Hibs and Hearts

[stoneyburn hibs]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

[Ringothedog]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

Over the history of our clubs they have won more trophies and for the last 40 years have consistently been above us in the league and beat us regularly. They have also had a larger potential support( not by much) to call on. The historic Catholic/Protestant issues of which team to support have probably disappeared to a great degree, although it still exists.

[hibsbollah]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

A Dances with Wolves beat Goodfellas for the Best Picture Oscar one year.
Some people just like rubbish sometimes.

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

They wanted us shut down back in the early days, absolute weirdos then and now 🖕

[Pagan Hibernia]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

They were always the club of 'respectable' Edinburgh, or at least that's how they've seen themselves. Hibs have from the very beginning been seen more as the outsider team.

And you know what, I'm happy with that.

[jakeshibs]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

Our support is a mixture of all religions, think consistency is probably the greater attraction.

[Bostonhibby]

All bigliness but no realistic way of proving it, in the current world there's only one team in Edinburgh that recently won both cups and it isn't the post administration poppy thieves.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[stoneyburn hibs]

A Dances with Wolves beat Goodfellas for the Best Picture Oscar one year.
Some people just like rubbish sometimes.

I don't think I'll get a better response, love it.

[DIXIHIBS]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

Don't be fooled that their support is hugely bigger than ours. Yes at the moment they are selling more than us but that's more to do with relative fortunes at the moment. The year after we won the cup we sold more STs than them and back in 70s we regularly had bigger crowds for example. If they had the same derby record as us over the last 40 years do you think their crowds would be the same. Not a chance. A good Hibs team for a few seasons coupled with a poor Hertz team and nobody would be talking about how 'big' they are.

[B.H.F.C]

***** thread. **** the Hearts.

[stoneyburn hibs]

They were always the club of 'respectable' Edinburgh, or at least that's how they've seen themselves. Hibs have from the very beginning been seen more as the outsider team.

And you know what, I'm happy with that.
That's exactly where I am, and also happy with that.

[RIP]

They are easier to please

[Keith_M]

What a weird thread.

[stoneyburn hibs]

What a weird thread.

Why?
It's a legitimate question.

[Bakerman]

What a weird thread.

Keith, as you well know, it would be called out as weird and not so wonderful, in other countries, but we live in the football world of Scottish football dinosaurs, where Protestant v Catholic hatred still prevails. Rangers v Celtic, establishment v Irish Scottisn. It shouidn't be that way of course not, but the lanarkshire referees still have that establishment rules mantra, and it is why we get the Clancy treatment. Hopefully, with the Gordon's/Black Knights/Foley millions, they can effect change.

[Mcbizz1998]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

Do they? Not by very much if they do.

[Keith_M]

Sorry, 'weird' is a bit over the top.

I just think it's a bit strange to obsess over our rivals having a marginally bigger support.

I also think religion doesn't really play a part in it nowadays. Most if the Hibs fans I know are from a CoS or non-religious background (which covers my family, nearly all Hibbies)

[gbhibby]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?
Was brought up in the West of the city did not know many catholics who supported Hearts, They guys who went to non dom schools tended to be Hearts or Rangers fans,a few did support Hibs but they were in the minority. However when you went to the North Edinburgh non dom schools there were a lot of Hibs fans. Went on holiday abroad and people from the West of Scotland couldn't understand how my Proddy friends were Hibs supporters. Geographically the west side of the city is the most populated part of Edinburgh. So it is a bit of everything. They have been times in the past where our average attendances have been bigger than theirs

[Bakerman]

Sorry, 'weird' is a bit over the top.

I just think it's a bit strange to obsess over our rivals having a marginally bigger support.

I also think religious doesn't really play a part in it nowadays. Most if the Hibs fans I know are from a CoS or non-religious background (which covers my family, nearly all Hibbies)

You say 'nowadays', as if cultures deeply embedded within societies for centuries, are transformed within mere decades. I agree, that there are more Cos than ever, that support Hibernian, but they are mostly modernists, not from the villages and towns that support other such 'traditions', never mind the currants and yams. We need the billionaires like the Foley's of the world to pour the money in to Hibernian, make us the top tribe. the embedded modern folk.

[The Modfather]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

Protestant culture? Leave that kind of thing to Glasgow. They’ve been artificially inflated financially since the 80s. With the greater success (in terms of derby wins and 3rd places rather than translating to cups) which that brings.

[marinello59]

Keith, as you well know, it would be called out as weird and not so wonderful, in other countries, but we live in the football world of Scottish football dinosaurs, where Protestant v Catholic hatred still prevails. Rangers v Celtic, establishment v Irish Scottisn. It shouidn't be that way of course not, but the lanarkshire referees still have that establishment rules mantra, and it is why we get the Clancy treatment. Hopefully, with the Gordon's/Black Knights/Foley millions, they can effect change.

I don’t think religion has any part to play in which Edinburgh team you support these days. There might be a ,minority on both sides who would like to see us copying the big two in Glasgow but the majority of us really don’t care.

[BILLYHIBS]

Ltyf

[JimBHibees]

I don’t think religion has any part to play in which Edinburgh team you support these days. There might be a ,minority on both sides who would like to see us copying the big two in Glasgow but the majority of us really don’t care.

Absolutely spot on

[Bakerman]

I don’t think religion has any part to play in which Edinburgh team you support these days. There might be a ,minority on both sides who would like to see us copying the big two in Glasgow but the majority of us really don’t care.

My post if you read it carefully, was actually about others who do see embedded religion, and bigotry as a relevant issue. I was calling out for the likes of Bill Foley to pour many of his millions into us, to change embedded bigotry, and embedded village town, lanarkshire referee culture.

A level playing field, is that too much to ask for?

[Sparrows tongue]

My post if you read it carefully, was actually about others who do see embedded religion, and bigotry as a relevant issue. I was calling out for the likes of Bill Foley to pour many of his millions into us, to change embedded bigotry, and embedded village town, lanarkshire referee culture.

A level playing field, is that too much to ask for?

I can only assume that you would be asking for thousands of level playing fields?

Am I right?

[Bakerman]

Ltyf

If I do get launched, it certainly won't be for being a yam Billy :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Apart from Polish guys I only know one practising catholic my age mid 30s and he's a hearts season ticket holder. Like homopbia your religion deciding what team you support in Edinburgh is thankfully dying out. Heard that rebel songs used to get sung at Easter Road, people would be baffled to hear that archaic pish there nowadays

Hibs won 4 cups in the last half century hearts 3, nothing to be impressed with. Hearts slightly higher attendances but minimal. Who cares either way. Two medium clubs in a pish league were not talking Barca Real here

[blackpoolhibs]

Lets see who has the biggest crowds when we are finishing higher than them and pumping them more often than not. :thumbsup:

[leith lynx]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

Do they?....one of the great myths of Gorgie culture.

[Bakerman]

Lets see who has the biggest crowds when we are finishing higher than them and pumping them more often than not. :thumbsup:

:agree:

Which is why we need the many millions of investment, higher level management and infrastructure, which is precisely what the Gordon's, Black Knights, and Bill Foley will provide us with.

Mon Hibs

:flag:

[Donegal Hibby]

I don’t think religion has any part to play in which Edinburgh team you support these days. There might be a ,minority on both sides who would like to see us copying the big two in Glasgow but the majority of us really don’t care.

:agree:

[Se7enUp]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

Match attendance, they do, because of their bunker mentality.

Religion has nowt to do with it, nor has it anything to do with anything football related.

[Se7enUp]

Don't be fooled that their support is hugely bigger than ours. Yes at the moment they are selling more than us but that's more to do with relative fortunes at the moment. The year after we won the cup we sold more STs than them and back in 70s we regularly had bigger crowds for example. If they had the same derby record as us over the last 40 years do you think their crowds would be the same. Not a chance. A good Hibs team for a few seasons coupled with a poor Hertz team and nobody would be talking about how 'big' they are.

When they knew they were going to get a do-ing at ER (the 6-2), they disappeared like bum fluff with a face cloth.

Made some ***** excuse about a boycott re over-priced tx ... which were the same price as we had to pay at their hovel.

[Greensunshine]

It’s all about to change!

[James Stephen]

Fascinating subject, the world's oldest Derby match.

There are layers and layers of history and complexity.

Someone should write a book about it...!

https://www.pitchpublishing.co.uk/shop/auld-foes

[BILLYHIBS]

If I do get launched, it certainly won't be for being a yam Billy :greengrin

Was not directed at you Bakerman but I have had my doubts 😂

[BILLYHIBS]

Hibs are a sleeping giant and the BK’s can see the potential

Build a team worth watching and they will come

[JohnM1875]

See even if they do have more fans or as seen as bigger, who actually really cares?

I don’t support Hibs because of how big Easter Road is or how many trophies we’ve won. I honestly find it such a weird thing to care about.

[Allant1981]

I've a few mates that are catholics and support hearts and I'm technically a protestant(have no time for religion) but support hibs so don't think religion has been a factor for years in who support who

[Carheenlea]

Hibs and Hearts are similarly sized clubs with similarly sized stadiums and similar major trophy’s. Fan base is much of a muchness too.

But me of footballs most pointless debates.

[MWHIBBIES]

I think we have as many as them, just more fairweather fans. The building site I was most recently on was crawling with Hibs fans. Only me and 2 others went to games. Others couldn't be arsed because we were *****.

[MKHIBEE]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?
They can have as many fans, trophies, windowless hotel rooms, chip serving counters as they like, they will never, ever, be a better club than Hibs. That’s what matters.

[USA_Hibee]

Why do they have more fans/support than we do?
I don't know or care that they do.
Is it simply a Protestant culture?

The last line of your post..

You have to be at the wind up surely or maybe I've missed something you're referring to? I'm happy to take the "whooosh" if I've missed something 😁.

If none of the above is true then this feels about 40 or 50 years out of date.

[DC_Hibs]

It’s all about to change!

I believe around £2m of the cash injection will go towards the playing squad with a condition of the approval of Black Knight’s share purchase that the majority of the £6m went towards infrastructure (Famous Five, East Mains as examples).

What’s your expectation with this one off - and most welcome - contribution when compared to what HoMFC receive into their begging bowl…..every year.

“There was also a £4.5m donation from benefactor James Anderson included in the latest set of figures for the year to 30 June, 2023. Anderson's contribution, plus just over £1.6m from fans via Foundation of Hearts monthly pledges”

Don’t get me wrong, they’re not exactly blowing the competition away with the massive gulf in turnover BUT I’m reading a lot of pipe dream stuff around our budget. Spent wisely however…..

[JimBHibees]

I've a few mates that are catholics and support hearts and I'm technically a protestant(have no time for religion) but support hibs so don't think religion has been a factor for years in who support who

Absolutely isn't and shouldn't ever be

[He's here!]

Over the history of our clubs they have won more trophies and for the last 40 years have consistently been above us in the league and beat us regularly. They have also had a larger potential support( not by much) to call on. The historic Catholic/Protestant issues of which team to support have probably disappeared to a great degree, although it still exists.

They've won the league the same number of times as us and been relegated more often than us. I think the only trophy they've won more often is the Scottish Cup - a tournament we really should have won more than three times when you look at the crazy number of finals we've lost.

There's little between the clubs in terms of size.

[MrSmith]

Hibs are a sleeping giant and the BK’s can see the potential

Build a team worth watching and they will come

That line made me shudder mate, got me thinking back to the mid 80s for the Duff & Gray era!

Re religion, was brought up in Gracemount, went to Gracie primary and high school, there was probably around a 60/40 split in favour of Hearts but I can't remember many of us even considering religion when supporting the football teams. I remember a couple of isolated Rangers and Celtic fans in the neighbourhood but barely even bothered about them.

[scm70nyd1973]

They can have as many fans, trophies, windowless hotel rooms, chip serving counters as they like, they will never, ever, be a better club than Hibs. That’s what matters.

Incorrect -they are much better at stealing money from charities 👍

Don’t let them forget that - not that I’m bitter about that of course 🤥

[BILLYHIBS]

That line made me shudder mate, got me thinking back to the mid 80s for the Duff & Gray era!

Re religion, was brought up in Gracemount, went to Gracie primary and high school, there was probably around a 60/40 split in favour of Hearts but I can't remember many of us even considering religion when supporting the football teams. I remember a couple of isolated Rangers and Celtic fans in the neighbourhood but barely even bothered about them.

Stand by what I said get quality out on the park and the fans will return

Re religion I went to Catholic school and my dad called me Billy to toughen me up :greengrin

Born in Gorgie my first love was Hearts until I realised the future is green and white

Married a protestant ( Hearts family) our kids ( hibbies) honestly do not know what all the fuss is about when the uglies and Hearts come a calling singing their horrible songs

They don’t give a monkeys

[Keith_M]

You say 'nowadays', as if cultures deeply embedded within societies for centuries, are transformed within mere decades. I agree, that there are more Cos than ever, that support Hibernian, but they are mostly modernists, not from the villages and towns that support other such 'traditions', never mind the currants and yams. We need the billionaires like the Foley's of the world to pour the money in to Hibernian, make us the top tribe. the embedded modern folk.


Are you thinking of the West of Scotland?

I'm from East Lothian and the villages and towns around there (and in Midlothian, Fife, etc) are vastly different from the hotbeds of sectarian division I've experienced living in Lanarkshire.


FWIW, one of my uncles was Catholic, and a Jambo, while the rest were mostly CoS and Hibbies. Which blows the minds of some people I've worked with in Glasgow :greengrin

[Hibernian Verse]

Peak Friday night Hibs.net

[Keith_M]

...

Re religion I went to Catholic school and my dad called me Billy to toughen me up :greengrin.

...


:faf:



Not as bad as a certain DotNeter who called his son Mason, but still :greengrin

[Kato]

I think we have as many as them, just more fairweather fans. The building site I was most recently on was crawling with Hibs fans. Only me and 2 others went to games. Others couldn't be arsed because we were *****.This is correct imho.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Kaiser_Sauzee]

I've a few mates that are catholics and support hearts and I'm technically a protestant(have no time for religion) but support hibs so don't think religion has been a factor for years in who support who

A lot of people think that if they are not a Catholic, they must be a Protestant. This is a peculiarly Scottish thing.

You can be neither.

[Greensunshine]

I believe around £2m of the cash injection will go towards the playing squad with a condition of the approval of Black Knight’s share purchase that the majority of the £6m went towards infrastructure (Famous Five, East Mains as examples).

What’s your expectation with this one off - and most welcome - contribution when compared to what HoMFC receive into their begging bowl…..every year.

“There was also a £4.5m donation from benefactor James Anderson included in the latest set of figures for the year to 30 June, 2023. Anderson's contribution, plus just over £1.6m from fans via Foundation of Hearts monthly pledges”

Don’t get me wrong, they’re not exactly blowing the competition away with the massive gulf in turnover BUT I’m reading a lot of pipe dream stuff around our budget. Spent wisely however…..



Bill Foley is quoted as saying that he wants to see us compete for Europe every single year as a starter, so that the players coming in on loan can get that experience and he also stated that his goal was to eventually start to break into the monopoly of the Old Firm.


How exactly that plan happens I’ve no idea but I know It’s going to take money, a whole lot spending money, it’s going to take plenty of money and it’s going to take time a whole lot of precious time to quote lyrics from a George Harrison song. lol

Now we all know that an initial 6 million won’t even touch the sides so I can only assume there will be future investments made if that’s his goal.

Bill Foley is going to look ridiculous if nothing much changes at ER.
I think we all need to sit back and enjoy some of the players we’ll get on loan for now.

Pipe dream? Maybe? Only time will tell but I’m enjoying what’s on show so far and it’s early doors!

[Kato]

How exactly that plan happens I’ve no idea but I know It’s going to take money, a whole lot spending money, it’s going to take plenty of money and it’s going to take time a whole lot of precious time to quote lyrics from a George Harrison song. lol



To do it right, yes but he seems to have his mind set on it.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[greenlex]

Do they?....one of the great myths of Gorgie culture.
Agreed. There’s nothing between us regards size of support. Just look at Hampden trips they are almost identical. I think its kinda an inferiority complex by us versus a superiority complex by them.

[joe breezy]

Fascinating subject, the world's oldest Derby match.

There are layers and layers of history and complexity.

Someone should write a book about it...!

https://www.pitchpublishing.co.uk/shop/auld-foes

Brilliant - looks a great book - will check it out

Although world football's oldest football rivalry is surely Scotland v England

[monarch]

Agreed. There’s nothing between us regards size of support. Just look at Hampden trips they are almost identical. I think its kinda an inferiority complex by us versus a superiority complex by them.
This is true. Their supporters seem to buy into their self proclaimed bigliness in everything and shout it from the rooftops.

”Biggest glass curtain in Scottish football “ and “Only football club owned hotel situated within the stadium” to quote two of their statements. Who the hell cares.

[Shanksaidno]

Lets see who has the biggest crowds when we are finishing higher than them and pumping them more often than not. :thumbsup:

Spot on !! I cant believe how well fans have stuck with Hibs considering some of the past experiences in Finals, Derbys etc Bet your bottom dollar the Jambos wouldn't have! GGTTH

[Pretty Boy]

I've never really got all that wound up about the fanbase thing. They have a bigger fanbase than us, in the grand scheme of things who cares? When the going is relatively good we both pull comparable numbers, when the going gets tough comparable numbers drift away.

I've always felt Hibs have a bigger fanbase in the city itself but Hearts draw a lot more from the satellite towns, particularly in West Lothian and Midlothian.

I don't really think it's all that controversial to say they have bigger numbers than us, largely because I don't really think it matters. It's not so much bigger than it gives them an insurmountable advantage in the way that Partick Thistle will never be able to compete with Celtic for example.

I can't say I have ever really considered religion in football. My faith and my football are completely separate. I suppose as a historic legacy I was always destined to support Hibs because of my family line (Irish immigrant Catholics) but it's never been at the forefront of my mind.

[A Hi-Bee]

just have a wee look at this somewhat telling picture shown in this Herald report, pretty rich from the west coast media, but the picture says a thousand words. do the parents know they are out at night.

Reduced policing blamed for rising crowd unrest in Scottish football | The Herald (heraldscotland.com) (https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/24157677.reduced-policing-blamed-rising-crowd-unrest-scottish-football/)

[Allant1981]

A lot of people think that if they are not a Catholic, they must be a Protestant. This is a peculiarly Scottish thing.

You can be neither.

So I was brought up going to church every week and was baptised in the local church of Scotland church so I know what religion I am, I just don't care for it now I'm older

[Newcastlehibby]

My post if you read it carefully, was actually about others who do see embedded religion, and bigotry as a relevant issue. I was calling out for the likes of Bill Foley to pour many of his millions into us, to change embedded bigotry, and embedded village town, lanarkshire referee culture.

A level playing field, is that too much to ask for?

Level? I used to love it when we played down the slope for the second half.

[DH1875]

just have a wee look at this somewhat telling picture shown in this Herald report, pretty rich from the west coast media, but the picture says a thousand words. do the parents know they are out at night.

Reduced policing blamed for rising crowd unrest in Scottish football | The Herald (heraldscotland.com) (https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/24157677.reduced-policing-blamed-rising-crowd-unrest-scottish-football/)

A picture never shows the whole story.

[sh00byd00]

I've never really got all that wound up about the fanbase thing. They have a bigger fanbase than us, in the grand scheme of things who cares? When the going is relatively good we both pull comparable numbers, when the going gets tough comparable numbers drift away.

I've always felt Hibs have a bigger fanbase in the city itself but Hearts draw a lot more from the satellite towns, particularly in West Lothian and Midlothian.

I don't really think it's all that controversial to say they have bigger numbers than us, largely because I don't really think it matters. It's not so much bigger than it gives them an insurmountable advantage in the way that Partick Thistle will never be able to compete with Celtic for example.

I can't say I have ever really considered religion in football. My faith and my football are completely separate. I suppose as a historic legacy I was always destined to support Hibs because of my family line (Irish immigrant Catholics) but it's never been at the forefront of my mind.

I think the bigger problem is, the amount of born and bred Edinburgh folk who fill Rangers and Celtic buses. You see a lot of OF fans filling buses in Musselburgh, Porty etc. I'd rather see someone support Hearts than either OF club, yet it's happened for decades. I'm sure heart fans probably feel the same way.

[Carheenlea]

This is true. Their supporters seem to buy into their self proclaimed bigliness in everything and shout it from the rooftops.

”Biggest glass curtain in Scottish football “ and “Only football club owned hotel situated within the stadium” to quote two of their statements. Who the hell cares.

If you have to relentlessly remind people of how big a club you are, you are by definition, not as big a club as you think.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I think the bigger problem is, the amount of born and bred Edinburgh folk who fill Rangers and Celtic buses. You see a lot of OF fans filling buses in Musselburgh, Porty etc. I'd rather see someone support Hearts than either OF club, yet it's happened for decades. I'm sure heart fans probably feel the same way.

It really is frustrating if you happen to be in an Edinburgh boozer when one or both of the cheeks are playing, the folk doing all the cheering would probably struggle to find their way to either clubs stadiums.

[oneone73]

I think the bigger problem is, the amount of born and bred Edinburgh folk who fill Rangers and Celtic buses. You see a lot of OF fans filling buses in Musselburgh, Porty etc. I'd rather see someone support Hearts than either OF club, yet it's happened for decades. I'm sure heart fans probably feel the same way.

I've lived in Musselburgh since 2006. Not seen one yet.

[sh00byd00]

I've lived in Musselburgh since 2006. Not seen one yet.

You see them loading buses outside the Ravvy.

[Since90+2]

The idea that Edinburgh is overrun with old firm supporters doesn't hold weight IMO. A quick Google search shows there's maybe 10 at the most supporters buses who leave, if you have 35 on each that's only 350 fans, not thousands.

Also, go into any local Edinburgh boozer and you can almost certainly guarantee 90% will support Hibs or Hearts. Similarly at school, there was a handful of old firm fans with everyone else being Hibs or Hearts.

Overall, Edinburgh is massively populated by Hibs and Hearts fans. It's just not enough attend games. It just really isn't a footballing city for the size of the Urban area.

[Hibee Daft]

I would disagree that hearts have a bigger fan base, If anything I notice more hibs fans than hearts... but the hearts fans you speak to are more likely to go to games.


I think part of this is not investing enough in our team in the mid 2000s. Rod Petrie was a bit of a penny pincher.

Then when we started to get abit of momentum on the back of the scottish cup win covid hit.

There is a massive amount of hibs fans that have half checked out because of a lack of ambition from the club... but as we all know that is changing

[MWHIBBIES]

I would disagree that hearts have a bigger fan base, If anything I notice more hibs fans than hearts... but the hearts fans you speak to are more likely to go to games.


I think part of this is not investing enough in our team in the mid 2000s. Rod Petrie was a bit of a penny pincher.

Then when we started to get abit of momentum on the back of the scottish cup win covid hit.

There is a massive amount of hibs fans that have half checked out because of a lack of ambition from the club... but as we all know that is changing

Rod Petrie was brilliant for Hibs. Done his job very well. Completed the stadium, training ground, won 2 trophies.

[Pagan Hibernia]

They've won the league the same number of times as us and been relegated more often than us. I think the only trophy they've won more often is the Scottish Cup - a tournament we really should have won more than three times when you look at the crazy number of finals we've lost.

There's little between the clubs in terms of size.

They've won more league cups than us. Which is remarkable when you consider JFK was alive and well when they last got their hands on it.

[Bridge hibs]

You see them loading buses outside the Ravvy.

Im sure there used to be a the rangers bus leave from the Ship inn too

[sh00byd00]

The idea that Edinburgh is overrun with old firm supporters doesn't hold weight IMO. A quick Google search shows there's maybe 10 at the most supporters buses who leave, if you have 35 on each that's only 350 fans, not thousands.

Also, go into any local Edinburgh boozer and you can almost certainly guarantee 90% will support Hibs or Hearts. Similarly at school, there was a handful of old firm fans with everyone else being Hibs or Hearts.

Overall, Edinburgh is massively populated by Hibs and Hearts fans. It's just not enough attend games. It just really isn't a footballing city for the size of the Urban area.

I agree about the actual "city of Edinburgh" part, but in the out lying areas, there are a ton of OF fans. Take Dalkeith, there are a lot of Celtic fans, probably because there is/was a large catholic school. Used to see folk piling on with Celtic and Hibs tops back yonder. Though, i'm not sure if that School is still there, hence the "was". Places like Mayfield, Nitten, Gorebridge etc also have a rather largish share of OF fans. When i was at school, a lot of people supported Dundee Utd because they were the team to beat, then Aberdeen came along. Most of those same folk now follow Celtic/Rangers. I know plenty of Rangers supporters. Not so much Celtic, but that purely because back when i was at school Catholics and non Catholics kinda had their own schools. The younger demographic may have changed (no idea if schools are so heavily segregated in the east), but most of the folk i went to school with in Midlothian were either Rangers or Hearts fans. Then there was us Hibs fans. We were kinda in 3rd place.

I get all of the above is purely anecdotal, but i grew up just outside of Edinburgh (Midlothian), and there were plenty of Rangers fans around. Not a majority, but a fair few. Those on the flip side of the coin probably knew a lot more Hibs and Celtic fans.

Livingston is probably more heavily populated with OF fans because it's more in the West.

[Since90+2]

I agree about the actual "city of Edinburgh" part, but in the out lying areas, there are a ton of OF fans. Take Dalkeith, there are a lot of Celtic fans, probably because there is/was a large catholic school. Used to see folk piling on with Celtic and Hibs tops back yonder. Though, i'm not sure if that School is still there, hence the "was". Places like Mayfield, Nitten, Gorebridge etc also have a rather largish share of OF fans. When i was at school, a lot of people supported Dundee Utd because they were the team to beat, then Aberdeen came along. Most of those same folk now follow Celtic/Rangers. I know plenty of Rangers supporters. Not so much Celtic, but that purely because back when i was at school Catholics and non Catholics kinda had their own schools. The younger demographic may have changed (no idea if schools are so heavily segregated in the east), but most of the folk i went to school with in Midlothian were either Rangers or Hearts fans. Then there was us Hibs fans. We were kinda in 3rd place.

I get all of the above is purely anecdotal, but i grew up just outside of Edinburgh (Midlothian), and there were plenty of Rangers fans around. Not a majority, but a fair few. Those on the flip side of the coin probably knew a lot more Celtic fans.

I think you are probably right about the outlying towns, they do tend to have big OF support. The City of Edinburgh though there really isn't that many Celtic and Sevco fans around, certainly a tiny minority compared to Hibs and Hearts.

[surreyhibbie]

I don’t think religion has any part to play in which Edinburgh team you support these days. There might be a ,minority on both sides who would like to see us copying the big two in Glasgow but the majority of us really don’t care.

:top marks

[ekhibee]

Don't be fooled that their support is hugely bigger than ours. Yes at the moment they are selling more than us but that's more to do with relative fortunes at the moment. The year after we won the cup we sold more STs than them and back in 70s we regularly had bigger crowds for example. If they had the same derby record as us over the last 40 years do you think their crowds would be the same. Not a chance. A good Hibs team for a few seasons coupled with a poor Hertz team and nobody would be talking about how 'big' they are.

This.

[ekhibee]

Rod Petrie was brilliant for Hibs. Done his job very well. Completed the stadium, training ground, won 2 trophies.

Brilliant's not the word I would use for Petrie, although he did a decent job of controlling finances at times when Hibs needed it.

[Hibee Daft]

Rod Petrie was brilliant for Hibs. Done his job very well. Completed the stadium, training ground, won 2 trophies.

List of players we sold around 2007:

Scott Brown - 4.4 Million
Kevin Thomson - 2 Million
Gary O'Connor - 1.6 Million
Steven Whittaker 2 Million
Ivan Sproule - 500k
Derek Riordan -170k
Benjelloun - Undisclosed
Chris Killen -Undisclosed

That's way over 10 Million pounds, we never seen much investment back into the team. For context Wayne Rooney around that time signed for Man United for about 20 Million.

10 Million back then is more like 50 Million now.

[Kato]

List of players we sold around 2007:

Scott Brown - 4.4 Million
Kevin Thomson - 2 Million
Gary O'Connor - 1.6 Million
Steven Whittaker 2 Million
Ivan Sproule - 500k
Derek Riordan -170k
Benjelloun - Undisclosed
Chris Killen -Undisclosed

That's way over 10 Million pounds, we never seen much investment back into the team. For context Wayne Rooney around that time signed for Man United for about 20 Million.

10 Million back then is more like 50 Million now.We were £19M in debt without a sugar daddy or money launderer to divvy up.



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[Greencore]

They wanted us shut down back in the early days, absolute weirdos then and now 🖕

Did they? I thought they gave us our first game.

[MWHIBBIES]

List of players we sold around 2007:

Scott Brown - 4.4 Million
Kevin Thomson - 2 Million
Gary O'Connor - 1.6 Million
Steven Whittaker 2 Million
Ivan Sproule - 500k
Derek Riordan -170k
Benjelloun - Undisclosed
Chris Killen -Undisclosed

That's way over 10 Million pounds, we never seen much investment back into the team. For context Wayne Rooney around that time signed for Man United for about 20 Million.

10 Million back then is more like 50 Million now.

Yes, it was used to keep the club alive and build a training ground. Bit more important than signing slightly better players than we did.

We certainly didn't sell Benji in 2007 either. Id look that one up again.

[hibeerealist]

Don't be fooled that their support is hugely bigger than ours. Yes at the moment they are selling more than us but that's more to do with relative fortunes at the moment. The year after we won the cup we sold more STs than them and back in 70s we regularly had bigger crowds for example. If they had the same derby record as us over the last 40 years do you think their crowds would be the same. Not a chance. A good Hibs team for a few seasons coupled with a poor Hertz team and nobody would be talking about how 'big' they are.


Spot on! IF we showed the same determination to win the derbies (their biggest games) at all costs like they do and go on a run of victories then the cardigans will shrink considerably in numbers

[chrisski33]

****** hearts, ****** their ****ty stadium and hotel etc OPs post smells of a Hearts fan at it!

[hibeerealist]

I believe around £2m of the cash injection will go towards the playing squad with a condition of the approval of Black Knight’s share purchase that the majority of the £6m went towards infrastructure (Famous Five, East Mains as examples).

What’s your expectation with this one off - and most welcome - contribution when compared to what HoMFC receive into their begging bowl…..every year.

“There was also a £4.5m donation from benefactor James Anderson included in the latest set of figures for the year to 30 June, 2023. Anderson's contribution, plus just over £1.6m from fans via Foundation of Hearts monthly pledges”

Don’t get me wrong, they’re not exactly blowing the competition away with the massive gulf in turnover BUT I’m reading a lot of pipe dream stuff around our budget. Spent wisely however…..


The BK's are well aware of this and BF stated quite clearly that giving HFC an advantage over our competitors targeting regular 3rd place and Europe will not be too expensive for them. Why do you think the cardigans are so anti this deal ?

[BSEJVT]

Fascinating subject, the world's oldest Derby match.

There are layers and layers of history and complexity.

Someone should write a book about it...!

https://www.pitchpublishing.co.uk/shop/auld-foes

By some distance my least favourite of your books to date

[Johnny_Leith]

It's easier to support Hearts in Edinburgh. Only the weak-willed gravitate to them.

[Dashing Bob S]

They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

[Bakerman]

They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

Impressive post.

We have some very seriously wealthy factions throwing their financial muscle behind us now. I think the Jambos will be praying that we don't make the top six. If we do, it could be a very interesting game against them, given the vast improvement since the window, and the fact we bossed them at Tiny. The future is very bright for us, certainly there will be some bumps in the road, but the adventure is just beginning.

[Kato]

They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.Infrastructure too. Aberdeen are simply a non starter. Hearts have completed their ground but it has the feel of a 1950s Meccano Abattoir Kit with a rented training facility that is quickly falling out of fashion.

Plus Hearts have the least glamorous, anti-charismatic profile in world football.

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[Since90+2]

They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

They've had a higher average attendance than us for about 19 of the last 20 years, so they clearly do. Attendances in the 70s and 80s have zero relevance in 2024. The only measurable metric is attendance at games, anything else is pure guesswork, so we have to go on the stats we have infront of us.

Not that it actually makes any difference, it's minimal, probably about 10% or so which the attendance figures back up.

[Kato]

They've had a higher average attendance than us for about 19 of the last 20 years, so they clearly do. Attendances in the 60s and 70s have zero relevance in 2024.

Not that it actually makes any difference, it's minimal, probably about 10% or so which the attendance figures back up.They have a more resilient core support no doubt. Many of their stated attendances are however built on lies. The amount of times they announced full houses when it was obvious it wasn't is unreal. Especially from the era when Hibs were announcing actual attendances.

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[Bakerman]

Infrastructure too. Aberdeen are simply a non starter. Hearts have completed their ground but it has the feel of a 1950s Meccano Abattoir Kit with a rented training facility that is quickly falling out of fashion.

Plus Hearts have the least glamorous, anti-charismatic profile in world football.

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They're all Y cardigan, rover driving, sta press wearing owl worshippers. Total roasters.

[Gloucester Hibs]

All bigliness but no realistic way of proving it, in the current world there's only one team in Edinburgh that recently won both cups and it isn't the post administration poppy thieves.

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Nailed it.

[Since90+2]

They have a more resilient core support no doubt. Many of their stated attendances are however built on lies. The amount of times they announced full houses when it was obvious it wasn't is unreal. Especially from the era when Hibs were announcing actual attendances.

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We count attendances as we do, based on tickets sold. So we can't level that at them. The amount of tickets sold but actual bums on seats in the FF lower in particular backs than up.

[Kato]

We count attendances as we do, based on tickets sold. So we can't level that at them. The amount of tickets sold but actual bums on seats in the FF lower in particular backs than up.Up until a few years ago we counted actual people in the stadium. These days we count season ticket holders plus any walk ups. Hearts have never done the former. Even back in the day if they had a poor attendance their fans would come up with excuses like "we don't count the main stand" or some other fairy story.

As I said above they have a more resilient core support but I don't think they have more supporters. Their semifinal attendances for example are usually abysmal.

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[hibeerealist]

They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

Good post DBS this is a cardigan cruncher, tea has been spat oot and bigliness expletives fill their windowless rooms :greengrin

[stoneyburn hibs]

Ltyf

Take a bow, first time in my life I've been called a Jambo.

[Phil MaGlass]

Up until a few years ago we counted actual people in the stadium. These days we count season ticket holders plus any walk ups. Hearts have never done the latter. Even back in the day if they had a poor attendance their fans would come up with excuses like "we don't count the main stand" or some other fairy story.

As I said above the have a more resilient core support but I don't think they have more supporters. The semifinal attendances for example are usually abysmal.

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This is what I remember of their attendance lies

[VoltaireHibs]

Was brought up in the West of the city did not know many catholics who supported Hearts, They guys who went to non dom schools tended to be Hearts or Rangers fans,a few did support Hibs but they were in the minority. However when you went to the North Edinburgh non dom schools there were a lot of Hibs fans. Went on holiday abroad and people from the West of Scotland couldn't understand how my Proddy friends were Hibs supporters. Geographically the west side of the city is the most populated part of Edinburgh. So it is a bit of everything. They have been times in the past where our average attendances have been bigger than theirs


Agree with this. The surprising thing to me is that they aren't actually bigger than they are given their geographical advantage and the fact that football is like male pattern baldness, mostly hereditary. Hibs had a far smaller catchment area of supporters initially, yet we are roughly the same size of support. I would say we've overachieved and they've underachieved. I grew up in the west of Edinburgh and the bit I grew up in there were only me and one other guy that supported Hibs in my age group. Their unbeaten derby run was a hoot... when we finally beat them we went to the local pub to give some back to them and surprise surprise they weren't there. Jambo's really can't take their medicine.

[VoltaireHibs]

They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

And the joy of their fan ownership model is that it takes a 90% yes vote by the fans in order to do a Foley type deal. Never. Gonna. Happen.

They are stuck with that unless they have an existential threat of some sort that unites them. If Anderson decides to stop investing (please, if there is a god...) they are mid table fodder at best. I so much want this to happen just to see their fans reaction to finally being what they have always been, without the financial doping, just another run of the mill SPL club. Not sure even Aberdeen and Warnock being relegated would give me more pleasure.

Great post btw.

[LaMotta]

They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

Key point.

Despite this advantage they have a worse European History than Hibs, more relegations than Hibs and less trophies than Hibs in the last 50 years :cb

[Kato]

They also have a stunted demographic. A noticeably older average age than the Hibs support. They should have made love more and had more babies.

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[VoltaireHibs]

They also have a stunted demographic. A noticeably older average age than the Hibs support. They should have made love more and had more babies.

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But what if they didn't have a sister, how would that work?

[BILLYHIBS]

Take a bow, first time in my life I've been called a Jambo.

😂

[IberianHibernian]

I`ve spent most of the last 40 years in France , Portugal and Spain and have never met a Hearts fan ( or any local who has heard of Hearts ) in all that time but have met several Hibbies . That doesn`t prove much as I haven`t met any Dundee or Killie fans either in that time but what is definitely true is that not many people know Hearts outside UK ( maybe a few in Latvia or other places where they have played in recent years ? ) and even outside Scotland not many people know about them . I was in a pub in Bournemouth the night that Spurs hammered Hearts in Gorgie and it was quite embarrassing ( and at the same time funny ) listening to English folk in pub talking about how bad the Scottish village team were . We`re not exactly famous now either but the Irish name and roots etc always attract interest worldwide . And historically having played in the first European Cup semi final makes us known to football history geeks .
As for present support of Hibs and Hearts in Edinburgh and area , I don`t think there`s much difference in numbers . In pre segregation days , Derbies at both grounds were with nearly 50 - 50 splits ( eg at 7 v 0 game crowd was about 36 000 and there were probably at least 15 000 Hibbies there to enjoy it ) . Hearts always had slightly more season ticketholders because their main stand was slightly bigger than ours and we had a massive terracing so never needed to worry about finding space for our most devoted fans . Since then both clubs have greatly reduced capacities in their grounds and both get bigger crowds than their play probably justifies .

[Kato]

We`re not exactly famous now either but the Irish name and roots etc always attract interest worldwide . And historically having played in the first European Cup semi final makes us known to football history geeks .


Hibs have also have a way broader footprint in popular culture, mostly these days down the legacy of I Welsh and The Proclaimers who are widely known. Scratch the surface of those artists work and the name Hibernian isn't far away.

Sunshine On Leith, the fans renditions, have millions of hits on yt, along with comments from fans from all over the world. They have nothing like that that even compares. Like, zero.



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[Kato]

But what if they didn't have a sister, how would that work?Wouldn't they then go with their brother's sister?

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[VoltaireHibs]

Wouldn't they then go with their brother's sister?

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This has all gone very meta. I have a headache.

[stoneyburn hibs]

😂

Fud

[VoltaireHibs]

Hibs have also have a way broader footprint in popular culture, mostly these days down the legacy of I Welsh and The Proclaimers who are widely known. Scratch the surface of those artists work and the name Hibernian isn't far away.

Sunshine On Leith, the fans renditions, have millions of hits on yt, along with comments from fans from all over the world. They have nothing like that that even compares. Like, zero.



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Fairs fair, if you're of a certain age you will know Hearts in pop culture through things like Combat 18, a Lithuanian conman and the intimidating scarf twirling displays. It's what big clubs do.

[Kato]

intimidating scarf twirling displays..

Dinny, man. Sends a shiver.

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[gbhibby]

Don't care if they think they are a bigger club. Do you see other clubs in cities go on about their attendances to the extent Hearts fans do. Its their comfort blanket. Hearts fans remind you of the guy who is 4 inches but claims he is 7 inches.

[DIXIHIBS]

They've had a higher average attendance than us for about 19 of the last 20 years, so they clearly do. Attendances in the 70s and 80s have zero relevance in 2024. The only measurable metric is attendance at games, anything else is pure guesswork, so we have to go on the stats we have infront of us.

Not that it actually makes any difference, it's minimal, probably about 10% or so which the attendance figures back up.

If we were to dominate the derbys like they have done for 40 years and we were generally finishing higher up the league than them then our attendances would be higher than theirs. The points folk are making is that the overall fanbase of both clubs are very similar.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Don't care if they think they are a bigger club. Do you see other clubs in cities go on about their attendances to the extent Hearts fans do. It’s their comfort blanket. Hearts fans remind you of the guy who is 4 inches but claims he is 7 inches.

and his name…

Justin…

[ekhibee]

List of players we sold around 2007:

Scott Brown - 4.4 Million
Kevin Thomson - 2 Million
Gary O'Connor - 1.6 Million
Steven Whittaker 2 Million
Ivan Sproule - 500k
Derek Riordan -170k
Benjelloun - Undisclosed
Chris Killen -Undisclosed

That's way over 10 Million pounds, we never seen much investment back into the team. For context Wayne Rooney around that time signed for Man United for about 20 Million.

10 Million back then is more like 50 Million now.

You mean back into the club, not the team.

Hibs didn't let Benjalloun go officially till May 2010.

Killen did the dirty on Hibs, after being regularly injured and supported by Hibs and assuring the manager he was going to sign a new contract with them he then tried to sign with Cardiff City but Celtic stepped in at the last minute and signed him on a 3 year contract.

Riordan, after all his badge kissing etc still ran his contract down so that we got virtually nothing for him when he went to Celtic.

Brown and Thomson went as a result of a crooked agent, and his pal in the Daily Record. We shouldn't have sold them IMO.

Great facilities as the training complex has, I'm still waiting to see how much benefit we've got from it, there's nothing like the successful production line of new young players coming through into the first team as so many people were predicting. and probably the best striker we've had in recent times, Griffiths, was a loan deal and Petrie wouldn't fork out 200k to buy him.

So it's all about opinions I suppose. I've got a different one from yours maybe we're both right, in a way.

[Centre Hawf]

You mean back into the club, not the team.

Hibs didn't let Benjalloun go officially till May 2010.

Killen did the dirty on Hibs, after being regularly injured and supported by Hibs and assuring the manager he was going to sign a new contract with them he then tried to sign with Cardiff City but Celtic stepped in at the last minute and signed him on a 3 year contract.

Riordan, after all his badge kissing etc still ran his contract down so that we got virtually nothing for him when he went to Celtic.

Brown and Thomson went as a result of a crooked agent, and his pal in the Daily Record. We shouldn't have sold them IMO.

Great facilities as the training complex has, I'm still waiting to see how much benefit we've got from it, there's nothing like the successful production line of new young players coming through into the first team as so many people were predicting. and probably the best striker we've had in recent times, Griffiths, was a loan deal and Petrie wouldn't fork out 200k to buy him.

So it's all about opinions I suppose. I've got a different one from yours maybe we're both right, in a way.

I think HTC has, for the most part, became a bit of a red herring in the conversation on our successes and failures. I understand why people say they're not sure how much benefit we've gotten from it but you only really need to visit the place to see how much better a club we are for it in comparison to others that just simply don't have anywhere near it.

Of course none of that really matters to some people if we're not winning games of football and the argument can be made that we're producing soft as ***** players, but I can only imagine how much better things like our academy and health and fitness etc have all been for having a permanent place it all happens in.

At the end of the day for me the it's all about how the coaching staff utilise the tools they have to get the best out of their players and HTC is undoubtedly a huge tool in the arsenal for those who come in through the door.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I think HTC has, for the most part, became a bit of a red herring in the conversation on our successes and failures. I understand why people say they're not sure how much benefit we've gotten from it but you only really need to visit the place to see how much better a club we are for it in comparison to others that just simply don't have anywhere near it.

Of course none of that really matters to some people if we're not winning games of football and the argument can be made that we're producing soft as ***** players, but I can only imagine how much better things like our academy and health and fitness etc have all been for having a permanent place it all happens in.

At the end of the day for me the it's all about how the coaching staff utilise the tools they have to get the best out of their players and HTC is undoubtedly a huge tool in the arsenal for those who come in through the door.

It's only going to get better too. When the plans come to fruition we will have some of the finest facilities in Scotland. That still doesn't, of course, guarantee success on the field - if it did every club would just plough money into infrastructure.