Who is good enough?

[lugz]

As fans we want hibs to be competing regularly at the top of the division, 3rd place should always be the aim yet we are miles off it year after year.

The question is, from the current squad (not including the signings who have just come in) who is good enough to be part of a team that meet those expectations on a regular basis?

I'd be very surprised if anyone names even 5 players.

[Diclonius]

No

[greenlex]

Obita. Vente and possibly Fish. That’s it. There’s also an arguement fur none of them.,

[Stevie Reid]

Judging by how they are doing with their current sides, I bet the likes of McInnes, Robinson and Docherty would fancy their chances of third with this squad.

They’d no doubt bring in a couple of big characters - which we sorely lack - but this squad is capable of much more than we’ve seen this season.

Indeed, we saw that last season, even when we were decimated by injuries to really key players.

[neil7908]

It's really hard to say right now.

We can't fairly comment on any of the new signings as we haven't seen enough of them.

Of the more established players in the squad, Boyle is the only one I'd be upset to see leave.

I think Vente is a player but at the same time it's hard to keep saying that when he and we are struggling so badly.

The whole back line could go imo and I wouldn't shed a tear. Would maybe keep Obita but he's hardly set the heather on fire.

[Saint Hibee]

Hard to answer this question. A lot of the players currently playing so badly might look quite different if and when properly managed.

[1875M]

Hard to answer this question. A lot of the players currently playing so badly might look quite different if and when properly managed.

I agree. I actually think we’ve got a decent squad (not amazing) but I think a better manager with more tactical awareness and the ability to organise a team gets much more out of this squad. Boyle, Vente, Youan, Newell, Fish, Miller are all decent players at this level.

[The Modfather]

Obita. Think there’s a fair argument for setting up to get the best out of Boyle & Vente, though I’m not fully convinced by either.

Two new centre backs and hopefully a midfield with Amos & Moira-Welsh is the answer and those 4 positions could be enough to carry a few others like Newell & Youan.

[JammyDoidger]

The team that beat Luzern. It's in there somewhere, this donut isn't getting anywhere near the best out of them, Infact if I was a player I'd be going to the board to get him out, it can't be enjoyable.

[B.H.F.C]

Although he’s not quite the player of before, I still think Boyle is one of the best wide players in the league (if played there) and he actually cares as well. Beyond that, there is nobody I’d be concerned about losing.

There are arguments to be made for a few of them being better in a different setup but that’s about it.

Players are every bit as big an issue as the manager IMO. Surely the fact they’re looking increasingly likely to see off a second manager in the same season (which will be the second time a number of them have done so) tells you that. It can’t always just be down to the manager.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Hard to answer this question. A lot of the players currently playing so badly might look quite different if and when properly managed.

:agree:

[Unseen work]

I actually think plenty of the players are individually good enough.

But as a team, balance and the tactics being used they’re not at the moment.

Get a good balance and operate some good tactics and we start winning games

[Pretty Boy]

You succeed in Scottish football by having a solid spine. A good goalkeeper, a solid CB or 2 and a couple of good midfielders.

On all known evidence we have very little of that albeit we are still to really see a few new additions play. The flair/exciting/luxury players are the ones you add around that spine. Who is to say a player like Youan, as an example, wouldn't look a million times better when we sort that core.

We seem to have almost gone the other way and signed a lot of nominally creative and flair types but with no solid foundations to the side. I would struggle to name 5 to build a team around right now.

[Centre Hawf]

I honestly think at the moment everyone should realistically have a reasonable price on their head that would see us get rid of them. If someone offered us the chance to recoup even close to what we paid for the likes of Youan and Levitt for example I'd take it now.

There are players I like, but I'm not blinkered enough to think they're someone we can't realistically replace with at least similar or hopefully better. The only issue is we've barely signed better than what we're replacing for the last 3 or 4 seasons so I don't have that much faith in us to be able to go and actually do it.

[Brooster]

Boyle and Fish. That's the only 2 good players we have.

[Allan45]

Boyle and Fish. That's the only 2 good players we have.

Agree

[B.H.F.C]

You succeed in Scottish football by having a solid spine. A good goalkeeper, a solid CB or 2 and a couple of good midfielders.

On all known evidence we have very little of that albeit we are still to really see a few new additions play. The flair/exciting/luxury players are the ones you add around that spine. Who is to say a player like Youan, as an example, wouldn't look a million times better when we sort that core.

We seem to have almost gone the other way and signed a lot of nominally creative and flair types but with no solid foundations to the side. I would struggle to name 5 to build a team around right now.

Fair point. I think I was just that disgusted by the attitude yesterday, of some of the players that would be deemed to need that spine around them, that I’d gladly see the back of them.

There has been an argument for ages that the squad is good and it’s something I just totally disagree with. There are some capable enough players sprinkled about but, as a collective, it doesn’t work.

If you think of our improved form at the backend of last season there wasn’t that much in the way of flair in the team. You had Youan and Nisbet but that was about it. Cadden was playing on the right hand side with Egan-Riley behind him. Jeggo came in and there wasn’t anyone particularly creative in the middle of the park. A team full of ‘good’ footballers doesn’t work in this league. Without a proper spine, it’s useless.

[MikeyS]

As fans we want hibs to be competing regularly at the top of the division, 3rd place should always be the aim yet we are miles off it year after year.

The question is, from the current squad (not including the signings who have just come in) who is good enough to be part of a team that meet those expectations on a regular basis?

I'd be very surprised if anyone names even 5 players.

Boyle (if played RW), Obita and hopefully Vente.

It wouldn't bother me if any of the rest never pulled a Hibs top on again.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Vente, Obita, maybe one or two of the new lads. That’s it.


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[VoltaireHibs]

As painful as it may be I'd give as many of the new boys as possible a start versus Celtic. Get serious minutes into them against a good team and let them see that standard, knock any idea out of their heads that they'll stroll this league.

After that I'll tell you who I'd keep, because right now the answer would be - no one in particular.

[Brooster]

Vente, Obita, maybe one or two of the new lads. That’s it.


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Vente hasn't played well for months and hardly scores or assists. Obita can't really defend as he proved yesterday. All about opinions I suppose.

[matty_f]

As painful as it may be I'd give as many of the new boys as possible a start versus Celtic. Get serious minutes into them against a good team and let them see that standard, knock any idea out of their heads that they'll stroll this league.

After that I'll tell you who I'd keep, because right now the answer would be - no one in particular.

We should be seeing the new players starting more often than not. Monty told us he wanted players impacting the first team so if we’ve signed 7 players and keep them on the bench then something has gone seriously wrong.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Boyle, Youan, Cadden and Marcondes.

Fish is living off 4 months last season for me. Obita maybe if we can find a position to play him but he's not a left back. Cadden I don't think is amazing at right back either but is a top three/four level player.

[snedzuk]

Sunshine is still OK, especially when he does his wee dance pre kick off. Em, that's it.

[CentreLine]

Looking for excuses and reflecting on things, after a weekend of anger and disappointment, I’m beginning to wonder about the absence of Hanlon and secrecy surrounding it. Now I am not about to suggest Hanlon should be our first choice CH, more about why he was missing. Sent home ill from training someone said. At this time of year, is it possible there was/is a bug going through the first team squad?
It just seems to me, some of the lily-livered performances were so unexpected, maybe there was something less sinister behind it than being a bunch of wage thieves.

Yeh, I know but need to find some comfort from that awful display.

[Heedersnvolleys]

Vente hasn't played well for months and hardly scores or assists. Obita can't really defend as he proved yesterday. All about opinions I suppose.

So no one in your opinion?

[Brooster]

So no one in your opinion?

I've listed my good players above.

[JimBHibees]

Boyle, Youan, Cadden and Marcondes.

Fish is living off 4 months last season for me. Obita maybe if we can find a position to play him but he's not a left back. Cadden I don't think is amazing at right back either but is a top three/four level player.

Option Wednesday to put Lewis back in with Obita in front of him while appreciate Lewis hasn’t been great this season. Miller and Boyle the other side.

[JimBHibees]

Boyle and Fish. That's the only 2 good players we have.

And neither have been great recently

[Winston Ingram]

Marshall, Miller, Obita, Fish, Newell, Moriah-Welsh, Levitt, Boyle, Youan, Jair, Vente, Maolida, Marcondes.

[JimBHibees]

Marshall, Miller, Obita, Fish, Newell, Moriah-Welsh, Levitt, Boyle, Youan, Jair, Vente, Maolida, Marcondes.

What formation 😄

[Heisenberg]

I think we’ve got plenty players good enough to finish at least 5th, especially now we’ve got more depth.

[AugustaHibs]

Marshall, Miller, Obita, Fish, Newell, Moriah-Welsh, Levitt, Boyle, Youan, Jair, Vente, Maolida, Marcondes.

Good enough for east of Scotland.

[500miles]

We've got good players. We also have one or two that are so far off it we're playing like a man down every week.

Fortunately, I think we've signed their replacements already and post Celtic we won't need to see them in the starting XI again.

[Since452]

We weren't far away from 3rd last season to be fair. Marshall, Obita, Fish, Newell, Boyle, Youan, Vente, Emiliano are all good enough if they are played to their strengths.

If i'm being brutally honest i'm sick of the sight of all of them at the minute and wouldn't lose sleep if any of them left. That's probably more to do with my general feeling about Hibs right now.

[WestStandWillie]

Obita. Vente and possibly Fish. That’s it. There’s also an arguement fur none of them.,

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

[Hiber-nation]

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

No idea what all the hilarity is. He's a talented young laddie that's surrounded by dross and a clueless manager and lost his confidence as a result.

[The Modfather]

We weren't far away from 3rd last season to be fair. Marshall, Obita, Fish, Newell, Boyle, Youan, Vente, Emiliano are all good enough if they are played to their strengths.

If i'm being brutally honest i'm sick of the sight of all of them at the minute and wouldn't lose sleep if any of them left. That's probably more to do with my general feeling about Hibs right now.




We also fell over the line into the top 6, hoping results went our way on the last pre split day. That to me sums up this squad. As capable of 5th as bottom 6. Season to season, manager to manager, you never know if it’s the bottom 6 squad that will turn up or the 5th place squad. We often see both versions throughout a season.

[Donegal Hibby]

Jair and Levitt haven't offered enough to be in the side . Both young Right backs while good young players who have massive potential aren't ready for first team football imo . There's also a few of our better players like Newell , Youan , miller etc who's form have dipped which is worrying . I think the squad as good as anyone's though we just aren't getting enough out of them .

[WestStandWillie]

No idea what all the hilarity is. He's a talented young laddie that's surrounded by dross and a clueless manager and lost his confidence as a result.

He's awful. Too many fans clouded by his wee 3 month purple patch last season. Got turned inside out against Motherwell, had an almighty brain fart against Forfar when he took the ball for a walk into the opposition half and passed directly to a Forfar midfielder (thankfully they missed with that attack) and was posted missing on Saturday.

You might accept mediocrity but I don't. League 2 football beckons for Mr Fish.

[DIXIHIBS]

Vente hasn't played well for months and hardly scores or assists. Obita can't really defend as he proved yesterday. All about opinions I suppose.

I think Obita is more suited to left midfield. Defends better than Youan and can get forward as well.

[Heisenberg]

He's awful. Too many fans clouded by his wee 3 month purple patch last season. Got turned inside out against Motherwell, had an almighty brain fart against Forfar when he took the ball for a walk into the opposition half and passed directly to a Forfar midfielder (thankfully they missed with that attack) and was posted missing on Saturday.

You might accept mediocrity but I don't. League 2 football beckons for Mr Fish.

He’s been a big letdown and that’s been under two managers now, cost us goals regularly.

[flash]

He's awful. Too many fans clouded by his wee 3 month purple patch last season. Got turned inside out against Motherwell, had an almighty brain fart against Forfar when he took the ball for a walk into the opposition half and passed directly to a Forfar midfielder (thankfully they missed with that attack) and was posted missing on Saturday.

You might accept mediocrity but I don't. League 2 football beckons for Mr Fish.

"ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY!"

The clarion call of the moron.

[Hiber-nation]

"ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY!"

The clarion call of the moron.

Willie needs to protest outside the West with a banner saying "I WILL NOT ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY" .

[WestStandWillie]

"ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY!"

The clarion call of the moron.

Lose any credibility with name calling :aok:

[flash]

Lose any credibility with name calling :aok:

Naw you lose it when you accuse good Hibs people like you did.

[WestStandWillie]

Naw you lose it when you accuse good Hibs people like you did.

:faf::faf:

[CockneyRebel]

Marshall, Miller, Obita, Fish, Newell, Moriah-Welsh, Levitt, Boyle, Youan, Jair, Vente, Maolida, Marcondes.


Levitt?

[flash]

:faf::faf:

Oscar Wilde has spoken.

[VoltaireHibs]

Looking for excuses and reflecting on things, after a weekend of anger and disappointment, I’m beginning to wonder about the absence of Hanlon and secrecy surrounding it. Now I am not about to suggest Hanlon should be our first choice CH, more about why he was missing. Sent home ill from training someone said. At this time of year, is it possible there was/is a bug going through the first team squad?
It just seems to me, some of the lily-livered performances were so unexpected, maybe there was something less sinister behind it than being a bunch of wage thieves.

Yeh, I know but need to find some comfort from that awful display.


Maybe Hanlon, in his capacity as captain, had a frank exchange of views with NM? Or maybe he's sitting at home drinking Lemsip? I wouldn't blame him if it's the former.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I think we have enough in our team to be decent.

For me Scottish football is about good organisation and being fit and athletic.

I think in a good system quite a few of our players would be fine.

Levitt, Newell, Vente, Stevenson, Alf, Marcondes are quite obviously guys who I would have described when I played rugby as guys who only have 'one gear'. Not seen amos. That is not to say these guys can't get a place.

When we signed Levitt my united supporting mate said "great signing but will need an athletic worker beside him as he doesn't run".

So for me, it is criminal to play both Newell and Levitt in this position as they will never be more energetic than other midfields. To play Levitt, Newell and Marcondes (not fit yet) is football suicide as we saw on Saturday.

If he is playing two in the middle with one attacking in front it can only be Welsh, Amos (provided he can run and has energy) and Marcondes. That way the running of the former will accommodate Marcondes. I don't even know if that will work.

But a team that has marshall in goals, with miller and obita as full backs and any of our cb's. With Boyle and Malioda on wings and Vente up top is plenty firepower and running. It is the middle of the park that needs serious work.

I am not really looking at centre back as our problems stem from beyond that and the lack of protection these guys get.

[greenlex]

He's awful. Too many fans clouded by his wee 3 month purple patch last season. Got turned inside out against Motherwell, had an almighty brain fart against Forfar when he took the ball for a walk into the opposition half and passed directly to a Forfar midfielder (thankfully they missed with that attack) and was posted missing on Saturday.

You might accept mediocrity but I don't. League 2 football beckons for Mr Fish.

**** me the oracle has spoken.

[Winston Ingram]

Levitt?

He's proven he can perform at this level over the last couple of years, but he's been Monty'd like the rest of them

[Springbank]

He's proven he can perform at this level over the last couple of years, but he's been Monty'd like the rest of them

He's a luxury player (like 6 of our starting XI) who should be nowhere near the engine room.

He's a poncy no10 who wont work, because that's for less talented folk
The same attitude we see in Youan, Maolida, Marcondes, and to some extent Newell.
In our league you can get away with 1 shirker, tops, and even then it's giving the opposition an advantage.

We have half a team (of which Levitt is prime candidate) who think they're too talented to work hard.
And they're getting battered by teams featuring Alex Gogic, James Scott, Drey Wright....

I'm not a fan of Levitt

[Chipper1875]

He's a luxury player (like 6 of our starting XI) who should be nowhere near the engine room.

He's a poncy no10 who wont work, because that's for less talented folk
The same attitude we see in Youan, Maolida, Marcondes, and to some extent Newell.
In our league you can get away with 1 shirker, tops, and even then it's giving the opposition an advantage.

We have half a team (of which Levitt is prime candidate) who think they're too talented to work hard.
And they're getting battered by teams featuring Alex Gogic, James Scott, Drey Wright....

I'm not a fan of Levitt

Great post. That’s route of our issues, which Monty can’t see

[Chipper1875]

He's proven he can perform at this level over the last couple of years, but he's been Monty'd like the rest of them

If what you say is correct, then he’s a bad professional who isn’t Trying a leg . From a Dundee United player, levitt and others in that team were lazy bar stewards, hence they got relegated

[The Modfather]

He's proven he can perform at this level over the last couple of years, but he's been Monty'd like the rest of them

He’s continued where he left of last season for Dundee Utd. He was good in his first season on loan though.

He was a poor signing with obvious red flags IMO. Coming off the back of a woeful season where his desire and athleticism was questioned. Coming into a one paced, lightweight midfield. The talk at the time was he would be a good signing if he was the man to play behind the forwards. Yet he didn’t play there for Dundee Utd last season and wasn’t played there by Johnson or Montgomery. I suspect we looked at his technical quality and the fact he probably had good stats but didn’t identify how we would compliment the existing one paced midfielders that also lack drive.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Vente hasn't played well for months and hardly scores or assists. Obita can't really defend as he proved yesterday. All about opinions I suppose.

Can’t argue with you, think they’ve shown enough previously to persevere with them though. Wouldn’t lose any sleep if they were shown the door either.


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[Winston Ingram]

If what you say is correct, then he’s a bad professional who isn’t Trying a leg . From a Dundee United player, levitt and others in that team were lazy bar stewards, hence they got relegated

I think he's not capable of playing in a 2 as he just doesn't have the legs to do it. If he was put in a 3, I see his confidence returning and us having a player on his hands.

There's absolutely no doubt whatsoever that there is talent there but to me, he's just another name to add to the list that are being used wrongly.

[Edinburgh Green]

I think we have enough in our team to be decent.

For me Scottish football is about good organisation and being fit and athletic.

I think in a good system quite a few of our players would be fine.

Levitt, Newell, Vente, Stevenson, Alf, Marcondes are quite obviously guys who I would have described when I played rugby as guys who only have 'one gear'. Not seen amos. That is not to say these guys can't get a place.

When we signed Levitt my united supporting mate said "great signing but will need an athletic worker beside him as he doesn't run".

So for me, it is criminal to play both Newell and Levitt in this position as they will never be more energetic than other midfields. To play Levitt, Newell and Marcondes (not fit yet) is football suicide as we saw on Saturday.

If he is playing two in the middle with one attacking in front it can only be Welsh, Amos (provided he can run and has energy) and Marcondes. That way the running of the former will accommodate Marcondes. I don't even know if that will work.

But a team that has marshall in goals, with miller and obita as full backs and any of our cb's. With Boyle and Malioda on wings and Vente up top is plenty firepower and running. It is the middle of the park that needs serious work.

I am not really looking at centre back as our problems stem from beyond that and the lack of protection these guys get.


Agree with all that. The question shouldn't be 'who is good enough' it should be 'who is good enough to play the system that the manager want' the answer to that is very few if any of them.

[andrew70]

Potential: Miller, Jair (he’s probably too old for the potential category but we seen pre St Johnstone that he can be good).

Good players: Fish, Obita, Emiliano, Levitt, Mayenda, Vente (most intelligent player we have), Boyle (if he can sort himself out), Le Fondre (getting older).

Hopeful: Amos, Moriah-Welsh, Myziane, Bevan, Triantis

Get rid of the rest.

[Winston Ingram]

He’s continued where he left of last season for Dundee Utd. He was good in his first season on loan though.

He was a poor signing with obvious red flags IMO. Coming off the back of a woeful season where his desire and athleticism was questioned. Coming into a one paced, lightweight midfield. The talk at the time was he would be a good signing if he was the man to play behind the forwards. Yet he didn’t play there for Dundee Utd last season and wasn’t played there by Johnson or Montgomery. I suspect we looked at his technical quality and the fact he probably had good stats but didn’t identify how we would compliment the existing one paced midfielders that also lack drive.

I didn't see many red flags being raised by many on here.

I've never known him to play behind the strikers as a 10. You're the 1st person that I've even seen suggest it. He's an 8.

[Smartie]

I didn't see many red flags being raised by many on here.

I've never known him to play behind the strikers as a 10. You're the 1st person that I've even seen suggest it. He's an 8.

What do you think any new manager is going to do to get him to be an effective 8?

He looks absolutely lost and hopeless in that position to me and his glaring weaknesses will be exposed irrespective of who is in the dugout and who he has around him in the team.

Levitt is possibly the least effective footballer relative to expectation I think I've ever seen at Hibs.

His defensive weaknesses are so stark that the sort of "free role" with no defensive responsibilities and other players to do all his defending and tracking is the only logical role for him, even if it's a role he's never played before or a role that may not even exist.

[Cabbage-Patch]

From the current squad this is my thoughts

Keep - Obita, Millar, Cadden, Vente, Boyle, Youan(purely because I think the right manager will get more out of him)

Get Rid - Newell, Hanlon, Stevenson, Marshall, Rocky, JDH, McKirdy, Harbottle, Jair, Levitt, Le Fondre

Too early to say - Myziane, Marcondes, Triantis, Bevan, Moriah Welsh, Amos, Mayenda

Likes of Whittaker, Megwa and Landers etc loaned out for experience.

[Hibeesdaft16]

Option Wednesday to put Lewis back in with Obita in front of him while appreciate Lewis hasn’t been great this season. Miller and Boyle the other side.

I would go with this, at least with Lewis we also get a bit of dig and fight in the team also. Obita for Jair.