What I would like to see.

[flash]

Obviously last night is still raw and is one of a succession of games recently where we don't appear to have had a fair kick at the ball.

Incidentally the worst decision of the lot is still the one at Pittodrie where we didn't get the penalty for handball.

Anyway what I would like to see is our club use its newfound power and get Bill Foley to come out swinging.

Something along the lines of "I was warned before I invested that there were problems up here but now I have seen it with my own eyes its much worse than I suspected."

Having him on our board gives us a powerful voice that we need to make use of and it would be interesting to see how the media and those inside football react when called out by somebody of his stature.

[lyonhibs]

Until about a year ago, nobody had heard of Foley. I think you may be overestimating his "stature" as seen by the Scottish football establishment and the blazers therein.

I imagine if he said that, there'd be some belly aching but no significant structural changes or improvement whatsoever.

[Smartie]

Obviously last night is still raw and is one of a succession of games recently where we don't appear to have had a fair kick at the ball.

Incidentally the worst decision of the lot is still the one at Pittodrie where we didn't get the penalty for handball.

Anyway what I would like to see is our club use its newfound power and get Bill Foley to come out swinging.

Something along the lines of "I was warned before I invested that there were problems up here but now I have seen it with my own eyes its much worse than I suspected."

Having him on our board gives us a powerful voice that we need to make use of and it would be interesting to see how the media and those inside football react when called out by somebody of his stature.

Good post, excellent suggestion.

There have been strong figures at clubs outwith Celtic and Rangers who have managed to - somehow - yield power (Willie Miller at Aberdeen being an excellent referee in his day, arguably Graeme Shinnie being a modern equivalent).

It could be argued that if Foley comes in and continues the meek approach then his investment will end up being wasted.

[DH1875]

We should go down the Alex Ferguson route when he was at Aberdeen.
Question: Do you see a non oldfirm team ever challenging to win the league?
Answer: No, the SFA will never let that happen.
Just call it out and get it in the press. Imagine the exposure even on SKY and stuff if we really came out guns blazing and went for the lot of them. We could even set some money aside from our new investment to pay for all the fines.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

If not now then when?

its like the equivalent of ref pointing at various incidents for persistent fouling.

there’s a long list.

I suppose the trick is how to “play the ball not the man….”

so it has to be about consistent application of the rules - did Da Silva (?) get booked for leaving the field (that one is black and white)

with more US ownership I wonder if wel see them club together but in any case we let the uglies off there hook with the voting rigged in their favor.

Out of curiosity - what is the penalty for walking off the pitch btw?

[flash]

Until about a year ago, nobody had heard of Foley. I think you may be overestimating his "stature" as seen by the Scottish football establishment and the blazers therein.

I imagine if he said that, there'd be some belly aching but no significant structural changes or improvement whatsoever.

Only one way to find out.

[Hiber-nation]

Obviously last night is still raw and is one of a succession of games recently where we don't appear to have had a fair kick at the ball.

Incidentally the worst decision of the lot is still the one at Pittodrie where we didn't get the penalty for handball.

Anyway what I would like to see is our club use its newfound power and get Bill Foley to come out swinging.

Something along the lines of "I was warned before I invested that there were problems up here but now I have seen it with my own eyes its much worse than I suspected."

Having him on our board gives us a powerful voice that we need to make use of and it would be interesting to see how the media and those inside football react when called out by somebody of his stature.

Good post. We need someone with a bit of clout to speak out. While Monty is proving himself to be a decent manager he's hopeless at post match interviews and just can't get his point across firmly. And I'm not sure if many folk would take notice of BK.

[lyonhibs]

Only one way to find out.

Agreed. Just keeping expectations in check 😁

[Jones28]

Good post. We need someone with a bit of clout to speak out. While Monty is proving himself to be a decent manager he's hopeless at post match interviews and just can't get his point across firmly. And I'm not sure if many folk would take notice of BK.

I don't think thats really fair. There's only so much a manager will say in a post match interview, the ones where managers go off on one are very few and far between.

[LaMotta]

Good post. We need someone with a bit of clout to speak out. While Monty is proving himself to be a decent manager he's hopeless at post match interviews and just can't get his point across firmly. And I'm not sure if many folk would take notice of BK.

Agree with this.

Hate to say it but when Hearts went through a spell of being on the end of a few questionable decisions earlier in the season (no where close to as bad as ours) Naismith did a pretty good job post match of robustly calling out the referees and Var without getting himself in trouble.

It hasn't done them any harm at all when you consider the recent decisions they have got in their favour.

I know Monty has mentioned decisions more recently but for me he's been a bit wishy washy with his comments.

[Peanut Shaz]

I expect the length of time it took him to come out for the interview is an indicator he was kept back to calm down and compose himself so he wouldn’t say something that would lead to a touchline ban or worse. I personally think it was for his own good and would hope the club will make a statement at some point today.

[Smartie]

Agree with this.

Hate to say it but when Hearts went through a spell of being on the end of a few questionable decisions earlier in the season (no where close to as bad as ours) Naismith did a pretty good job post match of robustly calling out the referees and Var without getting himself in trouble.

It hasn't done them any harm at all when you consider the recent decisions they have got in their favour.

I know Monty has mentiined decisions more recently but for me he's been a bit wishy washy with his comments.

The reason I like the Foley suggestion is that I do think we lack someone at the club who is a bit of a presence - a good communicator with an intimidation factor. Ron might have gone on to be that man but between the other Gordons, Kensall, Monty and the on-field captain in Newell it’s all a bit meek. You wouldn’t really be scared to **** us over, would you?

[Hiber-nation]

I don't think thats really fair. There's only so much a manager will say in a post match interview, the ones where managers go off on one are very few and far between.

I know but it's the way he comes across. Any point he tries to make just fades away into "well yeah".

[LaMotta]

The reason I like the Foley suggestion is that I do think we lack someone at the club who is a bit of a presence - a good communicator with an intimidation factor. Ron might have gone on to be that man but between the other Gordons, Kensall, Monty and the on-field captain in Newell it’s all a bit meek. You wouldn’t really be scared to **** us over, would you?

100% agree with this. Look at the example of Goldson sprinting over and influencing the ref over Obita's second yellow. Goldson is in the refs ear every week. We need more of that.

[MrSmith]

Has our club released a statement yet? They better be composing one because this needs addressed as a matter of urgency. The corruption - no more incompetence for me - is front and centre now and need to be challenged. Go in like a bull Hibs and put this down now!

[B.H.F.C]

Has our club released a statement yet? They better be composing one because this needs addressed as a matter of urgency. The corruption - no more incompetence for me - is front and centre now and need to be challenged. Go in like a bull Hibs and put this down now!

We won’t say a word and we’ll welcome a full stand of them back to ER post split.

[MrSmith]

We won’t say a word and we’ll welcome a full stand of them back to ER post split.

That is even more scary than the corruption - few good men and all that!

[LaMotta]

Amazingly, headlines this morning are more about Clement calling out a supposed horror tackle. Last week Clement was vocal about the ref not sending off a Motherwell player when McAusland got injured (which was ridiculous as it correctly wasnt even a foul).

Last night I bet that plays on McLean's mind. From now on in every strong tackle on a Hun player and refs will be itching to pull a red to avoid being called out in the press.

[Tyler Durden]

100% agree with this. Look at the example of Goldson sprinting over and influencing the ref over Obita's second yellow. Goldson is in the refs ear every week. We need more of that.

Monty said at the AGM he didn't want our players doing that, in so many words.

Baffling.

I'm happy with the improvements in the team recently but his interviews are not good enough. He should either call the ref out personally and far more strongly (see Rodgers last week) or have his assistant do it. Take the ban.

[wookie70]

If not now then when?

its like the equivalent of ref pointing at various incidents for persistent fouling.
I know this isn't your point but it would be great if we still had players booked for persistent fouling. Unfortunately, they mostly get booked for their first infringement in the game while Shinnie can foul and dive for 90 minutes and sometimes not receive a caution.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Has our club released a statement yet? They better be composing one because this needs addressed as a matter of urgency. The corruption - no more incompetence for me - is front and centre now and need to be challenged. Go in like a bull Hibs and put this down now!

Going off half cocked wont be the answer though. What you need is hard evidence.

EG. The second scorer last night left the pitch to celebrate, but wasn't booked for it, so you need some examples on film of where players from non uglies teams were booked for doing the same thing. Why them and not him?

Moriah - Welsh's challenge wasn't subject to a check by the ref. For a straight red most refs will check the screen themselves, especially to establish if contact was actually made. We need examples of similar challenges by old firm ( sic ) players where no red card was given ... a good source for this would be their derby, where I'll lay dollars to doughnuts there are examples of challenges like Moriah - Welsh's that didn't result in a red card.

In the end the argument here isn't why are non Uglies players treated differently? But why are these two clubs not subject to the same standards as all the other clubs? EG why do the bookings per number of fouls stats consistently year on year favour them? That is not an unreasonable question to ask.

If this issue is to be treated seriously then the 10 other clubs need to be in agreement and fund a serious forensic examination, by professionals in this field, of hours of film and statistical evidence that prove conclusively that two clubs are treated differently from the rest. If the evidence is there, then find it and use it professionally.

The cherry on the top of that evidence, once collated and professionally presented, should be to ask WHY the overwhelming majority of refs in the top flight since the SPL / Scottish premiership was founded ( in fact for over 100 years ) have been drawn from the same part of the country. It simply cannot be the case that only a tiny handful of referees from all points east and north of Lanarkshire have ever reached the required standard. It's like every ref in the English premiership being drawn from Lancashire and Yorkshire, a situation the English would find laughable. And yet in Scotland nobody bats an eyelid.

Chuck in the question as to why referees from Scotland are consistently and almost as a matter of course overlooked by UEFA and FIFA, a situation which the SFA have to regard as a failure.

If we are going to do this, then do it properly and present evidence and statistics that would stand up in court .... opinions and anecdotal evidence are worthless.

[Northernhibee]

You just had to see how we are seen by the reaction when we wanted Celtic to do another round of COVID testing before our game after their Dubai trip. We were made out to be the bad guys by all.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Going off half cocked wont be the answer though. What you need is hard evidence.

EG. The second scorer last night left the pitch to celebrate, but wasn't booked for it, so you need some examples on film of where players from non uglies teams were booked for doing the same thing. Why them and not him?

Moriah - Welsh's challenge wasn't subject to a check by the ref. For a straight red most refs will check the screen themselves, especially to establish if contact was actually made. We need examples of similar challenges by old firm ( sic ) players where no red card was given ... a good source for this would be their derby, where I'll lay dollars to doughnuts there are examples of challenges like Moriah - Welsh's that didn't result in a red card.

In the end the argument here isn't why are non Uglies players treated differently? But why are these two clubs not subject to the same standards as all the other clubs? EG why do the bookings per number of fouls stats consistently year on year favour them? That is not an unreasonable question to ask.

If this issue is to be treated seriously then the 10 other clubs need to be in agreement and fund a serious forensic examination, by professionals in this field, of hours of film and statistical evidence that prove conclusively that two clubs are treated differently from the rest. If the evidence is there, then find it and use it professionally.

The cherry on the top of that evidence, once collated and professionally presented, should be to ask WHY the overwhelming majority of refs in the top flight since the SPL / Scottish premiership was founded ( in fact for over 100 years ) have been drawn from the same part of the country. It simply cannot be the case that only a tiny handful of referees from all points east and north of Lanarkshire have ever reached the required standard. It's like every ref in the English premiership being drawn from Lancashire and Yorkshire, a situation the English would find laughable. And yet in Scotland nobody bats an eyelid.

Chuck in the question as to why referees from Scotland are consistently and almost as a matter of course overlooked by UEFA and FIFA, a situation which the SFA have to regard as a failure.

If we are going to do this, then do it properly and present evidence and statistics that would stand up in court .... opinions and anecdotal evidence are worthless.


I agree.

Sorry for sounding like a broken record - for even more clout and independence get a former ref from a top country (most likely England) who should have the weight of professional experience to add credence to the arguments. Forest have Clattenburg as a referee analyst I’m interested in what this role entails.

Effectively a man on the inside will know how things will be attempted to be explained away and how to identify the chinks in the armour.

for the energy generated we need to channel it appropriately if (and it’s a big if) we are to make any headway with this. But I think it’s reached a point where a line has been crossed. So time for action.

[Centre Hawf]

Until about a year ago, nobody had heard of Foley. I think you may be overestimating his "stature" as seen by the Scottish football establishment and the blazers therein.

I imagine if he said that, there'd be some belly aching but no significant structural changes or improvement whatsoever.

I don't disagree with your point about his stature. But if there is something that Doncaster etc all do fear is how they are negatively perceived by the English Premier League and EFL, it may put some fear in them to hear how much of a shambles they are from both sides of the border soon.

[LaMotta]

Going off half cocked wont be the answer though. What you need is hard evidence.

EG. The second scorer last night left the pitch to celebrate, but wasn't booked for it, so you need some examples on film of where players from non uglies teams were booked for doing the same thing. Why them and not him?

Moriah - Welsh's challenge wasn't subject to a check by the ref. For a straight red most refs will check the screen themselves, especially to establish if contact was actually made. We need examples of similar challenges by old firm ( sic ) players where no red card was given ... a good source for this would be their derby, where I'll lay dollars to doughnuts there are examples of challenges like Moriah - Welsh's that didn't result in a red card.

In the end the argument here isn't why are non Uglies players treated differently? But why are these two clubs not subject to the same standards as all the other clubs? EG why do the bookings per number of fouls stats consistently year on year favour them? That is not an unreasonable question to ask.

If this issue is to be treated seriously then the 10 other clubs need to be in agreement and fund a serious forensic examination, by professionals in this field, of hours of film and statistical evidence that prove conclusively that two clubs are treated differently from the rest. If the evidence is there, then find it and use it professionally.

The cherry on the top of that evidence, once collated and professionally presented, should be to ask WHY the overwhelming majority of refs in the top flight since the SPL / Scottish premiership was founded ( in fact for over 100 years ) have been drawn from the same part of the country. It simply cannot be the case that only a tiny handful of referees from all points east and north of Lanarkshire have ever reached the required standard. It's like every ref in the English premiership being drawn from Lancashire and Yorkshire, a situation the English would find laughable. And yet in Scotland nobody bats an eyelid.

Chuck in the question as to why referees from Scotland are consistently and almost as a matter of course overlooked by UEFA and FIFA, a situation which the SFA have to regard as a failure.

If we are going to do this, then do it properly and present evidence and statistics that would stand up in court .... opinions and anecdotal evidence are worthless.

Agree with much of this but 2 points I want to pick up on.

Firstly, refs will only check a straight red if the VAR official thinks he made a mistake, so they dont routinely go to the screen.

Secondly anecdotal evidence and opinion was used by Clement last week when he spoke about the McAusland incident v Motherwell. Despite it not being a foul it made the headlines and the following week an opposition player is sent off without hesitation. It has its place.

[wookie70]

Agree with this.

Hate to say it but when Hearts went through a spell of being on the end of a few questionable decisions earlier in the season (no where close to as bad as ours) Naismith did a pretty good job post match of robustly calling out the referees and Var without getting himself in trouble.

It hasn't done them any harm at all when you consider the recent decisions they have got in their favour.

I know Monty has mentioned decisions more recently but for me he's been a bit wishy washy with his comments.

Naismith is actually pretty good with the media. For some reason the tap for their penalties and playing against 10 men had been turned off but it only needed him to give a gentle reminder and they were flying again. Pretty sure it coincide with their sprint up the league, there is a surprise. The league below the uglies is very tight. It only takes a few poor decision and teams can go into a tailspin or a few good ones and they go on a run. We have been battling poor decisions for decades and I would say that has a massive part to play in our below par performances in the league over many years. We are not playing on a level pitch and while that can be overcome game to game it will tell over a full campaign

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Going off half cocked wont be the answer though. What you need is hard evidence.

EG. The second scorer last night left the pitch to celebrate, but wasn't booked for it, so you need some examples on film of where players from non uglies teams were booked for doing the same thing. Why them and not him?

Moriah - Welsh's challenge wasn't subject to a check by the ref. For a straight red most refs will check the screen themselves, especially to establish if contact was actually made. We need examples of similar challenges by old firm ( sic ) players where no red card was given ... a good source for this would be their derby, where I'll lay dollars to doughnuts there are examples of challenges like Moriah - Welsh's that didn't result in a red card.

In the end the argument here isn't why are non Uglies players treated differently? But why are these two clubs not subject to the same standards as all the other clubs? EG why do the bookings per number of fouls stats consistently year on year favour them? That is not an unreasonable question to ask.

If this issue is to be treated seriously then the 10 other clubs need to be in agreement and fund a serious forensic examination, by professionals in this field, of hours of film and statistical evidence that prove conclusively that two clubs are treated differently from the rest. If the evidence is there, then find it and use it professionally.

The cherry on the top of that evidence, once collated and professionally presented, should be to ask WHY the overwhelming majority of refs in the top flight since the SPL / Scottish premiership was founded ( in fact for over 100 years ) have been drawn from the same part of the country. It simply cannot be the case that only a tiny handful of referees from all points east and north of Lanarkshire have ever reached the required standard. It's like every ref in the English premiership being drawn from Lancashire and Yorkshire, a situation the English would find laughable. And yet in Scotland nobody bats an eyelid.

Chuck in the question as to why referees from Scotland are consistently and almost as a matter of course overlooked by UEFA and FIFA, a situation which the SFA have to regard as a failure.

If we are going to do this, then do it properly and present evidence and statistics that would stand up in court .... opinions and anecdotal evidence are worthless.


I agree.

Sorry for sounding like a broken record - for even more clout and independence get a former ref from a top country (most likely England) who should have the weight of professional experience to add credence to the arguments. Forest have Clattenburg as a referee analyst I’m interested in what this role entails.

[MrSmith]

Going off half cocked wont be the answer though. What you need is hard evidence.

EG. The second scorer last night left the pitch to celebrate, but wasn't booked for it, so you need some examples on film of where players from non uglies teams were booked for doing the same thing. Why them and not him?

Moriah - Welsh's challenge wasn't subject to a check by the ref. For a straight red most refs will check the screen themselves, especially to establish if contact was actually made. We need examples of similar challenges by old firm ( sic ) players where no red card was given ... a good source for this would be their derby, where I'll lay dollars to doughnuts there are examples of challenges like Moriah - Welsh's that didn't result in a red card.

In the end the argument here isn't why are non Uglies players treated differently? But why are these two clubs not subject to the same standards as all the other clubs? EG why do the bookings per number of fouls stats consistently year on year favour them? That is not an unreasonable question to ask.

If this issue is to be treated seriously then the 10 other clubs need to be in agreement and fund a serious forensic examination, by professionals in this field, of hours of film and statistical evidence that prove conclusively that two clubs are treated differently from the rest. If the evidence is there, then find it and use it professionally.

The cherry on the top of that evidence, once collated and professionally presented, should be to ask WHY the overwhelming majority of refs in the top flight since the SPL / Scottish premiership was founded ( in fact for over 100 years ) have been drawn from the same part of the country. It simply cannot be the case that only a tiny handful of referees from all points east and north of Lanarkshire have ever reached the required standard. It's like every ref in the English premiership being drawn from Lancashire and Yorkshire, a situation the English would find laughable. And yet in Scotland nobody bats an eyelid.

Chuck in the question as to why referees from Scotland are consistently and almost as a matter of course overlooked by UEFA and FIFA, a situation which the SFA have to regard as a failure.

If we are going to do this, then do it properly and present evidence and statistics that would stand up in court .... opinions and anecdotal evidence are worthless.

Yes absolutely spot on.