St Minging

[matty_f]

Ep 246 St Minging

A hard one to take on Saturday, is it time up for Monty? We pick the bones out the game in this week's episode.

https://youtu.be/_ocZbTQ5FJ4?si=Mn_LUsvXltxDzxw8

https://pod.fo/e/21a3bc

[BILLYHIBS]

Too many ads Matty

You must be doing really well :greengrin

[matty_f]

Too many ads Matty

You must be doing really well :greengrin

I wish!!

[Danderhall Hibs]

Too many ads Matty

You must be doing really well :greengrin

You should have a look for the ad free option Billy. I hate adverts too.

[DaveF]

I struggle with Johns point about how we should keep NM or will end up here again in 6 months.

I'd agree if there some signs we were going in the right direction, but there is none of that at all. We are sinking at an alarming rate. Of course, it would also help if the board stopped picking duds as managers, then perhaps the fans might have some patience with what's on offer.

Oh, an on Gogic...I don't think we (the fans chased him out) more that he wasn't a great midfielder. Saints play him at the back and he's thriving there. It was a totally different role at Hibs and he just wasn't great at it.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Just thank your lucky stars I wasn’t on this episode, I’m still in a foul mood 😂

Whilst taking a dump this morning I was of good mind to drive down to HTC and ask for an audience with Mr Montgomery.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I struggle with Johns point about how we should keep NM or will end up here again in 6 months.

I'd agree if there some signs we were going in the right direction, but there is none of that at all. We are sinking at an alarming rate. Of course, it would also help if the board stopped picking duds as managers, then perhaps the fans might have some patience with what's on offer.

Oh, an on Gogic...I don't think we (the fans chased him out) more that he wasn't a great midfielder. Saints play him at the back and he's thriving there. It was a totally different role at Hibs and he just wasn't great at it.

Do you think all the managers have been duds though? Or has there been other factors involved?

[matty_f]

I struggle with Johns point about how we should keep NM or will end up here again in 6 months.

I'd agree if there some signs we were going in the right direction, but there is none of that at all. We are sinking at an alarming rate. Of course, it would also help if the board stopped picking duds as managers, then perhaps the fans might have some patience with what's on offer.

Oh, an on Gogic...I don't think we (the fans chased him out) more that he wasn't a great midfielder. Saints play him at the back and he's thriving there. It was a totally different role at Hibs and he just wasn't great at it.

I think we need to see signs of improvement as well, Dave. We did an episode on the pattern of hiring and firing ages ago, and I can see why John picks that side of the argument because there’s absolutely nothing to suggest that the approach we’ve had of sacking and hiring has moved us forward at all, in fact the evidence suggests that the cycle takes us backwards consistently (culminating in relegation, successful rebuild, gradual deterioration, relegation, successful rebuild, gradual deterioration…)

There’s definitely a case to be made for sticking with a manager for a proper period of time. I would want some evidence that he’s the right guy though, you need some proof that things will get better - blind faith and time won’t be enough.

[matty_f]

Just thank your lucky stars I wasn’t on this episode, I’m still in a foul mood 😂

Whilst taking a dump this morning I was of good mind to drive down to HTC and ask for an audience with Mr Montgomery.

:faf:

[jeffers]

Just thank your lucky stars I wasn’t on this episode, I’m still in a foul mood 😂

Whilst taking a dump this morning I was of good mind to drive down to HTC and ask for an audience with Mr Montgomery.

I hope you weren’t dumping and driving. :greengrin

[DaveF]

Do you think all the managers have been duds though? Or has there been other factors involved?

From the outside looking in, I'd say yes. But I've no idea who controls recruitment and targeting of players, so where the blame actually lies for the spectacular disaster to address our glaring problem areas is a bit of an unknown to me.

But keeping NM when we are on a downward slide with no signs of stopping is just an insane view to take. I hope he turns it around, starting on Wednesday. I don't want another managerial change - but the guy is performing so badly at the moment, he isn't leaving much of an option is he?

[Danderhall Hibs]

From the outside looking in, I'd say yes. But I've no idea who controls recruitment and targeting of players, so where the blame actually lies for the spectacular disaster to address our glaring problem areas is a bit of an unknown to me.

But keeping NM when we are on a downward slide with no signs of stopping is just an insane view to take. I hope he turns it around, starting on Wednesday. I don't want another managerial change - but the guy is performing so badly at the moment, he isn't leaving much of an option is he?

No - it’s a struggle.

[coldingham hibs]

From the outside looking in, I'd say yes. But I've no idea who controls recruitment and targeting of players, so where the blame actually lies for the spectacular disaster to address our glaring problem areas is a bit of an unknown to me.

But keeping NM when we are on a downward slide with no signs of stopping is just an insane view to take. I hope he turns it around, starting on Wednesday. I don't want another managerial change - but the guy is performing so badly at the moment, he isn't leaving much of an option is he?

Brian McDermott said it was a great transfer window & Montgomery has a clear vision so it was easy identifying the players he wanted, or words to that effect.

[Baader]

I struggle with Johns point about how we should keep NM or will end up here again in 6 months.

I'd agree if there some signs we were going in the right direction, but there is none of that at all. We are sinking at an alarming rate. Of course, it would also help if the board stopped picking duds as managers, then perhaps the fans might have some patience with what's on offer.

Oh, an on Gogic...I don't think we (the fans chased him out) more that he wasn't a great midfielder. Saints play him at the back and he's thriving there. It was a totally different role at Hibs and he just wasn't great at it.

I thought this too. I don't get the argument that because you did something before and got it wrong that should exclude you from taking the same action again. As you say there is nothing in evidence Montgomery can or will turn us around. I think he looks lost now.

The reason we've had to sack so many managers is because we've continually appointed the wrong ones. That doesn't make Montgomery any better or any more the right man. Your colleagues at work shouldn't stay in their roles because the guys preceeding them were equally as bad at the job. Just get the right bloody appointment next time.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I thought this too. I don't get the argument that because you did something before and got it wrong that should exclude you from taking the same action again. As you say there is nothing in evidence Montgomery can or will turn us around. I think he looks lost now.

The reason we've had to sack so many managers I'd because we've continually appointed the wrong ones. That doesn't make Montgomery any better or any more the right man. Just get the right bloody appointment next time.

Agree with your last paragraph completely which is why I never get the idea we simply need to stick with a manager. We could have had one manager in the last 20 years or 20 managers in the last 20 years. It’s irrelevant. If the current guy is hopeless, as is the case right now, then they have to go.

[matty_f]

Agree with your last paragraph completely which is why I never get the idea we simply need to stick with a manager. We could have had one manager in the last 20 years or 20 managers in the last 20 years. It’s irrelevant. If the current guy is hopeless, as is the case right now, then they have to go.

The argument is that you’re never really seeing whether the guy is hopeless or not other than in a short time frame and then expecting the new guy to come into a failing team and then turn it around and what you generally see is that they get a short term lift but then the results default to where they were, they get sacked and the cycle repeats again.

I’m not defending Monty, Saturday was another straw on the camel’s back for me but he’s had one game after one transfer window, in which two of his signings came in a couple of days before the match.

Sacking him now means someone else coming in and, presumably, changing the shape and system that we’ve just recruited for. He’ll need to turn it around before getting to the summer window. If he does that successfully, then great, but if he just gets through it then he’s starting the new season on the back foot. He’ll get a few games (three this season for Johnson) before the trigger is pulled and we start again.


I get the urge to sack Monty already and I’m really playing devil’s advocate here because i don’t think we’ve seen enough from him, but that “we’ve not seen enough” also applies to the opportunity he’s had with his players in - we’ve not seen enough of them to know if it’ll sort the problems or not.

It’s not a mental argument to suggest giving a manager time might be the answer, when all of the evidence suggests that constantly changing the manager takes you backwards or at least doesn’t take you forward for a sustained period.

[DaveF]

It’s not a mental argument to suggest giving a manager time might be the answer, when all of the evidence suggests that constantly changing the manager takes you backwards or at least doesn’t take you forward for a sustained period.

It's completely mental if the manager you want to give time to has the team shipping goals aplenty, not creating any chances and being overrun for most of the game.

It's not rocket science to get the basics right in this league. Stevie Reid pointed them out on a PM board thread. Make us hard to beat, make us competitive and spend the money on match winners.

NMs stubbornness will see him emptied. That's not the fault of the fans who want change because they are sick of watching their team get turned over week in week out.

[matty_f]

It's completely mental if the manager you want to give time to has the team shipping goals aplenty, not creating any chances and being overrun for most of the game.

It's not rocket science to get the basics right in this league. Stevie Reid pointed them out on a PM board thread. Make us hard to beat, make us competitive and spend the money on match winners.

NMs stubbornness will see him emptied. That's not the fault of the fans who want change because they are sick of watching their team get turned over week in week out.

Yeah, there is that. :greengrin

[Hibees1973]

I thought this too. I don't get the argument that because you did something before and got it wrong that should exclude you from taking the same action again. As you say there is nothing in evidence Montgomery can or will turn us around. I think he looks lost now.

The reason we've had to sack so many managers is because we've continually appointed the wrong ones. That doesn't make Montgomery any better or any more the right man. Your colleagues at work shouldn't stay in their roles because the guys preceeding them were equally as bad at the job. Just get the right bloody appointment next time.

From outside looking in there is a very good argument that sacking him now is justified. The evidence is there that when The Gordons and Kensell sacked Ross/Maloney/Johnson they were all on a similar run that Montgomery is on now.

Sacking him now would save Montgomery from putting a deposit on a house and he could make a clean break for him and his family.

Out of the four Ross was the best manager for us, there is absolutely no doubt about that. He got us to third and in cup finals. He was sacked after he wasn't backed in the transfer market and it was just after a Covid outbreak in the squad and the SPFL rammed a whole load of fixtures at us that November & December. Know some will says aye, but we bottled it in finals. Fair enough, but see where we are now.

Ross was already there before The Gordons and Kensell came on the scene. I always got the feeling that they tied the hands of Mathie & Ross and at the first point we went on a difficult run they both got the boot. Ron Gordon is on record that he sacked Ross too early. Even Boyle said it was the wrong decision.

The result was the Wine Seller appointed himself Head of Recruitment and since then it has turned into a complete farce on the park.

[JimBHibees]

It's completely mental if the manager you want to give time to has the team shipping goals aplenty, not creating any chances and being overrun for most of the game.

It's not rocket science to get the basics right in this league. Stevie Reid pointed them out on a PM board thread. Make us hard to beat, make us competitive and spend the money on match winners.

NMs stubbornness will see him emptied. That's not the fault of the fans who want change because they are sick of watching their team get turned over week in week out.

I get that and Saturday was horrific however genuinely would like to see him given a chance to see what he can do with the new players just come in. Strange selection on Saturday just wonder if a few existing players noses are out of joint. If so he needs to be more ruthless in selection. Second half v Killie was ok and should have won however we are so fragile lose a goal and looks like they fall apart.

[jeffers]

I get that and Saturday was horrific however genuinely would like to see him given a chance to see what he can do with the new players just come in. Strange selection on Saturday just wonder if a few existing players noses are out of joint. If so he needs to be more ruthless in selection. Second half v Killie was ok and should have won however we are so fragile lose a goal and looks like they fall apart.

I’d like to see him given a chance, but he’s not doing himself any favours with selections and tactics. Feels like it was an absolute age where we played well against Aberdeen in the semi and lost a game we shouldn’t have. I don’t know where it’s gone wrong from there, but we are so slow and cumbersome now.

[JimBHibees]

I’d like to see him given a chance, but he’s not doing himself any favours with selections and tactics. Feels like it was an absolute age where we played well against Aberdeen in the semi and lost a game we shouldn’t have. I don’t know where it’s gone wrong from there, but we are so slow and cumbersome now.

Couldn’t really disagree team on Saturday was a shocker. Have been patches in games Killie second half, some of the derby some of the Well game but nowhere near enough. Was a little surprised there weren’t more new guys starting at the weekend and hope he puts more in on Wednesday.

[Nicho87]

About crashed my car with John so adamant in defending Monty and the playoffs may galvanise the squad.

First time I’ve strongly disagreed with one of you to be brutally honest.

A great episode of a **** show performance however

[matty_f]

Couldn’t really disagree team on Saturday was a shocker. Have been patches in games Killie second half, some of the derby some of the Well game but nowhere near enough. Was a little surprised there weren’t more new guys starting at the weekend and hope he puts more in on Wednesday.

I think he has to - the season (and his job) will stand or fall depending on the impact these guys have. He knows it’s not working with the guys he inherited, so it’s all or nothing with the new guys now.

[jeffers]

Couldn’t really disagree team on Saturday was a shocker. Have been patches in games Killie second half, some of the derby some of the Well game but nowhere near enough. Was a little surprised there weren’t more new guys starting at the weekend and hope he puts more in on Wednesday.

He has to do something different Jim, playing the same underperforming players yet again would be mental.

[matty_f]

About crashed my car with John so adamant in defending Monty and the playoffs may galvanise the squad.

First time I’ve strongly disagreed with one of you to be brutally honest.

A great episode of a **** show performance however

I think that puts to bed any thought of a party line with the podcast, i really disagreed with that point as well but I’m glad we discussed it and had that other perspective.

I’m also really pleased that folk have been able to disagree and still enjoy the episode!

[Nicho87]

I think that puts to bed any thought of a party line with the podcast, i really disagreed with that point as well but I’m glad we discussed it and had that other perspective.

I’m also really pleased that folk have been able to disagree and still enjoy the episode!

Of course, as you said during the pod, I get where John is coming from.

Changing manager, here we go again.

But for me, Saturday was the last straw.

Ive been calling for McInnes for a couple of years now. I’d genuinely give him 3 years and barring relegation say build us up as you see fit.

We need a knowledgeable, experienced manager who get a tune out of any squad

He ticks so many boxes for me now.

[Edinburgh Green]

The argument is that you’re never really seeing whether the guy is hopeless or not other than in a short time frame and then expecting the new guy to come into a failing team and then turn it around and what you generally see is that they get a short term lift but then the results default to where they were, they get sacked and the cycle repeats again.

I’m not defending Monty, Saturday was another straw on the camel’s back for me but he’s had one game after one transfer window, in which two of his signings came in a couple of days before the match.

Sacking him now means someone else coming in and, presumably, changing the shape and system that we’ve just recruited for. He’ll need to turn it around before getting to the summer window. If he does that successfully, then great, but if he just gets through it then he’s starting the new season on the back foot. He’ll get a few games (three this season for Johnson) before the trigger is pulled and we start again.


I get the urge to sack Monty already and I’m really playing devil’s advocate here because i don’t think we’ve seen enough from him, but that “we’ve not seen enough” also applies to the opportunity he’s had with his players in - we’ve not seen enough of them to know if it’ll sort the problems or not.

It’s not a mental argument to suggest giving a manager time might be the answer, when all of the evidence suggests that constantly changing the manager takes you backwards or at least doesn’t take you forward for a sustained period.

This is what I cant understand, even with all the new personal I still think we are much better suited to a 4-3-3, 3-5-2

[Musselbound]

Of course, as you said during the pod, I get where John is coming from.

Changing manager, here we go again.

But for me, Saturday was the last straw.

Ive been calling for McInnes for a couple of years now. I’d genuinely give him 3 years and barring relegation say build us up as you see fit.

We need a knowledgeable, experienced manager who get a tune out of any squad

He ticks so many boxes for me now.

Anyone else think it's not a given McInnes would even come here? He's building Killie up into a decent side so why would he give that up to come to Hibs with our recent track record and history of sacking managers?

[Nicho87]

Anyone else think it's not a given McInnes would even come here? He's building Killie up into a decent side so why would he give that up to come to Hibs with our recent track record and history of sacking managers?

Hopefully we find out when the time comes

[007]

Just thank your lucky stars I wasn’t on this episode, I’m still in a foul mood 😂

Whilst taking a dump this morning I was of good mind to drive down to HTC and ask for an audience with Mr Montgomery.

Pedanic Hibee this morning.
https://i.ibb.co/CPbsy1N/555000005767201.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Is It On....]

From outside looking in there is a very good argument that sacking him now is justified. The evidence is there that when The Gordons and Kensell sacked Ross/Maloney/Johnson they were all on a similar run that Montgomery is on now.

Sacking him now would save Montgomery from putting a deposit on a house and he could make a clean break for him and his family.

Out of the four Ross was the best manager for us, there is absolutely no doubt about that. He got us to third and in cup finals. He was sacked after he wasn't backed in the transfer market and it was just after a Covid outbreak in the squad and the SPFL rammed a whole load of fixtures at us that November & December. Know some will says aye, but we bottled it in finals. Fair enough, but see where we are now.

Ross was already there before The Gordons and Kensell came on the scene. I always got the feeling that they tied the hands of Mathie & Ross and at the first point we went on a difficult run they both got the boot. Ron Gordon is on record that he sacked Ross too early. Even Boyle said it was the wrong decision.

The result was the Wine Seller appointed himself Head of Recruitment and since then it has turned into a complete farce on the park.

I think The Sommelier is a kinder name ...but I wasn't popular pointing out that Ian Gordon (the owners son and someone with no experience of player recruitment) should be, after an extensive extensive global search, be appointed as Head of Player Recruitment. Thankfully he is no longer in the role but Ian, Ben and Brian need to reflect in the appointment of an another wholly unsuitable manager. For the record, I hope this post ages really badly but, sadly, I don't think it will.