Expectations and mentality.

[Helensburghhibs]

How do we change the mentality around our club? If anyone knows the facts about actual financial gaps then please feel free to throw them at me. I'm going to use rangers as an example. If they finished outside the top 2 then the manager would be sacked this morning. If his replacement failed to finish in the top 2 he would be sacked also. Why is it different for us? Why are we debating keeping a manager that has finished well below where our resources should be? Future managers should have a performance clause with bottom 6 automatic release, until we stop accepting mediocrity we will continue to have it.

[Baldy Foghorn]

The Club will never match expectations of supporters, the Board are weak

[Helensburghhibs]

The Club will never match expectations of supporters, the Board are weak

I meant to add this wasn't another dig at monty but more a question of the club overall. I agree 100 percent. To make it a bit more personal. Why should we pay top 3 St prices to watch a team finish below that year after year?

[Trinity Hibee]

How do we change the mentality around our club? If anyone knows the facts about actual financial gaps then please feel free to throw them at me. I'm going to use rangers as an example. If they finished outside the top 2 then the manager would be sacked this morning. If his replacement failed to finish in the top 2 he would be sacked also. Why is it different for us? Why are we debating keeping a manager that has finished well below where our resources should be? Future managers should have a performance clause with bottom 6 automatic release, until we stop accepting mediocrity we will continue to have it.

This is the crux of it. You could argue 6th is pish too but to not even get top 6 is disgraceful for us in Scottish football terms. If it happened once a decade you could say it’s a one off but this happens far too regularly. I’m not sure how we consolidate ourselves other than having people in charge who have a vision to put solid foundations in for the football department.

I hate to think how many staff we have scouting players nowadays and the end product we get from it. I can only assume they are all looking at these pish stats on laptops that seems to be all the rage nowadays. There are serious failings in multiple areas from the top down which is a big worry.

[McD]

Foley should ask Richard Hughes who he thinks would be a good appointment as a manager/head coach, and a new DoF (if BMcD is going as rumoured)


We need a complete reset, from at least McDermott down. We did this after relegation under LD and looked solid, it’s incredible how quickly we abandoned that setup (not necessarily the personnel) and ended up here

[Trinity Hibee]

Foley should ask Richard Hughes who he thinks would be a good appointment as a manager/head coach, and a new DoF (if BMcD is going as rumoured)

Yep. We have to hope Foley has contacts who might be able to step up and do a job in DoF role and the manager.

[Bostonhibby]

The Club will never match expectations of supporters, the Board are weakGood point and I agree.

I don't think what happens on the pitch has even been top 3 in the boards priorities for a helluva long time now. All about selling stuff to fans, commercial relationships and building "infrastructure".

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[CapitalGreen]

As fans we go out of our way to blame everyone but the people on the pitch.

[Greensunshine]

We need a manager that won’t be told how to run the team.

A manager like Neil Lennon scares the ***** out of the people running this club/business.

He’s exactly what we need. We need someone who would rattle the players and the recruitment department out of their slumber.

[Pretty Boy]

As fans we go out of our way to blame everyone but the people on the pitch.

I think the players have to shoulder a decent chunk of the blame.

They didn't just pitch up with their boots and ask for a game though. A whole host of failures have left us with a litany of dud managers and a horribly unbalanced squad with a load of players who have contributed nothing on long term deals.

I think it's too simplistic to solely blame players, manager, DoF or CEO. There's failure at every single level.

[Nicho87]

Every jambo bafoon associated with them ex player always goes on about how important beating hibs is

To take a small part of that and use that method with a winning mentality is something we should be striving for

[He's here!]

What does 'accepting mediocrity' mean? If it means fans continuing to put money into the team no matter how abysmal the on-field product and simply hoping that one day it will get better then perhaps that has to change?

How many, though, could be motivated into the sort of action that reflected not 'accepting mediocrity'? By that I mean organised demonstrations at ER after games or at East Mains while the players are training, or boycotting games.

[Pretty Boy]

What does 'accepting mediocrity' mean? If it means fans continuing to put money into the team no matter how abysmal the on-field product and simply hoping that one day it will get better then perhaps that has to change?

How many, though, could be motivated into the sort of action that reflected not 'accepting mediocrity'? By that I mean organised demonstrations at ER after games or at East Mains while the players are training, or boycotting games.

I don't think accepting mediocrity is a fair accusation to level at fans. Almost every Hibs fan wants us to be better.

I think excusing or explaining mediocrity fits better. It's essentially a lifetimes work for most of us, trying to find excuses or reasons for why we constantly fail to punch our weight.

[matty_f]

I think the players have to shoulder a decent chunk of the blame.

They didn't just pitch up with their boots and ask for a game though. A whole host of failures have left us with a litany of dud managers and a horribly unbalanced squad with a load of players who have contributed nothing on long term deals.

I think it's too simplistic to solely blame players, manager, DoF or CEO. There's failure at every single level.

Exactly. There needs to be a proper review as it’s evident that it’s not a single point of failure issue here.

[Bristolhibby]

It’s the spine, and we haven’t had this for years.

From

Manager

Goalie

Centre half

Centre Mid

Striker

When did we last have that spine. Each one should be a leader.

We have no leaders. Who’s going to dig in and grind out that win from a draw, or protect that lead?

J

[Hibs4185]

I see a lot of people saying ‘hope Foley has the answer’.

I don’t think he will. The CEO’s he knows will be used to financial institutions and probably much bigger salaries.

Maybe through Bournemouth he might know a few contacts but would they want to come up to Scotland?

We need good solid guys like George Craig and Graeme mathie who are good wood guys who know the scottish market and how it works up here.

BK does a good job with the club overall and commercially, that’s his department.

Somebody like Donald park would be a good appointment or similar.

I just want a solid base on which to use the extra funds we have.

Can’t be arsed frittering away more money on an experiment which may or may not work. We may miss out on the next big thing but the odds are that solid and boring will prove more fruitful over a longer period.

We need stability

[GreenCastle]

How do we change the mentality around our club? If anyone knows the facts about actual financial gaps then please feel free to throw them at me. I'm going to use rangers as an example. If they finished outside the top 2 then the manager would be sacked this morning. If his replacement failed to finish in the top 2 he would be sacked also. Why is it different for us? Why are we debating keeping a manager that has finished well below where our resources should be? Future managers should have a performance clause with bottom 6 automatic release, until we stop accepting mediocrity we will continue to have it.

100%.

Loads of threads on topics since Saturday but it all comes down to AMBITION.

Do we have the AMBITION to be top 3 ?

That means not putting up with bad results and making it clear to any manager bottom 6 is an instant sackable offence.

Hibs also need to face up and be obsessed with the Derby and want it as much as Hearts and maybe that may change our woeful Derby record.

[DIXIHIBS]

How do we change the mentality around our club? If anyone knows the facts about actual financial gaps then please feel free to throw them at me. I'm going to use rangers as an example. If they finished outside the top 2 then the manager would be sacked this morning. If his replacement failed to finish in the top 2 he would be sacked also. Why is it different for us? Why are we debating keeping a manager that has finished well below where our resources should be? Future managers should have a performance clause with bottom 6 automatic release, until we stop accepting mediocrity we will continue to have it.

I don't get "accepting mediocrity" about Hibs. Looks like we could be sacking our 4th manager in less than 4 years...it's the complete opposite of acceptance.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

I don't get "accepting mediocrity" about Hibs. Looks like we could be sacking our 4th manager in less than 4 years...it's the complete opposite of acceptance.

I agree. However finishing outside of the top 6 isn’t only Montys fault, it’s systemic failure and mismanagement over years. We are ****ing rank and that’s not only his fault, just as it wasn’t only Maloney, Johnson, Ross, Hecky’s fault. We have recruited poorly (playing staff and coaching staff) and performed poorly as a result.


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[jakeshibs]

We need a manager that won’t be told how to run the team.

A manager like Neil Lennon scares the ***** out of the people running this club/business.

He’s exactly what we need. We need someone who would rattle the players and the recruitment department out of their slumber.


Lennon should be nowhere near our club, he had us playing horrific , lower in the league as he engineered his move to Celtic

[matty_f]

I agree. However finishing outside of the top 6 isn’t only Montys fault, it’s systemic failure and mismanagement over years. We are ****ing rank and that’s not only his fault, just as it wasn’t only Maloney, Johnson, Ross, Hecky’s fault. We have recruited poorly (playing staff and coaching staff) and performed poorly as a result.


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You can trace the slide back to failing to back Jack Ross properly after his third place finish. That should have been the moment we kicked on, but the recruitment team let him down massively, he went on a bad run and we really haven't recovered from that, just getting marginally worse season on season, with a bit of good fortune last season on the final pre-split game probably masking the issues.

[LEaston87]

You can trace the slide back to failing to back Jack Ross properly after his third place finish. That should have been the moment we kicked on, but the recruitment team let him down massively, he went on a bad run and we really haven't recovered from that, just getting marginally worse season on season, with a bit of good fortune last season on the final pre-split game probably masking the issues.

It’s nippy that this was the season before the automatic europa group stages or who knows how much we would have invested in the team that summer.

[WestStandWillie]

The recruitment process has been a completely mixed bag

ALF and Obita were the McDermott old pals act which has been alright
Marcondes and Maolida was a right time right place during the winter training camp.

It seems to be the "Football Manager" stats approach that has screwed us in recent times. How many of these signings have actually been FULLY scouted in person?

[Paulie Walnuts]

The recruitment process has been a completely mixed bag

ALF and Obita were the McDermott old pals act which has been alright
Marcondes and Maolida was a right time right place during the winter training camp.

It seems to be the "Football Manager" stats approach that has screwed us in recent times. How many of these signings have actually been FULLY scouted in person?

Warnock said that Aberdeen signed players based on stats without ever watching them. Obviously that doesn’t mean we do, but it wouldn’t surprise me if most clubs our size done it.

[MKHIBEE]

100%.

Loads of threads on topics since Saturday but it all comes down to AMBITION.

Do we have the AMBITION to be top 3 ?

That means not putting up with bad results and making it clear to any manager bottom 6 is an instant sackable offence.

Hibs also need to face up and be obsessed with the Derby and want it as much as Hearts and maybe that may change our woeful Derby record.
Ross, Maloney, Hecky, Johnson possibly Montgomery, all sacked. We haven’t been putting up with bad results

[tonyrougier123]

The recruitment process has been a completely mixed bag

ALF and Obita were the McDermott old pals act which has been alright
Marcondes and Maolida was a right time right place during the winter training camp.

It seems to be the "Football Manager" stats approach that has screwed us in recent times. How many of these signings have actually been FULLY scouted in person?

It’s definitely part of the issue for me. Seeing what a player has mentally and how he engages within a team environment will never be available on spreadsheets. We should be in contact with loads of scouts and ex players about talent north and south of the border who watch players regularly.

[GreenCastle]

Ross, Maloney, Hecky, Johnson possibly Montgomery, all sacked. We haven’t been putting up with bad results

Ross - should have been given funds to strengthen before Europe - Doidge got injured and we started that season slowly - lack of ambition

Maloney and Monty - rookie managers - cheap options - lack of ambition

Johnson - don’t think he was our 1st choice and took 1 month to appoint.

Hecky - wasn’t a bad choice - but following Lennon was always going to be difficult

[Brizo]

How do we change the mentality around our club? If anyone knows the facts about actual financial gaps then please feel free to throw them at me. I'm going to use rangers as an example. If they finished outside the top 2 then the manager would be sacked this morning. If his replacement failed to finish in the top 2 he would be sacked also. Why is it different for us? Why are we debating keeping a manager that has finished well below where our resources should be? Future managers should have a performance clause with bottom 6 automatic release, until we stop accepting mediocrity we will continue to have it.

Our expectations should be consistently occupying the 3rd to 5th spots, with 3rd and 4th being success and 5th being the bare minimum. While teams like Killie and St Mirren this season ( or Motherwell and Dundee United previously ) will always have periods when they punch above their financial weight and get into those spots, our finances should ensure that we consistently occupy those 3rd to 5th positions.

Of course, there will be times when things conspire to have us in 6th spot but when it comes to mentality, achieving 6th place should never be a cause for "jubilation", the word Montgomery used to describe the feeling if we'd finished 6th. That strikes me as indicative of the wrong mentality and if that mentality is transmitted to the players it's little wonder so many of them have underperformed this season.

It's a mentality that needs to be set from the top and while our owners have been quick, and sometimes too quick, to pull the trigger, that decisive action hasn't been followed by the correct recruitment decisions. For those systemic failings, the Gordon family must not only acknowledge their failings but also find a new and different way of doing things. If that requires them to take advice from the new BK minority owners on changing the club's mentality, I hope they take it.

[Helensburghhibs]

Our expectations should be consistently occupying the 3rd to 5th spots, with 3rd and 4th being success and 5th being the bare minimum. While teams like Killie and St Mirren this season ( or Motherwell and Dundee United previously ) will always have periods when they punch above their financial weight and get into those spots, our finances should ensure that we consistently occupy those 3rd to 5th positions.

Of course, there will be times when things conspire to have us in 6th spot but when it comes to mentality, achieving 6th place should never be a cause for "jubilation", the word Montgomery used to describe the feeling if we'd finished 6th. That strikes me as indicative of the wrong mentality and if that mentality is transmitted to the players it's little wonder so many of them have underperformed this season.

It's a mentality that needs to be set from the top and while our owners have been quick, and sometimes too quick, to pull the trigger, that decisive action hasn't been followed by the correct recruitment decisions. For those systemic failings, the Gordon family must not only acknowledge their failings but also find a new and different way of doing things. If that requires them to take advice from the new BK minority owners on changing the club's mentality, I hope they take it.


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