Down the slope review of squad.

[Albert Kidd 86’]

Great podcast from the guys at down the slope, have a watch here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HVCbnT0hr8

here is the result, all players who had at least one go in the first team this season, each one voted on then assigned

move on / loan / bench / start.

tried to post a pic of final result but as a promising youngster I cannot do this, could someone else do so?

basically :

19 move on
9 out to loan
6 bench
7 starters

enough material there for a fairly long thread!

many thanks again to the dts podcast and Liam in particular for putting the spreadsheet together.

[Brightside]

27840


Hopefully someone can resize it...

[EGL2000]

Agree with most of them surprisingly no one wanting to sell Levitt. He'd be one of the first out for me.

[Donegal Hibby]

Agree with most of them surprisingly no one wanting to sell Levitt. He'd be one of the first out for me.

Levitt has been a very disappointing signing in truth . Just don't see what he offers us or were he's best suited to play , would be one I'd be trying to move on too .

Fish I'm not sure about.

Triantis if he wasn't going to cost too much I'd take back or on another year loan .

Boyle i'd keep , think he still has plenty to offer .

The rest I agree with .

[Albert Kidd 86’]

Agree with most of them surprisingly no one wanting to sell Levitt. He'd be one of the first out for me.
Thats what makes football so great, and I do respect your opinion, however I would keep Levitt, I can see a talented player who passes the ball quickly, just needs to be played higher up the park imho. Passes into the box or shots are his forte I reckon.

[silverhibee]

27840


Hopefully someone can resize it...

That’s just a blur to me, and I nave my glasses on. :greengrin

[Albert Kidd 86’]

What stands out is that between move on or loan out, there are 28 players, enough for 2 full teams with subs.

the definition of a flabby squad!

[Heisenberg]

Don’t think I’d disagree with any of the decisions that were arrived at on the podcast apart from Levitt, would definitely move him on. Very expensive squad player, can’t see him becoming a regular under Monty going forward.

[Brightside]

That’s just a blur to me, and I nave my glasses on. :greengrin

Im sure there used to be a way to resize images but I cant see the option. Hopefully one of the admins can fix it. :greengrin

[Centre Hawf]

Levitt has been a very disappointing signing in truth . Just don't see what he offers us or were he's best suited to play , would be one I'd be trying to move on too .

Fish I'm not sure about.

Triantis if he wasn't going to cost too much I'd take back or on another year loan .

Boyle i'd keep , think he still has plenty to offer .

The rest I agree with .

Have to agree with you DH, I think Levitt has been one of our most disappointing signings for quite a while. A player I was really excited to see us sign and agreed with the clubs pursuit of him entirely. I'd probably be happy to see him move on as well. The only saving grace for him is perhaps Marcondes leaving might open up that number 10 role for him to play in as I think that would be where his best chances of performing for us would be, but even then I'm not holding out enough hope to turn down any offers.

Fish is an odd one, if he was a Hibs academy graduate you'd be delighted with him and how he's progressed the last 18 months. But ask us to pay good money for him the conversation changes very quickly. I would probably like to sign the laddie if we were talking a couple hundred grand and a hefty sell on fee as I think he has potential. But I wouldn't be happy to see the club shell out Elie Youan levels of money for him.

[The Modfather]

Have to agree with you DH, I think Levitt has been one of our most disappointing signings for quite a while. A player I was really excited to see us sign and agreed with the clubs pursuit of him entirely. I'd probably be happy to see him move on as well. The only saving grace for him is perhaps Marcondes leaving might open up that number 10 role for him to play in as I think that would be where his best chances of performing for us would be, but even then I'm not holding out enough hope to turn down any offers.

Fish is an odd one, if he was a Hibs academy graduate you'd be delighted with him and how he's progressed the last 18 months. But ask us to pay good money for him the conversation changes very quickly. I would probably like to sign the laddie if we were talking a couple hundred grand and a hefty sell on fee as I think he has potential. But I wouldn't be happy to see the club shell out Elie Youan levels of money for him.

Levitt had alarm bells for me from the off. Sure I said at the time if he’s not coming in to play the position Emiliano does then he won’t make any difference to our midfield. I didn’t see him actually achieving the feat of making it considerably worse though.

A player coming off the back of a woeful season, debates about his best position and where he was played, questions about his athleticism etc. if he was a free transfer and a bit of a punt who might come good, fair enough. However all the question marks I described above were the last thing our already poor midfield needed. Never mind paying a big fee and him being one of our marquee summer signings.

[RIP]

When was the last season that the quality of our squad improved significantly after a squad churn?

When was the last season we trusted the recruitment team to come up with a well thought out squad-building strategy?

We have now had ten years of Head Coaches handing a list of positions they wanted to fill only to be handed a tiny list of players willing to sign for a club with a poor track record of retention?

When are we going to extract our heads from our bumholes and start recruiting home grown coaches and players.

Did any of the Top Six need a Strategic Review to finish above us?

We are being fed corporate bull**** by a board with no football nous. I wouldn't trust them to sign a cleaner, let alone a new squad.

[JohnM1875]

When was the last season that the quality of our squad improved significantly after a squad churn?

When was the last season we trusted the recruitment team to come up with a well thought out squad-building strategy?

We have now had ten years of Head Coaches handing a list of positions they wanted to fill only to be handed a tiny list of players willing to sign for a club with a poor track record of retention?

When are we going to extract our heads from our bumholes and start recruiting home grown coaches and players.

Did any of the Top Six need a Strategic Review to finish above us?

We are being fed corporate bull**** by a board with no football nous. I wouldn't trust them to sign a cleaner, let alone a new squad.

Don't completely disagree, but when was the last time billionaires bought a 25% share in the club? Not a chance in hell they'll let the continued slide on the footballing side of things carry on.

[Forza Fred]

Great podcast from the guys at down the slope, have a watch here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HVCbnT0hr8

here is the result, all players who had at least one go in the first team this season, each one voted on then assigned

move on / loan / bench / start.

tried to post a pic of final result but as a promising youngster I cannot do this, could someone else do so?

basically :

19 move on
9 out to loan
6 bench
7 starters

enough material there for a fairly long thread!

many thanks again to the dts podcast and Liam in particular for putting the spreadsheet together.

Only obvious comment is that, assuming we have a 25 man squad, the ‘starters’ figure of 7 means we would need to recruit 18 new players.

Just how we could afford to do that plus pay out the contracts of some of them in the ‘move on’ column, is erm…….problematic is it not?

[Bertie Wooster]

Only obvious comment is that, assuming we have a 25 man squad, the ‘starters’ figure of 7 means we would need to recruit 18 new players.

Just how we could afford to do that plus pay out the contracts of some of them in the ‘move on’ column, is erm…….problematic is it not?

Think at this stage , being yet another transition season , we would be looking at 12 new players as we would have 7 starters and 6 squad.
Ideally you would have 25 starters , but we couldn't afford such a large overhaul.

A number of the players DTS allocated as loan will be bench or starters the season after next and thereon, so you are looking at a handful of loan players or short term contracts until those developing players are ready to join the squad permanently.

Probably looking at half a dozen starters being signed on permanent contracts for next year , which will now be harder being a bottom 6 club.

So appreciated the DTS assessment , and looking at at a squad of 25 being 7 starters , 6 on the bench , IMO 6 new players coming in on loan , 6 new permanent contracts and a lot of players going out on loan or leaving the club.

That is a heck of a lot of movement , McDermott will be very busy.

[McGruber]

Levitt has been a very disappointing signing in truth . Just don't see what he offers us or were he's best suited to play , would be one I'd be trying to move on too .

Fish I'm not sure about.

Triantis if he wasn't going to cost too much I'd take back or on another year loan .

Boyle i'd keep , think he still has plenty to offer .

The rest I agree with .

Agree with keeping Boyle. No doubt he's been poor of late and not looking like his old self but taking account the injury this season, the head knock and heavy schedule of games he's had then there are mitigating circumstances. A proper rest and good pre season may well have him firing again and he has more than enough credit in the bank to be given a shot.

Wanting to ditch Boyle and keep Amos, find that staggering.

[GreenCastle]

Think at this stage , being yet another transition season , we would be looking at 12 new players as we would have 7 starters and 6 squad.
Ideally you would have 25 starters , but we couldn't afford such a large overhaul.

A number of the players DTS allocated as loan will be bench or starters the season after next and thereon, so you are looking at a handful of loan players or short term contracts until those developing players are ready to join the squad permanently.

Probably looking at half a dozen starters being signed on permanent contracts for next year , which will now be harder being a bottom 6 club.

So appreciated the DTS assessment , and looking at at a squad of 25 being 7 starters , 6 on the bench , IMO 6 new players coming in on loan , 6 new permanent contracts and a lot of players going out on loan or leaving the club.

That is a heck of a lot of movement , McDermott will be very busy.

“So appreciated the DTS assessment , and looking at at a squad of 25 being 7 starters , 6 on the bench , IMO 6 new players coming in on loan , 6 new permanent contracts and a lot of players going out on loan or leaving the club.”

That’s the part I find interesting - we all know we need to improve and change the squad but actually how many NEW players will come in and be…permanent or loans.

Levitt needs to step it up or be moved on. Otherwise he will be another who came for decent money and didn’t give much back.

[Brightside]

Agree with keeping Boyle. No doubt he's been poor of late and not looking like his old self but taking account the injury this season, the head knock and heavy schedule of games he's had then there are mitigating circumstances. A proper rest and good pre season may well have him firing again and he has more than enough credit in the bank to be given a shot.

Wanting to ditch Boyle and keep Amos, find that staggering.

Just and age versus wage thing tbh.

[Centre Hawf]

Only obvious comment is that, assuming we have a 25 man squad, the ‘starters’ figure of 7 means we would need to recruit 18 new players.

Just how we could afford to do that plus pay out the contracts of some of them in the ‘move on’ column, is erm…….problematic is it not?

I agree. I think this is why perhaps some people going into this window will need to be a bit more realistic about who they think is '*****' and needs emptied. Boyle for example is no where near that. The focus needs to be on moving out the basement level bottom of the squad. Guys who are absolutely under no circumstances justifying their wages.

Jair.
Wollacott (mostly because he's second choice)
JDH (harsh because he's injured but even if fit still applies)
McKirdy.
Kenneh.
Henderson.

They're a handful of the names that are still under contract that will be on first XI wages that are not anywhere near justifying it. Then you can go into your younger lads out on loan such as Tait, Mackay, Delferriere, Harbottle, maybe Boruc. These guys won't be on milk tokens either.

There's already so many to move on before we even scratch the surface of debating if Joe Newell is the right man for midfield, or if Lewis Miller can improve, or if Boyle is the same player he was 2/3 years ago.

[Brightside]

I agree. I think this is why perhaps some people going into this window will need to be a bit more realistic about who they think is '*****' and needs emptied. Boyle for example is no where near that. The focus needs to be on moving out the basement level bottom of the squad. Guys who are absolutely under no circumstances justifying their wages.

Jair.
Wollacott (mostly because he's second choice)
JDH (harsh because he's injured but even if fit still applies)
McKirdy.
Kenneh.
Henderson.

They're a handful of the names that are still under contract that will be on first XI wages that are not anywhere near justifying it. Then you can go into your younger lads out on loan such as Tait, Mackay, Delferriere, Harbottle, maybe Boruc. These guys won't be on milk tokens either.

There's already so many to move on before we even scratch the surface of debating if Joe Newell is the right man for midfield, or if Lewis Miller can improve, or if Boyle is the same player he was 2/3 years ago.
I think all of that will happen tbh. And that includes getting as far as does it make sense to move Boyle on to free wages, does it make sense to sell Youan at a time when we may get £2m etc. Lots of potential changes. I imagine a lot will depend on how many of those dev / loan players can be moved on.

[Donegal Hibby]

Agree with keeping Boyle. No doubt he's been poor of late and not looking like his old self but taking account the injury this season, the head knock and heavy schedule of games he's had then there are mitigating circumstances. A proper rest and good pre season may well have him firing again and he has more than enough credit in the bank to be given a shot.

Wanting to ditch Boyle and keep Amos, find that staggering.

Agree , think much the same about Boyle too in a proper rest and good pre season could well have him back tormenting defences again . We have a big enough clear out to do without adding someone of Martin Boyles quality to it either .

[B.H.F.C]

Levitt had alarm bells for me from the off. Sure I said at the time if he’s not coming in to play the position Emiliano does then he won’t make any difference to our midfield. I didn’t see him actually achieving the feat of making it considerably worse though.

A player coming off the back of a woeful season, debates about his best position and where he was played, questions about his athleticism etc. if he was a free transfer and a bit of a punt who might come good, fair enough. However all the question marks I described above were the last thing our already poor midfield needed. Never mind paying a big fee and him being one of our marquee summer signings.

Levitt, for me, epitomises the problems in our squad. There is ability there but not all the other things you need to make you a good player/team.

[Brummie_Hibs]

Levitt has been a very disappointing signing

Fish I'm not sure about.

Triantis if he wasn't going to cost too much I'd take back or on another year loan .

Boyle i'd keep
Levitt has had a disappointing first season, but I think he'll bed-in and improve next season. Keep

Fish flatters to deceive, and not confident about him. But will we get anybody better at a cheap price. Not sure. Bench

Triantes, not as a defender, but as a holding midfielder I'd Keep

Boyle, tough one. If we keep Youan then I'd keep Boyle - on current form the two can chop and change accordingly, and they could probably etch out a decent season for Hibs.

However, if Youan leaves then I don't think it would be worth keeping Boyle. With him and Youan both away, it might force us to adapt a different (better?) style of play next season.

[J-C]

Levitt, for me, epitomises the problems in our squad. There is ability there but not all the other things you need to make you a good player/team.

He did last season what he's done this season, Dundee U weren't a bad squad in truth but were badly managed and a squad not playing to their capabilities, Levitt never once took the game by the scruff of the neck and drive them on, fast forward a season and the same thing happening here. I'm all for taking players from other Scottish teams but only if they'll improve us and TBH there isn't many that will do that.

[Centre Hawf]

I think all of that will happen tbh. And that includes getting as far as does it make sense to move Boyle on to free wages, does it make sense to sell Youan at a time when we may get £2m etc. Lots of potential changes. I imagine a lot will depend on how many of those dev / loan players can be moved on.

The realistic scenario of it is that Boyle's wages likely won't be freed because of how high they are. If he's on more than the 6/7/8k that people have speculated in the past then it's hard to envisage who else gives him that without us paying up a chunk of it up front or over the course of the rest of his contract, at that point you'd be as well holding onto him for the final year of his deal and seeing if he bounces back next season for the amount of time we've spent rehabbing him anyway.

It's a lot easier to rid yourself of guys who have been playing frequently and also have competitive wage demands versus out of form and high waged players. It's why guys I listed like JDH, McKirdy, Jair will all be the biggest priorities and that's where we may end up incurring some costs to get shot of them as there's likely just no way we can ask a bottom end League 2 team to pay McKirdy's entire wage or some Portuguese 2nd division side for Jair.

If we're going to incur costs for guys to leave it likely needs to be for the biggest deadweights the club has and not guys who have just been 6/10s this season.

[Alex Trager]

I agree. I think this is why perhaps some people going into this window will need to be a bit more realistic about who they think is '*****' and needs emptied. Boyle for example is no where near that. The focus needs to be on moving out the basement level bottom of the squad. Guys who are absolutely under no circumstances justifying their wages.

Jair.
Wollacott (mostly because he's second choice)
JDH (harsh because he's injured but even if fit still applies)
McKirdy.
Kenneh.
Henderson.

They're a handful of the names that are still under contract that will be on first XI wages that are not anywhere near justifying it. Then you can go into your younger lads out on loan such as Tait, Mackay, Delferriere, Harbottle, maybe Boruc. These guys won't be on milk tokens either.

There's already so many to move on before we even scratch the surface of debating if Joe Newell is the right man for midfield, or if Lewis Miller can improve, or if Boyle is the same player he was 2/3 years ago.

Good summation this.

A sensible approach. A realistic one as well.

Then, use the wages to put as many of our current starters as possible onto the bench. The team is clearly an ‘alright’ SPFL team. We are an average side with an average league placing.

That suggests that we could probably rely on these average guys now and then.

Replace them with better and we will get better. It doesn’t need to be a d can’t be as dramatic as I would like. But it can be done sensibly.

Get rid of those who bring nothing. Use the wages to bring in 3/4/5 quality players.

In theory, that is the ideal approach. Perhaps reducing it to 2/3 players each year.

Repeating myself here but we have not bad players. Put them on the bench having replaced them with better and we will be up the league.

[expresso]

Hopefully any new signings will be assessed for strength of character first.
We always seem to sign players without heart or steel

[WhileTheChief..]

I agree. I think this is why perhaps some people going into this window will need to be a bit more realistic about who they think is '*****' and needs emptied. Boyle for example is no where near that. The focus needs to be on moving out the basement level bottom of the squad. Guys who are absolutely under no circumstances justifying their wages.

Jair.
Wollacott (mostly because he's second choice)
JDH (harsh because he's injured but even if fit still applies)
McKirdy.
Kenneh.
Henderson.

They're a handful of the names that are still under contract that will be on first XI wages that are not anywhere near justifying it. Then you can go into your younger lads out on loan such as Tait, Mackay, Delferriere, Harbottle, maybe Boruc. These guys won't be on milk tokens either.

There's already so many to move on before we even scratch the surface of debating if Joe Newell is the right man for midfield, or if Lewis Miller can improve, or if Boyle is the same player he was 2/3 years ago.

I'm definitely one of the ones who thinks we need to move on most of the squad.

Whilst replacing 18 players is unlikely, if we only replace the ones you've listed we'll be in for another crappy 'transitional' season.

[Centre Hawf]

I'm definitely one of the ones who thinks we need to move on most of the squad.

Whilst replacing 18 players is unlikely, if we only replace the ones you've listed we'll be in for another crappy 'transitional' season.

I don't hugely disagree with the point you make and I think we will probably see a couple guys that have played minutes this season leave as well. There's a few out of contract that I imagine will not be sticking around such as -

Marshall (at least as number 1)
Hanlon
Lewy
ALF (potentially)
As well as the loans of Fish, Maolida, Mayenda, Triantis, Marcondes

That's potentially nine names likely to be away from the squad that have all contributed and are still are to the season whether thats from starting or acting as cover on the bench (less so Mayenda admittedly). They'll need replaced or maybe in the case of a few actually signed up beyond their loan.

Even if we waved goodbye to all 9 of them as well as say Jair, JDH, and Levitt we're going to be down 12 players on our current squad not counting those out on loan. I think its going to be a huge ask to even replace these guys correctly without actually weakening ourselves by doing too much in one window, that's before we even start trying to look at getting rid of guys like Boyle, Cadden, Newell, Rocky, Wollacott.

I think this current window coming highlights just how piss poor recruitment has now been for a long long time and the damage it has caused us we're not going to be able to fix in one window, perhaps not even in one year of windows I'm afraid.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't hugely disagree with the point you make and I think we will probably see a couple guys that have played minutes this season leave as well. There's a few out of contract that I imagine will not be sticking around such as -

Marshall (at least as number 1)
Hanlon
Lewy
ALF (potentially)
As well as the loans of Fish, Maolida, Mayenda, Triantis, Marcondes

That's potentially nine names likely to be away from the squad that have all contributed and are still are to the season whether thats from starting or acting as cover on the bench (less so Mayenda admittedly). They'll need replaced or maybe in the case of a few actually signed up beyond their loan.

Even if we waved goodbye to all 9 of them as well as say Jair, JDH, and Levitt we're going to be down 12 players on our current squad not counting those out on loan. I think its going to be a huge ask to even replace these guys correctly without actually weakening ourselves by doing too much in one window, that's before we even start trying to look at getting rid of guys like Boyle, Cadden, Newell, Rocky, Wollacott.

I think this current window coming highlights just how piss poor recruitment has now been for a long long time and the damage it has caused us we're not going to be able to fix in one window, perhaps not even in one year of windows I'm afraid.

If we can move on all the players you mention and bring in 3 or 4 quality players that can hit the ground running, it would be a good start.

I don't want us signing anyone for potential or because they might make us money somewhere down the line. I want players that know how to play from day 1 and don't need months to settle. And please, no more signing players that are injured.

That would give us a fighting chance of having a decent start to the season and we could build on it in January. I don't mind things taking a year or two if we're playing better, winning more and seeing signs of real, tangible, progress.