Playing from the back

[andrew_dundee]

Why has this stupid tactic persisted for so long? We are not a good enough team to be passing around in our own box, it just gifts goals and loses possession in vulnerable places.

Monty tested the tactic to destruction and Gray seems determined to make the same mistake. We aren't Man City and never will be.

[Willis1875]

If we are going to do it then at least pass it out to one of the more comfortable on the ball defenders or a midfielder could show a bit of intelligence and drop deep to take it

[Blaster]

The manager has to take part of the blame. Stop doing it

[Unseen work]

I don’t even really think we try play from the back.

Sure every now and again we go short, but it’s hardly crazy stuff we’re trying

Just a howler of a goal

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

The manager has to take part of the blame. Stop doing it

This, it's not rocket science, we have been guilty of this for ages.

[LunasBoots]

Marv wasn't the sort of player at Blackpool for playing out from the back surely Hibs researched this before signing him and then persisting with this approach....

[tonyrougier123]

I keep getting told aye but that’s modern football. Terrible statement that, just put the ball 70 yards up the park. Under pressure in your own 18yrd box or a 50/50 in opponents half,I know what I’d rather when your playing Celtic of all teams.

[JimBHibees]

Every player should be able to play out i find it more depressing how long we play the ball.

[TrinityHFC]

I don’t even really think we try play from the back.

Sure every now and again we go short, but it’s hardly crazy stuff we’re trying

Just a howler of a goal

Yep, correct.

[Mikey_1875]

Gray actually had his hands in the air on the touchline before the bye kick. I’m assuming to tell Bursik to play it long for Miller to try and get the flick on. For whatever reason he wasn’t heard and the nightmare then followed. I put it down to just rotten play from CH and Goalie.

Playing out actually worked well a couple of times today. Worked it out wide to Obita who had all the time in the world to cushion a cross straight into Schmeichels hands.

[The dalmeny]

I keep getting told aye but that’s modern football. Terrible statement that, just put the ball 70 yards up the park. Under pressure in your own 18yrd box or a 50/50 in opponents half,I know what I’d rather when your playing Celtic of all teams.


You're right, almost every punt up the field us a 50/50, it also wears out the keeper. Playing out from the back is possession football and you have to have the players to do that.

[Glory Lurker]

There's only a relative handful of teams on the planet who can play it but it's become the orthodoxy of how you play football. Better teams than us are at it and they're honking to watch too.

Maybe, just like pop music, the magic of football has had its day?

[jeffers]

I didn’t think we had been since DG was appointed. Today was the first time I thought we did, against the worst opposition we could choose to. Hopefully it gets nipped in the bud after today.

[Boyle89]

So frustrating that we were getting some joy down the right by playing it long and we then play it short and it ends up with the worst of the back 3. Just a shocker of a decision. That's 3 goals in 3 games we've conceded from pass backs and poor keeper clearances. Let's stop putting ourselves in these situations for a few weeks at least.

[Smartie]

Why has this stupid tactic persisted for so long? We are not a good enough team to be passing around in our own box, it just gifts goals and loses possession in vulnerable places.

Monty tested the tactic to destruction and Gray seems determined to make the same mistake. We aren't Man City and never will be.

I struggle with it a bit tbh, whilst acknowledging and accepting I'm a dinosaur.

There's no problem with defenders passing the ball about, trying to build from the back, but I find some of the risks that seem to be acceptable to take in football nowadays to be ridiculous. If you take today's third goal and the goal we lost up at St Johnstone last season when Dylan Levitt lost the ball, there just seems to be a pretty crazy risk appetite with some play that I'm just not comfortable with. I get that there are probably stats to back up that you're better losing the odd goal than just blootering it out the park in certain situations but I'm just struggling with it. Watching any highlights from the English leagues it seems that these aren't isolated incidents that just affect us.

It's quite hard to unlearn stuff like "never pass the ball across your own goal" that got hard wired into you at an early age but it's not all that hard to find fairly compelling evidence to suggest that pissing about at the back isn't a great idea for anyone other than the world's best players.

[Real Emerald]

That was panicking from the back,

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Why has this stupid tactic persisted for so long? We are not a good enough team to be passing around in our own box, it just gifts goals and loses possession in vulnerable places.

Monty tested the tactic to destruction and Gray seems determined to make the same mistake. We aren't Man City and never will be.

if you ultimately want to sell outside of Scotland maybe it’s a barrier if you don’t play that way?

[cocteautwin]

It’s as dumb as rotating the team instead of playing your best players. As another poster said - we’re not Man City.

[basehibby]

At least we are not playing out from the back as if part of some religious observation as per under Monty. We are mixing it up - going long sometimes and short others. It was a shocker of a passback though.

[Pytheas]

We don't. Seriously stop trying to over analyse every goal.

Prior to the 3rd goal Ekpiteta played about 4 long balls over the top for boyle and Miller, we we're getting joy out of it.

For the goal it obviously wasn't on so he plays it back to the keeper expecting him to go long, he chucks it in.

Nothing to do with our style of play ffs just a howler.

[B.H.F.C]

The third goal was just a bad decision from Ekpiteta (again) rather than it coming from an enforced style of play. Wed had plenty joy in the 10 minutes before that putting the ball on top of Greg Taylor and down that channel. He then decided to do what he’s done in the previous two games and it cost us, again, although the keeper should have dealt with it anyway.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

You're right, almost every punt up the field us a 50/50, it also wears out the keeper. Playing out from the back is possession football and you have to have the players to do that.

Wears out the keeper, seriously? 😀

[worcesterhibby]

At least we are not playing out from the back as if part of some religious observation as per under Monty. We are mixing it up - going long sometimes and short others. It was a shocker of a passback though.

it really isn’t that bad a pass back, just terrible decision making by Bursik

[Pytheas]

The third goal was just a bad decision from Ekpiteta (again) rather than it coming from an enforced style of play. Wed had plenty joy in the 10 minutes before that putting the ball on top of Greg Taylor and down that channel. He then decided to do what he’s done in the previous two games and it cost us, again, although the keeper should have dealt with it anyway.

It's such a small error though from Ekpiteta, the blame lies with Bursik.

[B.H.F.C]

It's such a small error though from Ekpiteta, the blame lies with Bursik.

Bursik definitely makes the bigger error, as I say I’d have it down as more of a bad decision than an error from Ekpiteta. That’s three games on the bounce we’ve lost a goal from him playing back to the goalie when he didn’t need to. I think that’s one of the things Gray was referring to when he spoke about players keeping doing the same things.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

We don't. Seriously stop trying to over analyse every goal.

Prior to the 3rd goal Ekpiteta played about 4 long balls over the top for boyle and Miller, we we're getting joy out of it.

For the goal it obviously wasn't on so he plays it back to the keeper expecting him to go long, he chucks it in.

Nothing to do with our style of play ffs just a howler.

amen. It was a howler and the over analysts stems in part from the nature of modern day coverage.
what gets me is the default starting position tends to be the perfect game where mistakes don’t exist.

[Paulie Walnuts]

it really isn’t that bad a pass back, just terrible decision making by Bursik

It’s pretty poor imo but it did leave Bursik the ability to get rid of it still. I’m not even convinced Ekpiteta looked to see if there was a Celtic player there. If he did you’d have to think he’d never have played it.

Fault from both of them, ultimate fault definitely lies with the goalie though.

[Unseen work]

It’s pretty poor imo but it did leave Bursik the ability to get rid of it still. I’m not even convinced Ekpiteta looked to see if there was a Celtic player there. If he did you’d have to think he’d never have played it.

Fault from both of them, ultimate fault definitely lies with the goalie though.

Yep, especially with the player being Kuhn. You know he doesn’t fancy a 50/50 against a keeper.

So many keepers would just go out and smash through everything there to prevent a goal

Bursik looks soft as anything and then turns around like it wasn’t his fault

On open goal the other week Gordon Dalziel was speaking about him and then said “I’ve had stronger mints”. I tend to agree.

[Gruff]

Whilst i don't think we have playing out from the back down to a tee just yet, the blame isn't 100% on the defence. Many times during the game, the ball would be rolled out to either of the defenders, they would pass it back and forth and then ultimately hoooof it up the park. (That being said we did get some joy with Ekpetita and Miller and the ball over the top, so it was small passages like that that the players did think on the same level.)
However, the midfield rarely show for the ball or make themselves available, so we resort back to hoooooof ball. This is what i think puts the defence under pressure and the mistakes. They are not confident that if they play out to the midfield, they can hold it and it won't just come straight back to them.

However, Celtic do have the ability to pull players way out of position and exploit the space very well.

[McGruber]

We don't. Seriously stop trying to over analyse every goal.

Prior to the 3rd goal Ekpiteta played about 4 long balls over the top for boyle and Miller, we we're getting joy out of it.

For the goal it obviously wasn't on so he plays it back to the keeper expecting him to go long, he chucks it in.

Nothing to do with our style of play ffs just a howler.

Was a howler, no doubt but even before it with the goal kick tapped sideways to Rocky. We werr getting a foothold in the game away to Celtic, just get us up the park

[EVENTUALLY]

it really isn’t that bad a pass back, just terrible decision making by Bursik


It's such a small error though from Ekpiteta, the blame lies with Bursik.


Bursik definitely makes the bigger error, as I say I’d have it down as more of a bad decision than an error from Ekpiteta. That’s three games on the bounce we’ve lost a goal from him playing back to the goalie when he didn’t need to. I think that’s one of the things Gray was referring to when he spoke about players keeping doing the same things.


It’s pretty poor imo but it did leave Bursik the ability to get rid of it still. I’m not even convinced Ekpiteta looked to see if there was a Celtic player there. If he did you’d have to think he’d never have played it.

Fault from both of them, ultimate fault definitely lies with the goalie though.


Yep, especially with the player being Kuhn. You know he doesn’t fancy a 50/50 against a keeper.

So many keepers would just go out and smash through everything there to prevent a goal

Bursik looks soft as anything and then turns around like it wasn’t his fault

On open goal the other week Gordon Dalziel was speaking about him and then said “I’ve had stronger mints”. I tend to agree.

After Ekpiteta's short back pass at St. Mirren I noticed in the first game against Celtic he was cannoning his passes to Miller and Newell, clearly having been warned to pass the ball firmly. His backpass yesterday was marginally to the wrong side of the goalie but he hit it firmly. Bursik had tons of time to deal with it and tried to be smart. Game over right there. What happened should never have happened as these keepers spend hours on a weekly basis dealing with kicking situations and being decisive. Bursik was massively at fault and cost us any chance of unnerving Celtic the longer the game wore on and maybe snatching another set piece opportunity.

[hibsbollah]

what gets me is the default starting position tends to be the perfect game where mistakes don’t exist.

What a great point this is and perfectly describes how I feel some fans have missed the point, whether its about the constant search for superior players to replace the ‘duds’ we’ve got, or the defence of VAR and the over analysis of ref mistakes. Mistakes happen.

[Alfred E Newman]

I can't believe Ekpiteta is getting off so lightly here. As far as I'm concerned the 3rd goal was all down to him. He should have cleared his lines but inexplicably decided to turn and play a hospital pass back to the goalkeeper without even looking to see if Celtic had a player in the box. Yes Bursik could have dealt with it better but he shouldn't have been put under that pressure in the first place .

[Lago]

We haven't got players with the ability to play it out from the back, thought that had been shelved but must be playing to managers instructions, that worries me.

[BoomtownHibees]

We haven't got players with the ability to play it out from the back, thought that had been shelved but must be playing to managers instructions, that worries me.

It wasn’t a constant yesterday though and mixing it up in the right thing to do

[Houston7]

I can't believe Ekpiteta is getting off so lightly here. As far as I'm concerned the 3rd goal was all down to him. He should have cleared his lines but inexplicably decided to turn and play a hospital pass back to the goalkeeper without even looking to see if Celtic had a player in the box. Yes Bursik could have dealt with it better but he shouldn't have been put under that pressure in the first place .

Yes, as soon as Expiteta turned, I yelled “What are you doing?” at the telly. However, Bursik was either too casual or trying to be too clever. I’ve been giving both these players the benefit of the doubt, but now they worry me - particularly Bursik, who doesn’t give those in front of him much confidence.

[overdrive]

Yes, as soon as Expiteta turned, I yelled “What are you doing?” at the telly. However, Bursik was either too casual or trying to be too clever. I’ve been giving both these players the benefit of the doubt, but now they worry me - particularly Bursik, who doesn’t give those in front of him much confidence.

I'm certainly not a fan of Ekpiteta so far but I'd like to see him with a better goalkeeper behind him.

[Brightside]

I don’t even really think we try play from the back.

Sure every now and again we go short, but it’s hardly crazy stuff we’re trying

Just a howler of a goal

We hardly ever do it now. The majority tactic has been a long ball out to Miller and we lose the 2nd ball. Hopefully a proper no 6 will allow us to play football.

[Musselbound]

I can't believe Ekpiteta is getting off so lightly here. As far as I'm concerned the 3rd goal was all down to him. He should have cleared his lines but inexplicably decided to turn and play a hospital pass back to the goalkeeper without even looking to see if Celtic had a player in the box. Yes Bursik could have dealt with it better but he shouldn't have been put under that pressure in the first place .

Tend to agree. I thought Ekpiteta had a possible outball to the right touchline, which would probably have resulted in us losing a throw in or possession if not executed.

I keep hearing this type of football described as 'risk and reward' but I'm seeing a lot more of the former. It's not just Hibs. Falkirk's second goal v Hearts was not too dissimilar and even in the EPL you see these types of goals conceded every other week.

[matty_f]

There’s a time and a place for it, a game where we’ve spent the match testing the ball like a hot potato and constantly giving it away would seem a fairly obvious call to not try it.

Poor decision making and poor execution, and completely avoidable.

[theonlywayisup]

'Hibs blunder shows how much football's changed' - https://www.bbc.com/sport/videos/cx29neyk0ldo

Interesting podcast with Jackie McNamara.

[greenlex]

We don't. Seriously stop trying to over analyse every goal.

Prior to the 3rd goal Ekpiteta played about 4 long balls over the top for boyle and Miller, we we're getting joy out of it.

For the goal it obviously wasn't on so he plays it back to the keeper expecting him to go long, he chucks it in.

Nothing to do with our style of play ffs just a howler.
Both a ball wide over the top and a simple ten yard pass to milker on the touch line we’re both on. Why he decided to turn back and put the keeper under pressure is baffling. He probably thought it was the safe play but it most certainly wasn’t and rarely is.

[andrew_dundee]

It was me who put up the post yesterday. I was probably a bit too definitive in my assessment.

There's definitely a time and place for playing from the back and TBF there were times we did it well, but it gave me flashbacks to Monty where we tried it every time. It's been a good discussion though.

Also, to be honest, I was a bit pissed off about the goal :p

[JimBHibees]

We hardly ever do it now. The majority tactic has been a long ball out to Miller and we lose the 2nd ball. Hopefully a proper no 6 will allow us to play football.

Agree our approach seems a bit basic hopefully Kwon improves that

[blackpoolhibs]

We hardly ever do it now. The majority tactic has been a long ball out to Miller and we lose the 2nd ball. Hopefully a proper no 6 will allow us to play football.

Newell?:confused:

[Unseen work]

Agree our approach seems a bit basic hopefully Kwon improves that

I’m not convinced Kwon will play as a 6

Think we’ll still see Newell as the deepest of the midfield 3 with Kwon and another (hopefully McCowan) further forward and pressing from the front

[BoomtownHibees]

I’m not convinced Kwon will play as a 6

Think we’ll still see Newell as the deepest of the midfield 3 with Kwon and another (hopefully McCowan) further forward and pressing from the front

He has played as a defensive midfielder the majority of his career and I reckon that’s the job we’ve brought him in to do

He will be the deepest of the 3 imo

[Brightside]

I’m not convinced Kwon will play as a 6

Think we’ll still see Newell as the deepest of the midfield 3 with Kwon and another (hopefully McCowan) further forward and pressing from the front

I'll be gutted if Kwon isn't the Dylan McGeough of this new squad.

[Lago]

'Hibs blunder shows how much football's changed' - https://www.bbc.com/sport/videos/cx29neyk0ldo

Interesting podcast with Jackie McNamara.
Yip Jackie likes the ball in the forward areas, as do I.

[wookie70]

Watching MOTD we aren't the only team chucking goals away playing out from the Keeper. For me we looked more dangerous when Marv knocked it long into the channels

[JimBHibees]

I’m not convinced Kwon will play as a 6

Think we’ll still see Newell as the deepest of the midfield 3 with Kwon and another (hopefully McCowan) further forward and pressing from the front

Would be amazed if Kwon isn't our deep lying midfielder

[hibsbollah]

I’m not convinced Kwon will play as a 6

Think we’ll still see Newell as the deepest of the midfield 3 with Kwon and another (hopefully McCowan) further forward and pressing from the front

I am, that’s exactly where hes played before.

[TrinityHFC]

Yip Jackie likes the ball in the forward areas, as do I.

I’m sure him in his playing days and all his teams he managed never had a short passback….

[Callum_62]

Get the big boy upfront and punt it forward!

Mon the Hibs

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Unseen work]

I am, that’s exactly where hes played before.

He has played there.

But he’s also played more advanced in an 8 where he gets about the park and presses.

Saw some comments about his time in Korea and how he was better slightly more advanced but they wanted him to be a 6 due to the lack of them for the first team.

Even at St Mirren he wasn’t always the deep lying playmaker

But it’s more to do with me thinking gray likes Newell in that position so he can get on the ball. Think Kwon will slot into NMW position

[hibsbollah]

He has played there.

But he’s also played more advanced in an 8 where he gets about the park and presses.

Saw some comments about his time in Korea and how he was better slightly more advanced but they wanted him to be a 6 due to the lack of them for the first team.

Even at St Mirren he wasn’t always the deep lying playmaker.

He was definitely the deep lying guy against us at ER in the 0-3 debacle, where he was outstanding, and everything ive read describes him as a defensive midfielder.
If you look at bbc player ratings(which i admit aren’t definitive) they have him as the highest rated st mirren player in 4 games ive looked at before he went back to korea for rehab, which is a good sign even if its just a readers’ poll. Impressive.

[Unseen work]

He was definitely the deep lying guy against us at ER in the 0-3 debacle, where he was outstanding, and everything ive read describes him as a defensive midfielder.
If you look at bbc player ratings(which i admit aren’t definitive) they have him as the highest rated st mirren player in 4 games ive looked at before he went back to korea for rehab, which is a good sign even if its just a readers’ poll. Impressive.

I think him and Boyd Munce can both go deep but Boyd Munce being the one that gets on it and tries to dictate.

But he was very good against us, his reading of the game and ability to press and win the ball back was brilliant

[Viva_Palmeiras]

What a great point this is and perfectly describes how I feel some fans have missed the point, whether its about the constant search for superior players to replace the ‘duds’ we’ve got, or the defence of VAR and the over analysis of ref mistakes. Mistakes happen.

merci.

[JimBHibees]

I’m not convinced Kwon will play as a 6

Think we’ll still see Newell as the deepest of the midfield 3 with Kwon and another (hopefully McCowan) further forward and pressing from the front

Surely he will

[Crunchie]

We don't. Seriously stop trying to over analyse every goal.

Prior to the 3rd goal Ekpiteta played about 4 long balls over the top for boyle and Miller, we we're getting joy out of it.

For the goal it obviously wasn't on so he plays it back to the keeper expecting him to go long, he chucks it in.

Nothing to do with our style of play ffs just a howler.
Exactly how I see it, too many people have too much time on their hands analysing every move and goal. Gone are the days when the game was forgotten after the following Monday at work or school.:top marks

[TrinityHFC]

Exactly how I see it, too many people have too much time on their hands analysing every move and goal. Gone are the days when the game was forgotten after the following Monday at work or school.:top marks

Yep, it is one thing analyse something once you know what happened next as well - at the time the players have split second decisions to make and they don't have the same view of things we do in the stands or on the TV. I mean, I've seen several still frames of goals at the weekend being used. Like really?

[Donegal Hibby]

We haven't got players with the ability to play it out from the back, thought that had been shelved but must be playing to managers instructions, that worries me.

While Ekpiteta had enough time to pass it to O’Hora or play it down the flank , I think the start of it when you see Bursik give it to Rocky , it’s Rocky that’s wanting to play it down the flank first but that option is cut off by Celtic and he’s left with little option but to switch it to the other side .

I do think Celtics press against us during the game might have forced us at times to play out from the back and will generally cause teams to make errors it’s that good unfortunately.

[AlbertK86]

If we are playing it out to any of our defenders the only ones should be O’Hora or Obita as they are the only ones with the ability to do so.

To me if we are playing a back 3 Warren has to be in the middle, sitting slightly behind the other two. He can then alternate which side he goes to take the ball from Bursik.

Also think he can talk the other two through the game from there.

Ideally we need a ball playing LCH in as well for a back 3 or 4.

Think Marv will be okay at everything else so why put him under pressure like Rocky did.


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