Making the Scottish Game Less Biased/Corrupt

[One Day Soon]

The game against Ugly Sister Victim the other night got me thinking about what could be done to make the game better in general and in Scotland and our top league in particular. So I thought I'd vomit some **** down in writing here:

1. Take match timing away from the referee. The clock should be visible in the stadium, it should count down from 45 minutes and it should be stopped for injuries and substitutions and then restarted. It should also be stopped and then restarted for throw ins, fouls and that goalkeeper catch and flop that they all love to do now. That way everyone knows how much time is really left to play and time wasting becomes pointless. No favours for the twins in terms of playing on until they score or stopping sharp if they're under threat.

2. All VAR discussions to have audio released post match, without exception.

3. All VAR to be a panel of three (if it isn't already) with one panel member to be external to Scotland. Modern technology would allow this very easily.

4. Managers to be given two or three VAR challenges per match as in tennis line calls. Use it correctly and its not gone. Get it wrong and you're one appeal down.

5. Handball fouls can only be given for deliberate handball. Still the referee's call but get rid of this lunacy where a player has no clue what is going on when a ball is smashed against him at pace.

6. Sin bin for time wasting, arguing with the referee and persistent fouling.

7. Abandon this ludicrous offside playing on until a material event happens rule. It's confusing for everyone and is effectively just losing match time cumulatively during a game to no purpose. Those seconds added up over a game and a season are never added on.

8. Make referee press conferences/explanations of decisions post game mandatory. The quicker that becomes routine the quicker we start removing bias from the game and the more routine they are the easier they are for referees to do.

9. Either ban pyros and enforce it or permit and regulate them.

10. Limit substitutions to three. Large numbers benefit better resourced teams and they already have all the financial advantage.

11. Invite refereeing applications from outside Scotland.

These are just on the pitch changes, I'd have a whole other agenda for levelling the playing field between the Ugly Sisters and everyone else.

Glad I got that off my chest.

[JeMeSouviens]

Throw in our lot with the English league. You'll doubtless not be surprised to hear I think we're better together. :wink: Cross-border is the only possible future if we want to have meaningful club European competition that's not a "super de duper league". An Edinburgh team with access to that tv pool could be every bit as big as Celtc or Sevco.

[hibsforeurope]

The game against Ugly Sister Victim the other night got me thinking about what could be done to make the game better in general and in Scotland and our top league in particular. So I thought I'd vomit some **** down in writing here:

1. Take match timing away from the referee. The clock should be visible in the stadium, it should count down from 45 minutes and it should be stopped for injuries and substitutions and then restarted. It should also be stopped and then restarted for throw ins, fouls and that goalkeeper catch and flop that they all love to do now. That way everyone knows how much time is really left to play and time wasting becomes pointless. No favours for the twins in terms of playing on until they score or stopping sharp if they're under threat.

2. All VAR discussions to have audio released post match, without exception.

3. All VAR to be a panel of three (if it isn't already) with one panel member to be external to Scotland. Modern technology would allow this very easily.

4. Managers to be given two or three VAR challenges per match as in tennis line calls. Use it correctly and its not gone. Get it wrong and you're one appeal down.

5. Handball fouls can only be given for deliberate handball. Still the referee's call but get rid of this lunacy where a player has no clue what is going on when a ball is smashed against him at pace.

6. Sin bin for time wasting, arguing with the referee and persistent fouling.

7. Abandon this ludicrous offside playing on until a material event happens rule. It's confusing for everyone and is effectively just losing match time cumulatively during a game to no purpose. Those seconds added up over a game and a season are never added on.

8. Make referee press conferences/explanations of decisions post game mandatory. The quicker that becomes routine the quicker we start removing bias from the game and the more routine they are the easier they are for referees to do.

9. Either ban pyros and enforce it or permit and regulate them.

10. Limit substitutions to three. Large numbers benefit better resourced teams and they already have all the financial advantage.

11. Invite refereeing applications from outside Scotland.

These are just on the pitch changes, I'd have a whole other agenda for levelling the playing field between the Ugly Sisters and everyone else.

Glad I got that off my chest.

Some good suggestions, will never happen as the refs want to cover up their inept/corruptness as much as possible.

I can't see why we cant sell ref mic radios like you can but at Murrayfield for Scotland games. this allows fans to heart all the conversations between officials live.

like Rugby/NFL VAR calls should be communicated by the ref over the PA system to the fans in the ground.

Grounds with screens should be able to show the VAR footage that is seen by fans watching at home on TV. Fens inside the ground have no idea what's going on or what the clips being suggested are.

Every decision or piece of play in the penalty area needs to be reviewed by VAR, for all teams, not just when the old firm are attacking. the amount of little nit picky decisions they get compared to us and the others is staggering.

As i say none of these will happen as it will show up our officials to be what they really are.

[DaveF]

The goalkeeper catch / flop thing is my biggest gripe. Yellow card, swiftly followed by another stops that.

Yes, I know that outfield players waste time in other ways but this flop thing is so blatant it needs eradicated instantly.

[Jones28]

9 and 10 are the only ones I’d disagree with. Otherwise bang on the money.

[Pete70]

Some good suggestions. Not sure if this is thread for my suggestion but I’d like to see retrospective yellow cards for players feigning injury to get an opponent booked, such as going down holding their face/head when tv replays clearly showing no contact with that body part.

[Jones28]

Some good suggestions. Not sure if this is thread for my suggestion but I’d like to see retrospective yellow cards for players feigning injury to get an opponent booked, such as going down holding their face/head when tv replays clearly showing no contact with that body part.

Agree with this too.

[Jones28]

I would like to see the idea of professionalising refereeing in Scotland as well.

Making it similar to English football/rugby where it becomes a viable career and not just a part time hobby.

[Since90+2]

The game against Ugly Sister Victim the other night got me thinking about what could be done to make the game better in general and in Scotland and our top league in particular. So I thought I'd vomit some **** down in writing here:

1. Take match timing away from the referee. The clock should be visible in the stadium, it should count down from 45 minutes and it should be stopped for injuries and substitutions and then restarted. It should also be stopped and then restarted for throw ins, fouls and that goalkeeper catch and flop that they all love to do now. That way everyone knows how much time is really left to play and time wasting becomes pointless. No favours for the twins in terms of playing on until they score or stopping sharp if they're under threat.

2. All VAR discussions to have audio released post match, without exception.

3. All VAR to be a panel of three (if it isn't already) with one panel member to be external to Scotland. Modern technology would allow this very easily.

4. Managers to be given two or three VAR challenges per match as in tennis line calls. Use it correctly and its not gone. Get it wrong and you're one appeal down.

5. Handball fouls can only be given for deliberate handball. Still the referee's call but get rid of this lunacy where a player has no clue what is going on when a ball is smashed against him at pace.

6. Sin bin for time wasting, arguing with the referee and persistent fouling.

7. Abandon this ludicrous offside playing on until a material event happens rule. It's confusing for everyone and is effectively just losing match time cumulatively during a game to no purpose. Those seconds added up over a game and a season are never added on.

8. Make referee press conferences/explanations of decisions post game mandatory. The quicker that becomes routine the quicker we start removing bias from the game and the more routine they are the easier they are for referees to do.

9. Either ban pyros and enforce it or permit and regulate them.

10. Limit substitutions to three. Large numbers benefit better resourced teams and they already have all the financial advantage.

11. Invite refereeing applications from outside Scotland.

These are just on the pitch changes, I'd have a whole other agenda for levelling the playing field between the Ugly Sisters and everyone else.

Glad I got that off my chest.

Point 1 would result in the game lasting forever. Rugby do this and it often means a game of Rugby lasts longer than a game of football despite it only being 80 minutes.

That could easily result in a game of football with VAR on top being 120 minutes long.

Far too long and it will lead to less intensity of matches as players simply won't be able to play that amount of additional time at the fitness levels currently required for such a shorter game.

[McD]

Some good suggestions, will never happen as the refs want to cover up their inept/corruptness as much as possible.

I can't see why we cant sell ref mic radios like you can but at Murrayfield for Scotland games. this allows fans to heart all the conversations between officials live.

like Rugby/NFL VAR calls should be communicated by the ref over the PA system to the fans in the ground.

Grounds with screens should be able to show the VAR footage that is seen by fans watching at home on TV. Fens inside the ground have no idea what's going on or what the clips being suggested are.

Every decision or piece of play in the penalty area needs to be reviewed by VAR, for all teams, not just when the old firm are attacking. the amount of little nit picky decisions they get compared to us and the others is staggering.

As i say none of these will happen as it will show up our officials to be what they really are.


This is the case in England and elsewhere, it’s only here where the var officials seem to get to choose whether or not to review things. Every possible penalty, offside (leading to a goal) or attacking infringement should be looked at, bar none.

[snedzuk]

Sensible points in the OP, meaning none would be taken forwards.

Alternative approach - get Rantic into some other league.

[HoboHarry]

The game against Ugly Sister Victim the other night got me thinking about what could be done to make the game better in general and in Scotland and our top league in particular. So I thought I'd vomit some **** down in writing here:

1. Take match timing away from the referee. The clock should be visible in the stadium, it should count down from 45 minutes and it should be stopped for injuries and substitutions and then restarted. It should also be stopped and then restarted for throw ins, fouls and that goalkeeper catch and flop that they all love to do now. That way everyone knows how much time is really left to play and time wasting becomes pointless. No favours for the twins in terms of playing on until they score or stopping sharp if they're under threat.

2. All VAR discussions to have audio released post match, without exception.

3. All VAR to be a panel of three (if it isn't already) with one panel member to be external to Scotland. Modern technology would allow this very easily. Fine idea but logistically would be difficult I think. The third person would need to be fluent in English and even more crucially, need to be made available by his own association on match day. Few if any countries have enough good officials and would probably resist.

4. Managers to be given two or three VAR challenges per match as in tennis line calls. Use it correctly and its not gone. Get it wrong and you're one appeal down.

5. Handball fouls can only be given for deliberate handball. Still the referee's call but get rid of this lunacy where a player has no clue what is going on when a ball is smashed against him at pace.

6. Sin bin for time wasting, arguing with the referee and persistent fouling. I'd look at implementing the rugby 10 yard rule also

7. Abandon this ludicrous offside playing on until a material event happens rule. It's confusing for everyone and is effectively just losing match time cumulatively during a game to no purpose. Those seconds added up over a game and a season are never added on. Disagree with that unless there was a goal-line technology type deal in place for offside, linesmen get it wrong sometimes thereby denying a possible goal.

8. Make referee press conferences/explanations of decisions post game mandatory. The quicker that becomes routine the quicker we start removing bias from the game and the more routine they are the easier they are for referees to do.

9. Either ban pyros and enforce it or permit and regulate them.

10. Limit substitutions to three. Large numbers benefit better resourced teams and they already have all the financial advantage.

11. Invite refereeing applications from outside Scotland. I'm willing to bet that there are budding referees all over Scotland who could develop to FIFA list standard but can't because they don't belong to the Lanarkshire and Glasgow associations. The current refereeing empire in Scotland needs to be disbanded and completely rebuilt without the toxic influence of those two associations.

These are just on the pitch changes, I'd have a whole other agenda for levelling the playing field between the Ugly Sisters and everyone else.

Glad I got that off my chest.

Good post all in all on a difficult subject....

[VoltaireHibs]

The game against Ugly Sister Victim the other night got me thinking about what could be done to make the game better in general and in Scotland and our top league in particular. So I thought I'd vomit some **** down in writing here:

1. Take match timing away from the referee. The clock should be visible in the stadium, it should count down from 45 minutes and it should be stopped for injuries and substitutions and then restarted. It should also be stopped and then restarted for throw ins, fouls and that goalkeeper catch and flop that they all love to do now. That way everyone knows how much time is really left to play and time wasting becomes pointless. No favours for the twins in terms of playing on until they score or stopping sharp if they're under threat.

2. All VAR discussions to have audio released post match, without exception.

3. All VAR to be a panel of three (if it isn't already) with one panel member to be external to Scotland. Modern technology would allow this very easily.

4. Managers to be given two or three VAR challenges per match as in tennis line calls. Use it correctly and its not gone. Get it wrong and you're one appeal down.

5. Handball fouls can only be given for deliberate handball. Still the referee's call but get rid of this lunacy where a player has no clue what is going on when a ball is smashed against him at pace.

6. Sin bin for time wasting, arguing with the referee and persistent fouling.

7. Abandon this ludicrous offside playing on until a material event happens rule. It's confusing for everyone and is effectively just losing match time cumulatively during a game to no purpose. Those seconds added up over a game and a season are never added on.

8. Make referee press conferences/explanations of decisions post game mandatory. The quicker that becomes routine the quicker we start removing bias from the game and the more routine they are the easier they are for referees to do.

9. Either ban pyros and enforce it or permit and regulate them.

10. Limit substitutions to three. Large numbers benefit better resourced teams and they already have all the financial advantage.

11. Invite refereeing applications from outside Scotland.

These are just on the pitch changes, I'd have a whole other agenda for levelling the playing field between the Ugly Sisters and everyone else.

Glad I got that off my chest.


Good post but the rules aren't really the issue. It's the implementation of them by a bunch of refs from Glasgow. Changing those rules will make zero difference until we have different refs.

[JimBHibees]

Good post but the rules aren't really the issue. It's the implementation of them by a bunch of refs from Glasgow. Changing those rules will make zero difference until we have different refs.

The location and dominance of refereeing associations is the biggest not fit for purpose reason it a shambles. Same refs year after year making the same fundamental mistakes and continue getting big games with no consequences. The fact that muppet Clancy has a key role is a huge worry in itself. A corrupt set up by corrupt people

[Malthibby]

Throw in our lot with the English league. You'll doubtless not be surprised to hear I think we're better together. :wink: Cross-border is the only possible future if we want to have meaningful club European competition that's not a "super de duper league". An Edinburgh team with access to that tv pool could be every bit as big as Celtc or Sevco.

Throw Rantic in with the English League, no problem there, & build a decent competitive Scottish League free of their poison.
Better together? Oh ma sides.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

All the non-Ugliest should have their players mic’d up against them.
Release the findings at the end of the season.

Or just Get one of the Panorama dudes to go deep undercover and infiltrate the interactions between the officials.

but really the technology exists so get a random location to “man the bunker” with officials qualified and vetted but identifies unknown.

Or perhaps (in fantasy land) better still, have AI judge incidents based on parameters.

[Eyrie]

Good suggestions so far, so some comments

Stadium clock - there was a recent proposal to do this, albeit with 30 minute halves as the ball-in-play time tends to average 55-60 minutes.

Stadium screens showing the VAR process and the ref mike being broadcast - absolutely. If the right decision is reached then there is no reason to hide it.

Challenges - this would be need to be an alternative to the current VAR official initiating a review

Foreign VAR - very possible with technology

Flag for offside when it happens - correct

Bookings for exaggerating contact - much needed. Remember the Hun launching himself five yards forward when Bushiri gave his shirt a slight tug last season?

I'll add in one more - a proper advantage rule as in rugby so players would have an incentive to stay up when fouled, knowing they'd get a second chance from the foul if nothing came of the move.

[Hibbyradge]

There is no chance that the SFA or SPFL will agree to have non-Scots referees involved.

Whether or not you think it's deserved, it would be tantamount to saying that our referees are incompetent or corrupt. If they thought that, and wanted to do something about it, they'd use internal disciplinary measures not go cap in hand to the EFA or whomever.

[Manxhibs]

I think foreign VAR would be the best route overall, as the bias Scottish officials have is clearly one of the major issues.

I don’t believe that the decision makers would allow any of your suggestions though. It’s not in their interests.

[KWJ]

I like the continuing play when it's a close offside call. Imagine the furore if the ass ref had put his flag up on Wednesday in that Dundee st. Mirren one like he did after the goal. It was about 6 yards onside and he started in his own half.

They can get it wrong, play to the whistle not the flag.

[ACLeith]

Great post ODS. Whilst there's discussion about the detail, there isn't about the principle that something has to be done, somehow.

The key for me is getting the authorities/referees moved away from the one area. I know a young lad who is making his way up the referee ladder, but is hitting the glass ceiling due to where he lives. He told me this himself and of his clear frustration. Of course the authorities will say he isn't quite good enough, but there are only 2 words needed in reply - Andrew Dallas!

Nothing will happen voluntarily, so it will need a concerted effort from the clubs - backed up by the fans - to drive it forward. A threat of a breakaway league? Major challenges with that of course, but I feel I owe it to my 2 young grandsons who are in their first year of Hibs Kids membership to make things more enjoyable for them when they've grown up.

[Torto7]

Play them at their own game. Get some young Hibees training to be refs then put pressure on them through the media over the lack of a geographical spread for refs. Once we get our plants in then its their job to chip away at the bigot Dallas who seems to be the Hunfather from what i can see. We may even win an oscar.