Notice of AGM

[GloryGlory]

I received this in the post this morning. (Accounts not out yet so will be issued separately).

AGM is 27 February at 6:00 p.m. The usual ordinary resolutions are there, but also special resolutions about the new investment.


Ordinary Resolutions

Authorise the directors to ALLOT ordinary shares up to nominal value of £3.1 million
The new shares under the £3.1 million will be used to convert shareholder loans of £5.75 million by Bydand Sports into ordinary shares
Then issue 70.2 million new ordinary shares to Turqouise Bidco (subsidiary of Black Knights)


Special Resolutions
One authorises directors to disapply pre-emption rights (i.e. they don't have to offer new shares to all shareholders). One is about new Articles of association.

Ordinary resolutions require 50% (+1) to pass. Special resolutions require 75% to vote for. If the ordinary resolutions re loan conversion and new share issue do not pass, the loan conversion and investment by Black knight won't go ahead.

Voting will be by poll, not a show of hands at the meeting.

[TrinityHFC]

So, looks like an option that hasn’t been hugely discussed to date which means new shares are being issued but through a debt for equity swap which means no special resolution required, other than the technical one about dis-applying pre-emption.

Someone would need to look at the numbers but Gordons could retain their majority and others would be further diluted?

[DarlingtonHibee]

Stupid questions. Is this open to shareholders, or by ballot.

[CropleyWasGod]

First thoughts are:-

Shares increased by £3.1m.

Capital now £5.6m

Turquoise Bidco have 70m shares, at 2p, which is £1.4m. 25% of club.

Not sure where the Debt for Equity swap fits, though. That loan is the equivalent of another 11.5m shares.

Not sure if HSL will vote for the Special Resolution, but it will probably pass.

The Ordinary Resolutions are nailed.

[Chipper1875]

First thoughts are:-

Shares increased by £3.1m.

Capital now £5.6m

Turquoise Bidco have 70m shares, at 2p, which is £1.4m. 25% of club.

Not sure where the DfE fits, though. That loan is the equivalent of another 11.5m shares.

Not sure if HSL will vote for the Special Resolution, but it will probably pass.

The Ordinary Resolutions are nailed.
Thought this wasn’t going to AGM? Has something changed do you think ?

[Chipper1875]

First thoughts are:-

Shares increased by £3.1m.

Capital now £5.6m

Turquoise Bidco have 70m shares, at 2p, which is £1.4m. 25% of club.

Not sure where the DfE fits, though. That loan is the equivalent of another 11.5m shares.

Not sure if HSL will vote for the Special Resolution, but it will probably pass.

The Ordinary Resolutions are nailed.

Leslie Robb may vote for it ? You’d think homework would have been done at they know this will get through

[GloryGlory]

So, looks like an option that hasn’t been hugely discussed to date which means new shares are being issued but through a debt for equity swap which means no special resolution required, other than the technical one about dis-applying pre-emption.

Someone would need to look at the numbers but Gordons could retain their majority and others would be further diluted?

There is a resolution to disapply pre-emption rights - that is so that all new shares can be offered to Black Knight without giving current shareholders any right to buy, too.

I assume the Gordons are converting debt to equity so that they retain majority control (i.e. 50%+)? Don't know how the numbers stack up with the new share issue, though, so just guessing.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thought this wasn’t going to AGM? Has something changed do you think ?

Technically, it's not going to the AGM. These are separate resolutions that don't form part of the ordinary business of the AGM. But it makes sense to have them discussed at the same time.

And it's easier to call it the AGM rather than having pedantic twats splittng hairs all the time. :cb

[TrinityHFC]

First thoughts are:-

Shares increased by £3.1m.

Capital now £5.6m

Turquoise Bidco have 70m shares, at 2p, which is £1.4m. 25% of club.

Not sure where the DfE fits, though. That loan is the equivalent of another 11.5m shares.

Not sure if HSL will vote for the Special Resolution, but it will probably pass.

The Ordinary Resolutions are nailed.

As it is on shares cast I reckon it would pass anyway even if HSL voted against.

HSL would only have a right to vote against if they felt that the other shareholders, including them, had the funds and were ready and willing to purchase additional shares to that level.

I've said a few times but the HSL aims and concept was a dead end after the Gordons takeover and will be needing another significant re-think once this goes through. Personally don't think it would be right to be taking more of people's money when the ownership percentage they are aiming for is just not possible.

[nonshinyfinish]

pedantic twats spliing hairs

"splitting"

[CropleyWasGod]

"splitting"

:not worth:not worth

[TrinityHFC]

Technically, it's not going to the AGM. These are separate resolutions that don't form part of the ordinary business of the AGM. But it makes sense to have them discussed at the same time.

And it's easier to call it the AGM rather than having pedantic twats spliing hairs all the time. :cb

I don't get your point here - never have. You can add resolutions to the AGM in addition to the 'ordinary business'.

The Notice of AGM is clear that all resolutions are being considered at the AGM. There isn't an AGM and additional General Meeting.

[Chipper1875]

Technically, it's not going to the AGM. These are separate resolutions that don't form part of the ordinary business of the AGM. But it makes sense to have them discussed at the same time.

And it's easier to call it the AGM rather than having pedantic twats splittng hairs all the time. :cb

Paperwork I’ve received it’s an AGM and resolutions are part of the AGM

[superfurryhibby]

As it is on shares cast I reckon it would pass anyway even if HSL voted against.

HSL would only have a right to vote against if they felt that the other shareholders, including them, had the funds and were ready and willing to purchase additional shares to that level.

I've said a few times but the HSL aims and concept was a dead end after the Gordons takeover and will be needing another significant re-think once this goes through. Personally don't think it would be right to be taking more of people's money when the ownership percentage they are aiming for is just not possible.

I don't think that the many hundreds of thousands of pounds ordinary fans used to buy shares or fund HSL to acquire shares should be getting diluted more.

Things move on etc, but when STF's representatives first started promoting the fans shareholding buy in, no one was thinking great we've got a great stakeholding in the club, can't wait until our new owners trash that into insignificance.

It all just shows that football, fan based investment and business practice are not comfortable bedfellows. Call me naïve, but it feels like a bit of a shafting.

[TrinityHFC]

Can anyone make the numbers work? Not my strong point.

We had 125m shares in issue of which Bydand had c84m - c67%.

The paperwork says we are issuing a further c86m shares and Black Knights are getting c70m of those.

So that would suggest we'd have c211m shares in issue. This would give Black Knights 33% which seems high - and more than we've said to the SFA.

I'm clearly missing something!

[CropleyWasGod]

Can anyone make the numbers work? Not my strong point.

We had 125m shares in issue of which Bydand had c84m - c67%.

The paperwork says we are issuing a further c86m shares and Black Knights are getting c70m of those.

So that would suggest we'd have c211m shares in issue. This would give Black Knights 33% which seems high - and more than we've said to the SFA.

I'm clearly missing something!

Leaving the DfE aside it works. 125m at 2p currently. £2.5m.

Issue another £3.1m (155m shares). Total now £5.6m (280k shares)

Turquoise people have 70m at 2p. £1.4 m. 25% of total.

Leaves £1.7m unallocated before the DfE

But I can't see where the £5.75m fits. Unless the loan is being partly written off (£4m write-off?) ?

[TrinityHFC]

I don't think that the many hundreds of thousands of pounds ordinary fans used to buy shares or fund HSL to acquire shares should be getting diluted more.

Things move on etc, but when STF's representatives first started promoting the fans shareholding buy in, no one was thinking great we've got a great stakeholding in the club, can't wait until our new owners trash that into insignificance.

It all just shows that football, fan based investment and business practice are not comfortable bedfellows. Call me naïve, but it feels like a bit of a shafting.

If you believe that fans having a certain percentage matters in the scheme of things then yes, that model gets shafted.

I think what people wanted to get out the share offer was mixed. Some will have wanted a certain percentage for protection and influence purposes, some wanted the chance to have a certificate to put on the wall and go to the AGM, some wanted to see money from the purchases going into the club. Some probably fine with a mix of all those.

So yeah, it is a choice of having people invest in the club or it being important how much fans own.

[Wheat Hound]

No coincidence it's the day before the derby rather than risk an absolute car crash of a meeting in the wake of another miserable showing.

[Ringothedog]

No coincidence it's the day before the derby rather than risk an absolute car crash of a meeting in the wake of another miserable showing.

What if we win?

[superfurryhibby]

If you believe that fans having a certain percentage matters in the scheme of things then yes, that model gets shafted.

I think what people wanted to get out the share offer was mixed. Some will have wanted a certain percentage for protection and influence purposes, some wanted the chance to have a certificate to put on the wall and go to the AGM, some wanted to see money from the purchases going into the club. Some probably fine with a mix of all those.

So yeah, it is a choice of having people invest in the club or it being important how much fans own.

I invested money in the share issue because I wanted to help ensure that Hibs would not fall victims to unscrupulous investors and to keep the club safe in the future.

I don't think it was ever clear to me that the (not too distant )future sale of the club would dilute that investment nor that the new owners could so easily carry on diluting that investment.

[Wheat Hound]

What if we win?

We might but the evidence suggests overwhelmingly otherwise and I've no doubts the board think the same hence the timing

[WhileTheChief..]

What if we win?

Things will go a bit smoother and the atmosphere at the agm won’t be as bad. Seems pretty obvious.

[scm70nyd1973]

I received this in the post this morning. (Accounts not out yet so will be issued separately).

AGM is 27 February at 6:00 p.m. The usual ordinary resolutions are there, but also special resolutions about the new investment.


Ordinary Resolutions

Authorise the directors to ALLOT ordinary shares up to nominal value of £3.1 million
The new shares under the £3.1 million will be used to convert shareholder loans of £5.75 million by Bydand Sports into ordinary shares
Then issue 70.2 million new ordinary shares to Turqouise Bidco (subsidiary of Black Knights)


Special Resolutions
One authorises directors to disapply pre-emption rights (i.e. they don't have to offer new shares to all shareholders). One is about new Articles of association.

Ordinary resolutions require 50% (+1) to pass. Special resolutions require 75% to vote for. If the ordinary resolutions re loan conversion and new share issue do not pass, the loan conversion and investment by Black knight won't go ahead.

Voting will be by poll, not a show of hands at the meeting.

Where is the AGM being held ?

[ancient hibee]

The Gordon’s swapping debt for equity would seem to show they’re in for the long haul.

[TrinityHFC]

Leaving the DfE aside it works. 125m at 2p currently. £2.5m.

Issue another £3.1m (155m shares). Total now £5.6m (280k shares)

Turquoise people have 70m at 2p. £1.4 m. 25% of total.

Leaves £1.7m unallocated before the DfE

But I can't see where the £5.75m fits. Unless the loan is being partly written off (£4m write-off?) ?

My mistake was thinking the 85m was the total new shares in issue. It will be 156m new shares and the debt will be swapped for 85m of those going to Bydand. If 70m are going to BK they end up with 25% and Bydand c61%.

HSL go to less that 7%.

[GloryGlory]

The Gordon’s swapping debt for equity would seem to show they’re in for the long haul.

Correct. In effect they've put £5.75 million of their own money into the club in the last few years. Or 5.75 million Bennies if you're of a yammish persuasion.

[GloryGlory]

Where is the AGM being held ?

ER in the Edinburgh Suite.

[scm70nyd1973]

ER in the Edinburgh Suite.

Cheers

[scm70nyd1973]

ER in the Edinburgh Suite.

I’ve just transferred 50% of my shares to my daughter.

I can’t go as I live in Spain but she can as she’s in Abbeyhill.

Since the transfer process began she has moved address so her old one is on the cert that came through 2 weeks ago. All correspondence will go to her old address.

How will she be able to attend ER and get into the AGM if she has no documentation from HFC ?

[nonshinyfinish]

Leaving the DfE aside it works. 125m at 2p currently. £2.5m.

Issue another £3.1m (155m shares). Total now £5.6m (280k shares)

Turquoise people have 70m at 2p. £1.4 m. 25% of total.

Leaves £1.7m unallocated before the DfE

But I can't see where the £5.75m fits. Unless the loan is being partly written off (£4m write-off?) ?

I might have completely misunderstood this, but aren't all of these calculations based on the nominal 2p value of a share (£1.7m = 85m x 2p shares etc)? Therefore, while the Gordons might be swapping a £5.75m debt for shares of nominal £1.7m value, they might well see the actual value of that stake in the club as higher. Does that make any sense?

[CropleyWasGod]

I might have completely misunderstood this, but aren't all of these calculations based on the nominal 2p value of a share (£1.7m = 85m x 2p shares etc)? Therefore, while the Gordons might be swapping a £5.75m debt for shares of nominal £1.7m value, they might well see the actual value of that stake in the club as higher. Does that make any sense?

You haven't misunderstood at all.

I went down that road, but with half an eye on my real life so I got lost a bit.

If 85m shares are worth £5.75m (by the way, how did we build up that debt?), each share is worth 6.8p

[nonshinyfinish]

with half an eye on my real life

Bloody part-timers.

[HibbyDave]

It’s all smoke & mirrors.

If they maintain the option to offer shares to everyone ( pre-emptive rights) I would be more aligned with the deal and the club would get more cash I would hope.


This feels very underhand to me.

[TrinityHFC]

It’s all smoke & mirrors.

If they maintain the option to offer shares to everyone ( pre-emptive rights) I would be more aligned with the deal and the club would get more cash I would hope.


This feels very underhand to me.

There's no point offering shares to existing shareholders first. The other shareholders are not sitting there ready with the millions of pounds to purchase them - and then if they did, what next? This is facilitating investment and partnership that has benefits for the club. There is no point to just offering fans the choice to put more of their money in for nothing to change.

Shares were also available for a long time before the Gordons came along.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I invested money in the share issue because I wanted to help ensure that Hibs would not fall victims to unscrupulous investors and to keep the club safe in the future.

I don't think it was ever clear to me that the (not too distant )future sale of the club would dilute that investment nor that the new owners could so easily carry on diluting that investment.

The financial advice that they made compulsory to get before buying shares would/should have covered that.

[Hibs4185]

You haven't misunderstood at all.

I went down that road, but with half an eye on my real life so I got lost a bit.

If 85m shares are worth £5.75m (by the way, how did we build up that debt?), each share is worth 6.8p

This is my first reaction. How on earth is the debt £5.75 million??

We were told £1 million for hospitality, £1 million for vente.

Maybe they’ve paid back the scottish government loan to tidy things up for the investment?

Or they’ve *****ed a lot of money unbeknown to us for little or no effect

[Chipper1875]

This is my first reaction. How on earth is the debt £5.75 million??

We were told £1 million for hospitality, £1 million for vente.

Maybe they’ve paid back the scottish government loan to tidy things up for the investment?

Or they’ve *****ed a lot of money unbeknown to us for little or no effect

Sorry missed the one million on vente , thought club don’t disclose transfer dealings ?

[HibbyDave]

There's no point offering shares to existing shareholders first. The other shareholders are not sitting there ready with the millions of pounds to purchase them - and then if they did, what next? This is facilitating investment and partnership that has benefits for the club. There is no point to just offering fans the choice to put more of their money in for nothing to change.

Shares were also available for a long time before the Gordons came along.

You can’t know how many people would have been willing in invest further.
More importantly though is the fact that the pre-emptive right to be offered the option to buy more shares is being over-ridden.

[Smartie]

This is my first reaction. How on earth is the debt £5.75 million??

We were told £1 million for hospitality, £1 million for vente.

Maybe they’ve paid back the scottish government loan to tidy things up for the investment?

Or they’ve *****ed a lot of money unbeknown to us for little or no effect

Would the final paragraph being true be a surprise to anyone?

[Hibiza]

Shaping up to be a night of fun
.

[CL0762]

This is my first reaction. How on earth is the debt £5.75 million??

We were told £1 million for hospitality, £1 million for vente.

Maybe they’ve paid back the scottish government loan to tidy things up for the investment?

Or they’ve *****ed a lot of money unbeknown to us for little or no effect

The deal for Vente was done in August, after the current reporting period for these accounts.

Any fees taken/spent in the summer & winter windows will reflect in next years accounts.

[TrinityHFC]

You can’t know how many people would have been willing in invest further.
More importantly though is the fact that the right to be offered the option to buy more shares is being over-ridden.

There are 156m new shares being allotted. Disapplying this means that these shares do not have to be issued to existing shareholders first.

I can confidently say that the HSL and the other existing private shareholders are not currently sat there with the money ready to purchase those shares - and if we did we aren't bringing to the table what the new investors are.

The power to disapply ceases at the next AGM. This doesn't rule out future shares being made available but to what ends? Fan ownership of Hibs beyond the offer that was there for a number of years is now a ship that has sailed in any material way.

[K-Zazu]

How many suites/lounges do we have now I struggle to keep up

[SickBoy32]

There's no point offering shares to existing shareholders first. The other shareholders are not sitting there ready with the millions of pounds to purchase them - and then if they did, what next? This is facilitating investment and partnership that has benefits for the club. There is no point to just offering fans the choice to put more of their money in for nothing to change.

Shares were also available for a long time before the Gordons came along.

Supposed benefits to the club

Given how our leadership have chronically weakened us since their arrival, there is no guarantee whatsoever this deal with Foley is a good one for Hibernian

[PatHead]

You haven't misunderstood at all.

I went down that road, but with half an eye on my real life so I got lost a bit.

If 85m shares are worth £5.75m (by the way, how did we build up that debt?), each share is worth 6.8p

Was my first thought re accumulated debt. In addition did we not have cash in the bank when the club was sold?

[linlithgowhibbie]

As it is on shares cast I reckon it would pass anyway even if HSL voted against.

HSL would only have a right to vote against if they felt that the other shareholders, including them, had the funds and were ready and willing to purchase additional shares to that level.

I've said a few times but the HSL aims and concept was a dead end after the Gordons takeover and will be needing another significant re-think once this goes through. Personally don't think it would be right to be taking more of people's money when the ownership percentage they are aiming for is just not possible.

Well can I just remind you that fans like me are giving the money to HSL, they are not taking it. From previous postings I can see you are not in favour of HSLs stated goals which is fair enough but no need for subtle digs! All in my humble interpretation of your posts!

[GloryGlory]

It’s all smoke & mirrors.

If they maintain the option to offer shares to everyone ( pre-emptive rights) I would be more aligned with the deal and the club would get more cash I would hope.


This feels very underhand to me.

Is it realistic to expect that a new share offering will be fully subscribed? The last one wasn't - far from it, it was massively undersubscribed, thus Leslie Robb was able to take up more shares and build up a sizeable holding.

And even in the subsequent period, when HSL still had the opportunity to buy shares, the amount of subscriptions from members were frankly not near good enough (I'm a fully paid up member of HSL, BTW) and didn't allow for more shares to be purchased.

So a new offering would likely fall flat, particularly in the middle of a cost of living crisis. Most people just couldn't afford it, certainly not in the amounts needed to match the INITIAL BK £6 million investment..

[Pagan Hibernia]

Well it's bad news for HSL and those of us who want supporters to safeguard a minority of the club to keep it from harm.

What the hell was the point in the agreement with Farmer and the club to begin with? Feels like, as usual, the fans are the losers. Take their money, then sweep the rug out from under their feet

[Chipper1875]

Was my first thought re accumulated debt. In addition did we not have cash in the bank when the club was sold?

Yes , it’s concerning. Plus the loan from the government.

[GloryGlory]

There's no point offering shares to existing shareholders first. The other shareholders are not sitting there ready with the millions of pounds to purchase them - and then if they did, what next? This is facilitating investment and partnership that has benefits for the club. There is no point to just offering fans the choice to put more of their money in for nothing to change.

Shares were also available for a long time before the Gordons came along.

:agree:

[Ringothedog]

How many suites/lounges do we have now I struggle to keep up

Not enough as they are sold out for the vast majority of the games. But in answer to your question there are , Albion Bar, Tornadoes, Edinburgh Club and Pioneers. There are a couple others but I have no idea how you get access to them

[matty_f]

Well can I just remind you that fans like me are giving the money to HSL, they are not taking it. From previous postings I can see you are not in favour of HSLs stated goals which is fair enough but no need for subtle digs! All in my humble interpretation of your posts!

I don’t think it was a dig at HSL, just a fairly accurate summary of events.

[TrinityHFC]

Well can I just remind you that fans like me are giving the money to HSL, they are not taking it. From previous postings I can see you are not in favour of HSLs stated goals which is fair enough but no need for subtle digs! All in my humble interpretation of your posts!

If you have a direct debit set up they are taking it. :greengrin

I'm a member too - but it has been difficult for HSL.

The take up wasn't really great to begin with when everything was open - for lots of reasons, not all of them in their control. Then the takeover came and one of the main goals, to build up a shareholding of 25% was pretty much dead. So too was the principle that money they use to buy shares goes to the club. After the takeover, for any future share purchases the cash would need to go to a shareholder. Members decided none the less that they wanted to keep the goal as buying shares and not using any of the money to donate to the club, fine too but the reality is that money is and will come in and there's no prospect of using to meet the goals. The holding will be down to about 7% so again, and I repeat I'm a member in that collective, the members will need to think about how right it is to keep putting money in when the goals haven't just moved, they've been dismantled.

[matty_f]

Well it's bad news for HSL and those of us who want supporters to safeguard a minority of the club to keep it from harm.

What the hell was the point in the agreement with Farmer and the club to begin with? Feels like, as usual, the fans are the losers. Take their money, then sweep the rug out from under their feet

We had ages to buy those shares from STF, but folk campaigned against HSL and the share issue, people didn’t buy into it (literally and figuratively).


We had an open goal with a tap-in if we wanted to safeguard the club and all buy shares but we ****ed it.

[LunasBoots]

Well it's bad news for HSL and those of us who want supporters to safeguard a minority of the club to keep it from harm.

What the hell was the point in the agreement with Farmer and the club to begin with? Feels like, as usual, the fans are the losers. Take their money, then sweep the rug out from under their feet

Wasn't enough fans that bought into it unfortunately, goalposts also moved after Farmer left.

[matty_f]

You haven't misunderstood at all.

I went down that road, but with half an eye on my real life so I got lost a bit.

If 85m shares are worth £5.75m (by the way, how did we build up that debt?), each share is worth 6.8p

Could that be how Foley’s money has gone in?

It’s close to the £6m quoted and if they’re creating new shares and allocating them for debt, would that tie in?

[TrinityHFC]

Wasn't enough fans that bought into it unfortunately, goalposts also moved after Farmer left.

I also don't think in reality that fan ownership or any major collective was the main goal for a lot of people. I bought the shares direct because I just wanted to be an actual shareholder for the certificate and the AGM invite!

I joined HSL as a way of donating every month direct to Hibs, which was made possible by STF being happy for his own holding to be diluted and the money to go straight to the club. Personally I wasn't bothered about HSL building a holding, getting seat on the board or being able to block any votes in the future. I accept lots of people did have that goal but it would be wrong I think to say that at the time there was any big feeling that we had to build up a shareholding as part of the STF offer.

[superfurryhibby]

I don’t think it was a dig at HSL, just a fairly accurate summary of events.


We had ages to buy those shares from STF, but folk campaigned against HSL and the share issue, people didn’t buy into it (literally and figuratively).


We had an open goal with a tap-in if we wanted to safeguard the club and all buy shares but we ****ed it.

I don't think you've really done the efforts of the fans justice with those observations. Between HSL and small shareholders, there was something like 28% of the club purchased before dilution. That represents a lot of cash and a massive effort, particularly as the club wasn't facing extinction at the time. Some of us had also done this before and been stung before (thanks Mr Duff and accomplices).

[GloryGlory]

I also don't think in reality that fan ownership or any major collective was the main goal for a lot of people. I bought the shares direct because I just wanted to be an actual shareholder for the certificate and the AGM invite!

I joined HSL as a way of donating every month direct to Hibs, which was made possible by STF being happy for his own holding to be diluted and the money to go straight to the club. Personally I wasn't bothered about HSL building a holding, getting seat on the board or being able to block any votes in the future. I accept lots of people did have that goal but it would be wrong I think to say that at the time there was any big feeling that we had to build up a shareholding as part of the STF offer.

:agree:

I'm the same - I bought shares on my own account and also contributed to HSL to buy shares. Whilst I'm glad for HSL to be involved with the club as shareholders I wouldn't be happy for my admittedly tiny part of HSL's shareholding to be voted against this opportunity of new investment to benefit the club. I suppose HSL will consult members to see what our view is

[matty_f]

I don't think you've really done the efforts of the fans justice with those observations. Between HSL and small shareholders, there was something like 28% of the club purchased before dilution. That represents a lot of cash and a massive effort, particularly as the club wasn't facing extinction at the time. Some of us had also done this before and been stung before (thanks Mr Duff and accomplices).

I don't think I'm miles off, to be honest. I bought some shares and I bought into HSL as well - it's not what we did, it's what we didn't do.

I think folk got behind it to an extent, but I don't think anyone could put their hand on their heart and say that the support galvanised and got behind it. There were folk that wouldn't buy into HSL because they didn't like the name, FFS.

I don't want to be disparaging to those of us who backed it, but as a support we can't complain that the option's no longer on the table when we looked the other way when it was there, IMHO.

[GloryGlory]

Was my first thought re accumulated debt. In addition did we not have cash in the bank when the club was sold?

ISTR the club was sold in the summer - we would probs have had a lot of cash in the bank at that point, much of which was season ticket money that had already been committed to meet expenditure as it arose in the year ahead

[Hibs4185]

I’m all for the Foley investment and I only have positive things to say about the Gordon’s but if debt to the Gordon family is £5.75 million when we were debt free and a healthy cash balance at the time, then for me this is hugely concerning.

[Chorley Hibee]

Would the final paragraph being true be a surprise to anyone?

Absolutely not.

I'm convinced the forthcoming accounts (this year and next year) will confirm that.

All the more reason why I'm not hoodwinked into believing Kensall and the Gordon family have done such a great job brining in this additional revenue via hospitality etc, only to piss it all away (and more) on their ridiculous recruitment policy both on and off the pitch.

[Keith_M]

We had ages to buy those shares from STF, but folk campaigned against HSL and the share issue, people didn’t buy into it (literally and figuratively).


We had an open goal with a tap-in if we wanted to safeguard the club and all buy shares but we ****ed it.


That was exactly the problem.

It was a combination of apathy, and certain people claiming it was all a 'scam'.

[Ringothedog]

I also don't think in reality that fan ownership or any major collective was the main goal for a lot of people. I bought the shares direct because I just wanted to be an actual shareholder for the certificate and the AGM invite!

I joined HSL as a way of donating every month direct to Hibs, which was made possible by STF being happy for his own holding to be diluted and the money to go straight to the club. Personally I wasn't bothered about HSL building a holding, getting seat on the board or being able to block any votes in the future. I accept lots of people did have that goal but it would be wrong I think to say that at the time there was any big feeling that we had to build up a shareholding as part of the STF offer.

This was the same for me. I continued to pay HSL for my dad long after he passed just so as I could get the certificate with his name on. I still donate to HSL but with no money going to Hibs in any great numbers I feel it is time for HSL to consider their future as the goal of ever owning 25% of our great club has gone

[MelbourneHibees]

Could some of the debt have came from having to sack Johnson?

[Ozyhibby]

I’d be asking what happened to the money received from Melkerson and Doig? Was it spent on all these loans?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TrinityHFC]

Absolutely not.

I'm convinced the forthcoming accounts (this year and next year) will confirm that.

All the more reason why I'm not hoodwinked into believing Kensall and the Gordon family have done such a great job brining in this additional revenue via hospitality etc, to then piss it all away (and more) on their ridiculous recruitment policy both on and off the pitch.

I think it will reflect the capital investment which has been funded by the Gordons. Investment which has been felt will be beneficial for building revenue to help us grow further in the future. I'm not an accountant but I think this needs to be reflected as loans rather than just money being donated.

It is helpful for them to be happy for this to be converted to shares rather than being paid back to them by the club. In theory they get that value paid to them in the future when someone purchases their shares from them.

[Billy Whizz]

ISTR the club was sold in the summer - we would probs have had a lot of cash in the bank at that point, much of which was season ticket money that had already been committed to meet expenditure as it arose in the year ahead

The accounts to June 2019 showed we had £5.3m cash in bank at hand, and £5.1m as of June 2022

[Sergio sledge]

The debt to Bydand was around £2m in the last published accounts (up to the end of June 2022). I think this was spent on the big screens, LED banners, perhaps some players?

Since then we've had the money invested in the hospitality, Solar panels on the East Stand (and at the training centre?), new floodlights, new hybrid pitch and fees spent on Vente, Youan and Levitt (anywhere up to £2m rumoured).

Could certainly see those things adding an additional £3m+ to the borrowings from Bydand.

If they are effectively writing this off (debt for equity) for a nominal share value of £1.7m then that's a great deal for the club surely, rather than being a negative, although I can understand the argument it has been largely wasted when it comes to the purchase of players.

I suppose it remains to be seen if they are writing off the full debt for that amount though.

[Smartie]

I’d be asking what happened to the money received from Melkerson and Doig? Was it spent on all these loans?


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The reason I've not been more bothered about our finances is because we've clearly been bringing decent money back in - there'll have been a few buttons for Porteous and money for Nisbet to take into consideration as well.

The lack of anyone else really coming through who we look like we'd be able to sell on is a concern.

It wouldn't surprise me if we're at the early "we better tighten things up a bit" stage rather than in full blown crisis but I'd be amazed tbh if all was entirely healthy.

Did we ever publicise how many season tickets we sold?

I also have a hunch that the deal to bring Boyle back probably didn't represent anything like good financial sense, although we may not have had much choice in the matter.

[matty_f]

Does anyone have the accounts that tell us what the actual situation is?

[MelbourneHibees]

Does anyone have the accounts that tell us what the actual situation is?

No released yet.

[scoopyboy]

I’d be asking what happened to the money received from Melkerson and Doig? Was it spent on all these loans?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not within the financial year

[Stairway 2 7]

The debt to Bydand was around £2m in the last published accounts (up to the end of June 2022). I think this was spent on the big screens, LED banners, perhaps some players?

Since then we've had the money invested in the hospitality, Solar panels on the East Stand (and at the training centre?), new floodlights, new hybrid pitch and fees spent on Vente, Youan and Levitt (anywhere up to £2m rumoured).

Could certainly see those things adding an additional £3m+ to the borrowings from Bydand.

If they are effectively writing this off (debt for equity) for a nominal share value of £1.7m then that's a great deal for the club surely, rather than being a negative, although I can understand the argument it has been largely wasted when it comes to the purchase of players.

I suppose it remains to be seen if they are writing off the full debt for that amount though.

Where I am with it

[PatHead]

The reason I've not been more bothered about our finances is because we've clearly been bringing decent money back in - there'll have been a few buttons for Porteous and money for Nisbet to take into consideration as well.

The lack of anyone else really coming through who we look like we'd be able to sell on is a concern.

It wouldn't surprise me if we're at the early "we better tighten things up a bit" stage rather than in full blown crisis but I'd be amazed tbh if all was entirely healthy.

Did we ever publicise how many season tickets we sold?

I also have a hunch that the deal to bring Boyle back probably didn't represent anything like good financial sense, although we may not have had much choice in the matter.

Doig transfer fee to add to the in column. In the coming years accounts Melkerson and the American guy will be incoming money but lack of cup run will hurt.

Not sure how the £5m figure has arisen

[Leithenhibby]

Well can I just remind you that fans like me are giving the money to HSL, they are not taking it. From previous postings I can see you are not in favour of HSLs stated goals which is fair enough but no need for subtle digs! All in my humble interpretation of your posts!


Well said, at every turn, TrinityHFC is waiting...:aok:

Glory Glory

[El Gubbz]

Getting pretty concerned about the “investment” the more I look at the numbers posted out with the AGM notice. Done some back of a fag packet calcs to present how the share % will change if we vote the boards proposal through.

Ultimately I think there are many benefits to be part of a “football group” but with IG and BK already proving consistently they can’t run a FOOTBALL club despite being hugely successfully on the commercial front I have little faith in their ability to perform the due diligence required to give me confidence that this direction is worth fan ownership dropping form 33% (more than enough to stop any kind of future malice) to under 15% (leaving us without a voice should the assortment of Americans get bored in this project).

FWIW the Gordons have shown that they care about the club but other than cash they’ve no real skin in the game of this soon to be 150 year old club - I just wonder what we’re willing to forego for the chance of a sniff of success / loans from “big English clubs”.

If anyone’s of the same mind - hit me up with a DM, be good to get a call/pint and discuss the merits of the proposal. Not a vote I’ll be taking lightly despite it being as good as through imo

[Chipper1875]

Is the Black Knights investment a loan (debt on balance sheet) or they getting shares for their money ?

[PatHead]

Getting pretty concerned about the “investment” the more I look at the numbers posted out with the AGM notice. Done some back of a fag packet calcs to present how the share % will change if we vote the boards proposal through.

Ultimately I think there are many benefits to be part of a “football group” but with IG and BK already proving consistently they can’t run a FOOTBALL club despite being hugely successfully on the commercial front I have little faith in their ability to perform the due diligence required to give me confidence that this direction is worth fan ownership dropping form 33% (more than enough to stop any kind of future malice) to under 15% (leaving us without a voice should the assortment of Americans get bored in this project).

FWIW the Gordons have shown that they care about the club but other than cash they’ve no real skin in the game of this soon to be 150 year old club - I just wonder what we’re willing to forego for the chance of a sniff of success / loans from “big English clubs”.

If anyone’s of the same mind - hit me up with a DM, be good to get a call/pint and discuss the merits of the proposal. Not a vote I’ll be taking lightly despite it being as good as through imo
Agree that they haven't really made an "investment" but it appears given us secured loans at an unknown rate which they are now calling in.

[Paul1642]

The reason I've not been more bothered about our finances is because we've clearly been bringing decent money back in - there'll have been a few buttons for Porteous and money for Nisbet to take into consideration as well.

The lack of anyone else really coming through who we look like we'd be able to sell on is a concern.

It wouldn't surprise me if we're at the early "we better tighten things up a bit" stage rather than in full blown crisis but I'd be amazed tbh if all was entirely healthy.

Did we ever publicise how many season tickets we sold?

I also have a hunch that the deal to bring Boyle back probably didn't represent anything like good financial sense, although we may not have had much choice in the matter.

Disregarding the current poor performance, everything happening at the club suggests to me that we will be doing the opposite of tightening up.

I think this summer will be our most ambitious transfer window since the 90s (but with the finances to back it up this time), and we are also going to be investing in infrastructure which is never a bad thing long term.

I’ll let the more financially astute folk on here keep analyse the account when they are out but I really can’t foresee being invested in by a group of Billionaires coincide with belt tightening.

[Chipper1875]

Agree that they haven't really made an "investment" but it appears given us secured loans at an unknown rate which they are now calling in.

Do you mean Bydand sports ? It’s been covered at AGM , been highlighted lots of places about the charges they took over Easter road and east mains . People
Seem to have been blinded by Ron’s given as loads of money …

Rate is at a decent rate , if we default the interest rate goes up

Also, they are very slow in getting accounts out to shareholders, making it hard to remember what’s being going on

[ancient hibee]

Agree that they haven't really made an "investment" but it appears given us secured loans at an unknown rate which they are now calling in.


Do you mean Bydand sports ? It’s been covered at AGM , been highlighted lots of places about the charges they took over Easter road and east mains . People
Seem to have been blinded by Ron’s given as loads of money …

Rate is at a decent rate , if we default the interest rate goes up

Also, they are very slow in getting accounts out to shareholders, making it hard to remember what’s being going on

If you guys mean the Gordons/Bydland are calling up their loans to the club you couldn't be more wrong. They are changing their loans to shares so the club will not have to repay them .Clearly the best thing that could happen.

[Chipper1875]

If you guys mean the Gordons/Bydland are calling up their loans to the club you couldn't be more wrong. They are changing their loans to shares so the club will not have to repay them .Clearly the best thing that could happen.

Nope l mentioned nothing about that , just gave info re loans. Also, removing debt on balance on sheet, increase value of their shares and the business

[MelbourneHibees]

Disregarding the current poor performance, everything happening at the club suggests to me that we will be doing the opposite of tightening up.

I think this summer will be our most ambitious transfer window since the 90s (but with the finances to back it up this time), and we are also going to be investing in infrastructure which is never a bad thing long term.

I’ll let the more financially astute folk on here keep analyse the account when they are out but I really can’t foresee being invested in by a group of Billionaires coincide with belt tightening.
What sort of investment have Lorient had in the 13 months since Foley invested? Genuine question as I think that would give us the best idea of what to expect.

[Stairway 2 7]

Agree that they haven't really made an "investment" but it appears given us secured loans at an unknown rate which they are now calling in.

Converting debt to shares. So we get millions in actual cash to invest in players, build hospitality, screens, hybrid pitch ect and they get new shares and similar holding that they had

[Ringothedog]

Do you mean Bydand sports ? It’s been covered at AGM , been highlighted lots of places about the charges they took over Easter road and east mains . People
Seem to have been blinded by Ron’s given as loads of money …

Rate is at a decent rate , if we default the interest rate goes up

Also, they are very slow in getting accounts out to shareholders, making it hard to remember what’s being going on

Where can we find out the details of the loans and the interest rates being charged?
What difference does it make when the accounts are made available? They are for a set period and will show the income , outgoings and loans over the financial year

[Paul1642]

What sort of investment have Lorient had in the 13 months since Foley invested? Genuine question as I think that would give us the best idea of what to expect.

Not the slightest idea to be perfectly honest.

I just think that the combined wealth of those investing is us is a staggering amount and any money that they could possibly gain from Hibs is quite literally peanuts to them. Based on this the only reason I can see them investing in us because they want to make a success out of us. It’s all Monopoly money to these guys anyway.

[ancient hibee]

Nope l mentioned nothing about that , just gave info re loans. Also, removing debt on balance on sheet, increase value of their shares and the business

Transferring debt to equity means that instead of the club owing money to Bydland they don’t. Obviously far better for the club.Their shares will only be worth more if the business is successful and somebody wants to buy it.

[Chipper1875]

Where can we find out the details of the loans and the interest rates being charged?
What difference does it make when the accounts are made available? They are for a set period and will show the income , outgoings and loans over the financial year

There maybe be details on companies within the paperwork re charges over assets . The interest rates were shared at AGM as a result of questions asked . It wasn’t included in the accounts.

[speedy_gonzales]

Have all shareholders on this site received the letter?
I've missed the last two accounts/AGM's due to moving house and my address not being updated.
It was confirmed last year (in the January) by Chris Gaunt as being updated, but I still never received anything.

[matty_f]

Have all shareholders on this site received the letter?
I've missed the last two accounts/AGM's due to moving house and my address not being updated.
It was confirmed last year (in the January) by Chris Gaunt as being updated, but I still never received anything.

I never got a letter today, i suspect it’ll come tomorrow.

[speedy_gonzales]

I never got a letter today, i suspect it’ll come tomorrow.

Cheers Matty 👍🏻

[mixusman]

What sort of investment have Lorient had in the 13 months since Foley invested? Genuine question as I think that would give us the best idea of what to expect.

just had a Quick Look at the league table for fc lorient, hope it’s not a worrying sign , but 2nd bottom in relegation zone after 20 games 🫣

[007]

The debt to Bydand was around £2m in the last published accounts (up to the end of June 2022). I think this was spent on the big screens, LED banners, perhaps some players?

Since then we've had the money invested in the hospitality, Solar panels on the East Stand (and at the training centre?), new floodlights, new hybrid pitch and fees spent on Vente, Youan and Levitt (anywhere up to £2m rumoured).

Could certainly see those things adding an additional £3m+ to the borrowings from Bydand.

If they are effectively writing this off (debt for equity) for a nominal share value of £1.7m then that's a great deal for the club surely, rather than being a negative, although I can understand the argument it has been largely wasted when it comes to the purchase of players.

I suppose it remains to be seen if they are writing off the full debt for that amount though.

Plus fitting out the West Stand hospitality, which will likely account for a large part of the £2m.

[DavieRoy]

The worrying thing for me is the debt that has been built up and the need to convert it into equity.

If new investment is coming in and it is going to be spent in different ways then fine but what if it is squandered again and more debt gets built up. Let's be honest, the recruitment is dire and we seemed to be speculating to accumulate which is risky.

Also, it seems a bit of a power grab or rather diminishing any say the fan shareholders have.

The guy Robb with 10% must be voting for it otherwise they wouldn't go this far.

What annoys me is, this might be good, it might be bad but it appears like the Gordon's have tried to limit scrutiny to me. If they have done a deal with Robb then it doesn't look transparent. Ultimately nothing wrong as it would represent more than 75% of shares but if it is so good, then sell it to us rather than make everyone think there is a pot of gold when it is more complex than that.

[CentreLine]

Plus fitting out the West Stand hospitality, which will likely account for a large part of the £2m.

Does that mean the various transfer fees we have received have also gone in to these projects? I’m feeling very uncomfortable about this, maybe because I don’t understand company finance but hope there is a genuine explanation at the AGM.

[Chipper1875]

The worrying thing for me is the debt that has been built up and the need to convert it into equity.

If new investment is coming in and it is going to be spent in different ways then fine but what if it is squandered again and more debt gets built up. Let's be honest, the recruitment is dire and we seemed to be speculating to accumulate which is risky.

Also, it seems a bit of a power grab or rather diminishing any say the fan shareholders have.

The guy Robb with 10% must be voting for it otherwise they wouldn't go this far.

What annoys me is, this might be good, it might be bad but it appears like the Gordon's have tried to limit scrutiny to me. If they have done a deal with Robb then it doesn't look transparent. Ultimately nothing wrong as it would represent more than 75% of shares but if it is so good, then sell it to us rather than make everyone think there is a pot of gold when it is more complex than that.

Does anyone know if Robb goes to the games ?

[TrinityHFC]

The worrying thing for me is the debt that has been built up and the need to convert it into equity.

If new investment is coming in and it is going to be spent in different ways then fine but what if it is squandered again and more debt gets built up. Let's be honest, the recruitment is dire and we seemed to be speculating to accumulate which is risky.

Also, it seems a bit of a power grab or rather diminishing any say the fan shareholders have.

The guy Robb with 10% must be voting for it otherwise they wouldn't go this far.

What annoys me is, this might be good, it might be bad but it appears like the Gordon's have tried to limit scrutiny to me. If they have done a deal with Robb then it doesn't look transparent. Ultimately nothing wrong as it would represent more than 75% of shares but if it is so good, then sell it to us rather than make everyone think there is a pot of gold when it is more complex than that.

You don’t get much more scrutiny than asking shareholders to vote. The fact is that the owners have 67% and they will pretty much pass what they like. That’s what comes with owning things!

They don’t need Robb to vote with them really. For the special resolution the 75% applies to the percentage of votes cast, not the percentage of the share register. It will pass easily with the Gordons voting for it.

[DavieRoy]

Does anyone know if Robb goes to the games ?

Not sure.

For me, HSL might and individual shareholder might vote in favour anyway but it seems as if the spin is focus on Billionaire, investment and transfer money rather than sell the vision and lay all the cards on the table.

Yes, the AGM may be the place to do it but let's be honest, it is obviously already agreed. Transparency is an issue and if there is nothing to hide then sell the vision properly.

[DavieRoy]

You don’t get much more scrutiny than asking shareholders to vote. The fact is that the owners have 67% and they will pretty much pass what they like. That’s what comes with owning things!

They don’t need Robb to vote with them really. For the special resolution the 75% applies to the percentage of votes cast, not the percentage of the share register. It will pass easily with the Gordons voting for it.

They don't own the whole club and the scrutiny doesn't matter if they have agreed with Robb. Yes, they might get it over the line themselves but they would make sure they have an insurance policy to guarantee it.

Should Robb state his position publicly, even if he is under no obligation. Do fans deserve to know what he thinks?

[Chipper1875]

You don’t get much more scrutiny than asking shareholders to vote. The fact is that the owners have 67% and they will pretty much pass what they like. That’s what comes with owning things!

They don’t need Robb to vote with them really. For the special resolution the 75% applies to the percentage of votes cast, not the percentage of the share register. It will pass easily with the Gordons voting for it.

If Rob and HSL vote against it , the resolution fails ?

[TrinityHFC]

They don't own the whole club and the scrutiny doesn't matter if they have agreed with Robb. Yes, they might get it over the line themselves but they would make sure they have an insurance policy to guarantee it.

Should Robb state his position publicly, even if he is under no obligation. Do fans deserve to know what he thinks?

They own enough to do pretty much what they like.

They don’t need to have done any deal with Robb and he’s under no obligation of any sort to tell anyone what he thinks about anything.

If you are a shareholder you’ve every right to attend the AGM and ask any questions you like about the business to be voted on.

[TrinityHFC]

If Ron and HSL vote against it , the resolution fails ?

Yes, if those two feel strongly enough about dis-applying pre-emption rights then that resolution will fail and the other share related items wouldn’t take place.

[jacomo]

What if we win?


Ben goes full Rubiales, jumps on the table and grabs his crotch while roaring his head off?

:dunno:

[DavieRoy]

They own enough to do pretty much what they like.

They don’t need to have done any deal with Robb and he’s under no obligation of any sort to tell anyone what he thinks about anything.

If you are a shareholder you’ve every right to attend the AGM and ask any questions you like about the business to be voted on.

I get all that. That is why I said, 'even if he is under no obligation'.

You are being matter of fact and you are right, I am just putting out there as both a shareholder and fan, it would be good to know more about what he thinks. If he is convinced and tells us why, it might make me back it.

He is under no obligation. Just because it is a football club, we have no right to know why he would back this if he doesn't want to say. Would it no be more transparent though?

[Billy Whizz]

If Rob and HSL vote against it , the resolution fails ?

Presume you mean Robb? Wonder if him and HSL are having a chat as we speak

I’ll be honest, any more time under the ownership of Gordon and Kensell is giving me the fear. They’ll still have control and the BK Group can’t buy Hibs under current rules
I gather Lorient fans don’t want Foley anywhere near their ground either

I think every Hibs fans really need to see the fine detail of this. If this goes through we’ll never have any say in our club ever, other than by protests

[Jack]

Plus fitting out the West Stand hospitality, which will likely account for a large part of the £2m.

IIRC the money to do up the hospitality was from the interest free Scottish Government covid loan.

[TrinityHFC]

I get all that. That is why I said, 'even if he is under no obligation'.

You are being matter of fact and you are right, I am just putting out there as both a shareholder and fan, it would be good to know more about what he thinks. If he is convinced and tells us why, it might make me back it.

He is under no obligation. Just because it is a football club, we have no right to know why he would back this if he doesn't want to say. Would it no be more transparent though?

He’s just a bloke with a bit of cash that allowed him to put a chunk of it in Hibs. He isn’t a party to this and it’s nothing to do with any of us what he thinks about it. Those involved have detailed the resolutions we are being asked to vote on, we can ask all the questions we want and then we can all vote.

[DavieRoy]

He’s just a bloke with a bit of cash that allowed him to put a chunk of it in Hibs. He isn’t a party to this and it’s nothing to do with any of us what he thinks about it. Those involved have detailed the resolutions we are being asked to vote on, we can ask all the questions we want and then we can all vote.

Well, I think he is party to this and I want to know what he is doing and how it is going to impact on the club I support. I am not entitled to know, I have no right to know but I think we all should know. You will repeat that he can do whatever he wants and you are right but so what.

Plus, it makes no difference what we ask, say or do at the AGM, the Gordon's and Robb will get this through.

[TrinityHFC]

Well, I think he is party to this and I want to know what he is doing and how it is going to impact on the club I support. I am not entitled to know, I have no right to know but I think we all should know. You will repeat that he can do whatever he wants and you are right but so what.

Plus, it makes no difference what we ask, say or do at the AGM, the Gordon's and Robb will get this through.

What you think, as we both know I reckon, is nothing to do with it. There’s no indication at all that any private shareholder is acting in concert with other shareholders.

Anyway, whilst the theory of how this might get voted down is all very interesting it isn’t going to happen, as you say.

[Callum_62]

Looking forward immensely to the summer window

Reckon it will be a record breaking window in terms of fees

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Hibees1973]

Reading through the last few pages has been interesting.

Some guys on here seem to have some understanding what is going on but most feel there is a lack of clarity and transparency. Maybe the AGM will iron out some of the details, but at the end of the day minor shareholders like me and supporters like out there can't do anything about it. Seems to me the deal is done.

Ian Gordon and Kensell have driven this deal with Foley. Thankfully and finally there is a growing consensus on hibs.net and other Hibs supporters I know that anything that Ian Gordon and Kensell have been involved in cannot be trusted. I'm old enough to remember Duff & Gray. Guys who meant well , but didn't have a clue which led the club to the brink of oblivion.

I've had serious doubts about these two for some time. Sadly I think we are too far into this deal with Foley to back out.

[matty_f]

I might have missed an answer on this but the Debt for Equity that's being voted on, could that be on the basis of Foley lending that amount to the club and then taking shares for it? I'm not sure what, if any, point there would be in doing that, but it would seem a bit of a coincidence that the amount is almost the c£6m investment figure that was quoted in earlier reports and that we've not had any inkling that the club might have borrowed such a significant amount until now.

[matty_f]

Reading through the last few pages has been interesting.

Some guys on here seem to have some understanding what is going on but most feel there is a lack of clarity and transparency. Maybe the AGM will iron out some of the details, but at the end of the day minor shareholders like me and supporters like out there can't do anything about it. Seems to me the deal is done.

Ian Gordon and Kensell have driven this deal with Foley. Thankfully and finally there is a growing consensus on hibs.net and other Hibs supporters I know that anything that Ian Gordon and Kensell have been involved in cannot be trusted. I'm old enough to remember Duff & Gray. Guys who meant well , but didn't have a clue which led the club to the brink of oblivion.

I've had serious doubts about these two for some time. Sadly I think we are too far into this deal with Foley to back out.

I don't get how there's a lack of transparency when the items that are to be discussed have been circulated and we're all discussing it on here? That seems to me the least cloak and dagger thing to do.

[TrinityHFC]

I don't get how there's a lack of transparency when the items that are to be discussed have been circulated and we're all discussing it on here? That seems to me the least cloak and dagger thing to do.

Yep, always seems like lack of understanding equates to lack of transparency but then quickly moves to a conclusion that individuals can’t be trusted!

I think there’s been a fair amount of clarification of what the technical resolutions mean.

[TrinityHFC]

I might have missed an answer on this but the Debt for Equity that's being voted on, could that be on the basis of Foley lending that amount to the club and then taking shares for it? I'm not sure what, if any, point there would be in doing that, but it would seem a bit of a coincidence that the amount is almost the c£6m investment figure that was quoted in earlier reports and that we've not had any inkling that the club might have borrowed such a significant amount until now.

Don’t think so. The debt has been the mechanism to get our recent investment done. Turning it into shares now gives the Gordons the level of additional shares they need to retain their level of holding. As we are issuing new shares the BKs will pay for their 25%. That can go into the club as it isn’t from the Gordons’ holding. Think that roughly equates to the £6m type of level being talked about.

I think…

[Pretty Boy]

I might have missed an answer on this but the Debt for Equity that's being voted on, could that be on the basis of Foley lending that amount to the club and then taking shares for it? I'm not sure what, if any, point there would be in doing that, but it would seem a bit of a coincidence that the amount is almost the c£6m investment figure that was quoted in earlier reports and that we've not had any inkling that the club might have borrowed such a significant amount until now.

I think that poses a question about how Foley will fund the club in future.

I believe he has written off in the region of £90M in loans to Bournemouth in a debt for equity swap relatively recently. Whatever the specifics there has also been some kind of debt for equity deal with Bydland/the Gordons at Hibs.

Given the limitations imposed on Foley's current and future shareholding by the SFA ongoing debt for equity deals aren't going to be readily possible if his investment is in the form of loans as, even with the constant creation of new shares, they would tip him over that 29% limit. It's something that would be good to have a bit clarity on, it's not necessarily anything to worry about at the moment (or at all) but we have no idea how this will evolve in the next 10, 15 or whatever years and the impact of substantial debt in the form of loans to the club from a minority shareholder.

[CropleyWasGod]

I might have missed an answer on this but the Debt for Equity that's being voted on, could that be on the basis of Foley lending that amount to the club and then taking shares for it? I'm not sure what, if any, point there would be in doing that, but it would seem a bit of a coincidence that the amount is almost the c£6m investment figure that was quoted in earlier reports and that we've not had any inkling that the club might have borrowed such a significant amount until now.

Hiya Matty. I did see that question, but couldn't answer at the time.

I think it is coincidence. For one thing, isn't it the Bydand loan that is being converted? And I agree that there would be little point in Foley lending us that cash, and then converting it to shares. He'd be as well just taking out shares in the first place.

[007]

IIRC the money to do up the hospitality was from the interest free Scottish Government covid loan.

Not according to the accounts. It was from the £2m loan.

The govt loan was at the beginning of the 2021/2022 season and contributed to covering costs whilst our income was impacted due to covid. The hospitality upgrade was before the start of the following season.

Some of our costs in 2021/2022 were for the big screens, not long after the government loans so maybe that's what you're thinking of. So arguably we just did what anyone would do when given a big wad of interest free money, went out and bought a massive f***-off tv....x2.

[MelbourneHibees]

People thinking we are going to be spending big fees this summer need to reconsider their expectations. If we were signing players on big money then they'd be getting loaned to teams in a more competitive league that the SPFL Premiership immediately. If they do well we might get some decent fees when we sell them to Bournemouth however, to buy our own players.

[matty_f]

Hiya Matty. I did see that question, but couldn't answer at the time.

I think it is coincidence. For one thing, isn't it the Bydand loan that is being converted? And I agree that there would be little point in Foley lending us that cash, and then converting it to shares. He'd be as well just taking out shares in the first place.
Yeah, actually just went and read the OP properly, it’s clearly Bydand where the loan has come from. Thanks (and to Trinity for their answer as well).

[MelbourneHibees]

People thinking we are going to be spending big fees this summer need to reconsider their expectations. If we were signing players on big money then they'd be getting loaned to teams in a more competitive league that the SPFL Premiership immediately. If they do well we might get some decent fees when we sell them to Bournemouth however, to buy our own players.

I'd also add however that we probably can expect more loans from Bournemouth youth squad who youd like to think will be a decent standard.

[Lago]

Reading through the last few pages has been interesting.

Some guys on here seem to have some understanding what is going on but most feel there is a lack of clarity and transparency. Maybe the AGM will iron out some of the details, but at the end of the day minor shareholders like me and supporters like out there can't do anything about it. Seems to me the deal is done.

Ian Gordon and Kensell have driven this deal with Foley. Thankfully and finally there is a growing consensus on hibs.net and other Hibs supporters I know that anything that Ian Gordon and Kensell have been involved in cannot be trusted. I'm old enough to remember Duff & Gray. Guys who meant well , but didn't have a clue which led the club to the brink of oblivion.

I've had serious doubts about these two for some time. Sadly I think we are too far into this deal with Foley to back out.
So attend and ask questions, express your dissatisfaction.

[jacomo]

Reading through the last few pages has been interesting.

Some guys on here seem to have some understanding what is going on but most feel there is a lack of clarity and transparency. Maybe the AGM will iron out some of the details, but at the end of the day minor shareholders like me and supporters like out there can't do anything about it. Seems to me the deal is done.

Ian Gordon and Kensell have driven this deal with Foley. Thankfully and finally there is a growing consensus on hibs.net and other Hibs supporters I know that anything that Ian Gordon and Kensell have been involved in cannot be trusted. I'm old enough to remember Duff & Gray. Guys who meant well , but didn't have a clue which led the club to the brink of oblivion.

I've had serious doubts about these two for some time. Sadly I think we are too far into this deal with Foley to back out.


If you don’t trust Ian and Ben, wouldn’t you be happy to have another strong voice at the table?

Duff and Gray got us into financial bother through ill-advised commercial ventures that were supposed to benefit the club but ended up exposing Hibs to mortal risk. That’s not the concern here, because - financially speaking - we are a very minor concern to the Black Knights.

I still have concerns, but am somewhat reassured by Bill Foley’s public comments on the deal. His ambitions seem realistic and he does appear to have huge wealth behind him.

[Hibeesdaft16]

So attend and ask questions, express your dissatisfaction.

Yeah because that usually works at an agm right enough. :rolleyes:

[007]

Getting pretty concerned about the “investment” the more I look at the numbers posted out with the AGM notice. Done some back of a fag packet calcs to present how the share % will change if we vote the boards proposal through.

Ultimately I think there are many benefits to be part of a “football group” but with IG and BK already proving consistently they can’t run a FOOTBALL club despite being hugely successfully on the commercial front I have little faith in their ability to perform the due diligence required to give me confidence that this direction is worth fan ownership dropping form 33% (more than enough to stop any kind of future malice) to under 15% (leaving us without a voice should the assortment of Americans get bored in this project).

FWIW the Gordons have shown that they care about the club but other than cash they’ve no real skin in the game of this soon to be 150 year old club - I just wonder what we’re willing to forego for the chance of a sniff of success / loans from “big English clubs”.

If anyone’s of the same mind - hit me up with a DM, be good to get a call/pint and discuss the merits of the proposal. Not a vote I’ll be taking lightly despite it being as good as through imo

You say other than cash they've no skin in the game. I'd say the cash spent initially plus the debt that's about to be converted to equity is quite a lot of skin in the game. What previous owners have had as much skin in the game?

[Hibeesdaft16]

You say other than cash they've no skin in the game. I'd say the cash spent initially plus the debt that's about to be converted to equity is quite a lot of skin in the game. What previous owners have had as much skin in the game?

Farmer wasn't looking to make money from the club when he sold us, pretty sure under him and loans he gave the club and then wrote off a lot of built the whole stadium and training ground.

Any investments the Gordons have put in they will look to get back and it increases the value of the club of which they paid for. They aren't putting in their own investment without getting it back and their mistakes on the playing side of things won't hit them in the pocket, ever.

[007]

Reading through the last few pages has been interesting.

Some guys on here seem to have some understanding what is going on but most feel there is a lack of clarity and transparency. Maybe the AGM will iron out some of the details, but at the end of the day minor shareholders like me and supporters like out there can't do anything about it. Seems to me the deal is done.

Ian Gordon and Kensell have driven this deal with Foley. Thankfully and finally there is a growing consensus on hibs.net and other Hibs supporters I know that anything that Ian Gordon and Kensell have been involved in cannot be trusted. I'm old enough to remember Duff & Gray. Guys who meant well , but didn't have a clue which led the club to the brink of oblivion.

I've had serious doubts about these two for some time. Sadly I think we are too far into this deal with Foley to back out.

What is untrustworthy about Ian Gordon (the Gordons) converting the debt to equity?

[007]

Farmer wasn't looking to make money from the club when he sold us, pretty sure under him and loans he gave the club and then wrote off a lot of built the whole stadium and training ground.

Any investments the Gordons have put in they will look to get back and it increases the value of the club of which they paid for. They aren't putting in their own investment without getting it back and their mistakes on the playing side of things won't hit them in the pocket, ever.

How much of his money did he write off?

[matty_f]

Farmer wasn't looking to make money from the club when he sold us, pretty sure under him and loans he gave the club and then wrote off a lot of built the whole stadium and training ground.

Any investments the Gordons have put in they will look to get back and it increases the value of the club of which they paid for. They aren't putting in their own investment without getting it back and their mistakes on the playing side of things won't hit them in the pocket, ever.

What specifically are you thinking is going to happen that we need to worry about?

[Pretty Boy]

What specifically are you thinking is going to happen that we need to worry about?

As I said above my concern is the future funding model.

A chunk of Foley's financing of Bournemouth was through loans that were settled through debt for equity, that's not an option at Hibs. I think the consensus, and indeed Foley's own words, is that we want to be consistently 3rd. Conservatively I think that takes £8-10M of ongoing investment per season. Some of that will be generate organically if we do improve our cup and European runs but some will have to come from other funding. If that is going to be loans from Foley or indeed the Gordons then how do Hibs service a debt that could grow, again as an example, by £5M a season? Even as a soft loan that's £25M in 5 years. Are we hoping there is a debt write off for nothing? That our on field performance improves so much that we can easily service such debt through football income? Or the rules change and debt for equity becomes an option for the Foley group?

It seems there is an element of 'we'll owe it to ourselves' at play. There is every chance it will be fine but it's something that needs properly clarified at the AGM so we are going in with our eyes wide open. I think a lot of people (not you) are thinking of this as some act of footballing philanthropy and hoping, maybe even expecting, that we are getting a whole load of cash for nothing. I think that's highly unlikely so the nature of future investment has to be made clear.

[Stairway 2 7]

.

Any investments the Gordons have put in they will look to get back and it increases the value of the club of which they paid for. They aren't putting in their own investment without getting it back and their mistakes on the playing side of things won't hit them in the pocket, ever.

If you were the Gordon's accountants and you advised them to right off 6 million in debt to yourselves for shares, just so they could have more value from those shares in the future then you'd get sacked. Especially as their share holdings hasn't increased that much due to the addition of black Knight

[El Gubbz]

Found the 2023 financial statements on the clubs website

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/Final-Signed-Accounts-30.06.2323.pdf

[Hibs4185]

Found the 2023 financial statements on the clubs website

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/Final-Signed-Accounts-30.06.2323.pdf

Well found!

[Forza Fred]

As with any thread, there are a few interlopers on here.

Not very clever ones though…..they tend to use exactly the same figures, syntax and wording as they do on their home site………

[Chorley Hibee]

Found the 2023 financial statements on the clubs website

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/Final-Signed-Accounts-30.06.2323.pdf

As bad as I thought.

A 3.9m loss for the year, and that's with 3.2m in player trading profit.

Nice to see that additional revenue generated from hospitality going to good use.

[TrinityHFC]

As bad as I thought.

A 3.9m loss for the year, and that's with 3.2m in player trading profit.

Nice to see that additional revenue generated from hospitality going to good use.

There isn't an immediate payback for these capital investments unfortunately. They go on to say that they are on track for record breaking revenue for the current year and the wage ratio is well down.

We can't ask for people like the Gordons to come and invest in us and then criticise losses and debt - they can't just pay for things out their own pocket. They are doing the next best thing by swapping out now for equity.

[Smartie]

As bad as I thought.

A 3.9m loss for the year, and that's with 3.2m in player trading profit.

Nice to see that additional revenue generated from hospitality going to good use.

I'll wait for some of our resident experts to comment, however...

Do they not make for pretty grim reading?

Maybe the Gordons are happy propping up losses and it's all part of their plan?

It reads to me like a bit of "speculate to accumulate" to get 3rd has been going on, all during a "cost of living crisis" when businesses everywhere have been seeing their costs rocket.

As it stands, the Foley money is going to come in and cover for a few years of utter ineptitude whilst we wait for Porteous magic beans to turn into some sort of beanstalk from Watford's reserve team...

[TrinityHFC]

I'll wait for some of our resident experts to comment, however...

Do they not make for pretty grim reading?

Maybe the Gordons are happy propping up losses and it's all part of their plan?

It reads to me like a bit of "speculate to accumulate" to get 3rd has been going on, all during a "cost of living crisis" when businesses everywhere have been seeing their costs rocket.

As it stands, the Foley money is going to come in and cover for a few years of utter ineptitude whilst we wait for Porteous magic beans to turn into some sort of beanstalk from Watford's reserve team...

The equity swap will cover - then the BK money would be coming into the club on top of that - not debt by the looks of things initially, but in cash paying for the new shares.

It is speculating and a lot of that capital expenditure doesn't have straight pay back - the pitch, floodlights etc. Some will have long term income befits like the hospitality.

Anyway, if the deals all go through we will be in a pretty decent position given we will have spent on all that stuff already. We are obviously confident enough to be talking about further spend on the North stand and the training centre.

[GloryGlory]

As bad as I thought.

A 3.9m loss for the year, and that's with 3.2m in player trading profit.

Nice to see that additional revenue generated from hospitality going to good use.

This was a year when we got knocked out both cups early. No European football either. Shows how important these things are.

[CropleyWasGod]

Found the 2023 financial statements on the clubs website

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/Final-Signed-Accounts-30.06.2323.pdf

I don't know where you got these, but they're not on the club's website.

They are in a form that's not for public consumption, and contain some information that is for the Club's use only.

Someone has ****ed up here, or worse. I think you (or the admins) might want to take these down for now, until the published accounts themselves are out.

[TrinityHFC]

I don't know where you got these, but they're not on the club's website.

They are in a form that's not for public consumption, and contain some information that is for the Club's use only.

Someone has ****ed up here, or worse. I think you (or the admins) might want to take these down for now, until the published accounts themselves are out.

The accounts are on the club website.

Policies - Hibernian FC (https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/our-club/policies)

[CropleyWasGod]

The accounts are on the club website.

Policies - Hibernian FC (https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/our-club/policies)

Gotcha, so they are.

It's still a ****-up, though. They're not in the form for public consumption. Someone has put TMI up there.

[Chipper1875]

I don't know where you got these, but they're not on the club's website.

They are in a form that's not for public consumption, and contain some information that is for the Club's use only.

Someone has ****ed up here, or worse. I think you (or the admins) might want to take these down for now, until the published accounts themselves are out.

What’s the issue ? I’m a shareholder and haven’t received mine . Should we receive them before they get posted on club website. That’s where they are

[Stuart93]

Gotcha, so they are.

It's still a ****-up, though. They're not in the form for public consumption. Someone has put TMI up there.

Imagine my shock at someone else within the club ****ing up, yet again

[Ringothedog]

What’s the issue ? I’m a shareholder and haven’t received mine . Should we receive them before they get posted on club website. That’s where they are

They don’t get posted now. If you want to see the accounts you will do it via a link to them. If I remember correctly there is also the option to ask for them to be posted

[TrinityHFC]

Gotcha, so they are.

It's still a ****-up, though. They're not in the form for public consumption. Someone has put TMI up there.

See what you mean - the management info has been left on the end.

[overdrive]

What’s the issue ? I’m a shareholder and haven’t received mine . Should we receive them before they get posted on club website. That’s where they are

It'll be the management accounts that's been appended at the end

[JimBHibees]

As bad as I thought.

A 3.9m loss for the year, and that's with 3.2m in player trading profit.

Nice to see that additional revenue generated from hospitality going to good use.

What dates does this cover?

[overdrive]

What dates does this cover?

Year up to 30 June 2023

[JimBHibees]

gotcha, so they are.

It's still a ****-up, though. They're not in the form for public consumption. Someone has put tmi up there.

tmi?

[JimBHibees]

Year up to 30 June 2023

Thanks so year up to summer last year will include Nisbet and Porto transfers though assume in Nisbets case likely payments run into this financial year.

[Pretty Boy]

tmi?

Too much information.

[Lago]

Yeah because that usually works at an agm right enough. :rolleyes:
And your proposal, sit on your backside with a keyboard to moan, moan, moan, way to go :confused:

[Tyler Durden]

There isn't an immediate payback for these capital investments unfortunately. They go on to say that they are on track for record breaking revenue for the current year and the wage ratio is well down.

We can't ask for people like the Gordons to come and invest in us and then criticise losses and debt - they can't just pay for things out their own pocket. They are doing the next best thing by swapping out now for equity.

I don't think that is accurate. The notes indicate that the 81% is a record high and the club plans to restore it to something more in line with historical averages, over time. By increasing the Turnover and player trading.

You wouldn't imagine we're in a better position now 6/7 months on from that reporting period.

[overdrive]

Some interesting stuff in the management information section that appears to have been wrongly included (well interesting to me as someone who is/was a management accountant).

How comes our rates bill has nearly trebled? Was there some sort of rates relief during covid or something?

£900k in catering costs - up from £388k - seems a lot

Loan player costs. I assume this is a combination of the contribution to the clubs loaning us players for their wages and any associated fees. Shame the publication of this seems a mistake as it would be interesting to see what that figure is next year.

[Tyler Durden]

I'll wait for some of our resident experts to comment, however...

Do they not make for pretty grim reading?

Maybe the Gordons are happy propping up losses and it's all part of their plan?

It reads to me like a bit of "speculate to accumulate" to get 3rd has been going on, all during a "cost of living crisis" when businesses everywhere have been seeing their costs rocket.

As it stands, the Foley money is going to come in and cover for a few years of utter ineptitude whilst we wait for Porteous magic beans to turn into some sort of beanstalk from Watford's reserve team...

It's not great but I suppose we knew that investments in the stadium would need paid for. If the suggestion is that the c£5m debt to the Gordons is wiped out by the Foley investment then great, good timing.

We do have a record now over last 5 years of making profits on player trading. The challenge is to continue that along side growing the commercial revenues. Getting the wage ratio down in the next few years won't be easy though, if we want to challenge for 3rd.

[Tyler Durden]

Some interesting stuff in the management information section that appears to have been wrongly included (well interesting to me as someone who is/was a management accountant).

How comes our rates bill has nearly trebled? Was there some sort of rates relief during covid or something?

£900k in catering costs - up from £388k - seems a lot

Loan player costs. I assume this is a combination of the contribution to the clubs loaning us players for their wages and any associated fees. Shame the publication of this seems a mistake as it would be interesting to see what that figure is next year.

First parts are covered in the notes. Rate relief ended. Catering covers have doubled - it's explained.

[overdrive]

First parts are covered in the notes. Rate relief ended. Catering covers have doubled - it's explained.

Serves me right for just skimming it. Cheers.

Also, for catering, I somehow totally forgot we are in the business of selling hospitality packages (and for some reason thought we had that outsourced) so initially thought 'catering' meant feeding the players at HTC, pre-match meals, etc. and thought "jeezo, that's a lot of food we are giving them" :greengrin

[TrinityHFC]

I don't think that is accurate. The notes indicate that the 81% is a record high and the club plans to restore it to something more in line with historical averages, over time. By increasing the Turnover and player trading.

You wouldn't imagine we're in a better position now 6/7 months on from that reporting period.

They say it in the narrative - albeit their wording seems messed up:

'Based on that, the Club expects to have record breaking revenue for the year ending 30 June 2024. For the period to 31 December 2023, the Club has produced positive earnings before interest and amortisation, inclusive of gains from player trading, and maintained a staff to turnover of 65%.'

[AugustaHibs]

Ben Kensell been given a 70k pay increase and now earning 370k P/A?

[nonshinyfinish]

If the suggestion is that the c£5m debt to the Gordons is wiped out by the Foley investment then great, good timing.

I don't think that's right – the text in the OP describes creating new shares of nominal value £3.1m (i.e. 155m shares) and then doing two separate things with those new shares:

- Bydand (the Gordons) receive new shares by converting their £5.75m loan into shares
- Turquoise Bidco (Black Knights) receive 70.2m new shares

That description, combined with Foley saying that no money was going out of the club, suggests that the debt to the Gordons is being wiped out by them choosing to convert it to equity and the Foley investment is separate.

[Scottie]

Ben Kensell been given a 70k pay increase and now earning 370k P/A?
Worth every penny, quite unbelievable really :faf:

[Tyler Durden]

I don't think that's right – the text in the OP describes creating new shares of nominal value £3.1m (i.e. 155m shares) and then doing two separate things with those new shares:

- Bydand (the Gordons) receive new shares by converting their £5.75m loan into shares
- Turquoise Bidco (Black Knights) receive 70.2m new shares

That description, combined with Foley saying that no money was going out of the club, suggests that the debt to the Gordons is being wiped out by them choosing to convert it to equity and the Foley investment is separate.

:aok: Thanks

[Tyler Durden]

They say it in the narrative - albeit their wording seems messed up:

'Based on that, the Club expects to have record breaking revenue for the year ending 30 June 2024. For the period to 31 December 2023, the Club has produced positive earnings before interest and amortisation, inclusive of gains from player trading, and maintained a staff to turnover of 65%.'

Missed that. Ok well fair play if that can be maintained.

[SQHib]

Ben Kensell been given a 70k pay increase and now earning 370k P/A?

Think that figure is renumeration for all directors

the chief exec figure shown is a paltry 326k ( up from 302k) :eek:

[Chipper1875]

First parts are covered in the notes. Rate relief ended. Catering covers have doubled - it's explained.

Which note should l be reading? Sorry can’t see it for looking. Found it it’s o. The strategic report

[Chipper1875]

They say it in the narrative - albeit their wording seems messed up:

'Based on that, the Club expects to have record breaking revenue for the year ending 30 June 2024. For the period to 31 December 2023, the Club has produced positive earnings before interest and amortisation, inclusive of gains from player trading, and maintained a staff to turnover of 65%.'

Where can l see that ? If the accounts were physically signed off on 17 October? How did they include info as at 31 December?

[Sergio sledge]

Where can l see that ? If the accounts were physically signed off on 17 October? How did they include info as at 31 December?

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/AGM-2024.pdf

It's in the document linked above. Certainly produces a more positive picture for the current financial year.

[Slim Shady]

Doesnt make good reading.

Staff Welfare up £137K
Motor Running Expenses up £86K
Catering up up £515K
Professional Subscriptions up 137K
Bad debts up £90k
Sundry up £32K
Ben K up £70K

The above is an increase of over £1M

Probably more but thats just glancing over. Whos responsilble to keeping the bills down here?

[Slim Shady]

Some interesting stuff in the management information section that appears to have been wrongly included (well interesting to me as someone who is/was a management accountant).

How comes our rates bill has nearly trebled? Was there some sort of rates relief during covid or something?

£900k in catering costs - up from £388k - seems a lot

Loan player costs. I assume this is a combination of the contribution to the clubs loaning us players for their wages and any associated fees. Shame the publication of this seems a mistake as it would be interesting to see what that figure is next year.

As someone who has better knowledge on me on this subject - would you not see these accounts as a concern.
The expenditure increase, and the £3.6M loss despite turnover increase?

[TrinityHFC]

Doesnt make good reading.

Staff Welfare up £137K
Motor Running Expenses up £86K
Catering up up £515K
Professional Subscriptions up 137K
Bad debts up £90k
Sundry up £32K
Ben K up £70K

The above is an increase of over £1M

Probably more but thats just glancing over. Whos responsilble to keeping the bills down here?

How do you know those are figures that shouldn’t have gone up? Also don’t think the BK increase is accurate.

[Centre Hawf]

Doesnt make good reading.

Staff Welfare up £137K
Motor Running Expenses up £86K
Catering up up £515K
Professional Subscriptions up 137K
Bad debts up £90k
Sundry up £32K
Ben K up £70K

The above is an increase of over £1M

Probably more but thats just glancing over. Whos responsilble to keeping the bills down here?

Without obviously knowing all the little details I think the likes of Catering is up probably due to the change in our hospitality.

[hibsforeurope]

Doesnt make good reading.

Staff Welfare up £137K
Motor Running Expenses up £86K
Catering up up £515K
Professional Subscriptions up 137K
Bad debts up £90k
Sundry up £32K
Ben K up £70K

The above is an increase of over £1M

Probably more but thats just glancing over. Whos responsilble to keeping the bills down here?

The Government? Costs of everything is rising, even if things don't change the cost will likely go up. These costs are likely Hibs just keeping things at their current levels.

[Pretty Boy]

Without obviously knowing all the little details I think the likes of Catering is up probably due to the change in our hospitality.

Did we not do a deal fairly recently to contract hospitality out to a 3rd party for a fixed period in return for a guaranteed income?

Maybe I've made that up or misunderstood the deal but it could suggest the figures in the accounts covering a previous financial year are out of date moving forward.

[Golden Bear]

The postie must have got lost, I've not received a thing yet.

☹️

[Chorley Hibee]

Did we not do a deal fairly recently to contract hospitality out to a 3rd party for a fixed period in return for a guaranteed income?

Maybe I've made that up or misunderstood the deal but it could suggest the figures in the accounts covering a previous financial year are out of date moving forward.

Yes, was meant to have brought in circa 10m over a nine year contract.

https://www.thestadiumbusiness.com/2022/07/12/hibernian-strikes-nine-year-elior-catering-deal/

[Slim Shady]

The Government? Costs of everything is rising, even if things don't change the cost will likely go up. These costs are likely Hibs just keeping things at their current levels.

Not as those levels of increase. Can’t even blame The Tory’s or Sturgeon on this.

Price increase mean businesses usual tighten their expenditure. Not chuck an £1m about like loose change.

[Smartie]

Quite a few of the expenses that have gone up have a fairly adequate explanation elsewhere in the document.

I also know from running my own business (and having a bit of insight into what's happening elsewhere in my sector, albeit one that is very different to the one Hibs operate in) that last year and into this year has been a very challenging business environment due to inflation, everything going up in price and everyone trying to stay on top of costs to keep necks above water.

One of the things you can do to mitigate that is to put prices up, and keep the cycle of everything getting more expensive going. What were the prices of season tickets relative to the previous year? How does that relate to how much a tub of Lurpak has gone up over the same period? Or the average wage for an employee? Or to heat enough water for someone to have a shower?

So whilst I think that Hibs need to take some responsibility for some profligacy in the transfer market, there are costs that have been introduced that should see a greater increase in revenue, and there are also plenty of costs that are very difficult to do anything about in the current environment.

And does anyone really want to pay 50% more for their season ticket to watch this team over what they paid to watch the team 2 seasons ago?

[SickBoy32]

Stay classy there.

Cost of living crisis, many folk struggling

But our CEO receives a boost to his pay packet at the same time the charitable donations from the club take a hit? Who is the one lacking class?

[JKeatings]

Looking forward immensely to the summer window

Reckon it will be a record breaking window in terms of fees

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

If your on about a record number of loan players I’ll agree, I’ve not got a good feeling about this atol tbh.

[O'Rourke3]

I never got a letter today, i suspect it’ll come tomorrow.I'm still waiting and have never moved house since becoming a shareholder.

Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk

[Callum_62]

If your on about a record number of loan players I’ll agree, I’ve not got a good feeling about this atol tbh.The new investor has already said multiple millions will be available for transfers

That in its own would be a record breaking window

I know we are Hibs fans and it's incredibly difficult to be much else but pessimistic but I wish folk would allow themselves some days without Hibs induced worry [emoji1787]

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Chipper1875]

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/AGM-2024.pdf

It's in the document linked above. Certainly produces a more positive picture for the current financial year.

Thanks for that

[JKeatings]

Looking forward immensely to the summer window

Reckon it will be a record breaking window in terms of fees

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

If your on about a record number of loan players I’ll agree, I’ve not got a good feeling about this atol tbh.

[LustForLeith]

Supposed benefits to the club

Given how our leadership have chronically weakened us since their arrival, there is no guarantee whatsoever this deal with Foley is a good one for Hibernian

I’ve been thinking the same

Foley could invest £8 billion but it’ll be wasted on the current set up, culture and processes in place

[Unseen work]

Just read the daily records article which is obviously covering.

I’ve probably missed it, but is there an idiot proof guide to what is actually going on for my sake?🤣

[Paul1642]

Ben Kensell been given a 70k pay increase and now earning 370k P/A?

Sounds very high on the face of it but when broken down it’s 7.1k a week which is probably around the same as some of our higher earning players.

Laziness on my part not to look for the info but does anyone have the figures for other non old firm CEO wages, especially Hearts and Aberdeen. I would guess they are in the same ball park and that’s simply the going rate for a top 6 (well at least meant to be top 6) SPFl CEO.

[nonshinyfinish]

Sounds very high on the face of it but when broken down it’s 7.1k a week which is probably around the same as some of our higher earning players.

Laziness on my part not to look for the info but does anyone have the figures for other non old firm CEO wages, especially Hearts and Aberdeen. I would guess they are in the same ball park and that’s simply the going rate for a top 6 (well at least meant to be top 6) SPFl CEO.

The £370k figure seems to be a result of misinterpretation though:


Think that figure is renumeration for all directors

the chief exec figure shown is a paltry 326k ( up from 302k) :eek:

[Willis1875]

Just read the daily records article which is obviously covering.

I’ve probably missed it, but is there an idiot proof guide to what is actually going on for my sake?🤣

Think this posted by Sergio cuts out all the jargon and gives a basic description of what’s gone on etc
https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/AGM-2024.pdf

[Paul1642]

The £370k figure seems to be a result of misinterpretation though:

In which case £6.2k per week up from £5.8k.

Whist there’s much more emotional investment from the fans Hibs are still a business and CEOs tend to be the top earner within a business. No reason why we would be paying him less thank half the playing squad.

[nonshinyfinish]

In which case £6.2k per week up from £5.8k.

Whist there’s much more emotional investment from the fans Hibs are still a business and CEOs tend to be the top earner within a business. No reason why we would be paying him less thank half the playing squad.

Yeah, I realise it doesn't really affect your point, but the '£70k pay rise' seems to be well on the way to becoming a .net fact so it's worth correcting.

[Hibs90]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SO307675

What's this then? Player accommodation I presume?

[Unseen work]

Think this posted by Sergio cuts out all the jargon and gives a basic description of what’s gone on etc
https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/AGM-2024.pdf

Cheers.

I appreciate the increased wage% look concerning however I guess as a club trying to grow and improve the only way to do that is to recruit better players who inevitably cost more.

The issue is are we spending the money on the correct players and then are we getting the most out of them. Boyle, Vente, Youan and ALF for example are all more than good enough to get us top 6 absolute minimum - but we’re not using them.

Levitt is another who is a good player that’s not being utilised correctly.

[Chipper1875]

In which case £6.2k per week up from £5.8k.

Whist there’s much more emotional investment from the fans Hibs are still a business and CEOs tend to be the top earner within a business. No reason why we would be paying him less thank half the playing squad.

For a company the size of hibs this is excessive pay.

[Paul1642]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SO307675

What's this then? Player accommodation I presume?

Guess so. I can’t really remember the details but a former player, possibly Bojang, complaining about the club accommodation seems to ring a bell.

[Ronniekirk]

And we have just posted a huge loss of well over three million and player wages are a big factor Hard to take when watching the Forfar and St Mirren game

[Rumble de Thump]

Sounds like we're still due millions from players we sold quite a while ago so not too bad.

[CropleyWasGod]

Sounds like we're still due millions from players we sold quite a while ago so not too bad.

The income from their sale will have been included in the accounts figures, whether received or not.

The only fees excluded would be add-ons... number of appearances, caps etc..... which will be included in turnover when they are triggered.

[CentreLine]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SO307675

What's this then? Player accommodation I presume?

Amongst others, seems to be owned by our chairman and also a certain Mr Robb. I’m not quite sure why the club wouldn’t keep this in-house. Interesting

[matty_f]

Sounds like we're still due millions from players we sold quite a while ago so not too bad.

Yeah always good to keep in mind that the accounts are a snapshot of a particular period in time and all the figures have context around them that should be considered before any **** is lost.

[Tyler Durden]

Find it quite strange that it's referenced that our 8th place finish was the club's lowest since 2013/14. We just going to ignore 3 years in the Championship I take it?!

[Chipper1875]

Amongst others, seems to be owned by our chairman and also a certain Mr Robb. I’m not quite sure why the club wouldn’t keep this in-house. Interesting

Also, kathrin Hamilton who is on hibs board and works with Leslie Robb - if he’s still with Baillie Gifford

[Chipper1875]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SO307675

What's this then? Player accommodation I presume?

Does this mean hibs own a property company?

[Stairway 2 7]

They say it in the narrative - albeit their wording seems messed up:

'Based on that, the Club expects to have record breaking revenue for the year ending 30 June 2024. For the period to 31 December 2023, the Club has produced positive earnings before interest and amortisation, inclusive of gains from player trading, and maintained a staff to turnover of 65%.'

Much more encouraging

[CropleyWasGod]

Does this mean hibs own a property company?

We don't own it. We do have some common people, though.

From the scant information on there, it looks as if this LLP owns properties in Hawkhill and has finance for them from Hampden & Co, a bank in town. There seem to be 9 loans.

As has been said, sounds like the players' flats. Not sure who owned them before.

Digging further, the charges for the loans were created in June and August 2023. If the Club owned them, they will have been transferred out after the accounts currently being discussed.

[PolmontHibby]

Going to take a good look at statements...but an operating loss of £6.9m million on turnover of £12.4m is not good reading at all.
Just as well we had some decent players to flog to reduce loss to £3.9m.
And negative cashflow of almost £4m on operations.

Cannot say it is a positive picture at all at first look.

[Sergio sledge]

Sounds very high on the face of it but when broken down it’s 7.1k a week which is probably around the same as some of our higher earning players.

Laziness on my part not to look for the info but does anyone have the figures for other non old firm CEO wages, especially Hearts and Aberdeen. I would guess they are in the same ball park and that’s simply the going rate for a top 6 (well at least meant to be top 6) SPFl CEO.

In their last accounts Hearts paid their directors £284k, of which £175K went to the highest paid director (presumably McKinley).

In their last accounts Aberdeen paid their directors £315k, of which £140K went to the highest paid director (presumably Burrows).

Certainly seems like we are paying a high amount for one single director whereas Aberdeen and Hearts pay more to other directors and less to their CEO (or highest paid director).

[Chipper1875]

We don't own it. We do have some common people, though.

From the scant information on there, it looks as if this LLP owns properties in Hawkhill and has finance for them from Hampden & Co, a bank in town. There seem to be 9 loans.

As has been said, sounds like the players' flats. Not sure who owned them before.

Digging further, the charges for the loans were created in June and August 2023. If the Club owned them, they will have been transferred out after the accounts currently being discussed.
Thanks for that. I thought there maybe would have been a requirement to note “affiliated entities “ in accounts . Or perhaps from corporate governance angle. Director’s benefiting from being on hibs board

[gbhibby]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SO307675

What's this then? Player accommodation I presume?
Probably set up to replace HFC holdings which existed under STF.

[CropleyWasGod]

Thanks for that. I thought there maybe would have been a requirement to note “affiliated entities “ in accounts . Or perhaps from corporate governance angle. Director’s benefiting from being on hibs board

If we did own the properties, and sold them to the LLP, it would have happened in the summer of 2023. Given the common control, I would expect to see a note to our accounts next year, detailing that.

If we did sell them, that would be another boost to our income.

[Chipper1875]

If we did own the properties, and sold them to the LLP, it would have happened in the summer of 2023. Given the common control, I would expect to see a note to our accounts next year, detailing that.

If we did sell them, that would be another boost to our income.

True but we wouldn’t get the rental income and increase in property value. If it’s for players accommodation, we are now paying rent to this company.

[overdrive]

True but we wouldn’t get the rental income and increase in property value. If it’s for players accommodation, we are now paying rent to this company.

Were we renting them out to the players? If we were, surely the players would just pay the rent to the LLP now.

You could also view it as transferring the risk of ownership to this new LLP. If we did own these properties before, we would have been responsible for maintaining them, keeping them in good working order, dealing with building issues that arise (e.g. the cladding scandal), fixing damage caused by players with pyromaniac tendencies, etc. If we don't own them now and are just leasing them from the LLP (if indeed we are and we aren't just introducing players to the new LLP as potential landlord), all of that is on the LLP.

One of our directors is a property developer and it looks like one of his companies is involved in the LLP. Might be a case of using their expertise. If we were renting them out, there's a whole host of regulations involved. My mate runs a short-term letting company and it has all been a bit of a headache for him. Maybe Hibs want to focus on their core business rather than acting as a landlord.

[Chipper1875]

Were we renting them out to the players? If we were, surely the players would just pay the rent to the LLP now.

You could also view it as transferring the risk of ownership to this new LLP. If we did own these properties before, we would have been responsible for maintaining them, keeping them in good working order, dealing with building issues that arise (e.g. the cladding scandal), fixing damage caused by players with pyromaniac tendencies, etc. If we don't own them now and are just leasing them from the LLP (if indeed we are and we aren't just introducing players to the new LLP as potential landlord), all of that is on the LLP.

One of our directors is a property developer and it looks like one of his companies is involved in the LLP. Might be a case of using their expertise. If we were renting them out, there's a whole host of regulations involved. My mate runs a short-term letting company and it has all been a bit of a headache for him. Maybe Hibs want to focus on their core business rather than acting as a landlord.
We pay for players rent . That includes some of the women’s team. Part of players contacts.

[Smartie]

One other thing I'd say about the property LLP thing - the names associated with it aren't names I'd associate with having any sort of malign intent towards Hibs whatsoever, totally the opposite.

Although I'm sure our chums over at Kickback will be having bit of fun with the very existence of an entity called "Bydand-Hibernian Flats LLC".

[Chipper1875]

One other thing I'd say about the property LLP thing - the names associated with it aren't names I'd associate with having any sort of malign intent towards Hibs whatsoever, totally the opposite.

Although I'm sure our chums over at Kickback will be having bit of fun with the very existence of an entity called "Bydand-Hibernian Flats LLC".

Yes some well known hibs fans and successful business men

[DavieRoy]

So basically some of our directors and Edinburgh business people own a property company with Hibernian as the client. That company that independent of Hibernian makes money from the club, surely a conflict of interest? Leslie Robb on the board of the company so he is will be backing the Gordon’s at the AGM.

[Brightside]

Hibs have always bought flats to use for players and staff. Been going on for at least 40 years that I know.

[Chipper1875]

Hibs have always bought flats to use for players and staff. Been going on for at least 40 years that I know.

This hasn’t been reflected in the accounts. Players l have known staid in flats not owned by the club but club paid the rent .

[overdrive]

We pay for players rent . That includes some of the women’s team. Part of players contacts.

But you said we'd lose rental income and would now be paying rent. I suspected we paid for it for players. We wouldn't be losing any rental income for it if the players weren't paying us rent for it unless we rented them out in the close season which seems to not be worth it for what a month and a half a year?

I think the club is probably taking the view that managing property isn't worth the hassle doing in-house.

[Chipper1875]

But you said we'd lose rental income and would now be paying rent. I suspected we paid for it for players. We wouldn't be losing any rental income for it if the players weren't paying us rent for it unless we rented them out in the close season which seems to not be worth it for what a month and a half a year?

I think the club is probably taking the view that managing property isn't worth the hassle doing in-house.
All good and fair points

[Torto7]

I don't see anything to worry about with the accounts. It's broadly in line with what Ron Gordon said he'd do when taking over.

There's also the distinct whiff of **** on this thread mixed in with the usual drama queens.

[Hibs4185]

I was asked to provide accommodation for some Hibs ladies, to be paid for by a benefactor.

They def own a lot of property and rent other property when needed.

[Smartie]

I don't see anything to worry about with the accounts. It's broadly in line with what Ron Gordon said he'd do when taking over.

There's also the distinct whiff of **** on this thread mixed in with the usual drama queens.

I wouldn't say there's nothing to be worried about and I do expect there to be some robust questioning at the AGM.

What you've said about Ron Gordon doing what he said he'd do when taking over is fair enough in some ways - there has been some investment and money paid up front for stuff (hospitality, screens etc) that should see a financial benefit in years to come with an early painful hit. We also shouldn't really deny that the post-covid, recent high inflation economy is a challenging one. I'd be surprised if other clubs of similar see to our own don't end up having challenges of their own over this timeframe.

The club's failings are the same as they were yesterday, before these figures came out - in the footballing department - and that's what they really need to be taken to task on.

[Billy Whizz]

Hibs have always bought flats to use for players and staff. Been going on for at least 40 years that I know.

We used to have flats somewhere up near Causewayside

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't see anything to worry about with the accounts. It's broadly in line with what Ron Gordon said he'd do when taking over.

There's also the distinct whiff of **** on this thread mixed in with the usual drama queens.

Some are writing on this thread in the same tone as they are on kickback. Scrutiny is wise and correct but reports of our death have been greatly exaggerated, especially as we should be just about debt free and with owners with a wealth of 11 billion. Wages ratio going down to 65% at year end says a large rise in turnover to me

[Billy Whizz]

In which case £6.2k per week up from £5.8k.

Whist there’s much more emotional investment from the fans Hibs are still a business and CEOs tend to be the top earner within a business. No reason why we would be paying him less thank half the playing squad.

This is what Hearts and Aberdeen pay their directors
Miles below what Hibs do
1st one is Aberdeen, 2nd one is Hearts

[CentreLine]

Fully expecting a big reveal at the AGM where the future plans for the club are laid out and all of the anomalies highlighted in this thread disappear with a wave of a PowerPoint wand. We will all go home with a fuzzy feeling of optimism and wait to see the developments unfold.

Well I hope so at least

[Glory Lurker]

Do we know the club ever owned the flats owned by Hibernian Property? It's possible that they are nothing to do with the club company, even if there's common personnel and name. Genuinely don't think we know enough about it to start trying to weave it into today's figures.

[CropleyWasGod]

Do we know the club ever owned the flats owned by Hibernian Property? It's possible that they are nothing to do with the club company, even if there's common personnel and name. Genuinely don't think we know enough about it to start trying to weave it into today's figures.

I'm not sure.

However, if we did own them, I reckon that the current accounts would probably have referred to them being sold after the year-end. If I'm right about the 9 flats, that's £2-3m of income, with no mortgage.

[WhileTheChief..]

Fully expecting a big reveal at the AGM where the future plans for the club are laid out and all of the anomalies highlighted in this thread disappear with a wave of a PowerPoint wand. We will all go home with a fuzzy feeling of optimism and wait to see the developments unfold.

Well I hope so at least

:top marks

Remember when RG did a couple of vids outlining their 5 year plan, then following up with an update a couple of years later?

It would be good to see something similar from IG. Saying nothing just leaves room for speculation and rumour.

[Not So Young]

Fully expecting a big reveal at the AGM where the future plans for the club are laid out and all of the anomalies highlighted in this thread disappear with a wave of a PowerPoint wand. We will all go home with a fuzzy feeling of optimism and wait to see the developments unfold.

Well I hope so at least


We are only seeing half the picture and interpreting it to suit our view. I also believe the AGM will be the place where I expect the board will outline their plan in a lot more detail. We will then be able to measure them against it


I

[Glory Lurker]

We are only seeing half the picture and interpreting it to suit our view. I also believe the AGM will be the place where I expect the board will outline their plan in a lot more detail. We will then be able to measure them against it

Well said.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

So Hearts turnover is £20M, Aberdeens is maybe £15M and ours is £12M.
Now obviously I'm a financial dunce but we're miles off it on and off the park?

[Glory Lurker]

So Hearts turnover is £20M, Aberdeens is maybe £15M and ours is £12M.
Now obviously I'm a financial dunce but we're miles off it on and off the park?

I'm genuinely not trying to be a smart guy - do you have links to their accounts?

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm genuinely not trying to be a smart guy - do you have links to their accounts?

You can find them on the Companies House website.

Search for each company, and then you get options to look at various stuff, including their accounts.

[Stuart93]

Fully expecting a big reveal at the AGM where the future plans for the club are laid out and all of the anomalies highlighted in this thread disappear with a wave of a PowerPoint wand. We will all go home with a fuzzy feeling of optimism and wait to see the developments unfold.

Well I hope so at least

Can’t wait for the club to sell us yet another pipe dream which falls on its arse more or less every time

We don’t need big huge massive plans, we just want to see a good team on the pitch.

Simplistic as **** I know but I feel we need to return to doing the simple things because almost everything coming out of the club recently is corporate/big business bull****

[neil7908]

So Hearts turnover is £20M, Aberdeens is maybe £15M and ours is £12M.
Now obviously I'm a financial dunce but we're miles off it on and off the park?

I think this underscores how far behind we are, and that even money from Foley is only helping to close the gap, rather than push us ahead.

We'll need to be A LOT smarter with how we spend our cash than we have been to realise the aim of consistently finishing 3rd.

[Billy Whizz]

I'm genuinely not trying to be a smart guy - do you have links to their accounts?
Hearts
https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/2f4tR6itk7FKYR1GxS9Ex5idqeJpiFsVzyaVfTmLikI/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3MRQH37GQ%2F20240206%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20240206T172415Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEPb%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F% 2F%2FwEaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJHMEUCIQCeLjo47%2B%2Fdc8qqlt im37k2mVhQiJRVt2b3jEZkRIFi7QIgGwz5OcHHOr5noWy4hyyR b19dv8M3IAXL2FI83LUn%2FJYqxAUIv%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F% 2F%2F%2F%2F%2FARAEGgw0NDkyMjkwMzI4MjIiDCX2ooE2TAf% 2FVyfGDCqYBbx%2BeFGmbpuXYeAFSeEld2nHXhZIgS0tByi0Oq JYACGsThh4j57MqSGqIvy6xAI6oWKFNw1DZ08XWJiDQu2%2B97 f9PW1YkzAAe%2BH2VA9c0mwrabM56Um%2BGxc98gL4Incf9Vmy HNvOcN3z1EEkpM%2FQA4UyRr7QG4M4M4ESmTt%2Bc1wECd2r0z q%2BJ4maJz8FQjDjR%2Bb3KfEK5paTDVlOrSb2wqRUclRXFsf% 2FZAq2Dd9npqtr414sHwgWnmUkmlgiIvx%2FP7mamW2kkghLP2 USVMrEVuWIFjfs60YoaytCReyit5vsZx4DeF5m7XspQzrRMhCe 6xhd9JsG%2FVqURoKJqsdiezbXY2YU2ajqDMNkW90vL%2FW7os nocEQ3yIy62GEANQJPKQBLjSSu39qmJHWc%2F2VPcz4vuOEIRR ZdeDNRR6wKMO2GTYnZ%2B2mJfjYeHOY7ayua6%2B8yDBeQH8fx dj2c4V7CIBXxHK9YCscLZb4iDeE2wUduvBW1lG8rwfJWAu3Lya bHqKy7atSugJU71N9rwfuPPODBbBqDunuSM0QjwB%2BDkpK2zl VXFo1DjYE6V7DQGX3shqpyL9fVBiR%2FYfebVL5o144hEpDyvF NUI9cqK5IptBPlD9QMbcMp9Z0qNBLRTj%2BWzsXKfxGfx6CF1i sRf0bUPcC2BuqZRsBBnkDTgYlsnIShatYr5DUNfW6WUSOFICz1 3AP2Fgpt4%2FIYCkn%2Fjdnfo%2BJR0iqB%2B6GPchsZGvhPb9 UyZP8Fh5EgeU82xfZsnhVr4owzZvcHOnLMGhkaX2VRNfJvyX58 DOqdYl%2F8SZFPN1AEG3vV7BXN3Q41Z08f2J2rBG6UsPFPWL74 kk8OZijEvhxjZtAKX39PTmtfIy2gXsRCI88Gx1SFD1ww1fiIrg Y6sQGu%2****sDXHGmMvcdW40SB3VokUJnxKwpDHxPIZN19kt1 O75PFre8EdozKkT3sOf7RPbUr7HgmmQML5P8bfC2AgQ%2FeNGk l1MT%2BU3oclJJpaUuNj8fNGaBKNi%2BApt5XkfeuJBRiXy09I 3pv%2Bu%2BXnYp52ubWHEIGZS9C9X82wrzlw5stY%2B%2FQnsH cXdNK%2BPH%2Bi%2BaZT%2Bb8mwvmxcTs3fEhZRD4lxDGgwFxV QDL7E4tfYnuV7s8%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22companies_house _document.pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=28f6813af25bf81b2e435dff6eaa30ca28c8a70d a92525ccb59590fc81aeee67

Aberdeen
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[Bridge hibs]

Hearts
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Aberdeen
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[CropleyWasGod]

Hearts
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Aberdeen
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Hearts:- https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC005863/filing-history

Aberdeen:- https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC005364/filing-history

:)

[GloryGlory]

I think this underscores now far behind we are, and that even money from Foley is only helping to close the gap, rather than push us ahead.

We'll need to be A LOT smarter with how we spend our cash than we have been to realise the aim of consistently finishing 3rd.

I expect that will come from the exposure to the wider Black Knight Group - with sports data and analytics and commercial opportunities among other things there to be exploited. Plus the player development pathways should allow us access to better talent through the ranks.

[GloryGlory]

I don't see anything to worry about with the accounts. It's broadly in line with what Ron Gordon said he'd do when taking over.

There's also the distinct whiff of **** on this thread mixed in with the usual drama queens.

Yes. It's a curious mixture of those who demand Hibs spend more money on players with those who don't like the accounts showing a loss with those who are scathing when a new investment opportunity comes along and this then induces an attack of the vapours in others about "dilution of ownership control" as if they had any ownership control in the first place.

[PatHead]

ISTR the club was sold in the summer - we would probs have had a lot of cash in the bank at that point, much of which was season ticket money that had already been committed to meet expenditure as it arose in the year ahead

If our new set of accounts are to the end of June surely we will have received a large chunk of season ticket money so they will be like for like. And we should have cash in the bank at that point? I think it is not unreasonable to count the £5m we had in the bank at the point of sale as an asset if we are counted any cash we had at the end of June as an asset.

[Billy Whizz]

Dont understand any of that 🫢

You were too quick, I needed to fix the link after I posted it😀

[Bridge hibs]

You were too quick, I needed to fix the link after I posted it😀

I actually thought it was a statement from Budge 😁

[One Day Soon]

I think this underscores how far behind we are, and that even money from Foley is only helping to close the gap, rather than push us ahead.

We'll need to be A LOT smarter with how we spend our cash than we have been to realise the aim of consistently finishing 3rd.


Indeed. I have no gripe with what the accounts show (apart from the apparently ludicrous size of Kensell's salary), we need to be speculating to accumulate in my view. However I think you are spot on that when we spend money we need to spend it well. No more letting the kids Xbox their way through piles of cash on the wrong managers and the wrong players please.

[PatHead]

If you guys mean the Gordons/Bydland are calling up their loans to the club you couldn't be more wrong. They are changing their loans to shares so the club will not have to repay them .Clearly the best thing that could happen.

Don't agree that it is the best thing that could happen. The best thing would have been to never run the debt up in the first place. We had over £5m in the bank and seem to have gotten through that and the new debt in the years since the takeover.

Even allowing for the new corporate facilities, scoreboards, TVs etc that is a massive debt to run up.

I wonder how long it will take for the higher income created by these new facilities to cover the initial outlay?

[Baldy Foghorn]

Don't agree that it is the best thing that could happen. The best thing would have been to never run the debt up in the first place. We had over £5m in the bank and seem to have gotten through that and the new debt in the years since the takeover.

Even allowing for the new corporate facilities, scoreboards, TVs etc that is a massive debt to run up.

I wonder how long it will take for the higher income created by these new facilities to cover the initial outlay?

Loans from Bydand always made me concerned, especially borrowing against our securities. Never made much Business sense to me