What constitutes a Reckless and Dangerous challenge?

[PatHead]

Souttar jumps into Boyle getting nowhere near the ball and seriously injured him. So much so The game is held up for 8 minutes and he is carried off on a stretcher straight into an ambulance.

Surely that meets the criteria on every definition.

[Northernhibee]

He’s a Sevco player, don’t be silly.

[PatHead]

Doesn't surprise me and I understand why they never showed a replay but surely it should have at least reviewed?

[Jones28]

The colour of your jersey.

[Itsnoteasy]

John Mcginns assault on the Spurs player today. Absolutely shocking.

[Hibees1973]

It was incredibly naive for Moriah-Welsh to make that tackle.

I expect he was told prior to the game that a tackle like that (whether a red card or not) would always result in a red card against Rangers.

We were still in it before he made that tackle.

Obita & Moriah-Welsh both let us down big time tonight.

[bordergreen]

Souttar jumps into Boyle getting nowhere near the ball and seriously injured him. So much so The game is held up for 8 minutes and he is carried off on a stretcher straight into an ambulance.

Surely that meets the criteria on every definition.

That’s an easy one, any tackle by a Hibs player…

[Callum_62]

It was incredibly naive for Moriah-Welsh to make that tackle.

I expect he was told prior to the game that a tackle like that (whether a red card or not) would always result in a red card against Rangers.

We were still in it before he made that tackle.

Obita & Moriah-Welsh both let us down big time tonight.Last line baffles me

Mikey stewart called it spot on tonight

Never a pen
Ridiculous red for obita
Not a red for NMW

There's zero chance any of these decisions go against rangers

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[PatHead]

Last line baffles me

Mikey stewart called it spot on tonight

Never a pen
Ridiculous red for obita
Not a red for NMW

There's zero chance any of these decisions go against rangers

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Just like the high foot on a Hibs player never merited a free kick on the edge of the box.

[truehibernian]

It was incredibly naive for Moriah-Welsh to make that tackle.

I expect he was told prior to the game that a tackle like that (whether a red card or not) would always result in a red card against Rangers.

We were still in it before he made that tackle.

Obita & Moriah-Welsh both let us down big time tonight.

As did the manager for not hooking Obita at half time and putting a steady experienced head on the pitch in Lewy. Monty needs to learn very quickly that these games you’re always up against not just the opponent but the officials who can’t wait to get their cards out. Obita was absolutely miles off it today and cost us the game. Both reds were correct too for me. The Obita one was the turning point though and that’s down to very poor management.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Souttar jumps into Boyle getting nowhere near the ball and seriously injured him. So much so The game is held up for 8 minutes and he is carried off on a stretcher straight into an ambulance.

Surely that meets the criteria on every definition.

Well it depends...if you are old firm you get..like recently v celtic they got a pen for a head banger.

[MWHIBBIES]

As did the manager for not hooking Obita at half time and putting a steady experienced head on the pitch in Lewy. Monty needs to learn very quickly that these games you’re always up against not just the opponent but the officials who can’t wait to get their cards out. Obita was absolutely miles off it today and cost us the game. Both reds were correct too for me. The Obita one was the turning point though and that’s down to very poor management.

Obita has plenty experience at a high level than Lewis. He's also a much better player now.

[truehibernian]

Obita has plenty experience at a high level than Lewis. He's also a much better player now.

Not on a yellow card and miles off it - you clearly weren’t paying close attention to Obita’s overall play today. Experienced or not he was a red card waiting to happen after his yellow. Poor management which was and had been acknowledged by all the pundits, including those of a Hibs persuasion.

[PatHead]

Not on a yellow card and miles off it - you clearly weren’t paying close attention to Obita’s overall play today. Experienced or not he was a red card waiting to happen after his yellow. Poor management which was and had been acknowledged by all the pundits, including those of a Hibs persuasion.

I hear what you say but remind me why he got a second yellow? He didn't do anything worth a card.

[LunasBoots]

Colour of your Jersey in Scotland

[Don Giovanni]

Just like the high foot on a Hibs player never merited a free kick on the edge of the box.

Which instead of us having a freekick on the edge of their box leads to them breaking up the park and our holding midfielder picking up the games' first booking after 5 minutes - not ideal.

It's the wee things as much as the big things.

[Hibees1973]

Last line baffles me

Mikey stewart called it spot on tonight

Never a pen
Ridiculous red for obita
Not a red for NMW

There's zero chance any of these decisions go against rangers

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

You have kind of contradicted yourself.

It was Rangers we were playing, so these decisions were going to go for them.

The problem we had is that Obita and Moriah-Welsh made the decisions for the referee.

[cammy1969]

Not on a yellow card and miles off it - you clearly weren’t paying close attention to Obita’s overall play today. Experienced or not he was a red card waiting to happen after his yellow. Poor management which was and had been acknowledged by all the pundits, including those of a Hibs persuasion.

100% agree with you obita lost his head tonite, and could see the red card coming sure he got away with one just before his sending off


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[Bobby's Cinema]

The first red, it's just not a second yellow. Marcondes goes down like the rangers man does on that occasion and is dismissed and hauled back to his feet.

The second red the ref just got completely caught in the emotion of it and almost tore his top pocket off trying to get it out so quickly. It was asking for trouble but for me was one of the yellow and a half type luck he doesn't make contact type challenges - not a red.

It's not green-tinted specs. I am just as quick to call out when we get something I don't think we should have.

We are being done here consistently. Another Hibs game ruined by officiating.

[LewysGot2]

Since we complained after the Grey and Green Tribute Act game we have had game after game with dodgy decisions. It’s like they’re flexing their muscles 💪 :rolleyes:

[HibeeMackenzie]

Jumping two yards in front of someone is dangerous, knocking someone out cold is not dangerous

[Carheenlea]

https://i.postimg.cc/XY35Ltgm/IMG-2447.jpg (https://postimg.cc/567jN7TS)


What next? Using the same logic as what is being offered as a reason for the red despite no contact being made, do we see the awarding of a penalty because a player could have fouled a player in the box but ultimately didn’t?

Red carding players because of what “might have happened” is just ridiculous.

[Lago]

Obita has plenty experience at a high level than Lewis. He's also a much better player now.
He is however he was miles off the pace in this game and as time went on he lost the plot, Al so at the penalty to stand with his hands on his hips and not following in as the kick was taken was so poor.

[Yorkshire HFC]

He is however he was miles off the pace in this game and as time went on he lost the plot, Al so at the penalty to stand with his hands on his hips and not following in as the kick was taken was so poor.

Too many Hibs players totally lost the plot yesterday - they had a good chance to beat Rangers yesterday and blew it.

[MWHIBBIES]

Not on a yellow card and miles off it - you clearly weren’t paying close attention to Obita’s overall play today. Experienced or not he was a red card waiting to happen after his yellow. Poor management which was and had been acknowledged by all the pundits, including those of a Hibs persuasion.

He didn't make a second challenge worthy of a booking.

Thing is, he is one of our best players. Can't take them all off after they get booked. Monty probably believed he could fix it, especially sign Obita on his side.

[Lago]

Too many Hibs players totally lost the plot yesterday - they had a good chance to beat Rangers yesterday and blew it.
Agree, being kind I'll say the occasion got to a lot of them.

[StevieT]

A referee will always look at it in the following way - was the player in control? Did he endanger an opponent? The speed of the incident.

As soon as a player leaves the ground with both feet to tackle like this then he has no control on what he makes contact with; the ball, an opponent, or the ground. It is more a matter of luck.

There was no contact with the opponent but other boxes were ticked thus making it a red. I'm not saying that the same decision would be made were the roles reversed (I'm not that silly), but I do understand why the decision was made.
All that being said, the referee took zero time to consider his options or opinion and couldn't get the red card out quickly enough.

[DaveF]

A referee will always look at it in the following way - was the player in control? Did he endanger an opponent? The speed of the incident.

As soon as a player leaves the ground with both feet to tackle like this then he has no control on what he makes contact with; the ball, an opponent, or the ground. It is more a matter of luck.

There was no contact with the opponent but other boxes were ticked thus making it a red. I'm not saying that the same decision would be made were the roles reversed (I'm not that silly), but I do understand why the decision was made.
All that being said, the referee took zero time to consider his options or opinion and couldn't get the red card out quickly enough.

Your last sentence just sums up how he totally disregarded all the options you laid out. He was almost in a panic because he couldn't get the card out quickly enough.

He's a ***** referee, totally Rangers centric and out of his depth.

[dalkeith stu]

Has the criteria changed since Lundstram made the exact same challenge on Doig two season ago?? Wasn't even a foul at Ibrox!!

[JimBHibees]

Since we complained after the Grey and Green Tribute Act game we have had game after game with dodgy decisions. It’s like they’re flexing their muscles 💪 :rolleyes:

What is the grey and green tribute act game?

[PatHead]

A referee will always look at it in the following way - was the player in control? Did he endanger an opponent? The speed of the incident.

As soon as a player leaves the ground with both feet to tackle like this then he has no control on what he makes contact with; the ball, an opponent, or the ground. It is more a matter of luck.

There was no contact with the opponent but other boxes were ticked thus making it a red. I'm not saying that the same decision would be made were the roles reversed (I'm not that silly), but I do understand why the decision was made.
All that being said, the referee took zero time to consider his options or opinion and couldn't get the red card out quickly enough.
Then why was Souttar not sent off for his assault on Boyle? Nowhere near the ball, just takes him out.

[JimBHibees]

Then why was Souttar not sent off for his assault on Boyle? Nowhere near the ball, just takes him out.

Thought at the game appreciate from other end of the ground ff upper that Souttar took out Boyle in the air. Have seen it once since and thought the same.

What is the chat around a Hibs player being caught in the head? Cant remember that.

[wookie70]

A referee will always look at it in the following way - was the player in control? Did he endanger an opponent? The speed of the incident.

As soon as a player leaves the ground with both feet to tackle like this then he has no control on what he makes contact with; the ball, an opponent, or the ground. It is more a matter of luck.

There was no contact with the opponent but other boxes were ticked thus making it a red. I'm not saying that the same decision would be made were the roles reversed (I'm not that silly), but I do understand why the decision was made.
All that being said, the referee took zero time to consider his options or opinion and couldn't get the red card out quickly enough.


I think you are correct in the way it is interpreted but are those the rules.
"A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play."

For me the first para in the rules is very poorly written but my take on it is you have to endanger an opponent and you don't do that when you are tackling the air in front of them. Excessive force and brutality happen every time a player leathers the ball, it is only when another player is involved that the force becomes an issue. There was very little force and no brutality at the point of contact with JL. The second point is similar. You have to lunge at an opponent(lunge I presume means leave the ground and being out of control although the John McGinn red suggests leaving the ground isn't really a factor). Again I don't think MW lunged at his opponent, he lunged at the area in front of him to block the ball.

[Slim Shady]

I think you are correct in the way it is interpreted but are those the rules.
"A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play."

For me the first para in the rules is very poorly written but my take on it is you have to endanger an opponent and you don't do that when you are tackling the air in front of them. Excessive force and brutality happen every time a player leathers the ball, it is only when another player is involved that the force becomes an issue. There was very little force and no brutality at the point of contact with JL. The second point is similar. You have to lunge at an opponent(lunge I presume means leave the ground and being out of control although the John McGinn red suggests leaving the ground isn't really a factor). Again I don't think MW lunged at his opponent, he lunged at the area in front of him to block the ball.

Wreckless is a cautionable offence - not a sending off offence. As per Fifa Laws of The Games.

All about opinions but Moriah Welsh did not lunge at an opponent when challenging for the ball. He was trying to block Lundstram passing the ball down the channel, a trait MW usually does a little snapper in midfieild. Our most effective ball winner.

If we appeal in the correct manner then we would have a huge case for this being overturned.

[whiskyhibby]

Souttar jumps into Boyle getting nowhere near the ball and seriously injured him. So much so The game is held up for 8 minutes and he is carried off on a stretcher straight into an ambulance.

Surely that meets the criteria on every definition.

a reckless and dangerous challenge…….
Anything that gives a ref the excuse to give a free pen against, or red card to any team playing the old firm

[matty_f]

They definitely need to look at challenges like Soutar’s or where players try to “roll” a player jumping for the ball because of the risks of bad injury on landing.

If you get a red card for jumping into a tackle that has no meaningful contact on your opponent, one which hospitalises or potentially hospitalises your opponent should definitely be a red card offence.

[Alex Trager]

Why was their second goal not followed by a yellow card? A mate reckons it is because the same player was (incorrectly) shown a yellow last round and would miss the next if he was booked for leaving the field of play to celebrate.

All the while the ref is stood watching it.

Just another in a long line of shocking decisions on Sunday.

[Sprouleflyer]

https://i.postimg.cc/XY35Ltgm/IMG-2447.jpg (https://postimg.cc/567jN7TS)


What next? Using the same logic as what is being offered as a reason for the red despite no contact being made, do we see the awarding of a penalty because a player could have fouled a player in the box but ultimately didn’t?

Red carding players because of what “might have happened” is just ridiculous.

Ok maybe a bit rash but look at his left leg, moving away from the player so not a two footed challenge, also his right foot on contact with the ball is not what you would call studs up.

[JimBHibees]

Why was their second goal not followed by a yellow card? A mate reckons it is because the same player was (incorrectly) shown a yellow last round and would miss the next if he was booked for leaving the field of play to celebrate.

All the while the ref is stood watching it.

Just another in a long line of shocking decisions on Sunday.

Silva was booked v Ayr in the last round but should have been sent off when Collum bottled out of booking him for a second time hence the reason McLean chose not to book him on Sunday. Collum has previous for that can remember him booking James Forrest at Parkhead for diving. Same player does eaactly the same 5 minutes later Collum does nothing.