The rise of Fascism

[Stairway 2 7]

Next Westminster election is 5 years away, why bother with polls that far in advance?

Polls are ran continuously to show the state of the nation, look at trends or how current events or policy change move the dial. If we only did it the months before the election we wouldn't know reform are growing and it could be too late to educate or counter.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/sep/02/the-big-idea-why-were-getting-the-immigration-debate-all-wrong
Decent article on immigration. It’s inevitable and we need it but we need to manage it properly or eventually people will turn to someone like Farage to do it.


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[Keith_M]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/sep/02/the-big-idea-why-were-getting-the-immigration-debate-all-wrong
Decent article on immigration. It’s inevitable and we need it but we need to manage it properly or eventually people will turn to someone like Farage to do it.


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It's a decent article, though I disagree with the notion of promoting religiously segregated schooling.

If we want to encourage 'integration', then that needs to start at an early age.

[Stairway 2 7]

Seen some terrible videos of non whites being abused in Ireland recently, Conor Mcgregor turning into a bit of a Tommy Robinson stoking hatred too.

Seems **** like targeting asylum hotels too, why can't people show some compassion

https://x.com/lil_doza/status/1829999959401230615

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/sep/02/the-big-idea-why-were-getting-the-immigration-debate-all-wrong
Decent article on immigration. It’s inevitable and we need it but we need to manage it properly or eventually people will turn to someone like Farage to do it.


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"Immigration as currently configured increases inequalities
in the UK because it causes a massive redistribution
of wealth from those who compete with immigrants in the
labour market (who tend to be poor, and suffer lower
wages), to those who employ them (who tend to be rich,
and enjoy lower costs and bigger profits). This effect is
well documented in the US. In addition, in the UK, with
its tight property market, those who win are those who
already own property, particularly those who rent it out;
and those who lose are those who rent their homes and
those trying to get on the property ladder. Again, this is
generally a redistribution of wealth from poor to rich".

https://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/cs23.pdf

[Pretty Boy]

The issue around falling fertility rate and it's impact on 'native' populations is one that always interests me.

On the one hand it is something of a success story. Increased economic affluence coupled with the development of medicine and vaccination throughout the 20th century has seen a huge drop off in infant mortality. At the most simplistic level the rate of infant mortality has dropped off so much that the need to have lots of children 'just in case' has been negated. You can then add in widespread access to contraception, safe and legal abortion and a huge increase in women in work as other reasons. On the flip side we are increasingly a society that makes having children seem exceptionally unattractive and many young people increasingly see not having children as an economic choice. It often feels there is little desire to reverse this. Childcare is expensive and ultimately many women (and men) are now faced with the stark choice of career and crippling childcare costs or sacrifice several years of their career to cut down to part time work or stay home altogether. Rather than want to support people to have more, or indeed any, children it seems a majority of the public want to continue to put financial barriers in place. 60% want the 2 child benefit cap to remain in place and that goes as high as 70% in those 50+ (maybe they just really hate their own children and grandchildren?). Even more concerning is that 26% of people support scrapping child benefit altogether.

I think that all just falls into a wider issue around the economic reality of the world right now. The economic reality is such that it is impacting on people's decisions on whether to have children. Immigration will take up some of the slack but in the medium to long term the declining fertility rate in the Middle East, North and Sub Saharan Africa also has to be considered, albeit the latter is happening at a far slower rate than the developed world. Firstly it has to be acknowledged this steady source of people will slow and eventually dry up; secondly is it morally right to hoover up both skilled and unskilled workers from other countries when they will also be encountering people and skills shortages in the longer term?

The tragedy of the rise of right wing extremism is that people with so much more in common than that which divides them are being dragged in different directions. None (or maybe very few) of the challenges facing the current or future generations are race specific; it's largely a battle of class or rather economic circumstance as it has always been. So many issues are symptomatic of a failed economic and political order that is in the process of devouring itself. I would wager that if you took a couple of young lads drawn to different elements of extremism, say religious and fascism, and asked them what their concerns were then the answers would be broadly similar. Did anyone look at the manifestos in the recent election and see anything that looked like providing answers to the long term issues plaguing societies? 'Get the Tories out' seemed the main message from 2 or 3 of the parties and as much as I can get behind that I wanted a bit more and frankly we need a whole lot more. For as long as people remain disenfranchised, for as long as the current generations become poorer than those which preceded them, for as long as people are locked out the housing market, for as long as jobs pay less than what people need to meet their basic needs, for as long as people have little to spend on luxuries, for as long as public services remain in terminal decline and for as long as established parties fail to provide anything resembling answers then there will be opportunists there to masquerade as the solution. The fact they are the status quo, the establishment or whatever else is largely irrelevant.

[cabbageandribs1875]

ouch..

Thomas Birley

Birley has been jailed for nine years for taking part in a riot in Rotherham on 4 August – the highest prison sentence handed out by judges following widespread violence and rioting.
He was part of a group which helped smash windows at the Holiday Inn Express in Manvers and added wood to a fire against the building, which housed asylum seekers.
Birley, 27, of Swinton, Rotherham, previously pleaded guilty to a charge of arson with intent to endanger life, violent disorder, and possessing an offensive weapon.
At Sheffield Crown Court, the Recorder of Sheffield Judge Jeremy Richardson KC said: “You are unquestionably a dangerous offender.”
His sentence is nine years in prison, with a five-year extension on licence.


Birley has highly relevant previous convictions, including criminal damage, attacking emergency workers, and racially aggravated harassment, the court hears.
The 27-year-old, of Swinton, had previously been sentenced for some of those offences, the court is told.
A pre-sentence report had views which “raised alarm” with a probation officer, the judge says.
There were hints of a “white supremacist mindset”, Judge Richardson adds.

[superfurryhibby]

"Without doubt racism was a significant factor in the recent riots. It is also clear the far-right played a role in advance, both online and on the ground, stoking hate and then exploiting the situation when trouble occurred. Race and racism are factors in these riots as they are in Trumpism or Brexit. To develop a successful strategy to defeat racists and the far-right in our communities we need to disentangle the racism from the other causes.

And, as with Trumpism and Brexit, there are other causes. Neoliberalism, housing crisis, Victorian levels of inequality, the abandonment of the working class by the political class and the left, austerity, the destruction of working class institutions, and a form of globalisation which ensures all the gain goes to the elites and all the pain to the poorest communities, to list just a few off the top of my head. If you live in working class communities these issues are not the concerns of racist people. They are the concerns of rational people. It is not a coincidence that it was in some of the poorest areas of England that riots took place. These riots were not caused by social media posts. These riots were caused by 40 years of neglect and greed".

https://solidaritynotcharity.substack.com/p/ghost-towns

[marinello59]

Yip. Just stop oil protester get higher sentences than people trying to burn down hotels full of people.


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The ringleader got 9 years today compared to sentences of 4 and in one case 5 years for the just stop oil protesters. 🪧

[Ozyhibby]

The ringleader got 9 years today compared to sentences of 4 and in one case 5 years for the just stop oil protesters. 🪧

Given his previous convictions and the the fact he tried to burn people alive it still seems he was treated with more leniency than the Just stop oil people who wanted to cause a bit of traffic disruption?
Maybe that’s just me?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Given his previous convictions and the the fact he tried to burn people alive it still seems he was treated with more leniency than the Just stop oil people who wanted to cause a bit of traffic disruption?
Maybe that’s just me?


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People get charged in line with charging guidelines in place. If you changed that because you didn't like a person's politics ect would be an affront to the law. We could change the law post but all rioters should have been charged in line with guidance.

I think people have been pretty universal in thinking the rioters were charged fast and in huge numbers. Loads of multi year sentences stopped the rioting pretty effectively

[Ozyhibby]

People get charged in line with charging guidelines in place. If you changed that because you didn't like a person's politics ect would be an affront to the law. We could change the law post but all rioters should have been charged in line with guidance.

I think people have been pretty universal in thinking the rioters were charged fast and in huge numbers. Loads of multi year sentences stopped the rioting pretty effectively

The sentencing guidelines for the Just stop oil protesters seem unduly harsh then.


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[JimBHibees]

People get charged in line with charging guidelines in place. If you changed that because you didn't like a person's politics ect would be an affront to the law. We could change the law post but all rioters should have been charged in line with guidance.

I think people have been pretty universal in thinking the rioters were charged fast and in huge numbers. Loads of multi year sentences stopped the rioting pretty effectively

On the face of it his sentence is very short. The possible tariff on what he was charged for will be potentially much higher especially given his previous.

[Stairway 2 7]

On the face of it his sentence is very short. The possible tariff on what he was charged for will be potentially much higher especially given his previous.

Seems he got at the high end with no physical injuries or much property damage. 9 years and a 14 year licence. Good he deserves all he got

https://wheldonlaw.co.uk/types-of-arson-charges-and-how-sentences-are-determined-according-to-uk-law/

[Ozyhibby]

Seems he got at the high end with no physical injuries or much property damage. 9 years and a 14 year licence. Good he deserves all he got

https://wheldonlaw.co.uk/types-of-arson-charges-and-how-sentences-are-determined-according-to-uk-law/

I actually think his sentence is about right. The Just Stop Oil ones were excessive.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/kathrynsamsonc4/status/1832371923713409524?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
Fascists appear to be outnumbered in Glasgow today.


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[Cabbage-Patch]

https://x.com/kathrynsamsonc4/status/1832371923713409524?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
Fascists appear to be outnumbered in Glasgow today.


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Would have thought there would be more considering the Rangers don't have a match. Maybe all in Dublin for the England game

[tamig]

Would have thought there would be more considering the Rangers don't have a match. Maybe all in Dublin for the England game

Although just about every one of the individuals on the camera side of the clip looked like disciples of the hun. Unsurprisingly of course.

[Keith_M]

The Green Brigade turned up at the rally today and were 'kettled' by the police in the south west corner of George Square.

I missed it but apparently a large number of guys dressed in the archetypal 'Ultras' clobber had been escorted back onto a train at Glasgow Central.

Purely guess work but I did wonder if that was a pre-arranged meet for two sides of football ultras using the Far-Right and Anti-Racism protests as an excuse for a rammy.

[silverhibee]

When does Robinson Farage Fox and the rest get arrested.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I honestly don’t get why folk would vote for them in Scotland, but they are, madness.

Same reasons people vote for them in England!

[blackpoolhibs]

I've no idea of the percentages of people who are coming into the country, but what i have witnessed is a rise against immigration from areas of the country where there is lots of immigration opposed to places that dont see much of it.

I play golf regularly, and obviously this subject does come up. Most of the people playing are over 60, white and average earners over the years.

The main argument they have is about the lack of housing, schools, doctors, never once have i heard colour or religion mentioned.

The thing i keep hearing is the country's full, we cant take anymore. Now that's probably because we live in an area thats taken a lot of immigrants, round Blackpool and sorounding areas, you cant fail to notice them.

Is that ignorance on their part?

[lapsedhibee]

I've no idea of the percentages of people who are coming into the country, but what i have witnessed is a rise against immigration from areas of the country where there is lots of immigration opposed to places that dont see much of it.

I play golf regularly, and obviously this subject does come up. Most of the people playing are over 60, white and average earners over the years.

The main argument they have is about the lack of housing, schools, doctors, never once have i heard colour or religion mentioned.

The thing i keep hearing is the country's full, we cant take anymore. Now that's probably because we live in an area thats taken a lot of immigrants, round Blackpool and sorounding areas, you cant fail to notice them.

Is that ignorance on their part?

Does the role of the last government in the lack of housing, schools and doctors ever come up? If not, why not? :dunno:

[Stairway 2 7]

I've no idea of the percentages of people who are coming into the country, but what i have witnessed is a rise against immigration from areas of the country where there is lots of immigration opposed to places that dont see much of it.

I play golf regularly, and obviously this subject does come up. Most of the people playing are over 60, white and average earners over the years.

The main argument they have is about the lack of housing, schools, doctors, never once have i heard colour or religion mentioned.

The thing i keep hearing is the country's full, we cant take anymore. Now that's probably because we live in an area thats taken a lot of immigrants, round Blackpool and sorounding areas, you cant fail to notice them.

Is that ignorance on their part?

Yeah probably ignorance.

According to the last census Blackpool had almost third of non white British compared to the rest of England, it's very white. Edinburgh has double the number, London 6 times the amount of non white British. In both these cities Reform and out EU referendum votes were small.

"90.4% of the Blackpool population identified as 'white UK' (or White English, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Irish or British) compared to 81.2% in the North West and 73.5% in England"

UK has a crisis of spare homes but Blackpool has almost 4 times what Scotland has with its shocking 1.2%
Blackpool 3,249 4.5%
Lancashire-14 23,966 3.4%
England 699,126 2.8%
Scotland 46,217 1.2%

[Stairway 2 7]

Does the role of the last government in the lack of housing, schools and doctors ever come up? If not, why not? :dunno:

They definitely have the blame SNP too, Labour will be just as hopeless. Immigrants are financially a net positive to a nation so the governments have a duty to increase housing, schools, hospitals at the same rate as immigration. UK is one of a few European countries that isn't expecting a huge decrease in population so it might not be a problem there but will here

[Kato]

I've no idea of the percentages of people who are coming into the country, but what i have witnessed is a rise against immigration from areas of the country where there is lots of immigration opposed to places that dont see much of it.

I play golf regularly, and obviously this subject does come up. Most of the people playing are over 60, white and average earners over the years.

The main argument they have is about the lack of housing, schools, doctors, never once have i heard colour or religion mentioned.

The thing i keep hearing is the country's full, we cant take anymore. Now that's probably because we live in an area thats taken a lot of immigrants, round Blackpool and sorounding areas, you cant fail to notice them.

Is that ignorance on their part?The conversation about immigrants over the last few years has been almost non-stop.

The conversation about investing in more housing, more/better schools, expanding training for UK people or transport infrastructure exists but is brushed over.

The Tories brought about an increase in immigration in the last few years but were never taken to task about investment in that expansion of the population.

Plenty moans about that happening so it's no wonder ordinary people's views are going to be taken in that direction.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

apparently Tommy ten names sent a letter to.................................. Himself :confused:

BladeoftheSun on X: "Tommy Robinson sent a letter to himself, he meant to log out and send it from a different account. But he didn't. Don't RT 🤣 https://t.co/CmJ51Oduyt" / X (https://x.com/BladeoftheS/status/1833837194152165623)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXMZDHlXEAARh3_?format=jpg&name=900x900

[silverhibee]

apparently Tommy ten names sent a letter to.................................. Himself :confused:

BladeoftheSun on X: "Tommy Robinson sent a letter to himself, he meant to log out and send it from a different account. But he didn't. Don't RT 🤣 https://t.co/CmJ51Oduyt" / X (https://x.com/BladeoftheS/status/1833837194152165623)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXMZDHlXEAARh3_?format=jpg&name=900x900

Seen that, what an idiot, won’t belong before he is banged up in prison.

[CropleyWasGod]

Seen that, what an idiot, won’t belong before he is banged up in prison.

.... with a cellmate who's a 20-stone gay Moslem with a thing for pretty white men.

[JimBHibees]

Seen that, what an idiot, won’t belong before he is banged up in prison.

Wouldn’t be so sure

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/459324274_910459647785680_7849044064902298303_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=bJPf6y0qfd8Q7kNvgERKjQW&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AV9Xzp0fA83bMCrTjekTsgy&oh=00_AYAItroTxM7ny6_dvXpOA1NY2lgcU8je1meyhso3h7ke Sg&oe=66E9FE2C

[MKHIBEE]

.... with a cellmate who's a 20-stone gay Moslem with a thing for pretty white men.
I can always hope

[Stairway 2 7]

Can't be wishing for rape surely.. big Ghandi said an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind

[CropleyWasGod]

Can't be wishing for rape surely.. big Ghandi said an eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind

If you mean me, I think you've misunderstood my post.

[grunt]

I've no idea of the percentages of people who are coming into the country, but what i have witnessed is a rise against immigration from areas of the country where there is lots of immigration opposed to places that dont see much of it. ...
Is that ignorance on their part?
Undoubtedly, absolutely, certainly, yes.

[Stairway 2 7]

The rise of Reform in Scotland. Two polls this week put them getting between 8 and 18 MSPs. Still over a year and a half away but it will be brutal if they get a sizable amount, having to listen to their drivel daily

https://archive.is/59Cmp
The party led by Nigel Farage has tapped into a deep seam of political disaffection in Scotland, with support growing in rural and coastal seats

[Ozyhibby]

The rise of Reform in Scotland. Two polls this week put them getting between 8 and 18 MSPs. Still over a year and a half away but it will be brutal if they get a sizable amount, having to listen to their drivel daily

https://archive.is/59Cmp
The party led by Nigel Farage has tapped into a deep seam of political disaffection in Scotland, with support growing in rural and coastal seats

Will make for an interesting dilemma for Sarwar if he needs them for a coalition.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Will make for an interesting dilemma for Sarwar if he needs them for a coalition.


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Give you 500/1 odds he doesn't go into a coalition, no maximum bet 😆. It's ridiculous and neither will the tories. Makes a majority for any party impossible though. The next Scottish FMs party will be led by a minority gov and each policy will probably fail to get the votes is my bet. Can't see much getting through and maybe another election not long after

[Stairway 2 7]

Austria the next nation to vote in the far right. First time the far right have led the Austrian parliament since the war. The leader wants deportation of immigrants, banning any new mosques and rowing back gay rights. Unsurprisingly he has links to Russia and wants all sanctions ended with Moscow

@JohnOBrennan2
Almost a third of voters in Austria have voted for a fascist party.

We are almost back to the 1930s - by the end of this year about one third of EU member state governments will be led by or include fascist parties.

Rapidly becoming a contest of democrats v fascists

[Keith_M]

Austria the next nation to vote in the far right. First time the far right have led the Austrian parliament since the war. The leader wants deportation of immigrants, banning any new mosques and rowing back gay rights. Unsurprisingly he has links to Russia and wants all sanctions ended with Moscow

@JohnOBrennan2
Almost a third of voters in Austria have voted for a fascist party.

We are almost back to the 1930s - by the end of this year about one third of EU member state governments will be led by or include fascist parties.

Rapidly becoming a contest of democrats v fascists


It's shocking but is sadly nothing new.

In 2008, the two main far-right parties (who have since reunited) won 30% of the vote in the national election.

The leader of the FPÖ at the time, Heinz-Christian Strache, was just as bad as the current incumbent.

"He has been filmed in forests, carrying arms and wearing paramilitary fatigues in the company of banned German neo-Nazis. Islam, he says, is "the fascism of the 21st century". He was photographed apparently giving a three-fingered neo-Nazi salute - though he says he was ordering three beers.

He mocks gay people; wants a ministry for the deportation of immigrants; says "Vienna must not become Istanbul"; hopes to repeal laws banning Nazi revivalism, and is pushing for a constitutional ban on the building of minarets. Heinz-Christian Strache, a former dental technician, is the new star of Austrian politics and the new poster boy of Europe's extreme right."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/30/austria

[Stairway 2 7]

It's shocking but is sadly nothing new.

In 2008, the two main far-right parties (who have since reunited) won 30% of the vote in the national election.

The leader of the FPÖ at the time, Heinz-Christian Strache, was just as bad as the current incumbent.

"He has been filmed in forests, carrying arms and wearing paramilitary fatigues in the company of banned German neo-Nazis. Islam, he says, is "the fascism of the 21st century". He was photographed apparently giving a three-fingered neo-Nazi salute - though he says he was ordering three beers.

He mocks gay people; wants a ministry for the deportation of immigrants; says "Vienna must not become Istanbul"; hopes to repeal laws banning Nazi revivalism, and is pushing for a constitutional ban on the building of minarets. Heinz-Christian Strache, a former dental technician, is the new star of Austrian politics and the new poster boy of Europe's extreme right."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/30/austria




I think the difference from what I'm reading is this will be the first time the Chancellor will be far right, as they got 30% and the other far right party got 23%. They have been in government before as minor partners but I could be wrong

[cabbageandribs1875]

this will add a wee percentage(or two) to the right Visegrád 24 on X: "A Syrian man clad in a keffiyeh around his head, and a Palestinian flag scarf on his shoulder, armed with a machete, has injured 31 people including 2 children in Essen, Germany. https://t.co/58A426xRkL" / X (https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1840323944982691954)

[Hibrandenburg]

this will add a wee percentage(or two) to the right Visegrád 24 on X: "A Syrian man clad in a keffiyeh around his head, and a Palestinian flag scarf on his shoulder, armed with a machete, has injured 31 people including 2 children in Essen, Germany. https://t.co/58A426xRkL" / X (https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1840323944982691954)

Syrian, machete and Palestinian headscarf is all that makes the headline. Apparently the perpetrator was involved in a domestic incident before losing the head and setting two buildings on fire but it'll all be about the headlines of machete, Syrian and Palestinian headscarf.

[Keith_M]

I think the difference from what I'm reading is this will be the first time the Chancellor will be far right, as they got 30% and the other far right party got 23%. They have been in government before as minor partners but I could be wrong


No mate, you're right, it's just the numbers I was referring to.


Jörg Haider, who was the leader of the other far right party at the time, was an interesting character.

His official view on homosexuality was as demeaning as his fellow neo-nazis....... despite the fact that he had a predilection for visiting Hungary to pick up teenage male prostitutes

Hypocrisy is nothing new with that lot, though.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It's shocking but is sadly nothing new.

In 2008, the two main far-right parties (who have since reunited) won 30% of the vote in the national election.

The leader of the FPÖ at the time, Heinz-Christian Strache, was just as bad as the current incumbent.

"He has been filmed in forests, carrying arms and wearing paramilitary fatigues in the company of banned German neo-Nazis. Islam, he says, is "the fascism of the 21st century". He was photographed apparently giving a three-fingered neo-Nazi salute - though he says he was ordering three beers.

He mocks gay people; wants a ministry for the deportation of immigrants; says "Vienna must not become Istanbul"; hopes to repeal laws banning Nazi revivalism, and is pushing for a constitutional ban on the building of minarets. Heinz-Christian Strache, a former dental technician, is the new star of Austrian politics and the new poster boy of Europe's extreme right."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/30/austria




Can he do a decent scale and polish?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The rise of Reform in Scotland. Two polls this week put them getting between 8 and 18 MSPs. Still over a year and a half away but it will be brutal if they get a sizable amount, having to listen to their drivel daily

https://archive.is/59Cmp
The party led by Nigel Farage has tapped into a deep seam of political disaffection in Scotland, with support growing in rural and coastal seats


Well my son is at a local high school and they did a mock election.
Quite a wake up call coming if the numbers for Reform get translated - iirc it was just into the double digits.
Albeit kids probably do a lot to shock and stuff things up - a largish number of spoiled ballots too…

[Andy Bee]

Can he do a decent scale and polish?

TBF we already have our own former Scottish dentist here, Anas Sarwar.

[Kato]

Well my son is at a local high school and they did a mock election.
Quite a wake up call coming if the numbers for Reform get translated - iirc it was just into the double digits.
Albeit kids probably do a lot to shock and stuff things up - a largish number of spoiled ballots too…Reform have a sizeable presence on TikTok.

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[Ozyhibby]

Well my son is at a local high school and they did a mock election.
Quite a wake up call coming if the numbers for Reform get translated - iirc it was just into the double digits.
Albeit kids probably do a lot to shock and stuff things up - a largish number of spoiled ballots too…

All these problems go away if the economy gets sorted and people can afford decent housing.


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[Hibrandenburg]

All these problems go away if the economy gets sorted and people can afford decent housing.


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Not convinced that's true.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8cae5928-d47e-4cdf-9584-6487a308c042?shareToken=a62fbc1c82b6ceb7d61ce50a30 74e91c

I agree with this. The price if we don’t is fascism here.


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[lapsedhibee]

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8cae5928-d47e-4cdf-9584-6487a308c042?shareToken=a62fbc1c82b6ceb7d61ce50a30 74e91c

I agree with this. The price if we don’t is fascism here.


Presumably not all of it (for example the bit about libs being 'wicked').

[Ozyhibby]

Presumably not all of it (for example the bit about libs being 'wicked').

I can’t remember that but not keen on name calling anyway and consider myself liberal.


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[Kato]

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8cae5928-d47e-4cdf-9584-6487a308c042?shareToken=a62fbc1c82b6ceb7d61ce50a30 74e91c

I agree with this. The price if we don’t is fascism here.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThere is sense there. In particular creating safe-routes. Or recreating them considering how they were disposed of in recent years.

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[Ozyhibby]

There is sense there. In particular creating safe-routes. Or recreating them considering how they were disposed of in recent years.

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Safe routes and an acceptance that we can only take a set amount each year. And everyone in Europe should do the same.
There should be whole parts of the world where we are not responsible for taking migrants from.


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[grunt]

There should be whole parts of the world where we are not responsible for taking migrants from.

Why is that, and which parts are you referring to?

[Ozyhibby]

Why is that, and which parts are you referring to?

Practical reasons mostly. People travelling from Asia should not see the UK as the place to go. I’m as liberal as the next person but we simply can’t take the amount of people who want to come here. We have to find a system for saying no to some.
Obviously the war in Ukraine was a clear example where we can and should help. The war in Gaza as well. Both on the edge of Europe.
People from India, Pakistan, Asia, sub Saharan Africa need to find closer options.
This is 100% coming from the need to find a solution. I’m happy to take an agreed amount every year.


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[lapsedhibee]

I can’t remember that but not keen on name calling anyway and consider myself liberal.


Syeed's article is full of 'lefty lawyers' 'do-gooders' 'leftists' 'rabid right' 'thugs' etc etc. He seems to be suggesting that at least one of the reasons for Putin invading Ukraine was to create refugees and destabilise the West, including the UK. Surely cheaper just to buy the UK government? :dunno:

[Kato]

Surely cheaper just to buy the UK government? :dunno:

They tried that.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

no other party in Austria wanted to form a coalition with the recent far right winning party Austria's conservatives to form government after far right is shunned - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx252kedeppo)

Austria’s President, Alexander Van der Bellen, has asked the leader of the conservative People’s Party (OVP) and incumbent Chancellor Karl Nehammer to form a coalition government - despite the fact that the far-right Freedom Party won the general election last month.

The anti-immigrant, Russia-friendly Freedom Party came top in the election in September (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o)with almost 29% of the vote and its leader, Herbert Kickl, said he should lead the next government.
However all the other parties have ruled out forming a coalition with him.
Following talks among the three largest parties, President Alexander Van der Bellen said it was clear that Kickl “would not be able to find a coalition partner who would make him Chancellor.”

[Ozyhibby]

no other party in Austria wanted to form a coalition with the recent far right winning party Austria's conservatives to form government after far right is shunned - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx252kedeppo)

Austria’s President, Alexander Van der Bellen, has asked the leader of the conservative People’s Party (OVP) and incumbent Chancellor Karl Nehammer to form a coalition government - despite the fact that the far-right Freedom Party won the general election last month.

The anti-immigrant, Russia-friendly Freedom Party came top in the election in September (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o)with almost 29% of the vote and its leader, Herbert Kickl, said he should lead the next government.
However all the other parties have ruled out forming a coalition with him.
Following talks among the three largest parties, President Alexander Van der Bellen said it was clear that Kickl “would not be able to find a coalition partner who would make him Chancellor.”

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]


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[Stairway 2 7]

no other party in Austria wanted to form a coalition with the recent far right winning party Austria's conservatives to form government after far right is shunned - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx252kedeppo)

Austria’s President, Alexander Van der Bellen, has asked the leader of the conservative People’s Party (OVP) and incumbent Chancellor Karl Nehammer to form a coalition government - despite the fact that the far-right Freedom Party won the general election last month.

The anti-immigrant, Russia-friendly Freedom Party came top in the election in September (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8rdygy5888o)with almost 29% of the vote and its leader, Herbert Kickl, said he should lead the next government.
However all the other parties have ruled out forming a coalition with him.
Following talks among the three largest parties, President Alexander Van der Bellen said it was clear that Kickl “would not be able to find a coalition partner who would make him Chancellor.”

That's what happens with PR voting as in France, the left and right campaign and then the centre makes coalitions to form government