Are We Unrealistic In Our Expectations?

[Dashing Bob S]

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

[Northernhibee]

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

[jakedance]

Do we really demand so called entertaining football at the expense of winning? I can’t remember too many games I’ve enjoyed where we’ve lost. Give me a Hibs team that consistently punch their weight with a backbone of hard as nails winners. Instal a winning mentality and build the entertainment from there.

[Paul1642]

We might be fans first and foremost but when you break it down we are paying customers in the entertainment business, therefore rightfully expect to be entertained.

Obviously getting good result is a huge part of our expectations but paying £25 to watch a boring game of football and scrape a 1-0 win is not what I want on a consistent basis. Times like now I’ll settle for that because we need the points on the board but I never want that to end become our philosophy.

There’s a reason so many Hibs fans have very fond memories of the Mowbray and Lennon tenures and it’s the football that’s responsible for this, not the results.

[Steven79]

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.If the board had backed him that summer we would be in a far better position right now.

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[Northernhibee]

If the board had backed him that summer we would be in a far better position right now.

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Yep. Even if we followed the same transfer strategy we’d have a much better squad and saved a hell of a lot of money.

It’s ****ing shameful how badly we’ve declined in such a short space of time.

[Pagan Hibernia]

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

A lot of people never quite forgave him for that wretched Cup Final performance. Harsh probably.

[Steven79]

A lot of people never quite forgave him for that wretched Cup Final performance. Harsh probably.And as usual the players managed to avoid any blame.

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[Northernhibee]

A lot of people never quite forgave him for that wretched Cup Final performance. Harsh probably.

A lot of teams looked wretched against that St Johnstone squad, Rangers included. Not just harsh, arrogant to think we had a god given right to skelp them.

[lyonhibs]

The romanticised "Hibs way" is an ethereal crock of ***** in reality.

Get a team that wins more often than it loses first of all, sustain it by any means necessary and then you can start concerning yourself about the "style" element.

[easty]

We've not had an entertaining style of football for ages, and over my lifetime it's been rare.

Get a winning team, then look to adapt that team to play a better level of football. It has to be in that order for me.

[Alex Trager]

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

I think there is an element of our support that didn’t enjoy the JR tenure football.

I enjoyed the results but found it incredibly hard to watch. We were a lot less vulnerable than we are now, but we remained vulnerable and if we had scored only one goal, I was often really concerned that we would not win the game.

Maybe that doesn’t show in the results mind you, but it was my interpretation.

When we beat Aberdeen 3-0 in the game before Covid struck later that season, JR commented it was ‘quite Hibsy’ the way we won the game. So I suppose even he recognised that there is a style and way of winning game associated with Hibs.

Another factor was that the atmosphere in the ground was pretty much deid.

There could be a few factors in that:
It being the first season after Covid so people staying away.
The restrictions in place because of Covid at the start of the season.
The run we were on by the time a full ground was allowed.

So perhaps there is a genuine desire to be entertained amongst hibbys, I suppose my JR point has so many possibilities as to why it was like that when we got back in the ground, that could be stacked against a point of it being the football that kept people away and made the atmos crap.

I think back to Lennon’s tenure, in particular the 5-5 when we sold half the away stand and every seat was taken in the house, even after being beat by Hearts days before, and think of the atmospheres we experienced then.

They were quality.

I don’t know why that was, I just know that it was. It could have been the shouty manager (doubt it). It could have been the football. It could have been the jeopardy. It could have been that we were winning most weeks.

Who knows?

[Centre Hawf]

If the board had backed him that summer we would be in a far better position right now.

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I was probably quite guilty of the mindset that "if he left tomorrow I wouldn't be upset" with Jack Ross, mostly due to the style of football we played. But regardless of what my opinions were of him after the cup final and two semi final losses in 2020/21, the one guaranteed part of his tenure was that he was failed by the club in that summer window to build on what he had done and at the very least maintain it.

We were a ball hair from having probably our best ever season since the Tornadoes/Famous Five era and the club actively went backwards in that transfer window. Whatever reason that was for is something only those in charge at that point can ever say but I think that windows failings has put us to where we are now to this day. If we backed Jack Ross with even a handful of players he asked for/needed I don't think we're sitting here having debates on sacking a 4th manager in 2.5 years.

[Smartie]

A lot of people never quite forgave him for that wretched Cup Final performance. Harsh probably.

I thought he was probably affected by the fact that his third placed finish came in empty grounds.

There were plenty of good performances and wins away from home in particular that would have really endeared him to the hardcore who go home and away. It was easy to be a bit "meh" about narrow wins at grounds like Fir Park from the comfort of our sofas when in fact they were excellent results and performances where more lauded teams of ours haven't always fared as well.

Those results didn't put the credit in the bank for him that they really should have.

I actually think it's a bit of a myth that we demand good football. If we're winning, we're happy, more so if we're playing well but it's the winning that counts. I think the vast majority of our fanbase are pragmatic enough to understand that, allowing for the fact that we have a lunatic fringe on any number of subjects. When a team who don't play good stuff start losing though, it leaves the more dour managers with nowhere to go.

[worcesterhibby]

people have short memories, if they don't remember the vast number of posts decrying our "eye-bleeding" football, under Jack Ross, with a very vocal group on here constantly saying that we only came third because "every other team is sh&t". (that's not to say that the loudest on here and on Facebook and Twitter are the majority, but they definitely influence people thinking)

To be fair, I'm a 700mile round trip from Easter Road, so I never get to sit their and watch matches week in week out. I don't blame people for wanting to watch exciting attacking football, but I just think it's important to remember, what happened under Jack Ross, when we won ugly.

Would McInnes have had us more organised, tighter in defence and in the top half of the table? - Almost certainly
Would Hibs fans have accepted his grind it our style of football for long ? - that's a different question

Personally I think the Black Knights group will have a strong say in suggesting how we go forward manager wise. Certainly they will have input, when we next search for one. For me that has to be a good thing. I actually think Ben Kensall is very good at a lot of the stuff he does and for Ron's sake I'm more than happy to back the Ian and the rest of the Gordon family...BUT they certainly could do with some help when it comes to picking managers ! The last three appointments have not been good. Let's applaud the commercial work that Ben and Ian have been involved with and hope that Bill Foley's team can find us a better gaffer next time we are looking.

[allezsauzee]

I couldn't watch a team that played the way Hearts normally play regardless of the level of success. I'd enjoy the fact that Hibs were winning but I wouldn't there to watch it. I don't expect the team to be wildly successful. I just want to watch decent football, give the old firm the odd beating, beat Hearts more than they beat us and finish top 6 with the occasional cup win. I don't think that is too much to ask.

[Greenio]

So many folk talking like NM has been sacked.

Patience people 😁

Plenty time to turn this good ship around. Starting with a win on Sat!

Clap clap!

[Pagan Hibernia]

A lot of teams looked wretched against that St Johnstone squad, Rangers included. Not just harsh, arrogant to think we had a god given right to skelp them.

I didn't expect to skelp them, our recent results against them before that had been awful. I did expect better than what we served up that day though. It was atrocious. Ironically we played far better against St J in the LC semi when we got beat 3-0.

I do agree though that he shouldn't have been judged on those results. 3rd place should have got him plenty of credit in the bank, although as others have said the fact we were locked out of ER, through no fault of JRs, did him no favours. Football by definition that season was sterile and a hard watch and it had nothing to do with Jack Ross

[JeMeSouviens]

When McInnes had Jonny Hayes and Niall McGinn, were Aberdeen really boring? I think if you give him good players he'll play good football. Give him crap players he's pragmatic enough to play to their limitations and try to get a result. ****ing with the **** you've got seems like a good idea to me?

[allezsauzee]

When McInnes had Jonny Hayes and Niall McGinn, were Aberdeen really boring? I think if you give him good players he'll play good football. Give him crap players he's pragmatic enough to play to their limitations and try to get a result. ****ing with the **** you've got seems like a good idea to me?

I actually think at that time, McInnes had a good balance of style and steel. I'm think there is an assumption that he'd play boring football simply because he organises a team first and foremost before trying anything more ambitious.

[May21/05/16]

Hibs could appoint pep or klopp and if they had a bad 6 months this place would want them out

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[Stubbsy90+2]

When McInnes had Jonny Hayes and Niall McGinn, were Aberdeen really boring? I think if you give him good players he'll play good football. Give him crap players he's pragmatic enough to play to their limitations and try to get a result. ****ing with the **** you've got seems like a good idea to me?

They weren’t.

I can’t be bothered going back and finding it, but there was a season when Aberdeen scored something like 70 odd goals under him, finished 2nd and won numerous games scoring 4, 5, 6 goals etc.

[Since452]

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

Jack Ross gave me one of my best nights watching Hibs in recent years. 3-1 against the Huns at Hampden. Fantastic. The players and fans felt really together that night. We seem a million miles from that now.

[blackpoolhibs]

I couldn't watch a team that played the way Hearts normally play regardless of the level of success. I'd enjoy the fact that Hibs were winning but I wouldn't there to watch it. I don't expect the team to be wildly successful. I just want to watch decent football, give the old firm the odd beating, beat Hearts more than they beat us and finish top 6 with the occasional cup win. I don't think that is too much to ask.

So you wouldnt mind Livi and St Mirren beating us, along with the likes of St Johnstone and Kilmarnock as long as the highlighted scenario was achieved?

We hardly win any games now, and look at this board and the moaning that's going on, but you would be happy if we finished top 6. :rolleyes:

[Northernhibee]

Jack Ross gave me one of my best nights watching Hibs in recent years. 3-1 against the Huns at Hampden. Fantastic. The players and fans felt really together that night. We seem a million miles from that now.

Some people use his time at Dundee United to dismiss him as a bad manager but it’s proof that a good manager at a basket case badly run club can appear out of their depth.

Lessons to be learned there.

[WhileTheChief..]

The fans had nothing to do with Jack Ross getting sacked and the chat about us demanding silky football is made up pish.

It was the club that screwed up, not us.

[Northernhibee]

The fans had nothing to do with Jack Ross getting sacked and the chat about us demanding silky football is made up pish.

It was the club that screwed up, not us.

I remember the GTF chants in his last game and the sacking happening shortly after, as in very shortly.

Panic set in and some might say it’s not lifted since.

[007]

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

That bit is definitely unrealistic so the answer to your question is yes. 😀

He would need time, as would any manager. He had Kilmarnock very close to relegation last season with 6 games to and only avoided the playoff spot on the last day. Kilmarnock stuck by him and are now seeing the benefits. We don't give managers much time.

Below was after he'd been in the job 15 or 16 months and had had 3 transfer windows.
https://i.ibb.co/Wf4NRXj/Screenshot-20240127-171623-Gallery.jpg (https://ibb.co/TtxDNGd)

[WhileTheChief..]

Hibs could appoint pep or klopp and if they had a bad 6 months this place would want them out

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That would depend on results. If they only get us 1 win in 15 games or similar then aye, I’d want them binned too.

What’s so wrong about wanting a manager that helps us win games? It used to be the norm.

[WhileTheChief..]

I remember the GTF chants in his last game and the sacking happening shortly after, as in very shortly.

Panic set in and some might say it’s not lifted since.

That was the game away to Livvi I think?

Maybe less than 100 or so folk calling for JR to go and the board shat itself. You’re spot on, we’re still suffering from it and will be for a while yet I imagine.

[JimBHibees]

I remember the GTF chants in his last game and the sacking happening shortly after, as in very shortly.

Panic set in and some might say it’s not lifted since.

Was at Livi the chanting was basically 20 teenagers though it is fair to say the rest of the support didn’t exactly argue against the chants. Was a very poor decision to be honest. It is fair to say he went through a poor run and some of the performances near the end were very poor with little or no tempo.

[Since452]

Just over 2 years since Ross was sacked? Seems like about 10!

[rodhibs55]

The romanticised "Hibs way" is an ethereal crock of ***** in reality.

Get a team that wins more often than it loses first of all, sustain it by any means necessary and then you can start concerning yourself about the "style" element.
Hibs are a roller coaster and always have been fir me and I'm 69. Too young to remember the famous 5 but Been through Turnballs tornadoes, Tony Moybery's young team, Stubb's brilliant team, we were great at times with Lenny, I'm sure there will be good times again.
No one can forget 2016. Keep the faith and keep supporting.
GGTTH

[worcesterhibby]

That bit is definitely unrealistic so the answer to your question is yes. 😀

He would need time, as would any manager. He had Kilmarnock very close to relegation last season with 6 games to and only avoided the playoff spot on the last day. Kilmarnock stuck by him and are now seeing the benefits. We don't give managers much time.

Below was after he'd been in the job 15 or 16 months and had had 3 transfer windows.
https://i.ibb.co/Wf4NRXj/Screenshot-20240127-171623-Gallery.jpg (https://ibb.co/TtxDNGd)

Great post...so easy to forget this stuff. You are dead right, we would never accept that position after over a year in post, yet they are reaping the rewards now.

[Sparrows tongue]

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

Your theory is a good one, Bob. :aok:

However, I for one would take a wee run of 1-0 wins for the remainder of this season. Yes, it's fantastic to play football with freedom and style, although I feel this belief is now a bit dated.

It's a result led business and we need these results - starting with Dundee!

As an aside, I think that McInnes is just what we need right now.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Great post...so easy to forget this stuff. You are dead right, we would never accept that position after over a year in post, yet they are reaping the rewards now.

We’re Hibs. We’re not Kilmarnock. Arguing that we wouldn’t accept what they would accept is daft, just as it would be daft for us to point to the fact that Celtic fans are struggling to accept they might finish 2nd despite the fact we would more than accept that.

[easty]

Hibs could appoint pep or klopp and if they had a bad 6 months this place would want them out

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If they were doing *****? That'd be fair.

If we had Messi and he was playing crap, I'd want him dropped tae.

[Torto7]

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?


Hibs do shoot themselves in the foot sometimes trying to play expansive football. The spacing in Monty's 4-4-2 for example would challenge even top players. It's a tricky question, go for the solid choice(McInnes) and play sensible football I wouldn't call him duller than say Jack Ross or strive to find something more unique. Like you say there is a wee voice in my head that says aim for the second option. Maybe that's just us as a fanbase?

[Diclonius]

Speak for yourselves, I would take eye-bleeding football if we finished 3rd most seasons, got to Hampden regularly and beat Hearts more often than not.

This "Hibs class" thing is a load of bollocks.

[Sparrows tongue]

Your theory is a good one, Bob. :aok:

However, I for one would take a wee run of 1-0 wins for the remainder of this season. Yes, it's fantastic to play football with freedom and style, although I feel this belief is now a bit dated.

It's a result led business and we need these results - starting with Dundee!

As an aside, I think that McInnes is just what we need right now.


Speak for yourselves, I would take eye-bleeding football if we finished 3rd most seasons, got to Hampden regularly and beat Hearts more often than not.

This "Hibs class" thing is a load of bollocks.

That is a much more direct way of saying what I attempted to voice. :aok:

[southern hibby]

I think the problem we have are certain fans are happy clappers at all different aspects of hibs.

For example.
Some want entertainment.
Some want attacking football.
Some want wins at any cost.
Some want us just to turn up every once in a while.
Some want to just turn up and moan at anything going wrong especially at one another. Moaning someone’s a happy clapper or happy to except mediocre performances.
We have fans laughing at Rangers flow of statements yet we have fans desperate to stand up to the SFA reference VAR, but how many have actually phoned or emailed Hibs to say how they feel.
But what we don’t seem to have is a collective agreement on anything ( except possibly Hibs class ).

If we take our neighbours across the city they ( subconsciously ) are defined by us. Their whole mindset to every last one of them is to beat Hibs at all costs and anything else is a bonus. I’d even go as far to say that some off them are probably happy when winning a cup because it means Hibs haven’t won it more so than they have.

I believe and I may be wrong but until we collectively can get together and start telling Hibs what we need to prioritise we’ll just cruise along because we aren’t rocking the boat.

One thing I do know we deserve better than we’ve been getting this season as it’s been absolutely horse manure.

GGTTH

[hibeerealist]

If the board had backed him that summer we would be in a far better position right now.

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Really? Jack went to Dundee Utd and we saw what happened there.

Now in a comfy job with a lot less stress than football management, I think JR has found his ideal!!

Good luck to him but Hibs are well rid.

[Hibiza]

Jack Ross ,towards the end was dire .deserved to go .

[007]

We’re Hibs. We’re not Kilmarnock. Arguing that we wouldn’t accept what they would accept is daft, just as it would be daft for us to point to the fact that Celtic fans are struggling to accept they might finish 2nd despite the fact we would more than accept that.

I agree. I would say Kilmarnock battling to avoid relegation is the equivalent to us battling to make the top 6. McInnes was given the chance to avoid relegation so if we are comparing with how well McInnes is doing at Kilmarnock then Montgomery should be given the chance to make the top 6.

[BILLYHIBS]

Jack Ross ,towards the end was dire .deserved to go .

This

[ancient hibee]

Speak for yourselves, I would take eye-bleeding football if we finished 3rd most seasons, got to Hampden regularly and beat Hearts more often than not.

This "Hibs class" thing is a load of bollocks.


Quite right. For example we lose games not because we get caught out playing expansive attacking football but because we have defenders who don't know how to put the ball into Row ZZ.

[DIXIHIBS]

Other than hibs.net I very rarely hear anyone talking about 'hibs way' etc....its a complete myth imho. Of course we want Hibs to play exciting attacking football....fans of every club want that, but winning is what matters...end of. Does anyone believe if we were 3rd in league and regularly beating hertz that the style of football really matters? Hibs managers have been sacked in the past because they lose games, not because of the football on show.

[Sparrows tongue]

Quite right. For example we lose games not because we get caught out playing expansive attacking football but because we have defenders who don't know how to put the ball into Row ZZ.

That's quite funny, but it's actually true!

[Itsnoteasy]

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

Who cares what Hertz fans want. Its in their dna to pump us/Hibs & that happens more often than not. Let's just worry about Hibs.

[Bakerman]

Jack Ross ,towards the end was dire .deserved to go .

I agree. We were playing like Bertie Auld's team by the end of Jack Ross's tenure. It had become dull, and boring, unfortunately, as he had us playing very well a lot of the time at the peak of his tenure.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Read a comments section on an egg-chasing article that made me think…

the comment was on the lines of:

“we should start from the position of what happens in the perfect game.”

Perhaps this is the modern curse of over analysis. No one can make mistakes, defenders must to better, forwards must have an end product/score/track back. It’s all without context of the game plan and how the opponents setup.

if we expect perfection we are being unrealistic

[Donegal Hibby]

So many folk talking like NM has been sacked.

Patience people 😁

Plenty time to turn this good ship around. Starting with a win on Sat!

Clap clap!

:aok:

[RMQ1967]

Other than hibs.net I very rarely hear anyone talking about 'hibs way' etc....its a complete myth imho. Of course we want Hibs to play exciting attacking football....fans of every club want that, but winning is what matters...end of. Does anyone believe if we were 3rd in league and regularly beating hertz that the style of football really matters? Hibs managers have been sacked in the past because they lose games, not because of the football on show.

Agree with some of this but the style of football does matter to an extent.

What I would say, is that aside from our declining expectations for this season, we'll shortly find out if the new shareholders are content with the erratic performances and struggles to scrape into the top 6.

Having recently brought in the quality of players we could only dream of at the beginning of the season I think their expectations will be far higher than what we're currently enduring.

[joe breezy]

Winning is alll that matters but winning in Europe too

My expectations are top 3 every season and staying in Europe till each winter

So not high at all

[IberianHibernian]

Given present league position , results are probably more important than performances in the next few weeks and if we scrape a win in the cup QF despite playing defensively most of us will still be happy . Next season if we play boring football but still finish 3rd , many fans will be happy but just for one year . Several years of boring , negative play even with regular European qualification would soon see crowds drop .

[joe breezy]

Name a boring successful team

[Musselbound]

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

Third place is never guaranteed (seems to be a soundbite Foley came up with) and there's no inevitability McInnes would get it right at Hibs.

But yes playing a great style of football and achieving success is a hard expectation to live up to at a club like Hibs.

[VoltaireHibs]

I think there is an element of our support that didn’t enjoy the JR tenure football.

I enjoyed the results but found it incredibly hard to watch. We were a lot less vulnerable than we are now, but we remained vulnerable and if we had scored only one goal, I was often really concerned that we would not win the game.

Maybe that doesn’t show in the results mind you, but it was my interpretation.

When we beat Aberdeen 3-0 in the game before Covid struck later that season, JR commented it was ‘quite Hibsy’ the way we won the game. So I suppose even he recognised that there is a style and way of winning game associated with Hibs.

Another factor was that the atmosphere in the ground was pretty much deid.

There could be a few factors in that:
It being the first season after Covid so people staying away.
The restrictions in place because of Covid at the start of the season.
The run we were on by the time a full ground was allowed.

So perhaps there is a genuine desire to be entertained amongst hibbys, I suppose my JR point has so many possibilities as to why it was like that when we got back in the ground, that could be stacked against a point of it being the football that kept people away and made the atmos crap.

I think back to Lennon’s tenure, in particular the 5-5 when we sold half the away stand and every seat was taken in the house, even after being beat by Hearts days before, and think of the atmospheres we experienced then.

They were quality.

I don’t know why that was, I just know that it was. It could have been the shouty manager (doubt it). It could have been the football. It could have been the jeopardy. It could have been that we were winning most weeks.

Who knows?

Because whatever you think of the merits of Lennon the manager, there is no doubt he's box-office. He puts buns on seats one way or another.

[VoltaireHibs]

Name a boring successful team

George Graham's Arsenal. 😁 Showing my age.

Mind you, they were the best defensive unit I've seen in my lifetime. Wenger won a watch when he inherited that disciplined unit. When it came time to replace them he couldn't, always felt that was his, Wengers, problem at Arsenal.

[VoltaireHibs]

Great post...so easy to forget this stuff. You are dead right, we would never accept that position after over a year in post, yet they are reaping the rewards now.

I think you also have to factor in relevant budgets/expectations. No danger would McInnes have us 3rd bottom with our budget.

[joe breezy]

George Graham's Arsenal. �� Showing my age.

Mind you, they were the best defensive unit I've seen in my lifetime. Wenger won a watch when he inherited that disciplined unit. When it came time to replace them he couldn't, always felt that was his, Wengers, problem at Arsenal.

Having a great defence is still good football. Some of the Italian teams could be accused of being boring with the 1-0 tactic that some play, known as catenaccio (Italian for door bolt).

Although I'd love to see Hibs win in an exciting style I'd rather see us win 1-0 than get beat 3-2.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think you also have to factor in relevant budgets/expectations. No danger would McInnes have us 3rd bottom with our budget.

Where did Aberdeen finish in McInnes last season there? .

[Steve20]

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

Wasn't just "a game against St Johnstone". It was twice at Hampden, which is awful. Pumped 3-0 in a semi final and losing 1-0 in a final. There really was no excuses for not winning one of those cups. Yes, he got to the semi and the final, but look at the run in both cups that season. Those cups opened up for us with good draws until Hampden.

This 'getting to Hampden'. But if you keep losing, it means nothing. There's nothing enjoyable about losing in a final or a semi final. Just getting to Hampden isn't special. Winning at Hampden is.

Couldn't win many big games and a lot of time the Football was dire. And yes, if we're winning then I don't mind, but the winning was getting rare near the end for Jack Ross and he had to go.

[BILLYHIBS]

Wasn't just "a game against St Johnstone". It was twice at Hampden, which is awful. Pumped 3-0 in a semi final and losing 1-0 in a final. There really was no excuses for not winning one of those cups. Yes, he got to the semi and the final, but look at the run in both cups that season. Those cups opened up for us with good draws until Hampden.

This 'getting to Hampden'. But if you keep losing, it means nothing. There's nothing enjoyable about losing in a final or a semi final. Just getting to Hampden isn't special. Winning at Hampden is.

Couldn't win many big games and a lot of time the Football was dire. And yes, if we're winning then I don't mind, but the winning was getting rare near the end for Jack Ross and he had to go.

They also beat us 1-0 twice home and away in the run up to the final in the League each time playing the same way

Any Manager worth his salt in the run up to a national Cup Final should be thinking what can we do different to break them down but no nothing

In his defence he did give us a fantastic day out at Hampden when we defeated The Rangers 3-1 that came during a ten game run where funnily enough the only team we managed to defeat in the League was St Johnstone away 2-1

I will never forget his eye bleeding football that Scottish Cup Final a terrible team performance against the worst Hearts team in living memory at Easter Road and yes he perhaps should have led us out in the League Cup Final versus Celtic

[JimBHibees]

They also beat us 1-0 twice home and away in the run up to the final in the League each time playing the same way

Any Manager worth his salt in the run up to a national Cup Final should be thinking what can we do different to break them down but no nothing

In his defence he did give us a fantastic day out at Hampden when we defeated The Rangers 3-1 that came during a ten game run where funnily enough the only team we managed to defeat in the League was St Johnstone away 2-1

I will never forget his eye bleeding football that Scottish Cup Final a terrible team performance against the worst Hearts team in living memory at Easter Road and yes he perhaps should have led us out in the League Cup Final versus Celtic

The loss to Hearts st hampden when they were in championship was a sore one also though imo we were denied a certain penalty in injury time and of course then missed a pen in et.

[Stuart93]

In the mix for 3rd, getting to Hampden and perhaps a cup every now and then isn’t unrealistic at all

And I’ve not seen any that are any more unrealistic

[BILLYHIBS]

The loss to Hearts st hampden when they were in championship was a sore one also though imo we were denied a certain penalty in injury time and of course then missed a pen in et.

Sorry had erased that one from my memory banks

As you say a sore one

[Stuart93]

What I will say though is the Jack Ross debate is utterly boring now.

[worcesterhibby]

We’re Hibs. We’re not Kilmarnock. Arguing that we wouldn’t accept what they would accept is daft, just as it would be daft for us to point to the fact that Celtic fans are struggling to accept they might finish 2nd despite the fact we would more than accept that.

Yes but the point is that even Derek McInnes who has an alround excellent record in Scottish football, took the best part of a season and a half and four ot five windows, to get Kilmarnock firing on all cylinders. "good" for Kilmarnock is 4th or 5th place and that's where he has now got them. But it wasn't instant, it required the Kilmarnock board to keep faith through some difficult times and not get rid half way through the process.

I think it is a relevant thing to remember. We haven't given any of our recent managers that much time.

[wookie70]

Yes but the point is that even Derek McInnes who has an alround excellent record in Scottish football, took the best part of a season and a half and four ot five windows, to get Kilmarnock firing on all cylinders. "good" for Kilmarnock is 4th or 5th place and that's where he has now got them. But it wasn't instant, it required the Kilmarnock board to keep faith through some difficult times and not get rid half way through the process.

I think it is a relevant thing to remember. We haven't given any of our recent managers that much time. I think that is a fair point but it is clear McInnes is an excellent manager at this level. Maloney had no experience, LJ had a decent amount of time and Monty is pretty much a Rookie. Betting on someone with course and distance is different to hoping someone gets better over time when there are no signs of that at the moment. I'm not keen on changing managers after a poor run of form but the board are.

[JimBHibees]

Yes but the point is that even Derek McInnes who has an alround excellent record in Scottish football, took the best part of a season and a half and four ot five windows, to get Kilmarnock firing on all cylinders. "good" for Kilmarnock is 4th or 5th place and that's where he has now got them. But it wasn't instant, it required the Kilmarnock board to keep faith through some difficult times and not get rid half way through the process.

I think it is a relevant thing to remember. We haven't given any of our recent managers that much time.

I think looking across the city is also relevant on this point. Sometimes you need to be patient and suffer a bit before things get better.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Yes but the point is that even Derek McInnes who has an alround excellent record in Scottish football, took the best part of a season and a half and four ot five windows, to get Kilmarnock firing on all cylinders. "good" for Kilmarnock is 4th or 5th place and that's where he has now got them. But it wasn't instant, it required the Kilmarnock board to keep faith through some difficult times and not get rid half way through the process.

I think it is a relevant thing to remember. We haven't given any of our recent managers that much time.

Good for Kilmarnock is not 4th or 5th place. Their average position in the Scottish Premiership is 8th. 4th or 5th is exceptional. They’ve also given time to a manager that earned time. Something which a manager absolutely needs to do.

[Brizo]

In nearly 60 years of watching Hibs the periods of watching Hibs play expansive, entertaining football have been limited to maybe ten of those years :greengrin. Tornadoes, couple of Miller seasons, McLeish, Mowbray , Stubbs, and briefer periods during Hughes and Lennon's tenures. The other nearly 50 years the fares been on a sliding scale from bang average , to mediocre to eye bleeding.

I think it's great that some of us have what others might call unrealistic standards whether it's league placings or the standard of football that we play or that we demand a combination of both. While it might be unrealistic it's a core part of our supports DNA and I wouldn't want it to change to one that accepts mediocrity and agricultural hoofball.