Scottish (Rangers) Media

[DinkyTwo]

Glasgow Times, a relatively well known Glasgow media outlet are suggesting that Hibs will face disciplinary action for our X (Twitter) account posting "Who had 20 minutes" after Rangers were today awarded yet another penalty.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/24222314.hibs-facing-sfa-disciplinary-action-x-swipe-rangers-penalty/?fbclid=IwAR370zsVvZGLl9cWziPdgHpu_bwU2nEJvugoorQD--GfwdOG3RQGugirduE

If we didn't already know it, this is what we are up against.

Thousands of people will see this post within a few hours.

The institutional bias in this country towards anything Rangers is disgusting.

Can you imagine Edinburgh Live suggesting that any football club should be up in-front of the SFA, with clauses quoted from the SFA handbook, for something so innocuous?

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[Libby Hibby]

I’m glad it’s getting called out and the greater the exposure the better.

It’s really embarrassing that we all know that they will get a penalty at some point during a non OF game. No matter how soft. They will always get one.

[SteveHFC]

Hopefully we tell the SFA to **** off.

[007]

Ban the Twitter guy, maybe if we hire Nick De Marco we could get it down to 1 game and 1 suspended.

[gbhibby]

Glasgow Times, a relatively well known Glasgow media outlet are suggesting that Hibs will face disciplinary action for our X (Twitter) account posting "Who had 20 minutes" after Rangers were today awarded yet another penalty.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/24222314.hibs-facing-sfa-disciplinary-action-x-swipe-rangers-penalty/?fbclid=IwAR370zsVvZGLl9cWziPdgHpu_bwU2nEJvugoorQD--GfwdOG3RQGugirduE

If we didn't already know it, this is what we are up against.

Thousands of people will see this post within a few hours.

The institutional bias in this country towards anything Rangers is disgusting.

Can you imagine Edinburgh Live suggesting that any football club should be up in-front of the SFA, with clauses quoted from the SFA handbook, for something so innocuous?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk
They probably looked at the thread on here where we were guessing the minute of the game they would get a penalty. There is no strict liability and there is no criticism of the officials. Typical of the Weegie press.

[Rick Rude]

I’m glad it’s getting called out and the greater the exposure the better.

It’s really embarrassing that we all know that they will get a penalty at some point during a non OF game. No matter how soft. They will always get one.

Twitter is showing it as having 2m views so definitely got exposure!

[Jack]

They probably looked at the thread on here where we were guessing the minute of the game they would get a penalty. There is no strict liability and there is no criticism of the officials. Typical of the Weegie press.

I'd imagine most fans forums have a similar thread pre sevco.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Sportsound was a bit weird. Had a "fan" on post match. It was more like the guy was a guest and was in the studio with them given the sound quality. They were given a decent bit of airtime

[WeeRussell]

We haven’t explicitly said it’s anything to do with cheating or dodgy officiating. It’s a remark on the amount and frequency of penalties they get (against us), which can’t be denied.

Surely?

Maybe we’ll be asked to explain the comment, in the same way if a manager had said “they seem to get penalties every week” in a post match interview?

Anyway, I liked it.

[DinkyTwo]

We haven’t explicitly said it’s anything to do with cheating or dodgy officiating. It’s a remark on the amount and frequency of penalties they get (against us), which can’t be denied.

Surely?

Maybe we’ll be asked to explain the comment, in the same way if a manager had said “they seem to get penalties every week” in a post match interview?

Anyway, I liked it.I agree, there's nothing in it.

What's annoying though is a wide-reaching media company in this country taking offense and quoting multiple rules from the SFA that we've supposedly broken.

It's total and utter bias and shouldn't be tolerated.

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[MrSmith]

Glasgow Times, a relatively well known Glasgow media outlet are suggesting that Hibs will face disciplinary action for our X (Twitter) account posting "Who had 20 minutes" after Rangers were today awarded yet another penalty.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/24222314.hibs-facing-sfa-disciplinary-action-x-swipe-rangers-penalty/?fbclid=IwAR370zsVvZGLl9cWziPdgHpu_bwU2nEJvugoorQD--GfwdOG3RQGugirduE

If we didn't already know it, this is what we are up against.

Thousands of people will see this post within a few hours.

The institutional bias in this country towards anything Rangers is disgusting.

Can you imagine Edinburgh Live suggesting that any football club should be up in-front of the SFA, with clauses quoted from the SFA handbook, for something so innocuous?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Edinburgh Live is part of the Daily Record group so, wouldn’t trust one single thing they say.

[Criswell]

If Tavernier Pen is going to keep playing for Rangers for a few more years as penalty taker, I would suggest that Pele's 1000 goals record may be in some danger.

[cubehindthegoal]

Glasgow Times, a relatively well known Glasgow media outlet are suggesting that Hibs will face disciplinary action for our X (Twitter) account posting "Who had 20 minutes" after Rangers were today awarded yet another penalty.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/24222314.hibs-facing-sfa-disciplinary-action-x-swipe-rangers-penalty/?fbclid=IwAR370zsVvZGLl9cWziPdgHpu_bwU2nEJvugoorQD--GfwdOG3RQGugirduE

If we didn't already know it, this is what we are up against.

Thousands of people will see this post within a few hours.

The institutional bias in this country towards anything Rangers is disgusting.

Can you imagine Edinburgh Live suggesting that any football club should be up in-front of the SFA, with clauses quoted from the SFA handbook, for something so innocuous?

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Can’t wait for them to give the evidence that people were actually quoting prior to the match times they thought they would get a penalty … so the twitter quote is simply a response to true fact. Where’s the crime ? Because it was true ? lol

[McD]

I agree, there's nothing in it.

What's annoying though is a wide-reaching media company in this country taking offense and quoting multiple rules from the SFA that we've supposedly broken.

It's total and utter bias and shouldn't be tolerated.

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The same article quotes Clement as saying they would have had 4 except for Scott Wright’s boots apparently being too big - that’s about the same level of inferring incompetence of officials. The use of the word ‘apparently’ is implying the officials got it wrong

[WhileTheChief..]

Probably our best 'Tweet' since it became X.

Keep it up I say.

[LEaston87]

Good. Keep it up Hibs. Happy to set up a gofundme to pay the fines

[Northernhibee]

The same article quotes Clement as saying they would have had 4 except for Scott Wright’s boots apparently being too big - that’s about the same level of inferring incompetence of officials. The use of the word ‘apparently’ is implying the officials got it wrong

Encroachment was only given because it would have been impossible to spin as being debatable IMO. If it had been open to debate the goal would have swiftly been given I reckon.

[Eyrie]

I'd have preferred the tweet to reference the .net thread to be safe, but let's not get distracted here. The real issue is why fans of other teams expect the Huns to be given penalties every week when similar incidents do not result in penalties against the Huns.

[Dr What If?]

Anyone else think that if Hibs were to be disciplined it would long term be a good thing? Posters have already pointed out that the ratio of Rangers penalties for and against would in any other sport result in some form investigation. TV camera's add fuel as we are all able to see again and again what is and isn't given, add in VAR and even the most conservative viewer is starting to think something is up......is it corruption, favouritism, are betting syndicates involved? If we as a club are punished for daring to even shine the smallest amount of light on this then that just adds more fuel.
If there is something underhand at play then Hibs have just subtly said 'we are watching you'. A punishment sounds like a reaction from some increasingly nervous criminals.

[Dashing Bob S]

Anyone else think that if Hibs were to be disciplined it would long term be a good thing? Posters have already pointed out that the ratio of Rangers penalties for and against would in any other sport result in some form investigation. TV camera's add fuel as we are all able to see again and again what is and isn't given, add in VAR and even the most conservative viewer is starting to think something is up......is it corruption, favouritism, are betting syndicates involved? If we as a club are punished for daring to even shine the smallest amount of light on this then that just adds more fuel.
If there is something underhand at play then Hibs have just subtly said 'we are watching you'. A punishment sounds like a reaction from some increasingly nervous criminals.

Great post.

[007]

Anyone else think that if Hibs were to be disciplined it would long term be a good thing? Posters have already pointed out that the ratio of Rangers penalties for and against would in any other sport result in some form investigation. TV camera's add fuel as we are all able to see again and again what is and isn't given, add in VAR and even the most conservative viewer is starting to think something is up......is it corruption, favouritism, are betting syndicates involved? If we as a club are punished for daring to even shine the smallest amount of light on this then that just adds more fuel.
If there is something underhand at play then Hibs have just subtly said 'we are watching you'. A punishment sounds like a reaction from some increasingly nervous criminals.

And the case for Rangers is that they get more penalties because they are in the opposition box more, which doesn't stack up because Celtic don't get as many. Plus, an equally as important point are the non-penalties against.

[Alfred E Newman]

Hopefully we tell the SFA to **** off.

That should do it.

[Victor]

Good job they weren’t covering the Edinburgh Pantomime this year*´…penalty to Rangers’ was a running gag. It has entered the mainstream now. In fact it could be in the running for phrase of the year. Hard to see how it could breach SFA guidelines when it is a reality and not just an opinion.

[Betty Boop]

And the case for Rangers is that they get more penalties because they are in the opposition box more, which doesn't stack up because Celtic don't get as many. Plus, an equally as important point are the non-penalties against.

Celtic and Rangers have both had 13; penalties.

[offshorehibby]

We better watch out or the huns will be bringing another court injunction banning the term 'penalty rangers' as been offensive. :greengrin

[MKHIBEE]

Good job they weren’t covering the Edinburgh Pantomime this year*´…penalty to Rangers’ was a running gag. It has entered the mainstream now. In fact it could be in the running for phrase of the year. Hard to see how it could breach SFA guidelines when it is a reality and not just an opinion.

There is a horse called Penalty to Rangers which runs in America. Doesn’t seem to have done much though and hasn’t run for 5 months

[cabbageandribs1875]

We better watch out or the huns will be bringing another court injunction banning the term 'penalty rangers' as been offensive. :greengrin


and it will go the same way as the "Huns" being offensive case..... not guilty, Huns they are

[Carheenlea]

We better watch out or the huns will be bringing another court injunction banning the term 'penalty rangers' as been offensive. :greengrin

You may jest, but if any sanctions are to be coming our way for the tweet then the phrase will by definition, have been deemed to be of an offensive nature and its use will be discouraged across Scotland.

[BILLYHIBS]

Penalty for Rangers should be added to the Oxford English Dictionary beside Squeaky Bum Time

Might be worth double checking they have the correct definition of the word Hun ? 😀

[Eyrie]

Anyone else think that if Hibs were to be disciplined it would long term be a good thing? Posters have already pointed out that the ratio of Rangers penalties for and against would in any other sport result in some form investigation. TV camera's add fuel as we are all able to see again and again what is and isn't given, add in VAR and even the most conservative viewer is starting to think something is up......is it corruption, favouritism, are betting syndicates involved? If we as a club are punished for daring to even shine the smallest amount of light on this then that just adds more fuel.
If there is something underhand at play then Hibs have just subtly said 'we are watching you'. A punishment sounds like a reaction from some increasingly nervous criminals.

Who would do the investigating? The succulent lamb media? The SPFL which is afraid of upsetting the Ugly Sisters?

[HarpOnHibee]

"Penalty Rangers" will soon be "******* *******".

[007]

Celtic and Rangers have both had 13; penalties.

Not just talking about this season and also referred to penalties against.

https://i.ibb.co/DRQp1qh/Screenshot-20240331-193606-X.jpg (https://ibb.co/BCBNf1b)

[Since90+2]

Not just talking about this season and also referred to penalties against.

https://i.ibb.co/DRQp1qh/Screenshot-20240331-193606-X.jpg (https://ibb.co/BCBNf1b)

Incredible.

Rangers penalty against column is nearly 4 times higher than second highest.

[Hibeesforever]

Incredible.

Rangers penalty against column is nearly 4 times higher than second highest.

Thats embarrassing for our referees...blatant that something is up...only 3 against in 125 games!

[LaMotta]

Not just talking about this season and also referred to penalties against.

https://i.ibb.co/DRQp1qh/Screenshot-20240331-193606-X.jpg (https://ibb.co/BCBNf1b)

Wow. Where did you get that from??

[007]

Wow. Where did you get that from??

The app formerly known as Twitter.

https://twitter.com/RhebelRhebel/status/1721575320929685762?s=19

[LaMotta]

The app formerly known as Twitter.

https://twitter.com/RhebelRhebel/status/1721575320929685762?s=19

:aok:

[Irish_Steve]

Thats embarrassing for our referees...blatant that something is up...only 3 against in 125 games!

The only thing I think is up with our referees is that they are **** scared to give a contentious decision against either of the Toxic Twins but particularly Der Hun as it will result in death threats.

Just imagine it's the last round of matches and Celtc and the The Rangers are neck and neck in the title race. A referee gave a penalty to an opposition team at Ibrox, resulting in Rangers losing the game and handing the title to Celtc - there would be a riot.

[Libby Hibby]

The only thing I think is up with our referees is that they are **** scared to give a contentious decision against either of the Toxic Twins but particularly Der Hun as it will result in death threats.

Just imagine it's the last round of matches and Celtc and the The Rangers are neck and neck in the title race. A referee gave a penalty to an opposition team at Ibrox, resulting in Rangers losing the game and handing the title to Celtc - there would be a riot.

100% agree. However that scenario only happens due to the helping hands both get on a weekly basis.

If every team was reffed the same, the likelihood of it going down to the wire diminishes.

[Crazyhorse]

[QUOTE=007;7624227]Not just talking about this season and also referred to penalties against.

https://i.ibb.co/DRQp1qh/Screenshot-20240331-193606-X.jpg (https://ibb.co/BCBNf1b)

Sevco have conceded 16 penalties in the 8 years they have been in the SPFL since they were founded in 2012. Maybe it’s just beginners luck?

[Criswell]

I just don't believe these figures. The penalties against is certainly correct, but the penalties awarded being only 30 spanning over almost 4 years I find highly dubious. This works out about just over 7 penalties a year. You are having a laugh!

[matty_f]

https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

[PHeffernan]

https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

Thanks for posting that.
By far the best, most convincing and interesting assessment of this situation.
Morrison is a Celtic supporter but he came across well as in wanting to present an accurate picture.
The things I found most interesting about his presentation weren't actually the headline grabbing facts.

The downside, if there was one saw him only really interested in two clubs and the obsession with each other to the rest of us is a bore.
I fully expect a Rangers supporter to produce similarly credible stats with a different conclusion.

[MrSmith]

https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

thanks for this :) watched every minute of it as Alan Morrison presented some incredible - to say the least - stats.

[LewysGot2]

That's a great watch. Very well put together and both reasoned and well researched. There's a glut of podcasts in the Scottish football sphere but so many are frustrating because it's obvious folk haven't done the kind of evidence based planning we saw here- and that includes folk passing off having been at games they're dissecting when they clearly haven't from what they say and how they say it.
There's a market there, but probably producing something like this podcast needs the economy of scale of one of the Ugly Sisters fan base.

[matty_f]

That's a great watch. Very well put together and both reasoned and well researched. There's a glut of podcasts in the Scottish football sphere but so many are frustrating because it's obvious folk haven't done the kind of evidence based planning we saw here- and that includes folk passing off having been at games they're dissecting when they clearly haven't from what they say and how they say it.
There's a market there, but probably producing something like this podcast needs the economy of scale of one of the Ugly Sisters fan base.

You would need time and money to put that out, the ACSOM podcast appear to have that.

Poor show if folk pretend they've been at the games though, no harm in being honest and saying you've watched at home or only seen the highlights, just have to adapt to that rather than pretending you went.

[LewysGot2]

You would need time and money to put that out, the ACSOM podcast appear to have that.

Poor show if folk pretend they've been at the games though, no harm in being honest and saying you've watched at home or only seen the highlights, just have to adapt to that rather than pretending you went.

Open Goal must have a budget but get things spectacularly wrong at times with lots of Weegiecentric drivel and old pals act talking over each other loudly in indecipherable squwaks.all about the Glasgow two, so it is. Guess they're appealing to their Weegiecentric market. Yet, when Si Ferry does his more considered 1:1 things they can, at times, be very good.

Fans led podcasts can be great for promoting lower league stuff and wee club stuff - like Blair McNally and the English boy that do more general stuff. However, they're still often lacking in proper research (especially the former) and it can be irksome. I think McNally did something on the derby this season saying Hibs hadn't beaten the other lot for x years. Except less then 12 months ago obviously Blair...but I think he'd maybe missed out "at Tynecastle" which would have made his blethering more accurate. Just poor awareness and research. It makes you start to question the accuracy of everything that is in the podcasts if something that simple is wrong.

I think the authenticity of things comes through when folk have actually been at the game - which is why JBs match reports and the Just Backs on the Bounce are appreciated even if we don't concur with the opinions.

[A Hi-Bee]

[QUOTE=007;7624227]Not just talking about this season and also referred to penalties against.

https://i.ibb.co/DRQp1qh/Screenshot-20240331-193606-X.jpg (https://ibb.co/BCBNf1b)

Sevco have conceded 16 penalties in the 8 years they have been in the SPFL since they were founded in 2012. Maybe it’s just beginners luck?

Naw, that is clearly wrong and this is no April Fool's according to the bbc website today, as follows- 82 pens in the last seven years given to them. It beggars belief.

From 82 attempts, Tavernier has converted 65 penalties, not including those taken in shootouts.
That gives the Rangers skipper a 79% scoring rate from the spot, lower than Alexander's 90%, but fewer of Tavernier's tally overall have been penalties.
Tavernier started taking spot-kicks at Ibrox in 2017 and has barely looked back. He took a break from penalty duty in 2019-20 but was back on spot-kicks the following campaign as Rangers won the Scottish Premiership for the first time in 10 years.
This season, 13 of his 22 goals have been penalties but he did have one saved prior to breaking the deadlock against Hibs on Saturday.

[Onion]

Hopefully we tell the SFA to **** off.

Nah, we can just swap apologies next time we meet. Suspect a few more errors coming out way soon.

[CentreLine]

An hour and a quarter viewing and didn’t fall asleep. Says it all, this was a fascinating and well put together analysis. What was immediately striking was the analyst said he had offered it to various main stream outlets and was told by one journalist that there were subject they could not touch for “commercial” reasons.
There is a scandal here yet our “investigative journalists” will not touch it.

[JimBHibees]

An hour and a quarter viewing and didn’t fall asleep. Says it all, this was a fascinating and well put together analysis. What was immediately striking was the analyst said he had offered it to various main stream outlets and was told by one journalist that there were subject they could not touch for “commercial” reasons.
There is a scandal here yet our “investigative journalists” will not touch it.

Absolutely spot on

[JimBHibees]

https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

Watched it really interesting stats and reflects what is the perceived view. Yet refs are fair and impartial apparently.

[Kato]

Crawford Allan's name popping up quite a bit as his appointment coincides with the stats starting to favour "you know who" more than usual.

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[LewysGot2]

Crawford Allan's name popping up quite a bit as his appointment coincides with the stats starting to favour "you know who" more than usual.

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Found that bit a little verging on the nudge nudge wink wink side to be honest. A few other things happened in the same period like Gerrard arriving in Scotland and them being in the top flight again, trying to stop ten in a row. There's no doubt referees will have individually been intimidated/impressed/influenced by the fact a world football name was in our pond. Like a few folk on here have said, because in work or through childhood know or knew C Allan, he's always been an Aberdeen fan.

One thing that's gone through my mind though is Crawford Allan actually being an outlier himself in a counterintuitive way.

How many Grade 1 Edinburgh refs any more?
Can't think of any. Maybe I'm just not paying attention enough.

However, the ghost of the H Dallas regime at the SFA lingers long. His son, Lanarkshire, VAR honcho. Beaton, Lanarkshire. Lots of others Lanarkshire or Greater Glasgow. Think Collum is Lanarkshire too. The power base seems to be a bunker just outside Eurocentral.

What if Crawford Allan has actually not really been influential in the way we might perceive he ought to be? Looks like the power base is as its always been...

[Kato]

Found that bit a little verging on the nudge nudge wink wink side to be honest. A few other things happened in the same period like Gerrard arriving in Scotland and them being in the top flight again, trying to stop ten in a row. There's no doubt referees will have individually been intimidated/impressed/influenced by the fact a world football name was in our pond. Like a few folk on here have said, because in work or through childhood know or knew C Allan, he's always been an Aberdeen fan.

One thing that's gone through my mind though is Crawford Allan actually being an outlier himself in a counterintuitive way.

How many Grade 1 Edinburgh refs any more?
Can't think of any. Maybe I'm just not paying attention enough.

However, the ghost of the H Dallas regime at the SFA lingers long. His son, Lanarkshire, VAR honcho. Beaton, Lanarkshire. Lots of others Lanarkshire or Greater Glasgow. Think Collum is Lanarkshire too. The power base seems to be a bunker just outside Eurocentral.

What if Crawford Allan has actually not really been influential in the way we might perceive he ought to be? Looks like the power base is as its always been...

Fact is though, regardless of Gerrard's arrival or how Allan has been perceived, he oversaw an increase in "leanings" towards the Rangers when is came to crucial decisions being awarded. Whether he is culpable or a chocolate teapot is by the by.

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[matty_f]

Fact is though, regardless of Gerrard's arrival or how Allan has been perceived, he oversaw an increase in "leanings" towards the Rangers when is came to crucial decisions being awarded. Whether he is culpable or a chocolate teapot is by the by.

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Allan is perhaps in a position where he had facilitated the bias without engineering it - it may simply be that he hasn't had the means or the will to address it and so it's been allowed to grow unchecked - bad things happen when good people say nothing, kind of thing.

There is bound to be internal politics at play as well, he'll need to keep the referees onside with him, and so it's a difficult conversation to have if you're going to effectively call your employees cheats or incompetent.

He'll not be bothered about it now that he's leaving but his successor should be pulling in a couple of the senior referees (who hold down good day jobs), present them with the data and ask them to do an investigation into why there is one club that consistently sits as an outlier and ask them for recommendations as to how to address that.

It's an easy way to say they have a problem without blaming anyone and making the referees accountable for identifying the cause and the solution.

[LewysGot2]

Allan is perhaps in a position where he had facilitated the bias without engineering it - it may simply be that he hasn't had the means or the will to address it and so it's been allowed to grow unchecked - bad things happen when good people say nothing, kind of thing.

There is bound to be internal politics at play as well, he'll need to keep the referees onside with him, and so it's a difficult conversation to have if you're going to effectively call your employees cheats or incompetent.

He'll not be bothered about it now that he's leaving but his successor should be pulling in a couple of the senior referees (who hold down good day jobs), present them with the data and ask them to do an investigation into why there is one club that consistently sits as an outlier and ask them for recommendations as to how to address that.

It's an easy way to say they have a problem without blaming anyone and making the referees accountable for identifying the cause and the solution.

Think this isn't unfair. The power very likely isn't with him despite the concept that it ought to. Where are his allies to be found if all other infrastructure and positions of influence are based elsewhere.

I'd be asking serious questions as to how, now more than ever, there seem only to be Grade 1 officials from a small radius around one place. No Rowbothams, George Smiths or Bob Valentines coming through anywhere by the looks of it.

I think Bobby Madden leaving the SFA might be of interest, too. Might just have been to try and pursue a full time refereeing career...but mibbes naw?

[WhileTheChief..]

Any comment from Hibs or any other clubs’ officials on this?

If it’s so blatant you’d have thought someone might mention it.

[cabbageandribs1875]

oh oh BrotherJohn beaton referee for sevco v sellick game

[HoboHarry]

oh oh BrotherJohn beaton referee for sevco v sellick game
Less than a week after Rodgers was punished for openly criticizing Beaton, the refereeing body have doubled down and appointed him for the next derby. They don't care at this point, they are a law unto themselves and are openly taking the piss. All this after Crawford Allan saying there needs to be less scrutiny on refs, they are almost daring Celtic to start a war. I hope DD at Celtic does just that.

[JimBHibees]

Allan is perhaps in a position where he had facilitated the bias without engineering it - it may simply be that he hasn't had the means or the will to address it and so it's been allowed to grow unchecked - bad things happen when good people say nothing, kind of thing.

There is bound to be internal politics at play as well, he'll need to keep the referees onside with him, and so it's a difficult conversation to have if you're going to effectively call your employees cheats or incompetent.

He'll not be bothered about it now that he's leaving but his successor should be pulling in a couple of the senior referees (who hold down good day jobs), present them with the data and ask them to do an investigation into why there is one club that consistently sits as an outlier and ask them for recommendations as to how to address that.

It's an easy way to say they have a problem without blaming anyone and making the referees accountable for identifying the cause and the solution.

Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

[JimBHibees]

oh oh BrotherJohn beaton referee for sevco v sellick game

Interesting appointment

[Victor]

Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

I keep asking the same question. If there isn’t then one should be set up. No body should be above criticism and complaint.


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[babahibs]

oh oh BrotherJohn beaton referee for sevco v sellick game

Hunbelievable (not really).

[ancient hibee]

Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

At one time referees were marked by clubs at the end of games. Think it was stopped when it was obvious that marks depended more on game results than refs performance.

[Joe6-2]

Interesting appointment

You couldn’t make it up

[Joe6-2]

Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

It’s like a dictatorship, clubs literally banned from saying anything about referees

[hibsbollah]

https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

“Impossible to print the findings in Scotland because of commercial considerations “ says a well known media source. Thats why its on a celtic fans youtube not in the MSM.

[Smartie]

“Impossible to print the findings in Scotland because of commercial considerations “ says a well known media source. Thats why its on a celtic fans youtube not in the MSM.

I can’t pretend I’m not fairly depressed about all things Scottish at the moment but that is a particularly bleak sentiment being expressed.

Makes sense though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

“Impossible to print the findings in Scotland because of commercial considerations “ says a well known media source. Thats why its on a celtic fans youtube not in the MSM.

Exactly. It’s not worth the hassle basically - a proper investigative journalist would be all over this. The problem they have is the same as the referees - go and do their job properly and they get hounded, their life not worth living due to the bullying they’d get.

[hibsbollah]

I can’t pretend I’m not fairly depressed about all things Scottish at the moment but that is a particularly bleak sentiment being expressed.

Makes sense though.

One thing i particularly like in the ACSOM video is the expected points analysis of a red card decision or penalty by the yorkshire whistler account. Ive often thought that even the ridiculous red card penalty stats that the likes of Craig Thomson had with us vs hearts for example, would be even more pronounced if the ‘sympathy pen’, when youre losing 4-0 in the 90th minute and the ref FInALLY gives you something after screwing you over all game, was taken into account by some sort of weighting. Expected points per decision helps to do this.

[Hibernian Verse]

Less than a week after Rodgers was punished for openly criticizing Beaton, the refereeing body have doubled down and appointed him for the next derby. They don't care at this point, they are a law unto themselves and are openly taking the piss. All this after Crawford Allan saying there needs to be less scrutiny on refs, they are almost daring Celtic to start a war. I hope DD at Celtic does just that.

We can't complain that Rangers have an influence on refereeing and then complain that the Celtic manager hasn't managed to influence the appointment?

[hibsbollah]

Average amount of times a team enters the opposition box before a penalty is awarded to them, by opponent;

Hibs 115 times
Celtic 142 times
Rangers 372 times.

Measured between 2021-24, over 100 games.
(Remember, this is an average, so the fact rangers may be in an opponent’s box more often is irrelevant to the unbalanced results).

[snedzuk]

Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

Yeah. The performance review is carried out during the goat sacrificing.

[Gloucester Hibs]

Average amount of times a team enters the opposition box before a penalty is awarded, by opponent;

Hibs 115 times
Celtic 142 times
Rangers 372 times.

Measured between 2021-24, over 100 games.
(Remember, this is an average, so the fact rangers may be in an opponent’s box more often is irrelevant to the unbalanced results).

That's a good one, as is the average number of fouls committed to cards awarded. Sevco an outlier on that too. You just need to look at the crime count stats from our last 2 games v them. I think on Saturday they committed double the number of fouls yet received the same number of yellow cards.

[hibsbollah]

That's a good one, as is the average number of fouls committed to cards awarded. Sevco an outlier on that too. You just need to look at the crime count stats from our last 2 games v them. I think on Saturday they committed double the number of fouls yet received the same number of yellow cards.

I thought hard about that one. Perhaps the nature of the type of foul Rangers or Celtic give up explains that? (As the man said, high quality teams play high % possession (celtc 68% ran 62%)normally means high degree of press in the opposition end so perhaps more mundane breakup the play type fouls so less bookings? But no i dont think so, in the modern game bookings are given just as much, or even more, for the sly tug stopping a breakaway in transition than a defender sliding in missing a tackle in his own half.

When you try to find mitigation on some of these stats there just arent any.

[JimBHibees]

I thought hard about that one. Perhaps the nature of the type of foul Rangers or Celtic give up explains that? (As the man said, high quality teams play high % possession (celtc 68% ran 62%)normally means high degree of press in the opposition end so perhaps more mundane breakup the play type fouls so less bookings? But no i dont think so, in the modern game bookings are given just as much, or even more, for the sly tug stopping a breakaway in transition than a defender sliding in missing a tackle in his own half.

When you try to find mitigation on some of these stats there just arent any.

Totally agree there simply is not any justification for the numbers other than two teams treated differently and one team given incredible latitude. It is excellent to see the analysis over a number of seasons and also the use of a completely neutral pro referee with no skin in the game so to speak. Personally have never seen it as bad as it has been since they came back into the league. Something fundamentally stinks that is for sure.

[Hibby70]

Average amount of times a team enters the opposition box before a penalty is awarded, by opponent;

Hibs 115 times
Celtic 142 times
Rangers 372 times.

Measured between 2021-24, over 100 games.
(Remember, this is an average, so the fact rangers may be in an opponent’s box more often is irrelevant to the unbalanced results).

Is there a full list for this ?

[JimBHibees]

Is there a full list for this ?

It is in the podcast Matty linked to earlier in thread

[hibsbollah]

Is there a full list for this ?

33mins into the link. Hibs come out 2nd most likely to concede a penalty based on box entry, behind only Aberdeen. But the significant stat is Rangers being way way beyond any other team at the other end of the scale.

[Hibby70]

Thanks, will give it a listen. Would be good to get a full copy of his data somehow.

[CentreLine]

Thanks, will give it a listen. Would be good to get a full copy of his data somehow.

Your wish is answered. All the stats are displayed during the podcast. It really is well put together.

[Jones28]

https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

:agree:

Agree with all this, superb analysis.

The Celtic-flavoured delivery is still quite hard to listen to though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

:agree:

Agree with all this, superb analysis.

The Celtic-flavoured delivery is still quite hard to listen to though.

The dedication to calling them “the” rangers is exceptional.

[Jones28]

The dedication to calling them “the” rangers is exceptional.

It really is, I think it might be the most tiresome piece of "banter" we've ever seen, it's up there with spoon-burners for me.

[Rumble de Thump]

It really is, I think it might be the most tiresome piece of "banter" we've ever seen, it's up there with spoon-burners for me.

More tiresome than people calling them 'Rangers'?

[Jones28]

More tiresome than people calling them 'Rangers'?

I'd rather not have to call them anything in all honesty.

[Ringothedog]

It really is, I think it might be the most tiresome piece of "banter" we've ever seen, it's up there with spoon-burners for me.

Do their supporters not use the phrase “The Rangers” when asked what team they support? A bit like me when I say I support “The Hibs” when asked the question. I really do not see the issue as there are plenty worse names that club and it’s followers could be called

[hibsbollah]

Do their supporters not use the phrase “The Rangers” when asked what team they support? A bit like me when I say I support “The Hibs” when asked the question. I really do not see the issue as there are plenty worse names that club and it’s followers could be called

:agree: when theres a deadly serious subject to be discussed instead. Call them currants, zombies, TEITR if you like, pure distraction and irrelevant.

[Jones28]

Do their supporters not use the phrase “The Rangers” when asked what team they support? A bit like me when I say I support “The Hibs” when asked the question. I really do not see the issue as there are plenty worse names that club and it’s followers could be called

Nah of course, it's a very trivial matter.

[Jones28]

:agree: When theres a deadly serious subject to be discussed instead. Call them currants, zombies, teitr if you like, pure distraction and irrelevant.

tietr?

[hibsbollah]

The elephant in the room :aok:

[Jones28]

The elephant in the room :aok:

:aok:

[Aldoo]

https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

From what I’ve listened to so far, it is a very interesting analysis of a well known problem.

BUT …

The one thing I can’t get my head around is if there is an institutional bias for the rangers then why does that institutional bias not ensure that the rangers only rival for the title, Celtic, is consistently denied to the same degree that the rangers benefit ?

If the institutionsal bias , unconscious or not , is to help the Rangers then why do Celtic get two bizarre penalties against at ER in Feb, why was Boyles trip in the box in the same game not even given a second look? There was nothing pro Rangers in that game.

Yes, the numbers stack heavily in the rangers favour but to me this is a an Old Firm issue and not just about the rangers.

[A Hi-Bee]

From what I’ve listened to so far, it is a very interesting analysis of a well known problem.

BUT …

The one thing I can’t get my head around is if there is an institutional bias for the rangers then why does that institutional bias not ensure that the rangers only rival for the title, Celtic, is consistently denied to the same degree that the rangers benefit ?

If the institutionsal bias , unconscious or not , is to help the Rangers then why do Celtic get two bizarre penalties against at ER in Feb, why was Boyles trip in the box in the same game not even given a second look? There was nothing pro Rangers in that game.

Yes, the numbers stack heavily in the rangers favour but to me this is a an Old Firm issue and not just about the rangers.

Two ***** of the same cheek, just with one a bit more biased than the other, thats the way it is in Scotland.

[Jones28]

From what I’ve listened to so far, it is a very interesting analysis of a well known problem.

BUT …

The one thing I can’t get my head around is if there is an institutional bias for the rangers then why does that institutional bias not ensure that the rangers only rival for the title, Celtic, is consistently denied to the same degree that the rangers benefit ?

If the institutionsal bias , unconscious or not , is to help the Rangers then why do Celtic get two bizarre penalties against at ER in Feb, why was Boyles trip in the box in the same game not even given a second look? There was nothing pro Rangers in that game.

Yes, the numbers stack heavily in the rangers favour but to me this is a an Old Firm issue and not just about the rangers.

:agree:

I tried to not see their total disregard for the fact that they also are treated differently to the rest of Scottish football but all along I was thinking "what about you's?"

[Pedantic_Hibee]

The biggest thing for me is that, when presented with the data which is undeniable, the MSM don’t want to report on it in case it upsets their readership. That is absolutely staggering. They’re all in on it.

[Hibiza]

About time the Sevco penalties for / not against was brought to the fore .

[Salisbury Hibby]

I thought the phrase "Little Motherwell" was particularly nauseating.

Some Celtic Fans make my skin crawl.

[CentreLine]

From what I’ve listened to so far, it is a very interesting analysis of a well known problem.

BUT …

The one thing I can’t get my head around is if there is an institutional bias for the rangers then why does that institutional bias not ensure that the rangers only rival for the title, Celtic, is consistently denied to the same degree that the rangers benefit ?

If the institutionsal bias , unconscious or not , is to help the Rangers then why do Celtic get two bizarre penalties against at ER in Feb, why was Boyles trip in the box in the same game not even given a second look? There was nothing pro Rangers in that game.

Yes, the numbers stack heavily in the rangers favour but to me this is a an Old Firm issue and not just about the rangers.

I think, as you listen further, you will find that the only outlier is rangers in every category. The averages are probably, artificially, a little high due to the rangers figures. If you took the rangers figures out Celtic would probably show above average but not nearly to the remarkable extent that rangers are. It is a staggering piece of research with only one “winner”.

Two cheeks they may be but only one shows up, well out of the expected curve, on this occasion, not even close to the other cheek. Utterly outrageous that one of our media outlets had not, at least checked the voracity of these figures and run with the story.

[hibsbollah]

Two ***** of the same cheek, just with one a bit more biased than the other, thats the way it is in Scotland.

I think theres different levels of bias/favouritism and corruption. Theres a power dynamic favouritism where both teams benefit, probably partly refs scared to get a bad review in the weedgie press and not to get a brick through their lanarkshire window. Similar big team favouritism happens to a certain extent in most countries. Then theres a specifically anti celtic thing. Doesnt change the fact the rangers are the ones getting the bulk of the decisions.


Reform the refs system and sort it out, regardless.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I find it interesting that Rangers complain about a postponement and now we get hourly updates on pitch inspections from that particular club from Thursday tea-time.

[007]

https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

Haven't listened to it yet but it looks like this might be a part 2.

https://www.youtube.com/live/zPTRBDgf2hg?si=fvNGOlfBEPG0Nqn3

[cubehindthegoal]

Thanks for posting that.
By far the best, most convincing and interesting assessment of this situation.
Morrison is a Celtic supporter but he came across well as in wanting to present an accurate picture.
The things I found most interesting about his presentation weren't actually the headline grabbing facts.

The downside, if there was one saw him only really interested in two clubs and the obsession with each other to the rest of us is a bore.
I fully expect a Rangers supporter to produce similarly credible stats with a different conclusion.

Interesting viewpoint. Did you find similarly. credible stats with a different viewpoint yourself, or was that just conjecture … from someone who is not “a Rangers (capitalised, lol) supporter”… interesting angle ..thanks for posting that.

[PHeffernan]

Haven't listened to it yet but it looks like this might be a part 2.

https://www.youtube.com/live/zPTRBDgf2hg?si=fvNGOlfBEPG0Nqn3

Not part 2, dinnae bother listening unless you want to hear an hour of pathetic Cellik greetin'

[Bridge hibs]

Guy from the bank just called me about something and while talking he said did you know that last year over 75% of payments were contactless and I responded, mate that’s **** all, over 95% of rangers penalties were the same 🫨

[Phil MaGlass]

Guy from the bank just called me about something and while talking he said did you know that last year over 75% of payments were contactless and I responded, mate that’s **** all, over 95% of rangers penalties were the same 🫨

Hahaha, ive just copied oasted that to mates, funny man