Furious Dundee lodge complaint to SFA over handling of Michael Mellon head injury

[Donegal Hibby]

The referee in the Dundee v St Johnstone game David Munro carried on with the game after a serious head injury , surely the Ref should have stopped play to allow treatment to the player ? .

It just goes to highlight how incompetent some of the referees are in our game . Hopefully Dundee lodging a complaint will open up someone's eyes in the SFA to the standard of refereeing in Scotland .

Thankfully the player seems to be ok and was discharged on Sunday evening.

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/furious-dundee-write-sfa-expressing-28616212

https://dundeefc.co.uk/news/update-on-michael-mellon/

[Northernhibee]

The worst thing is that my first thought is “that’ll be Dundee not getting a single refereeing decision go their way for the foreseeable then”.

Scottish refs are terrible at their jobs and not to be criticised.

[CentreLine]

Maybe the clubs have something to answer for here too. It is pretty clear that players go down all the time in an effort to slow play, waste time and disrupt attacking situations for the opposition. Since the awareness of the dangers of head injury have been highlighted there has been a perceptible increase in the number of players falling to the ground clutching their heads and it is inconceivable to me that this is not being coached by clubs. I include Hibs in this, remembering particularly how Ryan Porteous woukd frequently collapse.

I can understand this being a useful, perhaps even legitimate, tactic but clubs have to understand that referees see it too. It’s the old story of the boy who cried wolf too often …

[matty_f]

Maybe the clubs have something to answer for here too. It is pretty clear that players go down all the time in an effort to slow play, waste time and disrupt attacking situations for the opposition. Since the awareness of the dangers of head injury have been highlighted there has been a perceptible increase in the number of players falling to the ground clutching their heads and it is inconceivable to me that this is not being coached by clubs. I include Hibs in this, remembering particularly how Ryan Porteous woukd frequently collapse.

I can understand this being a useful, perhaps even legitimate, tactic but clubs have to understand that referees see it too. It’s the old story of the boy who cried wolf too often …

Was just going to say that. Usually I'm loathe to criticise a referee for stopping the play for a head knock because they shouldn't be taking any chances with it - they're not doctors so can't be expected to make a call on whether a player is genuinely hurt or not.

The frustration comes from teams using it to take the heat off when they're under pressure, or to kill time, and it means when there is a serious one there's a risk it's not treated as such.

Did Dundee score the penalty they got for it? Assuming the ref awarded one or VAR brought the referees attention to it?

[CentreLine]

Further to the above, I see that a gumshield has been developed and is in use in rugby. It detects when there has been a potentially dangerous change of movement in the head. The referee must stop play immediately and the player is obliged to leave the field for mandatory checks. If the player is fine then he can return to the field.

Of course, in rugby, a temporary substitute is allowed own but surely this could be easily applied in football. Doesn’t have to be a gimshield but a detector in the mouth or in the head would do the job.

Players feigning injury is a curse in our game and a dangerous one if a genuine incident is missed because of it.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Was just going to say that. Usually I'm loathe to criticise a referee for stopping the play for a head knock because they shouldn't be taking any chances with it - they're not doctors so can't be expected to make a call on whether a player is genuinely hurt or not.

The frustration comes from teams using it to take the heat off when they're under pressure, or to kill time, and it means when there is a serious one there's a risk it's not treated as such.

Did Dundee score the penalty they got for it? Assuming the ref awarded one or VAR brought the referees attention to it?

I heard it was a drop ball inside the box so was curious myself to see if there were any similarities to the Inc with Celtic.

Assumed not as no-one mentioned it on here.

[Kato]

I heard it was a drop ball inside the box so was curious myself to see if there were any similarities to the Inc with Celtic.

Assumed not as no-one mentioned it on here.Hard to find any footage.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

Was just going to say that. Usually I'm loathe to criticise a referee for stopping the play for a head knock because they shouldn't be taking any chances with it - they're not doctors so can't be expected to make a call on whether a player is genuinely hurt or not.

The frustration comes from teams using it to take the heat off when they're under pressure, or to kill time, and it means when there is a serious one there's a risk it's not treated as such.

Did Dundee score the penalty they got for it? Assuming the ref awarded one or VAR brought the referees attention to it?

Just to be clear the head injury referred to did not lead to a penalty. Mellon got injured with a head on head collision with a Saints defender on the half way line near the dug outs so it would have been clear it was a significant head knock. The ref played on the ball broke to another Dundee player. Did look a bad collision at the time. Assume another incident in penalty box but didn't see it.

[matty_f]

Just to be clear the head injury referred to did not lead to a penalty. Mellon got injured with a head on head collision with a Saints defender on the half way line near the dug outs so it would have been clear it was a significant head knock. The ref played on the ball broke to another Dundee player. Did look a bad collision at the time. Assume another incident in penalty box but didn't see it.
No free kick given for it?

[JimBHibees]

No free kick given for it?

Yes Dundee got a free kick.

[Kato]

Yes Dundee got a free kick.I can understand the confusion as on the "other matches" thread someone posted that it been a drop ball.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Diclonius]

A booking for feigning a head injury to deliberately stop a game (or a retrospective ban if concerns re false negatives) might be an idea.

[Hibeesdaft16]

The referee should be severely reprimanded for that. That is completely not doing his job correctly and borderline negligence.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Killie mastered it vs us a few weeks ago. Player even managed to re-enter the pitch in the defensive third, exactly where he needed to be for the next phase, despite everyone knowing what was happening the ref allowed it

As above, there's clearly examples of genuine head injuries, possibly a (minimum) 60 seconds of the park for assessment might deter players feigning injury?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Was just going to say that. Usually I'm loathe to criticise a referee for stopping the play for a head knock because they shouldn't be taking any chances with it - they're not doctors so can't be expected to make a call on whether a player is genuinely hurt or not.

The frustration comes from teams using it to take the heat off when they're under pressure, or to kill time, and it means when there is a serious one there's a risk it's not treated as such.

Did Dundee score the penalty they got for it? Assuming the ref awarded one or VAR brought the referees attention to it?

Like Kyogo staying down until VaR check is mentioned… absolutely transparent and we see it all the time

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Maybe the clubs have something to answer for here too. It is pretty clear that players go down all the time in an effort to slow play, waste time and disrupt attacking situations for the opposition. Since the awareness of the dangers of head injury have been highlighted there has been a perceptible increase in the number of players falling to the ground clutching their heads and it is inconceivable to me that this is not being coached by clubs. I include Hibs in this, remembering particularly how Ryan Porteous woukd frequently collapse.

I can understand this being a useful, perhaps even legitimate, tactic but clubs have to understand that referees see it too. It’s the old story of the boy who cried wolf too often …

cultural thing and less likely to happen with the egg-chasers.
No wonder they call footie “Wendy-ball” at times.

[matty_f]

Yes Dundee got a free kick.

The OP said the ref carried on the game?

[Oscar T Grouch]

A booking for feigning a head injury to deliberately stop a game (or a retrospective ban if concerns re false negatives) might be an idea.

:agree: If we have VAR and it shows a playing going down holding his head and VAR shows no contact (They would need to look at how a player lands too in the review), then a card should be issued. Head injuries are very serious and to feign one is asking for them to be ignored (in this case) or the importance of them lessened.

[JohnM1875]

The OP said the ref carried on the game?

The ref did play on, he gave Dundee an advantage and they continued the attack. The physio didn't wait for play to stop and sprinted on to see the player. Which is why the physio is getting praised for it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Maybe the clubs have something to answer for here too. It is pretty clear that players go down all the time in an effort to slow play, waste time and disrupt attacking situations for the opposition. Since the awareness of the dangers of head injury have been highlighted there has been a perceptible increase in the number of players falling to the ground clutching their heads and it is inconceivable to me that this is not being coached by clubs. I include Hibs in this, remembering particularly how Ryan Porteous woukd frequently collapse.

I can understand this being a useful, perhaps even legitimate, tactic but clubs have to understand that referees see it too. It’s the old story of the boy who cried wolf too often …

cultural thing and less likely to happen with the egg-chasers.
No wonder they call footie “Wendy-ball” at times.

[HibeeCraig]

Killie mastered it vs us a few weeks ago. Player even managed to re-enter the pitch in the defensive third, exactly where he needed to be for the next phase, despite everyone knowing what was happening the ref allowed it

As above, there's clearly examples of genuine head injuries, possibly a (minimum) 60 seconds of the park for assessment might deter players feigning injury?

I would like to see a rule like this come into play. I would say the player has to spend at least 2 minutes off the park as a deterrent or punishment for feigning a head injury. Or if there has been a genuine head injury then it gives the player enough time to be checked over and get back on the pitch as soon as possible once they have the all clear from the doctor.

[Hibs4185]

For a head knock, why can’t they just let the physio/doctor
Come on whilst play continues?

Seems like a simple solution. It’s infuriating when promising play is stopped for what seems like a player feigning injury.

[greenlex]

For a head knock, why can’t they just let the physio/doctor
Come on whilst play continues?

Seems like a simple solution. It’s infuriating when promising play is stopped for what seems like a player feigning injury.
Should do it for any injury. You’d see a sharp downturn on the amount of times it’s required.

[Tommy75]

:agree: If we have VAR and it shows a playing going down holding his head and VAR shows no contact (They would need to look at how a player lands too in the review), then a card should be issued. Head injuries are very serious and to feign one is asking for them to be ignored (in this case) or the importance of them lessened.

Blue Card if you go down faking a head injury

[Donegal Hibby]

The OP said the ref carried on the game?

I didn't know a free kick had been given tbh which makes it even more strange that the referee thought it was foul though didn't have the players checked with what was clearly a bad head collision.Tried to find some footage of it and all I could get is this on the Dundee forum .
https://www.thedarkblues.co.uk/topic/34318-mellon/page/3/#comments

[Hibeesdaft16]

Blue Card if you go down faking a head injury

How would you tell if it's faking it or not? You can't judge someone saying they have a head injury and need to take every single one as legit.

[Oscar T Grouch]

How would you tell if it's faking it or not? You can't judge someone saying they have a head injury and need to take every single one as legit.

With VAR. we’ve all seen it at games where a player goes down after getting nudged in the ribs, holding his head. If VAR shows no contact to the head in the tackle or in the landing then the player goes off.

[HFC93]

A booking for feigning a head injury to deliberately stop a game (or a retrospective ban if concerns re false negatives) might be an idea.

Is there an easy way to prove that someone is/was feigning a head injury?

[Hibeesdaft16]

With VAR. we’ve all seen it at games where a player goes down after getting nudged in the ribs, holding his head. If VAR shows no contact to the head in the tackle or in the landing then the player goes off.


Then it would open a minefield that VAR has to check all injuries to make sure they are not wasting time also. Will be around 30 mins added on most games.

VAR is there to check if the referee has made a clear and obvious error when it comes to a goal, offside, penalty or red card.

I think all head injuries should be treated as serious, if it's in the box like last week and the players cheating then of course he will be penalised.

[Ron D Hibbie]

Just noticed we have this referee on saturday. David Munro.

[hibbydad]

Just noticed we have this referee on saturday. David Munro.
He is murder

[JimBHibees]

He is murder

Yep think Duk dive game also a game at Dundee where arguably they should have had two then sent off Rocky.

[CentreLine]

Is there an easy way to prove that someone is/was feigning a head injury?

That’s where the gumshield sensor they use in rugby would potentially help. It reports on head knocks that may lead to concussion. Not every head knock should lead to a stoppage surely and some that go unnoticed perhaps should. Players playacting are their own worst enemy. No activation of the technology no need to stop play.
See opro.com smart mouthguards.

[Pretty Boy]

As frustrating as it is when players feign injury the directives to the referee are clear around head injuries. The game should have been stopped immediately.

If the ref here thought the player was at it or was trying to prove a point then he has made a pretty major error that could have had serious consequences. He should have done the job as tasked and let other people come up with a solution to the wider problem of players abusing the rules around hea dinjuries.

[Green Reaper]

That’s where the gumshield sensor they use in rugby would potentially help. It reports on head knocks that may lead to concussion. Not every head knock should lead to a stoppage surely and some that go unnoticed perhaps should. Players playacting are their own worst enemy. No activation of the technology no need to stop play.
See opro.com smart mouthguards.
Could the gumshield possibly think a player heading the ball is a head knock, don't know exactly how it works but they obviously don't head the ball in rugby?

[Hibs4185]

Whether it is a genuine head injury or faking it, allowing the physio on straight away whilst the game continues makes no difference.

Player gets instant treatment no matter and the game continues.

It’s an absolute no brainer.

[wookie70]

Could the gumshield possibly think a player heading the ball is a head knock, don't know exactly how it works but they obviously don't head the ball in rugby?
That was my first thought too

[CentreLine]

Could the gumshield possibly think a player heading the ball is a head knock, don't know exactly how it works but they obviously don't head the ball in rugby?

True but the head still gets a lot of contact, more than in football so I’d be surprised if that was an issue. The article I saw about this suggested there has only been one incident where a player was obliged to leave the field for testing. That was Scotland’s hooker, George Turner v France last weekend. When you see the hits these players give and take I just don’t see heading the ball being an issue. In fact, if heading the ball activated this thing frequently, the question should be should we allow heading the ball

[gbhibby]

As frustrating as it is when players feign injury the directives to the referee are clear around head injuries. The game should have been stopped immediately.

If the ref here thought the player was at it or was trying to prove a point then he has made a pretty major error that could have had serious consequences. He should have done the job as tasked and let other people come up with a solution to the wider problem of players abusing the rules around hea dinjuries. Great Post

The refs are in a no win situation here, there are far too many players in the game going down at the slightest touch to the head area so players need to take responsibility here and not try to get fellow professionals booked or sent off when there has been minimal contact,there will be errors made but do not vilify the ref here.

[JimBHibees]

Great Post

The refs are in a no win situation here, there are far too many players in the game going down at the slightest touch to the head area so players need to take responsibility here and not try to get fellow professionals booked or sent off when there has been minimal contact,there will be errors made but do not vilify the ref here.

To be fair it was a clear bad head collision game should have been stopped immediately

[Donegal Hibby]

Great Post

The refs are in a no win situation here, there are far too many players in the game going down at the slightest touch to the head area so players need to take responsibility here and not try to get fellow professionals booked or sent off when there has been minimal contact,there will be errors made but do not vilify the ref here.

I understand what's been said about players going down at the slightest touch to the head area which doesn't make the refs job any easier though when it's as blatantly obvious as this one was with the ref apparently not to far away from it then i think the refs judgement on it should be questioned and Dundee have every right to know why their players welfare wasn't the main priority.

[CentreLine]

Attached are two articles on this gumshield technology. Looks like it is to now mandatory in both training and in matches for pro rugby players. Surely it should at least be a consideration for pro football. This should not, primarily be to reduce the cheating but as a safety measure. Also, it shouldn't prevent a referee stopping play in a clear head clash but would take the need to stop play away from the referee and to a doctor in most other cases. It does make me angry that coaches/players see a dangerous health issue as a way of slowing or stopping play as a tactic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-47448585

https://news.sky.com/story/smart-mouthguard-technology-to-be-adopted-in-rugby-to-help-flag-major-head-injuries-12981096

[VoltaireHibs]

Due to the potentially serious nature of a head knock I think this is a place where VAR could actually be useful. If a player is found by VAR to have simulated a head injury to gain advantage then the ref needs to be instructed to issue a straight red. That would nip it in the bud pretty quickly.

[McSwanky]

Due to the potentially serious nature of a head knock I think this is a place where VAR could actually be useful. If a player is found by VAR to have simulated a head injury to gain advantage then the ref needs to be instructed to issue a straight red. That would nip it in the bud pretty quickly.

We all know what would happen with that rule though, it would be applied in some cases but not others. There's still human judgement involved as to whether to review or not, which leaves it open to the same abuse that has rendered VAR almost useless in Scotland.

[Sparrows tongue]

The old adage - 'The boy who cried wolf' comes to mind here.

[Gettin' Auld]

How would you tell if it's faking it or not? You can't judge someone saying they have a head injury and need to take every single one as legit.
Head injuries are serious, so the player should be taken off the pitch and checked over in every instance. There won't be many faking it if that's the outcome.

[CentreLine]

Head injuries are serious, so the player should be taken off the pitch and checked over in every instance. There won't be many faking it if that's the outcome.

I’d be all for, although some players might then stay on when they have a genuine issue. It’s a tough one. First and foremost I feel coaches and players need to stop faking it but I do think the AI gumshield should at least be considered. Data from the system may well be very helpful in research in to the connection between head knocks and serious neurological conditions too. Has to be a win win