Downward trajectory

[matty_f]

Monty spoke about the club being on an awkward trajectory in his post-match interview yesterday, and it felt like complete gaslighting.

The team has slid from fourth place to ninth in the league. We've jumped from one shambolic result to another.

The pattern under Monty is week to week decline rather than improvement - even the January signings (touted, I think, by Monty as the best January window ever) only offered a short term reprieve from the slide, before we went downhill again.

Yesterday wasn't just expected, it was inevitable as soon as we went behind.

It was as "Monty's Hibs" a performance as you could get. Toothless in front of goal, overly generous in defence, missing in the midfield.

We are absolutely unable to deal with setbacks which is as much on the players as it is the manager, but the buck stops with him for the character of the team.

The summer window won't fix this, the evidence is there to say that we will come back to these tires of performances over time under Monty regardless of who plays.

[James70]

It won't be a surprise in the slightest if we lose both our final games.

[Greensunshine]

Nobody can argue with anything the OP has said and I’d go even further, the one big thing I’ve not seen from the manager or the players for that matter is anger!

Anger is an emotion that can sometimes be used as a tool to get your players or your team mates attention and maybe help jolt them into upping their performance.

It’s just not been there which tells me there’s no real character in this squad.

Can you imagine say a Yogi Hughes being in this side? He’d have players by the throat.

The players don’t really seem to care. That’s my over riding feeling, they all need to go!

[jeffers]

I thought he said upward, somehow awkward fits better.

[One Day Soon]

Monty spoke about the club being on an awkward trajectory in his post-match interview yesterday, and it felt like complete gaslighting.

The team has slid from fourth place to ninth in the league. We've jumped from one shambolic result to another.

The pattern under Monty is week to week decline rather than improvement - even the January signings (touted, I think, by Monty as the best January window ever) only offered a short term reprieve from the slide, before we went downhill again.

Yesterday wasn't just expected, it was inevitable as soon as we went behind.

It was as "Monty's Hibs" a performance as you could get. Toothless in front of goal, overly generous in defence, missing in the midfield.

We are absolutely unable to deal with setbacks which is as much on the players as it is the manager, but the buck stops with him for the character of the team.

The summer window won't fix this, the evidence is there to say that we will come back to these tires of performances over time under Monty regardless of who plays.


Agree. There's a world of difference between a manager with an appalling record asserting that things are improving on the one hand and ANY actual evidence of improvement on the other.

The harsh truth is that all the available evidence not only doesn't even hint at improvement, it actually screams of freefall.

[Dashing Bob S]

I was an advocate of Monty's but now I would rather we lost the last fixture comfortably to get him away.

[Greenbeard]

Nobody can argue with anything the OP has said and I’d go even further, the one big thing I’ve not seen from the manager or the players for that matter is anger!

Anger is an emotion that can sometimes be used as a tool to get your players or your team mates attention and maybe help jolt them into upping their performance.

It’s just not been there which tells me there’s no real character in this squad.

Can you imagine say a Yogi Hughes being in this side? He’d have players by the throat.

The players don’t really seem to care. That’s my over riding feeling, they all need to go!
Get your point although I don't think anger is the right word, at least not on the pitch. Anger has negative connotations and while there might sometimes be a positive, there's more likely to be negatives - ill discipline, the impact on team togetherness etc. What is missing, with few exceptions, is fight and determination. Too many players playing with a casual, lazy attitude when they should be fighting for every ball, tracking every run, and making runs themselves as if their lives depended on it. Levitt's malaise must be as contagious as Covid 'cos it seems to have spread.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Sunday was abject from a team that has won 12 out of 37 games since Montgomery took over, two of them against lower league opposition, could easily be 12 out of 39 by the time this season ends.

You can understand a big drop in attendance when all that's left is two dead rubbers, but 15 minutes from the end on Sunday you would be lucky if 2000 out of a home support of about 7000 were still in the ground. I stayed to the end and I doubt I've made it back to Gala so quickly all season it was so quiet around the stadium when we left.

That will be us all next season unless something drastic happens. The 2016 effect is well and truly OVER and to win the fans back is going to need some major good news in the summer.

For me the delusion surrounding this club and the folk playing for it can be summed up by Chris Cadden, in the papers last week saying he was hoping he might get a call from Steve Clarke. In what F'ing universe? The guy has been out injured practically all season, can't defend for toffee and in the opposition final 3rd where he is slightly better his delivery into the box can best be described as patchy.

We need a good keeper. With the possible exception of Obita we need a whole new back 4. At least 3 new midfield players better than what we have. And a tall battering ram striker who might win a header in the box, the lack of which makes us so easy to defend against.

What a mess !!

[Greenbeard]

Sunday was abject from a team that has won 12 out of 37 games since Montgomery took over, two of them against lower league opposition, could easily be 12 out of 39 by the time this season ends.

You can understand a big drop in attendance when all that's left is two dead rubbers, but 15 minutes from the end on Sunday you would be lucky if 2000 out of a home support of about 7000 were still in the ground. I stayed to the end and I doubt I've made it back to Gala so quickly all season it was so quiet around the stadium when we left.

That will be us all next season unless something drastic happens. The 2016 effect is well and truly OVER and to win the fans back is going to need some major good news in the summer.

For me the delusion surrounding this club and the folk playing for it can be summed up by Chris Cadden, in the papers last week saying he was hoping he might get a call from Steve Clarke. In what F'ing universe? The guy has been out injured practically all season, can't defend for toffee and in the opposition final 3rd where he is slightly better his delivery into the box can best be described as patchy.

We need a good keeper. With the possible exception of Obita we need a whole new back 4. At least 3 new midfield players better than what we have. And a tall battering ram striker who might win a header in the box, the lack of which makes us so easy to defend against.

What a mess !!
It certainly is a mess given that I have started missing Dodgy Doidge. Heid like a threepenny bit but an exemplary work rate.

[Cat Stanton]

I've been in the "can't keep sacking managers" camp, and have been desperately hoping his experience in Australia (where he apparently came good in his second season after a poor first) was a possible extra reason to give him more time. But, Jesus, the regularity of these dismal performances makes you wonder if he's capable of any improvement.

I'm no fan of Willie Miller, but his comment on the BBC seems pertinent:

Former Aberdeen manager Willie Miller commented: "Coaches spend way too much time trying to emulate the very top clubs, the Manchester Cities of this world, when they don't have the raw material at hand.
"It's about other aspects of it. It is about characters, it's about determination, it's about leaders. There was very little of that on show from a Hibs point of view and that's what will be concerning for the directors and for the owners of this club."

(From: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cydrz14rmlro)

[Risboro Hibby]

[QUOTE=Greenbeard;7656904]It certainly is a mess given that I have started missing Dodgy Doidge. Heid like a threepenny bit but an exemplary work rate.[/QUOTE

Certainly agree. He to me anyway was our player who opposition defenders were concerned about most when crosses were coming into the box

That to me just sums up the mediocrity of this squad when he has now found his place in English Non league football.

[Contador]

Lets be honest, this has been the case at the club for long before Monty's arrival. We have been floundering aimlessly for over a decade now.

We get the odd season where we get a bit of a new manager bounce and make the top 6 but there is zero signs of progression or anything for us to buy into over a longer period of time. The whole 'hibs are falling apart again' and 'hibsed it' narrative trotted out by other club's fans in the league unfortunately holds weight, we are a laughing stock.

One third place finish in 18 years is a disgrace for a club of our size.

The next appointment has to be a manager who has the charisma and balls to do things their way and give us something to buy into that will see us work towards reaching our potential as a club over a sustained period. And we as supporters need to keep the head with it.

I have never felt as uneasy and nervous about a managerial appointment as the next one, if we continue in this malaise for the next few seasons I really fear for whats to come for us.

[Walkerbaws]

Monty’s interview yesterday was just a lot of nonsense words coming out his mouth. Blaming the fact that he didn’t get a pre season to implement his football on the team. Didn’t we have a warm weather training holiday during winter, in which we came back even worse than before we went.

Also, all this nonsense about implementing a culture around the club, surely over 9 months in charge and a transfer window to throw in the mix is enough time to implement some kind of a shift in culture.

You can’t pull the wool over the supporters eyes, and the board should be seriously worried if they keep this guy in a job next season, not only for the money they will be wasting but also the supporters they’ll be losing and finding very hard to gain back.

[Real Emerald]

Monty spoke about the club being on an awkward trajectory in his post-match interview yesterday, and it felt like complete gaslighting.

The team has slid from fourth place to ninth in the league. We've jumped from one shambolic result to another.

The pattern under Monty is week to week decline rather than improvement - even the January signings (touted, I think, by Monty as the best January window ever) only offered a short term reprieve from the slide, before we went downhill again.

Yesterday wasn't just expected, it was inevitable as soon as we went behind.

It was as "Monty's Hibs" a performance as you could get. Toothless in front of goal, overly generous in defence, missing in the midfield.

We are absolutely unable to deal with setbacks which is as much on the players as it is the manager, but the buck stops with him for the character of the team.

The summer window won't fix this, the evidence is there to say that we will come back to these tires of performances over time under Monty regardless of who plays.

Rudderless from top to bottom. I’m amazed the guy was hired in the first place, he has no presence, charisma or leadership qualities and it’s been obvious for many months he doesn’t have the tactical nouse either.

I’m shocked that the club were willing to stick with him going forwards when he’s shown not one glimmer of hope he can sort things. I’m completely at a loss to why the board can say the bottom six finish was unacceptable and he still kept his job and now after yesterday’s show, attendance and crowd reaction he’s still in post this morning.

The club have completely failed on the football side when everything was in place to push forward after our cup win. Complete shambles,

[Jim44]

I’m assuming the decision to sack NM has not yet been made. Ironically, success in the last two games could be disastrous for the club.

[tonyrougier123]

You could debate it for hours Matty.

Basics, basic tactics basic squad building.

Build from the back up instead of top down.
We’ve brought in flair but no determined point proving players.
We’ve neglected the idea of keeping a clean sheet first over relying on attacking midfielders being in the mood with no plan b.

We need competition for places in the team,so easy to get a game for hibs I’d fancy my chances with a few training sessions 😝.

The fans have no hero’s in this side,no fighters no real leaders and a lack of fan relationship with the squad is a worry.

The manager is a bit uninspiring and that team character reflects his style.

Messy but not unfixable.

If we are to change manager and recruitment I’d happily see a mcleish mackay mcinness tie in,these types Nigel Pearson another I like. Someone with a bit of Billy big baws attitude might do the trick.

[Real Emerald]

You could debate it for hours Matty.

Basics, basic tactics basic squad building.

Build from the back up instead of top down.
We’ve brought in flair but no determined point proving players.
We’ve neglected the idea of keeping a clean sheet first over relying on attacking midfielders being in the mood with no plan b.

We need competition for places in the team,so easy to get a game for hibs I’d fancy my chances with a few training sessions 😝.

The fans have no hero’s in this side,no fighters no real leaders and a lack of fan relationship with the squad is a worry.

The manager is a bit uninspiring and that team character reflects his style.

Messy but not unfixable.

If we are to change manager and recruitment I’d happily see a mcleish mackay mcinness tie in,these types Nigel Pearson another I like. Someone with a bit of Billy big baws attitude might do the trick.

I hope I’m wrong but I get the feeling the board and owners don’t want a manager with a strong presence and personality. I think they like a yes man that can be manipulated.

[A Hi-Bee]

A downward spiral, very difficult to stop or get out from, I happen to think (although dont agree) that he will be here next season.
We are doomed a tell yie.

[tonyrougier123]

I hope I’m wrong but I get the feeling the board and owners don’t want a manager with a strong presence and personality. I think they like a yes man that can be manipulated.

Probably spot on 👍🏻

[The Captain....]

If the club thinks for one minute there is any chance of us accepting Montgomery staying they are ****ing mad.

9th place...read that again 9th place. That's with all the money *****ed on players, coaches, analysts, training centres etc etc, a cast of thousands it seems to be 9th in one of the worst leagues quality wise ever.

I'm still livid after yesterday..if anything I'm angrier he's not gone yet.

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[StevieHendo]

The concern for me is the platform. what are we building on?

Hearts - Spending money, still bringing up some youths
Kilmarnock - Shrewd in transfer market, found few gems in there youth ranks.
Dundee - Bought okay, but some of there academy again fitting in seamlessly.

I dont see what our positives are? i think our season can be summed up in a comparison to Emiliano, the guys undoubtedly fantastic. but so scarcely shows it, was unplayable at tynie, and at McDermid park produced some magic, but then you have games like yesterday he cant be arsed. it's had that vibe about it from our whole camp this year every time i think we cant keep sacking managers and trying again the manager we have does something that makes me say sod that, hes got to go. and its like Tourette's at this stage

[heid the baw]

[QUOTE=Cat Stanton;7656918]

I'm no fan of Willie Miller, but his comment on the BBC seems pertinent:

Former Aberdeen manager Willie Miller commented: "Coaches spend way too much time trying to emulate the very top clubs, the Manchester Cities of this world, when they don't have the raw material at hand.
"It's about other aspects of it. It is about characters, it's about determination, it's about leaders. There was very little of that on show from a Hibs point of view and that's what will be concerning for the directors and for the owners of this club."

I saw that quote too and couldn't agree more, especially about the total lack of leadership and character. He has failed to identify or get in a leader on the park

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Monty spoke about the club being on an awkward trajectory in his post-match interview yesterday, and it felt like complete gaslighting.

The team has slid from fourth place to ninth in the league. We've jumped from one shambolic result to another.

The pattern under Monty is week to week decline rather than improvement - even the January signings (touted, I think, by Monty as the best January window ever) only offered a short term reprieve from the slide, before we went downhill again.

Yesterday wasn't just expected, it was inevitable as soon as we went behind.

It was as "Monty's Hibs" a performance as you could get. Toothless in front of goal, overly generous in defence, missing in the midfield.

We are absolutely unable to deal with setbacks which is as much on the players as it is the manager, but the buck stops with him for the character of the team.

The summer window won't fix this, the evidence is there to say that we will come back to these tires of performances over time under Monty regardless of who plays.

when I along with yourself and others from here were at HTC to see the “sports bras” update Hecky was about to be dumped but he spoke with an intensity and clarity.


as I recall the backdrop.

Vela wasn’t working out
Newell was taking time to settle
Doige had yet to score ( and hit is subsequent purple patch)


he was to be fired in the next week:fortnight.

he talked about the need for players to be althletes first and foremost (almost a given) esp if we were to look to sell down south. He talked about running Motherwell off the park (yet I think we lost)

I asked him about it being more than just the stats and he outlined the other things - aside from physical prowess. In this he also alluded (IMO) to the psychology/ mentality of the players “it’s in their head”. Take a look at Doidge there you have it. he did mention that the plan was to get a psychologist to work along with the team for following season.

and here we are - arguably less talent and in a rut but perhaps the underlying mentality / psychology thing is still the biggest thing (lack of talent aside!)

[Crazyhorse]

[QUOTE=Cat Stanton;7656918]

I'm no fan of Willie Miller, but his comment on the BBC seems pertinent:

Former Aberdeen manager Willie Miller commented: "Coaches spend way too much time trying to emulate the very top clubs, the Manchester Cities of this world, when they don't have the raw material at hand.
"It's about other aspects of it. It is about characters, it's about determination, it's about leaders. There was very little of that on show from a Hibs point of view and that's what will be concerning for the directors and for the owners of this club."

I saw that quote too and couldn't agree more, especially about the total lack of leadership and character. He has failed to identify or get in a leader on the park

Clearly NM had lost the dressing room. It’s maybe unprofessional but everyone knows the rot has completely set in and they have given up caring.

[NYHibby]

I’m assuming the decision to sack NM has not yet been made. Ironically, success in the last two games could be disastrous for the club.

If you only look at the table and ignore everything else, we had three points from four games when he was hired. For the games he was in charge, we managed 1.25 points per game. At that rate, if he was in charge for the first games, we would have made the top six.

If we win the final two games and finish 7th, one could argue that he inherited a mid-table team which wasn’t beating bottom six teams, that despite the disadvantages of joining mid-season that he managed to get mid-table results over the games he was in charge, and that while finishing 7th is a step backwards from 5th last season, Monty’s record (including the two hypothetical wins) is comparable to Johnson’s, Monty’s time is not a clear step backwards and therefore he has done just enough to get the summer to see if he can improve things.

(Trying to play the devil’s advocate with the above)

[One Day Soon]

Actually killing myself laughing looking at the press conference where Montgomery was announced flanked by Kensell and Gordon.

Kensell confidently asserts that we have a really good squad and Monty is in agreement that there's a good squad there. And that's BEFORE he made his January signings.

Now we need a wholesale clearout. These jokers don't know what they're doing. But, yeah, sure, you know, we're so close, sure, yeah, you know.

[mcohibs]

If you only look at the table and ignore everything else , we had three points from four games when he was hired. For the games he was in charge, we managed 1.25 points per game. At that rate, if he was in charge for the first games, we would have made the top six.

If we win the final two games and finish 7th, one could argue that he inherited a mid-table team which wasn’t beating bottom six teams, that despite the disadvantages of joining mid-season that he managed to get mid-table results over the games he was in charge, and that while finishing 7th is a step backwards from 5th last season, Monty’s record (including the two hypothetical wins) is comparable to Johnson’s, Monty’s time is not a clear step backwards and therefore he has done just enough to get the summer to see if he can improve things.

(Trying to play the devil’s advocate with the above)

Surely doing exactly that shows you that NM (likely to finish 9th) is a backwards step from LJ (finished 5th)

[Ronniekirk]

Monty spoke about the club being on an awkward trajectory in his post-match interview yesterday, and it felt like complete gaslighting.

The team has slid from fourth place to ninth in the league. We've jumped from one shambolic result to another.

The pattern under Monty is week to week decline rather than improvement - even the January signings (touted, I think, by Monty as the best January window ever) only offered a short term reprieve from the slide, before we went downhill again.

Yesterday wasn't just expected, it was inevitable as soon as we went behind.

It was as "Monty's Hibs" a performance as you could get. Toothless in front of goal, overly generous in defence, missing in the midfield.

We are absolutely unable to deal with setbacks which is as much on the players as it is the manager, but the buck stops with him for the character of the team.

The summer window won't fix this, the evidence is there to say that we will come back to these tires of performances over time under Monty regardless of who plays.

Well said Matty I have lost my Hibs Mojo over the last few years attending only a handful of games a season now I was going to get a Season Ticket for next Season but I won’t as have no Faith Monty is right Manager and no great faith in those who are identifying players for Recruitment
The only reason I will be there mid week is out of respect for Lewis and Paul and the service they have given the Club
Although it probably wouldn’t take much to persuade me not to go
I can’t believe the mess we are in , and as you point out we are getting worse
Motherwell just put five past a team that beat us 2 1
Failure to bring in a first team ready Centre Half was just inexplicable . But you could go on and on regarding where things haven’t been right
For Monty to then turn round blame the fans was last straw for me Great bac king away at Ross County and Motherwell to mention only two games where late goals cost us crucial points That was nothing to do with the Fans it’s on him and the players

[matty_f]

Actually killing myself laughing looking at the press conference where Montgomery was announced flanked by Kensell and Gordon.

Kensell confidently asserts that we have a really good squad and Monty is in agreement that there's a good squad there. And that's BEFORE he made his January signings.

Now we need a wholesale clearout. These jokers don't know what they're doing. But, yeah, sure, you know, we're so close, sure, yeah, you know.

The chat about the job that Montgomery was brought in to do that's coming from Monty is bordering on gaslighting.

Nobody was talking about a complete rebuild, a squad rebuild, needing multiple windows, changing the culture etc when he was hired.

He needed to make that squad perform to their abilities and the goal was very much still top four.

When you hear him now you'd think he was in to save us from relegation and hopefully make top 6.

[Real Emerald]

The chat about the job that Montgomery was brought in to do that's coming from Monty is bordering on gaslighting.

Nobody was talking about a complete rebuild, a squad rebuild, needing multiple windows, changing the culture etc when he was hired.

He needed to make that squad perform to their abilities and the goal was very much still top four.

When you hear him now you'd think he was in to save us from relegation and hopefully make top 6.

Exactly, it’s rewriting expectations down at every juncture to somehow make it look like he’s hit his targets and doing a good job. A bit like me with the housework. 😁

[we are hibs]

Actually killing myself laughing looking at the press conference where Montgomery was announced flanked by Kensell and Gordon.

Kensell confidently asserts that we have a really good squad and Monty is in agreement that there's a good squad there. And that's BEFORE he made his January signings.

Now we need a wholesale clearout. These jokers don't know what they're doing. But, yeah, sure, you know, we're so close, sure, yeah, you know.Was that the press conference Kensell continually referenced that Montgomery was McDermotts man? Absolving himself of any blame on day one incase it went tits up. Sums up his and the clubs lack of accountability and leadership.

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[Alex Trager]

Was that the press conference Kensell continually referenced that Montgomery was McDermotts man? Absolving himself of any blame on day one incase it went tits up. Sums up his and the clubs lack of accountability and leadership.

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I can’t recall that but that is a Kensell classic. Whenever I have spoken to him he continually bums up the things he has done and quickly makes it clear ‘that’s not my decision’. He would say things like ‘you’re right, I could see that at the time as well, but it wasn’t my decision’.

Takes absolutely NO responsibility for the failings.

[green day]

The chat about the job that Montgomery was brought in to do that's coming from Monty is bordering on gaslighting.

Nobody was talking about a complete rebuild, a squad rebuild, needing multiple windows, changing the culture etc when he was hired.

He needed to make that squad perform to their abilities and the goal was very much still top four.

When you hear him now you'd think he was in to save us from relegation and hopefully make top 6.

This is the stuff that managers desperately say just before they are fired.

That, and "this is a difficult place for players" and "I need 2 or 3 windows".

Its all pish, ask the managers of St Mirren, Dundee - or even the temp manager of Aberdeen.

A good manager deals with the lazy players, improves the ones that can be improved and ships out the dross.

NM has demonstrably been unable to do any of that, and needs ****canned asap.

[One Day Soon]

I can’t recall that but that is a Kensell classic. Whenever I have spoken to him he continually bums up the things he has done and quickly makes it clear ‘that’s not my decision’. He would say things like ‘you’re right, I could see that at the time as well, but it wasn’t my decision’.

Takes absolutely NO responsibility for the failings.

£300,000 a year. No danger he's going to let ANY responsibility stick to him if he can avoid it. Who else would be daft enough to pay him that money?

[Pretty Boy]

We have a bloated squad but very little in the way of options to change it up. A real lack of youngsters pushing for 1st team football. A manager who looks out of his depth and scared of his own shadow. A CEO who has at least 2 failed managerial appointment behind him and a DoF with one. Multiple poor transfer windows in a row. A whole host of players we don't want here under contract for at least one more season (I looked the other day and there is close to a full team of players we signed as first team players and subsequently decided we didn't fancy).

If this is an upwards trajectory then I dread to see what a crisis looks like. I'm a die hard and won't be turning my back on Hibs anytime soon but at a time when there should be an air of real optimism I don't think I have felt this deflated and negative about the club in a decade and we all know how that turned out.

[snedzuk]

Was that the press conference Kensell continually referenced that Montgomery was McDermotts man? Absolving himself of any blame on day one incase it went tits up. Sums up his and the clubs lack of accountability and leadership.

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Picking up a point from a parallel thread - is that the same McDermott who was at pains to stress Dylan Vente was scouted by Ian Gordon - incase that went tits up.