new hate crime law=at football

[A Hi-Bee]

can we now report the huns and others for obnoxious sectarian singing.
the cops say they will follow up on every complaint?

thoughts?

[allezsauzee]

I feel that this law will be as effective at stopping sectarian signing was as VAR was at stopping refereeing decisions being biased in favour of the old firm.

[CentreLine]

can we now report the huns and others for obnoxious sectarian singing.
the cops say they will follow up on every complaint?

thoughts?

You would probably leave yourself open to being investigated for hating the rangers. 🤔

[LewysGot2]

can we now report the huns and others for obnoxious sectarian singing.
the cops say they will follow up on every complaint?

thoughts?

Bound to be a "vexatious complaint" 🤔😂

[Keith_M]

can we now report the huns and others for obnoxious sectarian singing.
the cops say they will follow up on every complaint?

thoughts?


Reported!

[BILLYHIBS]

Excuse me Mr Policeman that bad man over there just said he was up to his knees in my blood

Could you go and arrest him please ?

[gbhibby]

Better watch what we say about referees on here.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

can we now report the huns and others for obnoxious sectarian singing.
the cops say they will follow up on every complaint?

thoughts?

not gonna end well if reports that Police don’t have resources to cope with such hate crimes.

moral of the story seems to be if enough people do something then they chances are you can carry - grim thought.

[hibbie02]

I thought there was already a law about sectarianism.


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[Bostonhibby]

I thought there was already a law about sectarianism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProAye but Scotland was playing pretend sectarianism laws, this time we mean business. 40,000+ arrests at Ibrox coming up to show how serious we are.



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[PHeffernan]

I feel that this law will be as effective at stopping sectarian signing was as VAR was at stopping refereeing decisions being biased in favour of the old firm.

A new low!

[Albert Kidd 86’]

I have always believed and still do that there is a rotten core at the heart of rangers and celtic that will keep this sort of thing going for their own non football reasons. We are talking cold hard bigots who do not care about football, it is just an easy place to get traction for their agendas.

how do we stop it?

imho, it is a society problem, can a hate crime law help? I think no, as it will just make them feel even more “victimised” and entrenched, the rotten core will weaponise any criticism.

what Hibs have done is a good start, but the only thing that will really put an end to this is if rangers and celtic, come out with a joint statement conclusively condoning sectarian singing, and acting on that statement the first time it happens.

likely hood of that happening? Hmmmm…

i remember the real trigger that saw the beginning of the end of the “troubles” that both team’s support seem so enamoured with, was as simple as; a few VERY brave ladies, who had had enough,standing up to it when no one else would.

what Hibs have announced is not on the level of bravery of those women, but it is a start, the next step?- If people can actually meet the ones they are “hating on” and see first hand how their actions make others feel, that is a difficult but important one.

I overheard a couple of Motherwell fans at a concert last week, talking about hibs move and how one of them had not been to the footy for years due to the bigotry in the scottish game, but he was going to the game next week to show support for what Hibs did.

from acorns oak trees grow….

[Is It On....]

can we now report the huns and others for obnoxious sectarian singing.
the cops say they will follow up on every complaint?

thoughts?

If you report them they can say they feel offended and you will be prosecuted (because it's up to the authorities what is the real crime). The only good thing is JK Rowling actually taunting the authorities and daring them to arrest her for defending women's rights.

[degenerated]

Not sure the police will bother enforcing it when it comes to rangers games.

If they do though, they could always start with ally mccoist.

27798

[Ronniekirk]

Not sure the police will bother enforcing it when it comes to rangers games.

If they do though, they could always start with ally mccoist.

27798

I just don’t see it happening The Rangers seem to have infiltrated all organisations and think they can issue statements left right and centre if they feel aggrieved by another clubs actions or set of fans actions
But they don’t tolerate it against them and use all thier connections to try and nip anything in the bud

Freedom of Expression is something I support but should people feel free to express themselves by singing Bigoted songs about the past that have imo no place in modern football
The fact we as a society tolerate this ***** is beyond me
If we are reducing ticket allocation to this mob then surely it makes it easier to identify on camera those singing bigoted songs
They could then be dealt with by the Club making it clear they will no longer tolerate this sort of behaviour
But the directors are probably singing or humming along
And there in lies the problem There is not a willingness at the top of organisations to tackle this issue head on

[gbhibby]

Not sure the police will bother enforcing it when it comes to rangers games.

If they do though, they could always start with ally mccoist.

27798
What a stupid thing to say Mcoist, so he will be joining in with the Billy boys etc.

[JimBHibees]

What a stupid thing to say Mcoist, so he will be joining in with the Billy boys etc.

His comment sums up the problem right there. Won't be challenged though.

[JeMeSouviens]

Useful twitter thread by a Prof of criminal law (ironically given the context of this thread, called Mark Walters :greengrin ) on what the act does/doesn't do. Spoiler - practically nothing to justify the hoo ha surrounding it.

https://twitter.com/MarkaaWalters/status/1771244785321259123

[Victor]

How it will work:

Hibs fan- “officer those Rangers fans are singing songs about hating Catholics and wanting to be up to their knees in our blood.”

Police Officer - “what do you want me to do about it? Arrest everyone? We don’t have the resources.”

Rangers fan: “officer those Hibs fans have a banner with a symbol that says - ban the Orange Order and one of them called me the ‘H’ word.

Police Officer - Don’t worry we take these things seriously. We have cancelled all leave and formed an enquiry team. We will view all available CCTV footage and will have pictures of those responsible in every newspaper tomorrow.”

[Betty Boop]

You can bet your bottom dollar the 'Lizzies in a box' ditty will be reported.

[JimBHibees]

Useful twitter thread by a Prof of criminal law (ironically given the context of this thread, called Mark Walters :greengrin ) on what the act does/doesn't do. Spoiler - practically nothing to justify the hoo ha surrounding it.

https://twitter.com/MarkaaWalters/status/1771244785321259123

Yes the hoo haa is deliberate and no doubt politically motivated. All I seen while at supermarket this morning was the front page of the rags and Rowling daring police to arrest.

[ElginHibbie]

practically nothing to justify the hoo ha surrounding it.

But how else will people be able to perpetuate a culture war that they have made their whole identity/political stance?

[LewysGot2]

On Saturday an entire support joined in with their Build My Gallows nonsense. Nothing to do with football. Nothing to do with Scotland directly. I deliberately scanned all 4 stands to see how many - at glance - were joining in. After all, we're told it's a vocal minority. No surprise that the volume matched the physical signs of joining in - ie you could see the clapping along. Minority my bahookey. It was so loud and so continuous I can still hear it in my head like an ear worm. Obviously not happy about that but that's the reality. Unfortunately, our "they're only 16" hingers on minority are going to be used as deflector shields by The Rangers and the media. Until we self police that - and bizarrely some don't seem to see the issue - we'll never have any chance of challenging the bleeding obvious along the M8.

One daftie with a papal flag on or a few singing about a dead person on Saturday will wipe out, single handedly, 40,000 singing about fighting the IRA.

We're dealing with the masters of whitabootery

[DH1875]

Is the point here not that if you call someone a yam fud or a sheep sh***er or a soap dodger and sing about folks eating rats in weegie/gorgie slums then it could be reported as a hate crime?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Not sure the police will bother enforcing it when it comes to rangers games.

If they do though, they could always start with ally mccoist.

27798

Sally should stick to being a boy racer Rangers legend Ally McCoist in court after he's caught speeding twice in one day - Glasgow Live (https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/rangers-legend-ally-mccoist-court-27796196)

[ElginHibbie]

Is the point here not that if you call someone a yam fud or a sheep sh***er or a soap dodger and sing about folks eating rats in weegie/gorgie slums then it could be reported as a hate crime?

Don’t think any of those would fall under stirring up hatred against a protected group so you’ll be fine if that’s what you wanna do

[linlithgowhibbie]

Don’t think any of those would fall under stirring up hatred against a protected group so you’ll be fine if that’s what you wanna do

Don't think the new law covers geographical abuse so I think you can still call them weegie/gorgie huns, if you so wish!

[Moulin Yarns]

Useful twitter thread by a Prof of criminal law (ironically given the context of this thread, called Mark Walters :greengrin ) on what the act does/doesn't do. Spoiler - practically nothing to justify the hoo ha surrounding it.

https://twitter.com/MarkaaWalters/status/1771244785321259123

Thanks, I read that earlier and was going to post it but couldn't find it again.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yes the hoo haa is deliberate and no doubt politically motivated. All I seen while at supermarket this morning was the front page of the rags and Rowling daring police to arrest.

Jakey was reported to Northumberland police for constantly refering to India Willoughby as a man. It is recorded as a non crime hate event.

[Moulin Yarns]

Is the point here not that if you call someone a yam fud or a sheep sh***er or a soap dodger and sing about folks eating rats in weegie/gorgie slums then it could be reported as a hate crime?

Which group are being hated? Elderly? a race? Disabled? None of that constitutes what is coverd by the act.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Not sure the police will bother enforcing it when it comes to rangers games.

If they do though, they could always start with ally mccoist.

27798

He almost says that with a sense of pride. Which says it all about their fanbase really.

[silverhibee]

Not sure the police will bother enforcing it when it comes to rangers games.

If they do though, they could always start with ally mccoist.

27798

Ally has had the Glasgow polis in his back pocket since his playing days at hunvile.

[silverhibee]

Sally should stick to being a boy racer Rangers legend Ally McCoist in court after he's caught speeding twice in one day - Glasgow Live (https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/rangers-legend-ally-mccoist-court-27796196)

Obviously doesn’t have them in his back pocket anymore, we’re the offences in Scotland or engurland.

Has he learnt nothing from his son’s incident.

Hopefully he gets arrested as he enters Ipox by the polis for admitting he will be breaking the law at the game.

[One Day Soon]

Useful twitter thread by a Prof of criminal law (ironically given the context of this thread, called Mark Walters :greengrin ) on what the act does/doesn't do. Spoiler - practically nothing to justify the hoo ha surrounding it.

https://twitter.com/MarkaaWalters/status/1771244785321259123


The replies to his thread are at least as enlightening as his own observations.

Spoiler - this isn't just about the dry wording of the law, it's also about the unintended (as well as the very much intended) chilling consequences upon public expression. There's plenty to justify the hoo ha about it.

This thread needs to go to the Holy Ground ASAP.

[He's here!]

Jakey was reported to Northumberland police for constantly refering to India Willoughby as a man. It is recorded as a non crime hate event.

Nothing was recorded by police. Willoughby's complaint was effectively dismissed.

Re football, I'm unclear where the latest legislation leaves us with sectarian singing from Celtic and Rangers fans. The SG's Football Act, which appeared designed to address this issue, was repealed by every opposition party in 2018 and a judge's ruling was that hate crime such as this was already covered by existing legislation:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44307744

Does the new legislation take us any further towards addressing this issue?

[He's here!]

The replies to his thread are at least as enlightening as his own observations.

Spoiler - this isn't just about the dry wording of the law, it's also about the unintended (as well as the very much intended) chilling consequences upon public expression. There's plenty to justify the hoo ha about it.

This thread needs to go to the Holy Ground ASAP.

Spot on.

You're probably right about this being for another forum.

[Groathillgrump]

Spot on.

You're probably right about this being for another forum.

Why?

If the new law affects how we as supporters are allowed to behave in a football stadium it has every right to be debated on the main board.

[Betty Boop]

Why?

If the new law affects how we as supporters are allowed to behave in a football stadium it has every right to be debated on the main board.

Couldn't agree more .

[Chuck Rhoades]

Why?

If the new law affects how we as supporters are allowed to behave in a football stadium it has every right to be debated on the main board.

We should be debating the impact on our support then rather than focusing on another set of supporters’ behaviour. Stones and glasshouses come to mind.

[He's here!]

Why?

If the new law affects how we as supporters are allowed to behave in a football stadium it has every right to be debated on the main board.

My concern would be that when you see how many posters on here display a lack of knowledge of what this law means (no criticism intended, the vast majority of the Scotttish population, plus the hefty chunk of the police force yet to be trained up on it will have little idea of its implications) there's greater scope for people to inadvertently fall foul of it on a more widely populated forum, creating a bigger headache for admins.

[Stairway 2 7]

Jakey was reported to Northumberland police for constantly refering to India Willoughby as a man. It is recorded as a non crime hate event.

What is a non crime hate event. If its not a crime then why is it recorded. I'd call anyone whatever they wanted to be called personally, but surely people have the right to believe that men can't become women and say that.

I don't think more people will be prosecuted at all but more will be reported as being hateful based on someone's opinion what is hateful.

As for the football nothing will change its all a load of kidology they will still be calling us fenians en mass

[WhileTheChief..]

Useful twitter thread by a Prof of criminal law (ironically given the context of this thread, called Mark Walters :greengrin ) on what the act does/doesn't do. Spoiler - practically nothing to justify the hoo ha surrounding it.

https://twitter.com/MarkaaWalters/status/1771244785321259123

Reading that thread and all it does is make me think what's the point in it? Where is all the hatred that this is meant to stop??

9 cases in 10 years is one point he makes, 2 convictions that he's aware of is another.

I mean, it's hardly the biggest of issues if these are the numbers we're dealing with.

[CropleyWasGod]

Reading that thread and all it does is make me think what's the point in it? Where is all the hatred that this is meant to stop??

9 cases in 10 years is one point he makes, 2 convictions that he's aware of is another.

I mean, it's hardly the biggest of issues if these are the numbers we're dealing with.

For me, the law isn't all about punishing people, though. Deterrence from dodgy behaviour is a major aim of laws like this. If they can persuade people not to act in a certain way towards marginalised groups, then that can only be a good thing for those groups and society in general.

[WhileTheChief..]

For me, the law isn't all about punishing people, though. Deterrence from dodgy behaviour is a major aim of laws like this. If they can persuade people not to act in a certain way towards marginalised groups, then that can only be a good thing for those groups and society in general.

I get that, but am not convinced we need laws for this sort of thing.

It's not the law that stops people from going around being racist or homophobic, for example, it's common decency.

Or to put it another way, if laws were repealed, do you think we'd end up with people freely using the N word? No chance. It just wouldn't happen.

[CropleyWasGod]

I get that, but am not convinced we need laws for this sort of thing.

It's not the law that stops people from going around being racist or homophobic, for example, it's common decency.

Or to put it another way, if laws were repealed, do you think we'd end up with people freely using the N word? No chance. It just wouldn't happen.

That common decency, though, has evolved through a combination of social changes and legal measures.

It is a wider argument, though, to debate the extent to which the law should become involved in forcing those changes in attitudes. .... which is where you came in :greengrin

[He's here!]

What is a non crime hate event. If its not a crime then why is it recorded. I'd call anyone whatever they wanted to be called personally, but surely people have the right to believe that men can't become women and say that.

I don't think more people will be prosecuted at all but more will be reported as being hateful based on someone's opinion what is hateful.

As for the football nothing will change its all a load of kidology they will still be calling us fenians en mass

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68712471

Rowling has put that to a very early and very public test and the police have confirmed they won't be taking any action, illustrating that the bar for prosecution seems relatively high.

Credit to her for using her high profile to make an important point in relation to free speech and reassure those with less clout that they needn't fear a police visit for giving an accurate description of biological sex.

As you say, though, I'm not convinced we'll see much change when it comes to genuine offences relating to football supporters.

[Moulin Yarns]

My concern would be that when you see how many posters on here display a lack of knowledge of what this law means (no criticism intended, the vast majority of the Scotttish population, plus the hefty chunk of the police force yet to be trained up on it will have little idea of its implications) there's greater scope for people to inadvertently fall foul of it on a more widely populated forum, creating a bigger headache for admins.

I saw something from a legal person that said there were around 12 actual prosecutions in England since it became law there. The chances of falling foul from general peach is minimal. Having said that, I think JK rowling is stirring up hatred without breaking the law

[A Hi-Bee]

I saw something from a legal person that said there were around 12 actual prosecutions in England since it became law there. The chances of falling foul from general peach is minimal. Having said that, I think JK rowling is stirring up hatred without breaking the law

Not the same law in England.
I, have now come to the conclusion that I have no opinion that I would share one way or the other, ironic as this is a football forum dominated with opinions, perhaps the next stage is the work being done by the thought police. Fortunately they are still some years away from achieving this. :greengrin
More to the point will this have any effect on sectarian behaviour at Football grounds.

[Waxy]

We are Hibernian fc
We dont very much like hearts
And we tolerate Dundee

[Greencore]

Excuse me Mr Policeman that bad man over there just said he was up to his knees in my blood

Could you go and arrest him please ?

Basically 😂

[Hibrandenburg]

Excuse me Mr Policeman that bad man over there just said he was up to his knees in my blood

Could you go and arrest him please ?

Grass!

[snedzuk]

can we now report the huns and others for obnoxious sectarian singing.
the cops say they will follow up on every complaint?

thoughts?

From PS website

It’s important to report hate crime whether you are affected personally, or if you witness someone else being targeted. For example, you could be a friend, neighbour, family member, support worker or a passer-by.
You should tell the police if you think it happened because of disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity. It may even be a combination of these things. This is important as it tells us that it could be a hate crime.

You dont even have to go far if you cant be bothered with the online form, as theres a third party reporting centre on our doorstep:-



Milan Senior Welfare Organisation

Norton Park, 57 Albion Road, Edinburgh, EH7 5QY

0131 475 2307

[silverhibee]

Ally McCoist now not going to old firm game this weekend, spending time with his boy racer son.

[Moulin Yarns]

Ally McCoist now not going to old firm game this weekend, spending time with his boy racer son.

Damn, I was hoping a couple of Glasgows finest officers would be stood behind him all game.

[Islington Hibs]

We are Hibernian fc
We dont very much like hearts
And we tolerate Dundee

Brilliant! best comment of the day, no the year!

Say No Hearts fan in Georgie,
No pink bus shelter to sadden my eyes
No Dundee non binary and some St Midden high priests , sorry Mirren,
A few Raith beards
Every day is Ramadan/ Christmas Day/ Zoroaster's birthday (delete as appropriate)