Handball rule

[Donegal Hibby]

I thought that penalty last night for Germany was totally the wrong decision. The danish player knew nothing about it , in fact he tried to pull his hand away.

This thing they have now about a players hand being in an unnatural position is nonsense, the guy was running and of course he was swinging his arms , it's natural.

Usain Bolt or some athletic doing the high jump would never have their arms glued to their sides .

Another rule badly needing changed for the good of the game . Though what would be the best way of changing it ? .
Would going back to the way it was be the answer?.

[Edina Street]

I thought that penalty last night for Germany was totally the wrong decision. The danish player knew nothing about it , in fact he tried to pull his hand away.

This thing they have now about a players hand being in an unnatural position is nonsense, the guy was running and of course he was swinging his arms , it's natural.

Usain Bolt or some athletic doing the high jump would never have their arms glued to their sides .

Another rule badly needing changed for the good of the game . Though what would be the best way of changing it ? .
Would going back to the way it was be the answer?.

So long as the rules are the same for everyone, does it matter? It will all even itself out at the end of the day, and teams that got penalized for a harsh handball will also benefit at the other side of the pitch from harsh handballs.

However when there is room for discretion, such as no penalty for accidental handballs, then there is the room for referee error, or worse, discretion used for one incident but not the other. Or used for one team and not the other.

Quite simple, make it less complex and complicated, do away with discretion, and make it strict and undebatable. Quite simply, if the ball hits the hand of a player, it is a foul, regardless of whether the ball was driven to fast for the opposition player to get his hands out of the way, or whether his hands were in a natural position.

Do we have scientists on the park that can establish those facts? Why are untrained referees being allowed to make decisions on what constitutes a natural motor movement and what does not?

In fact, why are you or I allowed?

Quite simply, it is a foul.

In fact, deliberately kicking the ball at the hand of an opposite player could become a new skill requiring high attributes in accuracy and aim.

"He kicked the ball too hard".

"Diddums".

[Donegal Hibby]

So long as the rules are the same for everyone, does it matter? It will all even itself out at the end of the day, and teams that got penalized for a harsh handball will also benefit at the other side of the pitch from harsh handballs.

However when there is room for discretion, such as no penalty for accidental handballs, then there is the room for referee error, or worse, discretion used for one incident but not the other. Or used for one team and not the other.

Quite simple, make it less complex and complicated, do away with discretion, and make it strict and undebatable. Quite simply, if the ball hits the hand of a player, it is a foul, regardless of whether the ball was driven to fast for the opposition player to get his hands out of the way, or whether his hands were in a natural position.

Do we have scientists on the park that can establish those facts? Why are untrained referees being allowed to make decisions on what constitutes a natural motor movement and what does not?

In fact, why are you or I allowed?

Quite simply, it is a foul.

In fact, deliberately kicking the ball at the hand of an opposite player could become a new skill requiring high attributes in accuracy and aim.

"He kicked the ball too hard".

"Diddums".

Kicking the ball of the hand of the opposition player is a ploy that's unfortunately in the game now due to this rule .

That one last night is accidental , the balls driven at the player and should never be a penalty under any circumstances imo . One hertz got against Celtic is another classic example how wrong this rule is.

As a football fan I don't want to see penalties given like that or defenders running about like penguins . There has to be some common sense applied to rules like this .

Generally I think most neutral fans watching football can tell if there's a genuine case for a penalty , in is it ball to hand or hand to ball .

Surely the officials can too . Seems to be another rule created so we can use this technology in the game more than it's needed .

Correct call last was for the referee NOT to give the penalty and allow the game to continue without stopping for a VAR check imo .

[MWHIBBIES]

When assaults like this so unpunished the game is in trouble

https://youtu.be/knzymgyTFr8?si=c-JjSIeKQAaeKQ3U

PGMOL refs are a terrible standard. Biggest two controversies have been Taylor and Oliver. Two dreadful refs. Most of the European ones been excellent and sensible.

[Donegal Hibby]

When assaults like this so unpunished the game is in trouble

https://youtu.be/knzymgyTFr8?si=c-JjSIeKQAaeKQ3U

PGMOL refs are a terrible standard. Biggest two controversies have been Taylor and Oliver. Two dreadful refs. Most of the European ones been excellent and sensible.

Or leg breaking challenges go without receiving the correct punishment like this one too ...

https://youtu.be/QhVK4SCd6D4?si=IOaSGeX23f3CKCBh

Though what either have to do with the crazy rules like the handball or offside rule I don't know :dunno:

Handball rule in particular is making officials job harder even with VAR .

[MWHIBBIES]

Or leg breaking challenges go without receiving the correct punishment like this one too ...

https://youtu.be/QhVK4SCd6D4?si=IOaSGeX23f3CKCBh

Though what either have to do with the crazy rules like the handball or offside rule I don't know :dunno:

Handball rule in particular is making officials job harder even with VAR .

Standards across the board really. The Diaz offside happened and everyone laughed at Liverpool.

Fans only interested when it's suits them. It's funny. You thought that Newcastle Arsenal match was excellent refereeing then were greeting like Shearer a few weeks later when psg got a dodgy pen.

The refereeing at the euros been mostly brilliant. Offside rule hasn't changed, ever. It's just being correctly enforced now. Good to see imo. It's not a subjective rule. Inches don't matter.

Handball will always be subjective. Blocking a cross with your hand has always been a penalty since I've been watching football.

I see this guff about players not crowding refs. ****ing crowd them. Keep making statements, keep complaining until they get better and stop ruining games. It's only really Scottish and English officials making these rules seem like the problem. Quick, efficient decisions make by Europe's best.

[Donegal Hibby]

Standards across the board really. The Diaz offside happened and everyone laughed at Liverpool.

Fans only interested when it's suits them. It's funny. You thought that Newcastle Arsenal match was excellent refereeing then were greeting like Shearer a few weeks later when psg got a dodgy pen.

The refereeing at the euros been mostly brilliant. Offside rule hasn't changed, ever. It's just being correctly enforced now. Good to see imo. It's not a subjective rule. Inches don't matter.

Handball will always be subjective. Blocking a cross with your hand has always been a penalty since I've been watching football.

I see this guff about players not crowding refs. ****ing crowd them. Keep making statements, keep complaining until they get better and stop ruining games.

There was mistakes made in the Newcastle United v arsenal game , both teams should have had a man sent off so that balanced itself out in no team gained the upper hand.

Certain things that Arteta ended up ranting about made him look extremely foolish like the ball being out of play when it was proven not to be , very lucky he escaped getting banned tbh .

Offside rule with all the checks that goes with it is making the game less enjoyable in trying to find ways to rule out goals by the narrowest of margins .

Indeed if the player deliberately tries to block the ball it should be a penalty though the one against the danish player was accidental and should never be a penalty , the one hertz got when the Celtic player is pushed and the ball comes down behind him and hits his hand which he's totally unaware of and again totally accidental should also never been a penalty.

A wee bit of common sense needs to be applied to these rules , games getting over complicated and all these technology stoppages really is adding anything to the game at all .

[MWHIBBIES]

There was mistakes made in the Newcastle United v arsenal game , both teams should have had a man sent off so that balanced itself out in no team gained the upper hand.

Certain things that Arteta ended up ranting about made him look extremely foolish like the ball being out of play when it was proven not to be , very lucky he escaped getting banned tbh .

Offside rule with all the checks that goes with it is making the game less enjoyable in trying to find ways to rule out goals by the narrowest of margins .

Indeed if the player deliberately tries to block the ball it should be a penalty though the one against the danish player was accidental and should never be a penalty , the one hertz got when the Celtic player is pushed and the ball comes down behind him and hits his hand which he's totally unaware of and again totally accidental should also never been a penalty.

A wee bit of common sense needs to be applied to these rules , games getting over complicated and all these technology stoppages really is adding anything to the game at all .

Common sense doesn't need applied to offside. It's not anything to do with common sense. A 30 yard shot goes just over the bar, do you just give a goal because it was close and we want to see more goals? No one is trying to disallow goals. They are coming to a factual conclusion of offside.

So you only give deliberate handball? Who decides that? About 10 incidents in history where a player's has clearly and deliberately handled it in the box. Again, dumb handballs are not being given because of the rule. It's dumb referees.

Change offside because we want to see more goals

Don't give penalties for handball even though it leads to more goals.

[ekhibee]

Whoever was refereeing when the Belgian winger was penalised for handball leading up to the 'goal.' I think it was their first game.

[Edina Street]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXCmHcYS2-I

[Donegal Hibby]

Common sense doesn't need applied to offside. It's not anything to do with common sense. A 30 yard shot goes just over the bar, do you just give a goal because it was close and we want to see more goals? No one is trying to disallow goals. They are coming to a factual conclusion of offside.

So you only give deliberate handball? Who decides that? About 10 incidents in history where a player's has clearly and deliberately handled it in the box. Again, dumb handballs are not being given because of the rule. It's dumb referees.

Change offside because we want to see more goals

Don't give penalties for handball even though it leads to more goals.

I mean common sense needs to be applied to the handball rule , you think that danish player was deliberately trying to handle the ball ? Or his arm is in an unnatural position ? .

The one against the Celtic player at tiny comes down behind the player , surely you aren't trying to tell me it was a deliberate handball ? .

The offside rule is also spoiling the game in every goal will be checked incase somebody's toenails offside .

I don't think the majority of fans like VAR or these rules which are only heightening the need to use VAR more and more which as a total killjoy .

I'm confident eventually both rules will be changed too .

A messy rule thats not working well..
https://youtu.be/zkQwV0H-NVM?si=iND6SPoQprlw8Rsu

[Conj]

Whoever was refereeing when the Belgian winger was penalised for handball leading up to the 'goal.' I think it was their first game.

That was given by VAR so doesn’t matter who the referee was.

[MWHIBBIES]

I mean common sense needs to be applied to the handball rule , you think that danish player was deliberately trying to handle the ball ? Or his arm is in an unnatural position ? .

The one against the Celtic player at tiny comes down behind the player , surely you aren't trying to tell me it was a deliberate handball ? .

The offside rule is also spoiling the game in every goal will be checked incase somebody's toenails offside .

I don't think the majority of fans like VAR or these rules which are only heightening the need to use VAR more and more which as a total killjoy .

I'm confident eventually both rules will be changed too .

A messy rule thats not working well..
https://youtu.be/zkQwV0H-NVM?si=iND6SPoQprlw8Rsu


You're basically saying you preferred offside when it was applied incorrectly, though. A toenail is offside. You're offside. End of. It doesn't matter.

Ehm, I thought it was harsh, and not deliberate (intent has never mattered so no idea why this is relevant) but it blocked a dangerous cross. It's a subjective rule that comes down to the referee. No change can be made to make it not subjective.

I've no interest in a decision between hearts and Celtic. Not seen it.

[CapitalGreen]

You're basically saying you preferred offside when it was applied incorrectly, though. A toenail is offside. You're offside. End of. It doesn't matter.

Ehm, I thought it was harsh, and not deliberate (intent has never mattered so no idea why this is relevant) but it blocked a dangerous cross. It's a subjective rule that comes down to the referee. No change can be made to make it not subjective.

I've no interest in a decision between hearts and Celtic. Not seen it.

It’s not correct to say that intent has never mattered. IFAB reworded the handball law prior to the 2019/20 season to remove the word “deliberate” in an attempt to simplify the rule and remove subjectivity from VAR decisions. It’s this change which has caused so much confusion and disagreement - it’s difficult to argue that the punishment for an accidental handball like last nights is commensurate with the offence.

[Donegal Hibby]

You're basically saying you preferred offside when it was applied incorrectly, though. A toenail is offside. You're offside. End of. It doesn't matter.

Ehm, I thought it was harsh, and not deliberate (intent has never mattered so no idea why this is relevant) but it blocked a dangerous cross. It's a subjective rule that comes down to the referee. No change can be made to make it not subjective.

I've no interest in a decision between hearts and Celtic. Not seen it.

Don't like or agree with the current offside rule at all and thankfully i can't see it lasting in the game .

I have no interest in hearts or Celtic either though I do in football and generally when you see ridiculous penalties given for handball's like this due to another rule that's spoiling football it's not good .

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13086398/neil-lennon-stunned-by-penalty-decision-kris-boyd-its-been-a-bad-week-for-var

[MWHIBBIES]

It’s not correct to say that intent has never mattered. IFAB reworded the handball law prior to the 2019/20 season to remove the word “deliberate” in an attempt to simplify the rule and remove subjectivity from VAR decisions. It’s this change which has caused so much confusion and disagreement - it’s difficult to argue that the punishment for an accidental handball like last nights is commensurate with the offence.

Fair enough, but plenty of penalties were given for accidental handball then too. Very, very rarely does a player punch the ball off the line etc on purpose. Maybe once a season.

Again its harsh but last night wouldn't make the top 100 dodgy handball penalties. I don't think it was that outrageous. Denmark got off with denying a clear goal when Havertz/Sane were through by fouling Sane.


Don't like or agree with the current offside rule at all and i thankfully i cant see it lasted in the game .

I have no interest in hearts or Celtic either though I do in football in general and when you see ridiculous penalties given for handball like this due to another rule that's spoiling football it's not good .

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13086398/neil-lennon-stunned-by-penalty-decision-kris-boyd-its-been-a-bad-week-for-var

Why cant you see a rule that has existed for decades lasting in the game? It has not changed, it will not change. Its now being applied correctly, that is it.

[CapitalGreen]

Fair enough, but plenty of penalties were given for accidental handball then too. Very, very rarely does a player punch the ball off the line etc on purpose. Maybe once a season.

Sure, prior to the officials having the ability to review decisions.


Again it’s harsh but last night wouldn't make the top 100 dodgy handball penalties. I don't think it was that outrageous. Denmark got off with denying a clear goal when Havertz/Sane were through by fouling Sane.

I’ve never claimed it was dodgy, I’m not even sure I’ve even described it as harsh. It’s a handball as per the current laws of the game but the current handball law isn’t fit for purpose. The handball law was introduced in the 19th century to prevent players from picking up the ball and carrying it as a way of differentiating football from sports like Rugby. It’s been *******ised so much in the intervening 150 years that attacking teams are now being awarded a free shot on goal for a slight accidental deflection off a defenders arm.

[MWHIBBIES]

Sure, prior to the officials having the ability to review decisions.



I’ve never claimed it was dodgy, I’m not even sure I’ve even described it as harsh. It’s a handball as per the current laws of the game but the current handball law isn’t fit for purpose. The handball law was introduced in the 19th century to prevent players from picking up the ball and carrying it as a way of differentiating football from sports like Rugby. It’s been *******ised so much in the intervening 150 years that attacking teams are now being awarded a free shot on goal for a slight accidental deflection off a defenders arm.

I mean, referees still ignore plenty like last night too. Its bad referees and a subjective rule. Its never going to go well. I agree its not a great rule, but last night isn't a good example of it being bad IMO.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The only way hands can be in an unnatural position is if they are broken or contorted.
what a nonsensical rule.

[Greenbeard]

You're basically saying you preferred offside when it was applied incorrectly, though. A toenail is offside. You're offside. End of. It doesn't matter.

Ehm, I thought it was harsh, and not deliberate (intent has never mattered so no idea why this is relevant) but it blocked a dangerous cross. It's a subjective rule that comes down to the referee. No change can be made to make it not subjective.

I've no interest in a decision between hearts and Celtic. Not seen it.
No it didn't. The glance off his hand was of no significance to the passage of play. The cross was overhit and was going nowhere near an attacking player. That's in my eyes what made it frustrating - and what is wrong with application of the rule.
Agree with you on the offside though.

[Greenbeard]

Standards across the board really. The Diaz offside happened and everyone laughed at Liverpool.

Fans only interested when it's suits them. It's funny. You thought that Newcastle Arsenal match was excellent refereeing then were greeting like Shearer a few weeks later when psg got a dodgy pen.

The refereeing at the euros been mostly brilliant. Offside rule hasn't changed, ever. It's just being correctly enforced now. Good to see imo. It's not a subjective rule. Inches don't matter.

Handball will always be subjective. Blocking a cross with your hand has always been a penalty since I've been watching football.

I see this guff about players not crowding refs. ****ing crowd them. Keep making statements, keep complaining until they get better and stop ruining games. It's only really Scottish and English officials making these rules seem like the problem. Quick, efficient decisions make by Europe's best.
:bitchy: