Bottom 6 - Has the club said anything yet?

[One Day Soon]

We’ve just finished bottom six. Another humiliation for the club and its support.

Has the club - particularly the Chief Executive or the owner - made any statement yet? Any apology, statement of intent or regret? It’s over 24 hours later, you’d imagine a leadership remotely worth its salt would step up to communicate with the support, even if only to pay lip service.

[B.H.F.C]

Couldn’t give a **** what they have to say. It’ll just be the usual stuff that we’ve heard numerous times before. Any kind of statement means nothing.

[Iain G]

We’ve just finished bottom six. Another humiliation for the club and its support.

Has the club - particularly the Chief Executive or the owner - made any statement yet? Any apology, statement of intent or regret? It’s over 24 hours later, you’d imagine a leadership remotely worth its salt would step up to communicate with the support, even if only to pay lip service.

Waiting for the end of the season to congratulate everyone on finishing top of the bottom 6, great achievement for NM and the team, hoping they can finish top again next year and cement our position of best of the rest.

[Trinity Hibee]

I hope they don’t make any statement. Seems to be statements flying about for everything these days.

[flash]

We’ve just finished bottom six. Another humiliation for the club and its support.

Has the club - particularly the Chief Executive or the owner - made any statement yet? Any apology, statement of intent or regret? It’s over 24 hours later, you’d imagine a leadership remotely worth its salt would step up to communicate with the support, even if only to pay lip service.
Don't you have access to the usual channels or was your question merely a vehicle to vent?

Might be worth remembering our owner is a lady who very recently lost her husband before we pile into her as well.

[we are hibs]

Don't you have access to the usual channels or was your question merely a vehicle to vent?

Might be worth remembering our owner is a lady who very recently lost her husband before we pile into her as well.



Kit Gordon may be owner in name and I think she's involved in the community side of the club but I'm pretty sure she has nothing to do with the actual running of the club. That's on Ian Gordon, Ben Kensell and Malcolm McPherson. Who I'm sure the poster was actually meaning. And I'm sure you knew that.

[Geo_1875]

I don't want to hear any statements just now. Hopefully the board are as angry and frustrated as the fans and are working hard to make the necessary changes.

[flash]

Kit Gordon may be owner in name and I think she's involved in the community side of the club but I'm pretty sure she has nothing to do with the actual running of the club. That's on Ian Gordon, Ben Kensell and Malcolm McPherson. Who I'm sure the poster was actually meaning. And I'm sure you knew that.

"Pretty sure".

[Heisenberg]

If the manager is staying then I doubt they’ll say anything at all aside from maybe an end of season “we know this wasn’t good enough” message.

[Argylehibby]

A statement saying we are too big a club to finish in the bottom six among the dross of the league? It would sound pretty arrogant.

[lyonhibs]

We’ve just finished bottom six. Another humiliation for the club and its support.

Has the club - particularly the Chief Executive or the owner - made any statement yet? Any apology, statement of intent or regret? It’s over 24 hours later, you’d imagine a leadership remotely worth its salt would step up to communicate with the support, even if only to pay lip service.

The absolute last thing they should do is make some mealy mouthed, lip service announcement.

Sacking the manager and preferably themselves is the only announcement from the Executive management/board that I'm interested in and we all know that's not going to happen.

[Wilson]

A statement saying we are too big a club to finish in the bottom six among the dross of the league? It would sound pretty arrogant.

Yes. You don't come out with that. Though they should certainly be feeling that way behind closed doors. And their actions now ought to reflect that fact.

[I'm Spartacus]

Absolutly NO to any statement as BK would make things even worse. He'd use Ron's name and also use the new investment to distract from the reality that we are a complete shambles.

[we are hibs]

"Pretty sure".

Yes. Pretty sure.

[One Day Soon]

A statement saying we are too big a club to finish in the bottom six among the dross of the league? It would sound pretty arrogant.

I mean, TBH, right now I'd settle for a pretty short statement just apologising for failing to make the top 6. Particularly given the rather ill-judged 'jubilation' comment from the manager post match on Saturday.

[One Day Soon]

Don't you have access to the usual channels or was your question merely a vehicle to vent?

Might be worth remembering our owner is a lady who very recently lost her husband before we pile into her as well.

You're funny.

[WeeRussell]

If the manager is staying then I doubt they’ll say anything at all aside from maybe an end of season “we know this wasn’t good enough” message.

Yep, and rightly so I think. An end of season statement before the end of the season doesn’t seem necessary to me.

[flash]

You're funny.

I am but not sure that's relevant.

[stuart-farquhar]

The new BTG looks good though.
Probably be as empty as the images in the brochure. How prescient of the management.

[One Day Soon]

I am but not sure that's relevant.

Bless

[bingo70]

I think the club should always communicate with the fans. Some call it lip service, I think it’s just good practice to speak to your customers who you heavily rely on.

Things haven’t been good enough this season, I think the club do need to publicly acknowledge that.

[bingo70]

Yep, and rightly so I think. An end of season statement before the end of the season doesn’t seem necessary to me.

Our season pretty much has ended.

[One Day Soon]

Our season pretty much has ended.

We were so, so close to jubilation though...

[flash]

The new BTG looks good though.
Probably be as empty as the images in the brochure. How prescient of the management.

We should demolish it again.

[Alfred E Newman]

There will be the usual media blackout.

[Brightside]

There will be the usual media blackout.

There has been multiple posts and interviews.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

I’d be interested to know, since the split was introduced. How many times have we finished top 6?

[flash]

I’d be interested to know, since the split was introduced. How many times have we finished top 6?

No offence but its pretty easy to find out.

[Since452]

I think the club should always communicate with the fans. Some call it lip service, I think it’s just good practice to speak to your customers who you heavily rely on.

Things haven’t been good enough this season, I think the club do need to publicly acknowledge that.

I agree. It looks pretty weak that we haven't acknowledged it in my opinion. You could bet your life on it that if we'd secured top six the socials would have been full of the "and how are we feeling this morning Hibees?" stuff.

I don't care how it makes us look to other clubs. Bottom six is an embarrassment and the club should be saying it isn't acceptable and acknowledging the support who as always, have been excellent this season and travelled in numbers.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

No offence but its pretty easy to find out.

None taken, flash. Busy right now though so someone might post it up. Hence the post. Have a good one though!

[flash]

I agree. It looks pretty weak that we haven't acknowledged it in my opinion. You could bet your life on it that if we'd secured top six the socials would have been full of the "and how are we feeling this morning Hibees?" stuff.

I don't care how it makes us look to other clubs. Bottom six is an embarrassment and the club should be saying it isn't acceptable and acknowledging the support who as always, have been excellent this season and travelled in numbers.

It might be the case that when they talk to us next it will be to announce the manager's departure.

Personally I think they will give him more time but it could go either way.

[flash]

None taken, flash. Busy right now though so someone might post it up. Hence the post. Have a good one though!

Just checked and its ten times each side including this season which is pretty awful.

[.Sean.]

I’m sure we’ll hear from them when they’re trying to flog more season tickets or posting about the women’s team

[hibee_girl]

A statement saying we are too big a club to finish in the bottom six among the dross of the league? It would sound pretty arrogant.

:agree:

We’re 7th and yes it’s not good enough but it’s not relegation.

The club will know it’s not good enough, no need for a statement.

[Forza Fred]

If the club decide to keep him there won’t be a statement…it will be business as usual.

If they decide not to keep him there will be a statement.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The money we have spent in the last two or three seasons compared to Killie, Dundee and St Mirren must be significant, possibly even on a par with Hearts in that period, if not more.

To finish outside of the top 6 given the investment in the team is as close to abject failure as you can get short of relegation. We have a massive job in the summer. Probably the last thing we need at this point is European football.

I watched Bournemouth hand Man United their arse on Saturday. OK an abject Man United, but Bournemouth made them look as bad as they were, they could, and should, have been 3 - 0 up at half time.

Is it too much to ask that our new minority owners bring Hibs up to that level in the context of our league?

[eastmainsmsh]

Bottom line it's the players at fault as well imo really poor to watch not just this season you'd think they would be able to up their performance levels and show some consistency

[Wilson]

The money we have spent in the last two or three seasons compared to Killie, Dundee and St Mirren must be significant, possibly even on a par with Hearts in that period, if not more.

To finish outside of the top 6 given the investment in the team is as close to abject failure as you can get short of relegation. We have a massive job in the summer. Probably the last thing we need at this point is European football.

I watched Bournemouth hand Man United their arse on Saturday. OK an abject Man United, but Bournemouth made them look as bad as they were, they could, and should, have been 3 - 0 up at half time.

Is it too much to ask that our new minority owners bring Hibs up to that level in the context of our league?

We were in Europe. Our performance in those games should have been a good gauge as to where we are. We want to be in Europe. Preferably for a decent run. So we look at where we were weak and improve from there. Kensell and McDermott and Ian Gordon on the case.

How do we go from that to "being in Europe is the last thing we need"?

That says it all for me. We're going backwards at a rate of knotts.

[Since452]

:agree:

We’re 7th and yes it’s not good enough but it’s not relegation.

The club will know it’s not good enough, no need for a statement.

It's a colossal failure not just not good enough. We spent over 2 million in the summer and he was given players on Premier League wages in January to try and salvage Europe. Just as well we've been given investment or our next accounts would be even more of a mess. I know we aren't paying the loan players wages but we've missed out on a lot of money being bottom six and i'd wager we wont even finish 7th.

[Alfred E Newman]

There has been multiple posts and interviews.

Yes, the usual in house spin.

[I'm Spartacus]

We were so, so close to jubilation though...

I mean, this is up there with the Robbie Reply quote. Shambolic.


I’d be interested to know, since the split was introduced. How many times have we finished top 6?

2000/01 3rd
2001/02 10th
2002/03 7th
2003/04 8th
2004/05 3rd
2005/06 4th
2006/07 6th
2007/08 6th
2008/09 6th
2009/10 4th
2010/11 10th
2011/12 11th
2012/13 7th
2013/14 11th
2014/15 Championship
2015/16 Championship
2016/17 Championship
2017/18 4th
2018/19 5th
2019/20 7th
2020/21 3rd
2021/22 8th
2022/23 5th
2023/24 7th at best

24 seasons of the split, 13 x top 6 appearances.

[Iain G]

Yes, the usual in house spin.

Spin!?!

Some of our fans really don't like our club very much and love to put a boot in.

[WhileTheChief..]

I am but not sure that's relevant.

You’re on fire today. Keep it up.

[WeeRussell]

Our season pretty much has ended.

I don’t disagree.

But surely would make sense to sum things up and make any apologies the fans feel they’re due once it’s actually finished, rather than a “seeing as our season is pretty much done” type statement before we go into playing 5 more competitive games.

We don’t make official statements when knocked out the league cup in the group stages etc. Interviews and the like acknowledging the disappointing result is the norm. The new world of wanting ‘statements’ all the time is all a bit strange to me.

And I liked it when the word ‘statement’ usually meant we were about to laugh at how pathetic the rangers are.

[Houston7]

Spin!?!

Some of our fans really don't like our club very much and love to put a boot in.

Yes, they seem to like them as much as they like the HMRC (or maybe HMFC, even)!
Also, while obviously we are all entitled to our opinions, many thinking that Maolida is not good enough for Hibs, and others (or maybe the same ones) thinking that we should have a complete clear out and instantly build a winning team from scratch, beggars belief!

[hibsbollah]

I mean, this is up there with the Robbie Reply quote. Shambolic.



2000/01 3rd
2001/02 10th
2002/03 7th
2003/04 8th
2004/05 3rd
2005/06 4th
2006/07 6th
2007/08 6th
2008/09 6th
2009/10 4th
2010/11 10th
2011/12 11th
2012/13 7th
2013/14 11th
2014/15 Championship
2015/16 Championship
2016/17 Championship
2017/18 4th
2018/19 5th
2019/20 7th
2020/21 3rd
2021/22 8th
2022/23 5th
2023/24 7th at best

24 seasons of the split, 13 x top 6 appearances.

Interesting. So, giving each manager a full season if he contributed to around 50% or more of that seasons games, i make that at a brief glance something like…

Mowbay, Collins, Lennon and Mixu had 100% 2/2 seasons top six finishes.
Yogi and Lee Johnson 1/1 100%
Ross and Mcleish 1/2 50%
Bobby Williamson, Fenlon, Butcher, Montgomery, Maloney and Calderwood all failed to get a top six finish (although these last two didnt get more than half of a full season, Calderwood got two halfs)

[I'm Spartacus]

Interesting. So, giving each manager a full season if he contributed to around 50% or more of that seasons games, i make that at a brief glance something like…

Mowbay, Collins, Lennon and Mixu had 100% 2/2 seasons top six finishes.
Yogi and Lee Johnson 1/1 100%
Ross and Mcleish 1/2 50%
Bobby Williamson, Fenlon, Butcher, Montgomery, Maloney and Calderwood all failed to get a top six finish (although these last two didnt get more than half of a full season, Calderwood got two halfs)

You can actually see a theme of our successful appointments, ex-players, seasoned pro's, big charachters in the scottish game, who had success in Scotland.

[Alfred E Newman]

Spin!?!

Some of our fans really don't like our club very much and love to put a boot in.

You don't half come out with some tripe.
But I will agree, I certainly don't like what the club has become, a joke.

[Iain G]

You don't half come out with some tripe.
But I will agree, I certainly don't like what the club has become, a joke.

It's not a joke either. You have been eating your hyperbole pills again.

[hibsbollah]

You can actually see a theme of our successful appointments, ex-players, seasoned pro's, big charachters in the scottish game, who had success in Scotland.

I suppose so, although obviously we all know that top six alone isnt enough to be considered success. And Maloney and Butcher were successful in the Scottish game too.

[hibsbollah]

Interesting. So, giving each manager a full season if he contributed to around 50% or more of that seasons games, i make that at a brief glance something like…

Mowbay, Collins, Lennon and Mixu had 100% 2/2 seasons top six finishes.
Yogi and Lee Johnson 1/1 100%
Ross and Mcleish 1/2 50%
Bobby Williamson, Fenlon, Butcher, Montgomery, Maloney and Calderwood all failed to get a top six finish (although these last two didnt get more than half of a full season, Calderwood got two halfs)

And since i dont have any time on my hands :greengrin

Since the split after Mcleish we’ve had 15 managers. Even if you discount all the caretaker interim managers in that time (an incredible 13. 13! SDG has done it three times, Eddie May twice. Mad) those 15 managers have been afforded an average of 16 months each. And its amazing how many have been afforded almost exactly the same amount of time, just over one calendar year or just short of two seasons if you prefer (Collins and Calderwood 13 months, Yogi 14,Johnson15 Mixu 16. The longest server has been Lennon at 2 years and 5 months.

Its a sad indictment of performance, recruitment and retention over twenty plus years. I know modern football when you’re a club of our size, tends to be like that, transient, but id hazard a guess if you look at similar sized clubs we’d be an outlier.

[flash]

You’re on fire today. Keep it up.

Praise indeed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

And since i dont have any time on my hands :greengrin

Since the split after Mcleish we’ve had 15 managers. Even if you discount all the caretaker interim managers in that time (an incredible 13. 13! SDG has done it three times, Eddie May twice. Mad) those 15 managers have been afforded an average of 16 months each. And its amazing how many have been afforded almost exactly the same amount of time, just over one calendar year or just short of two seasons if you prefer (Collins and Calderwood 13 months, Yogi 14,Johnson15 Mixu 16. The longest server has been Lennon at 2 years and 5 months.

Its a sad indictment of performance, recruitment and retention over twenty plus years. I know modern football when you’re a club of our size, tends to be like that, transient, but id hazard a guess if you look at similar sized clubs we’d be an outlier.

In that same period, Hearts have had 19, Aberdeen have had 10, Dundee United have had 16.

If you compare us to a team down south then I reckon Spurs would probably be a fair comparison. Expected to be up and around the Euro spots, never expected to win the league. They’ve had 12. Aston Villa could probably be argued to be similar. They’ve had14.

In terms of the Scottish teams that we could probably be grouped with, we’re bang on the average of 15, so definitely not an outlier. If you throw Spurs and Villa into the mix then it comes down to 14. Not really an outlier again.

As a comparison, people keep claiming we’re becoming like Watford. In the same period, they’ve had 23 and are currently without a manager. They’ve had the 15 managers we’ve had since McLeish left (will be 16 when they appoint a new one) in the time we’ve had 7. The idea we’re becoming ‘like them’ is miles off it.

[Hibiza]

Should be saying " Sorry for employing a rookie manager from a sub - standard league ".

[Brightside]

I don't even think its the number of managers....but the fact that the longest in post was for 2.5 years is pretty staggering.

[hibsbollah]

I don't even think its the number of managers....but the fact that the longest in post was for 2.5 years is pretty staggering.

I think thats the thing that jumps out at me too. Hearts had Jeffries andLevein for long spells, im sureAberdeen had Mcinnes and a few other gadgies for a decent innings. And certainly Hearts numbers are bumped up by the Romanov madness where they were in as essentially caretakers.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think thats the thing that jumps out at me too. Hearts had Jeffries andLevein for long spells, im sureAberdeen had Mcinnes and a few other gadgies for a decent innings. And certainly Hearts numbers are bumped up by the Romanov madness where they were in as essentially caretakers.

Jeffries was 1 and a half years, Levein was nearly 4. For Aberdeen, they had Calderwood with 5 years and McInnes with 8. Craig Brown got 2 and a bit years and was generally crap the whole time. Giving him time done nothing to bring success. Dundee United gave Levein, Houston and McNamara all about 3 years each.

The thing that stands out for me is that all the managers listed above all came in the door and done fairly well from the off, hence why they got given time. They earned it.

Levein came in to Hearts and finished 5th, 5th, 3rd, 3rd. Calderwood came in and finished 4th, 6th, 3rd, 4th and 4th and McInnes came in and finished 3rd with a cup win, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 4th and then was eventually sacked when they ended up in the bottom 6. Even Jeffries in the 90s, came in, got 4th and a cup final, 4th and a cup final, 3rd and a cup win. Dundee United had Levein, Houston and McNamara over a 9 year period which saw them finish 9th (they had 8 points after 12 games when Levein came in) 5th, 5th, 3rd (and cup), 4th, 4th, 6th, 4th, 5th.

We don’t really have anyone to compare that to other than Mowbray, who we of course never sacked. From looking at our records, I’d suggest we’re in no way an outlier and we all treat managers much the same, with Hearts being the potential outlier.

If they’re doing well, we all keep them (with Hearts being a slight outlier for a period), if they’re not, we all sack them. If they’ve previously done well but then start failing, we all sack them.

The idea we’ve got some highly undesirable record in terms of sacking managers doesn’t really stand up to much scrutiny. We’re much the same as anyone else and if a manager doesn’t want our job because he might get sacked then he’ll have slim pickings in terms of job opportunities as we’re much the same as most teams. Given our lack of sustained success compared to the other 3 teams, there could be a genuine argument put forward that we give failing managers longer than others.

[Winston Ingram]

Bottom line it's the players at fault as well imo really poor to watch not just this season you'd think they would be able to up their performance levels and show some consistency

The bottom line is if the team isn’t performing, the buck stops with the manager.

[Malthibby]

We were so, so close to jubilation though...

Relief, perhaps, jubilation at pipping Dundee for 6th, naw....
I might have just walked into a 'D'uh' moment here though.....

[Malthibby]

Relief, perhaps, jubilation at pipping Dundee for 6th, naw....
I might have just walked into a 'D'uh' moment here though.....


Monty...d'uh......

[hibsbollah]

Jeffries was 1 and a half years, Levein was nearly 4. For Aberdeen, they had Calderwood with 5 years and McInnes with 8. Craig Brown got 2 and a bit years and was generally crap the whole time. Giving him time done nothing to bring success. Dundee United gave Levein, Houston and McNamara all about 3 years each.

The thing that stands out for me is that all the managers listed above all came in the door and done fairly well from the off, hence why they got given time. They earned it.

Levein came in to Hearts and finished 5th, 5th, 3rd, 3rd. Calderwood came in and finished 4th, 6th, 3rd, 4th and 4th and McInnes came in and finished 3rd with a cup win, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 4th and then was eventually sacked when they ended up in the bottom 6. Even Jeffries in the 90s, came in, got 4th and a cup final, 4th and a cup final, 3rd and a cup win. Dundee United had Levein, Houston and McNamara over a 9 year period which saw them finish 9th (they had 8 points after 12 games when Levein came in) 5th, 5th, 3rd (and cup), 4th, 4th, 6th, 4th, 5th.

We don’t really have anyone to compare that to other than Mowbray, who we of course never sacked. From looking at our records, I’d suggest we’re in no way an outlier and we all treat managers much the same, with Hearts being the potential outlier.

If they’re doing well, we all keep them (with Hearts being a slight outlier for a period), if they’re not, we all sack them. If they’ve previously done well but then start failing, we all sack them.

The idea we’ve got some highly undesirable record in terms of sacking managers doesn’t really stand up to much scrutiny. We’re much the same as anyone else and if a manager doesn’t want our job because he might get sacked then he’ll have slim pickings in terms of job opportunities as we’re much the same as most teams. Given our lack of sustained success compared to the other 3 teams, there could be a genuine argument put forward that we give failing managers longer than others.

Thanks for clarifying, i wasnt aware that the clubs you mention have a similar churn. Perhaps thats (from my point of view) a collective failing of football clubs in general, of a congenital lack of patience rather than a Hibs specific thing. You must confess though, that the absence of one single manager to stay at our club for more than 2 and a half years iver such a long period, almost 25 years, is a bit unusual? And the regularity with which the season and a half window seems to appear. Nothing sustained will ever be created in that length of time.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I mean, this is up there with the Robbie Reply quote. Shambolic.



2000/01 3rd
2001/02 10th
2002/03 7th
2003/04 8th
2004/05 3rd
2005/06 4th
2006/07 6th
2007/08 6th
2008/09 6th
2009/10 4th
2010/11 10th
2011/12 11th
2012/13 7th
2013/14 11th
2014/15 Championship
2015/16 Championship
2016/17 Championship
2017/18 4th
2018/19 5th
2019/20 7th
2020/21 3rd
2021/22 8th
2022/23 5th
2023/24 7th at best

24 seasons of the split, 13 x top 6 appearances.

Is it not 11 x top 6?

[bingo70]

I don't even think its the number of managers....but the fact that the longest in post was for 2.5 years is pretty staggering.

I don’t find that staggering, that’s just modern football.

Not many managers will last 2.5 years in a job now for various reasons.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Thanks for clarifying, i wasnt aware that the clubs you mention have a similar churn. Perhaps thats (from my point of view) a collective failing of football clubs in general, of a congenital lack of patience rather than a Hibs specific thing. You must confess though, that the absence of one single manager to stay at our club for more than 2 and a half years iver such a long period, almost 25 years, is a bit unusual? And the regularity with which the season and a half window seems to appear. Nothing sustained will ever be created in that length of time.

It probably is unusual that we haven’t given anybody longer than 2 and a half years but I’d suspect Mowbray was our guy for that. He got lured away though whilst all the other managers listed have never been headhunted for a bigger role/decided they didn’t want to move. Obviously we’ll never know, but I’d suspect Mowbray would have been our long term appointment had he not been taken off us.

I still think it’s fairly telling that these clubs all have longer term appointments and the common denominator is that it was all with managers who delivered a degree of success from the off and sustained it. That’s what will be required if you want to be a long term success at Hibs and the evidence is there with clubs our size that the managers who come in and do well over sustained periods will always start off well. Out of 60 managers between the 4 clubs this century, none of us can point to a single manager that started slowly (I’m talking majority of a season slowly, not 3 or 4 games slowly) and grew into the role. It doesn’t really happen.

Obviously it can be argued whether it’s a collective football issue or not, but it’s definitely not a Hibs specific issue. We’re no worse than most others and there’s no way it’ll put managers off the job for that reason.

[Hibernia&Alba]

There isn’t much to be said at this stage, when the season is still ongoing. We might well hear something at the end of the season regarding an assessment and an intention to improve etc. We will have to wait and see.

[NAE NOOKIE]

We were in Europe. Our performance in those games should have been a good gauge as to where we are. We want to be in Europe. Preferably for a decent run. So we look at where we were weak and improve from there. Kensell and McDermott and Ian Gordon on the case.

How do we go from that to "being in Europe is the last thing we need"?

That says it all for me. We're going backwards at a rate of knotts.

Its simple really. If a root and branch re examination of the football side is to happen and a whole load of new players are added to that in the summer, then a place in the very first round of the 3rd biggest European competition starting in June or something probably isn't of much use.

Far better to have a group in the LC to get things up and running before the league starts. Because the fact is we have gone backwards and if fixing it means a new manager and about 6 new first team players , then walking before you learn to run would probably be advisable.

[I'm Spartacus]

Is it not 11 x top 6?

Aye! Good spot, difficult to count with rage in the eyes :)

[Lancs Harp]

The powers that be havent realised yet what this means. In England for instance finishing 7th probably means a Conference or even Europa cup spot. Its been a good season back slaps and cherry coke all round.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Thanks for clarifying, i wasnt aware that the clubs you mention have a similar churn. Perhaps thats (from my point of view) a collective failing of football clubs in general, of a congenital lack of patience rather than a Hibs specific thing. You must confess though, that the absence of one single manager to stay at our club for more than 2 and a half years iver such a long period, almost 25 years, is a bit unusual? And the regularity with which the season and a half window seems to appear. Nothing sustained will ever be created in that length of time.

Is it not the (unintended self-defeating) consequence of - what’s the phrase we hear regularly - “not accepting mediocrity?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Boom/bust over incremental improvement - arguably Ross looking at subsequent backing and funding - would have grounds to feel aggrieved. He was steady as she goes building foundations -called out the recruitment needs. Then the wheels came off…

[I'm Spartacus]

The powers that be havent realised yet what this means. In England for instance finishing 7th probably means a Conference or even Europa cup spot. Its been a good season back slaps and cherry coke all round.

Loved the old pre-sugar limit Cherry Coke, unbeatable IMO.

[I'm Spartacus]

Boom/bust over incremental improvement - arguably Ross looking at subsequent backing and funding - would have grounds to feel aggrieved. He was steady as she goes building foundations -called out the recruitment needs. Then the wheels came off…

It was absolutly eye bleeding, I've no idea if I prefer getting beat 4-3 or winning 1-0 but a Jack Ross 1-0 winning performance.

You take the wins all day long, but it was weird, a 1-0 win felt like a defeat, it was like a psycological experiment on misery :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It was absolutly eye bleeding, I've no idea if I prefer getting beat 4-3 or winning 1-0 but a Jack Ross 1-0 winning performance.

You take the wins all day long, but it was weird, a 1-0 win felt like a defeat, it was like a psycological experiment on misery :greengrin:greengrin:greengrin

which is why I think the apparent clamour for Macinnes is destined to be a short term honeymoon should it come to pass. We’re just not geared up for thst.

we’re turning into Aberdeen.

[thebausburst]

which is why I think the apparent clamour for Macinnes is destined to be a short term honeymoon should it come to pass. We’re just not geared up for thst.

we’re turning into Aberdeen.

The association of Hibs with attacking free flowing football has been a myth for a generation now, I mean did you watch the Alex Miller years! I want McInnes because I want to go into big games (uglies, derby, cup ties) genuinely feeling we’ve got a good chance to win not fingers and toes crossed for a draw. Look at McInnes’s record at Aberdeen, it’s the blueprint of what the club/owners say they want for Hibs i.e. regular top 3, cup wins, Euro progress. It is crazy to me to think any Hibs fan wouldn’t want him as manager, he’s such an obvious choice.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

The association of Hibs with attacking free flowing football has been a myth for a generation now, I mean did you watch the Alex Miller years! I want McInnes because I want to go into big games (uglies, derby, cup ties) genuinely feeling we’ve got a good chance to win not fingers and toes crossed for a draw. Look at McInnes’s record at Aberdeen, it’s the blueprint of what the club/owners say they want for Hibs i.e. regular top 3, cup wins, Euro progress. It is crazy to me to think any Hibs fan wouldn’t want him as manager, he’s such an obvious choice.

I want him too. He wouldn’t take the job though, he’d probably hang up the second he realised the phone call was from BK.


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[bingo70]

The association of Hibs with attacking free flowing football has been a myth for a generation now, I mean did you watch the Alex Miller years! I want McInnes because I want to go into big games (uglies, derby, cup ties) genuinely feeling we’ve got a good chance to win not fingers and toes crossed for a draw. Look at McInnes’s record at Aberdeen, it’s the blueprint of what the club/owners say they want for Hibs i.e. regular top 3, cup wins, Euro progress. It is crazy to me to think any Hibs fan wouldn’t want him as manager, he’s such an obvious choice.

When people say they want to go and enjoy watching Hibs, I never see them mention free flowing football. It’s only people such as yourself making it up to back up your position on the argument.

I want to watch an entertaining Hibs side but that comes in various forms. I want us to play with energy, aggression and intensity, I want us to play on the front foot trying to dominate games, I want to see exciting players, I want to see us score loads of goals, if we go one up I want us to go for a 2nd and then a 3rd, then a 4th, not just try to see the game out, I want to see young players coming through that we can relate to and then sell on for a big profit.

All of the above can be achieved by playing route one football to a big target man and winning second balls. If we do that effectively it’ll be good to watch and entertaining, that’s fine with me!

I literally never see anybody asking to play ‘the Hibs way’ or with ‘free flowing football’, nothing wrong with wanting to enjoy the experience of going to watch Hibs though and caring a bit more than the end result.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The association of Hibs with attacking free flowing football has been a myth for a generation now, I mean did you watch the Alex Miller years! I want McInnes because I want to go into big games (uglies, derby, cup ties) genuinely feeling we’ve got a good chance to win not fingers and toes crossed for a draw. Look at McInnes’s record at Aberdeen, it’s the blueprint of what the club/owners say they want for Hibs i.e. regular top 3, cup wins, Euro progress. It is crazy to me to think any Hibs fan wouldn’t want him as manager, he’s such an obvious choice.

for all the head to beat gritty football sprinkled with some goals and higher finishes when it came to the uglies - someone will correct me if my memory lets me down - Dels teams had a habit of their bottle crashing - net even giving the uglies a game - and until about 2017 we managed to pip them to finals.

I do think it’s a reflection on Scottish football that we seemed deemed to times and repeats with the managers seemingly having to know the Scottihs game. I’m not too sure how open to innovation we are. Proof is in the pudding tho - few foreign managers outside of the OF have made an impact.

[jeffers]

The association of Hibs with attacking free flowing football has been a myth for a generation now, I mean did you watch the Alex Miller years! I want McInnes because I want to go into big games (uglies, derby, cup ties) genuinely feeling we’ve got a good chance to win not fingers and toes crossed for a draw. Look at McInnes’s record at Aberdeen, it’s the blueprint of what the club/owners say they want for Hibs i.e. regular top 3, cup wins, Euro progress. It is crazy to me to think any Hibs fan wouldn’t want him as manager, he’s such an obvious choice.

That’s not true though is it ? It was free flowing at times under both Stubbs and Lennon. In Lennon’s case under him I enjoyed going to games more than I can remember doing so in a long time. No I don’t want him back though.

I want to believe winning football and attractive football can be achieved together, that it’s not one or other. I’d like to see us go for Mcinnes too. I think people are put off by the latter part of his time with Aberdeen, where it was industrial and cynical but it wasn’t always like that. I don’t think Killie are horrible to watch under him either.

[hibsbollah]

Is it not the (unintended self-defeating) consequence of - what’s the phrase we hear regularly - “not accepting mediocrity?

Yes! I demand MORE mediocrity to achieve eventual ecstasy.

[ChilliEater]

I mean, this is up there with the Robbie Reply quote. Shambolic.



2000/01 3rd
2001/02 10th
2002/03 7th
2003/04 8th
2004/05 3rd
2005/06 4th
2006/07 6th
2007/08 6th
2008/09 6th
2009/10 4th
2010/11 10th
2011/12 11th
2012/13 7th
2013/14 11th
2014/15 Championship
2015/16 Championship
2016/17 Championship
2017/18 4th
2018/19 5th
2019/20 7th
2020/21 3rd
2021/22 8th
2022/23 5th
2023/24 7th at best

24 seasons of the split, 13 x top 6 appearances.

So our colossal failure of a shambles of a humiliating season under a clueless clown from a pub league looks like resulting in a finishing position slightly above our 24 year average? FFS why haven't they all been sacked?

[easty]

That’s not true though is it ? It was free flowing at times under both Stubbs and Lennon. In Lennon’s case under him I enjoyed going to games more than I can remember doing so in a long time. No I don’t want him back though.

I want to believe winning football and attractive football can be achieved together, that it’s not one or other. I’d like to see us go for Mcinnes too. I think people are put off by the latter part of his time with Aberdeen, where it was industrial and cynical but it wasn’t always like that. I don’t think Killie are horrible to watch under him either.

It’s free flowing rarely, and when it is it’s more to do with the quality of player than the quality of manager. In my opinion.

NM in charge of Stubbs and Lennons teams when we were good, and I’d say we’d still be good to watch.

[jeffers]

It’s free flowing rarely, and when it is it’s more to do with the quality of player than the quality of manager. In my opinion.

NM in charge of Stubbs and Lennons teams when we were good, and I’d say we’d still be good to watch.

I’m not sure I share your confidence. I’m never going to change my opinion on Johnson but he had the same players putting in free flowing performances more than I’ve ever seen from Monty’s side. And the latter has even better options. It’s maybe happened more than I can remember but bar the 30 or so minutes against a really poor Livi I’m struggling to come up with many free flowing performances under him. It’s not exactly the same point but just look at the thread discussing games people have enjoyed under Monty.