The culture at Hibs

[Greenio]

Was wondering about what this 'review' of Hibs will be looking at and started to think about the culture at Hibs.

Heard Naismith talking there about having a belief in coming back when they are behind, hate to say it, but you can see that. Do you see that with Hibs? No chance, you can't even see a belief in us holding a lead! You could say its this team and this manager, but its been like that through multiple teams and multiple managers. So what's the consistent at the club? Only thing I can think of is culture.

So what culture do we have at Hibs and, given it always comes form the top, who do you think it is (or isn't) leading it at the club?

[green day]

Was wondering about what this 'review' of Hibs will be looking at and started to think about the culture at Hibs.

Heard Naismith talking there about having a belief in coming back when they are behind, hate to say it, but you can see that. Do you see that with Hibs? No chance, you can't even see a belief in us holding a lead! You could say its this team and this manager, but its been like that through multiple teams and multiple managers. So what's the consistent at the club? Only thing I can think of is culture.

So what culture do we have at Hibs and, given it always comes form the top, who do you think it is (or isn't) leading it at the club?
Hearts?
They have never beaten Rangers at Hampden.
Not sure I want to emulate that.

[Greenio]

Hearts?
They have never beaten Rangers at Hampden.
Not sure I want to emulate that.

I dont want to emulate them either, was just what triggered my thought

[Vini1875]

I think over the years we have created a culture of "typical Hibs" to every set back. I have heard it over and over again. From within the club a narrative has to be established like the "There's class, there's first class and then there is Hibs class" or a "no surrender" or "you'll never beat the Irish". Whatever it is, we do need to get away from the "typical Hibs", "Hibsed it" type of thinking we do have.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hibs come back from behind plenty. A myth that doesn't stand up to any analysis.

Naismith is a slavering tit.

[ian cruise]

Was wondering about what this 'review' of Hibs will be looking at and started to think about the culture at Hibs.

Heard Naismith talking there about having a belief in coming back when they are behind, hate to say it, but you can see that. Do you see that with Hibs? No chance, you can't even see a belief in us holding a lead! You could say its this team and this manager, but its been like that through multiple teams and multiple managers. So what's the consistent at the club? Only thing I can think of is culture.

So what culture do we have at Hibs and, given it always comes form the top, who do you think it is (or isn't) leading it at the club?

I don't think we have an overarching culture problem that's crossed multiple managerial appointments, but I do think we keep making the same mistake of signing good individual players, without real thought of how they fit in to a team or formation. They probably look great in training, and even in training games when playing against like minded individuals, but when it comes to the blood and thunder approach of the Scottish game we continually get caught out compared to other teams that build successful units with less glamorous individuals.

[Northernhibee]

Everything we do needs to make the first team better. That’s the nature of Scottish football.

Hospitality suites, vanity projects like Melkersen, and the like are nice to have but the first team is everything and we need to make it as good as possible.

[CapitalGreen]

Hibs come back from behind plenty. A myth that doesn't stand up to any analysis.

Naismith is a slavering tit.

I’d be interested to see this analysis to say this with such confidence because I’ve looked at it previously and in recent seasons there has been a massive drop off in the number of points we earned after going behind.

This season we have taken just 5 points from 51 in the league when we have gone behind (5 Draws, 0 Wins) plus a win in the cup against St Mirren. This is similar to recent seasons back to and including the season we finished 3rd under JR.

In 2017/18 we took 22 points from a possible 51 in the league in which we went behind plus a cup win against Livi.

[J-C]

Too many players on longish contracts and biggish wages who are on easy street and know they won't get dropped because we have no depth in squad to make them play better. Half our squad was sent out on loan, Henderson, Harbottle, Kenneh, Delferriere and then we have players like Jair who should be nowhere near this team. The whole thing's a shambles and a reset button needs pressed.

[ancient hibee]

No
Was wondering about what this 'review' of Hibs will be looking at and started to think about the culture at Hibs.

Heard Naismith talking there about having a belief in coming back when they are behind, hate to say it, but you can see that. Do you see that with Hibs? No chance, you can't even see a belief in us holding a lead! You could say its this team and this manager, but its been like that through multiple teams and multiple managers. So what's the consistent at the club? Only thing I can think of is culture.

So what culture do we have at Hibs and, given it always comes form the top, who do you think it is (or isn't) leading it at the club?
Don’t tell me I was dreaming. I thought we’d come from behind for quite a notable win in 2016.

[BILLYHIBS]

No
Don’t tell me I was dreaming. I thought we’d come from behind for quite a notable win in 2016.

Had a really funny dream last night Naples stuffed us 4-1 on their patch but we won the second leg 5-0 to go through

Really need to pack in the drink

[Centre Hawf]

Was wondering about what this 'review' of Hibs will be looking at and started to think about the culture at Hibs.

Heard Naismith talking there about having a belief in coming back when they are behind, hate to say it, but you can see that. Do you see that with Hibs? No chance, you can't even see a belief in us holding a lead! You could say its this team and this manager, but its been like that through multiple teams and multiple managers. So what's the consistent at the club? Only thing I can think of is culture.

So what culture do we have at Hibs and, given it always comes form the top, who do you think it is (or isn't) leading it at the club?

I seen it this season at Tynecastle when we were 2-0 down. I also seen it Easter Road the year before with plenty of the same players when 1-0 down to them. Same against Rangers where we scored in the last minute to equalise.

We've done it plenty and we'll do it again. Holding leads is the first priority for sure.

[gbhibby]

Was wondering about what this 'review' of Hibs will be looking at and started to think about the culture at Hibs.

Heard Naismith talking there about having a belief in coming back when they are behind, hate to say it, but you can see that. Do you see that with Hibs? No chance, you can't even see a belief in us holding a lead! You could say its this team and this manager, but its been like that through multiple teams and multiple managers. So what's the consistent at the club? Only thing I can think of is culture.

So what culture do we have at Hibs and, given it always comes form the top, who do you think it is (or isn't) leading it at the club?
You will need to ask Naismith what happened today then.

[MWHIBBIES]

I’d be interested to see this analysis to say this with such confidence because I’ve looked at it previously and in recent seasons there has been a massive drop off in the number of points we earned after going behind.

This season we have taken just 5 points from 51 in the league when we have gone behind (5 Draws, 0 Wins) plus a win in the cup against St Mirren. This is similar to recent seasons back to and including the season we finished 3rd under JR.

In 2017/18 we took 22 points from a possible 51 in the league in which we went behind plus a cup win against Livi.

So we take less points with much poorer players? Sounds about right.

We've come from 2 goals down at Kilmarnock and Hearts this season. Came from behind to draw at Aberdeen. Came from behind to beat St Mirren in cup I think. Came from 2-0 down to equalise (then lose 😂) against st Mirren. Came from behind in Switzerland.

It's not a culture issue imo. We're just crap. I don't have zero confidence in us if we go behind. We scored plenty goals this season.

[CapitalGreen]

So we take less points with much poorer players? Sounds about right.

We've come from 2 goals down at Kilmarnock and Hearts this season. Came from behind to draw at Aberdeen. Came from behind to beat St Mirren in cup I think. Came from 2-0 down to equalise (then lose 😂) against st Mirren. Came from behind in Switzerland.

It's not a culture issue imo. We're just crap. I don't have zero confidence in us if we go behind. We scored plenty goals this season.

I didn’t say it was about culture, I only challenged your assertion that we come back plenty. Taking just 5 points from a possible 51 in league games we have gone behind in this season might be plenty for you but I’d personally be looking for much better and if we want to competing further up the table we need to get much better at dealing with adversity.

I also don’t agree with your assertion that it’s purely down to much poorer players, when we finished 3rd in 20/21 we only took 7 points from a possible 48 when going behind. There was many fans who had zero confidence in us coming back when we went behind in the cup final. Fortunately back then when we took the lead we were very good at seeing it out.

[Greensunshine]

There’s been an acceptance that once we build the stadium and then once we get a new training centre, we’ll make the club so much more attractive for players coming to our club.

We’ve now just been given a cheque for six million quid and guess what? Most of that is going into bricks and mortar.

The product on the park has played second fiddle for so long.

That’s kinda what the culture has become at Hibs.
The stands have empty seats all over the place, supporters are finding other things to on a Saturday.

The people who run the business have lost all concept of what this club is really all about.

That’s putting a good entertaining football side on the park capable of at least punching its weight in spending terms. That hasn’t been the case recently.

[tamig]

There’s been an acceptance that once we build the stadium and then once we get a new training centre, we’ll make the club so much more attractive for players coming to our club.

We’ve now just been given a cheque for six million quid and guess what? Most of that is going into bricks and mortar.

The product on the park has played second fiddle for so long.

That’s kinda what the culture has become at Hibs.
The stands have empty seats all over the place, supporters are finding other things to on a Saturday.

The people who run the business have lost all concept of what this club is really all about.

That’s putting a good entertaining football side on the park capable of at least punching its weight in spending terms. That hasn’t been the case recently.
We’ve spent more on the playing squad than we ever have in the past couple of seasons. To suggest the off-field commercial improvements have been done at the expense of the football budget is just nonsense.

[Greensunshine]

We’ve spent more on the playing squad than we ever have in the past couple of seasons. To suggest the off-field commercial improvements have been done at the expense of the football budget is just nonsense.

I’m not suggesting that at all, I’m suggesting that they’ve not as interested in the playing squad as they should have been.
The evidence for this is the product on the field.
We are bottom six for a reason.

[Forza Fred]

I don't think we have an overarching culture problem that's crossed multiple managerial appointments, but I do think we keep making the same mistake of signing good individual players, without real thought of how they fit in to a team or formation. They probably look great in training, and even in training games when playing against like minded individuals, but when it comes to the blood and thunder approach of the Scottish game we continually get caught out compared to other teams that build successful units with less glamorous individuals.

Like Celtic and Rangers you mean?

[Forza Fred]

I don’t think it’s rocket science.

Usually, but granted, not always, in a football match, the team with the better players wins.

Conclusion…..we need better players?

[Greenio]

I don’t think it’s rocket science.

Usually, but granted, not always, in a football match, the team with the better players wins.

Conclusion…..we need better players?


Better players?

What does that mean?

It's not about better players, it's about a better team.

And what makes good teams - strong cultures.

You can have a team of the best talent in the world...in any industry...but if you don't set them up to succeed, they won't.

I prob set a few nerves off with my Naismith reference, it wasn't about him or hearts or us v them at all, **** them, it's about the fact that you cannot simply say our years and years of underperforming are down to one team, or one Manager, or the wrong formation...maybe in the immediate but it's been like this for ages

My fear is that since Ron passing, we're looking a little light on leadership as it's been handed to people that can't do it/don't want it

[Forza Fred]

Better players?

What does that mean?

It's not about better players, it's about a better team.

And what makes good teams - strong cultures.

You can have a team of the best talent in the world...in any industry...but if you don't set them up to succeed, they won't.

I prob set a few nerves off with my Naismith reference, it wasn't about him or hearts or us v them at all, **** them, it's about the fact that you cannot simply say our years and years of underperforming are down to one team, or one Manager, or the wrong formation...maybe in the immediate but it's been like this for ages

My fear is that since Ron passing, we're looking a little light on leadership as it's been handed to people that can't do it/don't want it

What does better players mean?

Really?

[Gloucester Hibs]

I don't think we have an overarching culture problem that's crossed multiple managerial appointments, but I do think we keep making the same mistake of signing good individual players, without real thought of how they fit in to a team or formation. They probably look great in training, and even in training games when playing against like minded individuals, but when it comes to the blood and thunder approach of the Scottish game we continually get caught out compared to other teams that build successful units with less glamorous individuals.

Good post. We recently seem to have turned our back on the domestic market (Levitt signing aside), basically the complete opposite approach to what the poppy pinchers have done/are doing. We also seem to ignore the areas of the team requiring the most attention.

[ekhibee]

No
Don’t tell me I was dreaming. I thought we’d come from behind for quite a notable win in 2016.

We led before we came from behind, not quite the same.

[hibsbollah]

So we take less points with much poorer players? Sounds about right.

We've come from 2 goals down at Kilmarnock and Hearts this season. Came from behind to draw at Aberdeen. Came from behind to beat St Mirren in cup I think. Came from 2-0 down to equalise (then lose 😂) against st Mirren. Came from behind in Switzerland.

It's not a culture issue imo. We're just crap. I don't have zero confidence in us if we go behind. We scored plenty goals this season.

:agree: i counted those off when we discussed this last month, a fair few more occasions when we came back from being behind without taking all three points too, Ross County, hearts, probably more. It just feels like we never come back because of the negative self-talk.

[MKHIBEE]

I’m not suggesting that at all, I’m suggesting that they’ve not as interested in the playing squad as they should have been.
The evidence for this is the product on the field.
We are bottom six for a reason.

What evidence do you have that they are not as interested in the football side as they should have been?

[CJHibby]

We have a culture of second best is good enough. The amount of games we lose when should be winning bears that out.

[Forza Fred]

Good post. We recently seem to have turned our back on the domestic market (Levitt signing aside), basically the complete opposite approach to what the poppy pinchers have done/are doing. We also seem to ignore the areas of the team requiring the most attention.

I understand why some say that, but not sure a ‘bought in Scotland’ tag means it will result in greater success than if sourced from elsewhere.

You mentioned Hearts, and while I hate using them to support any discussions, while their recent 3 pre contract signings most definitely come from Scotland, consider this…

Hearts starting 11 in the cup semi final on Sunday against Rangers contained 8 players who had not previously played in the SPFL Premier Division before joining them.

One of them…Kingsley had played in the Scottish Championship with Falkirk but not in our league..but even if we count him in that’s still 7 then who had no Scottish experience.

I haven’t been through the Rangers side, nor Celtic, from this weekend but would be surprised if Scots were anywhere near a majority

My thinking may be simplistic…….that it matters not where a player comes from as long as he is properly identified as being ‘good enough’ to play in this league……not considered ‘not good enough just because he might come from a ‘foreign’ league

Also, it’s rare now to see Rangers or Celtic signing many players from within Scotland, suggesting that they too are not concerned that a lack of Scottish experience somehow is a handicap.

What we need to do is sign better players than we have now……where they come from doesn’t really matter to me, as long as we sign the right ones.

I am the first to admit that our recruitment has been pretty ordinary in recent years, and that is where the issue lies……in actually identifying good players…….wherever they currently play.

[Gloucester Hibs]

I understand why some say that, but not sure a ‘bought in Scotland’ tag means it will result in greater success than if sourced from elsewhere.

You mentioned Hearts, and while I hate using them to support any discussions, while their recent 3 pre contract signings most definitely come from Scotland, consider this…

Hearts starting 11 in the cup semi final on Sunday against Rangers contained 8 players who had not previously played in the SPFL Premier Division before joining them.

One of them…Kingsley had played in the Scottish Championship with Falkirk but not in our league..but even if we count him in that’s still 7 then who had no Scottish experience.

I haven’t been through the Rangers side, nor Celtic, from this weekend but would be surprised if Scots were anywhere near a majority

My thinking may be simplistic…….that it matters not where a player comes from as long as he is properly identified as being ‘good enough’ to play in this league……not considered ‘not good enough just because he might come from a ‘foreign’ league

Also, it’s rare now to see Rangers or Celtic signing many players from within Scotland, suggesting that they too are not concerned that a lack of Scottish experience somehow is a handicap.

What we need to do is sign better players than we have now……where they come from doesn’t really matter to me, as long as we sign the right ones.

I am the first to admit that our recruitment has been pretty ordinary in recent years, and that is where the issue lies……in actually identifying good players…….wherever they currently play.

Yep, a good reply and all fair points. I just think that buying up some of the best domestic talent might be a "quick fix" to get us closer to where we want to be. Agreed on the old firm although their budgets allow for a higher standard of player brought in from outside Scotland so less risk.

[Sioux]

I understand why some say that, but not sure a ‘bought in Scotland’ tag means it will result in greater success than if sourced from elsewhere.

You mentioned Hearts, and while I hate using them to support any discussions, while their recent 3 pre contract signings most definitely come from Scotland, consider this…

Hearts starting 11 in the cup semi final on Sunday against Rangers contained 8 players who had not previously played in the SPFL Premier Division before joining them.

One of them…Kingsley had played in the Scottish Championship with Falkirk but not in our league..but even if we count him in that’s still 7 then who had no Scottish experience.

I haven’t been through the Rangers side, nor Celtic, from this weekend but would be surprised if Scots were anywhere near a majority

My thinking may be simplistic…….that it matters not where a player comes from as long as he is properly identified as being ‘good enough’ to play in this league……not considered ‘not good enough just because he might come from a ‘foreign’ league

Also, it’s rare now to see Rangers or Celtic signing many players from within Scotland, suggesting that they too are not concerned that a lack of Scottish experience somehow is a handicap.

What we need to do is sign better players than we have now……where they come from doesn’t really matter to me, as long as we sign the right ones.

I am the first to admit that our recruitment has been pretty ordinary in recent years, and that is where the issue lies……in actually identifying good players…….wherever they currently play.

Rangers & Celtic don't generally sign Scottish based players on the basis that they want better players than Scotland can provide.

[Forza Fred]

Rangers & Celtic don't generally sign Scottish based players on the basis that they want better players than Scotland can provide.

Exactly!

[Greenio]

What does better players mean?

Really?


I don't think it's a dumb question. Better. It's a pointless word to use.

We've had players that are 'better' than the players if other teams across the park. They still beat us.

It's not about better players. It's about a better team.

You can have a team of the best players in the world and not achieve anything.

[hibsbollah]

Rangers & Celtic don't generally sign Scottish based players on the basis that they want better players than Scotland can provide.

:agree: Its false logic to think that buying players that ‘know the Scottish game’ is the way forward domestically. Better to find markets that are affordable, absolutely nothing wrong with going fishing in Australia, or the Nordics like Aberdeen are doing. I dont even have a problem with shopping at Rainbow FC, despite our recent history of getting burnt. Football is football, its the quality of the information thats important.

[Forza Fred]

I don't think it's a dumb question. Better. It's a pointless word to use.

We've had players that are 'better' than the players if other teams across the park. They still beat us.

It's not about better players. It's about a better team.

You can have a team of the best players in the world and not achieve anything.


So ‘better’ is a pointless word to use in regards to players…but it’s ok to use better in regards to a team.

Fair enough mate.

[CapitalGreen]

Yep, a good reply and all fair points. I just think that buying up some of the best domestic talent might be a "quick fix" to get us closer to where we want to be. Agreed on the old firm although their budgets allow for a higher standard of player brought in from outside Scotland so less risk.

In the summer of 2013 we signed 8 permanent players, all from the British Isles. 7 of the 8 had experience of Scottish Football and 6 of them played in the Scottish Premiership the previous season. These players added to a squad that already contained 10+ Scots and a number of others with league experience. During that season we brought in a manager with extensive knowledge of Scottish football.

We ended up relegated - turns out it that where a player comes from or what their experience of the league is doesn’t trump ability. What matters is signing the best players/staff we can irrespective of where they come from.

[Forza Fred]

Yep, a good reply and all fair points. I just think that buying up some of the best domestic talent might be a "quick fix" to get us closer to where we want to be. Agreed on the old firm although their budgets allow for a higher standard of player brought in from outside Scotland so less risk.

Yep, not against signing Scottish players at all if they are good enough.

Just don’t think we should only look there, to the exclusion of everywhere else.

[JimBHibees]

Recent signings from Scottish league. Gogic Magennis JDH Mackay Tait no doubt others. Bit of a mixed bag to be fair.

[J-C]

Getting from the Scottish market is always a mixed bag, for every John McGinn there's Drey Wright, unfortunately more Wrights than McGinns.

[JimBHibees]

Getting from the Scottish market is always a mixed bag, for every John McGinn there's Drey Wright, unfortunately more Wrights than McGinns.

Deliberately blanked Drey out of my memory

[Smartie]

Interesting that against the backdrop of a clamour for more proven Scottish signings, Maolida has dropped in on loan, hit the ground running and been a resounding success.

Not sure what point I’m trying to make here but when Kamberi came in on loan he was a resounding success as well… then when he returned as a permanent signing with a track record in Scottish football he didn’t do nearly as well.

Every signing carries risk and every market will see successes and failures.

[Since452]

We have a culture of choking when it really matters and an inferiority complex when it comes to Hearts. That's the harsh reality. Our mindset is ***** and has been for years. The culture needs to change but that is a hard thing to change in the short term. That will only change through impressive results and winning games we are expected to win when the pressure is high more often than not.

[Greenio]

So ‘better’ is a pointless word to use in regards to players…but it’s ok to use better in regards to a team.

Fair enough mate.

I think so yeah.

My point was that individuals are not the issue, its the collective that matters.

Anyway, prob missing each others point, as is easy to do on here

[Forza Fred]

I think so yeah.

My point was that individuals are not the issue, its the collective that matters.

Anyway, prob missing each others point, as is easy to do on here

Aye.

Let's call it a 0-0 draw and move on