2024 General Election

[Hibrandenburg]

Drivel, devolved issues will be handled in Scotland, reserved issues at Westminster that's how devolution works. The constant that only the SNP can represent Scotland is boring and inaccurate. I'd rather have Scottish politicians in government at Westminster than have them on the opposition benches.

Independence views have barely changed since 2014, but the priorities of the people have. Whilst the SNP see independence as a solution to the country's problems the majority of Scots don't. That's why the SNP are facing a difficult election.

As for last night's debate, it was pointless. No one really impressed. These debates are a waste of time especially when now of the participants are even standing for election.

You've not been paying attention, how many u-turns have the local branch managers made after saying one thing then backtracking because their UK head office announce something different? Or Scottish Labour members being outraged at UK Labour's policies or comments regarding Scotland?

[marinello59]

You've not been paying attention, how many u-turns have the local branch managers made after saying one thing then backtracking because their UK head office announce something different? Or Scottish Labour members being outraged at UK Labour's policies or comments regarding Scotland?

To be fair the SNP are in the process of a screeching u-turn on oil and gas after they managed to become a branch party of the Greens. :greengrin

The branch party chat is pretty tired now, I'm not so sure that worn out patter is going to cut through at this election. We need something new, snappier. Ill have a think. :greengrin

[Hibs4185]

I assume the Farage end game is win the seat, defect to Tories and win leadership election?

Interesting….hadnt thought of that. He does go on about the Tories an awful lot

[Moulin Yarns]

To be fair the SNP are in the process of a screeching u-turn on oil and gas after they managed to become a branch party of the Greens. :greengrin

The branch party chat is pretty tired now, I'm not so sure that worn out patter is going to cut through at this election. We need something new, snappier. Ill have a think. :greengrin

The consul?

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't get the Scotland branch attack line that gets used against Scot Lab Lories. People generally that vote Labour want the union and the UK Party. Most important things like health, education and crime is devolved and it seems a majority still want it as it is as the poll of polls has a constant no lead.

I'm sure a majority would want a devo max max though but no party seems to want that. I think that more scots are about to vote uk labour than SNP. The unbelievable rise in the polls in Scotland for labour since Starmer took over is surprising if not depressing

[jamie_1875]

https://x.com/conor_matchett/status/1798024567275065459?t=bfY6p-Pzzr8Z2ahukZ6_hA&s=19

"New Redfield & Wilton poll has a joint record lead for Scottish Labour

LAB: 39% (+1)
SNP: 29% (-2)
CON: 17% (+3)
LD: 8% (-)
REF: 4% (-)
GRN: 3% (-)
Alba: 1% (-)
Other: 1% (-)

Electoral Calculus suggests that's just *7* seats for the SNP - and a landslide for Scottish Labour"

[marinello59]

https://x.com/conor_matchett/status/1798024567275065459?t=bfY6p-Pzzr8Z2ahukZ6_hA&s=19

"New Redfield & Wilton poll has a joint record lead for Scottish Labour

LAB: 39% (+1)
SNP: 29% (-2)
CON: 17% (+3)
LD: 8% (-)
REF: 4% (-)
GRN: 3% (-)
Alba: 1% (-)
Other: 1% (-)

Electoral Calculus suggests that's just *7* seats for the SNP - and a landslide for Scottish Labour"

I can’t see that happening. Labour are going to do well but there are too many marginal seats in Scotland that the polls will struggle to call at this point.

[Hibs4185]

If there is a massive swing to Labour in Scotland, I feel it’s more to get the tories out than anti-SNP.

The snp have made a James hunt of it recently but it’s still 46% yes to 54% no in the polls. No way anyway yes supporter is voting for anyone else than SNP

[cabbageandribs1875]

is this a fake, hard to tell nowadays with AIhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPPsDFVbsAAjvIU?format=jpg&name=large

[Keith_M]

If there is a massive swing to Labour in Scotland, I feel it’s more to get the tories out than anti-SNP.

The snp have made a James hunt of it recently but it’s still 46% yes to 54% no in the polls. No way anyway yes supporter is voting for anyone else than SNP



Yeah, I think this is a bit like the Johnson era General Election, where Brexit was basically the only thing people wanted to discuss, which led to a massive win for the Tories.

This time people are just desperate to get rid of them and Labour is the obvious option.

Combined with the SNP's divisive and uninspiring showing at Holyrood, it wouldn't be a surprise if they lost a massive number of seats to Labour as well.

[Stairway 2 7]

If there is a massive swing to Labour in Scotland, I feel it’s more to get the tories out than anti-SNP.

The snp have made a James hunt of it recently but it’s still 46% yes to 54% no in the polls. No way anyway yes supporter is voting for anyone else than SNP

The numbers don't make sense for that. The slide started at the the same time as the Bute House was announced 4 years ago. Snp were 50 points ahead of Labour at the time and the general election was a world away. It's been a sustained and constant massive drop from that point. SNP changed path and put independence back 10 years imo.

This isn't a quick switch due to the general election this is sustained obvious fall over the last years. Two continuity Murrell candidates kicked snp when they were falling to a comatose state. There are yes voters that will be voting Labour if the polls are nearly right and that shows the disaster

[Lendo]

is this a fake, hard to tell nowadays with AIhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPPsDFVbsAAjvIU?format=jpg&name=large

Looks real enough. Can usually tell by weird fingers and hands. Not convinced they are the same person though.

[JimBHibees]

The numbers don't make sense for that. The slide started at the the same time as the Bute House was announced 4 years ago. Snp were 50 points ahead of Labour at the time and the general election was a world away. It's been a sustained and constant massive drop from that point. SNP changed path and put independence back 10 years imo.

This isn't a quick switch due to the general election this is sustained obvious fall over the last years. Two continuity Murrell candidates kicked snp when they were falling to a comatose state. There are yes voters that will be voting Labour if the polls are nearly right and that shows the disaster

Wouldn’t under estimate the relentless negative press in virtually all media outlets.

[Northernhibee]

BREAKING: Bombshell MRP poll shows Labour on course for a majority of 324, the largest ever recorded in British history: Here is the seat breakdown:

LAB: 487
CON: 71
LD: 43
SNP: 26
REF: 3
PC: 2
GRN: 0

Via Survation, 30,000 voters, 2nd June.

[JimBHibees]

I don't get the Scotland branch attack line that gets used against Scot Lab Lories. People generally that vote Labour want the union and the UK Party. Most important things like health, education and crime is devolved and it seems a majority still want it as it is as the poll of polls has a constant no lead.

I'm sure a majority would want a devo max max though but no party seems to want that. I think that more scots are about to vote uk labour than SNP. The unbelievable rise in the polls in Scotland for labour since Starmer took over is surprising if not depressing

Not sure about unbelievable rise to be honest. Mix of tories being toxic and likely snp being in power for too long.

[Paul1642]

Farage running is going to take some votes away from the Tories. I wonder if it’ll be enough for the unthinkable to happen and push them into 3rd place.

[marinello59]

If there is a massive swing to Labour in Scotland, I feel it’s more to get the tories out than anti-SNP.

The snp have made a James hunt of it recently but it’s still 46% yes to 54% no in the polls. No way anyway yes supporter is voting for anyone else than SNP

The Rutherglen by-election may have been held under unique circumstances but it revealed the first real rejection of the SNP in years. There was a recent poll suggesting 20% of those who voted SNP the last time will switch directly to Labour this time. You have to assume they were Yes voters. There is something more going in here in Scotland than simply getting the Tories out .
The SNP are lucky, support for Independence has seen them defy the normal laws of political gravity. No doubt there will be some who blame the media and dark forces working against them but the realists in the party will realise that it needs to be reinvigorated from top to bottom, to much of the electorate, fairly or not, they simply look stale and out of ideas.

[Paul1642]

The Rutherglen by-election may have been held under unique circumstances but it revealed the first real rejection of the SNP in years. There was a recent poll suggesting 20% of those who voted SNP the last time will switch directly to Labour this time. You have to assume they were Yes voters. There is something more going in here in Scotland than simply getting the Tories out .
The SNP are lucky, support for Independence has seen them defy the normal laws of political gravity. No doubt there will be some who blame the media and dark forces working against them but the realists in the party will realise that it needs to be reinvigorated from top to bottom, to much of the electorate, fairly or not, they simply look stale and out of ideas.

SNP built a rock solid reputation of not being your average self serving politicians over a fair few years which hit a high peak around the Covid years when the ones down south were having parties. That appealed to people who don’t care about independence.

They lost that with the resent scandals and anyone who hadn’t bought into their ideology will take their vote elsewhere as a result.

[Stairway 2 7]

Wouldn’t under estimate the relentless negative press in virtually all media outlets.

Same press stormed SNP to massive wins and the huge lead over Labour so that doesn't check imo

[Andy Bee]

The Rutherglen by-election may have been held under unique circumstances but it revealed the first real rejection of the SNP in years. There was a recent poll suggesting 20% of those who voted SNP the last time will switch directly to Labour this time. You have to assume they were Yes voters. There is something more going in here in Scotland than simply getting the Tories out .
The SNP are lucky, support for Independence has seen them defy the normal laws of political gravity. No doubt there will be some who blame the media and dark forces working against them but the realists in the party will realise that it needs to be reinvigorated from top to bottom, to much of the electorate, fairly or not, they simply look stale and out of ideas.

Rutherglen is a weird one because it could be argued that SNP voters or at least Indy supporters simply stayed at home, turnout was below 40%. I think the slow decline has been going on for a lot longer than the Bute House Agreement, membership has been falling since the 2015 election where they returned 56 of the 59 Scottish seats and done absolutely nothing with it. They played the wrong strategy with Brexit and since then have done nothing with the mandates they've been gifted. Indy voters are sick of them not having a coherent plan for Independence, whether that's to do with their inadequacies or more seriously because of them silently wanting to keep their well paying jobs is up for debate but neither inspires Indy supporters to keep blindly voting for them. They really need a right good shake up, lose the previous ties to Sturgeon and reinvigorate the whole movement.

[marinello59]

Here we go, Sunak v Starmer.
Sunak has been hiding alll day preparing. Could be amusing watching him try to come out swinging. :greengrin
Starmer just has to avoid killing a kitten live on air.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Looks real enough. Can usually tell by weird fingers and hands. Not convinced they are the same person though.


apparently not her, though after some detective work :greengrin i've managed to find out she's not very well liked

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPPMAZOWEAAkgQP?format=jpg&name=medium

[Ozyhibby]

Here we go, Sunak v Starmer.
Sunak has been hiding alll day preparing. Could be amusing watching him try to come out swinging. :greengrin
Starmer just has to avoid killing a kitten live on air.

Am I imagining it or is Sunak doing better than Starmer?
Won’t make a blind bit of difference but still.


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[Ozyhibby]

Starmer no defence on NHS in Wales. Neither mentions that Scotland better than both.


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[marinello59]

Am I imagining it or is Sunak doing better than Starmer?
Won’t make a blind bit of difference but still.


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Starmer is rattled. He really isn’t coming across well so far.

[JimBHibees]

Starmer no defence on NHS in Wales. Neither mentions that Scotland better than both.


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That is why it is a complete nonsense the other parties are unrepresented

[DaveF]

At least Sunak was honest to the question of using private health care for a loved one if waiting too long on NHS waiting list.

Starmer (imho) lied when saying No.

[marinello59]

That is why it is a complete nonsense the other parties are unrepresented

I’d be happy seeing none of them represented. This is dreadful stuff.

[Bristolhibby]

At least Sunak was honest to the question of using private health care for a loved one if waiting too long on NHS waiting list.

Starmer (imho) lied when saying No.

Yea, I didn’t buy that.

J

[Hiber-nation]

Starmer will get no respect until he focuses on what Labour are going to do rather than take the easy option and just slag off Sunak. We all know the Tories have wrecked the country, now tell us what your plans are.

[Andy Bee]

Starmer is rattled. He really isn’t coming across well so far.

I'm really quite enjoying this, what a strange feeling. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Starmer has been awful? Smash the gangs? That’s like saying he’s going to stop drug abuse by smashing the drug gangs.


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[Bristolhibby]

Safe routes in France will stop the people traffickers overnight.

Starmer bottled it there,

J

[marinello59]

Starmer just has to avoid killing a kitten live on air.

He would do better if he called for a kitten and a guillotine now. :greengrin

[DaveF]

Starmer "hostages out first, aid in next"

Yep, let's prioritise 100 people who are most probably dead, over a million people who are starving and have been brutalised for months.

[DaveF]

Did Starmer work as DPP? He's only mentioned it about 10 times.

[marinello59]

Did Starmer work as DPP? He's only mentioned it about 10 times.

I was thinking the same :greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

I was thinking the same :greengrin

His Da was tool maker.

J

[Andy Bee]

Did Starmer work as DPP? He's only mentioned it about 10 times.

That and my dad was a toolmaker, he certainly made one tool.

[Bristolhibby]

National Service going down like a six month tour in North Korea.

J

[Ozyhibby]

National Service going down like a six month tour in North Korea.

J

Was just about to say he was doing so well until he started talking about national service. [emoji23]


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[DaveF]

No advice for Steve Clarke?

More confirmation that England = UK. And still so many people love this 'union'

[Ozyhibby]

No advice for Steve Clarke?

More confirmation that England = UK. And still so many people love this 'union'

I’m kind of glad, hate watching them pretend they give a ****.


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[marinello59]

No advice for Steve Clarke?

More confirmation that England = UK. And still so many people love this 'union'

I’m absolutely gutted that Steve Clark was not included in the most cringeworthy and ineptly asked question of the night. When we crash out of the Euros I will know where the blame lies. :greengrin

[DaveF]

I’m absolutely gutted that Steve Clark was not included in the most cringeworthy and ineptly asked question of the night. When we crash out of the Euros I will know where the blame lies. :greengrin

You get my point (and I also get and agree totally with yours!)

[Stairway 2 7]

Yougov have rishi 51%-49% RW the opposite. Yougov had boris 51%-49% over Corbyn then wiped the floor with him so I'll pay zero attention to that

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Sunak needed an awful lot better than a score draw. At times, the audience was laughing at both of them, which is a sign of where a lot of people are with politics in general and it's the governing party who will take the brunt of that. Interesting news breaking that £2000 tax rise which has been 100% independently arrived at by the Civil Service, is maybe not so independent. If that's true, then maybe Starmer was right to let it drift and sink in.

[Mon Dieu4]

I still have no clue who I'm going to vote for, might just go for whoever the most deranged candidate is in Leith and North Edinburgh, hopefully a Lord Buckethead type candidate runs

[marinello59]

I still have no clue who I'm going to vote for, might just go for whoever the most deranged candidate is in Leith and North Edinburgh, hopefully a Lord Buckethead type candidate runs

Tory then?

[Bristolhibby]

I’m kind of glad, hate watching them pretend they give a ****.


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They are English. Why should they care? I would want England to get pumped if I was PM.

J

[Bostonhibby]

I still have no clue who I'm going to vote for, might just go for whoever the most deranged candidate is in Leith and North Edinburgh, hopefully a Lord Buckethead type candidate runsIf Nasty Nige reads this he might just declare himself a life long leither in his endless quest for a seat.

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[Jim44]

Sunak needed an awful lot better than a score draw. At times, the audience was laughing at both of them, which is a sign of where a lot of people are with politics in general and it's the governing party who will take the brunt of that. Interesting news breaking that £2000 tax rise which has been 100% independently arrived at by the Civil Service, is maybe not so independent. If that's true, then maybe Starmer was right to let it drift and sink in.

Folk are picking on Starmer repeatedly going on about his role as DPP. Sunak, likewise, wouldn’t stop pushing the ‘fact’ that Labour is going to increase taxes at a rate of £2000 per person per year. It turns out that Sunak was lying about this, while, at least, Starmer, albeit labouringly, was telling the truth. I wouldn’t trust either of them, just as I don’t trust career politicians in general. I get the feeling that Sunak is the more desperate of the two. The Tories are sticking by their claim that the figures were formulated by top civil servants, who have dismissed this as a lie. Apparently the UK Statistics Authority is investigating the issue.

[Ozyhibby]

Folk are picking on Starmer repeatedly going on about his role as DPP. Sunak, likewise, wouldn’t stop pushing the ‘fact’ that Labour is going to increase taxes at a rate of £2000 per person per year. It turns out that Sunak was lying about this, while, at least, Starmer, albeit labouringly, was telling the truth. I wouldn’t trust either of them, just as I don’t trust career politicians in general. I get the feeling that Sunak is the more desperate of the two. The Tories are sticking by their claim that the figures were formulated by top civil servants, who have dismissed this as a lie. Apparently the UK Statistics Authority is investigating the issue.

Neither are career politicians but I get your point.


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[Mon Dieu4]

If Nasty Nige reads this he might just declare himself a life long leither in his endless quest for a seat.

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No chance, although I don't know who I will vote for I'm 100% certain who I'd never vote for, would never vote Tories, Reform, can't vote Labour as I don't want my vote used as some kind of claim I'm for the Union etc, leaves me with a pretty limited choice, think who is running is announced over the next couple of days so that might make it easier

[Ozyhibby]

No chance, although I don't know who I will vote for I'm 100% certain who I'd never vote for, would never vote Tories, Reform, can't vote Labour as I don't want my vote used as some kind of claim I'm for the Union etc, leaves me with a pretty limited choice, think who is running is announced over the next couple of days so that might make it easier

The real shame for Labour is they would do a lot better if they even had a decent devolution proposal.
Mind you, watching the debate last night it’s clear Starmer doesn’t really have a plan for anything other than getting in the door in Downing Street.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqlle33n77lo

Whatever you do, don’t mention Scotland where it’s much better.[emoji6]


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[Bostonhibby]

The real shame for Labour is they would do a lot better if they even had a decent devolution proposal.
Mind you, watching the debate last night it’s clear Starmer doesn’t really have a plan for anything other than getting in the door in Downing Street.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis labour voter tends to agree.

He has the Tory media to deal with so I'm hoping that's why maybe he isn't giving a lot away.

He's no John Smith in a TV debate though

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[Bristolhibby]

Neither are career politicians but I get your point.


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TBF if you go from the Private Wonchester College to Oxford University to a Masters at Stanford in the States to an analyst at Goldman Sachs before becoming a Hedge Fund manager doesn’t really smack of doing anything tangible that benefits humanity.

Sounds like a standard career path for a lot of Tory MPs. The quintessential Career Politician.

Starmer at least earned his spurs passing the 11 plus, getting a degree, post grad at Oxford, called to the Bar, earned Queens Council and becoming the Director of Public Prosecutions.

J

[Andy Bee]

This one could get interesting from a car crash TV kinda perspective.....https://x.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1798317798244151473

[Moulin Yarns]

Latest Yougov Poll after farage announced he was standing.


https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49626-general-election-2024-how-have-our-methodology-changes-affected-voting-intention

Reform only 2 points behind Conservative!!!

[marinello59]

Latest Yougov Poll after farage announced he was standing.


https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49626-general-election-2024-how-have-our-methodology-changes-affected-voting-intention

Reform only 2 points behind Conservative!!!

I can see the two of them merging in to one party after the election.

[Keith_M]

I can see the two of them merging in to one party after the election.


Aren't the words 'reform' and 'conservative' the polar opposite?


Although in politics, words and phrases can turn out to mean something very different, like 'an oven ready deal'

[Bostonhibby]

I can see the two of them merging in to one party after the election.Handy to have all your rotten/rotting fish in the same barrel, or am I mixing metaphors for politics sake?[emoji16]

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[cabbageandribs1875]

the PA to Farage sounds a lovely chap Tom Scott 🇺🇦 on X: "Never mind the milkshake. The real #Clacton story is that Nigel Farage is being escorted by fraudster & convicted felon "Posh George" Cottrell. More on Cottrell and various other crooks with whom Farage has close links in this by me for @BylineTimes. https://t.co/rk90hsko1l (https://x.com/Tom___Scott/status/1798004050396643533) https://t.co/bZLQ7TXiaJ" / X

[BroxburnHibee]

The Rutherglen by-election may have been held under unique circumstances but it revealed the first real rejection of the SNP in years. There was a recent poll suggesting 20% of those who voted SNP the last time will switch directly to Labour this time. You have to assume they were Yes voters. There is something more going in here in Scotland than simply getting the Tories out .
The SNP are lucky, support for Independence has seen them defy the normal laws of political gravity. No doubt there will be some who blame the media and dark forces working against them but the realists in the party will realise that it needs to be reinvigorated from top to bottom, to much of the electorate, fairly or not, they simply look stale and out of ideas.

I agree with that but the trouble is they will spin it as "Scotland rejects independence" and continue making the same mistakes

[Jones28]

David Mundell just walked past my house, leaflet through the door with the usual message: "Vote for me to stop the SNP", he literally has **** all else going for him.

The series of testimonials on the leaflet were all from people over 45/50, all of whom vote for him to...eh...stop the SNP.

Oddly enough all the leafleters were youngish - probably brought in for efficiency from the YLT - Young Lean Tories.

[Kato]

Imagine getting up in the morning in Aberdeenshire and Moray West on election morning and thinking "I'll vote for Douglas Ross today, he seems worth voting for."

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[marinello59]

Imagine getting up in the morning in Aberdeenshire and Moray West on election morning and thinking "I'll vote for Douglas Ross today, he seems worth voting for."

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It’s a straight Tory / SNP battle there, has been for decades, the other parties barely register. The early SNP MPs in the region such as Hamish Watt had joined straight from the Tory party and took a large working class Tory vote ( I know but it used to a thing.:greengrin) with them. It won’t be happening in the numbers it used to but voters do still switch directly between the two parties up there.

[Colr]

Sunak needed an awful lot better than a score draw. At times, the audience was laughing at both of them, which is a sign of where a lot of people are with politics in general and it's the governing party who will take the brunt of that. Interesting news breaking that £2000 tax rise which has been 100% independently arrived at by the Civil Service, is maybe not so independent. If that's true, then maybe Starmer was right to let it drift and sink in.

Well, if you take it at face value it’S £2k per household. That’s £1k each for me and Mrs. Colr as we both work. It’s over 4 years, so £250 a year for me, or £21 a month. For functional public services? Sounds like a bargain!

Using the same approach for the Tory’s plans suggests a £3k hike! For worse public services which are already falling apart!

[Jack]

Imagine getting up in the morning in Aberdeenshire and Moray West on election morning and thinking "I'll vote for Douglas Ross today, he seems worth voting for."

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Just his mum I'd imagine.

[grunt]

Sunak leaves D Day celebrations early to jet home for a TV interview, missing a meeting with international heads of state. Next day he has to apologise for this crass error of judgement. Then it appears that his original plan was not to attend at all.

I think this man's judgement is highly suspect.

[Berwickhibby]

Sunak leaves D Day celebrations early to jet home for a TV interview, missing a meeting with international heads of state. Next day he has to apologise for this crass error of judgement. Then it appears that his original plan was not to attend at all.

I think this man's judgement is highly suspect.

He is a self centred Tory….did you expect anything less from the cretin

[marinello59]

Sunak leaves D Day celebrations early to jet home for a TV interview, missing a meeting with international heads of state. Next day he has to apologise for this crass error of judgement. Then it appears that his original plan was not to attend at all.

I think this man's judgement is highly suspect.

I think he is making sure that he loses. The USA beckons. :greengrin

[BroxburnHibee]

I think he is making sure that he loses. The USA beckons. :greengrin

Think he's trying to lose his own seat now...

[grunt]

He is a self centred Tory….did you expect anything less from the cretin
Well, he IS the Prime Minister, so yes I'd expect a certain basic level of political awareness. But as you say, he's not very bright, it seems.

[Col2]

This Sunak D-Day shambles is the end of him politically.

The level of anger is only just building and all Starmer and co need to do is through this at him in future debates.

It would not surprise me if he stepped down by the end of the weekend. California beckons even earlier than mid July……

[grunt]

David Duguid setting out the facts.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPdO2Fwa8AA2dXB?format=png&name=medium

[Stairway 2 7]

Sunak leaves D Day celebrations early to jet home for a TV interview, missing a meeting with international heads of state. Next day he has to apologise for this crass error of judgement. Then it appears that his original plan was not to attend at all.

I think this man's judgement is highly suspect.

Yes I'm with you. A bit too ridiculous going to do an interview whilst Cameron stands with Macron, Biden and Scholz. He wouldn't stick cameron for the g7 photos so why for the leaders photos that will be shown round the world.

[Bostonhibby]

Yes I'm with you. A bit too ridiculous going to do an interview whilst Cameron stands with Macron, Biden and Scholz. He wouldn't stick cameron for the g7 photos so why for the leaders photos that will be shown round the world.Sunak's not really a leader in the sense of the word, and in any event he was foisted on the country by a very small unrepresentative minority who previously thought Dim Lizzie was leader material.

I doubt the waiter feels particularly comfortable amongst the world leaders and genuinely thought he could palm this event off to another unelected figure whilst he got the more stage managed interview.

He is about to find out what the electorate thinks of his and his parties "leadership".

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[overdrive]

Sunak's not really a leader in the sense of the word, and in any event he was foisted on the country by a very small unrepresentative minority who previously thought Dim Lizzie was leader material.

I doubt the waiter feels particularly comfortable amongst the world leaders and genuinely thought he could palm this event off to another unelected figure whilst he got the more stage managed interview.

He is about to find out what the electorate thinks of his and his parties "leadership".

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He knows and I think he's doing everything he can to make 100% sure it happens. He wants to be on a Californian beach.

[H18 SFR]

If Sunak walked away now and said he is not standing for election (however unlikely) where would this leave things?

[marinello59]

If Sunak walked away now and said he is not standing for election (however unlikely) where would this leave things?

The election would carry on, we are voting for our local MP , not PM. The Tories would be in a bit of a pickle though. :greengrin

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If Sunak walked away now and said he is not standing for election (however unlikely) where would this leave things?

It would leave the Tories with more of a chance.

[grunt]

I get into trouble on here when I suggest that stupid people shouldn't be allowed to vote.
And then I see this.

https://x.com/TheNewsAgents/status/1799111657505104287

[lapsedhibee]

If Sunak walked away now and said he is not standing for election (however unlikely) where would this leave things?
It would leave a nice opening for Farage to jump ship from his party/company and join the Tory party on the condition/understanding that he becomes its leader.

[Moulin Yarns]

It would leave the Tories with more of a chance.

And Labour are doing all they can to help.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyrre1576n5o

.

[Bostonhibby]

The election would carry on, we are voting for our local MP , not PM. The Tories would be in a bit of a pickle though. :greengrinThey could always get a small group of well heeled blue rinse Tories to pick the next person who will run the country on behalf of the many millions who didn't, and wouldn't vote for them?

Just like last time etc.....

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[H18 SFR]

Now Lord Cameron - what are these absolute clown like?

Beyond complacent.

[marinello59]

Now Lord Cameron - what are these absolute clown like?

Beyond complacent.

What’s he done? Not another pig?

[Bostonhibby]

What’s he done? Not another pig?Been scrapping at a West Villa Utd soccer meet?

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[H18 SFR]

What’s he done? Not another pig?

Been hoaxed into sharing sensitive info and contact details to the supposed ex Ukrainian president only it wasn’t the Ex President.

[Moulin Yarns]

What’s he done? Not another pig?

Held a hoax video call with someone who he thought was a former Ukrainian president. 🤣

[Moulin Yarns]

BBC debate, maurdant just shouted and kept repeating Labour £2000 tax rise. Rayner, awful, out of her depth. Flynn got a few applause from the London audience. Farage grinning all the way through and blamed immigrants.

[H18 SFR]

Held a hoax video call with someone who he thought was a former Ukrainian president. 🤣

The end of the call has been released:

https://x.com/Staffs_Saddler/status/1799159947248255129

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/447997355_7756540574402706_310489771042334224_n.jp g?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=3IbRWbeQ6IUQ7kNvgGhmuDl&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AYAtOFSMq-SBL5pGcES7Phg-rY6a5PSrTw7kE6XPAMCAVQ&oe=666935BC

[Paul1642]

Now Lord Cameron - what are these absolute clown like?

Beyond complacent.

Is it still a Labour policy to scrap the House of Lords? Jobs for the boys if ever any existed.

[Ozyhibby]

BBC debate, maurdant just shouted and kept repeating Labour £2000 tax rise. Rayner, awful, out of her depth. Flynn got a few applause from the London audience. Farage grinning all the way through and blamed immigrants.

SNP need to get Flynn in front of the media as much as possible. Excellent communicator. I think he’ll be on Holyrood list in 2026 and leader soon after.


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[marinello59]

SNP need to get Flynn in front of the media as much as possible. Excellent communicator. I think he’ll be on Holyrood list in 2026 and leader soon after.


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He is fantastic at communicating with those who already vote Yes.

He is that rarity though , somebody on the Yes side with a sense of humour. I like him.

[Stairway 2 7]

Yougov has Rayner on top, this moreincomon poll is grimm though, just blamed immigrants. Personally think Rayner won and Flynn did well, Mordaunt had no chance as had to defend Sunak

@PolitlcsUK
🚨 BREAKING: Nigel Farage won the BBC debate

Nigel Farage - 25%
Angela Rayner - 19%
None of the above - 14%
Carla Denyer - 11%
Stephen Flynn - 10%
Penny Mordaunt - 7%
Daisy Cooper - 5%
Rhun ap Iowerth - 2%
Don’t know - 8%

1,031 Viewers
Via
@Moreincommon_

[Stairway 2 7]

After watching this I'm actually going to spoil my ballot paper, Jesus brutal thought it was a parody. Politicians talk Taylor Swift

https://x.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/1799068612897960134

[147lothian]

I just think of this as the none of the above election, I'll probably find anything more interesting interesting on the 4th July than going to a polling booth.

[Just Alf]

Whoever means a guaranteed loss for the Conservative will get my vote, not even checked who's standing yet.

I wouldn't be able to forgive myself if I did nothing and they scraped back in :-/

[grunt]

I just think of this as the none of the above election, I'll probably find anything more interesting interesting on the 4th July than going to a polling booth.
I will never understand the thinking of people who decide not to vote.

[Northernhibee]

Tories level with Reform at 18% according to Redfield Wilton.

Genuinely concerned with the rise of Reform, they are pretty far right, more so than the Tories.

[JimBHibees]

Yougov has Rayner on top, this moreincomon poll is grimm though, just blamed immigrants. Personally think Rayner won and Flynn did well, Mordaunt had no chance as had to defend Sunak

@PolitlcsUK
🚨 BREAKING: Nigel Farage won the BBC debate

Nigel Farage - 25%
Angela Rayner - 19%
None of the above - 14%
Carla Denyer - 11%
Stephen Flynn - 10%
Penny Mordaunt - 7%
Daisy Cooper - 5%
Rhun ap Iowerth - 2%
Don’t know - 8%

1,031 Viewers
Via
@Moreincommon_

Guardian saying Flynn clear winner

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/07/well-that-was-dignified-key-takeaways-of-bbc-general-election-debate

[Stairway 2 7]

Guardian saying Flynn clear winner

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/07/well-that-was-dignified-key-takeaways-of-bbc-general-election-debate

They aren't going to say Farage, Telegraph said Mordaunt won ha. I think Flynn done really well especially bringing the elephant of brexit into the room. He needs a Scottish seat pronto

I don't think the debates change much mind. Corbyn and Boris polled similar in their two debates and then Boris demolished him in the election

[Hibrandenburg]

They aren't going to say Farage, Telegraph said Mordaunt won ha. I think Flynn done really well especially bringing the elephant of brexit into the room. He needs a Scottish seat pronto

I don't think the debates change much mind. Corbyn and Boris polled similar in their two debates and then Boris demolished him in the election

We have to accept that the UK as a whole is a Tory country that occasionally votes Labour, even this time round you could argue that we'll get a Tory government, they may call themselves Labour but have many characteristics of traditional Tories.

[Paul1642]

They aren't going to say Farage, Telegraph said Mordaunt won ha. I think Flynn done really well especially bringing the elephant of brexit into the room. He needs a Scottish seat pronto

I don't think the debates change much mind. Corbyn and Boris polled similar in their two debates and then Boris demolished him in the election

The only people who watch these debates are those who are pretty interested in politics. People who are interested in politics will mostly already have their mind well and truly made up.

[Stairway 2 7]

We have to accept that the UK as a whole is a Tory country that occasionally votes Labour, even this time round you could argue that we'll get a Tory government, they may call themselves Labour but have many characteristics of traditional Tories.

Nah under 40s aren't turning right for the first time ever. Old people vote in much higher numbers but we're going to have a different landscape for the next 50 years. Tories are going to move to the centre once these under 40s age. Politics in the next 50 years is going to be different to the last 50

Scotland isn't much different tbf. Support for Labour has rocketed since Starmer came to power and leading in most polls.

[DaveF]

Nah under 40s aren't turning right for the first time ever. Old people vote in much higher numbers but we're going to have a different landscape for the next 50 years. Tories are going to move to the centre once these under 40s age. Politics in the next 50 years is going to be different to the last 50

Scotland isn't much different tbf. Support for Labour has rocketed since Starmer came to power and leading in most polls.

They are maybe not turning right as you put it but they are voting for what is traditional Tories (IE What Labour is today) so it's not really that different to me.

I may change that view after 5 years of Starmer but I don't think I'll have to.

[Stairway 2 7]

They are maybe not turning right as you put it but they are voting for what is traditional Tories (IE What Labour is today) so it's not really that different to me.

I may change that view after 5 years of Starmer but I don't think I'll have to.

They aren't really voting at all. Voting is ridiculously weighted to older people so takes a long time to filter through.

The data on people not growing conservative comes from the huge British Election Study that happens every year. From post war every generation slowly moved right since they aged . Remarkably millennials aren't like every other generation, even if they start to they are starting from much further left. We're going to see an uncharted landscape.

It's a Pity it's the older and more right winger who vote, I'll need to wait patiently

[Hibrandenburg]

They aren't really voting at all. Voting is ridiculously weighted to older people so takes a long time to filter through.

The data on people not growing conservative comes from the huge British Election Study that happens every year. From post war every generation slowly moved right since they aged . Remarkably millennials aren't like every other generation, even if they start to they are starting from much further left. We're going to see an uncharted landscape.

It's a Pity it's the older and more right winger who vote, I'll need to wait patiently

I'm not convinced. As DaveF rightly points out, the whole political landscape has edged to the right, I think it's more likely that the whole spectrum moving right has left those like myself who were previously considered to be centre left, now considered to be looney left.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm not convinced. As DaveF rightly points out, the whole political landscape has edged to the right, I think it's more likely that the whole spectrum moving right has left those like myself who were previously considered to be centre left, now considered to be looney left.

But you're still talking about the post 40s ages no. I'm talking about the future. The difference in opinions in the older and younger generations is remarkable and wider than it literally has ever been. This is the right wing tories last hurrah they will have a real problem for the next 50 years.

Never mind national service for teens it's the oldies that is hurting the uk

An article on the Conservatives generational problem, it'll take a few decades to show though
https://archive.ph/HsZCg

Millennials are shattering the oldest rule in politics
Western conservatives are at risk from generations of voters who are no longer moving to the right as they age

[Ozyhibby]

Nah under 40s aren't turning right for the first time ever. Old people vote in much higher numbers but we're going to have a different landscape for the next 50 years. Tories are going to move to the centre once these under 40s age. Politics in the next 50 years is going to be different to the last 50

Scotland isn't much different tbf. Support for Labour has rocketed since Starmer came to power and leading in most polls.

Has support for Labour rocketed? Or has the Tory vote just split in two?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Has support for Labour rocketed? Or has the Tory vote just split in two?


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Nah the torys vote dropping doesn't cover two thirds of it, loads have switched from SNP to Labour. SNP should have focused on they voters the last 5 years rather staunch yes SNP voters. Let's get independence first then we will become fairer post that imo

[Ozyhibby]

Nah the torys vote dropping doesn't cover two thirds of it, loads have switched from SNP to Labour. SNP should have focused on they voters the last 5 years rather staunch yes SNP voters. Let's get independence first then we will become fairer post that imo

We won’t get that voting for Labour.


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[JimBHibees]

They aren't going to say Farage, Telegraph said Mordaunt won ha. I think Flynn done really well especially bringing the elephant of brexit into the room. He needs a Scottish seat pronto

I don't think the debates change much mind. Corbyn and Boris polled similar in their two debates and then Boris demolished him in the election

They could have said Rayner. The exchange between Rayner and Mordaunt was embarrassing how poor was the person chairing it.

[JimBHibees]

He is fantastic at communicating with those who already vote Yes.

He is that rarity though , somebody on the Yes side with a sense of humour. I like him.

:greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

They could have said Rayner. The exchange between Rayner and Mordaunt was embarrassing how poor was the person chairing it.

Could have but It's just an opinion like the telegraph. I thought Rayner and Flynn done best but I agree with a lot of what they say so I'm not neutral.

What I'm surprised about is all be it small polls Rayner done well with women but men said she was inexperienced. Probably why all our leaders are men in UK and Scotland. Sarwar will probably beat Swinney and most SNP want Flynn to beat him if it's him. We get the occasional female but many males think female politicians aren't up to it or are moaning.

Ps not you you've just said Flynn did well I agree he was great as I've said for a year, I want him as leader pronto

[Stairway 2 7]

We won’t get that voting for Labour.


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I know but the public dont or don't care about similar stuff. This forum isn't a Scottish average or most would be Labour supporters, loads of tories and about the same who favours green and reform

[Andy Bee]

I know but the public dont or don't care about similar stuff. This forum isn't a Scottish average or most would be Labour supporters, loads of tories and about the same who favours green and reform

Or maybe this forum is a true reflection and the polls are manufactured to suit an agenda. :greengrin

[marinello59]

We won’t get that voting for Labour.


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The SNP seem to have given up on it as well. It was barely mentioned by Flynn last night. Swinney has said he was sticking with this being a de-facto referendum yet the leadership have decided Independence will not be mentioned next to SNP on the ballot paper.

[Stairway 2 7]

Or maybe this forum is a true reflection and the polls are manufactured to suit an agenda. :greengrin

Well then if so SNP are going to bring home all mps the defacto referendum is in the bag ha

[grunt]

What I'm surprised about is all be it small polls Rayner done well with women but men said she was inexperienced. Probably why all our leaders are men in UK and Scotland. Sarwar will probably beat Swinney and most SNP want Flynn to beat him if it's him. We get the occasional female but many males think female politicians aren't up to it or are moaning.
Yeah. Nicola Sturgeon, FM / Leader of the SNP for 9 years, widely considered one of the most popular politicians of her generation.

[JimBHibees]

Yeah. Nicola Sturgeon, FM / Leader of the SNP for 9 years, widely considered one of the most popular politicians of her generation.

Liz Truss was good. Always thought Yvette Cooper could be a decent leader. Scottish parties have had a number of women leaders.

[Stairway 2 7]

Yeah. Nicola Sturgeon, FM / Leader of the SNP for 9 years, widely considered one of the most popular politicians of her generation.

You've highlighted a fact that all leaders of the main parties in the uk and Scotland are male to prove my point? Saying 1 in 15 political leaders including Truss, Sturgeon and May doesn't really equate a win. Biggest 4 parties in Westminster lead by men Biggest 5 in Scotland, shouldn't it be 50/50. Which females are going to take over the top parties in uk scot, maybe Mordaunt at the tories Rayner with Lab but Burnham favorite. You can't say there is a fair balance

Scotland is better than some 52% of the pop is female 45% of msps, 35% of local councillors, 27% of council leaders

[Andy Bee]

The SNP seem to have given up on it as well. It was barely mentioned by Flynn last night. Swinney has said he was sticking with this being a de-facto referendum yet the leadership have decided Independence will not be mentioned next to SNP on the ballot paper.




Could it be they're trying to appeal to soft No voters who also like the benefits we get here in Scotland and either vote SNP already or are close to voting? One thing was noticeable about Flynn in the debate, he made sure everyone knew what Scottish people get above what happens in England i.e. the remark to the trainee doctor on free tuition here. There was also a dig at water companies, nurses being paid more, no strikes, the Scottish Child Payment, and the main one of cuts coming down the line from both main parties. A sort of mini Project Fear? Why go all out Indy mental when most of those voters are locked in anyway?

[JimBHibees]

Could it be they're trying to appeal to soft No voters who also like the benefits we get here in Scotland and either vote SNP already or are close to voting? One thing was noticeable about Flynn in the debate, he made sure everyone knew what Scottish people get above what happens in England i.e. the remark to the trainee doctor on free tuition here. There was also a dig at water companies, nurses being paid more, no strikes, the Scottish Child Payment, and the main one of cuts coming down the line from both main parties. A sort of mini Project Fear? Why go all out Indy mental when most of those voters are locked in anyway?

Very good post that is why the two leader debate construct was a nonsense as it didn’t allow alternate policies or approaches to be raised particularly parties who do govern. Was imo deliberate intention to silence that voice and hence why the two parties were happy with it. No idea why Liberals weren’t kicking up massively, maybe they were but the media didn’t listen.

[Hibs4185]

Could it be they're trying to appeal to soft No voters who also like the benefits we get here in Scotland and either vote SNP already or are close to voting? One thing was noticeable about Flynn in the debate, he made sure everyone knew what Scottish people get above what happens in England i.e. the remark to the trainee doctor on free tuition here. There was also a dig at water companies, nurses being paid more, no strikes, the Scottish Child Payment, and the main one of cuts coming down the line from both main parties. A sort of mini Project Fear? Why go all out Indy mental when most of those voters are locked in anyway?

I actually think this is a good independence strategy. *iss of all the English nationalist Brexit nutters. Tell them how much money we get, tell them we get free this and free that.

Basically try and get all these people to put pressure on the government to grant the independence motion so they can get rid of us sponging scottish.

The reason I mention this….seen a post about Scotland the other day on twitter and the number of English raging because we get more money per person blah blah blah.

[grunt]

Tories not best pleased with Sunak

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPkzE8QXcAEtyJD?format=jpg&name=medium

[SHODAN]

We have to accept that the UK as a whole is a Tory country that occasionally votes Labour, even this time round you could argue that we'll get a Tory government, they may call themselves Labour but have many characteristics of traditional Tories.

Once under 40s can swing elections this will change pretty much overnight, and I don't think the ruling class either accept this will happen or have a plan for it.

[Stairway 2 7]

Tories not best pleased with Sunak

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPkzE8QXcAEtyJD?format=jpg&name=medium

Love blue on blue violence ha. It's true though Charles went whilst getting cancer treatment, Zelensky has quite a lot going on! But Sunak had too busy a schedule to pay his respects. It's just natural for these tories to think of only themselves

[Stairway 2 7]

Once under 40s can swing elections this will change pretty much overnight, and I don't think the ruling class either accept this will happen or have a plan for it.

It's why the housing crisis being ignored is a ticking time bomb and the main parties aren't interested. Labour won't be any better when in power and they will get what they deserve if the youth vote moved to a more liberal party. There could be space for a group to the left just like reform has grew in the right

[Bostonhibby]

Love blue on blue violence ha. It's true though Charles went whilst getting cancer treatment, Zelensky has quite a lot going on! But Sunak had too busy a schedule to pay his respects. It's just natural for these tories to think of only themselvesTories being tories.

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[Ozyhibby]

It's why the housing crisis being ignored is a ticking time bomb and the main parties aren't interested. Labour won't be any better when in power and they will get what they deserve if the youth vote moved to a more liberal party. There could be space for a group to the left just like reform has grew in the right

The real danger is if reform start talking about it and start offering solutions at the more extreme end.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The real danger is if reform start talking about it and start offering solutions at the more extreme end.


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Yeah defo, reform will get a lot of their votes from disenfranchised ex Labour voters I'd bet. Loads down south would love to vote a version of the SNP I'd bet, hopefully Labour at least give more powers to regions where there are some decent mayor's

[marinello59]

Did Swinney film that Party Election broadcast on his phone? It’s gonna be tough for the other parties to out cringe that one. I loved it for all the wrong reasons. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Did Swinney film that Party Election broadcast on his phone? It’s gonna be tough for the other parties to out cringe that one. I loved it for all the wrong reasons. :greengrin

I’ve no idea what you’re talking about but is it possible it’s a TikTok video?


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[marinello59]

I’ve no idea what you’re talking about but is it possible it’s a TikTok video?


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No. It was lower budget than that. :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

does someone have to be "left wing" to have a serious dislike for Farage

(3) Nigel Farage on X: "My huge thanks to South Yorkshire Police today. I will not be bullied or cowed by a violent left-wing mob who hate our country. https://t.co/40Zu56KcBL" / X (https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1800481450476908805)

[J-C]

does someone have to be "left wing" to have a serious dislike for Farage

(3) Nigel Farage on X: "My huge thanks to South Yorkshire Police today. I will not be bullied or cowed by a violent left-wing mob who hate our country. https://t.co/40Zu56KcBL" / X (https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1800481450476908805)

Left wing mob, looked more like 1 jakey haha.

[Bostonhibby]

does someone have to be "left wing" to have a serious dislike for Farage

(3) Nigel Farage on X: "My huge thanks to South Yorkshire Police today. I will not be bullied or cowed by a violent left-wing mob who hate our country. https://t.co/40Zu56KcBL" / X (https://x.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1800481450476908805)Implication is hating nasty nige equates to being left wing and/or hating "our country".

I know quite a few right wingers who are Tory voting union Jack wavers and they really don't like the grifting wee spitting image puppet either.

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[marinello59]

The Tory manifesto is a belter, cut taxes, stop immigration and introduce National Service for 18 year olds. And best of all let the poor pay for it by making huge savings on the welfare budget. I don't think that will be enough for the right wing of his party, my money is on them releasing their list of alternative demands next week.

Meanwhile the pain for Douglas Ross increases, this really is the election that keeps giving. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

The Tory manifesto is a belter, cut taxes, stop immigration and introduce National Service for 18 year olds. And best of all let the poor pay for it by making huge savings on the welfare budget. I don't think that will be enough for the right wing of his party, my money is on them releasing their list of alternative demands next week.

Meanwhile the pain for Douglas Ross increases, this really is the election that keeps giving. :greengrin

Fun in the short term but the massive move to the right that is happening just now will have consequences.
If Labour don’t turn round economy and things are just as bad 5 years from now, who would bet against a new reform/Conservative party led by Farage winning an election?
Even if they don’t, look how far right they are dragging Labour now. An unpopular Starmer mid term will happily move further.
I can say I’m enjoying some of the personal discomfort for some of these charlatans but I’m not enjoying the direction of travel.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Fun in the short term but the massive move to the right that is happening just now will have consequences.
If Labour don’t turn round economy and things are just as bad 5 years from now, who would bet against a new reform/Conservative party led by Farage winning an election?
Even if they don’t, look how far right they are dragging Labour now. An unpopular Starmer mid term will happily move further.
I can say I’m enjoying some of the personal discomfort for some of these charlatans but I’m not enjoying the direction of travel.


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Sometimes need to stop and be happy with good events, we're about the only western European country that is going to move to the left of where we are now. Extreme right just made huge gains in the EU parliament, Germany will be moving right, Italy and Holland have voted in openly fascists, France could have a majority party who Farage refused to team up in the EU parliament as they are too far right for him.

Starmer is pretty close to Blair which is centre right it's depressing but could be worse. CPI Inflation will be low for the next 5 years and BOE rate will drop, growth is expected to be 2% 2026, then 1.8 per cent the following year, and 1.7 per cent in 2028. Things will seem rosy compared to the last 10

The papers will attack but I'll be putting money on Labour winning 2 terms, I can't see the swings needed for anything else. Farage gets a specific group but he's no chance with the more educated middle swing voter

[Jack]

The Tory manifesto is a belter, cut taxes, stop immigration and introduce National Service for 18 year olds. And best of all let the poor pay for it by making huge savings on the welfare budget. I don't think that will be enough for the right wing of his party, my money is on them releasing their list of alternative demands next week.

Meanwhile the pain for Douglas Ross increases, this really is the election that keeps giving. :greengrin

A manifesto stretches the truth as it is!

After 14 years of lying and gaslighting why should anyone believe them now?

[Stairway 2 7]

A manifesto stretches the truth as it is!

After 14 years of lying and gaslighting why should anyone believe them now?

Exactly. Why? We will change this or that, no fancy doing it the last 14 years. I think the public feels the same thankfully

[marinello59]

Exactly. Why? We will change this or that, no fancy doing it the last 14 years. I think the public feels the same thankfully

Yeah, they are fooling no one anymore.

[Andy Bee]

Personally I think they should get back in for another 5 years, it'll save everyone 5 years of their lives, win win :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Personally I think they should get back in for another 5 years, it'll save everyone 5 years of their lives, win win :greengrin

It'll literally cost people lives lose lose, plus I don't want to send the worst of in life to Rwanda

[Andy Bee]

It'll literally cost people lives lose lose, plus I don't want to send the worst of in life to Rwanda

Exactly, that's why I jokingly suggested it. Austerity costs lives and there's more coming down the line. Anyone who thinks there's going to be some vast difference between the two main parties are either too young to remember or deluding themselves.

[marinello59]

Exactly, that's why I jokingly suggested it. Austerity costs lives and there's more coming down the line. Anyone who thinks there's going to be some vast difference between the two main parties are either too young to remember or deluding themselves.

Anybody who thinks there is any major difference between the economic thinking of Reeves and Forbes will be deluding themselves as well.
Vore Socialist if you believe in real change. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Anybody who thinks there is any major difference between the economic thinking of Reeves and Forbes will be deluding themselves as well.
Vore Socialist if you believe in real change. :greengrin

All dozen or so main parties in the uk are neoliberal and similar, there is enough to chose in their differences though to make a big difference. I think some thrive of saying there is zero difference for their gain

[Andy Bee]

Anybody who thinks there is any major difference between the economic thinking of Reeves and Forbes will be deluding themselves as well.
Vore Socialist if you believe in real change. :greengrin


I'm in, do I get a discount on that funky club in Manchester big Tommy frequented?

[Andy Bee]

In all seriousness this explanation to why we need Scottish Independence in an economical sense is crucial and needs to be shown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzW1ILm67f8

[Stairway 2 7]

Just watched the Scottish debate jeeesus.

Swinney got slayed as expected, what was the plan him to flounder as expected. Many are saying Slater came off the worse but greens are polling behind reform in Scotland so who cares. A joke including Ross

[weecounty hibby]

Anybody who thinks there is any major difference between the economic thinking of Reeves and Forbes will be deluding themselves as well.
Vore Socialist if you believe in real change. :greengrin

Yip, the IFS have said that both Labour and tories manifesto will reduce public spending by £18b. They both oppose joining the EU, they have very similar views on immigration. Unite have refused to back the Labour manifesto and GMB are very likely to do the same

[GlesgaeHibby]

Just watched the Scottish debate jeeesus.

Swinney got slayed as expected, what was the plan him to flounder as expected. Many are saying Slater came off the worse but greens are polling behind reform in Scotland so who cares. A joke including Ross

Listened to Good Morning Scotland on the way in to work this morning and there was a Reform UK chap saying that Lorna Slater made the best two points during the debate (massive transfer of wealth to richest in society over past few years, and government needing to make money to spend money). Felt like I'd woke up in an alternative universe hearing that.

[Bostonhibby]

At least we now know.

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1800774166234194224?t=pG4fPvEjaEUzGsxizaXOug&s=08https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240612/15c35c19e675e4be980dd782ddedabb1.jpg

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[overdrive]

At least we now know.

https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1800774166234194224?t=pG4fPvEjaEUzGsxizaXOug&s=08https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240612/15c35c19e675e4be980dd782ddedabb1.jpg

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Apparently not having Sky TV when growing up was an example of his "sacrifices". Had to watch it a few times as I initially thought it was an AI spoof.

[Bostonhibby]

Apparently not having Sky TV when growing up was an example of his "sacrifices". Had to watch it a few times as I initially thought it was an AI spoof.Thought the same as you, in some ways it would be better if it was from a humanity/humility angle.

This guy could just be one of the most toxic/dangerous of the entire nasty party if all this is correct as he seems to have no moral compass and doesn't really care about or appreciate the consequences of what he says so long as he thinks it furthers his own cause and image. He seems to just make it up as he goes along as opposed to actually having a manifesto and a link to past pledges.

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[Ozyhibby]

Apparently not having Sky TV when growing up was an example of his "sacrifices". Had to watch it a few times as I initially thought it was an AI spoof.

Only a matter of time till they find an old pic of him outside his house with a sky dish on it.


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[Jack]

I suspect his most distressing time growing up was the gap between his nanny leaving and his butler being employed.

[marinello59]

I'm in, do I get a discount on that funky club in Manchester big Tommy frequented?

He redefined the meaning of Party Politics. :greengrin

[Paulie Walnuts]

Apparently not having Sky TV when growing up was an example of his "sacrifices". Had to watch it a few times as I initially thought it was an AI spoof.

Yeah Rishi… think there’s a slight difference between not having something and not being able to have something.

David Beckham doesn’t have a Bugatti. He’s not ‘doing without’ one though. He just chooses not to have one.

[Moulin Yarns]

Only a matter of time till they find an old pic of him outside his house with a sky dish on it.


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A quick bit of research, he would be 4 when sky tv started.

[marinello59]

Just watched the Scottish debate jeeesus.

Swinney got slayed as expected, what was the plan him to flounder as expected. Many are saying Slater came off the worse but greens are polling behind reform in Scotland so who cares. A joke including Ross

Just watched it on catch up. Swinney was dreadful, his best days are far behind him, maybe the bench was the best place for him. His mascot Slater got a bit too overexcited, remined me of the time Leith Lynx lost the plot and decided to save every shot the kids took at him during the ten second challenge. Initially entertaining but ultimately cringeworthy. Awful. The LibDem played the Brian Kerr role well, I could see he was there but I'm struggling to recall any significant contribution. Sarwar impressed initially but struggled in the end, not a ninety minute player I fear. The linesman kept raising his flag at the wrong time,clueless twat. I shouted '******!' at the TV every time he spoke.

[marinello59]

All dozen or so main parties in the uk are neoliberal and similar, there is enough to chose in their differences though to make a big difference. I think some thrive of saying there is zero difference for their gain

I do agree. And so do wiser heads in the SNP who have tried to point out that claiming the Tories and Labour are the exactly same are only fooling themselves.
There's still not a big enough difference for me though. :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

I suspect his most distressing time growing up was the gap between his nanny leaving and his butler being employed.

No doubt incredible sacrifice not having Sky tv at the same time as vast swathes of the public are likely going without food or heating. An absolute piece of work. For what’s it’s worth thought Robinson gave him a pretty essy time earlier in the week in the BBC interview

[Hibrandenburg]

Apparently not having Sky TV when growing up was an example of his "sacrifices". Had to watch it a few times as I initially thought it was an AI spoof.

:singing: There'll be no Sky News in Winchester this Christmas time :singing:

[Ozyhibby]

Starmer seems to be abandoning Labour on live TV.[emoji102][emoji51]


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[H18 SFR]

Starmer seems to be abandoning Labour on live TV.[emoji102][emoji51]


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He’s really caught my attention tonight. I haven’t really listened to him much over the last year or so but he’s really leaving an impression on me. I think I’ve finally decided who I’m voting for.

[Ozyhibby]

He’s really caught my attention tonight. I haven’t really listened to him much over the last year or so but he’s really leaving an impression on me. I think I’ve finally decided who I’m voting for.

I’d say he had a good night overall but will have annoyed some traditional Labour voters.


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[Keith_M]

Starmer seems to be abandoning Labour on live TV.[emoji102][emoji51]


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What did he say?

[H18 SFR]

I’d say he had a good night overall but will have annoyed some traditional Labour voters.


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I felt he handled Rigby very well when she wanted to make out he was a Corbyn’ite. He’s clearly not to be fair.

[Hibby70]

I actually think Beth Rigby is going to make Rishi cry soon. He's getting a doing.

[Ozyhibby]

I felt he handled Rigby very well when she wanted to make out he was a Corbyn’ite. He’s clearly not to be fair.

She wasn’t trying to make him look like a corbynite, she was asking why we should believe him now when he has previously tried to sell us Corbyn. It was a fair line of questioning and more effective than whe the Tories try paint him as a Corbynite, when, as you say, he’s clearly not.


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[DaveF]

Did Starmer mention factories and toolmaking?

[H18 SFR]

Did Starmer mention factories and toolmaking?

He did, it was quite funny to be fair to him. He played the room well coming across as having a good sense of humour.

[Hibs4185]

he’s really caught my attention tonight. I haven’t really listened to him much over the last year or so but he’s really leaving an impression on me. I think i’ve finally decided who i’m voting for.

snp?

[H18 SFR]

snp?

Not for me no.

[Northernhibee]

Sunak is living proof that as long as you’ve been to Oxford or Cambridge, you don’t need any talent whatsoever.

[JimBHibees]

Watched Swinney getting interviewed by Nick Robinson thought he came over well enough. Quite funny when Nick mentioned he would cover Brexit later in the interview then clearly didn’t. Must be underlined for every bbc reporter

[marinello59]

I actually think Beth Rigby is going to make Rishi cry soon. He's getting a doing.

I like Rigby, she is the ultimate political geek, she clearly loves what she does. She doesn’t do anybody any favours.

[JimBHibees]

I like Rigby, she is the ultimate political geek, she clearly loves what she does. She doesn’t do anybody any favours.

Who is she Sky? Had it in my head it was the mum of the soldier that died for some reason

[marinello59]

Who is she Sky? Had it in my head it was the mum of the soldier that died for some reason

Yes, Sky.

[JimBHibees]

Yes, Sky.

Cheers

[Hibrandenburg]

I like Rigby, she is the ultimate political geek, she clearly loves what she does. She doesn’t do anybody any favours.

I had to shout at her in my best Sergeant Major voice a few weeks back. She didn't even flinch, instead i got a cheeky smile. Nerves of steel that lady.

[Jack]

From Martin Lewis

Remember manifesto's are what the parties promise to do. The 'you owe us a political kicking if we don't' pledges and putting them in means, if elected, the House of Lords are less likely to reject.

Yet I've spoken to senior politicians of different parties who talk about other things they've ambitions to do if elected, but aren't in the manifesto, because 'you can only lock yourself into so much'.

[marinello59]

Two days, two manifesto launches.

I quite enjoyed the Green’s launch yesterday, very earnest presentation from the co-leaders offering a genuinely radical way forward with saving the planet from climate change at the heart of it. Shame we don’t have a Green Party worthy of the name up here to vote for.

Today ,Labour. Parking our own political hobbyhorses aside they managed to show they were offering genuine change without resorting to the tedious gesture politics of the past decade . It’s depressing that Starmer’s Labour is the best we have but the win is in the bag for them. After the last few years of political turmoil maybe slow and steady is a winning formula.

[Andy Bee]

Just watched the STV "debate", Farage is doing cartwheels about overtaking the Tories in the latest poll. He's promising the end of the House of Lords, more referendums on important issues, bringing in PR voting and raising the tax threshold to £20k. Could he actually end up the main opposition? :hmmm:

[marinello59]

Just watched the STV "debate", Farage is doing cartwheels about overtaking the Tories in the latest poll. He's promising the end of the House of Lords, more referendums on important issues, bringing in PR voting and raising the tax threshold to £20k. Could he actually end up the main opposition? :hmmm:

Sounds like he is angling to lead the SNP. :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

Two days, two manifesto launches.

I quite enjoyed the Green’s launch yesterday, very earnest presentation from the co-leaders offering a genuinely radical way forward with saving the planet from climate change at the heart of it. Shame we don’t have a Green Party worthy of the name up here to vote for.

Today ,Labour. Parking our own political hobbyhorses aside they managed to show they were offering genuine change without to the tedious gesture politics of the past decade . It’s depressing that Starmer’s Labour is the best we have but the win is in the bag for them. After the last few years of political turmoil maybe slow and steady is a winning formula.


Agreed, they seem to be the only progressive side of Westminster with a real vision, FWIW I think Caroline Lucas is one of the good guys in Parliament, she'll be a big miss. I just can't subscribe to Labour, I've tried to give them the benefit of the doubt but there's just nothing there.

[Andy Bee]

Sounds like he is angling to lead the SNP. :greengrin


Ahhh he wants loads of referendums but not the Scottish constitutional one. :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

Right, just getting suited up to watch Question Time on I Player, I've taken some extra measures this time and chosen to send the kids next door, I don't actually know the neighbours but Fred and Rose seem a nice couple and like kids so I'm comfortable they're safe there for the time being.

[marinello59]

Right, just getting suited up to watch Question Time on I Player, I've taken some extra measures this time and chosen to send the kids next door, I don't actually know the neighbours but Fred and Rose seem a nice couple and like kids so I'm comfortable they're safe there for the time being.

:greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

Right, just getting suited up to watch Question Time on I Player, I've taken some extra measures this time and chosen to send the kids next door, I don't actually know the neighbours but Fred and Rose seem a nice couple and like kids so I'm comfortable they're safe there for the time being.
What would be your review of QT last Night? I'm particularly keen to hear how you thought the host handled things

[JimBHibees]

Right, just getting suited up to watch Question Time on I Player, I've taken some extra measures this time and chosen to send the kids next door, I don't actually know the neighbours but Fred and Rose seem a nice couple and like kids so I'm comfortable they're safe there for the time being.

:faf:

[Hibby70]

What would be your review of QT last Night? I'm particularly keen to hear how you thought the host handled things

I thought Kate Forbes got a bit of unfair treatment compared to the others. Politician doesn't directly answer a question isn't exactly unusual but she seemed to get this pointed out much more than the others I felt.

I'm not an SNP supporter

[grunt]

I thought Kate Forbes got a bit of unfair treatment compared to the others. On the BBC? From impartial Fiona Bruce? Surely not.

[Paul1642]

Just watched the STV "debate", Farage is doing cartwheels about overtaking the Tories in the latest poll. He's promising the end of the House of Lords, more referendums on important issues, bringing in PR voting and raising the tax threshold to £20k. Could he actually end up the main opposition? :hmmm:

Whilst I certainly won’t be fooled by that man or his party, I do approve of every single one of those policy's (although funding of the tax threshold is probably much easier said than done).

Imagine it someone had told you after the 2019 election that the tories could drop to 3rd place by 2024😂

Hopefully the beginning of the end for corrupt party as we know it.

[marinello59]

I thought Kate Forbes got a bit of unfair treatment compared to the others. Politician doesn't directly answer a question isn't exactly unusual but she seemed to get this pointed out much more than the others I felt.

I'm not an SNP supporter

I'm not so sure it was unfair, I think Bruce is just downright rude. When she twice asked the audience if they understood the answer Forbes was giving about the SNP's policy on oil and gas exploration it was cringeworthy.
And unnecessary given that it was obvious that nobody did.:greengrin

The guy who was the former advisor to the Yes campaign was impressive, the other non-politician not so much. Ross, Sarwar and Forbes were all on autopilot, we've already heard pretty much everything they had to say already.

[Andy Bee]

What would be your review of QT last Night? I'm particularly keen to hear how you thought the host handled things

I lasted around 10 mins, Sarwar was given the platform to waffle on about no austerity, GB Energy generating energy, creating £bns for the economy and 60,000 jobs completely uninterrupted and Kate Forbes wasn't afforded the same respect. Added to that we had that lil self serving gimp Iain Anderson berating the very party he funded for years. For mental health reasons I'm not watching it again until Bruce is gone and replaced with someone like Victoria Derbyshire.

[weecounty hibby]

I lasted around 10 mins, Sarwar was given the platform to waffle on about no austerity, GB Energy generating energy, creating £bns for the economy and 60,000 jobs completely uninterrupted and Kate Forbes wasn't afforded the same respect. Added to that we had that lil self serving gimp Iain Anderson berating the very party he funded for years. For mental health reasons I'm not watching it again until Bruce is gone and replaced with someone like Victoria Derbyshire.

Yeah, Sarwar managed to get a full party political broadcast in and Forbes was stopped within seconds. It's actually unwatchable with Bruce in charge. Her bias is off the scale.

When you look back at Day, Dimbleby and Sissons it shows how far the quality if the show has dropped. Probably also the quality if politician as well to be fair

[Bostonhibby]

Yeah, Sarwar managed to get a full party political broadcast in and Forbes was stopped within seconds. It's actually unwatchable with Bruce in charge. Her bias is off the scale.

When you look back at Day, Dimbleby and Sissons it shows how far the quality if the show has dropped. Probably also the quality if politician as well to be fairDown here I keep hearing about how the bbc is full of "lefties" etc. I guess theres just too many folk who get their truth, unthinkingly, from the Daily Mail.

The reality seems to me to be that the big decision makers certainly have had nasty party connections and leanings, which is why we get Boris's doe eyed admirer Keunsberg and blatant tory Bruce in key roles that used to be filled by professional political commentators like Robin Day, to name but one.

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[marinello59]

I can’t say I noticed this yesterday but Labour have promised an enquiry in to the Battle of Orgreave in their manifesto. Long overdue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c100917n9g9o

[Hiber-nation]

I can’t say I noticed this yesterday but Labour have promised an enquiry in to the Battle of Orgreave in their manifesto. Long overdue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c100917n9g9o

Ah that's excellent.

[DaveF]

I can’t say I noticed this yesterday but Labour have promised an enquiry in to the Battle of Orgreave in their manifesto. Long overdue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c100917n9g9o

After 40 years + however many years a new enquiry takes, I assume most of those who may be implicated will not be seeing justice. IE, dead.

Dare I say it's a gimmick.

[Ozyhibby]

After 40 years + however many years a new enquiry takes, I assume most of those who may be implicated will not be seeing justice. IE, dead.

Dare I say it's a gimmick.

The UK enquiry industry is a real growth success story.[emoji106]


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[marinello59]

After 40 years + however many years a new enquiry takes, I assume most of those who may be implicated will not be seeing justice. IE, dead.

Dare I say it's a gimmick.

Tell that to the people of the Orgreave truth snd justice campaign who have worked towards this for years. You and me weren’t directly affected by this, these people had their lives and the lived of family members destroyed. The Tories refused to open an enquiry in to this saying it wasn’t in the public interest. In other words the truth was going to hurt them badly.

https://otjc.org.uk/

[marinello59]

The UK enquiry industry is a real growth success story.[emoji106]


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Yeah, Hillsborough should never have been looked at again.

[Bostonhibby]

The UK enquiry industry is a real growth success story.[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm surprised Baroness Mone and similar grifters haven't been on the phone to Michael Gove offering their services at special mates rates.

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[DaveF]

Tell that to the people of the Orgreave truth snd justice campaign who have worked towards this for years. You and me weren’t directly affected by this, these people had their lives and the lived of family members destroyed. The Tories refused to open an enquiry in to this saying it wasn’t in the public interest. In other words the truth was going to hurt them badly.

https://otjc.org.uk/

I'm not diminishing the impact on those affected, I'm simply being cynical as to the extent / scope of any enquiry should it happen.

I'll happily eat my words if it's done as quickly as possible and brings closure to those impacted.

[Moulin Yarns]

I can’t say I noticed this yesterday but Labour have promised an enquiry in to the Battle of Orgreave in their manifesto. Long overdue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c100917n9g9o

I used to work beside someone from Hastings who's father was a copper who was sent there at the time, he votes tory as a result!

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I can’t say I noticed this yesterday but Labour have promised an enquiry in to the Battle of Orgreave in their manifesto. Long overdue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c100917n9g9o


Long overdue. I remember Norman Tebbutt, a very sinister and dangerous politician saying that "we all know what really happened there, without further explaining exactly who "we " , are.

[Keith_M]

The Tories' new election poster...


27983

[Paul1642]

A bit of deviation from the thread but I spend a day in Salzburg on the way to Munich and just can’t get over how clean and well maintained it was.

Good pavements, not a pothole to be seen on the roads, no litter, and the houses and building all look in a perfect state of repair.

Austria’s economy can’t be larger than ours so it really got me thinks, how are we getting things so wrong in this country?

[lapsedhibee]

A bit of deviation from the thread but I spend a day in Salzburg on the way to Munich and just can’t get over how clean and well maintained it was.

Good pavements, not a pothole to be seen on the roads, no litter, and the houses and building all look in a perfect state of repair.

Austria’s economy can’t be larger than ours so it really got me thinks, how are we getting things so wrong in this country?

Thatcher convinced a number of people that society isn't a real thing, and we've been governed for most of the time since then by those people.

[Andy Bee]

A bit of deviation from the thread but I spend a day in Salzburg on the way to Munich and just can’t get over how clean and well maintained it was.

Good pavements, not a pothole to be seen on the roads, no litter, and the houses and building all look in a perfect state of repair.

Austria’s economy can’t be larger than ours so it really got me thinks, how are we getting things so wrong in this country?


If you have the time at some point then the Nation series by Lesley Riddoch is really eye opening. It's a series of films showing how other mainly Nordic countries do things compared to the UK. The Faroe Islands is particularly impressive but they all leave you with the feeling of why the **** don't we do that.

https://lesleyriddoch.com/films

[Keith_M]

A bit of deviation from the thread but I spend a day in Salzburg on the way to Munich and just can’t get over how clean and well maintained it was.

Good pavements, not a pothole to be seen on the roads, no litter, and the houses and building all look in a perfect state of repair.

Austria’s economy can’t be larger than ours so it really got me thinks, how are we getting things so wrong in this country?


Strange as it might seem, Austria is actually one of the most socialist countries (in practical terms) you could find. High taxes and high spending on public amenities and housing.

I realise there are some real nutjobs in Austrian politics but, In an ideal world, I'd love Scotland to be a mirror of how things actually are in Austria.

Vienna is easily among the best cities in the world to live, so you'd think the cost of living there would reflect the likes of London, Paris, etc.... but it's actually not

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret-how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city

Despite this, they still have fantastic, affordable public transport, a decent health system and public facilities that would make you jealous beyond belief.

[Andy Bee]

Strange as it might seem, Austria is actually one of the most socialist countries (in practical terms) you could find. High taxes and high spending on public amenities and housing.

I realise there are some real nutjobs in Austrian politics but, In an ideal world, I'd love Scotland to be a mirror of how things actually are in Austria.

Vienna is easily among the best cities in the world to live, so you'd think the cost of living there would reflect the likes of London, Paris, etc.... but it's actually not

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret-how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city

Despite this, they still have fantastic, affordable public transport, a decent health system and public facilities that would make you jealous beyond belief.


They all seem to be high taxed but the difference is, in the main, they're all invested in their Governments, they trust them. In Denmark it's very unusual to have a job for life, companies can hire and lay off workers at will but the electorate seem to support this as there's a Welfare State that truly supports and a vast amount of training to reskill. A few of them have 4 day weeks, they all have public services that we can only dream of, community heating systems are the norm and all seem to have a 3 tier system of Government that starts from the bottom up. Norway has around 330 local councils, we have 32.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/olafsnp/status/1802273554743877902?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Who would have thunk it.[emoji106][emoji2528]


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[marinello59]

Big week ahead with the SNP manifesto coming out. Swinney and Flynn have both confirmed they are sticking with the de-facto referendum so Independence will need to be line one then hammered home if those Yes voters considering Labour are to be retained. The wording shouldl be interesting. :greengrin

[J-C]

Don't know why folk are surprised that a party set up to gain independence has this as it's main policy.

[marinello59]

Don't know why folk are surprised that a party set up to gain independence has this as it's main policy.

Who is surprised? Genuine question :greengrin

[jamie_1875]

Big week ahead with the SNP manifesto coming out. Swinney and Flynn have both confirmed they are sticking with the de-facto referendum so Independence will need to be line one then hammered home if those Yes voters considering Labour are to be retained. The wording shouldl be interesting. :greengrin

I think they dropped the de facto referendum? It was reported they had.

https://x.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1801145974426849431?t=5AqIHJdJxbsMVrOj2AyCnw&s=19

[marinello59]

I think they dropped the de facto referendum? It was reported they had.

https://x.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1801145974426849431?t=5AqIHJdJxbsMVrOj2AyCnw&s=19

Swinney did talk about Devo max but they have not dropped the de-facto referendum yet. Both he and Flynn have confirmed in the past week they are sticking with it.

Ah I get the confusion, they changed the wording from a majority of Scottish seats being the trigger to begin negotiations for Independence to it being a mandate to investigate how to secure Indpendence.....I'm not sure what that actually means.

[grunt]

@BestForBritain (https://x.com/BestForBritain) has released its tactical voting site https://www.getvoting.org

It seems to be complete bollox for Scottish constituencies, suggesting people vote Labour even in safe SNP seats.
Not tactical but political in support of Labour. Ignore.

[Andy Bee]

Defacto Referendum was never on the agenda, the policy was "win a majority of seats and we start negotiations with the UK Government" as the members voted for at the NEC. What that exactly means is anyones guess but I don't think anyone is under any illusion of this election furthering the cause of Independence. At best it should be used as a starting block for the SG elections in 2026 to be the decider. If they don't follow either that route or come out with another serious plan they'll be finished.

[marinello59]

Reform launch their manifesto or as they decided to call it , a contract. The expected mix of uncosted populist giveaways and not so subtle racism presented with the luxury of knowing they will never be in power. Bad news for the Tories, they are going to lose a lot of voters to this lot.
They will still be doing well to win more then a couple of seats if they get any at all. Hopefully even Clacton sees through Farage and his pub bore persona.

[Andy Bee]

Reform launch their manifesto or as they decided to call it , a contract. The expected mix of uncosted populist giveaways and not so subtle racism presented with the luxury of knowing they will never be in power. Bad news for the Tories, they are going to lose a lot of voters to this lot.
They will still be doing well to win more then a couple of seats if they get any at all. Hopefully even Clacton sees through Farage and his pub bore persona.

I'd think Labour will lose a few votes also, this is exactly how Johnson won an 80 seat majority and the Red Wall. It's quite mind boggling what a lot of voters believe.

[marinello59]

I'd think Labour will lose a few votes also, this is exactly how Johnson won an 80 seat majority and the Red Wall. It's quite mind boggling what a lot of voters believe.

I think our flawed electoral system will do for Refrom though, they may get a large number of votes but they will be too spread out to gain a significant number of seats. Maybe first past the post isn’t so bad after all. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I think our flawed electoral system will do for Refrom though, they may get a large number of votes but they will be too spread out to gain a significant number of seats. Maybe first past the post isn’t so bad after all. :greengrin

It won’t make them go away though and ignoring large sections of society isn’t a great idea long term. Disenfranchising voters eventually encourages violence.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240617/c54ce80886de2f1e086eae41417a2b91.jpg

Labour promising the most austerity.[emoji106]


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[Hibs4185]

Devo max is terrible for independence. Westminster is basically giving you the rope to hang yourself.

We’d be better with only the very basic powers, that way when things go wrong you’ve got a big stick to beat Westminster with.

When you can raise your own taxes etc and things go wrong or budgets don’t balance, it gives Westminster and the media the opportunity to claim independence won’t work.

Campaign should onmu be for independen e

[Ozyhibby]

Devo max is terrible for independence. Westminster is basically giving you the rope to hang yourself.

We’d be better with only the very basic powers, that way when things go wrong you’ve got a big stick to beat Westminster with.

When you can raise your own taxes etc and things go wrong or budgets don’t balance, it gives Westminster and the media the opportunity to claim independence won’t work.

Campaign should onmu be for independen e

Also gives you the opportunity to show how you can do things better. If you don’t believe we can do things in a way that is better suited to Scotlands needs the neither independence nor devo max is for you.


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[Keith_M]

Reform launch their manifesto or as they decided to call it , a contract. The expected mix of uncosted populist giveaways and not so subtle racism presented with the luxury of knowing they will never be in power. Bad news for the Tories, they are going to lose a lot of voters to this lot.
They will still be doing well to win more then a couple of seats if they get any at all. Hopefully even Clacton sees through Farage and his pub bore persona.


I wouldn't bet on it.

Clacton had a UKIP MP between 2014 and 2017. He had defected from the Tories but won in both 2014 (by-election) and 2015 whilst standing for UKIP.

The Tories won the seat back in 2017, with a massive majority, but that's probably down to their almost complete focus on Brexit.

[Andy Bee]

Also gives you the opportunity to show how you can do things better. If you don’t believe we can do things in a way that is better suited to Scotlands needs the neither independence nor devo max is for you.


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Powers devolved are powers retained. Devolution, no matter how much, will never stretch to completely being able to radically reform the whole Governmental systems, Scotland would always be a mini UK and that gives me the fear even if Independence was achieved.

[marinello59]

I wouldn't bet on it.

Clacton had a UKIP MP between 2014 and 2017. He had defected from the Tories but won in both 2014 (by-election) and 2015 whilst standing for UKIP.

The Tories won the seat back in 2017, with a massive majority, but that's probably down to their almost complete focus on Brexit.

Hr chose it well. It’s the one I think they may win which will be sickening.

[marinello59]

It won’t make them go away though and ignoring large sections of society isn’t a great idea long term. Disenfranchising voters eventually encourages violence.


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Farage will tell his voters that they have actually won a great victory. Reform are a home for protest votes and a good way of lining Farage’s pockets. It has been set up as a Private Ltd Company rather than as a Political Party, every donation adds to his profits. He seems to be have been inspired by American TV preachers when it comes to fleecing his followers. Kerching! greengrin
He’s said he is looking to the next election. What he hasn’t said is whether that will be with his current vehicle or back in the fold with the Tories. I suspect the latter.

[CropleyWasGod]

Farage will tell sll his voters thst they have actually won a great victory. Reform are a home for protest votes and a good way of lining Farage’s pockets. It had been set up as a Private Ltd Company rather than as a Politcal Party, every donation adds to his profits. He seems to be have been inspired by American TV preachers when it comes to fleecing his followers. Kerching! greengrin
He’s said he is looking to the next election. What he hasn’t said is whether that will be with his current vehicle or back in the fold with the Tories. I suspect the latter.

I hadn't realised that, so I went digging.

The last accounts, to December 22, had them insolvent by about £1m. Roughly equivalent to the amount NF and his 2 co-directors have put in.

He didn't take anything out in wages.

Things may have changed since then, so I will keep an eye on it.

[Hibs4185]

Also gives you the opportunity to show how you can do things better. If you don’t believe we can do things in a way that is better suited to Scotlands needs the neither independence nor devo max is for you.


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If you succeed with devo max and make things better than the UK, Westminster has the arguement that Scotland has thrived as part of the UK.

I also thing if people are undecided about independence and they currently lean towards independence, Devo max gives them an easy option. More powers for Scotland whilst keeping the foot in the door of the UK.

It’s the 50/50 voters who decide most Elections/referendums

[marinello59]

I hadn't realised that, so I went digging.

The last accounts, to December 22, had them insolvent by about £1m. Roughly equivalent to the amount NF and his 2 co-directors have put in.

He didn't take anything out in wages.

Things may have changed since then, so I will keep an eye on it.

So it’s not actually making any money? Even better. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

So it’s not actually making any money? Even better. :greengrin

That would explain what I heard about their party political broadcast. Black screen with some slogan, no voice over, for 5 minutes.

Also, nobody young enough to be able to put a PowerPoint together.

[marinello59]

Swinney has said the SNP manifesto will be the most left wing one on offer. I suspect the SSP will challenge that. :greengrin

[grunt]

Swinney has said the SNP manifesto will be the most left wing one on offer. I suspect the SSP will challenge that. :greengrin
SSP? How many MSPs do they have? How many councillors? They are irrelevant.

[marinello59]

Superb stuff from Sunak today when he accuses Starmer of trying to entrench his power by adopting the SNP policy of giving votes to 16 year olds.
Two things jump out, one, 16 days to go and the Tories have effectively conceded defeat.
And two… a bit rich coming from the party who engineered constituency boundary changes to preserve a Tory majority. I’m loving their pain. :greengrin

[grunt]

Superb stuff from Sunak today when he accuses Starmer of trying to entrench his power by adopting the SNP policy of giving votes to 16 year olds.
Two things jump out, one, 16 days to go and the Tories have effectively conceded defeat.
And two… a bit rich coming from the party who engineered constituency boundary changes to preserve a Tory majority. I’m loving their pain. :greengrin
It's important to recognise moments when we agree, I think. :aok:

[J-C]

SSP? How many MSPs do they have? How many councillors? They are irrelevant.

There the one guy every weekend at the east of Princes St with all his flags and loud hailer.

[DaveF]

There the one guy every weekend at the east of Princes St with all his flags and loud hailer.

Marinello59? 😃

(Sorry J)