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View Full Version : Manchester United to rebuild Old Trafford?



Keith_M
08-02-2024, 01:31 PM
I've no idea how likely this is to actually happen but they're apparently discussing the option of building a brand new stadium, next to the current one, with a capacity (depending on who you believe) somewhere between 80k to 100k.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/13065910/man-utd-stadium-plans-will-sir-jim-ratcliffe-build-a-new-ground-and-what-will-it-mean-for-old-trafford

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/feb/07/manchester-united-and-the-future-of-old-trafford-key-questions-answered

Bostonhibby
08-02-2024, 01:40 PM
Better send for Mrs doctor Budge.

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hibsdaft
08-02-2024, 01:42 PM
I will go ballistic if a penny of taxpayer's money goes on this. A truly ludicrous suggestion.

Torto7
08-02-2024, 02:06 PM
I will go ballistic if a penny of taxpayer's money goes on this. A truly ludicrous suggestion.

It's part and parcel of being in the Union though. HS2 for example or N.Sea Oil receipts being used to develop Canary Wharf then having their entire press whinge about the Barnett formula like we're getting something good out of it.

The BBC gives more money to English Woman's football than it does to BBC Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland sport combined. the levelling up project is for the North of England and they need it. What could be more Tory or New New Labour than giving that money to the biggest football club in the UK(maybe the world) as a vanity project.

Haymaker
08-02-2024, 02:18 PM
I will go ballistic if a penny of taxpayer's money goes on this. A truly ludicrous suggestion.

I mean City and West Ham got theirs paid for by the taxpayer. I know West Ham pay rent and city pay £3m a year as well.

Stairway 2 7
08-02-2024, 02:31 PM
It's part and parcel of being in the Union though. HS2 for example or N.Sea Oil receipts being used to develop Canary Wharf then having their entire press whinge about the Barnett formula like we're getting something good out of it.

The BBC gives more money to English Woman's football than it does to BBC Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland sport combined. the levelling up project is for the North of England and they need it. What could be more Tory or New New Labour than giving that money to the biggest football club in the UK(maybe the world) as a vanity project.

We get 10% of any such projects Hs2, crossrail ect. The more daft infrastructure projects in England the better for us.

Hibs4185
08-02-2024, 02:52 PM
I’ve heard that they want 200 hotel rooms with TV’s for windows as that’s what the biggest teams do

Kato
08-02-2024, 02:59 PM
Better send for Mrs doctor Budge.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using TapatalkThey have had people visit from Man U so she could show them how its done. Not

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Stairway 2 7
08-02-2024, 03:05 PM
I’ve heard that they want 200 hotel rooms with TV’s for windows as that’s what the biggest teams do

To be fair old Traffords lounges views of Edinburgh Castle are similar to Hearts Castle skyline views

Hibbyradge
08-02-2024, 03:37 PM
To be fair old Traffords lounges views of Edinburgh Castle are similar to Hearts Castle skyline views

Possibly better.

Since90+2
08-02-2024, 03:45 PM
If they want it they'll get it, either public finances or stadium naming rights ect.

They are probably the 3rd biggest football club in the world and a 20 year stadium naming rights would be worth an absolute fortune.

There was a stadium built in LA for the Chargers and Rams that brought in 600 million dollars. That was 2019 so you could probably double that for 2024 and the fact it's Manchester United.

Hibernia&Alba
08-02-2024, 03:49 PM
The truth is the Glazers have allowed Old Trafford to fall into disrepair in the past fifteen or so years. Even basic things, such as getting a wi-fi signal inside the stadium seems impossible for them to sort out. It’s a case of renovate or re-build, and it seems that new part-owner, Jim Ratcliffe, prefers to rebuild. From what I’ve read so far, it seems the most likely option would be a new stadium on what is now a club car park behind the Stratford End.

It’s all very early days, and it mightn’t materialise,but they need to do something. Renovating Old Trafford would cost a fortune anyway, so it might be more cost effective to start from scratch. A new state of the art stadium with a capacity of around 90,000 would be amazing.

Stairway 2 7
08-02-2024, 03:55 PM
If they want it they'll get it, either public finances or stadium naming rights ect.

They are probably the 3rd biggest football club in the world and a 20 year stadium naming rights would be worth an absolute fortune.

There was a stadium built in LA for the Chargers and Rams that brought in 600 million dollars. That was 2019 so you could probably double that for 2024 and the fact it's Manchester United.

Barcelona just did a deal with Spotify £50 million per year for 4 years, that gets them stadium naming rights and strip sponsor.

Apparently a new Old Trafford would be £2 billion plus. Radcliffe is giving £240 million towards it but the club is £950 million in debt. The Qataris were offering £1.3 billion towards a new stadium but Glazers would lose more control I think

Hibbyradge
08-02-2024, 03:58 PM
If they want it they'll get it, either public finances or stadium naming rights ect.

They are probably the 3rd biggest football club in the world and a 20 year stadium naming rights would be worth an absolute fortune.

There was a stadium built in LA for the Chargers and Rams that brought in 600 million dollars. That was 2019 so you could probably double that for 2024 and the fact it's Manchester United.

Quite possibly even more than that given football is far more popular globally than run, chuck and cuddle.

Miami Dolphins sold their stadium's naming rights to Hard Rock. They were paid $250m for an 18 year contract.

A tie-up with Adidas or Nike or the likes which includes shirt sponsorship and stadium naming rights would be worth fortunes.

It'll be interesting to observe developments.

Renfrew_Hibby
08-02-2024, 04:00 PM
Once England gets its 'Wembley of the North' the quality and range of world class modern venues down south will be phenomenal. Even smaller or more provincial stadiums like Villa Park or St.James will be getting upgraded in the near future.

Our four major venues - Hampden, Celtic Park, Ibrox and Murrayfield - pale into comparison. By the time the clubs and authorities get round to doing something up here the Wembley of the North will probably have been upgraded even further.

MagicSwirlingShip
08-02-2024, 04:44 PM
Once England gets its 'Wembley of the North' the quality and range of world class modern venues down south will be phenomenal. Even smaller or more provincial stadiums like Villa Park or St.James will be getting upgraded in the near future.

Our four major venues - Hampden, Celtic Park, Ibrox and Murrayfield - pale into comparison. By the time the clubs and authorities get round to doing something up here the Wembley of the North will probably have been upgraded even further.

Not surprising considering the disparity in investment & prize money on offer between the two countries

Hibiza
08-02-2024, 04:54 PM
Out with my care and limited brain space .

ScottB
08-02-2024, 05:11 PM
Barcelona just did a deal with Spotify £50 million per year for 4 years, that gets them stadium naming rights and strip sponsor.

Apparently a new Old Trafford would be £2 billion plus. Radcliffe is giving £240 million towards it but the club is £950 million in debt. The Qataris were offering £1.3 billion towards a new stadium but Glazers would lose more control I think

I think it was revealed that the Qatari never actually proved he had the money!

Paul1642
08-02-2024, 05:12 PM
Is this even possible within the remits of financial fair play?

Carheenlea
08-02-2024, 05:17 PM
Is this even possible within the remits of financial fair play?

I just don’t understand corporate finance. £950M in debt so let’s think about building a £2B stadium.

How does it all stack up?

Pretty Boy
08-02-2024, 05:24 PM
I just don’t understand corporate finance. £950M in debt so let’s think about building a £2B stadium.

How does it all stack up?

Man Utd turnover is just shy of £700M so they can service the debt.

ScottB
08-02-2024, 06:52 PM
Is this even possible within the remits of financial fair play?

I think they’re allowed to wrack up debt building stadiums etc. Spurs borrowed over a billion to build theirs.

Fair Play just seems interested in transfer fees and wages.

gbhibby
08-02-2024, 07:01 PM
There are a number of YouTube videos showing different plans if anyone is interested was bored one night and watched a couple.

I am sure there will be a number of lenders only too willing to lend them money probably over a long term repayment

Carheenlea
08-02-2024, 07:18 PM
Man Utd turnover is just shy of £700M so they can service the debt.

Does it ever get cleared or does it just continue to get serviced?

Mind boggling numbers when read of debts and stadium rebuilds across (higher end) English football.

Spudster
08-02-2024, 07:26 PM
It's part and parcel of being in the Union though. HS2 for example or N.Sea Oil receipts being used to develop Canary Wharf then having their entire press whinge about the Barnett formula like we're getting something good out of it.

The BBC gives more money to English Woman's football than it does to BBC Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland sport combined. the levelling up project is for the North of England and they need it. What could be more Tory or New New Labour than giving that money to the biggest football club in the UK(maybe the world) as a vanity project.
“Levelling up” is UK wide

He's here!
08-02-2024, 08:51 PM
We get 10% of any such projects Hs2, crossrail ect. The more daft infrastructure projects in England the better for us.

Exactly. Was going to post similar.

That aside, what's wrong with United building a new stadium anyway? They own the land and Old Trafford has seen better days.

Pete70
09-02-2024, 10:01 AM
They can build whatever they want on their land but tax payers shouldn’t be contributing to it.

Pagan Hibernia
09-02-2024, 10:34 AM
Exactly. Was going to post similar.

That aside, what's wrong with United building a new stadium anyway? They own the land and Old Trafford has seen better days.

Absolutely nothing, if they pay for it. My house has seen better days too.

Hibrandenburg
09-02-2024, 11:15 AM
We get 10% of any such projects Hs2, crossrail ect. The more daft infrastructure projects in England the better for us.

Would be nice if we got some massive infrastructure projects realised in Scotland instead of getting the scraps from the table when they happen down south.

Stairway 2 7
09-02-2024, 02:08 PM
Would be nice if we got some massive infrastructure projects realised in Scotland instead of getting the scraps from the table when they happen down south.

That's not how it works we get 8% to use on any infrastructure we want as it's devolved, like dueling the A9 if we wanted to. If hs2 costs £100 bil we will get 8%. Cowshed territory though

WeeRussell
09-02-2024, 06:09 PM
That's not how it works we get 8% to use on any infrastructure we want as it's devolved, like dueling the A9 if we wanted to. If hs2 costs £100 bil we will get 8%. Cowshed territory though

Sounds like that is how it works then!

Didn’t you say 10% earlier?

Pretty Boy
09-02-2024, 06:26 PM
Maybe I'm missing something as I only read the Guardian article linked but that seemed to suggest it's unlikely any public funds would be spent on this yet that seems to be dominating the discussion.

Stairway 2 7
09-02-2024, 06:37 PM
Sounds like that is how it works then!

Didn’t you say 10% earlier?

It was roughly speaking but we are 8.2% of the population so that's what we get with barnett consequentials. It's openly accessible from both parliaments

Stairway 2 7
09-02-2024, 06:38 PM
Maybe I'm missing something as I only read the Guardian article linked but that seemed to suggest it's unlikely any public funds would be spent on this yet that seems to be dominating the discussion.

Yes the Times and the Guardian say the government won't give anything rightly, although the Guardian guesses that they could maybe get tax breaks

Malthibby
09-02-2024, 07:09 PM
“Levelling up” is UK wide

'Levelling up' is a Tory paper project to cover the reality that their existence is predicated on the massive and ever-increasing disparity between rich and poor.
Sorry probably wrong forum but I didn't start it - the idea of the Tories pretending to be interested in levelling up really grinds my gears.

He's here!
09-02-2024, 08:13 PM
Maybe I'm missing something as I only read the Guardian article linked but that seemed to suggest it's unlikely any public funds would be spent on this yet that seems to be dominating the discussion.

That's the way I read it too.

He's here!
09-02-2024, 08:18 PM
That's not how it works we get 8% to use on any infrastructure we want as it's devolved, like dueling the A9 if we wanted to. If hs2 costs £100 bil we will get 8%. Cowshed territory though

We're doing a great job on the A9 as a fair few Hibs fans will be reminded tomorrow...dualling pushed back to 2035 last I heard.

Keith_M
09-02-2024, 08:20 PM
Maybe I'm missing something as I only read the Guardian article linked but that seemed to suggest it's unlikely any public funds would be spent on this yet that seems to be dominating the discussion.


:agree:


Yeah, I'm confused about that as well

JimBHibees
10-02-2024, 08:04 AM
We're doing a great job on the A9 as a fair few Hibs fans will be reminded tomorrow...dualling pushed back to 2035 last I heard.

Certainly much better than it was

hibbie02
10-02-2024, 09:33 AM
Although the Glazers have let Old Trafford fall apart, they have previous for this sort of scenario.

They own the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFL. The Glazers wanted to build a modern stadium right next to the existing one, utilising the existing infrastructure (Car Park, Roads etc.) They practically forced the city council to pay for a large part of the new stadium, but kept all the commerical rights for themselves. I have no idea what the City got out of the deal. They new stadium got built and the Glazers got richer. I would imagine any new stadium won't get built unless other people pay for it.

ScottB
10-02-2024, 12:43 PM
Although the Glazers have let Old Trafford fall apart, they have previous for this sort of scenario.

They own the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFL. The Glazers wanted to build a modern stadium right next to the existing one, utilising the existing infrastructure (Car Park, Roads etc.) They practically forced the city council to pay for a large part of the new stadium, but kept all the commerical rights for themselves. I have no idea what the City got out of the deal. They new stadium got built and the Glazers got richer. I would imagine any new stadium won't get built unless other people pay for it.

It’s bizarrely common in the NFL. Essentially cities are held to ransom; build us a stadium or we’ll go somewhere that will.

Eyrie
10-02-2024, 12:46 PM
It’s bizarrely common in the NFL. Essentially cities are held to ransom; build us a stadium or we’ll go somewhere that will.

That's capitalism for you.

Plenty of money to build a stadium themselves but instead they resort to blackmail.

Haymaker
10-02-2024, 02:33 PM
It’s bizarrely common in the NFL. Essentially cities are held to ransom; build us a stadium or we’ll go somewhere that will.

All US sports. You don't want to be the Mayor of the city that loses the sports team so you use the public funds to keep them there. Most of the time anyway.

Green Reaper
10-02-2024, 02:41 PM
All US sports. You don't want to be the Mayor of the city that loses the sports team so you use the public funds to keep them there. Most of the time anyway.

Yep, Cleveland authorities put up the tax on tobacco products to fund a new stadium for the Indians years ago

FilipinoHibs
10-02-2024, 05:00 PM
I just don’t understand corporate finance. £950M in debt so let’s think about building a £2B stadium.

How does it all stack up?

Half tge debt came from the Glaziers borrowing money to buy Ma U. The debt is secured against the company. As long as they keep pay ING the interest the banks don't care. If they can't service the debt then banks take the company and sell it. It will be a similar arrangement on building a new stadium. Just a big mortgage! Man U also have over £200 million of other bank loans. These are probably secured against the Man U company. Then there are over £300 million of unpaid transfers. Probably an arrangement to pay in tranches when fees cone in for selling Man U players.