agreed everything. Could just be McGeady talking pish, but I highly doubt it.

Isn't this what people want? I can't keep up if Gordon should be involved in transfers or not.

[TrinityHFC]

Sums up the state we have been for in years how this joker was employed by our owners/Kensell.

What a farce.

I'd enjoy the farce of playing in Europe every year to be fair.

[keep the faith]

Strangely it's once again mcgeady who comes out worst for me. Never comes across as a team player.

[JohnM1875]

Isn't this what people want? I can't keep up if Gordon should be involved in transfers or not.

McGeady says himself, at any other club you potentially agree to sign with the manager then the contract negotiating is done by the CEO or sporting director, not directly with the manager.

It'll be Mackay doing it now you'd imagine.

[TrinityHFC]

McGeady says himself, at any other club you potentially agree to sign with the manager then the contract negotiating is done by the CEO or sporting director, not directly with the manager.

It'll be Mackay doing it now you'd imagine.

They knew each other. Quite possible the manager was given the parameters to go and get him signed.

[Hibee Mac]

Gets even more concerning around 30 minutes about him signing for Hibs. Didn't even speak to Kensell or Ian Gordon and LJ agreed everything. Could just be McGeady talking pish, but I highly doubt it.Is it normal for players to be in direct contact with CEO and owners during transfers though?

Could they have just discussed it with LJ and agreed/signed off on the transfer that way?

We didn't have a director of football at that time, I'd be more concerned if he didn't speak with Brian McDermott or Malky Mackay now for example.

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[JohnM1875]

They knew each other. Quite possible the manager was given the parameters to go and get him signed.

Aye sound. Everything was working perfectly fine. That's why McGeady goes on to say majority of the players we signed in the summer were told they weren’t good enough by January.

Things were a total shambles. Glad we seem to have a much better set up now.

[JohnM1875]

Is it normal for players to be in direct contact with CEO and owners during transfers though?

Could they have just discussed it with LJ and agreed/signed off on the transfer that way?

We didn't have a director of football at that time, I'd be more concerned if he didn't speak with Brian McDermott or Malky Mackay now for example.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Agreed to sign whilst talking to LJ, perfectly normal. Its then not normal for a manager to be agreeing the contract conditions.

Kensell or McDermott would make sense.

[Billy Whizz]

Is it normal for players to be in direct contact with CEO and owners during transfers though?

Could they have just discussed it with LJ and agreed/signed off on the transfer that way?

We didn't have a director of football at that time, I'd be more concerned if he didn't speak with Brian McDermott or Malky Mackay now for example.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Usually the agent would do this with the CEO, in this case BK
Maybe McGeady was without an agent and thought he could do it himself

[Unseen work]

Agreed to sign whilst talking to LJ, perfectly normal. Its then not normal for a manager to be agreeing the contract conditions.

Kensell or McDermott would make sense.

McDerrmot wasn’t even employed by us when McGeady signed

Was Johnson not a manager too as opposed to a head coach? Not that but a deal surely

[Pretty Boy]

I kind of miss him.

He was so excruciating, the absolute embodiment of that one manager everyone who has ever worked in a office has had that you were guaranteed something to laugh at a couple of times a week minimum.

[JohnM1875]

McDerrmot wasn’t even employed by us when McGeady signed

Was Johnson not a manager too as opposed to a head coach? Not that but a deal surely

McGeady himself is saying the situation was bizarre. Been involved in football for about 20 years.

Why would a manager have a say over a player contract? He doesn't set the budget etc.

[BILLYHIBS]

I wonder who was Wolf, Jet and Shadow?

Aw ah was thinking Gladiator The Movie with lions chasing the players roond HTC

[pepe]

I kind of miss him.

He was so excruciating, the absolute embodiment of that one manager everyone who has ever worked in an office has had that you were guaranteed something to laugh at a couple of times a week minimum.
I also kind of miss him. He could occasionally get a tune out the players sometimes as well

[Since452]

It's becoming more and more apparent what a good job Johnson did imo. We've been a basket case ever since the Gordon's came in and he somehow got us Europe and big game wins in his only full season. And that was after taking over from the Maloney horror show.

[TrinityHFC]

McGeady himself is saying the situation was bizarre. Been involved in football for about 20 years.

Why would a manager have a say over a player contract? He doesn't set the budget etc.

What McGeady says about anything has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

[TelaStella]

What McGeady says about anything has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

Why? Not a dig, just wondering.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pagan Hibernia]

I also kind of miss him. He could occasionally get a tune out the players sometimes as well

Several times when he desperately needed a result, he found a way to get one.

Which makes you wonder what on earth was going on the rest of the time.

[TrinityHFC]

Several times when he desperately needed a result, he found a way to get one.

Which makes you wonder what on earth was going on the rest of the time.

He wasn’t helped with our recruitment and we had injuries including to McGeady that didn’t help. Boyle too? Miller never seemed fit / up to speed.

[The Modfather]

It's becoming more and more apparent what a good job Johnson did imo. We've been a basket case ever since the Gordon's came in and he somehow got us Europe and big game wins in his only full season. And that was after taking over from the Maloney horror show.

I think the only thing that sets him apart from Maloney and Johnson is having Nisbet. He papered over a lot of cracks and would have done likewise for Maloney & Monty if they had him available.

[SaulGoodman]

You know a manager talks a lot of ***** when quoting him on here gets you accidentally banned for racism.

Speaking from experience.

[keep the faith]

I think the only thing that sets him apart from Maloney and Johnson is having Nisbet. He papered over a lot of cracks and would have done likewise for Maloney & Monty if they had him available.

Your massively over rating Nisbet there I think.

He was not a player you could rely on.

[The Modfather]

Your massively over rating Nisbet there I think.

He was not a player you could rely on.

I’m not so sure. Nisbet scored 12 goals in 19 games when he came back from injury. Maloney inherited James Scott as his only option and Monty likewise with Vente.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It's becoming more and more apparent what a good job Johnson did imo. We've been a basket case ever since the Gordon's came in and he somehow got us Europe and big game wins in his only full season. And that was after taking over from the Maloney horror show.

We sneaked into Europe via the cat flap never mind the back door, but yes, we did well to get there. And we did alright in Europe too.

I certainly don't miss LJ though. I didn't find his time too inspiring and the fact we were hopeless before and after doesn't change that.

[The Tubs]

I’m not so sure. Nisbet scored 12 goals in 19 games when he came back from injury. Maloney inherited James Scott as his only option and Monty likewise with Vente.

Who had scored five goals from five shots when Monty came in. He then got Myziane for a good chunk of his tenure.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think the only thing that sets him apart from Maloney and Johnson is having Nisbet. He papered over a lot of cracks and would have done likewise for Maloney & Monty if they had him available.

Nick Montgomery had Maolida available who had an even better record than Nisbet had for Johnson.

What sets Montgomery apart is that he was absolutely ****ing awful.

[The Modfather]

Who had scored five goals from five shots when Monty came in. He then got Myziane for a good chunk of his tenure.

Maolida is a fair shout and a similar comparison to Nisbets impact. Although I’ve never seen the 5 goals from Vente’s first 5 shots as anything other than an anomaly and unsustainable. I think he was quickly found out. Man mark him when he’s in the box and he can’t get that shot away and he has nothing else to his game to mitigate it.

[The Tubs]

Maolida is a fair shout and a similar comparison to Nisbets impact. Although I’ve never seen the 5 goals from Vente’s first 5 shots as anything other than an anomaly and unsustainable. I think he was quickly found out. Man mark him when he’s in the box and he can’t get that shot away and he has nothing else to his game to mitigate it.

I'd say the enigma that is Vente's fall from being the best thing since sliced bread will probably never be solved, whether we pursue the Monty influence or he was always crap path of research. He was doing well, however. I even remember the first time he failed to score: I'm pretty sure it was a header against Dundee that he really should have put away and the game ended 0-0.

[1875Sean]

Hibs player dodging knife attacks, wonder why it didn’t work out for LJ

[andrew_dundee]

Lee was a bit of a roaster but with hindsight he was probably a better manager than Maloney and Monty.

His record against big teams was quite good and he got us into Europe. It's a pity we played so badly in the kind of matches you would expect us to win though.

[Unseen work]

Lee was a bit of a roaster but with hindsight he was probably a better manager than Maloney and Monty.

His record against big teams was quite good and he got us into Europe. It's a pity we played so badly in the kind of matches you would expect us to win though.

Would agree with this, makes you think he never completely “lost the changing room” either when you see some of the results and almost team spirit we had at times

If we stick with him last season I think he probably would have got top 6 again and provided another couple of big results

He was someone that was never going to win the fans over though. The interviews etc were torture

[H18 SFR]

Lots of eagerness to take the piss out LJ, like it or not, he’s been the best manager we’ve had out the last four appointments.

[Bayern Bru]

Hibs player dodging knife attacks, wonder why it didn’t work out for LJ

That was the Sunderland players.

Hibs players were made to watch the film Gladiator, so your point still stands…


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[Pagan Hibernia]

Lots of eagerness to take the piss out LJ, like it or not, he’s been the best manager we’ve had out the last four appointments.

That's an incredibly low bar.

[sauzee1989]

The truth of the matter is we have went backwards since Johnson 🙄McGeady was a waste of a signing and all he done was bad mouth the club when he was here and after he left. He made more appearances on sky sports than he did on park

[Mcbizz1998]

Seems to be doing the media rounds at the moment trying to get himself a new gig. He was on TalkSport yesterday evening as well. Got in my car and knew it was old Lee immediately with some of the buzz words he was coming out with.

Came across quite well though I must say.

[Centre Hawf]

I couldn't stand the wee arrogant tosser. But annoyingly his spell is the only one under the current regime that has been moderately successful (if we can call it that).

If he didn't come with such awful motivational tactics, a weirdly up and down eye for recruitment (who was his players vs Ian Gordons is still much debated), or if he wasn't just a general prick to people then he could have made a better run of it.

[Northernhibee]

A bit of revisionism about LJ recently. Maloney, Johnson, and Monty all seen some good results and good football, and also some howlers and football that was tough to watch. LJ could and maybe should have been sacked even quicker than Monty was, just before the break for the World Cup.


Just like under Monty we couldn’t get the result in the final game before the split to guarantee top six football, but fortuitously results went his way. They didn’t the following season. He also couldn’t lead the team to guarantee European football, and we had to rely on Celtic winning the cup to do so.

He also chose to play a youngster in Will Fish at RB in a vital derby, Monty was forced to play a sixteen year old at RB as he didn’t have any other options.


The difference between LJ keeping his job for longer than part of a season and Monty losing his job was LJ had a great deal of good fortune along the way IMO.

[sauzee1989]

A bit of revisionism about LJ recently. Maloney, Johnson, and Monty all seen some good results and good football, and also some howlers and football that was tough to watch. LJ could and maybe should have been sacked even quicker than Monty was, just before the break for the World Cup.


Just like under Monty we couldn’t get the result in the final game before the split to guarantee top six football, but fortuitously results went his way. They didn’t the following season. He also couldn’t lead the team to guarantee European football, and we had to rely on Celtic winning the cup to do so.

He also chose to play a youngster in Will Fish at RB in a vital derby, Monty was forced to play a sixteen year old at RB as he didn’t have any other options.


The difference between LJ keeping his job for longer than part of a season and Monty losing his job was LJ had a great deal of good fortune along the way IMO.

Monty was never forced to play Whittaker at right back. He done it so he could write it on cv that he’s giving youth players debuts when in reality he Was miles off being a hibs player

[TrinityHFC]

A bit of revisionism about LJ recently. Maloney, Johnson, and Monty all seen some good results and good football, and also some howlers and football that was tough to watch. LJ could and maybe should have been sacked even quicker than Monty was, just before the break for the World Cup.


Just like under Monty we couldn’t get the result in the final game before the split to guarantee top six football, but fortuitously results went his way. They didn’t the following season. He also couldn’t lead the team to guarantee European football, and we had to rely on Celtic winning the cup to do so.

He also chose to play a youngster in Will Fish at RB in a vital derby, Monty was forced to play a sixteen year old at RB as he didn’t have any other options.


The difference between LJ keeping his job for longer than part of a season and Monty losing his job was LJ had a great deal of good fortune along the way IMO.

Starting with revisionism claims then launching into your own revisionism...

[The Modfather]

The truth of the matter is we have went backwards since Johnson 🙄McGeady was a waste of a signing and all he done was bad mouth the club when he was here and after he left. He made more appearances on sky sports than he did on park

I think we’ve went backwaters partly because of Johnson. He inherited a mess, and left a much more expensive mess. This is his list of signings:

McKirdy
Cabraja
Miller
McGeady
Marshall
Tavares
Kenneh
Jeggo
Egan Riley
Hope
Youan
Schofield
Fish
Big Mike
Bojang
Devlin
Vente
Levitt
ALF
Obita
Boruc
Wollacot
Harbottle
Fish

24 signings. With maybe only Youan & Obita, though far from perfect and very up and down, an improvement on what he inherited. Plus Jeggo, Fish, Egan-Reilly & Big Myk as short term successes. An expensively poor success rate.

[we are hibs]

Like Nisbet yesterday, seems to be a rewriting of history going on here.


I wish neither McGeady or Johnson had been near Hibs.

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[Paulie Walnuts]

A bit of revisionism about LJ recently. Maloney, Johnson, and Monty all seen some good results and good football, and also some howlers and football that was tough to watch. LJ could and maybe should have been sacked even quicker than Monty was, just before the break for the World Cup.


Just like under Monty we couldn’t get the result in the final game before the split to guarantee top six football, but fortuitously results went his way. They didn’t the following season. He also couldn’t lead the team to guarantee European football, and we had to rely on Celtic winning the cup to do so.

He also chose to play a youngster in Will Fish at RB in a vital derby, Monty was forced to play a sixteen year old at RB as he didn’t have any other options.


The difference between LJ keeping his job for longer than part of a season and Monty losing his job was LJ had a great deal of good fortune along the way IMO.

Speaking of revisionism..

[Northernhibee]

Monty was never forced to play Whittaker at right back. He done it so he could write it on cv that he’s giving youth players debuts when in reality he Was miles off being a hibs player

We didn’t have another right back on the books at that point.

[Northernhibee]

Speaking of revisionism..

None of it is wrong though.

[Heisenberg]

A bit of revisionism about LJ recently. Maloney, Johnson, and Monty all seen some good results and good football, and also some howlers and football that was tough to watch. LJ could and maybe should have been sacked even quicker than Monty was, just before the break for the World Cup.


Just like under Monty we couldn’t get the result in the final game before the split to guarantee top six football, but fortuitously results went his way. They didn’t the following season. He also couldn’t lead the team to guarantee European football, and we had to rely on Celtic winning the cup to do so.

He also chose to play a youngster in Will Fish at RB in a vital derby, Monty was forced to play a sixteen year old at RB as he didn’t have any other options.


The difference between LJ keeping his job for longer than part of a season and Monty losing his job was LJ had a great deal of good fortune along the way IMO.

LJ kept his job longer because he got better results. Beating Hearts at ER was huge for him, Celtic result after the split too. Monty was going into the St J game at home last season with the chance to push on and get us into the top six, we lost yet he still had a chance at Motherwell because results went our way. He got lucky too but didn’t take advantage.

[Smartie]

I think we’ve went backwaters partly because of Johnson. He inherited a mess, and left a much more expensive mess. This is his list of signings:

McKirdy
Cabraja
Miller
McGeady
Marshall
Tavares
Kenneh
Jeggo
Egan Riley
Hope
Youan
Schofield
Fish
Big Mike
Bojang
Devlin
Vente
Levitt
ALF
Obita
Boruc
Wollacot
Harbottle
Fish

24 signings. With maybe only Youan & Obita, though far from perfect and very up and down, an improvement on what he inherited. Plus Jeggo, Fish, Egan-Reilly & Big Myk as short term successes. An expensively poor success rate.

I didn't mind LJ, I think I had more time for him than the vast majority of our support had for him.

The point you make here is fair - although rather than this necessarily being culpability on the part of Johnson, for me it seems more symptomatic of a club in trouble ie it's another manager throwing resource at short term solutions in order to hopefully gamble and save his own skin. It's not a great way to bring about long term success to a football club and it leads to exactly the sort of situation we find ourselves in now with a bloated squad full of players who aren't going to impact the first team.

I'll argue all day long that the timing of his dismissal was a huge part of our downfall - proper football clubs simply do not find themselves in a position where there is a legitimate shout to axe a manager after 3 league games, even if those league games had been lost. If he'd been sacked at the end of the previous season based on concerns throughout that season then whilst it might have seemed harsh, at least the next manager would have had a fighting chance of being successful. Condemning yet another transfer window, another season and effectively his successor as manager was folly in the extreme and tbh the main reason why our current situation is "suboptimal". Having decided he should start the season he at least deserved the full summer transfer window and the first round of fixtures in order to assess where we were with him, not unlike we did with Hecky, who I thought was dealt with fairly through poor form.

Directors (not just at our own club) are imo going to need to stand up to a bit of disquiet in the stands if they're to bring success to their clubs and not chop the manager at the first sign of grumbles from the stands.

[Paulie Walnuts]

None of it is wrong though.

I mean apart from suggesting Nick Montgomery got good results and played some good football, alluding to the idea that LJ only got top 6 because a result in a game he wasn’t involved in went his way when the 33 Hibs games he managed were much more of a contributing factor and the idea he was FORCED to play Whittaker, and that the difference between them was ‘good fortune’ then yes, you’re right, none of it is wrong.

Oh and of course using not being able to get third place and/or beat Aston Villa is a reasonable stick to beat him with as well. Especially when you’re backing the worst manager we’ve had since Butcher who finished in 8th place to the hilt.

[Northernhibee]

I mean apart from suggesting Nick Montgomery got good results and played some good football, alluding to the idea that LJ only got top 6 because a result in a game he wasn’t involved in went his way when the 33 Hibs games he managed were much more of a contributing factor and the idea he was FORCED to play Whittaker, and that the difference between them was ‘good fortune’ then yes, you’re right, none of it is wrong.

Oh and of course using not being able to get third place and/or beat Aston Villa is a reasonable stick to beat him with as well. Especially when you’re backing the worst manager we’ve had since Butcher who finished in 8th place to the hilt.

Who was he going to play at right back, Wollacott???

[Centre Hawf]

I mean apart from suggesting Nick Montgomery got good results and played some good football, alluding to the idea that LJ only got top 6 because a result in a game he wasn’t involved in went his way when the 33 Hibs games he managed were much more of a contributing factor and the idea he was FORCED to play Whittaker, and that the difference between them was ‘good fortune’ then yes, you’re right, none of it is wrong.

Oh and of course using not being able to get third place and/or beat Aston Villa is a reasonable stick to beat him with as well. Especially when you’re backing the worst manager we’ve had since Butcher who finished in 8th place to the hilt.

I think it's fair to say that Lee Johnson shat in his own nest enough with stupid results that did mean we were in the exact same position Monty was in, the difference was LJ got helped over the line with a result elsewhere as we also couldn't get it over the line in Perth much like Monty couldn't in Motherwell.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Who was he going to play at right back, Wollacott???

Aye, he should have played Wollacott. :rolleyes:

Alternatively, Whittaker started 6 games for Hibs last season. These were the defensive subs on the bench in each of those games.

St Mirren - Hanlon, Stevenson, Miller, Delf, Jeggo
Aberdeen - Jeggo, Hanlon, Delf, Harbottle
Livi - Jeggo, Stevenson, Harbottle, Delf, Rocky
Motherwell - Harbottle, Stevenson, Jeggo
St Mirren - Stevenson, Cadden, Megwa

He also started in the cup against Forfar where only Obita provided a defensive option on the bench. We did however start with Jeggo and had Levitt on the bench, so there could easily have been a shift about somewhere there.

There was stacks of other options, whether that involved changing formation, shifting Fish over to right back, making use of Harbottle or Delferriere, playing Jeggo out of position, playing Stevenson out of position, or in a third of those games, simply playing the natural right backs that were sitting on the bench.

It’s an utter myth that he was forced to play a 16 year old. He chose to do it and chose to do it on numerous occasions.

To further shut down the theory that it was to his detriment as well, our record was miles better when Whittaker started than it was when he didn’t start - P6 W3 D2 L1. So the idea it worked against him is also a load of pish.

[Alex Trager]

Lots of eagerness to take the piss out LJ, like it or not, he’s been the best manager we’ve had out the last four appointments.

This is a similar type of point that says ‘Newell is the best midfielder at the club’.

Being the best of a bunch of ***** is still *****.

[Alex Trager]

I mean apart from suggesting Nick Montgomery got good results and played some good football, alluding to the idea that LJ only got top 6 because a result in a game he wasn’t involved in went his way when the 33 Hibs games he managed were much more of a contributing factor and the idea he was FORCED to play Whittaker, and that the difference between them was ‘good fortune’ then yes, you’re right, none of it is wrong.

Oh and of course using not being able to get third place and/or beat Aston Villa is a reasonable stick to beat him with as well. Especially when you’re backing the worst manager we’ve had since Butcher who finished in 8th place to the hilt.

I think NorthernHibees assessment of LJ is spot on.

Don’t agree with his assessment of NM though.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think NorthernHibees assessment of LJ is spot on.

Don’t agree with his assessment of NM though.

Just to be clear, I’m not a fan of LJ either. He got top 6 though because of our results over the previous 33 games. Not because 1 of the 198 league games played up until that point of the Scottish Premiership season went a certain way, especially when it’s one we weren’t even involved in.

[Alex Trager]

Just to be clear, I’m not a fan of LJ either. He got top 6 though because of our results over the previous 33 games. Not because 1 of the 198 league games played up until that point of the Scottish Premiership season went a certain way, especially when it’s one we weren’t even involved in.

That’s a disingenuous assessment of the way the league works imo.

Or certainly, a half story of what happened.

Both are true. He got top six based on the games played up to that point. And indeed because of the way things went in other games we weren’t involved in.

I specifically recall texting my pals saying ‘CalMac saving the manager his job’ when we were waiting on Celtic beating St Mirren (I think).

[blackpoolhibs]

Lee was a bit of a roaster but with hindsight he was probably a better manager than Maloney and Monty.

His record against big teams was quite good and he got us into Europe. It's a pity we played so badly in the kind of matches you would expect us to win though.

Looking back at every manager since the Gordons came in, and with hindsight, none of them were ever going to be a success under Ron and now Ian.

Neither had or have a scooby how to run a successful football team, the proof of this is the way they have managed the way the football side of the club has been run.

Just look at the number of punts they took on young untested players, who were brought in to form a team below the first team, that would HOPEFULLY make the 1st team.

All while the first team declined from 3rd place under Ross, then the 1st team ignored to build a 2nd team.

They then never backed him and then sack Ross, and bring in a manager who'd never managed before, but had been someone in and around one of the top national sides in the world.

Of course they never backed Maloney, and expected a rookie to get crap players to play football like Belgium.

So they sack him and bring in LJ, still not backing him and still bringing in players recruited by our new Owner and head scout Ian Gordon.

Our football improved slightly, we could win 6-0 one week and lose the next to Livi or the likes.

So we sack him and bring in Montgomery, we know how that went, but again no clear strategy, went from Ross to a rookie, then to Someone who'd managed a fair bit in England, then to someone from the A league.

Looked to me those in charge at the top were just plucking names out the sky for the job, no clear strategy from day 1 of ownership, and nobody should be surprised at the mess David Gray and Malky McKay are having to clear up now.:rolleyes:

[Paulie Walnuts]

That’s a disingenuous assessment of the way the league works imo.

Or certainly, a half story of what happened.

Both are true. He got top six based on the games played up to that point. And indeed because of the way things went in other games we weren’t involved in.

I specifically recall texting my pals saying ‘CalMac saving the manager his job’ when we were waiting on Celtic beating St Mirren (I think).

It’s not disingenuous at all. The league works on a cumulative amount of points gained from each and every game. It becomes disingenuous when there’s a suggestion that one individual game (and on top of that, one we weren’t even involved in) is the reason for where someone is placed after 33 games rather than all the other ones.

[Alex Trager]

It’s not disingenuous at all. The league works on a cumulative amount of points gained from each and every game. It becomes disingenuous when there’s a suggestion that one individual game (and on top of that, one we weren’t even involved in) is the reason for where someone is placed after 33 games rather than all the other ones.

It’s both.
It’s disingenuous or perhaps more correctly, wrong, to suggest it is one or the other.

Your league placing is based on your performance and the performance of those around you.

The two things interplay at once

[Paulie Walnuts]

It’s both.
It’s disingenuous or perhaps more correctly, wrong, to suggest it is one or the other.

Your league placing is based on your performance and the performance of those around you.

The two things interplay at once

Yup. And up until that point there’d been 198 games played. That one game wasn’t the reason we got top 6. The way all 198 games panned out was. Suggesting we only got there because St J (I think it was them?) didn’t get a result in 1 of those 198 games is nonsense.

[The Modfather]

It’s not disingenuous at all. The league works on a cumulative amount of points gained from each and every game. It becomes disingenuous when there’s a suggestion that one individual game (and on top of that, one we weren’t even involved in) is the reason for where someone is placed after 33 games rather than all the other ones.

Are you saying it’s black and white with no room for nuance or variables? As an example in the top 6 under Johnson. St Mirren played a full strength Celtc the week before we played a second sting Celtc. Do factors like that not play a part in where teams finish?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Are you saying it’s black and white with no room for nuance or variables? As an example in the top 6 under Johnson. St Mirren played a full strength Celtc the week before we played a second sting Celtc. Do factors like that not play a part in where teams finish?

I have no idea how that works against my point.

Teams will be play full strength and under strength teams all the way through the season. Injuries/suspensions/loss of form/fixtures will see to that. You’ll still be placed based on your points total over the course of the full season regardless of how many teams you played at full strength, how many times you were under strength etc.

[The Modfather]

I have no idea how that works against my point.

Teams will be play full strength and under strength teams all the way through the season. Injuries/suspensions/loss of form will see to that. You’ll still be placed based on your points total over the course of the full season regardless of how many teams you played at full strength, how many times you were under strength etc.

I think you’re being obtuse now. I generally agree that clubs finish where they deserve to. However we got a two point swing on St Mirren in the race for a European slot due to external factors. St Mirren played a Celtc side needing points to clinch the title. The next week we played a second string Celtc in party mode. External factors like that do have a bearing on where clubs finish IMO.

[MWHIBBIES]

I think you’re being obtuse now. I generally agree that clubs finish where they deserve to. However we got a two point swing on St Mirren in the race for a European slot due to external factors. St Mirren played a Celtc side needing points to clinch the title. The next week we played a second string Celtc in party mode. External factors like that do have a bearing on where clubs finish IMO.

We got a big swing by beating st Mirren 3 times that season too. We were clearly the better team.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We got a big swing by beating st Mirren 3 times that season too. We were clearly the better team.

:agree:

In the grand scheme of things, individual games mean very little in terms of where you’re going to finish.

If you beat someone on the last day of the season to overtake them, it may well feel like that game counts for so, so much. In reality though, the cumulation of points in all the other games is the important part that put you in the position to take advantage of a good result. Same applies for the St J game. The points we gathered in the previous 33 games and the points St J gathered in their previous 32 games contributed a hell of a lot more to where we both finished than that one result. Likewise with us finishing above St Mirren.

[Smartie]

:agree:

In the grand scheme of things, individual games mean very little in terms of where you’re going to finish.

If you beat someone on the last day of the season to overtake them, it may well feel like that game counts for so, so much. In reality though, the cumulation of points in all the other games is the important part that put you in the position to take advantage of a good result. Same applies for the St J game. The points we gathered in the previous 33 games and the points St J gathered in their previous 32 games contributed a hell of a lot more to where we both finished than that one result. Likewise with us finishing above St Mirren.

On this note, it would be nice for Hibs to start the league season with a credible team rather than reaching mid-September before having our signings made and players bedded in.

The games at the start of the season are worth the same number of points as the ones leading up the split and beyond.

Not really relevant to your point here, but anyway.

[Paulie Walnuts]

On this note, it would be nice for Hibs to start the league season with a credible team rather than reaching mid-September before having our signings made and players bedded in.

The games at the start of the season are worth the same number of points as the ones leading up the split and beyond.

Not really relevant to your point here, but anyway.

I was actually going to add something into my post saying similar but wasn’t sure it was relevant to the discussion. Agree completely.

[Since452]

Looking back at every manager since the Gordons came in, and with hindsight, none of them were ever going to be a success under Ron and now Ian.

Neither had or have a scooby how to run a successful football team, the proof of this is the way they have managed the way the football side of the club has been run.

Just look at the number of punts they took on young untested players, who were brought in to form a team below the first team, that would HOPEFULLY make the 1st team.

All while the first team declined from 3rd place under Ross, then the 1st team ignored to build a 2nd team.

They then never backed him and then sack Ross, and bring in a manager who'd never managed before, but had been someone in and around one of the top national sides in the world.

Of course they never backed Maloney, and expected a rookie to get crap players to play football like Belgium.

So they sack him and bring in LJ, still not backing him and still bringing in players recruited by our new Owner and head scout Ian Gordon.

Our football improved slightly, we could win 6-0 one week and lose the next to Livi or the likes.

So we sack him and bring in Montgomery, we know how that went, but again no clear strategy, went from Ross to a rookie, then to Someone who'd managed a fair bit in England, then to someone from the A league.

Looked to me those in charge at the top were just plucking names out the sky for the job, no clear strategy from day 1 of ownership, and nobody should be surprised at the mess David Gray and Malky McKay are having to clear up now.:rolleyes:

Agree word for word.

[WestStandWillie]

Johnson had bright spells as manager but his ultimate failing (and this can be applied to Maloney, Montgomery etc...) was being unable to beat teams like Livingston, Ross County, St Mirren etc...

Being overrun by Livingston at Easter Road is unforgiveable.

Would be unfair to pin it all on the manager(s) though, the players have to take their share of the blame but it seems to just wash over them.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Johnson had bright spells as manager but his ultimate failing (and this can be applied to Maloney, Montgomery etc...) was being unable to beat teams like Livingston, Ross County, St Mirren etc...

Being overrun by Livingston at Easter Road is unforgiveable.

Would be unfair to pin it all on the manager(s) though, the players have to take their share of the blame but it seems to just wash over them.

The players are constantly criticised so I’m not sure it washes over them at all.

[Since452]

Monty was never forced to play Whittaker at right back. He done it so he could write it on cv that he’s giving youth players debuts when in reality he Was miles off being a hibs player

Correct. Could tell from his first interview that he was going to shoehorn a young player in. The forced to play young Whittaker thing is an absolute myth.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Correct. Could tell from his first interview that he was going to shoehorn a young player in. The forced to play young Whittaker thing is an absolute myth.

:agree:

I posted earlier in the thread a list of the defensive players that were available at the time. You could probably produce 5 -10 different line ups that didn’t need to involve Whittaker for every game that he started other than maybe Forfar in the cup. The idea he was ‘forced’ to do it or that he simply had no other option is an absolute nonsense. He chose to repeatedly play Whittaker despite the fact he was miles from being ready for first team football at Hibs.

[Pagan Hibernia]

easy to tell there's not much to look forward to at hibs these days when the good folk of hibs.net are engaged in intense debates about which of hibs former pish managers was slightly less pish than their other former pish managers.

[greenlex]

Looking back at every manager since the Gordons came in, and with hindsight, none of them were ever going to be a success under Ron and now Ian.

Neither had or have a scooby how to run a successful football team, the proof of this is the way they have managed the way the football side of the club has been run.

Just look at the number of punts they took on young untested players, who were brought in to form a team below the first team, that would HOPEFULLY make the 1st team.

All while the first team declined from 3rd place under Ross, then the 1st team ignored to build a 2nd team.

They then never backed him and then sack Ross, and bring in a manager who'd never managed before, but had been someone in and around one of the top national sides in the world.

Of course they never backed Maloney, and expected a rookie to get crap players to play football like Belgium.

So they sack him and bring in LJ, still not backing him and still bringing in players recruited by our new Owner and head scout Ian Gordon.

Our football improved slightly, we could win 6-0 one week and lose the next to Livi or the likes.

So we sack him and bring in Montgomery, we know how that went, but again no clear strategy, went from Ross to a rookie, then to Someone who'd managed a fair bit in England, then to someone from the A league.

Looked to me those in charge at the top were just plucking names out the sky for the job, no clear strategy from day 1 of ownership, and nobody should be surprised at the mess David Gray and Malky McKay are having to clear up now.:rolleyes:
And once again another rookie when stability during a rebuild was the absolute minimum requirement. I hope it works out I really do.

[givescotlandfreedom]

Update - there’s more in the full episode

https://youtu.be/VOk6c32z-Lg?si=lymnADUc4QYhdXSo

About 9 minutes in since I know a lot don’t like the show!

McGeady mentions how at Hibs when we were in a poor run of form Johnson put gladiator on for them and made comparisons….

"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!"
Erm...naw

[1875Sean]

That was the Sunderland players.

Hibs players were made to watch the film Gladiator, so your point still stands…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was the headline from the record, I listened to the interview it was with Hibs when LJ got an ex SAS speaker in, I remember at the time in the press when there was chat about it

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/lee-johnson-looks-sas-help-26678167

[Greenio]

McGeady reeks of unprofessionalism so im not taking his word as gospel about anything.

Talking about Emry calling him to talk about the team 'Why you calling me, im not your pal' Nah, hes your boss, show some respect and maybe not act like hes bothering you eh

[Since452]

McGeady is a bigger slaver than LJ. Loves the sound of his own voice. Although clearly talented, barely contributed anything in a Hibs shirt. Almost forgot he even played for us.

[hibee-boys]

Can’t stick McGeady, comes across as an arrogant pxxx.

[WestStandWillie]

Wouldn't trust a word that comes out his mouth tbh

Spent more time in the media bumming up Celtic than actually playing for us. By all accounts he done the same at Ayr.

Bitter spiteful wee fud.

[JimBHibees]

McGeady reeks of unprofessionalism so im not taking his word as gospel about anything.

Talking about Emry calling him to talk about the team 'Why you calling me, im not your pal' Nah, hes your boss, show some respect and maybe not act like hes bothering you eh

Emry?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Emry?

Thought the same. Can’t for the life of me think who that would be.

[WestStandWillie]

Emry?

McGreedy's boss at Spartak I think

[Paulie Walnuts]

McGreedy's boss at Spartak I think

Didn’t realise he was ever there!

[JimBHibees]

McGreedy's boss at Spartak I think

Oh right didn’t realise that. Don’t mind listening to him however don’t get the impression they are as accurate as he would like to make out

[HFC93]

I can't stand Mcgeady. He's always got a wee story about a former manager or an old teammate. He just comes across as a snake.

[JimBHibees]

McGeady reeks of unprofessionalism so im not taking his word as gospel about anything.

Talking about Emry calling him to talk about the team 'Why you calling me, im not your pal' Nah, hes your boss, show some respect and maybe not act like hes bothering you eh

Wonder if he actually said that or just girned about it after the call. Know which one i think it was

[Smartie]

I can't stand Mcgeady. He's always got a wee story about a former manager or an old teammate. He just comes across as a snake.

I agree.

I actually really liked him as a player during the very seldom glimpses we got of him - he was clearly still a class act.

But he's a torn faced mess in every single one of these interview things that he does. He'd be the last person I'd be wanting to bring into a team environment as if things weren't going his way you could easily see him being a malignant influence.

And the one that he did where he inferred that he got abuse at Easter Road as a Celtic player due to his religion would have ensured that there was no way I'd have ever have brought him to Hibs.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I agree.

I actually really liked him as a player during the very seldom glimpses we got of him - he was clearly still a class act.

But he's a torn faced mess in every single one of these interview things that he does. He'd be the last person I'd be wanting to bring into a team environment as if things weren't going his way you could easily see him being a malignant influence.

And the one that he did where he inferred that he got abuse at Easter Road as a Celtic player due to his religion would have ensured that there was no way I'd have ever have brought him to Hibs.

:confused:

Did he accuse hibs fans of being sectarian against catholics?

[Smartie]

:confused:

Did he accuse hibs fans of being sectarian against catholics?

https://x.com/BBCSportScot/status/1528428224522293248

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

1:45 in he name checks Hibs as one of the many places he went where he got abuse that certain other players didn't get.

Didn't stop him signing a contract for us, certainly.

[Pagan Hibernia]

https://x.com/BBCSportScot/status/1528428224522293248

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

1:45 in he name checks Hibs as one of the many places he went where he got abuse that certain other players didn't get.

Didn't stop him signing a contract for us, certainly.

That is odd.

Especially as when he signed for us he made comments about feeling an affinity for Hibs due to their origins.

[easty]

Greetin faced whiney wee **** who I never liked before he came to Hibs, and cannae stand still.

He’s just got some wee pathetic loser vibe about him. Like Richard Hammond, or Douglas Ross.

[leith lynx]

Aiden Mcgeady is a greeting faced short streak of misery, a petted lipped miserable package with too much money.

[JimBHibees]

Aiden Mcgeady is a greeting faced short streak of misery, a petted lipped miserable package with too much money.

Not a fan 😃

[JimBHibees]

https://x.com/BBCSportScot/status/1528428224522293248

Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

1:45 in he name checks Hibs as one of the many places he went where he got abuse that certain other players didn't get.

Didn't stop him signing a contract for us, certainly.

That was because he had chosen to play for Ireland. Can't remember it happening but likely did