Nottingham Forest Statement

[Donegal Hibby]

Have Nottingham Forest gone too far with their statement ? , Or is it just a case of enough is enough after they've claimed that it's happening to them week after week. Surely they'll have evidence to back up their claims that Atwell is in fact a Luton fan .

I see they've now released another statement formally requesting the VAR Audio to be released publicly. Interesting to see how this pans out .

I think the English FA will probably hammer them for it though when you think how much it could cost them you can understand their anger at the dreadful decisions they've been getting.

Which I suppose is much like our own situation this season too .

Why has things seemingly got worse since the introduction of VAR when it was supposed to help and improve the game ? .

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/nottingham-forest-everton-stuart-attwell-9240089

https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2024/04/22/alan-shearer-and-micah-richards-deliver-verdicts-on-statement-released-by-nottingham-forest/

[MWHIBBIES]

Think it has to happen. Far too many apologies. Arsenal Vs Brentford incident last season. Liverpool Vs Spurs one this season. The refs freelancing in the middle east is very dodgy. It's been a terrible couple of years for refs in England.

[Centre Hawf]

Goes back to the conversations we've had on this forum about our own gripes with decisions. VAR has only highlighted the ineptitude of a lot of officials.

But VAR itself is part of the problem, before VAR we'd all have a moan at decisions and perhaps move on depending on the severity of it (Griffiths ghost goal took a while to get over for example). Now though we expect a flawless perfect game from our own perspective on the rules, and I'm not sure we're ever going to get that. Even when sitting around a table at a pub not everyone even agrees on decisions.

I don't see how it gets better other than ditching VAR but it doesn't really solve the ineptitude problem.

[Dashing Bob S]

Think it has to happen. Far too many apologies. Arsenal Vs Brentford incident last season. Liverpool Vs Spurs one this season. The refs freelancing in the middle east is very dodgy. It's been a terrible couple of years for refs in England.

And a horrific century for ones in Scotland

[Donegal Hibby]

I thought Forrest had 3 very good cases for penalties though Dermot Gallagher doing his best not to go against a fellow official.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13120771/ref-watch-nottingham-forest-penalty-and-post-match-statement-controversy-analysed-by-dermot-gallagher#:~:text=After%20the%20defeat%20to%20Ever ton,they%20didn't%20change%20him.

[Sylar]

I think the fact that they've pointed out the VAR official was '...a Luton Town fan...' crosses a threshold. I'm all for calling out incompetence where it raises its head, but that is suggesting a self-preserving agenda that infers full-blown corruption. Without actual evidence, that's at the very least 'bringing the game into disrepute' for me.

[PHeffernan]

Have Nottingham Forest gone too far with their statement ? , Or is it just a case of enough is enough after they've claimed that it's happening to them week after week. Surely they'll have evidence to back up their claims that Atwell is in fact a Luton fan .

I see they've now released another statement formally requesting the VAR Audio to be released publicly. Interesting to see how this pans out .

I think the English FA will probably hammer them for it though when you think how much it could cost them you can understand their anger at the dreadful decisions they've been getting.

Which I suppose is much like our own situation this season too .

Why has things seemingly got worse since the introduction of VAR when it was supposed to help and improve the game ? .

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/nottingham-forest-everton-stuart-attwell-9240089

https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2024/04/22/alan-shearer-and-micah-richards-deliver-verdicts-on-statement-released-by-nottingham-forest/

Always cheated, never defeated is something that shouldn't be heard from clubs. Nae class.

I see someone replied below the first article

''Do not forget that Forest are only in the PL because of 2 very dodgy penalty decisions v Huddersfield in the play off final. Off course the previous manager's father is a top referees' official which no doubt helped. Perhaps dubious owners in glasshouses should not throw stones for all sorts of reasons''

The EPL is a corrupt and dysfunctional money and power sick mess now with endless statements from rich clubs and their high paid lawyers are never far away just in case someone tries to control their manipulations of right and wrong.

[Trinity Hibee]

I think the fact that they've pointed out the VAR official was '...a Luton Town fan...' crosses a threshold. I'm all for calling out incompetence where it raises its head, but that is suggesting a self-preserving agenda that infers full-blown corruption. Without actual evidence, that's at the very least 'bringing the game into disrepute' for me.

Agree, clubs mud slinging like that isn’t really good enough unless you have concrete evidence. Clubs would be up in arms in the league were making statements about them without any proof

[Lago]

3 penalty claims of which only 1 was a definite, 1 a maybe aye, maybe naw and 1 a definite no.

[MWHIBBIES]

Always cheated, never defeated is something that shouldn't be heard from clubs. Nae class.

I see someone replied below the first article

''Do not forget that Forest are only in the PL because of 2 very dodgy penalty decisions v Huddersfield in the play off final. Off course the previous manager's father is a top referees' official which no doubt helped. Perhaps dubious owners in glasshouses should not throw stones for all sorts of reasons''

The EPL is a corrupt and dysfunctional money and power sick mess now with endless statements from rich clubs and their high paid lawyers are never far away just in case someone tries to control their manipulations of right and wrong.

This is the problem. All this mudslinging. Ah but this decision and that decision. Reality is, the refs are not fit for purpose across the board. There is awful game changing/ season altering errors happening every week despite a dozen angles and replays. Its embarrassing.

[PHeffernan]

I thought Forrest had 3 very good cases for penalties though Dermot Gallagher doing his best not to go against a fellow official.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13120771/ref-watch-nottingham-forest-penalty-and-post-match-statement-controversy-analysed-by-dermot-gallagher#:~:text=After%20the%20defeat%20to%20Ever ton,they%20didn't%20change%20him.

I agree with Gallagher. As he says the referee should have been called across by VAR to look at the 3rd incident which would have resulted in a penalty.
The interesting bit is when they are looking at the second incident, the handball, and he says in Scotland all such incidents are given as penalties but not in England.
I would prefer if we adopted the English threshold for handball penalties. There are far to many given.

[Carheenlea]

I could argue against every penalty ever awarded against Hibs and could argue a case for awarding Hibs penalties for the softest of claims.

If I was a referee I couldn’t be trusted to officiate a game involving Hibs, and by the same token, I couldn’t be trusted to officiate a game involving Hearts.

[Just Alf]

I could argue against every penalty ever awarded to Hibs and could argue a case for awarding Hibs penalties for the softest of claims.

If I was a referee I couldn’t be trusted to officiate a game involving Hibs, and by the same token, I couldn’t be trusted to officiate a game involving Hearts.:agree: so many 'interesting' conversations in the pub based on that :greengrin:

[Winston Ingram]

Ridiculous statement. The media chat should’ve been all about how they were absolutely sawn off on 3 penalty decisions. It’s now about them being ********s.

[Donegal Hibby]

I agree with Gallagher. As he says the referee should have been called across by VAR to look at the 3rd incident which would have resulted in a penalty.
The interesting bit is when they are looking at the second incident, the handball, and he says in Scotland all such incidents are given as penalties but not in England.
I would prefer if we adopted the English threshold for handball penalties. There are far to many given.

Can't say I did agree with Gallagher . I thought all 3 were penalties tbh .

I would be of the opinion that the handball would be given more times than not in England as going by the letter of the law his arm was in an unnatural position.

Handball rule hasn't helped the game and has only complicated things much like the offside rule too imo .

[Allant1981]

Didn't think the handball was a penalty, how is he supposed to get his hand out the way, the 1st was possibly a penalty and the other was a definite, thought the statement was OTT

[Baader]

They're on dangerous ground I would think. They have a point but to call out the integrity of the VAR official is pretty serious. He may be a Luton fan but they are saying that he can't do his job impartially which means he's corrupt. If Hudson Odoi missed an easy chance for them v Chelsea would they say his mistake was down to him being a Chelsea fan? Somehow doubt it.

Odd as I think the blatant bias and corruption in Scotland needs called out and addressed but not sure Forest are victims of anything more than bad officiating. Clattenberg being at the club makes it interesting - does he go along with them calling out his former professionals as corrupt? Or is he behind it?! Lawyers will be all over this.

[GreenCastle]

Do Scottish refs declare who they support ?

I’m all for the Scottish refs being investigated as they have been awful and some decisions shocking.

Also ALL audio should be available for any decisions.

[Eyrie]

Do Scottish refs declare who they support ?


It's the first question asked during the recruitment process so that they can ensure only Huns are selected.

[cabbageandribs1875]

A statement, released on Monday afternoon, read: “Nottingham Forest has today submitted a formal request to the PGMOL to release into the public domain the audio recordings between officials during yesterday’s match against Everton at Goodison Park.

“The club has requested this be shared for three key match incidents - Ashley Young’s challenge on Giovanni Reyna (24th minute), Ashley Young’s handball (44th minute) and Ashley Young’s challenge on Callum Hudson-Odoi (56th minute).


did he have a good game

[Smartie]

I think the fact that they've pointed out the VAR official was '...a Luton Town fan...' crosses a threshold. I'm all for calling out incompetence where it raises its head, but that is suggesting a self-preserving agenda that infers full-blown corruption. Without actual evidence, that's at the very least 'bringing the game into disrepute' for me.

My thoughts exactly.

We’ve all drafted that e-mail and been told by a partner not to hit “send” until we’ve had a chance to sleep on it.

That statement was put out when we’d still be a foaming, incensed rage having left Easter Road and not yet reached the comfort of the pub.

It was so poorly handled, the fact they might have actually have had a point gets lost a bit.

[GreenCastle]

Don’t forget Forest have ex ref Clattenburg as their ref analysts so w he will know some info of what goes on and who each ref supports etc.

So does anyone know if Scottish refs are transparent about who they support or it is just all hush hush…???

[Baader]

My thoughts exactly.

We’ve all drafted that e-mail and been told by a partner not to hit “send” until we’ve had a chance to sleep on it.

That statement was put out when we’d still be a foaming, incensed rage having left Easter Road and not yet reached the comfort of the pub.

It was so poorly handled, the fact they might have actually have had a point gets lost a bit.

Smacks exactly of that and just looks very unprofessional. Bit like the Huns "beggars belief."

[Radge70]

I think the fact that they've pointed out the VAR official was '...a Luton Town fan...' crosses a threshold. I'm all for calling out incompetence where it raises its head, but that is suggesting a self-preserving agenda that infers full-blown corruption. Without actual evidence, that's at the very least 'bringing the game into disrepute' for me.

Sometimes you need to do what's necessary to bring attention to the situation. I feel for them because if that was the old firm in Scotland then all three would have been given. Instead they were treated with the same contempt that non-old firm teams up here are. Ashley Young also has some cheek posting "cry me a river" on twitter and he should be mightily relieved after that performance.

[HoboHarry]

Don’t forget Forest have ex ref Clattenburg as their ref analysts so w he will know some info of what goes on and who each ref supports etc.

So does anyone know if Scottish refs are transparent about who they support or it is just all hush hush…???

No need for transparency in Scotland. They all support Sevco and have scarves and lodge numbers to prove it.

[ekhibee]

I suppose one of the questions should be, are English referees as corrupt as Scottish officials? In my opinion, no, they're just in competent.

[Callum_62]

Didn't think the handball was a penalty, how is he supposed to get his hand out the way, the 1st was possibly a penalty and the other was a definite, thought the statement was OTTI thought the handball and the 3rd one were clearly pens

His arm was about as wide as it could be and stopped the ball reaching Chris wood on the 6 yard box

One of them I expect to be immediately given

Defenders cannot and should not be going about imitating birds in the 18 yard box [emoji38]

Imagine that's the last minute in the derby and Kyle rowles does the same - I doubt anyone on here would take the "can see why it wasn't given" lind

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[Callum_62]

I suppose one of the questions should be, are English referees as corrupt as Scottish officials? In my opinion, no, they're just in competent.Well the one of var had a vested Interest apparently so you never know [emoji1]

Interesting if the FA put him at the city ground next week [emoji51][emoji23]

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[HibbyDave]

Nothing will change until we get the audio as it happens. There must be clear communication.

Rugby has had it for years!

[Allant1981]

I thought the handball and the 3rd one were clearly pens

His arm was about as wide as it could be and stopped the ball reaching Chris wood on the 6 yard box

One of them I expect to be immediately given

Defenders cannot and should not be going about imitating birds in the 18 yard box [emoji38]

Imagine that's the last minute in the derby and Kyle rowles does the same - I doubt anyone on here would take the "can see why it wasn't given" lind

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It's very difficult to keep arms in by your side when you are turning and running though, but they have been given plenty of times so probably should have been given

[MWHIBBIES]

I suppose one of the questions should be, are English referees as corrupt as Scottish officials? In my opinion, no, they're just in competent.

I mean, some of them are literally working on the side for owners of clubs in the league.

[Ralphy C]

I think the fact that they've pointed out the VAR official was '...a Luton Town fan...' crosses a threshold. I'm all for calling out incompetence where it raises its head, but that is suggesting a self-preserving agenda that infers full-blown corruption. Without actual evidence, that's at the very least 'bringing the game into disrepute' for me.They may not have worded it well but they pointed out before the match and before all this was in the spotlight that the VAR might have a shocker and they did,

[Donegal Hibby]

Might be rubbish though was told by someone yesterday that Atwell is a season ticket holder at Kenilworth Road which if true Forrest were well within their rights to bring this up before the game ( which they did ) .

Remember Man U not been too happy about this guy refereeing one of their games last year and they were right to do so as well .

https://www.sportbible.com/football/michael-oliver-referee-man-utd-newcastle-premier-league-057266-20230407

Fair play to any referee for being honest in saying who he supports though it then becomes a matter for whoever is assigning the referees to games to avoid a conflict of interest .

Been saying for quite some time both Walsh and Beaton shouldn't be allowed to referee Sevco games or games that might have any bearing for them .

Sadly though I don't think it's just two now that have a fondness for the Huns .

[MWHIBBIES]

Might be rubbish though was told by someone yesterday that Atwell is a season ticket holder at Kenilworth Road which if true Forrest were well within their rights to bring this up before the game ( which they did ) .

Remember Man U not been too happy about this guy refereeing one of their games last year and they were right to do so as well .

https://www.sportbible.com/football/michael-oliver-referee-man-utd-newcastle-premier-league-057266-20230407

Fair play to any referee for being honest in saying who he supports though it then becomes a matter for whoever is assigning the referees to games to avoid a conflict of interest .

Been saying for quite some time both Walsh and Beaton shouldn't be allowed to referee Sevco games or games that might have any bearing for them .

Sadly though I don't think it's just two now that have a fondness for the Huns .

It's mandatory in England to disclose who you support, and then officials are assigned accordingly. Liverpool fans never ref Everton games etc.

[nonshinyfinish]

It's mandatory in England to disclose who you support, and then officials are assigned accordingly. Liverpool fans never ref Everton games etc.

Is there a statistically unlikely number that support their local non-league team?

[heretoday]

It's mandatory in England to disclose who you support, and then officials are assigned accordingly. Liverpool fans never ref Everton games etc.

Many Toffees would dispute that!

[JimBHibees]

Nothing will change until we get the audio as it happens. There must be clear communication.

Rugby has had it for years!

Agree definitely needs to come in especially up here

[Hibeesforever]

Referees should be sponsored by a club. That way affiliation is up front and known.

[Hibernian Verse]

It's mandatory in England to disclose who you support, and then officials are assigned accordingly. Liverpool fans never ref Everton games etc.

Seems like a decent practice to have. Perhaps something we could adopt?

Oh wait.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i see ref of the moment Attwell has been chosen as one of the VAR refs at the Euro's

wonder who he will show favouritism towards :)

[Smartie]

Seems like a decent practice to have. Perhaps something we could adopt?

Oh wait.

But who would referee the Partick Thistle games?

[JimBHibees]

But who would referee the Partick Thistle games?

Or St Mirren

[Donegal Hibby]

i see ref of the moment Attwell has been chosen as one of the VAR refs at the Euro's

wonder who he will show favouritism towards :)

Luton got any players at the Euro's? 😆

[cubehindthegoal]

I think the fact that they've pointed out the VAR official was '...a Luton Town fan...' crosses a threshold. I'm all for calling out incompetence where it raises its head, but that is suggesting a self-preserving agenda that infers full-blown corruption. Without actual evidence, that's at the very least 'bringing the game into disrepute' for me.

But what if it’s true ? How do you call it out from outwith - or even whistleblow from within, if someone was brave enough - without simply saying what you see ? Is free honest speech truly dead ? Sad, if so.

[theonlywayisup]

IIRC, at the Hibs AGM, there was an ex-referee who asked questions about refereeing decisions and seemed to know the SFA Head of Referee Operations well. It would be good to get his views on referees in Scotland, if he posts on here, and their alleged bias.

[JimBHibees]

But what if it’s true ? How do you call it out from outwith - or even whistleblow from within, if someone was brave enough - without simply saying what you see ? Is free honest speech truly dead ? Sad, if so.

Assuming Clattenberg would likely know who he supported

[cabbageandribs1875]

Luton got any players at the Euro's? 😆

regular keeper Kaminski is in the Belgium squad, been getting quite high player ratings for his club recently

[PHeffernan]

Seems like a decent practice to have. Perhaps something we could adopt?

Oh wait.

Population, the number and size of clubs and the number of experienced Grade 1 officials are all things that make it far more difficult in Scotland to effect that practice.
So in a population of 60 million it's far easier for the super rich EPL and FA to have enough quality referees so they are not reffing a team they may have supported in the past.
In Scotland a nation of 5 million, 4 decent sized cities, 2 disproportionally giant clubs it's far more difficult.

[Donegal Hibby]

regular keeper Kaminski is in the Belgium squad, been getting quite high player ratings for his club recently

Didn't think they'd have one in fairness .👍

[ancient hibee]

It’s regularly posted on here that ex players should get involved in refereeing. Now it seems referees should say who they support and not be involved in games that affect that club even if they’re not playing in that game. It’ rubbish really.Clattenburg would rather suggest bias rather than admit that like a lot of referees he was incompetent. I look forward to Paul Hanlon smoothing our way to top of the league.

[Donegal Hibby]

It’s regularly posted on here that ex players should get involved in refereeing. Now it seems referees should say who they support and not be involved in games that affect that club even if they’re not playing in that game. It’ rubbish really.Clattenburg would rather suggest bias rather than admit that like a lot of referees he was incompetent. I look forward to Paul Hanlon smoothing our way to top of the league.

Watched this on sky sports about an ex player becoming a referee , played with us too though can't really remember the guy .He's from Edinburgh too so was wondering is he a Hibby ?.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/13121981/sean-murdoch-the-ex-dunfermline-hamilton-accies-hibernian-goalkeeper-who-retired-early-to-become-a-referee

[ancient hibee]

Watched this on sky sports about an ex player becoming a referee , played with us too though can't really remember the guy .He's from Edinburgh too so was wondering is he a Hibby ?.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/13121981/sean-murdoch-the-ex-dunfermline-hamilton-accies-hibernian-goalkeeper-who-retired-early-to-become-a-referee

With all his connections he’d never find a game to referee up here-particularly any that have put a few goals past him:greengrin.

[Haymaker]

Watched this on sky sports about an ex player becoming a referee , played with us too though can't really remember the guy .He's from Edinburgh too so was wondering is he a Hibby ?.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/13121981/sean-murdoch-the-ex-dunfermline-hamilton-accies-hibernian-goalkeeper-who-retired-early-to-become-a-refereeYeah he was brought in as back up for a little while If I remember correctly he was part of the "Venga bus" crew.

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[overdrive]

Watched this on sky sports about an ex player becoming a referee , played with us too though can't really remember the guy .He's from Edinburgh too so was wondering is he a Hibby ?.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/13121981/sean-murdoch-the-ex-dunfermline-hamilton-accies-hibernian-goalkeeper-who-retired-early-to-become-a-referee

Yep he is a hibby. A video of him went viral a few years ago as he did one of these stupid flash mob things in New York to propose.

[Bostonhibby]

Yep he is a hibby. A video of him went viral a few years ago as he did one of these stupid flash mob things in New York to propose.The West coast mafia will erect a garden shed in the car park and put an old black & white TV in and tell him he is in charge of VAR.



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[blackpoolhibs]

Clough used to like a brown envelope in his day.:wink:

[heretoday]

I thought Forrest had 3 very good cases for penalties though Dermot Gallagher doing his best not to go against a fellow official.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13120771/ref-watch-nottingham-forest-penalty-and-post-match-statement-controversy-analysed-by-dermot-gallagher#:~:text=After%20the%20defeat%20to%20Ever ton,they%20didn't%20change%20him.

None of them are penalties. Just get on with the game FFS.

[JimBHibees]

None of them are penalties. Just get on with the game FFS.

None 😂

[Callum_62]

None of them are penalties. Just get on with the game FFS.You don't work for VAR in Scotland so you? [emoji1]

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