Davie, Davie Gray

[theonlywayisup]

Hope the fans continue to support SDG like they did at the start of yesterday's match. He may or may not be the best person to take Hibernian FC forward. He will no doubt make good decisions and bad decisions. But the current problems at our club are much more deep rooted that the choice of manager.

We need to continue that support and make it clear that if anyone is to leave Hibernian FC it is the Gordons on Ben Kensell and not SDG.

[CL0762]

Tbh if he’s taken the job on knowing exactly the situation we’re in he’s just as culpable as the rest - I’m not having the “it’s no his fault” patter that some are doling out.

[Northernhibee]

Tbh if he’s taken the job on knowing exactly the situation we’re in he’s just as culpable as the rest - I’m not having the “it’s no his fault” patter that some are doling out.

Or he’s realised that someone has to do the job and is willing to give it his best shot. Give him a good chance.

[SHODAN]

Gordon and Kensell will look to shift the blame onto Gray at every opportunity; important that we resist the temptation.

It's evident that the manager is not the common denominator here. With Gordon and Kensell in charge we can't evaluate the actual performance of the manager.

[Northernhibee]

Gordon and Kensell will look to shift the blame onto Gray at every opportunity; important that we resist the temptation.

It's evident that the manager is not the common denominator here. With Gordon and Kensell in charge we can't evaluate the actual performance of the manager.

Yep. Look at the constants, not the variables.

[kentao]

Gordon and Kensell will look to shift the blame onto Gray at every opportunity; important that we resist the temptation.

It's evident that the manager is not the common denominator here. With Gordon and Kensell in charge we can't evaluate the actual performance of the manager.

I think they may have made a mistake making gray the fall guy, I'll never go against SDG so if results and investment in the team don't improve it won't be SDG the fans will want out it's the idiots who have gotten us into this position with mismanaging out club.

[HendoDelivered]

I think they may have made a mistake making gray the fall guy, I'll never go against SDG so if results and investment in the team don't improve it won't be SDG the fans will want out it's the idiots who have gotten us into this position with mismanaging out club.

This.

[Malonga's Cat]

David Gray has a free pass from me. Manager after manager but still we are in the same position. They've appointed a club legend in the hope it'll paper over the cracks. It might backfire as many won't be critical of a novice manager who is well thought of by the support. However, the criticism is rightfully going to land at the door of our Golden Quadrant of Leadership.

[Northernhibee]

I think they may have made a mistake making gray the fall guy, I'll never go against SDG so if results and investment in the team don't improve it won't be SDG the fans will want out it's the idiots who have gotten us into this position with mismanaging out club.

Unfortunately I can’t see that happening. There were enough people bumping their gums about SDG getting the job before he was announced and even when he was set piece coach under previous managers.

[theonlywayisup]

Tbh if he’s taken the job on knowing exactly the situation we’re in he’s just as culpable as the rest - I’m not having the “it’s no his fault” patter that some are doling out.

I don't think anyone is saying that he won't make mistakes, so is not faultless in the blame game. But I think the majority of the support know why we're in the position we are in. As stated by Northernhibee it's now time to "look at the constants, not the variables".

[Callum_62]

David Gray has a free pass from me. Manager after manager but still we are in the same position. They've appointed a club legend in the hope it'll paper over the cracks. It might backfire as many won't be critical of a novice manager who is well thought of by the support. However, the criticism is rightfully going to land at the door of our Golden Quadrant of Leadership.Why a free pass for Gray and not Monty?

Actually hate this can never be his fault patter

If we get another 2 in this week we will have 1/2 a new starting 11, coupled with the surely "any competent manager makes our team better from last year"

Why suddenly if we are pants again Gray is blameless?

Grays job is to get the best out of his players - kelty aand St Mirren is not a good start

Plenty time to improve but no way should anyone be absolving him totally of blame regardless



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[SHODAN]

Why a free pass for Gray and not Monty?

Actually hate this can never be his fault patter

If we get another 2 in this week we will have 1/2 a new starting 11, coupled with the surely "any competent manager makes our team better from last year"

Why suddenly if we are pants again Gray is blameless?

Grays job is to get the best out of his players - kelty aand St Mirren is not a good start

Plenty time to improve but no way should anyone be absolving him totally of blame regardless



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Because after Montgomery, Johnson and Maloney you realise it's not the manager that's the problem if they're all consistently *****.

Petrie was great at this too - ***** manager after ***** manager but it took years to point the finger at him.

[Nicho87]

I’ve said many times this so called boards biggest mistake was hiring SDG

Not because he’s not good enough

Purely because majority of fans will in the main back him and the time for change has come at board level

Hibs can lose the next 4 matches 3-0 and SDG won’t be abused by fans.

We’re only coming for the board

They will have shot themselves in the foot one last time hopefully

Golden quadrant my ****** arse

[SickBoy32]

I’ve said many times this so called boards biggest mistake was hiring SDG

Not because he’s not good enough

Purely because majority of fans will in the main back him and the time for change has come at board level

Hibs can lose the next 4 matches 3-0 and SDG won’t be abused by fans.

We’re only coming for the board

They will have shot themselves in the foot one last time hopefully

Golden quadrant my ****** arse

Spot on 👍

Staggering that some fans are trying to pin blame on Gray, it’s as clear as the nose on yer face where the fundamental issue lies.

[Callum_62]

I’ve said many times this so called boards biggest mistake was hiring SDG

Not because he’s not good enough


Hibs can lose the next 4 matches 3-0 and SDG won’t be abused by fans.



I expect that to not be true. Gray has somewhat a free pass the next 2 weeks against Celtic but he needs to get a team that are atleast unified and make it tricky for Celtic

Look they can still pump anyone regardless but he needs to get a league cup final gritty performance against them and atleast make them work

Losing against them 3-0 can easily happen though

Losing 3-0 at home to Dundee and away to Killie to go played 5
Won 0
Lost 5
GF 0
GA 15

And he should absolutely be questioned and criticized

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[dastardly8]

Gordon and Kensell will look to shift the blame onto Gray at every opportunity; important that we resist the temptation.

It's evident that the manager is not the common denominator here. With Gordon and Kensell in charge we can't evaluate the actual performance of the manager. Malky McKay was brought in to supposedly steady the ship with his supposed wealth of football knowledge , he has to oversee Davie Gray and must shoulder a large part of the blame

[Nicho87]

I expect that to not be true. Gray has somewhat a free pass the next 2 weeks against Celtic but he needs to get a team that are atleast unified and make it tricky for Celtic

Look they can still pump anyone regardless but he needs to get a league cup final gritty performance against them and atleast make them work

Losing against them 3-0 can easily happen though

Losing 3-0 at home to Dundee and away to Killie to go played 5
Won 0
Lost 5
GF 0
GA 15

And he should absolutely be questioned and criticized

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With respect I disagree

The board who promised summer of change with the millions in the bank has done no where near enough to back any manager

Trust the process when kensell has overseen numerous managers is the biggest joke of the lot

[B.H.F.C]

Gray will get a bit more patience but it won’t last indefinitely.

For me he’s already made some questionable decisions. He’s overseen a defeat to Kelty which he said was unacceptable and we’ve just been humped by St Mirren which he’s also called unacceptable. We need to cut out the unacceptable performances/results. Losing games is fine but not in the manner we did yesterday.

What concerns me is that he seems to be doing some of the same things that have cost other managers their jobs despite having been here to see it all first hand.

It was a bit of a weird one when he came over at the end of the game yesterday, there was very little reaction and that was definitely because it’s him. I completely agree that a lot of the fault is above Gray and they will likely get more of the grief, rightly so. But it’s a worrying start for him.

[Callum_62]

With respect I disagree

The board who promised summer of change with the millions in the bank has done no where near enough to back any manager

Trust the process when kensell has overseen numerous managers is the biggest joke of the lotEven with the same squad we should not be losing 3 zip to st Mirren, Dundee and Killie

As I've said elsewhere Gray is about to have 1/2 a new first team at his disposal - he needs to make good use of them

Edit - I think he will too btw - I'm not for criticizing Gray now, not at all but the "blameless regardless" chat I don't think is realistic



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[hibby rae]

Under the current regime there is an inevitability SDG will get sacked at some point and Mackay will be parachuted in.

God help us when that happens

[SickBoy32]

Even with the same squad we should not be losing 3 zip to st Mirren, Dundee and Killie

As I've said elsewhere Gray is about to have 1/2 a new first team at his disposal - he needs to make good use of them

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The bulk of that squad lost 0-4 to a ***** Aberdeen side at ER. This group of players are capable of getting beat 3-0 to anyone in the league frankly.

This half a new team - who’s this exactly? 2 goalies, 2 centre half’s and a tin man centre forward who will likely be out injured sooner rather than later.

You’re also assuming that the full ‘half a new team’ will be decent players. All the evidence under the Gordon’s suggests they’ll likely be poor players.

Get with the script mate, it’s the dafties in the boardroom needing chased - not the legend in the dugout.

[Ozyhibby]

Gray shouldn’t get a free pass but he has been hung out to dry.
Newell’s new contract and the starting line up v Kelty are his mistakes and he should be called out on that.
The board are what is really failing though.


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[Callum_62]

The bulk of that squad lost 0-4 to a ***** Aberdeen side at ER. This group of players are capable of getting beat 3-0 to anyone in the league frankly.

This half a new team - who’s this exactly? 2 goalies, 2 centre half’s and a tin man centre forward who will likely be out injured sooner rather than later.

You’re also assuming that the full ‘half a new team’ will be decent players. All the evidence under the Gordon’s suggests they’ll likely be poor players.

Get with the script mate, it’s the dafties in the boardroom needing chased - not the legend in the dugout.Keeper
2 new cente Half's
Hoilett
Myko

That's 5, plus

Likely Hodge and Bowie if rumors are true

This is what I don't get with some mental gymnastics

You are criticizing our new striker already - the one who Gray wanted to get in but absolving our head coach of blame if it doesn't work?

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[HendoDelivered]

We could have Pep, Klopp or Mourinho as manager and under the current regime even they’d be duds. The root cause of all problems is upstairs. Get them all out.

[SickBoy32]

Keeper
2 new cente Half's
Hoilett
Myko

That's 5, plus

Likely Hodge and Bowie if rumors are true

This is what I don't get with some mental gymnastics

You are criticizing our new striker already - the one who Gray wanted to get in but absolving our head coach of blame if it doesn't work?

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Again, given the precedent of who we have signed under the Gordon’s, **** knows the calibre of striker getting identified by the ‘recruitment committee’.

Maybe a striker who will play (half at best) of the season at a decent level quality wise, was deemed a better option.

I’ve not said free pass either. But he is a very inexperienced manager - which the Board were aware of when appointing him. How can we then blame the manager for making mistakes? Of course he’ll make mistakes.

The Board have made countless basic errors over the last 4years. Times up.

[Callum_62]

Again, given the precedent of who we have signed under the Gordon’s, **** knows the calibre of striker getting identified by the ‘recruitment committee’.

Maybe a striker who will play (half at best) of the season at a decent level quality wise, was deemed a better option.

I’ve not said free pass either. But he is a very inexperienced manager - which the Board were aware of when appointing him. How can we then blame the manager for making mistakes? Of course he’ll make mistakes.

The Board have made countless basic errors over the last 4years. Times up.Agree he will make mistakes and there needs to be some understanding of that

That doesn't extend to getting papped 3-0 every for the next 4 weeks though - that's just not setting up a team properly

Like I said it won't happen anyway (I hope)

Through the the QTR final and top of the league come then...[emoji51]

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[Pretty Boy]

It's a cliche but for me we are at the point of 'back the team, not the regime'.

The squad is what it is and the manager is who he is. It's not the players fault they aren't good enough to be challenging for 3rd or 4th; they are a group thrown together by guys who had/have no clue what they doing. Likewise the manager couldn't really turn down the chance to take the job and has to work with what he has. He has already been put in an embarrassing situation with the public boardroom spat and having to field questions relating to that and he's going to be put in a few more situations before the season is out. He already feels like the latest sacrificial lamb and I'm sure I won't be the only one saddened if it goes the same way as previous managers with real vitriol aimed at him; Gray deserves better.

The ire should be aimed at the common denominator in thsse struggles. Ben Kensell walked into the building when we were coming off a season finishing 3rd and reaching a semi final and a final. Aye there was a wee bit unrest about the style of football but that team needed a wee bit surgery and would have been good for another run at 3rd. Instead we have finished 8th, 5th and 8th. 2 semi finals and a final read sok but balance that with a 4th round exit in the SC and a group stage exit in the LC. The season before he arrived we signed Nisbet, Cadden, Irvine, Macey, Gogic and Magennis. The hit rate on that isn't bad. The following season we signed MacKay, Doyle Hayes, Mtchell, Tait, Mueller, Murphy, Melkerson, Hague, the other Mitchell and Johnson. You could maybe call Melkerson a hit because he made us a few quid, the rest are absolutel duds. We are onto our 5th manager under his tenure and he still has the sheer audacity and arrogance to demand we 'trust the process'.

This team is going to need all the support it can get and I'll be there doing my bit. Gray will get my support as well because he has a thankless task. The idiots running the show are fair game and any abuse that comes their way has been earned and then some.

[MWHIBBIES]

Gray shouldn’t get a free pass but he has been hung out to dry.
Newell’s new contract and the starting line up v Kelty are his mistakes and he should be called out on that.
The board are what is really failing though.


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Keeping his best midfielder isn't some dreadful error. Joe is going to be important this season. Many need replaced before him.

Kelty lineup was fine. You seen yesterday it's irrelevant who plays if forwards can't score sitters.

[jeffers]

Gray will get a bit more patience but it won’t last indefinitely.

For me he’s already made some questionable decisions. He’s overseen a defeat to Kelty which he said was unacceptable and we’ve just been humped by St Mirren which he’s also called unacceptable. We need to cut out the unacceptable performances/results. Losing games is fine but not in the manner we did yesterday.

What concerns me is that he seems to be doing some of the same things that have cost other managers their jobs despite having been here to see it all first hand.

It was a bit of a weird one when he came over at the end of the game yesterday, there was very little reaction and that was definitely because it’s him. I completely agree that a lot of the fault is above Gray and they will likely get more of the grief, rightly so. But it’s a worrying start for him.

Agree with all of that. I’m fully behind him and he’ll never get abuse from me, but it’s a big concern he’s relying on Newell and Campbell when we’ve all seen that story before. Albeit despite lots of midfielders he doesn’t really have much in the way of options.

He’ll get more time than other managers but it’s not a free pass and he needs to show, even with this squad, that he’s got what it takes otherwise he’ll end up going the same way as his predecessors. I’m sure he’s under no illusions about that.

[Ozyhibby]

Keeping his best midfielder isn't some dreadful error. Joe is going to be important this season. Many need replaced before him.

Kelty lineup was fine. You seen yesterday it's irrelevant who plays if forwards can't score sitters.

He was under contract for this season. Why did he need a new deal?


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[Exuberance1875]

The fact that Joe Newell is claimed to be our best midfielder is a serious issue in itself.

We shouldn’t have renewed his deal and we should be looking for better than a reformed failed left midfielder

[we are hibs]

Ive got sympathy with Gray - to an extent.


But he's not daft and he knew full well what he was taking on when he took the job. He knew he would have to deal with the 2 idiots above him. He knew he would have to deal with a bottom 6 squad. He knew the support was fractured and at breaking point.

Its basically a gamble that was worth taking for him. If it goes well then that's obviously great for both him and the club. If it goes tits up then he knows he's still a Hibs legend adored by the support and that he can quite easily point to those upstairs as being the problem.



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[eastmainsmsh]

Under the current regime there is an inevitability SDG will get sacked at some point and Mackay will be parachuted in.

God help us when that happens

Let's face it Mackay is only here as he is pals with Mcpherson

[Ozyhibby]

Ive got sympathy with Gray - to an extent.


But he's not daft and he knew full well what he was taking on when he took the job. He knew he would have to deal with the 2 idiots above him. He knew he would have to deal with a bottom 6 squad. He knew the support was fractured and at breaking point.

Its basically a gamble that was worth taking for him. If it goes well then that's obviously great for both him and the club. If it goes tits up then he knows he's still a Hibs legend adored by the support and that he can quite easily point to those upstairs as being the problem.



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Is it just the two idiots above him? We have Mackay and Marshall now as well.
Are performance levels improving under the new performance director?


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[CL0762]

Keeping his best midfielder isn't some dreadful error. Joe is going to be important this season. Many need replaced before him.

Kelty lineup was fine. You seen yesterday it's irrelevant who plays if forwards can't score sitters.

You can’t keep claiming this “best midfielder” line whenever he gets criticised.

Joe Newell wouldn’t even make the bench at Aberdeen or Hearts yet he’s our “best midfielder”.

He’s been woeful for years and been a major part of why our midfield has consistently let us down.

“Aye but we finished 3rd with him in midfield”.

[Exuberance1875]

You can’t keep claiming this “best midfielder” line whenever he gets criticised.

Joe Newell wouldn’t even make the bench at Aberdeen or Hearts yet he’s our “best midfielder”.

He’s been woeful for years and been a major part of why our midfield has consistently let us down.

“Aye but we finished 3rd with him in midfield”.

Spot on

[marinello59]

Is it just the two idiots above him? We have Mackay and Marshall now as well.
Are performance levels improving under the new performance director?


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A wee bit of empire building going on.

[Alfred E Newman]

Keeping his best midfielder isn't some dreadful error. Joe is going to be important this season. Many need replaced before him.

Kelty lineup was fine. You seen yesterday it's irrelevant who plays if forwards can't score sitters.

The fact that Joe is our best midfielder is one of the main problems.

[MWHIBBIES]

He was under contract for this season. Why did he need a new deal?


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So he remained here next season id imagine.

If Gray wanted him to stay, then him getting a new deal is correct. You can't pick and chose when you think the manager should be backed by the club.

[MWHIBBIES]

The fact that Joe is our best midfielder is one of the main problems.

Yes. We should be moving the other 7 or 8 out asap.

[The Captain....]

Under the current regime there is an inevitability SDG will get sacked at some point and Mackay will be parachuted in.

God help us when that happens

A chilling, but terrifyingly possible prediction.

[truehibernian]

You can’t keep claiming this “best midfielder” line whenever he gets criticised.

Joe Newell wouldn’t even make the bench at Aberdeen or Hearts yet he’s our “best midfielder”.

He’s been woeful for years and been a major part of why our midfield has consistently let us down.

“Aye but we finished 3rd with him in midfield”.

If any fan was asked to honestly pick their top 5 moments of John McGinn and Joe Newell’s time at Hibs I could only seriously pick the Luzern game (second half) for Joe’s “highlight”. There’s no defining moments in big games I could hang my hat on and say “he changed the game”. Whereas you could pick any number between John’s euro goal in Greece, his semi final goal at Tynie, his derby performance in the 3-1 game, his double at Parkhead, his screamer at Ibrox, his performance v Dundee Utd at ER, the Cup Final, the list goes on and on.

That’s how far we’ve fallen !!

[Nicho87]

If any fan was asked to honestly pick their top 5 moments of John McGinn and Joe Newell’s time at Hibs I could only seriously pick the Luzern game (second half) for Joe’s “highlight”. There’s no defining moments in big games I could hang my hat on and say “he changed the game”. Whereas you could pick any number between John’s euro goal in Greece, his semi final goal at Tynie, his derby performance in the 3-1 game, his double at Parkhead, his screamer at Ibrox, his performance v Dundee Utd at ER, the Cup Final, the list goes on and on.

That’s how far we’ve fallen !!

I always loved the winner at tynie v saints on the league cup

[MikeyS]

If any fan was asked to honestly pick their top 5 moments of John McGinn and Joe Newell’s time at Hibs I could only seriously pick the Luzern game (second half) for Joe’s “highlight”. There’s no defining moments in big games I could hang my hat on and say “he changed the game”. Whereas you could pick any number between John’s euro goal in Greece, his semi final goal at Tynie, his derby performance in the 3-1 game, his double at Parkhead, his screamer at Ibrox, his performance v Dundee Utd at ER, the Cup Final, the list goes on and on.

That’s how far we’ve fallen !!

Joe Newell doesn't even compare alongside McGeough, Fyvie, Henderson or Allan never mind John McGinn!

I'd rate Liam Craig's Hibs career higher than Joe Newells actually.

[hibby rae]

Let's face it Mackay is only here as he is pals with Mcpherson

100% - Wonder what the odds were the 'best man for the job' was so close to the club hierarchy already?

[McGruber]

Gray should be subject to the exact same scrutiny and criticism as any other manager. There was some good in the league cup with result and performance but the Kelty result coupled with the result and performance at St Mirren isn't a good start for him. Like any other manager aswell though, he should be afforded a bit of grace at the start, a bit honeymoon period.
Think the worst thing from yesterday was in that period where we collapsed, especially the 3rd goal, there was no cohesion or shape in the team and looked like nobody knew what they were supposed to be doing. That is something where you ask yourself, 'who's coaching this mob'? Yes, some players are well below standard but good coaching at the very least gets a good shape and structure to the team in and out of possession. No doubt yesterday was a disaster but Gray is one game in so prepared to give it time. He will come under fire if it doesn't improve. Like Sauzee, what's gone before won't matter

[truehibernian]

Joe Newell doesn't even compare alongside McGeough, Fyvie, Henderson or Allan never mind John McGinn!

I'd rate Liam Craig's Hibs career higher than Joe Newells actually.

On that note, Liam scored a derby winner, quality goal in the 4-0 v The Rangers, beautiful assist for Jason’s opener too, Rugby Park double - decent player in a shocker of a side the year we went down - you’ve further cemented my point 😃

[Exuberance1875]

Joe Newell doesn't even compare alongside McGeough, Fyvie, Henderson or Allan never mind John McGinn!

I'd rate Liam Craig's Hibs career higher than Joe Newells actually.

100% Liam Craig is a better player than Joe Newell

[theonlywayisup]

Joe Newell doesn't even compare alongside McGeough, Fyvie, Henderson or Allan never mind John McGinn!

I'd rate Liam Craig's Hibs career higher than Joe Newells actually.

I had a laugh at that initially, but sadly you are correct IMO.

I've stated that Joe Newell is everything that is wrong with Hibs in recent seasons. Far too slow to move the ball forward when we really need some energy and creativity in the midfield area, especially from our Captain and leader on the pitch. But no doubt someone will be along stating he's our best midfielder, which he is, but still no-where near good enough.

[hibby rae]

On that note, Liam scored a derby winner, quality goal in the 4-0 v The Rangers, beautiful assist for Jason’s opener too, Rugby Park double - decent player in a shocker of a side the year we went down - you’ve further cemented my point 😃

Sh*t it when it mattered in the penalty shoot-out against Hamilton though. Maybe a better player, but not a better captain in my book.

[Ozyhibby]

So he remained here next season id imagine.

If Gray wanted him to stay, then him getting a new deal is correct. You can't pick and chose when you think the manager should be backed by the club.

Which is why I’m criticising Gray for giving him a new deal. That’s 100% on him.
I’m not blaming Newell for taking it. He has won the lottery at Hibs.


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[keep the faith]

100% Liam Craig is a better player than Joe Newell

This place is wild right now....

[MikeyS]

I had a laugh at that initially, but sadly you are correct IMO.

I've stated that Joe Newell is everything that is wrong with Hibs in recent seasons. Far too slow to move the ball forward when we really need some energy and creativity in the midfield area, especially from our Captain and leader on the pitch. But no doubt someone will be along stating he's our best midfielder, which he is, but still no-where near good enough.

The phrase regurgitated last year was "he's the least of our problems" but I massively disagree with that. How can the player that mostly dictates the tempo of the team not be the problem!

[MWHIBBIES]

100% Liam Craig is a better player than Joe Newell

:faf:

Place is gone.

[BoomtownHibees]

Sh*t it when it mattered in the penalty shoot-out against Hamilton though. Maybe a better player, but not a better captain in my book.

JN should never be a Hibs captain imo

[MWHIBBIES]

I had a laugh at that initially, but sadly you are correct IMO.

I've stated that Joe Newell is everything that is wrong with Hibs in recent seasons. Far too slow to move the ball forward when we really need some energy and creativity in the midfield area, especially from our Captain and leader on the pitch. But no doubt someone will be along stating he's our best midfielder, which he is, but still no-where near good enough.

He is not correct. Liam Craig got relegated and finished 2nd in the championship with Hibs.

Joe finished 3rd, 5th and reached a few cup finals. His Hibs career is miles ahead of Liam Craig :faf:

If he is our best midfielder, he is not everything wrong with hibs. The other midfielders are worse. Bin them.

[hibsbollah]

100% Liam Craig is a better player than Joe Newell

speechless

[The Modfather]

He is not correct. Liam Craig got relegated and finished 2nd in the championship with Hibs.

Joe finished 3rd, 5th and reached a few cup finals. His Hibs career is miles ahead of Liam Craig :faf:

If he is our best midfielder, he is not everything wrong with hibs. The other midfielders are worse. Bin them.

He’s not our best midfielder though. That’s just a fairly meaningless phrase thrown out, like “least of our problems”, “he will be better beside better players” or “playing midfield himself”. Remember how poor our defence was last season yet Hanlon was held up as our best defender. It’s meaningless.

He’s just one of a scrum of midfielders we have that’s better on paper than reality. Him being our best midfielder is usually on the back of games like yesterday and it being argued that he was marginally less poor than others.

[truehibernian]

He is not correct. Liam Craig got relegated and finished 2nd in the championship with Hibs.

Joe finished 3rd, 5th and reached a few cup finals. His Hibs career is miles ahead of Liam Craig :faf:

If he is our best midfielder, he is not everything wrong with hibs. The other midfielders are worse. Bin them.

Liam’s won both domestic cups, led Saints to top 3 and Europe - that top trumps 3rd and 5th in any league. He’s had the more successful career in Scotland. The argument about ability and respective Hibs careers I concede is subjective and personally Joe is the better footballer but Liam’s had the more successful career thus far in Scottish football

Joe's got 3 seasons to correct that. Let’s see if he wins something.

[Exuberance1875]

Liam Craig has achieved more in Scottish football than Joe Newell ever will. These are the facts.

[H18S NX]

I thought(and i still hope) that SDG would bring some steel into this Hibs team,but yesterday after we loose the first goal we collapsed,this really needs sorting out,I hope the board are watching.

[Exuberance1875]

Liam’s won both domestic cups, led Saints to top 3 and Europe - that top trumps 3rd and 5th in any league. He’s had the more successful career in Scotland. The argument about ability and respective Hibs careers I concede is subjective and personally Joe is the better footballer but Liam’s had the more successful career thus far in Scottish football

Joe's got 3 seasons to correct that. Let’s see if he wins something.

Spot on. Liam Craig could do exactly what Joe Newell does in this Hibs midfield

[hibsbollah]

Liam Craig has achieved more in Scottish football than Joe Newell ever will. These are the facts.

He certainly achieved relegation, and achieved the title of Mr. Most Looking Like He Couldnt Care Less About It Either.

Captain relegation. Cant stand him.

[Exuberance1875]

He is not correct. Liam Craig got relegated and finished 2nd in the championship with Hibs.

Joe finished 3rd, 5th and reached a few cup finals. His Hibs career is miles ahead of Liam Craig :faf:

If he is our best midfielder, he is not everything wrong with hibs. The other midfielders are worse. Bin them.

Liam Craig finished his first season at Hibs with 9 goals in a dreadful side, Joe Newell has 10 goals in total going into his 5th season with us

[B.H.F.C]

I thought(and i still hope) that SDG would bring some steel into this Hibs team,but yesterday after we loose the first goal we collapsed,this really needs sorting out,I hope the board are watching.

That really concerned me. I thought he’d have them running through a brick wall for us and him. Yesterday, at points, it looked like we could hardly run full stop.

Severe lack of character in that team when something goes against them. St Mirren players were celebrating blocking shots when they were 3-0 up. Marcus Fraser literally dragged one of their players back on to his feet to defend a corner in the last few minutes. Contrast that to us.

[MWHIBBIES]

Liam Craig has achieved more in Scottish football than Joe Newell ever will. These are the facts.

Super logic. Although it does mean Chris Dagnall was a better Hibs player than Franck Sauzee, Scott Brown the best player in Scottish history, and Joe Baker a poor mans Jason Cummings.

Little bit more to things isn't there?

[MWHIBBIES]

Liam Craig finished his first season at Hibs with 9 goals in a dreadful side, Joe Newell has 10 goals in total going into his 5th season with us

Great. Totally different players, though. Dumb comparison.

[Exuberance1875]

Great. Totally different players, though. Dumb comparison.

Both play a very similar role, you can choose to pick and choose what stats you want to look at, if you like.

Listen this is just my opinion, but honestly you continue to obnoxiously call simple comparisons dumb all you like. I’ve seen you post frequently on here and rarely does anyone have an open friendly discussion with you.

[Chorley Hibee]

That really concerned me. I thought he’d have them running through a brick wall for us and him. Yesterday, at points, it looked like we could hardly run full stop.

Severe lack of character in that team when something goes against them. St Mirren players were celebrating blocking shots when they were 3-0 up. Marcus Fraser literally dragged one of their players back on to his feet to defend a corner in the last few minutes. Contrast that to us.

Noticed that too.

Pride in the jersey and the team as a collective and a willingness, not just to win, but to commit everything until the final minute.

Then you see us.

Rarely seen a more insipid performance on the opening day.

[kentao]

Comparison wise both Craig and Newell are pish and shouldn't be anywhere near our club never mind the captain of it. Joe Newell of the Luzern match is the type of player we should be aiming for unfortunately we cant play Aston Villa Every 2nd week to get that type of motivation.

[CL0762]

He is not correct. Liam Craig got relegated and finished 2nd in the championship with Hibs.

Joe finished 3rd, 5th and reached a few cup finals. His Hibs career is miles ahead of Liam Craig :faf:

If he is our best midfielder, he is not everything wrong with hibs. The other midfielders are worse. Bin them.

Surely there has to be rules around players having their phone during training?

Only explanation I can have for this white knighting level of posting is you are in fact Joe Newell himself.

[Saint Hibee]

Surely there has to be rules around players having their phone during training?

Only explanation I can have for this white knighting level of posting is you are in fact Joe Newell himself.

He's not Joe Newell, he's Declan Rice. :greengrin

[theonlywayisup]

Comparison wise both Craig and Newell are pish and shouldn't be anywhere near our club never mind the captain of it. Joe Newell of the Luzern match is the type of player we should be aiming for unfortunately we cant play Aston Villa Every 2nd week to get that type of motivation.

Suppose that's why I think the comparison is interesting. Liam Craig is well down my list of "great Hibernian FC midfielders". The fact that someone has posted the idea that they rather have him than Joe Newell and that view is shared my many who have responded to the post tells you a lot about the standing of Joe Newell amongst some Hibs fans.

We should never have given Super Joe a contract extension, nor made him Captain. We should have taken the opportunity to get a whole new midfield engine in, but looks like we're stuck with him for another few seasons. I really hope we get better players in around him, to test this hypothesis that he will excel with better players around him. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I have my doubts.

[theonlywayisup]

Surely there has to be rules around players having their phone during training?

Only explanation I can have for this white knighting level of posting is you are in fact Joe Newell himself.

Funny, I've wondered that too.

[MWHIBBIES]

Both play a very similar role, you can choose to pick and choose what stats you want to look at, if you like.

Listen this is just my opinion, but honestly you continue to obnoxiously call simple comparisons dumb all you like. I’ve seen you post frequently on here and rarely does anyone have an open friendly discussion with you.

They did not play similar roles at all. Pointless to read on after that, sorry.

[Exuberance1875]

They did not play similar roles at all. Pointless to read on after that, sorry.

Explain what you think the differences are?

There we go again, rudest poster on here

[The Tubs]

Noticed that too.

Pride in the jersey and the team as a collective and a willingness, not just to win, but to commit everything until the final minute.

Then you see us.

Rarely seen a more insipid performance on the opening day.

That's what disappointed me the most too. Trying to be optimistic, it's surely not going to be lost on the management either. Though, as has been mentioned, making Newell the captain doesn't give off the right vibes about fixing it.

[eastmainsmsh]

100% - Wonder what the odds were the 'best man for the job' was so close to the club hierarchy already?

If it was between Gray and Nid then Nid was spot on about concerns for funding for transfers I hope Gray does well but every other team has added quality and we have guys like Ekpiteta and OHora who were let go by League 1 Blackpool and Mk Dons league 2 its alarming really

[1875M]

I would never turn on DG, even if results go bad. I have too much respect for him and what he’s given to this club. However, that does not mean he gets a free pass. If we’re struggling in 3/4 months, of course you ask questions. However, the bigger question you must ask is - is it the manager? Ross, Maloney, Johnson, Montgomery and now Gray.

I believe we have 2 main issues:
1) We have incompetent people running the club.
2) Our recruitment (that links to point 1)

I have absolutely no doubt that Gray is a decent coach. However, with the circus upstairs, I truly believe that any manager would struggle in the current circumstances.

We have the owner identifying players because he’s done a ‘talent identification course’. Ask yourself - would any other club who’s pushing for 3rd/4th in this league have that?

No, they wouldn’t. Hearts had Joe Savage in, someone who had good experience in England and is clearly a proper football guy.

Until we get proper football people in upstairs, who are good at their jobs and have good experience, i truly believe that we will continue going the way we are.

Just my thoughts.

[Hibiza]

I thought(and i still hope) that SDG would bring some steel into this Hibs team,but yesterday after we loose the first goal we collapsed,this really needs sorting out,I hope the board are watching.

Watching or not they don't recognise good / bad performances, unfortunately

[MWHIBBIES]

Explain what you think the differences are?

There we go again, rudest poster on here

"Midfield" encompasses many different roles. Craig often played behind a striker and took penalties.

[Swedish hibee]

He's been at the club the past few years watching the dross we've been watching- and he don't do all he can to keep Maolida. His biggest mistake, and one that will cost him his job.

[Unseen work]

He's been at the club the past few years watching the dross we've been watching- and he don't do all he can to keep Maolida. His biggest mistake, and one that will cost him his job.

How do you know he never done all he could to keep Maolida?

I thought it seemed obvious we had no chance of keeping him

[Unseen work]

I rewatched the game today as apparently I like torturing myself.

First half was how I expected the game to go. We actually played pretty well and were the better team imo, huge chance for Vente who appears to be going through a spell similar to when Doidge first joined where nothing was falling for him.

But we were using our width well and winning the ball back by putting them under pressure.

The thing I was surprised at was how little we switched play with a cross field pass, something we done loads of in pre season. Unsure if it was how st Mirren pressed us, their shape or instruction from SDG not to do it.

Second half st Mirren looked more confident after the goal but the whole game was decided in a 8 minute spell.

Boyle missed a huge chance and then they go and score 2 cheap cheap goals within minutes.

Ekpiteta at fault with a slack pass and then the 3rd I thought O’Hora could have closed the man on the ball down more as he went wide.

I don’t think it was a 3-0 game and it was more a 8 minute spell that ruined all chance for us which isn’t good enough and the boys need to be better

I actually thought Ekpiteta and O’Hora had good games and dealt with the physical st Mirren strikers really well. Miller was another I thought done well, especially in the first half with how positive he was being. Obita, with the exception of a brain fart in the second half which lead to them hitting the post I also think done well.

Centre mid I thought we looked Newell looked a bit isolated at times. Dont think NMW or Campbell done enough throughout the game and we lacked creativity. Boyle had a quiet game too but actually thought young Rudi done well when he got the ball.

Actually thought Amos looked good and sharp when he came on however the game was done the majority of the time.

But it’s one game, let’s not judge and criticise the managers and players due to the failures of the previous regimes. I know a large portion of them were here for that too though.

But please let’s just get behind SDG and the players and support them them, doing anything else at the moment isn’t going to help.

The window is still open and by the sounds of it we’ll be having another 3+ players coming in

[A Hi-Bee]

"Midfield" encompasses many different roles. Craig often played behind a striker and took penalties.

I would rather have Benny Brazil in my team, both are imposter midfield players my arse.
:thumbsup:

[SHODAN]

He's been at the club the past few years watching the dross we've been watching- and he don't do all he can to keep Maolida. His biggest mistake, and one that will cost him his job.

Gray: Hi Ben can we get Maolida back?

Kensell: (in the middle of writing prompts into ChatGPT to generate his latest LinkedIn seminar) Uhh I dunno mate not sure if we have the money, hold on I'll get us a Golden Quadrant meeting up.

(Gordon, McPherson, MacKay and Foley appear on the screen)

Kensell: All right guys got Davers here wanting to see if we can get Mizzy back for the season! Proper striker init. Pure tekkers! What's your thoughts?

McPherson: I hear that young upcoming youngster Ben Kensell is really good! You should sign him. I think do whatever Ben says.

Foley: (gestures widely but no sound is heard)

Kensell: All right crackin'! What you think Ian?

Gordon:

Kensell: Ian, you okay there?

Gordon: Sorry there Ben I was just on Soccer Manager 2024. Gee Daverino I don't think we can justify the money on a player who only has a 13 for finishing and 12 for pace at that price. Why don't we try Johan McNogoals on loan from Brighton? He's only 17 with a potential of four stars in the latest patch AND according to the Editor his finishing could go all the way up to 14 within five years! Awesome prospect! I've sent over the cash money right now. Go wild, Ben!

Gray: Is it ok if we get a player who has scored goals already guys

Foley: (typing in chat) CAN YOU UN-MUTE ME PLEASE

Kensell: Would love to help you there Billy Boy Lad but I don't know how to do that I'm afraid

McPherson: Great line delivery, Ben!

Foley: (typing) I WILL LITERALLY WIRE YOU £1 MILLION NOW FOR THIS GUY IF YOU GIVE ME ANY CREATIVE CONTROL

Gordon: Aw no Hearts have outbid me for him in the game again :(

MacKay: [REDACTED]

Gray: Vente it is

[He's here!]

Liam’s won both domestic cups, led Saints to top 3 and Europe - that top trumps 3rd and 5th in any league. He’s had the more successful career in Scotland. The argument about ability and respective Hibs careers I concede is subjective and personally Joe is the better footballer but Liam’s had the more successful career thus far in Scottish football

Joe's got 3 seasons to correct that. Let’s see if he wins something.

I thought Craig was a decent player and a good signing at the time. He came into a very average Hibs team, one that became significantly worse under Butcher. In an improving Hibs team under Stubbs he played well.

I've never really seen what Newell brings to the table. Nice guy, occasional OK game. I doubt any other Scottish top flight team would be interested in him.

Craig has had a more successful career hands down.

[GreenCastle]

Wasn’t a fan of Craig at Hibs and I’ve made my feelings clear that I don’t think Hibs will progress until Newell isn’t starting.

Giving him a new deal was madness and another mistake. Hes sitting comfortably on a nice contract which he knows he has for next few years. Complete comfort zone.

I have actually noticed since Craig has come in he’s starting to play like him - sitting deeper - lots of pointing - bits of link up play but on the whole totally ineffective and getting in the way of the centre backs. Newell isn’t a CDM - he can’t tackle and if we keep playing him there it’s going to hurt us.

[Is It On....]

I would never turn on DG, even if results go bad. I have too much respect for him and what he’s given to this club. However, that does not mean he gets a free pass. If we’re struggling in 3/4 months, of course you ask questions. However, the bigger question you must ask is - is it the manager? Ross, Maloney, Johnson, Montgomery and now Gray.

I believe we have 2 main issues:
1) We have incompetent people running the club.
2) Our recruitment (that links to point 1)

I have absolutely no doubt that Gray is a decent coach. However, with the circus upstairs, I truly believe that any manager would struggle in the current circumstances.

We have the owner identifying players because he’s done a ‘talent identification course’. Ask yourself - would any other club who’s pushing for 3rd/4th in this league have that?

No, they wouldn’t. Hearts had Joe Savage in, someone who had good experience in England and is clearly a proper football guy.

Until we get proper football people in upstairs, who are good at their jobs and have good experience, i truly believe that we will continue going the way we are.

Just my thoughts.

Ross - inherited from previous owner and, like Mathie, was fired at the first available opportunity
Maloney - huge gamble on someone with no managerial experience that didn't work out
Johnson - shouldn't have been a surprise as he delivered results in line with his previous track record
Montgomery - looked good on paper with a 50% win ratio at his previous club but unfortunately it didn't work out.
David Gray - another gamble on someone with no managerial track record (other than caretaker roles)


In respect of Ben Kensell's "trust the process" remark, Maolida (albeit on loan) was a brilliant winter signing that in my opinion stopped us getting dragged into a relegation battle. However, in terms of both managerial and player recruitment, that has been the exception rather than the rule over the last few years and I find it really difficult to trust a "process" that has burned through £millions and resulted in a worse team.

[theonlywayisup]

Ross - inherited from previous owner and, like Mathie, was fired at the first available opportunity Maloney - huge gamble on someone with no managerial experience that didn't work out Johnson - shouldn't have been a surprise as he delivered results in line with his previous track recordMontgomery - looked good on paper with a 50% win ratio at his previous club but unfortunately it didn't work out.Gray - another gamble on someone with no managerial track record (other than caretaker roles)In respect of Ben Kensell's "trust the process" remark, Moalida (albeit on loan) was a brilliant winter signing that in my opinion stopped us getting dragged into a relegation battle. However, in terms of both managerial and player recruitment, that has been the exception rather than the rule over the last few years and I find it really difficult to trust a "process" that has burned through £millions and resulted in a worse team.I've said on a few occasions that replacing Jack Ross with an inexperienced manager was bad, but to then support Maloney by selling our best player (Boyle who was our only goal threat) and moving on Gogic, Hallberg and Murphy and replacing them with a range of players who had virtually no top flight experience was the biggest mistake of all. That should have been an early warning to all of what was about to come. The opposition sing "The Hibees are falling apart". You can't really argue that we're not.

[theonlywayisup]

Think he speaks very well in this Sky Sports interview.

SDG :not worth:not worth:not worth

https://www.skysports.com/football/video/12606/13193555/hibernian-david-gray-looking-forward-to-tough-celtic-test-more-transfers-to-come