Season over. Empty him now.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'd imagine any 'Jambo Provocateurs ' would be desperate for NM to stay. Same as I wanted Cathro to be given a life contract over there.

:greengrin

I’ve always found the accusing folk of being Jambos for wanting rid of an underachieving manager bizarre. As you say, they’ll be loving the fact we have a guy in charge who isn’t getting results. If anything, logically you would have to suggest that if you’re going to accuse anyone of being a Jambo then it would surely be the folk wanting us to keep a manager who isn’t delivering :greengrin

[Onion]

Why? It’s not because he was on a booking. Lots of players get booked and we don’t automatically sub them. This was to do with the fact that he looked absolutely lost and was losing control.
Welsh did not look like that. I don’t blame Montgomery one bit for Welsh’s sending off. Those ones can happen to any manager. Obita’s on the other hand was telegraphed and a good manager acts before it happens.


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Not even a good manager. It was one of the most incompetent non-decisions I've seen from any manager. Obita's red card was on Monty.

[Dashing Bob S]

I can remember a few frustrating seasons at Hibs but none as bad as this. There have been so many criminal referring decisions and VAR against us - way above and beyond the normal persecution complex stuff fans indulge in - and we’ve had some terrible luck.

Ultimately though we’ve promised a lot but delivered zero under this management team.

But I’ll stick with NM. Unlike on other occasions I can see genuine grounds for progress and optimism. I sense we really are taking a backward step to move forward.

I’m here to be shot down, certainly, and finishing outside the top six is an almost impossible defence. But there you go…

[ChilliEater]

Not even a good manager. It was one of the most incompetent non-decisions I've seen from any manager. Obita's red card was on Monty.

Interesting statement - could you name a few incompetent non-decisions by managers to give us a chace to rank them?

[ChilliEater]

:greengrin

I’ve always found the accusing folk of being Jambos for wanting rid of an underachieving manager bizarre. As you say, they’ll be loving the fact we have a guy in charge who isn’t getting results. If anything, logically you would have to suggest that if you’re going to accuse anyone of being a Jambo then it would surely be the folk wanting us to keep a manager who isn’t delivering :greengrin

No, I'd respectfully disagree with your statement there. I think most football fans wouldn't expect posts on a messageboard to have very much influence on a board descision to keep or fire a manager. That would, you'd think, mostly come down to results on the pitch. If someone was going to troll the messageboard of a rival team, I'd imagine their best approach would be to be all over every thread, posting aggressively hyperbolic statements, to stir up the natives and then enjoy watching the bickering and angst they'd helped to create.

[Kato]

No, I'd respectfully disagree with your statement there. I think most football fans wouldn't expect posts on a messageboard to have very much influence on a board descision to keep or fire a manager. That would, you'd think, mostly come down to results on the pitch. If someone was going to troll the messageboard of a rival team, I'd imagine their best approach would be to be all over every thread, posting aggressively hyperbolic statements, to stir up the natives and then enjoy watching the bickering and angst they'd helped to create.Correct.

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[Alfred E Newman]

I think he needs to whip a couple of teams
Likely hood….. absolute zero

I think it was Jack Ross that was slated for not winning any “big games”.
Monty’s claim to fame at the moment is 2 draws at Tynecastle and a backs to the wall home draw against Celtic.

[Paulie Walnuts]

No, I'd respectfully disagree with your statement there. I think most football fans wouldn't expect posts on a messageboard to have very much influence on a board descision to keep or fire a manager. That would, you'd think, mostly come down to results on the pitch. If someone was going to troll the messageboard of a rival team, I'd imagine their best approach would be to be all over every thread, posting aggressively hyperbolic statements, to stir up the natives and then enjoy watching the bickering and angst they'd helped to create.

We’ll have to agree to disagree then.

If I was going to have went onto Kickback during the Cathro or Stendell days then I’d have been posting backing them to the hilt and I fully expect that would have stirred the natives up.

[babahibs]

No, I'd respectfully disagree with your statement there. I think most football fans wouldn't expect posts on a messageboard to have very much influence on a board descision to keep or fire a manager. That would, you'd think, mostly come down to results on the pitch. If someone was going to troll the messageboard of a rival team, I'd imagine their best approach would be to be all over every thread, posting aggressively hyperbolic statements, to stir up the natives and then enjoy watching the bickering and angst they'd helped to create.

Very much this.
This place is crawling with them.

[Centre Hawf]

Interesting statement - could you name a few incompetent non-decisions by managers to give us a chace to rank them?

The decision to not take Obita off reminded me of the time Lee Johnsons didn't take off Kyle Magennis on the Friday night game at home to St Johnstone. Everyone in the stadium could see he was reaching for the ball in tackles and was one mistimed one away from walking. Obita wasn't tired like KM was but you could tell he was losing the head and was probably just one foul in general away regardless of what the foul was.

The only positive in this scenario for Montgomery is that he didn't come out after the game spewing some nonsense about Magennis' stats on the iPad.

[Kato]

We’ll have to agree to disagree then.

If I was going to have went onto Kickback during the Cathro or Stendell days then I’d have been posting backing them to the hilt and I fully expect that would have stirred the natives up.They'd have sussed you out straight away then.

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[ChilliEater]

We’ll have to agree to disagree then.

If I was going to have went onto Kickback during the Cathro or Stendell days then I’d have been posting backing them to the hilt and I fully expect that would have stirred the natives up.

So, you would have been on their messageboard, making aggressively hyerbolic statements, to stir up the natives and enjoy their bickering and angst?

[One Day Soon]

So, you would have been on their messageboard, making aggressively hyerbolic statements, to stir up the natives and enjoy their bickering and angst?

I can think of a least one poster on here inveterately posting in defence of NM, not making aggressively hyperbolic statements, stirring up some but not all natives and perhaps, but who knows, enjoying the bickering and angst. A Hearts fans wouldn't need to be too obvious and visible in their approach to stirring up trouble.

The fact that someone is either passionately for or against NM's performance to date and prospects ahead really tells us zero in itself about whether or not they are actually Hibs supporters.

[Paulie Walnuts]

So, you would have been on their messageboard, making aggressively hyerbolic statements, to stir up the natives and enjoy their bickering and angst?

If I was that way inclined, yes. And that would be quite easy to achieve by telling them that their failing manager should keep his job.

I do find it funny though that anyone posting something you don’t agree with is posting aggressively hyperbolic stuff yet folk you do agree with are absolutely fine to do so. Plenty folk on here who are backing the manager to the hilt and seeing things I don’t agree with. I’m not going to start declaring them aggressively hyperbolic posters just because I don’t agree with them though.

[WeeRussell]

If I was that way inclined, yes. And that would be quite easy to achieve by telling them that their failing manager should keep his job.

I do find it funny though that anyone posting something you don’t agree with is posting aggressively hyperbolic stuff yet folk you do agree with are absolutely fine to do so. Plenty folk on here who are backing the manager to the hilt and seeing things I don’t agree with. I’m not going to start declaring them aggressively hyperbolic posters just because I don’t agree with them though.

You’d be quite entitled and welcome to, if and when they’re posting in an aggressively hyperbolic way.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You’d be quite entitled and welcome to, if and when they’re posting in an aggressively hyperbolic way.

If posting that the manager isn’t doing a good enough job is deemed aggressively hyperbolic then it works the other way when folk are declaring we absolutely can’t sack him etc.

What I would say though is that I think the idea anyone on any side is being aggressively hyperbolic is nonsense imo. In terms of the criticism, I think the vast majority of it has been fairly measured, with the exception of the bizarre thread about how he pronounces certain words. In terms of the folk backing him, whilst I don’t agree with it, it’s largely been fairly measured with the exception of the folk desperate to declare anyone they don’t agree with a Hearts fan.

[ChilliEater]

If I was that way inclined, yes. And that would be quite easy to achieve by telling them that their failing manager should keep his job.

I do find it funny though that anyone posting something you don’t agree with is posting aggressively hyperbolic stuff yet folk you do agree with are absolutely fine to do so. Plenty folk on here who are backing the manager to the hilt and seeing things I don’t agree with. I’m not going to start declaring them aggressively hyperbolic posters just because I don’t agree with them though.

Sort of true, but not in the way I think you meant it. I disagree with the people posting negative hyperbole - because it's never constructive or well thought out. Cries of "clown" "from a pub league" "hopeless" "clueless" say more, I think, about the poster than the manager they're decrying. There are plenty of posters who put together reasoned posts, questioning the managers decisions, questioning poor results and giving their opinion based on that, that they don't think he's the man to turn it around, while others point to things that have gone well and see that as a reason to give him more time. I'm more inclined to the second view, but I respect the first one. If anyone was relentlessly claiming he was the new messiah and could do no wrong I doubt I'd call it out as much because positivity is usually pretty harmless and easily ignored, but if it went on and on and on as much as the negativity does on here at the moment it would get pretty cringey and I'd probably try to balance it out a little.

[blackpoolhibs]

Look at that crowd today, will be announced as 16k though. People are leaving in droves under this man.

[Callum_62]

Look at that crowd today, will be announced as 16k though. People are leaving in droves under this man.Not really overly sure why tbh - not based on our recent form

Missing lots of goals today so far

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[Northernhibee]

Season back on, Monty in

[Pagan Hibernia]

Look at that crowd today, will be announced as 16k though. People are leaving in droves under this man.

Their loss then, by the looks of it. Been great today.

[Since90+2]

You could make a good argument that if we had got the decisions we deserved we'd be sitting in 4th. Overall and by historical stats that would be a good season for us.

[SHODAN]

Is the season over though

[silverhibee]

Is the season over though

4th spot is on.

[Callum_62]

4th spot is on.It's a push imo but 5th is easily catchable - it's making sure we are in the top 6 that feels a bit dicey [emoji38]

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[Centre Hawf]

It's a push imo but 5th is easily catchable - it's making sure we are in the top 6 that feels a bit dicey [emoji38]

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I think for me 4th is still available, but it's not one to worry about until the split rolls around and we can see where we are at that point. Some winnable games coming up after the Rangers game and hopefully we can chip away at their leads on us before we would play them come a Top 6 split.

[HendoDelivered]

Trust the process 👍🏼

[Northernhibee]

Trust the process 👍🏼

Overreaction midweek was embarrassing - without dodgy refereeing decisions that would be fifteen points from fifteen.

[HendoDelivered]

Overreaction midweek was embarrassing - without dodgy refereeing decisions that would be fifteen points from fifteen.

Agreed. Expect the thread to be a lot quieter until the next game.

[Donegal Hibby]

Trust the process 👍🏼
:agree:


Overreaction midweek was embarrassing - without dodgy refereeing decisions that would be fifteen points from fifteen.
:agree:

[Dashing Bob S]

First half great but given that top six could go to goal difference I’m disappointed that we lacked the focus and discipline to turn the screw.

[Musselbound]

Overreaction midweek was embarrassing - without dodgy refereeing decisions that would be fifteen points from fifteen.

The Hearts score today should also put to bed the nonsense that we should be wiping the floor with Ross County every time. Though no doubt some of their fans will be coming up with similar tonight.

[Musselbound]

First half great but given that top six could go to goal difference I’m disappointed that we lacked the focus and discipline to turn the screw.

I'd say an aspect of the focus and discipline is to make sure we keep it tight and don't give the opposition any encouragement to get back in the game.

[Northernhibee]

First half great but given that top six could go to goal difference I’m disappointed that we lacked the focus and discipline to turn the screw.

Three games in six days and the squad is beginning to look thin again. Don’t blame them for thinking about the run in.

[Tha Cabbage Kid]

We totally took the foot off the gas in the second half. I thought we were going to score every time we went up the park. Great goals too.
Great effort lads! Mon the Hibs!

[B.H.F.C]

Three games in six days and the squad is beginning to look thin again. Don’t blame them for thinking about the run in.

Said I was slightly disappointed as well but the second half was just really disjointed with the changes. Having to take Maolida off so early didn’t help either.

The last few weeks have been good for us. After our last league defeat to Celtic, we were 10 points behind Kilmarnock in fourth and 9 points behind St Mirren in fifth. That’s down to 6 and 4 points respectively now.

Providing we get top six, I fancy us to catch St Mirren at least. International beak at a good time for us just to get folk fit again.

[babahibs]

Embarrassing thread title, in no way is the season over, loads to play for.

[HFC 0-7]

You could make a good argument that if we had got the decisions we deserved we'd be sitting in 4th. Overall and by historical stats that would be a good season for us.

I agree to some extent but that assumes that no other club has been shafted from horrible refereeing decisions.

[Joe6-2]

I agree to some extent but that assumes that no other club has been shafted from horrible refereeing decisions.

No where near as many as us

[silverhibee]

Has he gone. :na na:

[Ryan91]

First half great but given that top six could go to goal difference I’m disappointed that we lacked the focus and discipline to turn the screw.

6 goals the difference between us, Dundee play Rangers tomorrow, at the very least it's going to be 7 goals difference after that if Rangers win, if not more, and I can't see them turning that around in the space of 3 games.

[Cat Stanton]

Good win, great first half. I can actually enjoy my night now without having to read the usual slavering "empty this imposter" mince from people with no idea of the meaning of the word "perspective".

[WhileTheChief..]

A good, decent, bread n butter win.

This is the type of result I expect when playing the smaller teams at home. Let's keep it up.

[Donegal Hibby]

That first half performance was as good as I've seen us play , played some really nice stuff . Livvy just couldn't live with us in that first 45 minutes. Well done Monty .

[gaz1875]

Hang on, you open with the incredibly sarcastic 'Hindsight is brilliant, you must have bags of it, get into football management.' and then you want to start whining when you get some back? Grow up.

Whining? and now you tell me to grow up :aok:

[Since90+2]

A good, decent, bread n butter win.

This is the type of result I expect when playing the smaller teams at home. Let's keep it up.

Not sure why you'd expect it. We very very rarely win any game in the Premier League by 3 goals, whether that's against the team bottom of the league or not.

To say you expect it is judging Montgomery unfairly and goes completely against every previous season we've ever had. It's very rare we win games at such a canter.

[hibsbollah]

Not sure why you'd expect it. We very very rarely win any game in the Premier League by 3 goals, whether that's against the team bottom of the league or not.

To say you expect it is judging Montgomery unfairly and hies completely against every previous season we've ever had. It's very rare we win games at such a canter.

There’s another thread saying 3-0 wasn’t enough, the bar for what’s acceptable for Montgomery seems to be high these days…

[Real Emerald]

Great first half performance won us the game. Still invited pressure on ourselves getting hemmed in at the back and I was glad we were 3 up or it could have became uncomfortable.

Most of his subs were forced upon him but they killed the game, especially Jair. I’m far from believing Monty is the answer going forward but credit where it’s due and I’d have definitely taken a 3nil win before the game. You hardly ever get games where you can relax and enjoy the last 20 minutes at ER these days so well done. 👏

[Since90+2]

There’s another thread saying 3-0 wasn’t enough, the bar for what’s acceptable for Montgomery seems to be high these days…

Some people are just never happy.

[gaz1875]

Great first half performance won us the game. Still invited pressure on ourselves getting hemmed in at the back and I was glad we were 3 up or it could have became uncomfortable.

Most of his subs were forced upon him but they killed the game, especially Jair. I’m far from believing Monty is the answer going forward but credit where it’s due and I’d have definitely taken a 3nil win before the game. You hardly ever get games where you can relax and enjoy the last 20 minutes at ER these days so well done. ��

I guess Jair was only brought on as Myziane was maybe tiring with fasting for Ramadan. There is a huge gulf between them as shown today, and we definitely dropped off when he went off. As you say the other subs were down to injury. The good thing now is once Boyle and Millar are back playing, our bench is so much better than before the January transfer window.

[B.H.F.C]

Great first half performance won us the game. Still invited pressure on ourselves getting hemmed in at the back and I was glad we were 3 up or it could have became uncomfortable.

Most of his subs were forced upon him but they killed the game, especially Jair. I’m far from believing Monty is the answer going forward but credit where it’s due and I’d have definitely taken a 3nil win before the game. You hardly ever get games where you can relax and enjoy the last 20 minutes at ER these days so well done. 👏

We were never hemmed in at any point in that game! They had a couple of efforts in the second half and we were a wee bit disjointed but that was about it. We pissed about trying to play fancy passes in the second half instead of just playing the game, in the final third.

[CB Hibs 68]

6 goals the difference between us, Dundee play Rangers tomorrow, at the very least it's going to be 7 goals difference after that if Rangers win, if not more, and I can't see them turning that around in the space of 3 games.

Fair point except we are going to Ibrox next game .Love to think we will get a result but unlikely and who knows what our goal difference might be .Funnily enough I am still more concerned about Motherwell than Dundee..Top six might be down to the final match against well before the split.Only saying..

[Real Emerald]

We were never hemmed in at any point in that game! They had a couple of efforts in the second half and we were a wee bit disjointed but that was about it. We pissed about trying to play fancy passes in the second half instead of just playing the game, in the final third.

That’s what I was talking about, pissing about at the back inviting trouble, conceding corners and at one point we were lucky they never scored. We were hemmed in on these occasions which is what I meant.

[LaMotta]

There’s another thread saying 3-0 wasn’t enough, the bar for what’s acceptable for Montgomery seems to be high these days…

That's not what the thread says though. Its says that the win was great but it was a missed opportunity not to really boost our goal difference. Which it was IMO.

[LaMotta]

First half great but given that top six could go to goal difference I’m disappointed that we lacked the focus and discipline to turn the screw.

:agree:


6 goals the difference between us, Dundee play Rangers tomorrow, at the very least it's going to be 7 goals difference after that if Rangers win, if not more, and I can't see them turning that around in the space of 3 games.

Dashing Bob will have been thinking up the way, not Dundee, that's where the goal difference could really matter.

[B.H.F.C]

:agree:



Dashing Bob will have been thinking up the way, not Dundee, that's where the goal difference could really matter.

On the flip side, we also kept a clean sheet which contributes to the goal difference. Something we struggle with.

[LaMotta]

On the flip side, we also kept a clean sheet which contributes to the goal difference. Something we struggle with.

:agree:

[007]

That's not what the thread says though. Its says that the win was great but it was a missed opportunity not to really boost our goal difference. Which it was IMO.

If it was you calling the shots you'd have probably caused players to get injured after the game was already won.

[LaMotta]

If it was you calling the shots you'd have probably caused players to get injured after the game was already won.

:yawn:

[007]

:yawn:

And you.

[Jim44]

All in all, a good win today. I’ve maybe missed a post here and there but I’m interested to hear what the OP, who clearly has no time for Monty, has to say in the light of our win today. Obviously his view probably wouldn’t change radically but does he give the team and Monty any credit ?

[LaMotta]

And you.

The idea that players will get injured for staying on the pitch for 90 minutes is absolutely ridiculous.

[Callum_62]

3rd in the last 6 form table now too

And really given some of the bizarre decisions we've had against us that could've been 2nd

Not sure there can be too many complaints post January

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[DIXIHIBS]

Well done hibees. Decent win today. Should have been 4-0 to help my predictor. A lot a people saying it was a big game today....correct...and we turned up. Onwards and upwards.

[007]

The idea that players will get injured for staying on the pitch for 90 minutes is absolutely ridiculous.

It was pointed out to you why players were subbed which you acknowledged were fair points. Have you done a u-turn?

https://i.ibb.co/Wgt4C0J/Screenshot-20240316-224614-Chrome.jpg (https://ibb.co/FgVLpXT)

[LaMotta]

It was pointed out to you why players were subbed which you acknowledged were fair points. Have you done a u-turn?

https://i.ibb.co/Wgt4C0J/Screenshot-20240316-224614-Chrome.jpg (https://ibb.co/FgVLpXT)

Cadden had to come off. Maolida could have stayed on but I understand the sub. We made 5 subs overall though. There is no doubt it disrupted the performance, and as I have said, Livvy were absolutely brutal today - I just hope goal difference isn't an issue.

[B.H.F.C]

All in all, a good win today. I’ve maybe missed a post here and there but I’m interested to hear what the OP, who clearly has no time for Monty, has to say in the light of our win today. Obviously his view probably wouldn’t change radically but does he give the team and Monty any credit ?

Thread will be quieter now. We’ll lose to Rangers and it’ll crop back up again. Or a similar one will. Then we’ll beat St Johnstone and it’ll quieten down a bit again.

There’s little point, IMO, of judging until after the Motherwell game now. If we are on the wrong side of the split, which we really shouldn’t be, we all kncownwhat needs to happen. But if we’re on the right side of it I think we’ll, at least, equal where we finished last season.

[007]

Cadden had to come off. Maolida could have stayed on but I understand the sub. We made 5 subs overall though. There is no doubt it disrupted the performance, and as I have said, Livvy were absolutely brutal today - I just hope goal difference isn't an issue.

So what should have the substitutions been?

[matty_f]

There’s another thread saying 3-0 wasn’t enough, the bar for what’s acceptable for Montgomery seems to be high these days…

I'm already looking forward to reading how this win didn't count because Livi were awful and were sick all week when we next drop points.

[LaMotta]

So what should have the substitutions been?

Less of them.

[007]

Less of them.

So you're saying Montgomery got them wrong but you're not prepared to say what he should have done?

[LaMotta]

So you're saying Montgomery got them wrong but you're not prepared to say what he should have done?

I wouldn't have taken off Maolida so soon - he was causing mayhem and I think could have helped get us a goal or two more. I wouldn't have taken Alf off he was brilliant. I wouldn't have put on an 18 year old for his first appearance of the season.

If you don't think today was a missed opportunity then fair enough. I've already said it was a very good result, before the game I would have jumped at it. The way the game went and how bad Livvy were I feel we could have bumped our goal difference up more. Its a minor thing on a good day, some others clearly agree with me, I'll make no apology for wanting more from us though - I'll leave it at that.:aok:

[HoboHarry]

Aff tae yer beds, the pair of ye.....

[WhileTheChief..]

Not sure why you'd expect it. We very very rarely win any game in the Premier League by 3 goals, whether that's against the team bottom of the league or not.

To say you expect it is judging Montgomery unfairly and goes completely against every previous season we've ever had. It's very rare we win games at such a canter.

Ok, I only meant t was a decent result, wasn't trying to knock anyone or say anything else.

A good home win. I just want to see more of them.

[One Day Soon]

Job done comfortably today, though against a really dead in the water Livingston. Still, you can only play/beat what’s in front of you and that was pretty comfortable.

[LaMotta]

Aff tae yer beds, the pair of ye.....

Change yer username......

[007]

I wouldn't have taken off Maolida so soon - he was causing mayhem and I think could have helped get us a goal or two more. I wouldn't have taken Alf off he was brilliant. I wouldn't have put on an 18 year old for his first appearance of the season.

If you don't think today was a missed opportunity then fair enough. I've already said it was a very good result, before the game I would have jumped at it. The way the game went and how bad Livvy were I feel we could have bumped our goal difference up more. Its a minor thing on a good day, some others clearly agree with me, I'll make no apology for wanting more from us though - I'll leave it at that.:aok:

I'm a big fan of Maolida and stood to win £500 if he got a hat-trick but I'm not going to second guess the coaching team for taking him off as a precaution, which you already acknowledged was a fair point. Yet you would have risked keeping him on in a game that was already won after he'd played just about the full game v Rangers 6 days ago and 100 minutes v Ross County 3 days ago. Tired players are prone to getting injuries. Your suggestion he was causing mayhem is an overexaggeration in an attempt to prove your point. Was his data saying he'd be good to stay on longer?

[HoboHarry]

Change yer username......

Aye right, had it since around 2010 to confuse dafty jambos on the Scotsman forum. Hell will freeze over before I change it.

[LaMotta]

I'm a big fan of Maolida and stood to win £500 if he got a hat-trick but I'm not going to second guess the coaching team for taking him off as a precaution, which you already acknowledged was a fair point. Yet you would have risked keeping him on in a game that was already won after he'd played just about the full game v Rangers 6 days ago and 100 minutes v Ross County 3 days ago. Tired players are prone to getting injuries. Your suggestion he was causing mayhem is an overexaggeration in an attempt to prove your point. Was his data saying he'd be good to stay on longer?

Mate I'd have won over 8 grand if he'd have got that hat-trick - that's the main reason I'd have kept him on :greengrin If he was struggling then yes the sub was correct. That doesn't change he fact I thought today was a missed opportunity - but its ok to disagree, enjoy the rest of your night bud:aok:

[LaMotta]

Aye right, had it since around 2010 to confuse dafty jambos on the Scotsman forum. Hell will freeze over before I change it.

And hell will freeze over before I get aff tae to ma bed :wink:

[Hulk1875]

I had Fiver on the double gutted when heading back from shop with my cans he had been subbed haha

[007]

Mate I'd have won over 8 grand if he'd have got that hat-trick - that's the main reason I'd have kept him on :greengrin If he was struggling then yes the sub was correct. That doesn't change he fact I thought today was a missed opportunity - but its ok to disagree, enjoy the rest of your night bud:aok:

Thanfully the coaching staff aren't basing their substitution decisions on how much their bets will pay out.

[Greenio]

Thread will be quieter now. We’ll lose to Rangers and it’ll crop back up again. Or a similar one will. Then we’ll beat St Johnstone and it’ll quieten down a bit again.

There’s little point, IMO, of judging until after the Motherwell game now. If we are on the wrong side of the split, which we really shouldn’t be, we all kncownwhat needs to happen. But if we’re on the right side of it I think we’ll, at least, equal where we finished last season.

I understand the need for a yardstick. But don't you think it's a strange to make such a big call, based on what could be a matter of a goal difference.


Being on the right or wrong side of the split shouldn't, imo, be used to decide if we sack another manager, pay yet another compensation, lose all the foundation of a strategy, lose all potential scouted players for next season, have to deal with all the distraction, cost and time that comes with a new manager hunt

If you think all that is a better choice than backing NM enough to give him a transfer window and pre season and judge him on that, then fair enough.

But it's got to be a more holistic call than + or - a goal or two no?

[andrew70]

I understand the need for a yardstick. But don't you think it's a strange to make such a big call, based on what could be a matter of a goal difference.


Being on the right or wrong side of the split shouldn't, imo, be used to decide if we sack another manager, pay yet another compensation, lose all the foundation of a strategy, lose all potential scouted players for next season, have to deal with all the distraction, cost and time that comes with a new manager hunt

If you think all that is a better choice than backing NM enough to give him a transfer window and pre season and judge him on that, then fair enough.

But it's got to be a more holistic call than + or - a goal or two no?

This. We’re going places. Time to trust the process rather than rip it all up and start again.

[Keepthefaith]

I understand the need for a yardstick. But don't you think it's a strange to make such a big call, based on what could be a matter of a goal difference.


Being on the right or wrong side of the split shouldn't, imo, be used to decide if we sack another manager, pay yet another compensation, lose all the foundation of a strategy, lose all potential scouted players for next season, have to deal with all the distraction, cost and time that comes with a new manager hunt

If you think all that is a better choice than backing NM enough to give him a transfer window and pre season and judge him on that, then fair enough.

But it's got to be a more holistic call than + or - a goal or two no?

Well said. It's like folk think there's another manager out there who's guaranteed to do better, which we know is simply not the case. Folk not taking into account injuries, awful refereeing decisions and Jan window. Sure he's made some mistakes, but are we really saying we want/ need a perfect manager? He's been successful but is also still relatively inexperienced. My view is that with taking on the learning he's gaining, plus squad overhaul post investment, we need stability in order to get the success we all want.

It's almost like we need to keep the faith...

[RIP]

Why can't we go for the coaching team that has been unbeaten in the Scottish Premiership for six games?

They look like guys who know what they are doing.

[blackpoolhibs]

The game was finished when we scored the 3rd, i can understand why he wanted to give others some minutes, and keep others fresh for future games.

Good win.:top marks

[B.H.F.C]

I understand the need for a yardstick. But don't you think it's a strange to make such a big call, based on what could be a matter of a goal difference.


Being on the right or wrong side of the split shouldn't, imo, be used to decide if we sack another manager, pay yet another compensation, lose all the foundation of a strategy, lose all potential scouted players for next season, have to deal with all the distraction, cost and time that comes with a new manager hunt

If you think all that is a better choice than backing NM enough to give him a transfer window and pre season and judge him on that, then fair enough.

But it's got to be a more holistic call than + or - a goal or two no?

If we’re on the wrong side of the split, it’ll be because of results over his 29 games in the league. If we fall short, which I don’t think we will, there would be too much ill feeling and it would constantly be used as a stick to beat him with.

I’m of the opinion that he does need time and there is enough mitigation as to why we are where we are. But there are still certain targets he needs to hit and I don’t think he would survive finishing in the bottom six.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why can't we go for the coaching team that has been unbeaten in the Scottish Premiership for six games?

They look like guys who know what they are doing.

Hilarious :rolleyes:

[hibsbollah]

Why can't we go for the coaching team that has been unbeaten in the Scottish Premiership for six games?

They look like guys who know what they are doing.

:greengrin
Statistics can be used to tell any story you want them to.

[tonyrougier123]

Everyone is learning as we go here. Good thing to remember.
I think signs are there we will be a good team under Montgomery. I don’t want to compare with ex managers but I think we have a total football coaching team,extremely passionate and hungry to succeed. Deserves to be backed in the summer and also should have our full support. The added quality has made a big difference to the squad and his options.
I was glad on Wednesday he identified where it wasn’t working and changed what most of us felt needed changed. Unfortunate what happened at end but we were much better,Saturday was superb albeit against bottom club but still not so long ago we’d have trudged our way through that game. The goals are there the phases of play look superb at times. Count me happy atm.

[One Day Soon]

It’s very simple for me. I want him to leave us with a binary choice to make at the end of this season. Either fail to make the top six while making clear errors that he shouldn’t do so that he’s removed, or make the top six playing more and more consistently and with very clear signs of ongoing improvement in the team and individual players so that there’s good reason to trust him with the summer window.

For the love of God please don’t let it be a guessing match as to whether he should be kept on or not. Another sacking in the first quarter of next season would be disastrous.

[He's here!]

It’s very simple for me. I want him to leave us with a binary choice to make at the end of this season. Either fail to make the top six while making clear errors that he shouldn’t do so that he’s removed, or make the top six playing more and more consistently and with very clear signs of ongoing improvement in the team and individual players so that there’s good reason to trust him with the summer window.

For the love of God please don’t let it be a guessing match as to whether he should be kept on or not. Another sacking in the first quarter of next season would be disastrous.

The second scenario is very much in evidence at present. Here's hoping we can maintain this level of improvement until the end of the season.

[One Day Soon]

The second scenario is very much in evidence at present. Here's hoping we can maintain this level of improvement until the end of the season.

Is it? I’d say we’re on the border between no-man’s land and the second scenario, albeit we’re on a course in recent weeks that started closer to the former and seems to be heading in the right direction.

[Callum_62]

Is it? I’d say we’re on the border between no-man’s land and the second scenario, albeit we’re on a course in recent weeks that started closer to the former and seems to be heading in the right direction.We are currently the 3rd form team in Scotland over the past 6 league games - and we all know some horrendous decisions have affected our points over these games

I think it's clear we are a significantly better team than pre January

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

Everyone is learning as we go here. Good thing to remember.
I think signs are there we will be a good team under Montgomery. I don’t want to compare with ex managers but I think we have a total football coaching team,extremely passionate and hungry to succeed. Deserves to be backed in the summer and also should have our full support. The added quality has made a big difference to the squad and his options.
I was glad on Wednesday he identified where it wasn’t working and changed what most of us felt needed changed. Unfortunate what happened at end but we were much better,Saturday was superb albeit against bottom club but still not so long ago we’d have trudged our way through that game. The goals are there the phases of play look superb at times. Count me happy atm.

Undone by crazy officiating last Wednesday, but even so a draw was far from the abomination some seem to think, especially when you look at the way County took care of Hearts yesterday.

[He's here!]

Is it? I’d say we’re on the border between no-man’s land and the second scenario, albeit we’re on a course in recent weeks that started closer to the former and seems to be heading in the right direction.

It seems pretty clear to me we're on a far more positive trajectory since the St Mirren game. Longest unbeaten run in the top flight I think they said on Sportscene. Not perfect by any means but vastly improved from the dismal days around Christmas, with shrewd January arrivals making us a significantly more robust proposition. Important to see beyond what will be a likely defeat at Ibrox and judge progress on what remains of the season after that.

[Greensunshine]

I’m not convinced by NM however there’s no doubt there’s been a huge improvement in the team the last few weeks.

I’d give him to the split. If we miss out on top six, I’d empty him. Bring in the manager Foley & Co will want in going forward. Who that would be? I have no idea!

The ball is firmly in NM court. If he can’t get us top six then he’s failed miserably!

[NAE NOOKIE]

There’s another thread saying 3-0 wasn’t enough, the bar for what’s acceptable for Montgomery seems to be high these days…

To be fair mate, that thread was based on what was evident during yesterday's game rather than folk saying Hibs should bury the likes of Livvi whenever we play them.

After about 15 minutes it was clear the issues Livvi had vis a vis illness in their camp and their overall rubbish form had conspired to make them the weakest team we have faced all season. 3 - 0 is never to be sniffed at, but the absolute fact is it could, and should, have been more.

[hibsbollah]

To be fair mate, that thread was based on what was evident during yesterday's game rather than folk saying Hibs should bury the likes of Livvi whenever we play them.

After about 15 minutes it was clear the issues Livvi had vis a vis illness in their camp and their overall rubbish form had conspired to make them the weakest team we have faced all season. 3 - 0 is never to be sniffed at, but the absolute fact is it could, and should, have been more.

Well i missed the game due to other commitments so youd be justified in telling me to mind my own :greengrin But i cant help feeling that theres an agenda of not wanting to give credit to the manager here. Not necessarily you, but definitely some posters are grudging. A three goal win is a decisive win and positivity breeds better performances.

[Greenio]

I’m not convinced by NM however there’s no doubt there’s been a huge improvement in the team the last few weeks.

I’d give him to the split. If we miss out on top six, I’d empty him. Bring in the manager Foley & Co will want in going forward. Who that would be? I have no idea!

The ball is firmly in NM court. If he can’t get us top six then he’s failed miserably!

Do you think Foley and Co are going to be having say on new managers? I dont know, hence the Q.thought the idea was they stay out of football side. Althought that does seem a bit odd, at least until he gets more control, if that is on the cards.

[GloryGlory]

Do you think Foley and Co are going to be having say on new managers? I dont know, hence the Q.thought the idea was they stay out of football side. Althought that does seem a bit odd, at least until he gets more control, if that is on the cards.

Ron was maybe also thinking about the US sports experience where the fans turn up hours beforehand for tailgate parties and BBQs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailgate_party

[Paulie Walnuts]

I understand the need for a yardstick. But don't you think it's a strange to make such a big call, based on what could be a matter of a goal difference.


Being on the right or wrong side of the split shouldn't, imo, be used to decide if we sack another manager, pay yet another compensation, lose all the foundation of a strategy, lose all potential scouted players for next season, have to deal with all the distraction, cost and time that comes with a new manager hunt

If you think all that is a better choice than backing NM enough to give him a transfer window and pre season and judge him on that, then fair enough.

But it's got to be a more holistic call than + or - a goal or two no?

The yardstick has to be somewhere and top 6/bottom 6 would seem as fair a yard stick as any, no? Keep in mind 6th place is still a disappointing finish, so it’s not exactly like it’s leaving absolutely no wiggle room and it could be a case of a being a goal short of your target = sacking. It would be a goal short of an already disappointing 6th place. I’d be inclined to agree with your point if we were talking about finishing 5th and missing out on 4th on goal difference but we’re talking about missing out on a crap finish on goal difference for an even crapper finish.

There’ll always be something you can point to, so where does the line get drawn? If it’s not goal difference, then the same argument could be extended to falling short by a point. If it’s two points then you could point to the argument that you’d have accepted falling short by one point, why not just accept two?

In the scenario being discussed, he’d not be getting sacked for failing to better the goal difference of a team, he’d be sacked for failing to get top 6, regardless of how that comes about, whether it’s by goal difference or points. I think that’s a perfectly suitable yardstick for making such a call considering the clubs stated aims and the financial implications that come with missing out on those aims.

Yesterday’s win is huge in terms of getting top 6 though. I’d like to think a win at home against St Johnstone and avoiding defeat against Motherwell would be enough now.

[Haymaker]

Ron was maybe also thinking about the US sports experience where the fans turn up hours beforehand for tailgate parties and BBQs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailgate_party

For the most part you tailgate in the US because stadiums are miles away from anything. They are fun though but for example when I go to the Metlife, you're in the middle of a swamp surrounded by highways.

[One Day Soon]

We are currently the 3rd form team in Scotland over the past 6 league games - and we all know some horrendous decisions have affected our points over these games

I think it's clear we are a significantly better team than pre January

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk


We'll know whether or not that's true after the split and then again after the final few games. The last 6 games are unreliable yardstick for me because it's so few games, but add on the remaining 8 or so with sustained results and we'll know where we stand.

[One Day Soon]

It seems pretty clear to me we're on a far more positive trajectory since the St Mirren game. Longest unbeaten run in the top flight I think they said on Sportscene. Not perfect by any means but vastly improved from the dismal days around Christmas, with shrewd January arrivals making us a significantly more robust proposition. Important to see beyond what will be a likely defeat at Ibrox and judge progress on what remains of the season after that.

As stated above its nice to have the unbeaten run but let's see what happens both at the split and - assuming we make top six - with the final fixtures after that. I doubt anyone expects to come away from Ibrox with much so that's almost a free hit for NM although at the very least you'd want to see a decent performance and no odd tactics/selections. Certainly I expect us to make Ugly Sister Bigot work bloody hard for any home points they take.

[HoboHarry]

For the most part you tailgate in the US because stadiums are miles away from anything. They are fun though but for example when I go to the Metlife, you're in the middle of a swamp surrounded by highways.

Don't live there any more but we lived about two miles south of the Arrowhead and the tailgating at Chiefs games was something else, first game I ever attended we were on steaks and beer while the people next to us were on grilled lobster and champagne :greengrin

[MKHIBEE]

This. We’re going places. Time to trust the process rather than rip it all up and start again.

That’s the sensible approach, hopefully we are building a solid base for the future rather than continually looking for short term fixes.

[Haymaker]

Don't live there any more but we lived about two miles south of the Arrowhead and the tailgating at Chiefs games was something else, first game I ever attended we were on steaks and beer while the people next to us were on grilled lobster and champagne :greengrin

Oh yes it's wonderful what people do however... most of the time it's because there is NOTHING to do otherwise.

[stuart-farquhar]

Oh yes it's wonderful what people do however... most of the time it's because there is NOTHING to do otherwise.

Ain't that the truth

[ElginHibee]

Do you think Foley and Co are going to be having say on new managers? I dont know, hence the Q.thought the idea was they stay out of football side. Althought that does seem a bit odd, at least until he gets more control, if that is on the cards.

Foley +1 are on the board, surely that means they have input on any major appointments going forward? Not complete control of the club but you don't throw in 6 mill for nothing.

Using the network for talent acquisition I assume would include all staff as well as players etc. That's a much bigger net than we used to have and is very interesting.

As for the main point of the thread, Monty gets to the end of the season and we'll see where we're at. We can't keep throwing manager after manager away and expect to improve. Since St Mirren things seem much better and I'm hopeful he's turning things around.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Foley +1 are on the board, surely that means they have input on any major appointments going forward? Not complete control of the club but you don't throw in 6 mill for nothing.

Using the network for talent acquisition I assume would include all staff as well as players etc. That's a much bigger net than we used to have and is very interesting.

As for the main point of the thread, Monty gets to the end of the season and we'll see where we're at. We can't keep throwing manager after manager away and expect to improve. Since St Mirren things seem much better and I'm hopeful he's turning things around.

BKFC have as many seats on the board as the Gordon’s. They’ll have just as much say in the day to day running of the club.

[Tambo]

6 points from 9 should see us top 6 and hopefully a little closer to 5th with a chance of Europe for next season.

There is no doubt things have improved in recent weeks so it's now up to Monty and the players to keep going.

[VoltaireHibs]

6 points from 9 should see us top 6 and hopefully a little closer to 5th with a chance of Europe for next season.

There is no doubt things have improved in recent weeks so it's now up to Monty and the players to keep going.


I'm still of the opinion I was months ago - we would be better of in the long term not scraping into a euro comp we'll get pumped out of promptly but which will knacker our pre-season.

If we're going to have a large turnover of players then the more time they're all at HTC during the close season the better. Flights and long trips abroad to play teams that are likely to scud us are just a pain, however much fun a wee away trip may be for the fans.

[JimBHibees]

I'm still of the opinion I was months ago - we would be better of in the long term not scraping into a euro comp we'll get pumped out of promptly but which will knacker our pre-season.

If we're going to have a large turnover of players then the more time they're all at HTC during the close season the better. Flights and long trips abroad to play teams that are likely to scud us are just a pain, however much fun a wee away trip may be for the fans.

Difficult to argue a successful trip to Switzerland and a brilliant trip to Birmingham weren’t hugely enjoyed by people who were there. Much more of the same i say. What being a fan is all about. Support at Villa park was the best i have been in for years.

[Kato]

Club is entering a new era whereby European qualification will be a must and a deeper impression expected. The days of it being a distracting jolly are hopefully over.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[bod]

Think we’ll attract better foreigners by competing in europe at any stage

[WestStandWillie]

Is this gonna be the theme for the rest of the season (and/or) Montgomery's tenure?

One defeat from now on and it's off with his heid :rolleyes:

If that's going to be the approach then there's no way back for him. Then the same pitchfork mob will start calling for Neil "Oh poor me" Lennon back and start greetin when he doesn't get the job.

Need stability, need to let Montgomery get a full pre season under his belt otherwise it'll be chop and change every bloody season.

[He's here!]

I'm still of the opinion I was months ago - we would be better of in the long term not scraping into a euro comp we'll get pumped out of promptly but which will knacker our pre-season.

If we're going to have a large turnover of players then the more time they're all at HTC during the close season the better. Flights and long trips abroad to play teams that are likely to scud us are just a pain, however much fun a wee away trip may be for the fans.

I agree to a certain extent. 'Success' in Europe for all Scottish clubs bar the Old Firm is winning a couple of ties - or making a bit of money like the sheep and yams by getting into the group stages (even if you barely win a game). Unless we have investment at a level which can take us further Europe will remain mostly just a change of scene and a bit of fun for the fans. Is that a hindrance to progress domestically? You could argue it was this season, judging by the way we started the league campaign. But then without the Luzern tie we'd have missed one of our best European results in many years.

[Dashing Bob S]

We will compete at the level commensurate with our new financial status. It won’t be anything special, Yam/Dons level, but hopefully we’ll push on from there.

Of course we need to get there first this year.

[JimBHibees]

Is this gonna be the theme for the rest of the season (and/or) Montgomery's tenure?

One defeat from now on and it's off with his heid :rolleyes:

If that's going to be the approach then there's no way back for him. Then the same pitchfork mob will start calling for Neil "Oh poor me" Lennon back and start greetin when he doesn't get the job.

Need stability, need to let Montgomery get a full pre season under his belt otherwise it'll be chop and change every bloody season.

Couldn’t agree more

[VoltaireHibs]

I agree to a certain extent. 'Success' in Europe for all Scottish clubs bar the Old Firm is winning a couple of ties - or making a bit of money like the sheep and yams by getting into the group stages (even if you barely win a game). Unless we have investment at a level which can take us further Europe will remain mostly just a change of scene and a bit of fun for the fans. Is that a hindrance to progress domestically? You could argue it was this season, judging by the way we started the league campaign. But then without the Luzern tie we'd have missed one of our best European results in many years.

Yeah, I totally get it from the fan perspective. But if a good close season with lots of new players bedding in results in a great season and third place then that would be a fair trade off for me. Guaranteed group games the following year.

Next season will be wide open I think. Aberdeen will be who knows what, Hearts more than likely will not have Shankland who has scored around 50% of their league goals this campaign. Third is right up for grabs, I'd rather we came out and had a really good start and built from their rather than fly around Europe getting our backside handed to us and disrupting everything.

[He's here!]

Yeah, I totally get it from the fan perspective. But if a good close season with lots of new players bedding in results in a great season and third place then that would be a fair trade off for me. Guaranteed group games the following year.

Next season will be wide open I think. Aberdeen will be who knows what, Hearts more than likely will not have Shankland who has scored around 50% of their league goals this campaign. Third is right up for grabs, I'd rather we came out and had a really good start and built from their rather than fly around Europe getting our backside handed to us and disrupting everything.

Yep, I'm with you on that.

Personally I think there are far too many European places available. I certainly don't think finishing 5th in Scotland's top flight should earn you a place. And as for the top 4 in England getting into the so-called 'Champions' League it's just plain daft. Just my opinion but we should go back to the European Cup format whereby only title winners qualify for the elite event. 2nd and 3rd would get into the other two competitions and that's it. And none of this 'parachute' nonsense once you're out. Removes at a stroke scores of near meaningless ties and makes being in Europe a barometer of excellence (and an incentive to improve), not just a fun trip for fans.

[VoltaireHibs]

Yep, I'm with you on that.

Personally I think there are far too many European places available. I certainly don't think finishing 5th in Scotland's top flight should earn you a place. And as for the top 4 in England getting into the so-called 'Champions' League it's just plain daft. Just my opinion but we should go back to the European Cup format whereby only title winners qualify for the elite event. 2nd and 3rd would get into the other two competitions and that's it. And none of this 'parachute' nonsense once you're out. Removes at a stroke scores of near meaningless ties and makes being in Europe a barometer of excellence (and an incentive to improve), not just a fun trip for fans.

Yes, different debate but Euro competition is bloated nowadays. It's become pretty boring. Can't remember the last time I watched a champs league match. Almost zero interest in that. Ditto the EPL, that stuff has very little to do with the sport we watch week in week out. As Aston Villa showed us.

[poolman]

Is this gonna be the theme for the rest of the season (and/or) Montgomery's tenure?

One defeat from now on and it's off with his heid :rolleyes:

If that's going to be the approach then there's no way back for him. Then the same pitchfork mob will start calling for Neil "Oh poor me" Lennon back and start greetin when he doesn't get the job.

Need stability, need to let Montgomery get a full pre season under his belt otherwise it'll be chop and change every bloody season.



Absolutely

[One Day Soon]

Is this gonna be the theme for the rest of the season (and/or) Montgomery's tenure?

One defeat from now on and it's off with his heid :rolleyes:

If that's going to be the approach then there's no way back for him. Then the same pitchfork mob will start calling for Neil "Oh poor me" Lennon back and start greetin when he doesn't get the job.

Need stability, need to let Montgomery get a full pre season under his belt otherwise it'll be chop and change every bloody season.

As to the rest of this season and the theme under NM’s time, that is entirely up to him. Win a decent number of games and play a decent brand of football and he’ll be fine, fail to do that and he’ll face the consequences.

As for the Neil Lennon stuff, I think you’re inventing a perfectly overlapping circle that doesn’t exist between people with doubts about NM and people who want Lennon back.

[matty_f]

Is this gonna be the theme for the rest of the season (and/or) Montgomery's tenure?

One defeat from now on and it's off with his heid :rolleyes:

If that's going to be the approach then there's no way back for him. Then the same pitchfork mob will start calling for Neil "Oh poor me" Lennon back and start greetin when he doesn't get the job.

Need stability, need to let Montgomery get a full pre season under his belt otherwise it'll be chop and change every bloody season.

Wasn’t even a defeat that had the knives out last week, a draw was enough.

[Rumble de Thump]

As to the rest of this season and the theme under NM’s time, that is entirely up to him. Win a decent number of games and play a decent brand of football and he’ll be fine, fail to do that and he’ll face the consequences.

As for the Neil Lennon stuff, I think you’re inventing a perfectly overlapping circle that doesn’t exist between people with doubts about NM and people who want Lennon back.

The behaviour of the refs and VARs this season has made it clearer than ever that it's not entirely up to him.

[One Day Soon]

The behaviour of the refs and VARs this season has made it clearer than ever that it's not entirely up to him.

Yet he managed a very comfortable win on Saturday without a ref or VAR problem. And we have a large number of supporters cutting him slack whenever there has been a ref/VAR issue so he’s getting breathing space.

His future is in his own hands.

[matty_f]

Yet he managed a very comfortable win on Saturday without a ref or VAR problem. And we have a large number of supporters cutting him slack whenever there has been a ref/VAR issue so he’s getting breathing space.

His future is in his own hands.

It certainly helps when the referee doesn’t throw a spanner in the works.

[007]

Yet he managed a very comfortable win on Saturday without a ref or VAR problem. And we have a large number of supporters cutting him slack whenever there has been a ref/VAR issue so he’s getting breathing space.

His future is in his own hands.

That's right, no ref or VAR problems and we got a win. Previously numerous ref or VAR problems, arguably costing us wins.

Do you think we've had as many dubious decisions go for us as have gone against us?

[Donegal Hibby]

Yet he managed a very comfortable win on Saturday without a ref or VAR problem. And we have a large number of supporters cutting him slack whenever there has been a ref/VAR issue so he’s getting breathing space.

His future is in his own hands.

It didn't feel like he was getting cut much slack after some of the terrible Ref/ VAR decisions TBH .🤔

[ElginHibee]

Wasn’t even a defeat that had the knives out last week, a draw was enough.

And it was spirit-crushingly draining to see. I don't understand why there are so many folks with knives out for Monty, it feels like some people have never forgiven him for not being McInnes or Lennon.

[matty_f]

And it was spirit-crushingly draining to see. I don't understand why there are so many folks with knives out for Monty, it feels like some people have never forgiven him for not being McInnes or Lennon.

I was really frustrated that we didn’t win last Wednesday, and the fact that with it, our top six chances were taken out of our hands but then you look at our form over the last six league games and we’re only behind Rangers and Celtic over that period.

We’ve only lost one more game than Hearts, I think, and have not scored more than them over the course of the season (league goals). We’re clearly not where we want to be, but i think there are things you can point to that show we’re heading the right way.

[Paulie Walnuts]

And it was spirit-crushingly draining to see. I don't understand why there are so many folks with knives out for Monty, it feels like some people have never forgiven him for not being McInnes or Lennon.

You don’t understand why folk have knives out for a manager that has us in a toss up for top 6? Really?

I’d suggest the performances are what people have never forgiven him for. Not the fact he’s not McInnes or Lennon. If he’d done well then he’d be getting praise. At this point in time, he hasn’t done very well.

[Tambo]

Does 5th get you Europe again for next season if it's not Aberdeen that win the cup?

Europe should be our aim every season with the resources we now have at our disposal, would also attract players and keep the current ones we have on loan.

Was very unlucky to draw Villa and on another day with a better draw who knows.

[JohnM1875]

Does 5th get you Europe again for next season if it's not Aberdeen that win the cup?

Europe should be our aim every season with the resources we now have at our disposal, would also attract players and keep the current ones we have on loan.

Was very unlucky to draw Villa and on another day with a better draw who knows.

It does aye, potentially the last season for that though. So we'll just need to win the league next year to guarantee it.

[jacomo]

And it was spirit-crushingly draining to see. I don't understand why there are so many folks with knives out for Monty, it feels like some people have never forgiven him for not being McInnes or Lennon.


We talk about managers having credit or debt in the bank and it’s a decent analogy.

NM moved into his overdraft with a run of poor results. He needs to build up his credit again with more good performances.

[ElginHibee]

You don’t understand why folk have knives out for a manager that has us in a toss up for top 6? Really?

Yes, there have been terrible performances and yes, he's made mistakes. Have performances and results improved? We're in a fight for 6th, do you remember our league position when last manager left? Which I might add was after we'd played 2 teams currently below us.


I’d suggest the performances are what people have never forgiven him for. Not the fact he’s not McInnes or Lennon. If he’d done well then he’d be getting praise. At this point in time, he hasn’t done very well.

There have been fans (on here, I've not been in Edinburgh to hear the word on the street) that have criticised and micro-analysed everything Monty has done since day 1 desperate to say I told you so at every opportunity.

Is Monty perfect, absolutely not. Do I hope he can learn and improve, yep. I'm willing to give him time.

[ElginHibee]

We talk about managers having credit or debt in the bank and it’s a decent analogy.

NM moved into his overdraft with a run of poor results. He needs to build up his credit again with more good performances.

I would agree with that, the St Mirren game had me thinking we (he) were in trouble. But as Matty pointed out our form is decent and we have definitely not had a fair distribution of refereeing mistakes to help with that.

[Donegal Hibby]

We talk about managers having credit or debt in the bank and it’s a decent analogy.

NM moved into his overdraft with a run of poor results. He needs to build up his credit again with more good performances.

6 unbeaten in the league with some very good performances thrown in should have though I suspect even though everyone knows our next game is like " mission impossible" the knives will come out again probably.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yes, there have been terrible performances and yes, he's made mistakes. Have performances and results improved? We're in a fight for 6th, do you remember our league position when last manager left? Which I might add was after we'd played 2 teams currently below us.



There have been fans (on here, I've not been in Edinburgh to hear the word on the street) that have criticised and micro-analysed everything Monty has done since day 1 desperate to say I told you so at every opportunity.

Is Monty perfect, absolutely not. Do I hope he can learn and improve, yep. I'm willing to give him time.

It’s a bit of a false equivalence using 3 games into the season as the benchmark. Start the season with a couple of wins and you can find yourself top of the league, it doesn’t mean you’re the best team in the league though. We had also just finished 5th the previous season and beaten a very good team in Europe in Luzern. Would Montgomery have managed the Luzern result for example? From what we’ve saw so far, I doubt it.

Montgomery came in and won 2 of his first 10 games. He went on a wee run in the middle and then back on a shocker. It’s hardly a surprise that folk have never really taken to him with a record like that.

Everyone hopes he can learn and improve. He needs short term successes to get the time to do that though. Finishing bottom 6 would be an absolute disaster of a season and it would be on him.

[B.H.F.C]

I was really frustrated that we didn’t win last Wednesday, and the fact that with it, our top six chances were taken out of our hands but then you look at our form over the last six league games and we’re only behind Rangers and Celtic over that period.

We’ve only lost one more game than Hearts, I think, and have not scored more than them over the course of the season (league goals). We’re clearly not where we want to be, but i think there are things you can point to that show we’re heading the right way.

We’ve undoubtedly been heading the right way over the last six weeks. And it’s not really any surprise that it’s coincided with players coming back and players coming in.

It’s clear as day that results earlier in the season weren’t good enough. Some folk think there’s a reasonable amount of mitigation for it, some don’t. I don’t think we will, but it’s possible we could end up missing out on the top six despite being on a good run of form. I guess that would leave the board with a big decision to make. Do they act based on the outcome or do they judge based on where they think we’re going, rather than where we’re at?

[matty_f]

We’ve undoubtedly been heading the right way over the last six weeks. And it’s not really any surprise that it’s coincided with players coming back and players coming in.

It’s clear as day that results earlier in the season weren’t good enough. Some folk think there’s a reasonable amount of mitigation for it, some don’t. I don’t think we will, but it’s possible we could end up missing out on the top six despite being on a good run of form. I guess that would leave the board with a big decision to make. Do they act based on the outcome or do they judge based on where they think we’re going, rather than where we’re at?
I think they stick in those circumstances. Some will spit the dummy at the very thought of that, and you know what, so might the club, but my gut feeling is that those working closely with Monty see what he’s about and will keep him on.

I think i would, as well.

[One Day Soon]

That's right, no ref or VAR problems and we got a win. Previously numerous ref or VAR problems, arguably costing us wins.

Do you think we've had as many dubious decisions go for us as have gone against us?

No I do not, but without wanting to re-rehearse earlier debates he has also not done himself favours in some of those games and his players that he coaches have continued to make some elementary mistakes. So it cuts both ways to an extent. He's the manager, it's his job to make sure we have the players, formation, tactics and training to overcome whatever is in front of him. He'll either earn the right to carry on managing next season over these remaining games or he won't.

I want to believe that we have turned a corner, that some of the dreadful football of earlier in the season - particularly the painful to watch passing back and forth across the back line stuff - is gone for good and that he is getting the central defence's serial concession of simple goals ironed out. I remain a pessimistic optimist on all that. Hopefully he proves me wrong.

[Kato]

And it was spirit-crushingly draining to see. I don't understand why there are so many folks with knives out for Monty, it feels like some people have never forgiven him for not being McInnes or Lennon.

Or Roy Keane.

Nit-pickers are gonna nit-pick.

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[Since452]

It’s a bit of a false equivalence using 3 games into the season as the benchmark. Start the season with a couple of wins and you can find yourself top of the league, it doesn’t mean you’re the best team in the league though. We had also just finished 5th the previous season and beaten a very good team in Europe in Luzern. Would Montgomery have managed the Luzern result for example? From what we’ve saw so far, I doubt it.

Montgomery came in and won 2 of his first 10 games. He went on a wee run in the middle and then back on a shocker. It’s hardly a surprise that folk have never really taken to him with a record like that.

Everyone hopes he can learn and improve. He needs short term successes to get the time to do that though. Finishing bottom 6 would be an absolute disaster of a season and it would be on him.

Agree with that. In the 3 league games we lost at the start of the season sandwiched in between the European games, we scored 5 goals and were creating a lot of chances. We also progressed in the cup. I think we almost certainly would have been higher up the league now if LJ had stayed. That's not to say i wanted him to stay in the end.

There's no doubt the new players and change in system have made a big difference. It's just a pity it took him so long to change something that clearly wasn't working and caused our season to become very late lunge to get in the top six. Could have been so much more with the players at our disposal. Some of the football has been painful to watch under Montgomery but it has improved, and with any luck he's learned his lesson.

[Smartie]

Agree with that. In the 3 league games we lost at the start of the season sandwiched in between the European games, we scored 5 goals and were creating a lot of chances. We also progressed in the cup. I think we almost certainly would have been higher up the league now if LJ had stayed. That's not to say i wanted him to stay in the end.

There's no doubt the new players and change in system have made a big difference. It's just a pity it took him so long to change something that clearly wasn't working and caused our season to become very late lunge to get in the top six. Could have been so much more with the players at our disposal. Some of the football has been painful to watch under Montgomery but it has improved, and with any luck he's learned his lesson.

Sacking Johnson just as we were approaching the business end of the transfer window was the most idiotic part.

Montgomery deserves credit for our recent improvements but I reckon they're mainly down to us having a significantly higher quality of player to be able to call upon. Triantis, NMW, Marcondes and Amos are a ridiculously huge improvement on the options we previously had for the most important part of the team. Whilst I don't think we'd have signed similar without the black knights being on the horizon, I do think that Lee Johnson and a strong end to the August window would have achieved more than the pretty grim Montgomery period from taking over through to "that St Mirren game".

Whatever we do and whoever we choose to be our manager, we simply cannot be timing stuff that badly in future. If Monty is not going to be the man, make the call early. If he is, back him even if there is early unrest.

FWIW I'd be amazed if we didn't have a pretty ropey start to next season due to the amount of rebuilding work that's going to be needing to be done to the squad this summer - and if results are poor with a threadbare squad, that's not going to be on the manager.

[jacomo]

And it was spirit-crushingly draining to see. I don't understand why there are so many folks with knives out for Monty, it feels like some people have never forgiven him for not being McInnes or Lennon.


Personally I think sacking Jack Ross broke the seal, and now impatience has become the default setting.

We were on a poor run under Jack, but we’d also had a decent Covid season and were a week away from the League Cup Final… one of just two trophies we have been able to realistically target for the past 40+ years. Sacking him at that time was a huge mistake and was compounded by appointing the wrong person to replace him.

This won’t change until we have a manager who stays the course, through inevitable ups and downs, for at least three seasons.

I’ve backed NM from the beginning and hope we are now on the path to success.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Whatever we do and whoever we choose to be our manager, we simply cannot be timing stuff that badly in future. If Monty is not going to be the man, make the call early. If he is, back him even if there is early unrest.

Absolutely agree with this. Whatever decision the board make, they absolutely have to be decisive. Everyone will have different opinions on whether that means keeping or sacking Montgomery, but the last thing we need is finishing 6th/7th, starting next season with NM in charge and binning him early doors.

[WhileTheChief..]

There have been fans (on here, I've not been in Edinburgh to hear the word on the street) that have criticised and micro-analysed everything Monty has done since day 1 desperate to say I told you so at every opportunity.

Is Monty perfect, absolutely not. Do I hope he can learn and improve, yep. I'm willing to give him time.

In the same way that there are fans on here desperate for NM to succeed just to prove they’re not wrong in wanting to keep him?!

Nah. Thought not. Why’s is it these things only work one way?

Nobody wants rid of NM just so they can come on here and say they were right. Absolutely nobody.

[ekhibee]

For me things haven't improved just because we've got players back, it's also because NM has stopped using the 442 system which clearly didn't work. I still can't work out why he played Marcondes up front in 2 games but probably that was just a brain fart.

[Kato]

For me things haven't improved just because we've got players back, it's also because NM has stopped using the 442 system which clearly didn't work. I still can't work out why he played Marcondes up front in 2 games but probably that was just a brain fart.

When Marcondes was further forward it was probably because he knew those sides would surrender territory, so get a clever player in and about those two banks of four. He wasn't playing as forward, more with his back to goal.

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[blackpoolhibs]

When Marcondes was further forward it was probably because he knew those sides would surrender territory, so get a clever player in and about those two banks of four. He wasn't playing as forward, more with his back to goal.

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I wonder if ALF could have done that, and left our best creative player in the position he plays best, radical i know but just an idea?

[Smartie]

I wonder if ALF could have done that, and left our best creative player in the position he plays best, radical i know but just an idea?

That would appear logical. I can only guess that at his age and after a fairly lengthy injury lay off, ALF maybe wasn't ready to be starting and playing as big a chunk of matches as he now appears to be ready to play until very recently?

[Hibernian Verse]

I wonder if ALF could have done that, and left our best creative player in the position he plays best, radical i know but just an idea?

I'd wager that if Monty had to explain himself to blackpoolhibs and hibs.net in general then most of us would probably leave the conversation thinking "well that makes sense".

There are many more variables that go into a team selection than we see from the outside. Not least physio/doctor medical advice on how many minutes a player should be getting that week.

[Kato]

.

[Kato]

I'd wager that if Monty had to explain himself to blackpoolhibs and hibs.net in general then most of us would probably leave the conversation thinking "well that makes sense".

There are many more variables that go into a team selection than we see from the outside. Not least physio/doctor medical advice on how many minutes a player should be getting that week.The coaching and physio staff work with the players every day.

I'll leave it at that.

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[VoltaireHibs]

In the same way that there are fans on here desperate for NM to succeed just to prove they’re not wrong in wanting to keep him?!

Nah. Thought not. Why’s is it these things only work one way?

Nobody wants rid of NM just so they can come on here and say they were right. Absolutely nobody.


It's the same every time. I would be absolutely delighted if NM turned into the second coming of Pep Guardiola. I just feel the chances are slim.

But with the new investment and improvements at ER maybe the rising tide, will indeed, lift all ships, including NM.

[blackpoolhibs]

That would appear logical. I can only guess that at his age and after a fairly lengthy injury lay off, ALF maybe wasn't ready to be starting and playing as big a chunk of matches as he now appears to be ready to play until very recently?


Maybe aye maybe naw

I'd wager that if Monty had to explain himself to blackpoolhibs and hibs.net in general then most of us would probably leave the conversation thinking "well that makes sense".

There are many more variables that go into a team selection than we see from the outside. Not least physio/doctor medical advice on how many minutes a player should be getting that week.

We'd not need a messageboard if we were to just agree with everything we were told by a football manager.

[Hibernian Verse]

Maybe aye maybe naw


We'd not need a messageboard if we were to just agree with everything we were told by a football manager.

No one's saying you need to agree, both of us are just pointing out you don't have all the facts and that there may have been good reason.

[LaMotta]

In the same way that there are fans on here desperate for NM to succeed just to prove they’re not wrong in wanting to keep him?!

Nah. Thought not. Why’s is it these things only work one way?

Nobody wants rid of NM just so they can come on here and say they were right. Absolutely nobody.

:agree:

A more common occurence is people who have backed the manager so strongly since before he was appointed and now seem unwilling to accept any scrutiny or criticism of his decisions.

I think (hope) he will still be here next season. Getting criticism along the way will be inevitable.

[O'Rourke3]

:agree:

A more common occurence is people who have backed the manager so strongly since before he was appointed and now seem unwilling to accept any scrutiny or criticism of his decisions.

I think (hope) he will still be here next season. Getting criticism along the way will be inevitable.More common than the folks that didn't want him and haven't shut up since?

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[Kato]

:agree:

A more common occurence is people who have backed the manager so strongly since before he was appointed and now seem unwilling to accept any scrutiny or criticism of .

Are you referring to another forum or something?

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[ElginHibee]

In the same way that there are fans on here desperate for NM to succeed just to prove they’re not wrong in wanting to keep him?!

There's something wrong with a supporter being desperate for a manager (and by extension the team) to succeed? And I wouldn't class myself as being 100% behind Monty without question, after St Mirren I was seriously worried it was going wrong but he turned our form around and has earned at minimum til the end of the season.


Nobody wants rid of NM just so they can come on here and say they were right. Absolutely nobody.

I'd hope not but as I said it FEELS like there are folks around who are willing to jump on anything to say 'I told you so'. For example, a draw in a run of five games (at that time) without defeat being grounds for dismissal.

[LaMotta]

More common than the folks that didn't want him and haven't shut up since?

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Probably a handful in both camps.


Are you referring to another forum or something?

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No!

[Hibernian Verse]

I'd hope not but as I said it FEELS like there are folks around who are willing to jump on anything to say 'I told you so'. For example, a draw in a run of five games (at that time) without defeat being grounds for dismissal.

Emotional Intelligence, or lack thereof.

[Sergio sledge]

Agree with that. In the 3 league games we lost at the start of the season sandwiched in between the European games, we scored 5 goals and were creating a lot of chances. We also progressed in the cup. I think we almost certainly would have been higher up the league now if LJ had stayed. That's not to say i wanted him to stay in the end.

There's no doubt the new players and change in system have made a big difference. It's just a pity it took him so long to change something that clearly wasn't working and caused our season to become very late lunge to get in the top six. Could have been so much more with the players at our disposal. Some of the football has been painful to watch under Montgomery but it has improved, and with any luck he's learned his lesson.

The bit in bold, I'm not sure what that's based on. Including all games as 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw, Monty has a slightly better points per game record than Johnson had (based on soccerbase stats).

Although we created more chances and perhaps played more attacking football under Johnson, we also had a much leakier defence. His team last season (in the league) was conceding goals at a rate of 1.55 goals per game and scoring at a rate of 1.5 goals per game. The three (league) games at the start of the season he had we were much worse, conceding 8 goals in 3 games to Livi (who have scored less than a goal a game) , St Mirren and Motherwell.

The main difference between us and Hearts is that we've drawn too many games, they've only lost 1 less game than us... Of the 11 games we've drawn we were ahead at some point in 7 of them and 2 goals ahead in two of them. That's been the biggest failing of this team and that, in my opinion, is down to the players mentality the availability of players (injury and international duty), and not helped by the substitutions and tactics of the manager. It's not been a single thing on its own, but all those things have played a part at various points.

[LaMotta]

The bit in bold, I'm not sure what that's based on. Including all games as 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw, Monty has a slightly better points per game record than Johnson had (based on soccerbase stats).

Although we created more chances and perhaps played more attacking football under Johnson, we also had a much leakier defence. His team last season (in the league) was conceding goals at a rate of 1.55 goals per game and scoring at a rate of 1.5 goals per game. The three (league) games at the start of the season he had we were much worse, conceding 8 goals in 3 games to Livi (who have scored less than a goal a game) , St Mirren and Motherwell.

The main difference between us and Hearts is that we've drawn too many games, they've only lost 1 less game than us... Of the 11 games we've drawn we were ahead at some point in 7 of them and 2 goals ahead in two of them. That's been the biggest failing of this team and that, in my opinion, is down to the players mentality the availability of players (injury and international duty), and not helped by the substitutions and tactics of the manager. It's not been a single thing on its own, but all those things have played a part at various points.

Think this is spot on.

[WhileTheChief..]

There's something wrong with a supporter being desperate for a manager (and by extension the team) to succeed? And I wouldn't class myself as being 100% behind Monty without question, after St Mirren I was seriously worried it was going wrong but he turned our form around and has earned at minimum til the end of the season.



I'd hope not but as I said it FEELS like there are folks around who are willing to jump on anything to say 'I told you so'. For example, a draw in a run of five games (at that time) without defeat being grounds for dismissal.

We all want the team to succeed.

Even the folk who want to replace NM would rather see us win. Do that enough and they’ll no longer want to replace NM.

Go on a run of 12 games without a win and more of us will again be calling for him to be replaced.

[ElginHibee]

Go on a run of 12 games without a win and more of us will again be calling for him to be replaced.

And I think that would be way more understandable after having two transfer windows and a pre-season to get things right.

[Houston7]

Think this is spot on.
The bit in bold is far too sensible for this forum! :wink:

[greenlex]

Think this is spot on.. :agree: As do I.

[eastmainsmsh]

Looking back have to admit wasn't sure if it was working but onside with Monty now think this season is transitional and we will see benefit next season

[JimBHibees]

The bit in bold, I'm not sure what that's based on. Including all games as 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw, Monty has a slightly better points per game record than Johnson had (based on soccerbase stats).

Although we created more chances and perhaps played more attacking football under Johnson, we also had a much leakier defence. His team last season (in the league) was conceding goals at a rate of 1.55 goals per game and scoring at a rate of 1.5 goals per game. The three (league) games at the start of the season he had we were much worse, conceding 8 goals in 3 games to Livi (who have scored less than a goal a game) , St Mirren and Motherwell.

The main difference between us and Hearts is that we've drawn too many games, they've only lost 1 less game than us... Of the 11 games we've drawn we were ahead at some point in 7 of them and 2 goals ahead in two of them. That's been the biggest failing of this team and that, in my opinion, is down to the players mentality the availability of players (injury and international duty), and not helped by the substitutions and tactics of the manager. It's not been a single thing on its own, but all those things have played a part at various points.

Your last paragraph is spot on. Would include referee decisions also.

[McGruber]

Looking back have to admit wasn't sure if it was working but onside with Monty now think this season is transitional and we will see benefit next season

Me too. Hopefully keep the momentum going and if we make top 6 can see us finishing 5th though not sure if that sneaks us into Europe through the back door or not?

Finishing in the bottom 6 would be failure - he's had virtually the full season as well, so no excuses. That said, Maloney and Johnson had to go because as well as their failures there were no signs of improvement with them. We have improved since January, with the new players but also the change of shape in midfield and tactically as well. So he is learning and the improvement is there. Do we want to sack him for mistakes made in the past that he's not making now to gamble on someone new, not for me.

I think he is safe either way for next season, top 6 or not. He was lucky to survive after the St Mirren game, if they had pulled the trigger then nobody could have complained. We made the decision to stick with him and from that point, under massive pressure in the following games, he's turned us around. Fair play.

[ElginHibee]

Can't disagree with any of that.

[Since90+2]

We've improved last few weeks, and if we'd not been totally done by ridiculous decisions we'd probably be sitting 4th. Hibs sitting in 4th and potentially finishing in that position is above average for us historically.

Hearts sitting comfortably in 3rd is magnifying peoples claims to bin him. If they were sitting further down the league it wouldn't be as bad. We often claim Hearts are obsessed with us, so let's not mirror that.

A time will ultimately come when he will likely get sacked, that's just the way of the world for a club at our level.

That time isn't now though so those salivating at the prospect of yet another manager will need to keep their powder dry for the moment and give the guy a bit more time.

[VoltaireHibs]

We've improved last few weeks, and if we'd not been totally done by ridiculous decisions we'd probably be sitting 4th. Hibs sitting in 4th and potentially finishing in that position is above average for us historically.

Hearts sitting comfortably in 3rd is magnifying peoples claims to bin him. If they were sitting further down the league it wouldn't be as bad. We often claim Hearts are obsessed with us, so let's not mirror that.

A time will ultimately come when he will likely get sacked, that's just the way of the world for a club at our level.

That time isn't now though so those salivating at the prospect of yet another manager will need to keep their powder dry for the moment and give the guy a bit more time.


Salivating? Think that's all in your head. I'm not impressed by NM but if he turned it around and made a success of it here I'd be absolutely delighted. The thought of a new manager does not fill me with joy, I can assure you of that.

You can think NM is not up to it whilst still hoping he somehow actually is, those two positions aren't untenable. It's just the hope part I struggle with. That and the fact I've rarely seen a manager have a prolonged period, where he's been poor, and then become a good manager.

Maybe NM will buck the trend?

[WhileTheChief..]

We've improved last few weeks, and if we'd not been totally done by ridiculous decisions we'd probably be sitting 4th. Hibs sitting in 4th and potentially finishing in that position is above average for us historically.

Hearts sitting comfortably in 3rd is magnifying peoples claims to bin him. If they were sitting further down the league it wouldn't be as bad. We often claim Hearts are obsessed with us, so let's not mirror that.

A time will ultimately come when he will likely get sacked, that's just the way of the world for a club at our level.

That time isn't now though so those salivating at the prospect of yet another manager will need to keep their powder dry for the moment and give the guy a bit more time.

How you gonna cope if the club decide to go a different way in the summer and change manager?

You gonna sulk and be in a huff at the loss of NM, or will you continue to back your club and hope we do well?

I'd prefer a new manager, but I've got nothing against NM and certainly am not salivating for anything or bumping my gums at all.

Comparing how we do as a club to Hearts has always been a thing. I remember it from primary school age. They are our local rivals and it's obvious that we compare ourselves to them.

If NM gets us finishing higher in the league than Hearts, then that will probably mean Europe and a successful season. Let's see if he can deliver that for us next year, if he's still with us.

[JimBHibees]

We've improved last few weeks, and if we'd not been totally done by ridiculous decisions we'd probably be sitting 4th. Hibs sitting in 4th and potentially finishing in that position is above average for us historically.

Hearts sitting comfortably in 3rd is magnifying peoples claims to bin him. If they were sitting further down the league it wouldn't be as bad. We often claim Hearts are obsessed with us, so let's not mirror that.

A time will ultimately come when he will likely get sacked, that's just the way of the world for a club at our level.

That time isn't now though so those salivating at the prospect of yet another manager will need to keep their powder dry for the moment and give the guy a bit more time.

Agree with that

[Dashing Bob S]

The bit in bold, I'm not sure what that's based on. Including all games as 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw, Monty has a slightly better points per game record than Johnson had (based on soccerbase stats).

Although we created more chances and perhaps played more attacking football under Johnson, we also had a much leakier defence. His team last season (in the league) was conceding goals at a rate of 1.55 goals per game and scoring at a rate of 1.5 goals per game. The three (league) games at the start of the season he had we were much worse, conceding 8 goals in 3 games to Livi (who have scored less than a goal a game) , St Mirren and Motherwell.

The main difference between us and Hearts is that we've drawn too many games, they've only lost 1 less game than us... Of the 11 games we've drawn we were ahead at some point in 7 of them and 2 goals ahead in two of them. That's been the biggest failing of this team and that, in my opinion, is down to the players mentality the availability of players (injury and international duty), and not helped by the substitutions and tactics of the manager. It's not been a single thing on its own, but all those things have played a part at various points.


As has been said, the analysis in the last paragraph is very helpful and highly illuminating when considering our plight. Now that we've upped the quality in our playing staff, and the manager is showing more flexibility and real signs of getting to grips with the game here, we should be converting the bulk of those draws into wins.

I'm seeing proper progress both off and now on the park. Getting rid of Montgomery at this point would be foolish.