Referees That Are Not Allowed To Referee The Old Firm

[Hibernian Verse]

A long thread title, however why is more not made of this. Time after time we are subjected to referees that are deemed not good enough to referee Celtic or Rangers matches.

Is this common practice in other leagues? Is it in the interest of sporting integrity? Have Hibs brought this up with Crawford Allan?

[flash]

A long thread title, however why is more not made of this. Time after time we are subjected to referees that are deemed not good enough to referee Celtic or Rangers matches.

Is this common practice in other leagues? Is it in the interest of sporting integrity? Have Hibs brought this up with Crawford Allan?
This is possibly the biggest scandal of all.

[Paulie Walnuts]

What’s the deal with this? Been mentioned a few times but I pay little attention to who’s who referee wise.

How many times have we had last nights ref? Not asking for specific amounts necessarily, more just has it been one or two or quite a lot :greengrin

[Hibernian Verse]

What’s the deal with this? Been mentioned a few times but I pay little attention to who’s who referee wise.

How many times have we had last nights ref? Not asking for specific amounts necessarily, more just has it been one or two or quite a lot :greengrin

First case in point is Craig Napier https://www.whoscored.com/Referees/4040/Show/Craig-Napier

He has never refereed the Old Firm.

David Munro last night has refereed Celtic 3 times and Rangers once this season, he has been trusted at Celtic Park once but never at Ibrox.

Grant Irvine has never been allowed to referee Rangers but has refereed every other team in the last calendar year - https://www.whoscored.com/Referees/4029/Show/Grant-Irvine

[Jones28]

IMO referees should be in charge of teams a set number of times per season. Canny be that hard to organise surely?

Thats the only way you get fairly distributed games amongst the "levels" of referee.

Cup finals are then reserved for top performing refs.

[flash]

Also you have guys doing VAR who are junior to the referee and seem reluctant to ever question them.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It’s almost as if in every aspect there is no level playing field.

[Lago]

A long thread title, however why is more not made of this. Time after time we are subjected to referees that are deemed not good enough to referee Celtic or Rangers matches.

Is this common practice in other leagues? Is it in the interest of sporting integrity? Have Hibs brought this up with Crawford Allan?
Well if this true, then effectively we have a 2 tier refereeing system in Scotland, and teams other than the OF are being use as training material for younger referees. This is wrong they are either deemed fit to take charge of all top flight games or none.

[Paulie Walnuts]

First case in point is Craig Napier https://www.whoscored.com/Referees/4040/Show/Craig-Napier

He has never refereed the Old Firm.

David Munro last night has refereed Celtic 3 times and Rangers once this season, he has been trusted at Celtic Park once but never at Ibrox.

Grant Irvine has never been allowed to referee Rangers but has refereed every other team in the last calendar year - https://www.whoscored.com/Referees/4029/Show/Grant-Irvine

Cheers.

Agree with Jones28. Referees should be evenly distributed around the teams.

[GreenCastle]

IMO referees should be in charge of teams a set number of times per season. Canny be that hard to organise surely?

Thats the only way you get fairly distributed games amongst the "levels" of referee.

Cup finals are then reserved for top performing refs.

100%

You could also say x2 refs from each part of the country. Seems lots od West Coast based refs.

At the end of the day we want the best for the job and that shouldn’t just be Scottish / local refs.

The other questions…

Why do Rangers and Celtic never play each other 1st game of the season?

Why does Hampden have set ends / home ends for Rangers and Celtic ?

[Carheenlea]

Refereeing in Scotland presents the extra challenge of having different rules for Rangers and Celtc than the rest when it comes to making decisions during games, and with such a tight title race and Rangers arranging an emergency summit after the only erroneous call that went against them this season, you can understand why the old firm referee pool is required to be kept smaller with any more “errors” being deemed unthinkable at this stage of the season.

Basically referees need to “know the score” hence why some are kept at arms length for now. It’s nothing to do with perceived ability or experience.

[LaMotta]

Also you have guys doing VAR who are junior to the referee and seem reluctant to ever question them.

:agree:

Should be the other way round.

[Jones28]

100%

You could also say x2 refs from each part of the country. Seems lots od West Coast based refs.

At the end of the day we want the best for the job and that shouldn’t just be Scottish / local refs.

The other questions…

Why do Rangers and Celtic never play each other 1st game of the season?

Why does Hampden have set ends / home ends for Rangers and Celtic ?

I agree with the sentiment.

Only thing with a geographical quota like that is that sub-standard (I know, I know how could it get any worse) referees would get fast tracked because they're from the Highlands/Borders/Aberdeenshire etc which could possibly be even worse.

[Jones28]

:agree:

Should be the other way round.

Agree with this, VAR officials should be older guys who have heaps of experience and be on a par with the on-field ref.

The dynamic should be different IMO, the impression I get is that the on field ref has an ego to protect.

[LaMotta]

Agree with this, VAR officials should be older guys who have heaps of experience and be on a par with the on-field ref.

The dynamic should be different IMO, the impression I get is that the on field ref has an ego to protect.

:agree: look at Clancy v Hearts.

[overdrive]

Also you have guys doing VAR who are junior to the referee and seem reluctant to ever question them.

There's an episode of the Sacked in the Morning podcast where they have Jeff Winter the ex-EPL referee on it. He made a similar point although I think it was the opposite way round, i.e. if a more senior referee was on VAR but the principal is the same. He was using it as an example of why the referees rarely stick with the on-field decision when they go over to the TV. He likened it to someone new and inexperienced questioning something a boss or more senior colleague was doing in an office environment. You'd possibly be intimidated to do that.

We also have the situation in Scotland where we have two referees who now exclusively do VAR - Dallas and Aitken - and the unspoken reason for that is they are even worse than the lot who actually still referee on the pitch.

[ancient hibee]

The ref on the field should be the one making the decisions.If he’s wrong it should be corrected by VAR with the ref agreeing to change his decision. The Laws of the game state that the ref makes the final decision.

[ballengeich]

Also you have guys doing VAR who are junior to the referee and seem reluctant to ever question them.
Could recently retired refs take the VAR jobs? The fixed retiral age means that some who can still do a job get forced out when they'd like to continue contributing. Sitting watching screens doesn't require the fitness levels needed by the men on the park and it would free up a few refs for doing the actual on-field work where there's difficulties in getting enough people.

The same argument could be applied to the fourth officials.

[Sylar]

Amazes me Nick Walsh is allowed to referee Old Firm games. He’s not the worst referee by any stretch, but a former ST holder at Parkhead!

[matty_f]

https://x.com/francoisplateau/status/1769120571395015084?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A

Not Scotland, but for the questions on why referees would favour Rangers or Celtic (or not favour Hibs), this is a thread with examples of Ferguson's influence over referees when he was at Manchester United.

Rangers and Celtic have that influence here.

[MWHIBBIES]

https://x.com/francoisplateau/status/1769120571395015084?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A

Not Scotland, but for the questions on why referees would favour Rangers or Celtic (or not favour Hibs), this is a thread with examples of Ferguson's influence over referees when he was at Manchester United.

Rangers and Celtic have that influence here.

Pretty vile honestly. Questions should be asked about all those titles United won.

The performance by Mike Riley to end Arsenals 49 game run was disgraceful.

[Broxburn Greens]

Could recently retired refs take the VAR jobs? The fixed retiral age means that some who can still do a job get forced out when they'd like to continue contributing. Sitting watching screens doesn't require the fitness levels needed by the men on the park and it would free up a few refs for doing the actual on-field work where there's difficulties in getting enough people.

The same argument could be applied to the fourth officials.

Sorry but that’s far too sensible an idea for Scottish football to even consider.


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[JimBHibees]

Amazes me Nick Walsh is allowed to referee Old Firm games. He’s not the worst referee by any stretch, but a former ST holder at Parkhead!

Doubt it. Think you have been taken in by Old firm whataboutery.

[LaMotta]

https://x.com/francoisplateau/status/1769120571395015084?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A (https://x.com/francoisplateau/status/1769120571395015084?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A)

Not Scotland, but for the questions on why referees would favour Rangers or Celtic (or not favour Hibs), this is a thread with examples of Ferguson's influence over referees when he was at Manchester United.

Rangers and Celtic have that influence here.

Really interesting - didn't know a lot of that. Shows how important it is for managers to be clever in post match interviews and the press in highlighting bad decisions against their team and that refs will have to think a bit harder before giving decisions against their team. This is an area Hibs could have been better at over the last couple of years IMO.

[JimBHibees]

https://x.com/francoisplateau/status/1769120571395015084?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A

Not Scotland, but for the questions on why referees would favour Rangers or Celtic (or not favour Hibs), this is a thread with examples of Ferguson's influence over referees when he was at Manchester United.

Rangers and Celtic have that influence here.

How do you read that all i am seeing is one post?

[Is It On....]

I agree with the sentiment.

Only thing with a geographical quota like that is that sub-standard (I know, I know how could it get any worse) referees would get fast tracked because they're from the Highlands/Borders/Aberdeenshire etc which could possibly be even worse.

Ayrshire and Glasgow dominate the referee pool to such an extent that I don't think there are any top tier referees out with this very select pool.

[matty_f]

How do you read that all i am seeing is one post?

I just press on the first tweet and then the replies open up.

[LewysGot2]

Ayrshire and Glasgow dominate the referee pool to such an extent that I don't think there are any top tier referees out with this very select pool.

Are there not a fair few Lanarkshire ones? It’s pretty much all West Coast.

Thing is, cannae but help think any referee from anywhere else would still get sucked into the unconscious or conscious bias towards the Uglies.

[Coach Jon]

Scottish referees are worried about their career prospects and are either biased, corrupt or incompetent.
Get referees in from abroad for SPL fixtures.

[PatHead]

Scottish referees are worried about their career prospects and are either biased, corrupt or incompetent.
Get referees in from abroad for SPL fixtures.

Genuinely don't think that is necessary. What is needed is a broadening of our referee base to include referees from other regions. Surely throughout the whole of Scotland there must be at least 20-30 decent referees.

Probably controversial but I don't think that the head of referees needs to be a referee but a strong willed top quality administrator who can organise it.

[maturehibby]

I think it should be What referees Rangers shouldn't get
Beaton.Robertson .Walsh Aitken .
Muir to name the usual suspects and give them Colum every second game .
Wonder how the league would look with a few more Napiers.Irvine.Dickinson doing their games

[Coach Jon]

Genuinely don't think that is necessary. What is needed is a broadening of our referee base to include referees from other regions. Surely throughout the whole of Scotland there must be at least 20-30 decent referees.

Probably controversial but I don't think that the head of referees needs to be a referee but a strong willed top quality administrator who can organise it.

But that is not happening due to the vast majority of top flight referees coming from the west, and that isnt going to change any time soon.