Sportswashing in football

[He's here!]

Listened to this on Radio 4 yesterday. Pretty depressing what fans (and politicians) are prepared to overlook for footballing success and local investment (of which next to none brings any benefit to the less well off). There was much outrage spouted in recent years about statues and buildings with links to the slave trade, yet the willingness to embrace such repressive regimes in the here and now is arguably as distasteful:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001z69f

[MWHIBBIES]

Spreading like the plague. Snooker world championship will be off to Saudi when the crucible deal ends. ****ing snooker.

[One Day Soon]

If we were taken over by a Saudi equivalent, with the murderous background that accompanied the Newcastle move, that would be me done.

Once upon a time football clubs were all about communities and identity. Money is rotting the game and clubs are becoming brands and the PR they bring is as valued as anything else.

[One Day Soon]

Spreading like the plague. Snooker world championship will be off to Saudi when the crucible deal ends. ****ing snooker.

The interviews after that recent ‘golden ball’ tournament were pretty revolting. ‘It’s wonderful here’, ‘they love snooker’, ‘their understanding of the game is amazing’, ‘the snooker academy is going to transform the sport’. Vast amounts of money certainly talks.

[Donegal Hibby]

If we were taken over by a Saudi equivalent, with the murderous background that accompanied the Newcastle move, that would be me done.

Once upon a time football clubs were all about communities and identity. Money is rotting the game and clubs are becoming brands and the PR they bring is as valued as anything else.

You say that and maybe you mean it though as a fan is it that easy to just walk away from the club you've supported all your life ?

The other thing is if it happened to Hibs and they were making big money signings , winning trophies , kicking hertz ass and playing in Europe regularly would our attendances go down or up ? .

I know as someone that follows Newcastle United they have quite a large waiting list for season tickets and there's on going stuff about redeveloping St James park by another 10 , 15 thousand or even building a new stadium to cope with the demand.

I'm not saying it's right though very hard to turn your back on something that's been a big part of your life which is why I didn't.

[MWHIBBIES]

You say that and maybe you mean it though as a fan is it that easy to just walk away from the club you've supported all your life ?

The other thing is if it happened to Hibs and they were making big money signings , winning trophies , kicking hertz ass and playing in Europe regularly would our attendances go down or up ? .

I know as someone that follows Newcastle United they have quite a large waiting list for season tickets and there's on going stuff about redeveloping St James park by another 10 , 15 thousand or even building a new stadium to cope with the demand.

I'm not saying it's right though very hard to turn your back on something that's been a big part of your life which is why I didn't.

A Saudi run Hibs simply would not be the club I supported all my life. It would be a soulless sports washing front like Newcastle.

[wookie70]

If we were taken over by a Saudi equivalent, with the murderous background that accompanied the Newcastle move, that would be me done.

Once upon a time football clubs were all about communities and identity. Money is rotting the game and clubs are becoming brands and the PR they bring is as valued as anything else. I'm the same. I can't say I am overly happy with the MM appointment but it is a single employee who was a racist idiot a decade ago. However, if we were owned by the Saudis or even someone like Romanov I think that may spell the end for me. To be honest Foley's involvement doesn't fill me with joy as anyone that rich makes be suspicious but he is a minority shareholder and at least on the face of it his fortune has been earned legally. Football is more and more aligned with the rich and barring Hibs that makes me less and less interested. It is probably inevitable it will end up being a sport I will leave due to dirty money or corruption. It was so much better before TV ruined it and made it a way of making money or gaining influence or power

[TheGog]

Let’s hope the Saudis don’t buy John McGinn for 300m🙄

[neil7908]

A Saudi run Hibs simply would not be the club I supported all my life. It would be a soulless sports washing front like Newcastle.

I'm with you 100%. The Saudi regime are one of the most vile on earth. I struggle already with the Black Knight investment tbh. Being owned by a regime as despicable as the Saudis would be an instant walk away for me. Some things are more important than football.

[CentreForward]

With Saudi investment there may well be quite a number who would walk away including those who have already expressed those views on here. If we were suddenly beginning to sign top players, winning regular trophies, walking all over Hearts and going far in Europe then you can guarantee that the ground would be full every week and it would be more than the corners that we would need to fill in.

[Donegal Hibby]

A Saudi run Hibs simply would not be the club I supported all my life. It would be a soulless sports washing front like Newcastle.

If a Saudi group came to Hibs and said " we want to buy your club though we are also interested in hertz too " . What we want to do is pump a lot of money in improving everything and have Hibs winning trophies and playing in Europe regularly , you think most Hibs fans would rather pass and let hertz have these opportunities instead? .

As to Newcastle United being soulless you are so far off the mark there it's unbelievable . They have great fans , history and most of the time St James park is absolutely rocking and one of the very best stadiums for atmosphere in England.

[CentreForward]

If a Saudi group came to Hibs and said " we want to buy your club though we are also interested in hertz too " . What we want to do is pump a lot of money in improving everything and have Hibs winning trophies and playing in Europe regularly , you think most Hibs fans would rather pass and let hertz have these opportunities instead? .

As to Newcastle United being soulless you are so far off the mark there it's unbelievable . They have great fans , history and most of the time St James park is absolutely rocking and one of the very best stadiums for atmosphere in England.


Agreed. The passion and fanaticism of their vast support is almost unrivalled. I actually reckon they are potentially one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

[Forza Fred]

A Saudi run Hibs simply would not be the club I supported all my life. It would be a soulless sports washing front like Newcastle.

So what other nationalities would be on your list that would make you walk away?

Not having a go, just interested.

Given the number of times I have seen Saudia Arabia mentioned on here I can only assume they get a regular media mention in the UK, whereas here in Oz they certainly come in for criticism, but don’t seem to be public enemy number 1.

Not looking for a list of their wrongdoings and not disagreeing with you, but just wondering what others would move you to such an action.

[Winston Ingram]

Listened to this on Radio 4 yesterday. Pretty depressing what fans (and politicians) are prepared to overlook for footballing success and local investment (of which next to none brings any benefit to the less well off). There was much outrage spouted in recent years about statues and buildings with links to the slave trade, yet the willingness to embrace such repressive regimes in the here and now is arguably as distasteful:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001z69f

Thanks for that. I’ll give it a listen

[MWHIBBIES]

So what other nationalities would be on your list that would make you walk away?

Not having a go, just interested.

Given the number of times I have seen Saudia Arabia mentioned on here I can only assume they get a regular media mention in the UK, whereas here in Oz they certainly come in for criticism, but don’t seem to be public enemy number 1.

Not looking for a list of their wrongdoings and not disagreeing with you, but just wondering what others would move you to such an action.

It's not their nationality. I have no prejudice against those from the middle east, or china for example. If a nice little family owned business from Qatar bought Hibs, because his grandad liked Joe Baker, I'm all for it. If their head of government, a vile, oppressive regime, then I'd walk away.




If a Saudi group came to Hibs and said " we want to buy your club though we are also interested in hertz too " . What we want to do is pump a lot of money in improving everything and have Hibs winning trophies and playing in Europe regularly , you think most Hibs fans would rather pass and let hertz have these opportunities instead? .

As to Newcastle United being soulless you are so far off the mark there it's unbelievable . They have great fans , history and most of the time St James park is absolutely rocking and one of the very best stadiums for atmosphere in England.

That's the point. If they took over a tin pot club, people would focus more on it. So they take over a club with fans and a few local lads and a bit of hard luck and there are distractions, feel good stories and fewer people talk about dead journalists and imprisoned protesters. Newcastle weren't picked at random. Neither were city.

A bunch of working class people worshipping state ownership because they buy good footballers is as soulless as it gets. Id be embarrassed.

Honestly Dan Burn was such a brilliant signing. Passable footballer but an absolutely PR machine. Local lad, nice guy, good story. Excellent way of convincing people the club has a soul and cares.

[Stairway 2 7]

Looking at the reaction from fans that said they would leave when Newcastle and City got taken over the leavers gets replaced 5 to 1 by people wanting to see winning teams. A vocal handful would go but on title winning day tickets for Easter road would be gold dust. While I wouldn't like the regime I'd be there jumping in the stands

[Stairway 2 7]

It's not their nationality. I have no prejudice against those from the middle east, or china for example. If a nice little family owned business from Qatar bought Hibs, because his grandad liked Joe Baker, I'm all for it. If their head of government, a vile, oppressive regime, then I'd walk away.





That's the point. If they took over a tin pot club, people would focus more on it. So they take over a club with fans and a few local lads and a bit of hard luck and there are distractions, feel good stories and fewer people talk about dead journalists and imprisoned protesters. Newcastle weren't picked at random. Neither were city.

A bunch of working class people worshipping state ownership because they buy good footballers is as soulless as it gets. Id be embarrassed.

Honestly Dan Burn was such a brilliant signing. Passable footballer but an absolutely PR machine. Local lad, nice guy, good story. Excellent way of convincing people the club has a soul and cares.

Arsenal just got another £250 million from the vile Emirates slaves lives to fund players wages, you'll need a new club

[MWHIBBIES]

Arsenal just got another £250 million from the vile Emirates slaves lives to fund players wages, you'll need a new club

I'm a Hibs supporter, and only a Hibs supporter.

[Brooster]

I'm all for healthy debate but are we now getting outraged about something that hasn't even happened?

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm all for healthy debate but are we now getting outraged about something that hasn't even happened?

Who is outraged? Seems a pretty reasonable chat so far.

[One Day Soon]

If a Saudi group came to Hibs and said " we want to buy your club though we are also interested in hertz too " . What we want to do is pump a lot of money in improving everything and have Hibs winning trophies and playing in Europe regularly , you think most Hibs fans would rather pass and let hertz have these opportunities instead? .

As to Newcastle United being soulless you are so far off the mark there it's unbelievable . They have great fans , history and most of the time St James park is absolutely rocking and one of the very best stadiums for atmosphere in England.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45812399 This is the man and regime paying for Newcastle’s renaissance. I’ve no objection to foreign ownership in principle, though I think that the colossal levels of money we see now is ruining the game, but if it were someone like this I’d be out, regardless of success, level of investment or whatever.

For every one person who would walk away in such circumstances there would probably 5 or 10 willing to sign up instead. That’s why sports washing works and why so much money is thrown at it. But for me that Newcastle strip these days is drenched in blood. Sorry, but that’s how I feel.

Anyone capable of what the Newcastle owner did has no limits at all. None.

[He's here!]

If a Saudi group came to Hibs and said " we want to buy your club though we are also interested in hertz too " . What we want to do is pump a lot of money in improving everything and have Hibs winning trophies and playing in Europe regularly , you think most Hibs fans would rather pass and let hertz have these opportunities instead? .

As to Newcastle United being soulless you are so far off the mark there it's unbelievable . They have great fans , history and most of the time St James park is absolutely rocking and one of the very best stadiums for atmosphere in England.

It would be worth a listen to the Radio 4 programme. It's the passion of those fans (blind loyalty would probably be a more apt description in these circumstances) that this brutally repressive regime relies on to mask its true nature. Hard-up councils welcome their investment with open arms but have sold off large tracts of land for development in murky offshore deals, where the gleaming new apartment blocks then built are affordable only to the very wealthy and the money trail is next to impossible to follow. The football clubs are effectively pawns, used to facilitate ever-increasing influence by the Saudi regime in UK affairs. The vast majority of fans, as you say, don't really give a f*** about anything other than a winning team so their exploitation rolls on unchecked. As I mentioned earlier, the strident demands in recent years to change street names, pull down statues and buildings due to their association with the UK's colonial past seem pretty daft when set against the fact that right now we're embracing such industrial scale investment by a regime whose human rights record is among the world's very worst.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The whole of sport suffers from this though, not just football. If a country isn't on any government blacklist then athletes are going to reach for the big bucks they offer regardless of any ethical concerns, boxing being a case in point.

Look at the Roman Abramovich ownership of Chelsea. There was no doubt his riches came from being pally with folk who were nothing less than a mafia, but that was fine until the UK government fell out with Russia, then all of a sudden he was persona non grata, when he should have been all along.

If there is a problem here it's governments who are the heart of it. Condemn the likes of Saudi Arabia for their human rights record on the one hand and make billions selling them arms on the other. That hardly puts them in any position to put the mockers on Saudi buying one of England's biggest football clubs.

In this years Olympics winners of athletics events will get $50,000 ...... I wonder how long it will be until drugs cheats are regularly being taken to court by the runner up for loss of earnings. Any sense of the Olympics being all about the glory and Corinthian spirit has long since evaporated.

The only positive for us is that oil rich nations like Saudi or Qatar with appalling human rights records want the glory and publicity of owning EPL clubs .... not some poxy wee Scottish premiership outfit. I doubt hand wringing over us being owned by any of these folk is going to be an issue any time soon.

[Itsnoteasy]

I'm a Hibs supporter, and only a Hibs supporter.

I'm with you on that one. What if the Saudis sign Mcginn you would then have a Saudi Hibs Supporters Branch. Just like when he signed for Villa. AVHSB.

Each to their own.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45812399 This is the man and regime paying for Newcastle’s renaissance. I’ve no objection to foreign ownership in principle, though I think that the colossal levels of money we see now is ruining the game, but if it were someone like this I’d be out, regardless of success, level of investment or whatever.

For every one person who would walk away in such circumstances there would probably 5 or 10 willing to sign up instead. That’s why sports washing works and why so much money is thrown at it. But for me that Newcastle strip these days is drenched in blood. Sorry, but that’s how I feel.

Anyone capable of what the Newcastle owner did has no limits at all. None.

The minority of Newcastle fans who continue to oppose the club's ownership made this the focus of a recent protest:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/nufc-anti-sportswashing-group-calls-29028618

[Donegal Hibby]

I'm a Hibs supporter, and only a Hibs supporter.

I'm a Hibs supporter first and foremost too though freely admit Newcastle United are my other team and have been for years ,if your saying that you don't have a strong liking for Arsenal or don't prefer them over other teams in England I find that really hard to believe going by your posts in the past that have certainly given the impression your abit of a gunners fan tbh .

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm a Hibs supporter first and foremost too though freely admit Newcastle United are my other team and have been for years ,if your saying that you don't have a strong liking for Arsenal or don't prefer them over other teams in England I find that really hard to believe going by your posts in the past that have certainly given the impression your abit of a gunners fan tbh .

I prefer Arsenal over other English teams, mostly because they always play good football. I don't defend any of the **** they do or pretend they're something special. I only support Hibs.

[Donegal Hibby]

I prefer Arsenal over other English teams, mostly because they always play good football. I don't defend any of the **** they do or pretend they're something special. I only support Hibs.

So with there association with ' Emirates ' your ok with that because they play good football then ?

[hibsbollah]

So with there association with ' Emirates ' your ok with that because they play good football then ?

To be fair to MW, we all have a point at which things start being unacceptable on a personal level. The Saudi regime are a step too far for me personally, as they are for MW clearly. Just because there are other unpleasant owners in the EPL who may be connected with Arsenal doesn’t necessarily make him a hypocrite, he just might see it as a false equivalence.

[MWHIBBIES]

So with there association with ' Emirates ' your ok with that because they play good football then ?

No, it's not. Ideally they'd have a different sponsor of course. It's not the same as state ownership, though.

Why are you just trying to catch me out rather than owning upto to basically not caring about Newcastle being owned by horrible people?

[Donegal Hibby]

No, it's not. Ideally they'd have a different sponsor of course. It's not the same as state ownership, though.

Why are you just trying to catch me out rather than owning upto to basically not caring about Newcastle being owned by horrible people?

As I said before I didn't want it too happen but it has , the English FA , FIFA could have put a stop to it years ago but didn't. As to fans walking away from the club that's something totally out of their control anyhow that's up to each individual how they feel .

My own opinion on it is yes I know what they are though I'm just going to carry on like I have done for many years in following Newcastle United .

If they came into buy Hibs or hertz with promises of millions getting spent I'd hope they'd buy us too . I certainly wouldn't be walking away from Hibs if they did . Maybe that's easier for some fans to do than others I suppose.

[He's here!]

As I said before I didn't want it too happen but it has , the English FA , FIFA could have put a stop to it years ago but didn't. As to fans walking away from the club that's something totally out of their control anyhow that's up to each individual how they feel .

My own opinion on it is yes I know what they are though I'm just going to carry on like I have done for many years in following Newcastle United .

If they came into buy Hibs or hertz with promises of millions getting spent I'd hope they'd buy us too . I certainly wouldn't be walking away from Hibs if they did . Maybe that's easier for some fans to do than others I suppose.

It's actually easier NOT to walk away. That's the daft power of football for you. The majority of fans obviously place success for their club above concerns about its morally repugnant ownership and simply turn a blind eye to the unsavoury reasons why they've become successful.

I don't really buy the 'helpless fans' excuse in a situation like this.

[Stairway 2 7]

No, it's not. Ideally they'd have a different sponsor of course. It's not the same as state ownership, though.

Why are you just trying to catch me out rather than owning upto to basically not caring about Newcastle being owned by horrible people?

Arsenal are the team they are because the hundreds of millions from the disgusting Emirate and Rwandan States funding them. All the top English clubs are funded by capitalist entities. They also just like the old firm steal fans from local teams and players other clubs develop. Picking between them is like Picking the favourite pluke on your face

[Donegal Hibby]

It's actually easier NOT to walk away. That's the daft power of football for you. The majority of fans obviously place success for their club above concerns about its morally repugnant ownership and simply turn a blind eye to the unsavoury reasons why they've become successful.

I don't really buy the 'helpless fans' excuse in a situation like this.

Most football fans want there clubs to be successful anyhow they wouldn't be proper fans if they didn't . For every Newcastle fan that gives up a season ticket because of this , fair dues to them though there will be another 20, 30 or more waiting to get it . So it won't effect the club anyhow .

As to you not buying into the ' hapless fans ' excuse as you refer to it . There was a few post of Hibs fans not going back because of the MM appointment .

Will it change anything if they don't ? , not one jot . When it comes down to it there will always be some that aren't happy about something though the vast majority of fans will continue to support their club because it's a huge part of their lives no matter what.

The Newcastle United fans are no different .

[He's here!]

Most football fans want there clubs to be successful anyhow they wouldn't be proper fans if they didn't . For every Newcastle fan that gives up a season ticket because of this , fair dues to them though there will be another 20, 30 or more waiting to get it . So it won't effect the club anyhow .

As to you not buying into the ' hapless fans ' excuse as you refer to it . There was a few post of Hibs fans not going back because of the MM appointment .

Will it change anything if they don't ? , not one jot . When it comes down to it there will always be some that aren't happy about something though the vast majority of fans will continue to support their club because it's a huge part of their lives no matter what.

The Newcastle United fans are no different .

I'm not specifically singling out Newcastle fans. As you say, fans of most clubs would be the same. My point is that it's indicative of the pulling power of football that fans will buy into pretty much anything if it improves their lot. Were such a regime to assume rulership of the UK we'd be appalled by its repressive, often barbaric nature. But because all that takes place out of sight, out of mind it's easier for fans just to think it doesn't affect them and they can just get on with going to the football and celebrating their new-found wealth.

Bottom line, for me there's a point at which you think what am I actually supporting here? In my younger days I might have just gone along with it for the sake of one-upmanship on Hearts but now I don't believe my support for Hibs could extend to accepting such ownership.

[MWHIBBIES]

Arsenal are the team they are because the hundreds of millions from the disgusting Emirate and Rwandan States funding them. All the top English clubs are funded by capitalist entities. They also just like the old firm steal fans from local teams and players other clubs develop. Picking between them is like Picking the favourite pluke on your face

Great. A sponsor still isn't the same as the state owning the club. Hibs steal fans from local teams and players other teams develop. It's not really relevant in this thread, though. Yes, Arsenals sponsors aren't great and an element of sports washing is involved. I'm aware of that. They are not a plaything for an Arab state to rehab it's image through.




As I said before I didn't want it too happen but it has , the English FA , FIFA could have put a stop to it years ago but didn't. As to fans walking away from the club that's something totally out of their control anyhow that's up to each individual how they feel .

My own opinion on it is yes I know what they are though I'm just going to carry on like I have done for many years in following Newcastle United .

If they came into buy Hibs or hertz with promises of millions getting spent I'd hope they'd buy us too . I certainly wouldn't be walking away from Hibs if they did . Maybe that's easier for some fans to do than others I suppose.

See, the last sentence is just totally wrong. It's nothing to do with me being a lesser fan than you. I've been going to see Hibs home and away for 24 of my 28 years. Id hate to do it, but that is where I draw my line morally. I don't think I can really look my gay, bisexual or transgender friends in the eye when I'm supporting a regime that would stone them to death. I can't be a union member when I'm supporting a regime that imprisons protestors. Id rather watch Hibs relegated than win like that.

[Stairway 2 7]

Great. A sponsor still isn't the same as the state owning the club. Hibs steal fans from local teams and players other teams develop. It's not really relevant in this thread, though. Yes, Arsenals sponsors aren't great and an element of sports washing is involved. I'm aware of that. They are not a plaything for an Arab state to rehab it's image through.





See, the last sentence is just totally wrong. It's nothing to do with me being a lesser fan than you. I've been going to see Hibs home and away for 24 of my 28 years. Id hate to do it, but that is where I draw my line morally. I don't think I can really look my gay, bisexual or transgender friends in the eye when I'm supporting a regime that would stone them to death. I can't be a union member when I'm supporting a regime that imprisons protestors. Id rather watch Hibs relegated than win like that.

It's literally a plaything. Why fly to the Emirates where people die building thing's because arsenal must check their sponsors, oh wait Rwanda is a brutal regime maybe not.so full control is your limit of walking away, bankrolling is cool brill

[MWHIBBIES]

It's literally a plaything. Why fly to the Emirates where people die building thing's because arsenal must check their sponsors, oh wait Rwanda is a brutal regime maybe not.so full control is your limit of walking away, bankrolling is cool brill

Define walking away? I have never in my life spend 1 penny on Arsenal. Not 1. I cannot walk away as I was never there.

I am also condemning their sponsors. They should get other sponsors. They deserve criticism for it. It is not the same as Newcastle, Manchester City or PSG, though.

Every club has morally questionable sponsors. Hibs do with bevvy. Betting companies etc. Its not great. Full control is quite obviously different.

[Donegal Hibby]

See, the last sentence is just totally wrong. It's nothing to do with me being a lesser fan than you. I've been going to see Hibs home and away for 24 of my 28 years. Id hate to do it, but that is where I draw my line morally. I don't think I can really look my gay, bisexual or transgender friends in the eye when I'm supporting a regime that would stone them to death. I can't be a union member when I'm supporting a regime that imprisons protestors. Id rather watch Hibs relegated than win like that.

I never said you were a lesser fan than me btw , I have total respect for fans following Hibs home and away and if you been doing that for 24 of your 28 years i have the utmost respect for you too .

It's a fair enough point in you couldn't look your friends in the eye if we had a Saudi regime though we have also had players that drink drived , supported paramilitaries etc and now MM being appointed who you know what he said ....

Though your still following Hibs and probably looking your friends in the eyes with all this that's happened too . If the moral high ground is going to be taken then it should be right across the board imo .

[MWHIBBIES]

I never said you were a lesser fan than me btw , I have total respect for fans following Hibs home and away and if you been doing that for 24 of your 28 years i have the utmost respect for you too .

It's a fair enough point in you couldn't look your friends in the eye if we had a Saudi regime though we have also had players that drink drived , supported paramilitaries etc and now MM being appointed who you know what he said ....

Though your still following Hibs and probably looking your friends in the eyes with all this that's happened too . If the moral high ground is going to be taken then it should be right across the board imo .

How are these things comparable? Seriously? A regime that abuses human rights on a massive scale and ****ing malky mackay sending some racist texts years ago are not the same thing.

Don't be ridiculous. We have players and employees who have made mistakes, been punished and not repeated them. It is NOT the same as a regime with hundreds of years of human rights abuses who continue these practices still. You'd could literally never do anything ever with your logic. Never eat anything because somewhere a dodgy employee worked for someone. Never drive, never learn to read because a tree died to make that book. You have to have your line somewhere and mine comes after 1 time offenders and before human rights abuses on a massive scale in the modern world.

Can you just condemn Newcastle's owners instead of the whataboutary. Gon just admit how vile they are and how disgusting what they do is.

[He's here!]

How are these things comparable? Seriously? A regime that abuses human rights on a massive scale and ****ing malky mackay sending some racist texts years ago are not the same thing.

Don't be ridiculous. We have players and employees who have made mistakes, been punished and not repeated them. It is NOT the same as a regime with hundreds of years of human rights abuses who continue these practices still. You'd could literally never do anything ever with your logic. Never eat anything because somewhere a dodgy employee worked for someone. Never drive, never learn to read because a tree died to make that book. You have to have your line somewhere and mine comes after 1 time offenders and before human rights abuses on a massive scale in the modern world.

Can you just condemn Newcastle's owners instead of the whataboutary. Gon just admit how vile they are and how disgusting what they do is.

The prevailing line of thought among football fans is pretty much: 'As long as my club's owners have money to pump into making us successful I don't care where it comes from'.

[Pagan Hibernia]

As I said before I didn't want it too happen but it has , the English FA , FIFA could have put a stop to it years ago but didn't. As to fans walking away from the club that's something totally out of their control anyhow that's up to each individual how they feel .

My own opinion on it is yes I know what they are though I'm just going to carry on like I have done for many years in following Newcastle United .

If they came into buy Hibs or hertz with promises of millions getting spent I'd hope they'd buy us too . I certainly wouldn't be walking away from Hibs if they did . Maybe that's easier for some fans to do than others I suppose.

If Newcastle win the league in the coming years as a direct result of their investment will you still be saying you wish it hadn't happened?

For what it's worth you're right when you say most fans will either openly embrace things like this without a second thought or moan a bit then hold their nose and still renew their season tickets.

In the summer of 2005 I was living and working in Manchester. I don't like either Manchester team but I was struck by the passionate debates in offices and pubs between United fans about the Glazer takeover that had just happened and what they were going to do about it. It's not the same situation as this as those arguments were more about the financial details of the deal and just the 'feeling' that something wasnt right with the new regime and that it wouldnt feel like their club anymore but many people had a real dilemma with it.

Anyway, as it turned out, only several thousand walked away and formed FC United, and they were instantly replaced by several thousand others who wanted to watch Rooney and Ronaldo and couldn't care less who paid their wages.

[Paul1642]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c722nn032zjo

Not quite sport washing but seems relevant to the thread.

Spurs and Newcastle playing each other in a friendly in Australia on Wednesday. Playing a team from your own league in a friendly game 10000 miles away 4 days after the domestic season ends is just an absolute joke.

This is the way the games going though, with La Liga planing to play some league games in the USA in a few seasons time.

I know the players get paid a fortune but it’s a joke for them as well. Half of them will be joining up with their international teams in less than 2 weeks time. Not much of break.

[Donegal Hibby]

If Newcastle win the league in the coming years as a direct result of their investment will you still be saying you wish it hadn't happened?

For what it's worth you're right when you say most fans will either openly embrace things like this without a second thought or moan a bit then hold their nose and still renew their season tickets.

In the summer of 2005 I was living and working in Manchester. I don't like either Manchester team but I was struck by the passionate debates in offices and pubs between United fans about the Glazer takeover that had just happened and what they were going to do about it. It's not the same situation as this as those arguments were more about the financial details of the deal and just the 'feeling' that something wasnt right with the new regime and that it wouldnt feel like their club anymore but many people had a real dilemma with it.

Anyway, as it turned out, only several thousand walked away and formed FC United, and they were instantly replaced by several thousand others who wanted to watch Rooney and Ronaldo and couldn't care less who paid their wages.

To give you a honest answer , probably not as I'd be delighted to see Newcastle United win a trophy though I've been like that for years in hoping they would win something and have also had the disappointment of relegation and losing in finals too.

Seen footage of Old Trafford lately with the roof leaking , run down . Glazers imo didn't give a toss about Utd , Ashley who was supposedly a Newcastle United fan didn't do much either and in the end it was good to see the back of him .

I did hope for different owners though . I think most fans just want to see their team successful which they are doing with signings like Isak , Bruno and Gordon .

Plus now with talk of increasing the capacity of the stadium or building a new one to meet an ever increasing demand for tickets.

I'm not saying it's right but football fans generally just want success and people will just jump on that band wagon. Even here in Donegal now we have a massive following for City and have a Man city Donegal supporters club.