Mistakes mistakes mistakes

[Tully]

No team has to work for goals against us, we constantly give away cheap goals, rocky and that clown in goals handed it to them on a plate, every week it’s the same old story roll on the end of the season

[Greensunshine]

Our squad is bloated with pish bang average players.

I have little or no faith in the people who are charged with signing new players for next season.

We are bang in trouble unless we can find a manager who can identify the right players.

Monty is not that man.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Training team needs an overhaul. The type of errors our players make go beyond simply being a poor standard. Even low quality players can get the fundamental basics right. Ours can't. Our defenders and goalkeepers in particular.

[Smartie]

Good players don’t make the mistakes our players make with such regularity - ie our players simply cannot be considered to be that good.

[Northernhibee]

This is what happens when you put a wine salesman in the position of head of recruitment. That spell of hiring any lower level player from abroad with a modicum of hype about them still haunts us in this team.

That development team idea should have rung alarm bells. That lad Balde now plays at non league level FFS.

[Crab apple]

In the few occassions Wollacot has played he has proven that he is absolutely hopeless. Whoever was involved in signing him should be sacked.

[Northernhibee]

In the few occassions Wollacot has played he has proven that he is absolutely hopeless. Whoever was involved in signing him should be sacked.

The problem is that it’s probably quite easy to come up with 10-12 names in recent seasons that could apply to.

Wallacott, Mueller, Jasper, Hauge, Melkersen, McKirdy, Henderson, Tait, Kenneh, Vente (given how much he cost), Jair, Delferriere, McLelland, Mackay, McGeady..,

[TrinityHFC]

The problem is that it’s probably quite easy to come up with 10-12 names in recent seasons that could apply to.

Wallacott, Mueller, Jasper, Hauge, Melkersen, McKirdy, Henderson, Tait, Kenneh, Vente (given how much he cost), Jair, Delferriere, McLelland, Mackay, McGeady..,

You can always make a list like that. Not just recent seasons. The problem is there hasn’t been a big enough list the other way.

Stubbs signed 31 players. Loads of them could be added to a similar list but we did get quite a few right too.

[A Hi-Bee]

If you aim to get more right than wrong, then you are on to a good thing, thats why you need a good manager along with recruitment that know what they is doing.

[Northernhibee]

You can always make a list like that. Not just recent seasons. The problem is there hasn’t been a big enough list the other way.

Stubbs signed 31 players. Loads of them could be added to a similar list but we did get quite a few right too.

You really can’t. Since Mathie left, recruitment has been absolutely horrific.

[TrinityHFC]

You really can’t. Since Mathie left, recruitment has been absolutely horrific.

I could make a similar list from Mathie’s time no problem. And before then. As I said, the issue is we haven’t had a big enough list of successful signings to go with it.

[Northernhibee]

I could make a similar list from Mathie’s time no problem. And before then. As I said, the issue is we haven’t had a big enough list of successful signings to go with it.

We won the Scottish Cup and had 3rd and 4th placed finishes from his time. We’ve plummeted since then and spent a fortune in doing so.

[we are hibs]

I could make a similar list from Mathie’s time no problem. And before then. As I said, the issue is we haven’t had a big enough list of successful signings to go with it.even when we had a pretty good hit rate on signings in the championship and we signed a player who wasn't good enough at least there was a clear idea behind why they were signed. For example we signed Franck Djedje. Not very good but he was signed because Malonga was away at the AFCON and El Alagui being out for most of the season. Even he contributed with a pretty big goal against Livi late on. Half this lot have contributed absolutely nothing. Why on earth was Mayenda brought in? It's just a waste of time.



We are so scattergun it's unbelievable now.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

even when we had a pretty good hit rate on signings in the championship and we signed a player who wasn't good enough at least there was a clear idea behind why they were signed. For example we signed Franck Djedje. Not very good but he was signed because Malonga was away at the AFCON and El Alagui being out for most of the season. Even he contributed with a pretty big goal against Livi late on. Half this lot have contributed absolutely nothing. Why on earth was Mayenda brought in? It's just a waste of time.



We are so scattergun it's unbelievable now.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Also, we had a plan for Malonga being at the AFCON.

We ended up with Jair and a sixteen year old laddie being first picks because we didn’t think to plan ahead this time around.

[kentao]

In the few occassions Wollacot has played he has proven that he is absolutely hopeless. Whoever was involved in signing him should be sacked.

I can understand why he has had so little chances in the first team truly horrific. What was the point in Hanlon playing the short by kick to the keeper who then tries to go long but cant kick more than 40 yards and missed his target 90% of the time. His passing stats would be interesting to see.

Once Ross County got the equaliser we totally lost all composure and got dominated by a team of triers. Brophy and Murray ran there self's into the ground with both visibly blowing while our superstars barely looked like they got out of second gear.

Marcondes is taking over the Eli Youan role for me, the amount of times he gets into good positions but the move more often than not breaks down through him either by a poor layoff / pass or fancy flick that doesn't come off.

[Smartie]

Also, we had a plan for Malonga being at the AFCON.

We ended up with Jair and a sixteen year old laddie being first picks because we didn’t think to plan ahead this time around.

The bad signings under Stubbs were the best kind of bad signings - they had minimal negative impact and moved on quickly. It was the sort of thing Alex Ferguson was famous for - not never making mistakes but acknowledging and rectifying them quickly.

The dross acquired under this regime is going to expensively stink the place out and hold us back for a fair while.

[jakeshibs]

Its amazing that our defensive coach throughout this horrendous few years has been david Gray yet he escapes criticism yet has to hold alot of the responsibility as works with the defence everyday and they are extremely poor.

[berwickhibee]

Also, we had a plan for Malonga being at the AFCON.

We ended up with Jair and a sixteen year old laddie being first picks because we didn’t think to plan ahead this time around.

100%

Very unprofessional from Hibs

Glaringly obvious we needed a right back

[Allant1981]

Its amazing that our defensive coach throughout this horrendous few years has been david Gray yet he escapes criticism yet has to hold alot of the responsibility as works with the defence everyday and they are extremely poor.

You could have guardiola coaching us just now and it wouldn't stop these mistakes, the players just aren't very good

[oneone73]

Its amazing that our defensive coach throughout this horrendous few years has been david Gray yet he escapes criticism yet has to hold alot of the responsibility as works with the defence everyday and they are extremely poor.

Is that true? Or .net myth?

[JohnM1875]

Is that true? Or .net myth?

I was told he was our attacking set play coach. Who rally knows eh? I'm sure they all do a bit of everything so are all to blame really.

[oldbutdim]

Is that true? Or .net myth?

Net myth.

[Tully]

Doesn’t matter who the coach is it’s obvious these players are beyond coaching to a higher standard as it’s the same old crap we are getting week in and out

[BoomtownHibees]

Its amazing that our defensive coach throughout this horrendous few years has been david Gray yet he escapes criticism yet has to hold alot of the responsibility as works with the defence everyday and they are extremely poor.

Are you sure he is the defensive coach?

[hibee-boys]

Are you sure he is the defensive coach?

I don’t think any coach who has been at the club over the past few years could put a reasonable case forward for continuing in role. Much as I respect SDG I feel he really needs to leave Hibs to cut his managerial cloth elsewhere. I’ve never been comfortable with any member of staff being automatically installed in any role based on histrionic connections to the club. It’s always come across to me as the club trying to pacify fans during the manager merry go round.

[Argylehibby]

The amount of late goals we lose suggests we need a quality fitness coach. We seem to run out of steam in the final 15 minutes.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Are you sure he is the defensive coach?

He’s not.

[Donegal Hibby]

Our squad is bloated with pish bang average players.

I have little or no faith in the people who are charged with signing new players for next season.

We are bang in trouble unless we can find a manager who can identify the right players.

Monty is not that man.

Agree about the squad .

I'm not so sure if I'd say I have little or no faith in the people in charge of signings next season , think the last two January window signings have improved a hell of a lot from previous windows.

Agree we are bang in trouble though not for the reason you suggest .

Maybe he's not the man though I think the signings in his first window in charge have been pretty good imo .

[Is It On....]

I could make a similar list from Mathie’s time no problem. And before then. As I said, the issue is we haven’t had a big enough list of successful signings to go with it.

We got more right than wrong though and, crucially, we didn't take big hits financially on those that didn't work out. We allegedly have / had a link with Brighton and, staggeringly, by Kensall's own admission we didn't utilise it; it's fair to say that Brighton have got a few things right in the last few years. What this has meant is that the failure on the pitch has actually cost the Gordon family another £5m to have a smaller stake in the club after the BK investment. They need this to work or their investment will be further impaired in the future and their hope must be that Foley and his people will sort out the recruitment side which hasn't worked since Ian Gordon became the "figurehead" in charge of it.

[Gettin' Auld]

The amount of late goals we lose suggests we need a quality fitness coach. We seem to run out of steam in the final 15 minutes.
We should employ a mechanic too as we seem to be stuck in second gear too often.

[Donegal Hibby]

We should employ a mechanic too as we seem to be stuck in second gear too often.

And a magician because that's what we need if we think that a manager is going to sort everything out with our squad after only 9 months and one window at the club too .

[Since452]

And a magician because that's what we need if we think that a manager is going to sort everything out with our squad after only 9 months and one window at the club too .

He wasn't expected to sort everything out in 9 months. Small signs of improvement instead of regression would have been nice though.

[500miles]

The amount of late goals we lose suggests we need a quality fitness coach. We seem to run out of steam in the final 15 minutes.

We've signed players who simply don't have a high intensity 90 minutes in them. Levitt, Marcondes, Vente. Ball players, but can struggle when pressed so hard.

[Jim44]

Its amazing that our defensive coach throughout this horrendous few years has been david Gray yet he escapes criticism yet has to hold alot of the responsibility as works with the defence everyday and they are extremely poor.

David Gray was granted ‘legend’ status because his goal that led to our memorable Cup victory. If fate, that day, had worked out differently, the goal might never have been scored and we may never have gone on to win in the end. Don’t get me wrong, I think Gray, was a very good player and great servant to the club, but to assume that a fleeting moment in football history makes a player indispensable and faultless. He is directly involved in the organisation of our feckless defence and this can’t be overlooked when things go tits-up.

[jeffers]

David Gray was granted ‘legend’ status because his goal that led to our memorable Cup victory. If fate, that day, had worked out differently, the goal might never have been scored and we may never have gone on to win in the end. Don’t get me wrong, I think Gray, was a very good player and great servant to the club, but to assume that a fleeting moment in football history makes a player indispensable and faultless. He is directly involved in the organisation of our feckless defence and this can’t be overlooked when things go tits-up.

No matter how many times this inaccuracy is posted and subsequently corrected it inevitably gets brought up again. SDG is not and never has been our defence coach.

[Jim44]

No matter how many times this inaccuracy is posted and subsequently corrected it inevitably gets brought up again. SDG is not and never has been our defence coach.

If you’re right, I stand corrected on my use of ‘directly’ but it doesn’t detract from the fact that he is part of the mess we are in and shouldn’t be overlooked when imparting blame.

[Donegal Hibby]

He wasn't expected to sort everything out in 9 months. Small signs of improvement instead of regression would have been nice though.

Has there been regression though ?, or are we seeing very much the same as we've been witnessing for the past few years .

2021/ 2022 season we finished 8th behind teams like Livvy, Ross C , Motherwell, Dundee U . Even last year when we scrapped 5th place things were much the same with some good results followed by some **** ones .

That year we lost 16 games and even if we lose our remaining 3 fixtures we won't surpass that ! . And don't forget when the current manager took over we were bottom of the league having lost our opening 3 fixtures.

Too many Draws has imo what's killed us this year , if we had turned more of them into wins we'd have probably been ok , fine margins I know.

Our problems is entirely down to poor recruitment over the last couple of years which has left us with a bloated squad of players who aren't good enough . Signing players is easy , trying to move ones on good contracts that don't want to move or aren't wanted by other clubs is were it gets hard for the manager and takes time .

There's no easy fix to our problems whoever the manager is and I certainly think it will take longer than 9 months and one window in order to improve things .

[TrinityHFC]

Has there been regression though ?, or are we seeing very much the same as we've been witnessing for the past few years .

2021/ 2022 season we finished 8th behind teams like Livvy, Ross C , Motherwell, Dundee U . Even last year when we scrapped 5th place things were much the same with some good results followed by some **** ones .

That year we lost 16 games and even if we lose our remaining 3 fixtures we won't surpass that ! . And don't forget when the current manager took over we were bottom of the league having lost our opening 3 fixtures.

Too many Draws has imo what's killed us this year , if we had turned more of them into wins we'd have probably been ok , fine margins I know.

Our problems is entirely down to poor recruitment over the last couple of years which has left us with a bloated squad of players who aren't good enough . Signing players is easy , trying to move ones on good contracts that don't want to move or aren't wanted by other clubs is were it gets hard for the manager and takes time .

There's no easy fix to our problems whoever the manager is and I certainly think it will take longer than 9 months and one window in order to improve things .

Yes we’ve regressed from last season. There’s a difference between still being in the battle for 3rd but finishing 5th to where we are now.

LJ was a much better manager. Paid the price for not starting the season well consistently but we’d have been better off now if we’d not made the change.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t have changed but we should have changed for someone who would have taken us forwards, not backwards.

[tonyrougier123]

You can always make a list like that. Not just recent seasons. The problem is there hasn’t been a big enough list the other way.

Stubbs signed 31 players. Loads of them could be added to a similar list but we did get quite a few right too.

Stubbs started with defence and we’ve never built one since.

[Donegal Hibby]

Yes we’ve regressed from last season. There’s a difference between still being in the battle for 3rd but finishing 5th to where we are now.

LJ was a much better manager. Paid the price for not starting the season well consistently but we’d have been better off now if we’d not made the change.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t have changed but we should have changed for someone who would have taken us forwards, not backwards.

Again that season we lost more games than we will probably this one , it's draws that's been the killer for us this season which isn't entirely down to just the manager .

LJ also left us bottom of the table and wither he would have turned things around is open for debate though the fan's wanted him out at that stage and got their wish .

Only way we are going to move forward is by giving a manager time to sort things out which has been proven at Kilmarnock recently can happen .

[JohnM1875]

Again that season we lost more games than we will probably this one , it's draws that's been the killer for us this season which isn't entirely down to just the manager .

LJ also left us bottom of the table and wither he would have turned things around is open for debate though the fan's wanted him out at that stage and got their wish .

Only way we are going to move forward is by giving a manager time to sort things out which has been proven at Kilmarnock recently can happen .

The only way to move forward is to give the right manager time. That’s the important thing. For me, that isn’t Montgomery.

You give Kilmarnock as an example, McInnes was given time because he’d already got them promoted and shown signs of improvement. Again don’t think Montgomery has done that here. We finished bottom six.

This ‘you can’t keep sacking managers’ chat doesn’t make sense. Of course you can if you keep employing folk that are poor at the job.

2/3 of the longbangers guys are spot on. There absolutely needs to be a lot of changes at the club, but one of those things has to be the manager.

[Donegal Hibby]

The only way to move forward is to give the right manager time. That’s the important thing. For me, that isn’t Montgomery.

You give Kilmarnock as an example, McInnes was given time because he’d already got them promoted and shown signs of improvement. Again don’t think Montgomery has done that here. We finished bottom six.

This ‘you can’t keep sacking managers’ chat doesn’t make sense. Of course you can if you keep employing folk that are poor at the job.

2/3 of the longbangers guys are spot on. There absolutely needs to be a lot of changes at the club, but one of those things has to be the manager.

I'm sorry John but I simply don't agree with you there , McInnes scrapped out of the championship by beating their nearest rival which was a part time team though trying to be fair here I will go along with your comment that it was an improvement .

The following year after stating about not wanting to be involved in another relegation battle and challenging for top 6 because they had more than other clubs in the league ( also fighting for Europe was mentioned) .

The improvement wasn't exactly there to be seen with them struggling in a relegation battle that year .

The "can't keep sacking managers " chat is actually something I think is correct as it's a costly business as well as has it really got us any further forward as we've already being went down this route twice already.

I'm actually more with the 1/3 longerbangers who's probably the smart one . Lol ��

[Smartie]

I’m absolutely torn on it.

John’s viewpoint does have merit imo. There’s a big bit of me that simply wants to see a manager - yes, any manager - get a fair crack of the whip. By that, I mean that it includes targeted recruitment, a full pre-season with the players and a bit of support through tough times when they inevitably come along during the season.

I wouldn’t have had a problem with an early, decisive choice to punt him and get a new man in, like we did with Maloney on to Johnson.

But I feel we sell every manager short and contribute to their failure - even if I fully acknowledge that there have been valid reasons to empty all of our recent managers and as much as I acknowledge that Monty’s not given us much to deserve unanimous support going into the close season.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Stubbs started with defence and we’ve never built one since.

suppose he only had a goalie and 8? outfield players but I take your point.
Jack called it iut tbf - you have to ask why - he must have been pretty exasperated.

[JimBHibees]

Yes we’ve regressed from last season. There’s a difference between still being in the battle for 3rd but finishing 5th to where we are now.

LJ was a much better manager. Paid the price for not starting the season well consistently but we’d have been better off now if we’d not made the change.

That’s not to say we shouldn’t have changed but we should have changed for someone who would have taken us forwards, not backwards.

Yet similarly he would have been bottom 6 if Livi won their league game

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yet similarly he would have been bottom 6 if Livi won their league game

And we’d currently be 9th if Aberdeen and Motherwell had won another league game etc.

There’s not really any point in removing results that did happen and replacing them with hypothetical results that didn’t happen.

[Since452]

Yet similarly he would have been bottom 6 if Livi won their league game

But they didn't. We ended up in the race for 3rd with two games to go. Only finished 5 points off 3rd. Now we're losing to Ross County in the bottom six. However way you want to look at it we've regressed from last season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

But they didn't. We ended up in the race for 3rd with two games to go. Only finished 5 points off 3rd. Now we're losing to Ross County in the bottom six. However way you want to look at it we've regressed from last season.

:agree:

There can be no argument we’ve regressed. We’re guaranteed to be at least 2 places lower in the league and even if we win every remaining game, we’ll still have less points than last season despite the fact we also competed in the top 6 last season.

We have absolutely regressed, that much is inarguable.

[The Modfather]

But they didn't. We ended up in the race for 3rd with two games to go. Only finished 5 points off 3rd. Now we're losing to Ross County in the bottom six. However way you want to look at it we've regressed from last season.

Last season was dire. We lost to every team in the league, regularly went on losing streaks and finished behind two teams who’s performance saw them both sack their managers.

I genuinely don’t see much difference between the two seasons despite the millions Johnson squandered and a summer to prepare. We’re a Nisbet shaped hole poorer IMO. Maolida has played 6 games less than Nisbet did last season but is single handedly carrying us like Nisbet IMO. If we had Maolida for 6 more pre split games he’d have turned a good few of those draws into wins IMO and we’d have been comfortably top 6 and probably about 5th again in another dire season papering over the cracks of a really poor squad.

Neither Johnson or Montgomery are the answer. However our squad was poor last season and is dire this season.

[Donegal Hibby]

The year before we finished 5th we finished 8th behind teams like Livvy , Ross county, Motherwell and Dundee Utd. 8th , 5th , currently 7th .

[Smartie]

Last season was dire. We lost to every team in the league, regularly went on losing streaks and finished behind two teams who’s performance saw them both sack their managers.

I genuinely don’t see much difference between the two seasons despite the millions Johnson squandered and a summer to prepare. We’re a Nisbet shaped hole poorer IMO. Maolida has played 6 games less than Nisbet did last season but is single handedly carrying us like Nisbet IMO. If we had Maolida for 6 more pre split games he’d have turned a good few of those draws into wins IMO and we’d have been comfortably top 6 and probably about 5th again in another dire season papering over the cracks of a really poor squad.

Neither Johnson or Montgomery are the answer. However our squad was poor last season and is dire this season.

The idea of this shower of rubbish without a Maolida or Nisbet is pretty terrifying.

Last season though - I felt like Johnson squeezed every last bit of out of a very limited squad to get it to 5th and we could and should have kicked on during the summer. Johnson was finished when he said he thought we had enough to start the season - we didn't and he paid the price (still not sure how much of that was down to him or "recruitment people"). Sacking Johnson when we did was just symptomatic of a club who didn't have a clue what they were doing.

This season - it feels like Monty should have got more out of these players. He's had Boyle available, Maolida, NMW and Obita yet finished lower.


Personally I think we should have windows where we sack managers and times of year when we don't. If Monty was to go, it should have been when bottom 6 was confirmed and a search now underway for a successor whilst we play out the dead rubbers with Gray in charge again. Since he's still here, for me he gets until the first round of fixtures next season is complete at the very least and all sorts of planning should be underway to help make him a success with adequate summer recruitment.

[easty]

Again that season we lost more games than we will probably this one , it's draws that's been the killer for us this season which isn't entirely down to just the manager .

LJ also left us bottom of the table and wither he would have turned things around is open for debate though the fan's wanted him out at that stage and got their wish .

Only way we are going to move forward is by giving a manager time to sort things out which has been proven at Kilmarnock recently can happen .

I don't know why you always labour the Kilmarnock thing. It's not the same, and you know it.

Killie didn't stick with McInnes when he wasn't doing well enough, Killie stayed up last season following promotion, which would've been the expectations of them. Kilmarnock don't spend the money Hibs do, and the expectations aren't the same here as they are there.

The expectation of Montgomery was that he'd improve us following the sacking of an underperforming manager. He hasn't. He had an opportunity in January to address serious issues in our squad, he didn't. We should be finishing in the top 6. We didn't.

What's happened with McInnes at Killie, and what's happened with Monty at Hibs aren't similar stories.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Last season was dire. We lost to every team in the league, regularly went on losing streaks and finished behind two teams who’s performance saw them both sack their managers.

I genuinely don’t see much difference between the two seasons despite the millions Johnson squandered and a summer to prepare. We’re a Nisbet shaped hole poorer IMO. Maolida has played 6 games less than Nisbet did last season but is single handedly carrying us like Nisbet IMO. If we had Maolida for 6 more pre split games he’d have turned a good few of those draws into wins IMO and we’d have been comfortably top 6 and probably about 5th again in another dire season papering over the cracks of a really poor squad.

Neither Johnson or Montgomery are the answer. However our squad was poor last season and is dire this season.

Our results aren’t any better since Maolida came in. Not sure it stands up to scrutiny that we’d have picked up more points if he came in earlier.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't know why you always labour the Kilmarnock thing. It's not the same, and you know it.

Killie didn't stick with McInnes when he wasn't doing well enough, Killie stayed up last season following promotion, which would've been the expectations of them. Kilmarnock don't spend the money Hibs do, and the expectations aren't the same here as they are there.

The expectation of Montgomery was that he'd improve us following the sacking of an underperforming manager. He hasn't. He had an opportunity in January to address serious issues in our squad, he didn't. We should be finishing in the top 6. We didn't.

What's happened with McInnes at Killie, and what's happened with Monty at Hibs aren't similar stories.

:agree:

The desperation to hold Kilmarnock and Hibs to the same standards to try and prove a nonsense point is quite something.

McInnes has confirmed he’s hit his performance target as Kilmarnock manager in every single season. On the presumption he’s exceeding it this season then McInnes’ performance at Kilmarnock and Montgomerys at Hibs where he’s been a complete and utter failure have absolutely zero similarities.

If Montgomery came in and got Hibs top 4, top 4 again, then 3rd, then the comparisons to McInnes and his time at Kilmarnock would be relevant.

[Donegal Hibby]

I don't know why you always labour the Kilmarnock thing. It's not the same, and you know it.

Killie didn't stick with McInnes when he wasn't doing well enough, Killie stayed up last season following promotion, which would've been the expectations of them. Kilmarnock don't spend the money Hibs do, and the expectations aren't the same here as they are there.

The expectation of Montgomery was that he'd improve us following the sacking of an underperforming manager. He hasn't. He had an opportunity in January to address serious issues in our squad, he didn't. We should be finishing in the top 6. We didn't.

What's happened with McInnes at Killie, and what's happened with Monty at Hibs aren't similar stories.

Not according to Derek McInnes who claimed they didn't want to be fighting relegation again and spoke about getting into the top 6 and even fighting for Europe .

Even after he said all that and after losing 6 out of his first 8 games and taking a few doings of teams he claimed his had more then he ended up in a relegation battle.

Even though a lot of the Killie fans were far from happy the Kilmarnock board stuck with him and it was only after he got the following summer window was there improvements made that we are now seeing from them .

To say Monty didn't address serious issues with our squad I think your being unfair with , we have improved the midfield from what it was though I think your forgetting how hard managers claim the January window is and that Monty also stated due to having inherited a bloated squad from previous manager's it also was a factor that hindered him in what he could do .

Derek McInnes situation is that it took him the best part of 3 transfer windows to get it right at Killie . We expect our one to get it right in one. Both are similar in they have struggled and the benefits of giving a manager time which McInnes got are clear as day to see .

[jacomo]

The bad signings under Stubbs were the best kind of bad signings - they had minimal negative impact and moved on quickly. It was the sort of thing Alex Ferguson was famous for - not never making mistakes but acknowledging and rectifying them quickly.

The dross acquired under this regime is going to expensively stink the place out and hold us back for a fair while.


This is true.

I also think that Stubbs wanted his first choice players to feel competition for places and not get complacent - for example we signed a lot of wingers in his first season, most of them made no real impact on the first team but no doubt kept them honest in training.

[easty]

Not according to Derek McInnes who claimed they didn't want to be fighting relegation again and spoke about getting into the top 6 and even fighting for Europe .

Even after he said all that and after losing 6 out of his first 8 games and taking a few doings of teams he claimed his had more then he ended up in a relegation battle.

Even though a lot of the Killie fans were far from happy the Kilmarnock board stuck with him and it was only after he got the following summer window was there improvements made that we are now seeing from them .

To say Monty didn't address serious issues with our squad I think your being unfair with , we have improved the midfield from what it was though I think your forgetting how hard managers claim the January window is and that Monty also stated due to having inherited a bloated squad from previous manager's it also was a factor that hindered him in what he could do .

Derek McInnes situation is that it took him the best part of 3 transfer windows to get it right at Killie . We expect our one to get it right in one. Both are similar in they have struggled and the benefits of giving a manager time which McInnes got are clear as day to see .

When does an SPL manager ever say they are aiming to avoid relegation at the start of the season?

The Sky Sports predictions for Killie the season they came up were from Andy Walker and Kris Boyd. They predicted 9th and 10th.

The Sun sports writers predictions for Killie that season were 9th, 11th, 9th, 10th, 6th, 8th, 11th, 8th, 10th, 8th, 9th, 9th (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/9231959/rangers-celtic-title-predictions/)

They came 10th. Doesn't really seem like many folk were expecting much more of them?


As for Monty addressing the serious issues - the thing that needed dealt with was the defence. We signed 2 young laddies who were never what we needed.

The January transfer window isn't this hugely difficult thing to work with that people say it is. We've signed quality players in January windows.

[Donegal Hibby]

When does an SPL manager ever say they are aiming to avoid relegation at the start of the season?

The Sky Sports predictions for Killie the season they came up were from Andy Walker and Kris Boyd. They predicted 9th and 10th.

The Sun sports writers predictions for Killie that season were 9th, 11th, 9th, 10th, 6th, 8th, 11th, 8th, 10th, 8th, 9th, 9th (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/9231959/rangers-celtic-title-predictions/)

They came 10th. Doesn't really seem like many folk were expecting much more of them?


As for Monty addressing the serious issues - the thing that needed dealt with was the defence. We signed 2 young laddies who were never what we needed.

The January transfer window isn't this hugely difficult thing to work with that people say it is. We've signed quality players in January windows.

Wither folk were expecting much more from them or not isn't the issue it's what the Killie manager said about finishing top 6 and challenging for Europe as they had alot more to offer than other clubs in the league .

Anyhow it was only when he was given time in another Summer window were he signed players R. Deas , Matty Kennedy, Kyle Magennis, Kieran O'Hara, Marley Watkins, Tom Davies, Corrie Nadba , Will Dennis and Lewis Mayo that they started to improve.

I disagree with you mate , the main area that needed dealt with first imo opinion was our midfield . I do agree the defence needs sorted too and that we need a keeper , possibly 2 though as our manager said due to having a bloated squad he was somewhat restricted on what he could do . There's a lot needing sorted which was never going to all be fixed in January , it will take longer than that.

McInnes when signing Van Veen and I think Mackay - Stevens stated that they had to move a couple on that would free up some wages and their was one he mentioned were he said in an ideal world I would rather have kept him , can't remember who the player was now .

We did sign quality who are mostly loans either with the help of our connection with Bournemouth or because they were coming back from injury , or had a fall out with their manager etc . In general though it's a bad window to to business in and we'll find it much easier in the summer which is why I think our manager should get time like McInnes did .

The January window most managers have stated how hard it is because teams don't want to lose their better players at that stage in the season and if you are to get them you'll probably have to pay well over the odds . No reason to doubt multiple managers who have said this over the years tbh .

[Paulie Walnuts]

Wither folk were expecting much more from them or not isn't the issue it's what the Killie manager said about finishing top 6 and challenging for Europe as they had alot more to offer than other clubs in the league . .

Montgomery came in here and claimed we had a really good squad yet I keep reading your posts telling us he’s got a mess of a squad.

If what other people think doesn’t matter for McInnes and it’s what he says that matters, then the same applies to Montgomery and you’ll be accepting he’s guided a really good squad to the bottom half I presume?

[Donegal Hibby]

Montgomery came in here and claimed we had a really good squad yet I keep reading your posts telling us he’s got a mess of a squad.

If what other people think doesn’t matter for McInnes and it’s what he says that matters, then the same applies to Montgomery and you’ll be accepting he’s guided a really good squad to the bottom half I presume?

He wasn't going to just come out after being appointed and say the squad was s**** though was he ? , most managers wouldn't do that if any at all .

I don't think the squads is very good no and you only have to look back over the last 3 seasons to see that . Also if you look back to the period before January and look what we had on the bench that is also a giveaway too.

Our manager has since came out said the squads bloated which is having an effect on what we can do but there has to be changes , Ange Postecoglou has recently came out and said this too and been criticised for it even though he's probably right in there's players there that don't fit in with his plans.

Only way things change is if we give someone time wither that be Monty , McInnes or anyone else . Repeatedly sacking managers isn't getting us anywhere especially when theres other issues at the club.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He wasn't going to just come out after being appointed and say the squad was s**** though was he ? , most managers wouldn't do that if any at all .

I don't think the squads is very good no and you only have to look back over the last 3 seasons to see that . Also if you look back to the period before January and look what we had on the bench that is also a giveaway too.

Our manager has since came out said the squads bloated which is having an effect on what we can do but there has to be changes , Ange Postecoglou has recently came out and said this too and been criticised for it even though he's probably right in there's players there that don't fit in with his plans.

Only way things change is if we give someone time wither that be Monty , McInnes or anyone else . Repeatedly sacking managers isn't getting us anywhere especially when theres other issues at the club.

And as easty pointed out, McInnes isn’t going to come out and say I just want to avoid relegation. According to you though, that doesn’t matter. He said it, so you’re running with it and it doesn’t matter what anyone else despite the fact everyone in football knew consolidating their place in the top league was a good season, as evidenced by the fact that was the Kilmarnock boards target.

Only way things change is if we get a good manager in. That’s when things change. Not simply because someone’s been given time. A good manager will earn time. A ***** manager won’t. Montgomery falls into the latter category.

[Donegal Hibby]

And as easty pointed out, McInnes isn’t going to come out and say I just want to avoid relegation. According to you though, that doesn’t matter. He said it, so you’re running with it and it doesn’t matter what anyone else despite the fact everyone in football knew consolidating their place in the top league was a good season, as evidenced by the fact that was the Kilmarnock boards target.

Only way things change is if we get a good manager in. That’s when things change. Not simply because someone’s been given time. A good manager will earn time. A ***** manager won’t. Montgomery falls into the latter category.

That's not actually correct though as in McInnes could have came out and said it won't be easy first season back and if we finish 8th or 9th it would be a good season , he came out after promotion and said they didn't want to be involved in another relegation battle and not only did he say that he also stated that his club had more than others in the league which is true and they should be going for top 6 and fighting for Europe .

Whatever you want to say they were in a relegation battle right up until near the end of the season. Again it was only the following summer when they improved.

Disagree totally , things will only change when you give a manager time to sort things out like McInnes got , my mates an Arsenal fan and he offered to drive Arteta to ER early in his reign when we were looking for a manager because he thought he was s****, Man U fans protested wanting fergie out , Are these S**** managers because they start badly too ? .

[easty]

That's not actually correct though as in McInnes could have came out and said it won't be easy first season back and if we finish 8th or 9th it would be a good season , he came out after promotion and said they didn't want to be involved in another relegation battle and not only did he say that he also stated that his club had more than others in the league which is true and they should be going for top 6 and fighting for Europe .

Whatever you want to say they were in a relegation battle right up until near the end of the season. Again it was only the following summer when they improved.

Disagree totally , things will only change when you give a manager time to sort things out like McInnes got , my mates an Arsenal fan and he offered to drive Arteta to ER early in his reign when we were looking for a manager because he thought he was s****, Man U fans protested wanting fergie out , Are these S**** managers because they start badly too ? .

Alex Ferguson won the Scottish Prem 3 times, the Scottish Cup 4 times and European Cup Winners Cup before he went to Man Utd. Monty had managed 60 games of football in the Australian league.

[blackpoolhibs]

I cant believe we are having a debate on what managers says to the press, they all lie, they all tell whoevers listening lies, all the bloody time. :faf:

I would check the calendar if Monty or McInnes told me it was tuesday.

[Donegal Hibby]

Alex Ferguson won the Scottish Prem 3 times, the Scottish Cup 4 times and European Cup Winners Cup before he went to Man Utd. Monty had managed 60 games of football in the Australian league.

I don't think it would have mattered to the Utd fans who wanted him out what he had won in Scotland. Simple facts of it are he took over a struggling squad and needed time to change things .

Most managers do need time especially if the club has been struggling . Sometimes things take time and there's no quick solution to the problems that they have .

Just my opinion of course anyhow we will just have to wait to see what direction our clubs going to take on this .

https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgia/how-alex-ferguson-saved-himself-from-the-brink-of-the-sack-at-man-utd

[Paulie Walnuts]

That's not actually correct though as in McInnes could have came out and said it won't be easy first season back and if we finish 8th or 9th it would be a good season , he came out after promotion and said they didn't want to be involved in another relegation battle and not only did he say that he also stated that his club had more than others in the league which is true and they should be going for top 6 and fighting for Europe .

Whatever you want to say they were in a relegation battle right up until near the end of the season. Again it was only the following summer when they improved.

Disagree totally , things will only change when you give a manager time to sort things out like McInnes got , my mates an Arsenal fan and he offered to drive Arteta to ER early in his reign when we were looking for a manager because he thought he was s****, Man U fans protested wanting fergie out , Are these S**** managers because they start badly too ? .

No, it is actually correct. I posted numerous links to you the other day, which you responded to, where McInnes acknowledged that staying up would be a success and that staying up was the target of the board. You’ve just chosen to completely ignore those articles and the opinions of numerous other people in the game, including the Kilmarnock board, because they’re at odds with your bizarre crusade to convince people McInnes was a failure at Kilmarnock before this season.

Surely if McInnes could have come out and said something different then Montgomery could have done the same? He could have said the squad isn’t where he wants it and he’s looking forward to building a squad in the shape of how he sees us playing? Or again, does this just apply to McInnes?

Your attempts to compare a guy who serially meets or exceeds targets to a guy that has been a catastrophic failure are really just a bit silly.

As for the idea that being given time is more important to doing well than actually being a good manager.. bizarre.

[flash]

No, it is actually correct. I posted numerous links to you the other day, which you responded to, where McInnes acknowledged that staying up would be a success and that staying up was the target of the board. You’ve just chosen to completely ignore those articles because they’re at odds with your bizarre crusade to convince people McInnes was a failure at Kilmarnock before this season.

Surely if McInnes could have come out and said something different then Montgomery could have done the same? He could have said the squad isn’t where he wants it and he’s looking forward to building a squad in the shape of how he sees us playing? Or again, does this just apply to McInnes?

As for the idea that being given time is more important to doing well than actually being a good manager.. bizarre.

Think you and Donegal have reached the "get a room" moment.

[snedzuk]

I cant believe we are having a debate on what managers says to the press, they all lie, they all tell whoevers listening lies, all the bloody time. :faf:

I would check the calendar if Monty or McInnes told me it was tuesday.

But Monty would say 'err um its Tuesday, yeah' whereas McInnes would say 'Its effin Tuesday, right' - even if it was Wednesday.

[Exuberance1875]

Another mistake imo letting Hanlon and Stevenson go, no left with no players who really get what it means to play for Hibs. Several players of much worse quality remain at the club and have been given stupidly long contracts.

When the jury is still out on almost every player at the club and the staff, it could have been wise to keep the two consistent performers around. They’ve both barely played this season and look where we have ended up. Hanlon streets ahead of Rocky and Stevenson better than Obita imo.

Edit: Martin Boyle the only one left now.

[Allant1981]

Another mistake imo letting Hanlon and Stevenson go, no left with no players who really get what it means to play for Hibs. Several players of much worse quality remain at the club and have been given stupidly long contracts.

When the jury is still out on almost every player at the club and the staff, it could have been wise to keep the two consistent performers around. They’ve both barely played this season and look where we have ended up. Hanlon streets ahead of Rocky and Stevenson better than Obita imo.

Edit: Martin Boyle the only one left now.

As much as they are club legends it is 100% the right time for both to leave. Stevenson is not better than obita now and I'm a massive LS fan, age has finally caught up with him

[blackpoolhibs]

As much as they are club legends it is 100% the right time for both to leave. Stevenson is not better than obita now and I'm a massive LS fan, age has finally caught up with him

I agree that the time is right,:boo hoo: i'm not convinced Obita is much better than Stevenson, and Rocky just is not improving and is no better than Hanlon.

Unless the club are bringing in better than what's leaving AND what we currently have, we will continue to struggle.

Fish is alright and will probably improve, but will go back to Man U, and Miller is a bombscare, young but another who does not seem to be improving.

Cadden is not a right back for me, so in my opinion we need a new back 4, add in a keeper too, and the midfield cant keep underperforming too.

Dont get me started on Newell.:wink:

[EGL2000]

In the few occassions Wollacot has played he has proven that he is absolutely hopeless. Whoever was involved in signing him should be sacked.

Tbf I actually thought he looked a good signing on paper. It wasn't like he was playing at a significanty lower level and was a punt. Full international for a decent side aswell. Then by all accounts had a good season with Charlton. Just really hasn't worked out for either party sadly.