Is there even the slightest chance that if we persevere with Monty he'll come good?

[He's here!]

Yes it was a different era and Alex Ferguson had already enjoyed phenomenal success as a manager in Scotland, but it took him four years at Man U before he won a trophy and the rest is history. Is it even remotely possible we could reap the rewards of remaining patient with Monty rather than simply sacking managers once a year?

I sense the answer will be no from the vast majority, but someone has posted this article about Monty's footballing philosophy on another thread which has given me pause for thought:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/nick-montgomery-central-coast-mariners-sheffield-united/

[JimBHibees]

Yes it was a different era and Alex Ferguson had already enjoyed phenomenal success as a manager in Scotland, but it took him four years at Man U before he won a trophy and the rest is history. Is it even remotely possible we could reap the rewards of remaining patient with Monty rather than simply sacking managers once a year?

I sense the answer will be no from the vast majority, but someone has posted this article about Monty's footballing philosophy on another thread which has given me pause for thought:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/nick-montgomery-central-coast-mariners-sheffield-united/

Good article sounds like he is having the same issues here. Would still give him time

[NC1875]

“There were some senior players in the team who I didn’t sign and who weren’t my type of players. At the start, though, you have to manage what you have and adapt”

From the man himself. Adapt ? Give him another season and we’ll be adapting to life in the championship.

[One Day Soon]

“There were some senior players in the team who I didn’t sign and who weren’t my type of players. At the start, though, you have to manage what you have and adapt”

From the man himself. Adapt ? Give him another season and we’ll be adapting to life in the championship.

He’s not managing what he has and he’s not adapted. Pretty sure if he’s back next season I won’t be - and I’ve already bought two season tickets. I’m all out of reasons to give my son for going to have a **** time at ER every home game when we could be doing something else enjoyable instead.

[Stuart93]

Good article sounds like he is having the same issues here. Would still give him time

It’s not the same at all.

He’s not adapted to anything.

[Hibs1992]

No we are more likely to be relegated than challenge for 3rd/4th. We’re getting progressively worse as the season goes on now rather than better.

When it gets this toxic when does it ever turn around and end up a success? Basically never

[Crab apple]

Quite simply no. The guy is hopeless.

[He's here!]

No we are more likely to be relegated than challenge for 3rd/4th. We’re getting progressively worse as the season goes on now rather than better.

When it gets this toxic when does it ever turn around and end up a success? Basically never

In late 1989 a banner unfurled at Old Trafford read: 'Three years of excuses and it's still crap...ta ra Fergie'.

[ElginHibee]

Mixing it up a little, has any Hibs team finished a season so terribly and been great the start of the following season with 4 new signings, still with the same manager? I just can't see it.

[Haymaker]

In late 1999 a banner unfurled at Old Trafford read: 'Three years of excuses and it's still crap...ta ra Fergie'.He won a treble in 1999...

Sent from my SM-A426U1 using Tapatalk

[heid the baw]

Mixing it up a little, has any Hibs team finished a season so terribly and been great the start of the following season with 4 new signings, still with the same manager? I just can't see it.

Alex Miller, 11th in 1990
1991 brought in Burridge and Keith, finished 5th with a trophy

[Stevie Reid]

In late 1999 a banner unfurled at Old Trafford read: 'Three years of excuses and it's still crap...ta ra Fergie'.

Presume you meant to type 1989. I posted on another thread that Ferguson finished second in 1987/88, his first full season with Utd, winning 81 points from 40 games. So a pretty strong start.

The next league season was poor (11th), and the following season they won the FA Cup. I think they only had two seasons where they didn’t win anything between then and his retirement 23 years later.

But there really is no comparison here. As you have noted, Ferguson’s success at Aberdeen was absolutely phenomenal. Montgomery essentially won a cup with CCM - which he obviously deserves credit for, especially how they won that final - but he had managed something like 62/63 games before he came here.

Ferguson was at Aberdeen for eight years, and managed them in 459 matches - winning 11 trophies. That’s what afforded him one bad season at Utd.

[scoopyboy]

In late 1999 a banner unfurled at Old Trafford read: 'Three years of excuses and it's still crap...ta ra Fergie'.

Nonsense

[kiwihibby]

OK He hasn't had a good season at all but really feel we should PERSEVERE with him. It doesn't look good to be changing managers all the time. I say, gie him a break and get rid of a lot of the deadwood that is around at the moment. Let him put his own players in and see how he goes. I don't think there are a lot of managers who would want the job at the moment. We should get rid of most of the "loan/lone" players too. Most of them aren't worth the hassle and will most likely be on higher wages from their parent club than we pay and don't really care about win, lose or draw as long as they are getting paid and looked after. I know most or all of you will probably disagree with me but it's only MY opinion:flag:

[Forza Fred]

Of course the possibility exists….for any manager.

As someone who has seen Monty as a successful manager, I believe the torrid season we have had will make him a better, more experienced manager.

He’s never really experienced the pressure he’s had here before as a manager…..he’s certainly never had to fight for his job.

Perhaps he needed those kinds of experiences to round out his managerial education.

I’d like to see him get the chance to change the squad to suit his plans.

Contrary to what has been said we CAN keep changing managers every year…….as we have done recently……but it doesn’t seem to be a formula for success.

[Colr]

Yes it was a different era and Alex Ferguson had already enjoyed phenomenal success as a manager in Scotland, but it took him four years at Man U before he won a trophy and the rest is history. Is it even remotely possible we could reap the rewards of remaining patient with Monty rather than simply sacking managers once a year?

I sense the answer will be no from the vast majority, but someone has posted this article about Monty's footballing philosophy on another thread which has given me pause for thought:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/nick-montgomery-central-coast-mariners-sheffield-united/

We keep swapping managers and it hasn’t worked. Maybe we need to grow a different mindset instead of trying to buy one in. As Fenlln said, there’s something soft about the club. Has been for years.

The legacy of these continual manager defenestrations is we have a massive squad of stop gap players each brings in with the hope of them being some magic solution. I thinkwe have about 50 players! We can’t find 11 that gel! What a waste of money and resources. We need a rebuild. Whether NM is the man to do that or not, I don’t know, but it will take a bit of time.

[Winston Ingram]

Managers who have started badly have demonstrated some level of competence which has led their board to stick with them.

This has demonstrated the total opposite.

[Since452]

Never in my lifetime have I seen Aberdeen rock up to Easter Road and scud us 4-0. The most half arsed display ive ever seen from Hibs. All the evidence says he's making us worse, not better.

The sooner he's back in Australia the better.

[Nicho87]

No

[JimBHibees]

Of course the possibility exists….for any manager.

As someone who has seen Monty as a successful manager, I believe the torrid season we have had will make him a better, more experienced manager.

He’s never really experienced the pressure he’s had here before as a manager…..he’s certainly never had to fight for his job.

Perhaps he needed those kinds of experiences to round out his managerial education.

I’d like to see him get the chance to change the squad to suit his plans.

Contrary to what has been said we CAN keep changing managers every year…….as we have done recently……but it doesn’t seem to be a formula for success.

Agree with that.

[JimBHibees]

OK He hasn't had a good season at all but really feel we should PERSEVERE with him. It doesn't look good to be changing managers all the time. I say, gie him a break and get rid of a lot of the deadwood that is around at the moment. Let him put his own players in and see how he goes. I don't think there are a lot of managers who would want the job at the moment. We should get rid of most of the "loan/lone" players too. Most of them aren't worth the hassle and will most likely be on higher wages from their parent club than we pay and don't really care about win, lose or draw as long as they are getting paid and looked after. I know most or all of you will probably disagree with me but it's only MY opinion:flag:

Tend to agree also.

[JimBHibees]

He won a treble in 1999...

Sent from my SM-A426U1 using Tapatalk

United fans have always been an entitled lot 😄

[flash]

Of course there is but it's almost all down to recruitment.

Even with good recruitment we can't be sure things will work out but, even though I think we should make a change, nothing would make me happier than for him to turn it around if he stays.

Regardless I will be in my usual spot at the start of next season with my annual mixture of hope, excitement and cynicism.

I'm a Hibby it's what I do.

[CocoHibs91]

It would be easier to persevere and trust him if there were positive signs of progress during his time here.

There's a couple games we started well for 30 mins or so but the team has such a tendency to collapse at the slightest bit of adversity.

Initially he rigidly stuck to his system to the detriment of the cbs, Levitt, Newell, Youan and Vente. He never wanted to adapt or adjust to the players he had until the St Mirren home game.


He then did change system after that and there was small shoots of improvement but the longer he coaches the players and squad the worse the majority of them get.

Boyle at the Asia Cup, he was doing well away from Monty then comes back and isn't effective for us. I can't think of 1 player he's improved except maybe Marshall?

Hes refused to play Hanlon who is still our best cb at the club.

The in game management is woeful, like for like subs, how many leads chucked late on when he could just sub a forward for a cb to close out the last few minutes. Bringing on likes of Jair when we need to score.

The style is pretty boring. Sideways, slow, football. I would accept this if it achieved results but it doesn't work against anyone. Losses to St Johnstone and Ross County as well as losses to Aberdeen, Hearts.

And lastly the lack of charisma or "getting hibs". Dull personality, lack of passion, lack of fight and now he's adding in silly comments like seconds from jubilation at scraping top 6, on an upward trajectory and hinting the fans are making it difficult for players.

He's actually lucky he's been spared a super toxic Easter Road turning on him because he's been so bad people are beyond angry and have become apathetic to the club. That's even worse and will damage us far more long term when people start doing other things instead of attending games.

So no, I wouldn't be sticking with him. He has to go and I have no idea why he hasn't been sacked already.

[Waxy]

Never in my lifetime have I seen Aberdeen rock up to Easter Road and scud us 4-0. The most half arsed display ive ever seen from Hibs. All the evidence says he's making us worse, not better.

The sooner he's back in Australia the better.

I remember them winning 0-5 at Easter road in the early 80’s
I think it wasnt just a nightmare anyway.

[Hibs1992]

It would be easier to persevere and trust him if there were positive signs of progress during his time here.

There's a couple games we started well for 30 mins or so but the team has such a tendency to collapse at the slightest bit of adversity.

Initially he rigidly stuck to his system to the detriment of the cbs, Levitt, Newell, Youan and Vente. He never wanted to adapt or adjust to the players he had until the St Mirren home game.


He then did change system after that and there was small shoots of improvement but the longer he coaches the players and squad the worse the majority of them get.

Boyle at the Asia Cup, he was doing well away from Monty then comes back and isn't effective for us. I can't think of 1 player he's improved except maybe Marshall?

Hes refused to play Hanlon who is still our best cb at the club.

The in game management is woeful, like for like subs, how many leads chucked late on when he could just sub a forward for a cb to close out the last few minutes. Bringing on likes of Jair when we need to score.

The style is pretty boring. Sideways, slow, football. I would accept this if it achieved results but it doesn't work against anyone. Losses to St Johnstone and Ross County as well as losses to Aberdeen, Hearts.

And lastly the lack of charisma or "getting hibs". Dull personality, lack of passion, lack of fight and now he's adding in silly comments like seconds from jubilation at scraping top 6, on an upward trajectory and hinting the fans are making it difficult for players.

He's actually lucky he's been spared a super toxic Easter Road turning on him because he's been so bad people are beyond angry and have become apathetic to the club. That's even worse and will damage us far more long term when people start doing other things instead of attending games.

So no, I wouldn't be sticking with him. He has to go and I have no idea why he hasn't been sacked already.

This 100%. Boring football that doesn’t get results.

[BILLYHIBS]

No totally uninspiring no light at the end of the tunnel clueless, hopeless would not be surprised if he is already gone if not will not be here in August ( I hope )

Starting to regret renewing 2 x ST’s seriously considering not going tomorrow don’t think I could stand another doing and a boring inept spineless performance that lacks conviction Coronation Street looks more appealing

Monty Out !

Rant over

[Paulie Walnuts]

Absolutely no chance imo. A truly terrible manager.

[He's here!]

Presume you meant to type 1989. I posted on another thread that Ferguson finished second in 1987/88, his first full season with Utd, winning 81 points from 40 games. So a pretty strong start.

The next league season was poor (11th), and the following season they won the FA Cup. I think they only had two seasons where they didn’t win anything between then and his retirement 23 years later.

But there really is no comparison here. As you have noted, Ferguson’s success at Aberdeen was absolutely phenomenal. Montgomery essentially won a cup with CCM - which he obviously deserves credit for, especially how they won that final - but he had managed something like 62/63 games before he came here.

Ferguson was at Aberdeen for eight years, and managed them in 459 matches - winning 11 trophies. That’s what afforded him one bad season at Utd.

Yes, sorry I meant 1989.

I agree there's no real comparison, but he did go from 1986 to 1990 without a trophy at United and was most certainly a game or two away from the sack.

[hibsbollah]

Of course theres a chance.
Theres very little evidence so far that hes got what it takes though.

Theres also very little evidence that the next Hibs manager will be doing anything else but trying to take a slash with his hands tied behind his back. And only Gary Locke comes out of that scenario with any pleasure.

A better question might be ‘What chance is there that in about 9 months from now we are having a very similar conversation about a very similar clown/wage thief/idiot/insert your own insult?’.

Changing the manager cant be the only change we do. I get the impression some folk on here think thats an end in itself.

[Stuart93]

Of course the possibility exists….for any manager.

As someone who has seen Monty as a successful manager, I believe the torrid season we have had will make him a better, more experienced manager.

He’s never really experienced the pressure he’s had here before as a manager…..he’s certainly never had to fight for his job.

Perhaps he needed those kinds of experiences to round out his managerial education.

I’d like to see him get the chance to change the squad to suit his plans.

Contrary to what has been said we CAN keep changing managers every year…….as we have done recently……but it doesn’t seem to be a formula for success.

He’s kind of fell at the first hurdle dealing with pressure then hasn’t he? Something he wants his players to do better as well.

What is his plans? I keep seeing this nod towards a plan. There seems to be absolutely no plan when we’re on the pitch.

He’s not doing too well at fighting for his job that’s for sure. If fighting for his job after not finishing top 6 is a 4-0 skudding at home to Aberdeen then dearie me

[He's here!]

I remember them winning 0-5 at Easter road in the early 80’s
I think it wasnt just a nightmare anyway.

They won 5-0 at ER in 1980 to clinch the title for the first time under Fergie (we were already relegated) and 5-0 again in the early 80s. I also remember them winning 4-1 at ER in a Scottish Cup tie although we made more of a game of it. They were a terrific side then though and I recall being ecstatic when we managed to beat them 2-1 circa 1983 (Willie Irvine double IIRC).

[Itsnoteasy]

I remember them winning 0-5 at Easter road in the early 80’s
I think it wasnt just a nightmare anyway.

That was a $h1t hot team & they won the league at ER.

[GreenCastle]

It would be easier to persevere and trust him if there were positive signs of progress during his time here.

There's a couple games we started well for 30 mins or so but the team has such a tendency to collapse at the slightest bit of adversity.

Initially he rigidly stuck to his system to the detriment of the cbs, Levitt, Newell, Youan and Vente. He never wanted to adapt or adjust to the players he had until the St Mirren home game.


He then did change system after that and there was small shoots of improvement but the longer he coaches the players and squad the worse the majority of them get.

Boyle at the Asia Cup, he was doing well away from Monty then comes back and isn't effective for us. I can't think of 1 player he's improved except maybe Marshall?

Hes refused to play Hanlon who is still our best cb at the club.

The in game management is woeful, like for like subs, how many leads chucked late on when he could just sub a forward for a cb to close out the last few minutes. Bringing on likes of Jair when we need to score.

The style is pretty boring. Sideways, slow, football. I would accept this if it achieved results but it doesn't work against anyone. Losses to St Johnstone and Ross County as well as losses to Aberdeen, Hearts.

And lastly the lack of charisma or "getting hibs". Dull personality, lack of passion, lack of fight and now he's adding in silly comments like seconds from jubilation at scraping top 6, on an upward trajectory and hinting the fans are making it difficult for players.

He's actually lucky he's been spared a super toxic Easter Road turning on him because he's been so bad people are beyond angry and have become apathetic to the club. That's even worse and will damage us far more long term when people start doing other things instead of attending games.

So no, I wouldn't be sticking with him. He has to go and I have no idea why he hasn't been sacked already.

This..

The Ferguson comparisons are such an easy one to bring up all the time but totally different circumstances.

It wouldn’t be so bad if we were hard to beat - that should be the first thing we sorted. But we are still soft as ever and that’s been proven with 0-3 against St Mirren and 0-4 against Aberdeen. There was no major pressure in the Aberdeen
game but then comes out after game and says players find it hard playing at home in that environment ?!

The semi final against Aberdeen still annoys me too - massive Hibs crowd and opportunity to get to final - credit in the bank. Lost to 10 men and brought on x2 16 year olds to win the game with 10 mins to go.

Played an awful Aberdeen x5 this season.

David Gray and Monty beat them once each.

Monty lost 2 - semi and 4-0 and drew 1 against them.

[Forza Fred]

He’s kind of fell at the first hurdle dealing with pressure then hasn’t he? Something he wants his players to do better as well.

What is his plans? I keep seeing this nod towards a plan. There seems to be absolutely no plan when we’re on the pitch.

He’s not doing too well at fighting for his job that’s for sure. If fighting for his job after not finishing top 6 is a 4-0 skudding at home to Aberdeen then dearie me

I don't know what his plan is.

I guess we won't know unless he is given the opportunity to implement it with the players he thinks can do it.

Presumably he thinks the current mob aren't fit for purpose.

[Allyg69]

Simply because he hasn't even been trying to adapt he has to go. No sign of any managerial skill whatsoever

[Basildon Hibs]

Sticking with the OP - No.

[Spike Mandela]

Playing devil’s advocate here.

What if he HAS learnt from his mistakes this year? What if he is a young manager who has had a rude introduction to Scottish football and admittedly struggled but has the determination to prove doubters wrong? What if he gets the players that suit his management style and gets a preseason with them? What if he and the club sign us two of the best centre half’s we’ve seen since Blackley? What if we get a good start next season and VAR and referees are kinder to us?

All what if’s but WHAT IF, for once, we as a club just actually stand by a manager in adversity and actually PERSEVERE we may just reap dividends.

[darwenhibby]

Has he done a Butcher and told players they won’t be here next season then relying on them for results.
Reminds me more of Duff Jimmy where we started games ok and collapse after conceding.
It needs a Stubbs type clear out

[Stuart93]

Playing devil’s advocate here.

What if he HAS learnt from his mistakes this year? What if he is a young manager who has had a rude introduction to Scottish football and admittedly struggled but has the determination to prove doubters wrong? What if he gets the players that suit his management style and gets a preseason with them? What if he and the club sign us two of the best centre half’s we’ve seen since Blackley? What if we get a good start next season and VAR and referees are kinder to us?

All what if’s but WHAT IF, for once, we as a club just actually stand by a manager in adversity and actually PERSEVERE we may just reap dividends.

Aye or WHAT IF he’s just as bad as he’s been this season and we end up relegated next year?

All we have to go on currently is how bad we’ve been this year under him.

What if eh

[easty]

Yes it was a different era and Alex Ferguson had already enjoyed phenomenal success as a manager in Scotland, but it took him four years at Man U before he won a trophy and the rest is history. Is it even remotely possible we could reap the rewards of remaining patient with Monty rather than simply sacking managers once a year?

I sense the answer will be no from the vast majority, but someone has posted this article about Monty's footballing philosophy on another thread which has given me pause for thought:

https://www.coachesvoice.com/cv/nick-montgomery-central-coast-mariners-sheffield-united/

SAF before Man Utd, 3 x SPL wins, 4 x Scottish Cup wins, 1 x League Cup wins, 1 x European Cup Winners Cup win.

Monty before Hibs. 60 games managing in the Aussie league.

It’s far easier to have a good philosophy of how you want to manage a side than it is to actually do it.

Monty has nae credit in the bank pre-Hibs that mitigates the **** show we’ve endured with him as manager

[flash]

We will never know.

[Spike Mandela]

Playing devil’s advocate here.

What if he HAS learnt from his mistakes this year? What if he is a young manager who has had a rude introduction to Scottish football and admittedly struggled but has the determination to prove doubters wrong? What if he gets the players that suit his management style and gets a preseason with them? What if he and the club sign us two of the best centre half’s we’ve seen since Blackley? What if we get a good start next season and VAR and referees are kinder to us?

All what if’s but WHAT IF, for once, we as a club just actually stand by a manager in adversity and actually PERSEVERE we may just reap dividends.

Wasted five mins of my life typing that ***** out.:greengrin

[He's here!]

We will never know.

Ah, indeed not.

Oh well, rip it up and start again...again.

[Forza Fred]

Yep

Feel gutted for him on a personal level, but expected after Sunday.

[Donegal Hibby]

Yep

Feel gutted for him on a personal level, but expected after Sunday.

Really sorry for him on a personal level too though after Sunday knew it was coming . Still think the guy was dealt a very bad hand at us .

What a mess we are in , can't talk about Watford or Sunderland being a basket case club when our owns as bad sadly 😞

[One Day Soon]

Of course theres a chance.
Theres very little evidence so far that hes got what it takes though.

Theres also very little evidence that the next Hibs manager will be doing anything else but trying to take a slash with his hands tied behind his back. And only Gary Locke comes out of that scenario with any pleasure.

A better question might be ‘What chance is there that in about 9 months from now we are having a very similar conversation about a very similar clown/wage thief/idiot/insert your own insult?’.

Changing the manager cant be the only change we do. I get the impression some folk on here think thats an end in itself.

That's a .net cracker. Top marks from me.

[Northernhibee]

Genuinely think he’d do well if he was at a well run club. Wish him all the best.

If we make no changes in the structure of football related decisions at the club it’ll be a pointless sacking but if it ends up a catalyst for change then that would be a positive.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Really sorry for him on a personal level too though after Sunday knew it was coming . Still think the guy was dealt a very bad hand at us .

What a mess we are in , can't talk about Watford or Sunderland being a basket case club when our owns as bad sadly 😞

We’re not though. We’re not even close to Watford especially or Sunderland in terms of manager churn.