Electric Vehicles - A rant.

[SaulGoodman]

Forgive me folks but I’m having a bad day with this electric car and needed to vent. Also want to know if anyone else feels the same or if I’m just being miserable.

I first bought an electric car 3 years ago through my work. It was a good deal and I liked the idea of no longer having to fill up with fuel and the promises of cheap charging.

Now, I don’t have a driveway so can’t charge at home (first mistake maybe) however there is a public charger a 5 minute walk away from the house and I figured fair enough, I can plug in there when it needs charged or whatever.

There’s also two “rapid chargers” where I stay in Dunbar. For the first year or so everything was great, I could plug in at the library walk home and collect the car, fully charged for about £15, using the rapid chargers when needed for a quick top up.

These days though, Ooft. Prices keep jumping up, loved the idea of an electric car when I first purchased one, prices were fair and chargers always seemed to work. 3 years later and many more people have electric cars. Lucky if you can get these rapid chargers during the day and even then, one of them charges at 13kW and the other charges at 50kW but frequently cuts out mid charge. The charger at the library has been dead for about 3 months with no sign of a funeral, or someone coming to fix it. Not to mention the ridiculous 75p per kWh if you dare to charge between 4-8pm.

Moving back to a petrol hybrid next month and not a day too soon. The future? Not at this rate anyway.

Edit: As I post this, the charger has just cut out on me again. AARGH

[Jones28]

Unless you’re on a motorway and heading south the infrastructure is dog****.

A former colleague runs an electric audi covering Scotland and the mental routes he has to take to find a chargers are mad.

I couldn’t do it.

[SaulGoodman]

Unless you’re on a motorway and heading south the infrastructure is dog****.

A former colleague runs an electric audi covering Scotland and the mental routes he has to take to find a chargers are mad.

I couldn’t do it.

It’s an electric Audi I have and I think they’ve went with style over substance because it doesn’t look like an electric car and the range is absolutely dugmeat. Promised range of ~200 miles on a full charge but you’ll only get that if you crawl everywhere at 50mph. I thought setting the cruise at 70 would give me reasonable range but it drains the battery quicker than Hibs drain my happiness.

I’ve started getting insured on my mums car for taking on our trips up north. Ullapool and back on not even a tank of diesel. Electric cars have a long way to go imo.

[Moulin Yarns]

It’s an electric Audi I have and I think they’ve went with style over substance because it doesn’t look like an electric car and the range is absolutely dugmeat. Promised range of ~200 miles on a full charge but you’ll only get that if you crawl everywhere at 50mph. I thought setting the cruise at 70 would give me reasonable range but it drains the battery quicker than Hibs drain my happiness.

I’ve started getting insured on my mums car for taking on our trips up north. Ullapool and back on not even a tank of diesel. Electric cars have a long way to go imo.

I've got friends 40 miles north of Ullapool who have an MG4 ev and they have no problem with charging or planning trips to the central belt.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've got a 170 mile round trip to Glasgow this week, on street charger close to where I'm staying but stop at Stirling on the way home, large charging hub at the park and ride or rapid charger at pub for breakfast.

[patch1875]

I keep thinking of going electric but can’t bring myself to do it.

At the moment the poor range and terrible residuals are putting me off. we can charge from home which I think is a must if it’s going to work.i usually drive Audis but the etron range seems to be terrible even the large capacity 55 version.

Think Tesla’s are still the best but really hate the look of them ,the long range polestar is the one that still catches my eye.

[heretoday]

We're not ready for electric vehicles yet obviously.

[nonshinyfinish]

We're not ready for electric vehicles yet obviously.

Bit of a sweeping statement that.

If you have a home charger then you're probably fine. There will be edge cases of people needing to drive hundreds of miles in the middle of nowhere, but for that vast majority home charging + occasional public charging on a long trip is absolutely fine.

Without a home charger is harder, more expensive and dependent on public charging options near where you live. I had an EV for a year before getting a home charger, but that was before electricity prices shot up and I had a few decent public chargers nearby.

There's lots that needs to be improved – most importantly public charging infrastructure including lots of kerbside level 2 charging for people without driveways – but writing the whole thing off as 'not ready' is just ignorant.

[hibsbollah]

Ive got a home charger now, which obviously makes a massive difference. Prior to that we used chargescotland and as long as you used the zapmap app to plan your route it wasnt too bad. A couple of trips to the midlands became challenging when the spaces were busy, but you just need to have a plan B, and accept you might get delayed and have a podcast to listen to or a book to read.

Its still a lot lot cheaper than petrol, and i love not having to go to petrol stations anymore. My skoda range is supposed to be 240 miles, but i was surprised how much this drops if you have the heater on, youre doing motorway speeds and its a cold day. Probably no more than 150 miles.

[Zondervan]

I went Electric in October 2022. Car is a BMW iX3 and range have averaged out at around 200 miles for a full charge.

This range does for me as I don’t do a lot of long drives. In fact, Forfar a couple of weeks ago was about a 170 mile round trip, so had bit of a panic before setting off but I had over 30 miles to spare when I got home.

Home charger is a must-have though in my opinion, so this will rule out a lot of people that don’t have driveways, and the charging infrastructure in built-up areas is still inadequate.


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[Since90+2]

I went Electric in October 2022. Car is a BMW iX3 and range have averaged out at around 200 miles for a full charge.

This range does for me as I don’t do a lot of long drives. In fact, Forfar a couple of weeks ago was about a 170 mile round trip, so had bit of a panic before setting off but I had over 30 miles to spare when I got home.

Home charger is a must-have though in my opinion, so this will rule out a lot of people that don’t have driveways, and the charging infrastructure in built-up areas is still inadequate.


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I'd imagine the vast majority of people don't have driveways, the infrastructure is miles away from being ready.

[Hibbyradge]

27653

[McSwanky]

27653Not the best analogy really...

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[RyeSloan]

I'd imagine the vast majority of people don't have driveways, the infrastructure is miles away from being ready.

Think you would be surprised on that.

The RAC suggest 72% of cars are garaged or parked on private property and only 25% on street.

[grunt]

Think you would be surprised on that.

The RAC suggest 72% of cars are garaged or parked on private property and only 25% on street.

Where are the other 3%?

[Itsnoteasy]

Where are the other 3%?

🤣

[Stairway 2 7]

Think you would be surprised on that.

The RAC suggest 72% of cars are garaged or parked on private property and only 25% on street.

Edinburgh is a smaller figure as a city but still.

In the last census 64% lived in a flat, 13% lived in terrace housing, 13% lived in semi detached or 4 in a block, 10% in detached.

The vast majority of Edinburghers won't have a driveway.

In Scotland 36.4% of Scottish households lived in flats. 22.8% lived in semi-detached houses, 21.9% lived in detached houses, and 18.6% lived in terraced

Think it's a no brainer if you have a driveway and can afford a new car. Infrastructure in the city is terrible though we should have charging points in most streets.

[Hibbyradge]

Not the best analogy really...

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I can't think of a better one.

[Moulin Yarns]

Where are the other 3%?

Joyriding 🤔

Or in the garage having fan belt fixed 😉 ( see other thread)

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm in Glasgow for celtic connections, staying in Glassford street in the merchant city and from the window I can see 3 charging points capable of charging 2 cars each. Decent infrastructure for a street in the middle of the city.

Mind you I think it's £6 an hour for parking!!

[Hibbyradge]

Joyriding 🤔

Or in the garage having fan belt fixed 😉 ( see other thread)

There will be a huge number of cars in public car parks and Hire cars at airports etc.

Also, there are usually around 200k cars in police compounds which is probably approximately 0.6% of the total.

[H18BYM]

For me, this is just another thing I consider when choosing a car along with things like - 3 door/4 door/5 door, automatic/manual, petrol/diesel/electric, colour choice, SUV/saloon/crossover/city car, price you're willing to pay/can afford, 4x4/FWD/RWD, boot capacity, acceleration, top speed, price of spares, cost of maintenance, running costs etc. etc. Most make their choice based on multiple criteria rather than just whether it's electric or ICE.

Electric cars absolutely don't make sense for a lot of people and they can be pricey too. I'm lucky enough to have recently taken delivery of a Porsche Taycan. At best I get a range of 200-miles, although I've never put it to the test. It can charge from 10 % to 80% in less than 20-mins if you're lucky enough to find a suitable charger. For me though, I drive around 600-700 miles a month, the longest journey I ordinarily have to make is less than 30-miles to and from work and I have a drive and home charger.

For me - it works and I wouldn't change it. For lots of people however it won't whether that's through choice or lack of suitability for their lifestyle. None is better than the other, in my view it's horses for courses.

[LewysGot2]

Play football occasionally at Meadowbank and, although there’s plenty chargers, the bays are full of petrol or diesel cars. My mate with a Tesla has complained to Edinburgh Leisure umpteen times as it rips his knitting. Should be plenty capacity there but they don’t police the use of their car park and non EV drivers are not giving a toss

[Trinity Hibee]

Play football occasionally at Meadowbank and, although there’s plenty chargers, the bays are full of petrol or diesel cars. My mate with a Tesla has complained to Edinburgh Leisure umpteen times as it rips his knitting. Should be plenty capacity there but they don’t police the use of their car park and non EV drivers are not giving a toss

That is ridiculous. Some folk are ********s

[LewysGot2]

That is ridiculous. Some folk are ********s

You're talking maybe 20 bays for EV. Never any free due to non÷EV parkers.
The council should be doing better than ignoring the issue

[Moulin Yarns]

Play football occasionally at Meadowbank and, although there’s plenty chargers, the bays are full of petrol or diesel cars. My mate with a Tesla has complained to Edinburgh Leisure umpteen times as it rips his knitting. Should be plenty capacity there but they don’t police the use of their car park and non EV drivers are not giving a toss

Yep, I went to Meadowbank to top up my car when there was snooker open on in December, I was the only ev in an EV bay, all others were petrol and diesel cars.

[danhibees1875]

That sounds frustrating. I'm still not confident to take the plunge and bought a petrol car last year, I don't use my car daily - it does a weekly trip to the shops and then the odd big drive (400/500 mile round trips) every 2 months or so and I really didn't fancy the charging on that trip each time due to fears (irrational perhaps) of how much time that could add to the journey.

I'm now partially regretting not at least getting a PHEV though as I'm moving house soon and the new place has solar panels (TBC how effective they actually are) and, by chance, an EV charger built in which I'll not be able to use.

Swapping cars now feels too soon after not long getting the petrol car though - I'd presumably lose a good chunk of money.

[Scouse Hibee]

I wouldn’t even consider one after reading this thread. The anxiety of worrying about range/charger availability is not for me.

[Trinity Hibee]

I wouldn’t even consider one after reading this thread. The anxiety of worrying about range/charger availability is not for me.

Ye same. I’d be too stressed. They definitely need to improve the amount of charging points if they want people to go green. 200 mile range is certainly not enough to tempt me in to buying one and I mainly just drive in Edinburgh. But if I’ve bought a car I expect it to get me wherever I need to go, within reason, so until that time I won’t be buying one as trying to find an available charging station isn’t something I constantly want to be thinking about

[Hibbyradge]

I wouldn’t even consider one after reading this thread. The anxiety of worrying about range/charger availability is not for me.

People talk about range anxiety. Few actually experience it once they've had the car for a few weeks.

I've worried about running out of petrol/diesel many times purely because I took it for granted that there would be a filling station when I needed it so I didn't plan.

Planning to charge is actually a doddle despite what non EV users think.

I understand the reluctance with some people though. After all, there are folk who are scared to try foods because they "don't like the idea of it"! :greengrin

It's illogical, but fear is persuasive.

[matty_f]

People talk about range anxiety. Few actually experience it once they've had the car for a few weeks.

I've worried about running out of petrol/diesel many times purely because I took it for granted that there would be a filling station when I needed it so I didn't plan.

Planning to charge is actually a doddle despite what non EV users think.

I understand the reluctance with some people though. After all, there are folk who are scared to try foods because they "don't like the idea of it"! :greengrin

It's illogical, but fear is persuasive.

I've just handed back my EV (was a work car, got made redundant) and I miss it. Got a petrol car just now, and had forgotten how much I hated the petrol station trips.

I'll be going back to an EV at the first opportunity. I do a fair bit of driving, and never had the range anxiety - charger at home helped, and I never had a trip where I couldn't charge my car, including longer drives to Liverpool and Manchester, the west coast of Scotland and Aberdeen for the football (could have charged the car while I was at the game, but went for a fast charger after the game to let the traffic die down before I left).

It was by far the best driving experience I've had, and as I said, at the first chance I get, I'll be getting another.

[Scouse Hibee]

People talk about range anxiety. Few actually experience it once they've had the car for a few weeks.

I've worried about running out of petrol/diesel many times purely because I took it for granted that there would be a filling station when I needed it so I didn't plan.

Planning to charge is actually a doddle despite what non EV users think.

I understand the reluctance with some people though. After all, there are folk who are scared to try foods because they "don't like the idea of it"! :greengrin

It's illogical, but fear is persuasive.

I have driven the length and breadth of the U.K. over 30 odd years and never once worried about running out of petrol or diesel.

[speedy_gonzales]

I have driven the length and breadth of the U.K. over 30 odd years and never once worried about running out of petrol or diesel.

You've never lived.
I sometimes play "chicken" with myself and run my works van down to single figures on the "miles left in the tank" display.
Looks like my vehicle is getting swapped out for an electric van though so I'll maybe have to grow up. Not so easy to get a depleted EV battery going again as it is to walk to a garage with a fuel can 🤔

[Scouse Hibee]

You've never lived.
I sometimes play "chicken" with myself and run my works van down to single figures on the "miles left in the tank" display.
Looks like my vehicle is getting swapped out for an electric van though so I'll maybe have to grow up. Not so easy to get a depleted EV battery going again as it is to walk to a garage with a fuel can 🤔

Nah not for me mate, driving theses days is stressful enough without having to worry about running out of charge.

[Jack]

It may be an extreme example but I used to drive from Edinburgh to just beyond Exeter 2, 3, 4 times a year to my sisters house, 450 miles. Driving reasonably I could do each way on one tank of fuel. I drove through the night while my wife and youngish kids were sleeping. Stopping 2, possibly 3 times to charge the batteries would fill me with the fear 😆 and add a fair amount of time to the journey.

[Hibbyradge]

It may be an extreme example but I used to drive from Edinburgh to just beyond Exeter 2, 3, 4 times a year to my sisters house, 450 miles. Driving reasonably I could do each way on one tank of fuel. I drove through the night while my wife and youngish kids were sleeping. Stopping 2, possibly 3 times to charge the batteries would fill me with the fear 😆 and add a fair amount of time to the journey.

I get what you're saying, but depending on the car, you might only need to stop once, and if you planned for a fast charger, not for that long. I assume you stopped a couple of times on those journeys?

[Jack]

I get what you're saying, but depending on the car, you might only need to stop once, and if you planned for a fast charger, not for that long. I assume you stopped a couple of times on those journeys?
Not unless I had to! I doubt even driving at night what I did then would be possible now - too many cameras!!

[Hibbyradge]

Not unless I had to! I doubt even driving at night what I did then would be possible now - too many cameras!!

I hear you!

[hibsbollah]

People talk about range anxiety. Few actually experience it once they've had the car for a few weeks.

I've worried about running out of petrol/diesel many times purely because I took it for granted that there would be a filling station when I needed it so I didn't plan.

Planning to charge is actually a doddle despite what non EV users think.

I understand the reluctance with some people though. After all, there are folk who are scared to try foods because they "don't like the idea of it"! :greengrin

It's illogical, but fear is persuasive.

I agree with that. Its just a matter of changing the way you think about things and planning things in advance. Going electric has been a net stress reducer, for me anyway.

[Moulin Yarns]

I did an 85 mile journey to Glasgow, motorway most of the way, my range reduced by 77 miles. What is this range anxiety thing??

[nonshinyfinish]

I did an 85 mile journey to Glasgow, motorway most of the way, my range reduced by 77 miles. What is this range anxiety thing??

I’m an advocate for EVs as I think my posts on this thread and the one on the PM board show, but comments like this annoy me. People shouldn’t worry about range because on certain occasions the car underestimates the range?

It’s a good thing to counter overly negative takes, but pretending it’s all perfect and there are no downsides to EVs doesn’t help anyone.

[Stairway 2 7]

The ICE engine is obviously better just now and they are easier (filled) at the moment than electric. Unfortunately they are helping kill the planet so really must go.

Range anxiety it definitely overplayed . It's also easy though to look down if your lucky enough to have a house with a driveway and afford the huge cost in getting an EV, some people can't begin to think about spending 20k in this financial climate.

Things will get better though. Batteries will get better and charging points more regularl. It's brilliant that many are switching the more the merrier but it'll take time and it's up to the government to help speed it up but that costs

[HH81]

The ICE engine is obviously better just now and they are easier (filled) at the moment than electric. Unfortunately they are helping kill the planet so really must go.

Range anxiety it definitely overplayed . It's also easy though to look down if your lucky enough to have a house with a driveway and afford the huge cost in getting an EV, some people can't begin to think about spending 20k in this financial climate.

Things will get better though. Batteries will get better and charging points more regularl. It's brilliant that many are switching the more the merrier but it'll take time and it's up to the government to help speed it up but that costs

The charging ports aren't getting better though are they. For it to work pretty much every parking space needs a charger (working) and they are miles off it.

That's on top of having a home one.

I like the idea of them but let's not think the current system is anywhere near good enough. I always look at the services in England and they never have enough charging ports or they are out of order.

People stood about waiting for the ones that are working.

I don't know how people can be arsed with it in its current format.

[Moulin Yarns]

Taken from twitter


Electric Vehicle range seems to be on everybody's mind, but almost no one talks about CONSUMPTION. A car with 300 mile range and 150 kWh battery costs double as much to operate than a car with 300 miles range and a 75 kWh battery. How much energy your EV slurps up per mile matters.

🤔Think of it like this: You wouldn't buy a gas-guzzler just because it has a massive fuel tank, right? The same logic applies to EVs. A car with a 300-mile range might sound dreamy, but if it guzzles down a whopping 150 kWh battery to achieve that, you'll be shelling out double the cash compared to a fuel-sipping EV with the same range but a more modest 75 kWh battery.

🔋Battery size isn't everything. Lugging around a massive battery is like carrying a backpack full of bricks – it weighs you down and burns more energy just to move around. That translates to higher consumption and a heavier dent in your wallet.

⚡️So, what should you be looking for instead of just range? Focus on the kWh/mile. This little number is the true efficiency metric. The lower it is, the less energy your EV needs to travel a mile, and the happier your wallet (and the planet!) will be.

Here are some ways to deal with consumption:

🧸 Go for the Goldilocks battery: Choose a battery size that's just right for your typical travel needs. No need for a marathon runner if you're a daily sprinter.
⚡️ Charge smart: Plug in during off-peak hours to snag lower electricity rates. Charge when you're asleep if you can, and let your EV quietly juice up while you dream.
🧘🏻*♀️Drive chill: Smooth acceleration and gentle braking are your friends. Not only will you feel like a zen master behind the wheel, but you'll also maximize your range and minimize consumption.

So, the next time you're discussing EVs, remember – range is a headline, but consumption is the story.

Go electric ✌️

[LaMotta]

I’m an advocate for EVs as I think my posts on this thread and the one on the PM board show, but comments like this annoy me. People shouldn’t worry about range because on certain occasions the car underestimates the range?

It’s a good thing to counter overly negative takes, but pretending it’s all perfect and there are no downsides to EVs doesn’t help anyone.


The charging ports aren't getting better though are they. For it to work pretty much every parking space needs a charger (working) and they are miles off it.

That's on top of having a home one.

I like the idea of them but let's not think the current system is anywhere near good enough. I always look at the services in England and they never have enough charging ports or they are out of order.

People stood about waiting for the ones that are working.

I don't know how people can be arsed with it in its current format.

:agree: :agree:

Smug EVangelists (see what I did there) do nothing to persuade others that driving a milk float (just kidding) around is a particularly good idea as things stand.

[McSwanky]

I’m an advocate for EVs as I think my posts on this thread and the one on the PM board show, but comments like this annoy me. People shouldn’t worry about range because on certain occasions the car underestimates the range?

It’s a good thing to counter overly negative takes, but pretending it’s all perfect and there are no downsides to EVs doesn’t help anyone.

Nice to hear a realistic bit of chat.

I'd be driving around in an EV now if it made financial sense to me, but:

1. I only buy a car about every 10 years or so - for me, that's more eco-friendly than changing cars every 2 or 3 years whether it's ICE or electric. Last car I bought was 5 years ago, and I was priced out of even looking at electric/hybrid at that point
2. I don't tend to buy new
3. I don't generally drive many miles, apart from if I do a one-off trip to a holiday destination or something

So it feels to me that given the low mileage and high purchase price, it wouldn't make economical sense, even if I was looking to buy another car, to go electric. And whilst I care about the environment, I don't care enough to be thousands of pounds out of pocket.

I'll definitely look at the electric options next time I look at switching cars, but right now I can't see where the value lies. (Other than being able to lord it over others as I will have assumed the lofty moral high ground :wink:)

Oh and on the analogy of people on horses suggesting cars aren't the way forward: the point I was making about it being a crap analogy is that fundamentally electric cars don't do anything better than ICE cars, do they? They don't go faster, they can't travel further. Speed and distance covered are pretty much the two main advantages of a car over a horse, no?

Happy to be corrected on any points above. Hopefully without any condescending comments :greengrin

[nonshinyfinish]

1. I only buy a car about every 10 years or so - for me, that's more eco-friendly than changing cars every 2 or 3 years whether it's ICE or electric.

Agree.


2. I don't tend to buy new

With the caveat that I've never looked closely at used EVs: I think the used market is a bit tricky to navigate at the moment for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as a reasonably new technology EVs are improving quite quickly, so a used EV a few years old may be disproportionately lacking in features in a way that a used ICE car wouldn't – most importantly range and charging speed. Secondly, you'd need to try to determine how much/how gently the battery has been used, as this may mean a lower capacity.

I'd imagine that for a family looking for a second car that's just a runaround there are probably good bargains to be had, but if you're looking for something that would be your only car then it's probably more difficult.


3. I don't generally drive many miles, apart from if I do a one-off trip to a holiday destination or something

So it feels to me that given the low mileage and high purchase price, it wouldn't make economical sense, even if I was looking to buy another car, to go electric. And whilst I care about the environment, I don't care enough to be thousands of pounds out of pocket.

Maybe, it's complicated. Over time the cheaper running costs will balance out the increased purchase price,* but as you say in cases of low mileage that might take a long time. It's also pretty difficult to project when that balancing out would happen, even if you know the up front cost and your average mileage, because multiple factors may change over time:

- Overall cost of electricity (currently gradually falling, but if you'd projected your total cost of ownership based on 2020 electricity prices then you'd be way off right now)
- Continued availability of cheap EV electricity tariffs (my "fuel" costs work out about two pence per mile when I charge at home, but there's no guarantee that those EV tariffs will be around forever)
- Incentives like zero road tax (it's a decent saving right now but obviously can't last forever as the number of EVs increases)

Therefore I'm going to CWG this one and sit on the fence – even if I knew the cost of the cars you were considering and your average mileage, I wouldn't be confident in saying whether it made financial sense or not.


*This 'total cost of ownership' argument also assumes that someone can afford the up-front cost (or can finance it) – it's one of those situations where poorer people can end up paying more because they can't afford an up-front cost that saves money over time.

[hibsbollah]

Nice to hear a realistic bit of chat.

I'd be driving around in an EV now if it made financial sense to me, but:

1. I only buy a car about every 10 years or so - for me, that's more eco-friendly than changing cars every 2 or 3 years whether it's ICE or electric. Last car I bought was 5 years ago, and I was priced out of even looking at electric/hybrid at that point
2. I don't tend to buy new
3. I don't generally drive many miles, apart from if I do a one-off trip to a holiday destination or something

So it feels to me that given the low mileage and high purchase price, it wouldn't make economical sense, even if I was looking to buy another car, to go electric. And whilst I care about the environment, I don't care enough to be thousands of pounds out of pocket.

I'll definitely look at the electric options next time I look at switching cars, but right now I can't see where the value lies. (Other than being able to lord it over others as I will have assumed the lofty moral high ground :wink:)

Oh and on the analogy of people on horses suggesting cars aren't the way forward: the point I was making about it being a crap analogy is that fundamentally electric cars don't do anything better than ICE cars, do they? They don't go faster, they can't travel further. Speed and distance covered are pretty much the two main advantages of a car over a horse, no?

Happy to be corrected on any points above. Hopefully without any condescending comments :greengrin

The purpose of this thread is for folk to share their experiences of EVs. Throwaway comments about taking the 'moral high ground' are totally unfair, to be honest.

Myself and MY have positive experiences of our cars. I don't think it's been condescending or evangelising at all. I think MY signed off with 'Go Electric!' at the end of his post. Which isn't really any more condescending as any of the posts on here on one of the multitude of threads on any other product under discussion; say, air fryers. Some folk like them, some don't.

The advantages of EVs are many, but of course you are leaving out the main one, they don't need petrol and so don't contribute to emissions in that respect. (and yes, they do have an environmental footprint in relation to the build and lithium production, which i think is well understood by most people).

The worst thing about driving EVs is the infrastructure we have to use, ie-the roads; both in terms of surface quality and congestion, which is what drivers of standard emission cars have to deal with too. Its a nightmare out there. That's why I think some of the comments about not buying EVs because the infrastructure isnt good enough yet are misplaced; Let's face it, if you crash landed here on from another planet and took a look at the infrastructure for driving ANY car in the UK, you would say the infrastructure isn't sufficiently developed either! The road network is broken due to decades of under investment on maintenance, decades of ripping the heart of our public transport alternatives, and too many cars being built. EV drivers needing a few thousand more charging points for our needs is a relatively minor problem in comparison.

I still think we missed the boat (pun?) when we didnt invest in monorail and hoverboards.

[Moulin Yarns]

I have a friend who lives in Assynt who has an electric car and has written a blog about it.



https://www.vasten.co.uk/blog/index.php?post/2023/11/07/Six-Months-of-Electric-Driving

[Hibbyradge]

The ICE engine is obviously better just now and they are easier (filled) at the moment than electric. Unfortunately they are helping kill the planet so really must go.

Range anxiety it definitely overplayed . It's also easy though to look down if your lucky enough to have a house with a driveway and afford the huge cost in getting an EV, some people can't begin to think about spending 20k in this financial climate.

Things will get better though. Batteries will get better and charging points more regularl. It's brilliant that many are switching the more the merrier but it'll take time and it's up to the government to help speed it up but that costs

What's the £20k for?

[Stairway 2 7]

What's the £20k for?

An estimate for an EV that can do say 300 miles. I could have said there are many out their that have a car and won't be able to pay 2k in this climate. Mass production will bring down the cost and more and more second hand cars.

My daughter is doing her lessons and I was looking at getting a run around for her to run about in. For under 4k all you can get is a 12 year old leaf that can do about 90 miles

They are the future and they are great but it will take time

[McSwanky]

The purpose of this thread is for folk to share their experiences of EVs. Throwaway comments about taking the 'moral high ground' are totally unfair, to be honest.

Just to clarify, that comment was tongue in cheek. But the thread started as a rant about EVs and had someone comparing people not considering EVs to those who used to ride horses rather than go by car, so hopefully you'll forgive me the throwaway comment.

I'm not on any side of the fence here, other than ensuring that I get value for money out of large ticket purchases, which I think most people can get on board with!

Sent from my YAL-L21 using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

Drove up from Edinburgh to Skye for a 3 day getaway this week. Its barely any different from using a petrol car. Stopped at Pitlochry, the Nae Limits cafe is a favourite stop, just off the motorway, decent food and a couple of fast chargers. An hour stop for food coffee had me back up to full capacity which got us right up to Skye, even on a relatively cold day and with the hilly terrain as you pass Spean Bridge only giving a range of about 170 miles. And once youre on Skye its very well served.

I think a lot of people are put off EVs by the extra time it puts on journey times. But a lot if the time you’d be having pit stops at service stations if you were car driving anyway…its often no difference. In my case it put an extra half an hour on a 6 hour drive. Its still frustrating how many stations are out of order on the way, but there are still multiple options a few miles apart especially if youre using the phone app.

[Moulin Yarns]

Drove up from Edinburgh to Skye for a 3 day getaway this week. Its barely any different from using a petrol car. Stopped at Pitlochry, the Nae Limits cafe is a favourite stop, just off the motorway, decent food and a couple of fast chargers. An hour stop for food coffee had me back up to full capacity which got us right up to Skye, even on a relatively cold day and with the hilly terrain as you pass Spean Bridge only giving a range of about 170 miles. And once youre on Skye its very well served.

I think a lot of people are put off EVs by the extra time it puts on journey times. But a lot if the time you’d be having pit stops at service stations if you were car driving anyway…its often no difference. In my case it put an extra half an hour on a 6 hour drive. Its still frustrating how many stations are out of order on the way, but there are still multiple options a few miles apart especially if youre using the phone app.

Pet peeve, Nae Limits is in Ballinluig, 5 miles south of Pitlochry. 😉

[hibsbollah]

Pet peeve, Nae Limits is in Ballinluig, 5 miles south of Pitlochry. 😉

N’ell thats a weird peeve :faf:
Yes, thats true, and there are other charging options available in the area!

[Moulin Yarns]

N’ell thats a weird peeve :faf:
Yes, thats true, and there are other charging options available in the area!

OK. Put another way, if someone was heading north and saw that as a recommendation for Nae Limits, then they will have missed it. I realise that there are lots of cafes in pitlochry itself, but Nae Limits isn't one of them.

[hibsbollah]

OK. Put another way, if someone was heading north and saw that as a recommendation for Nae Limits, then they will have missed it. I realise that there are lots of cafes in pitlochry itself, but Nae Limits isn't one of them.

You are correct, its near Pitlochry, not in Pitlochry. If anyone is in any doubt im sure they would be using an app to search it out anyway and found the exact location for themselves regardless.

[Pretty Boy]

Range is still an issue, probably more from the point of view of those using electric vehicles for business rather than for more recreational driving.

My mate recently bought a BMW IX3, the advertised range is 285 miles but he says in reality it's closer to 210-220. For a vehicle priced at around the £70K mark that seems frankly rubbish. He has to drive from Nice to Milan twice a month for work and he just won't use it because it necessitates a charging stop both on the way there and the way back. He can use a Volvo XC40, a mild hybrid, from his work car pool and on a full tank of petrol can do the journey there and back with enough fuel left to do his weekly shop and drop his bairn at football training.

I led a project at work a couple of years back looking at replacing all our company vehicles with electric and it just didn't stack up. The direct replacement for our Mercedes Sprinters had a range then of 230 miles but when we tested them over a 72 hour period it was closer to 170-180 with a full load; I think the advertised range has improved to 270 now but that's still not great. Our issue was we have a route from Edinburgh that takes in Aberdeen and areas slightly further north and from Glasgow a route that goes down to Campbeltown. Both would have required the driver to stop and charge and indeed we used the latter route as a test and the driver had to stop and recharge twice. I think the rapid charge time was about 40 minutes for 80% so that's adding a fair chunk on to their day. Probably not an issue if you are toddling off for a tour of the Springbank distillery or to see the fireballs in Stonehaven but when you have limited driving hours and tight delivery windows it becomes an issue. In the end we opted to change our town vehicles but stay with ICE for the longer routes.

I'm sure it will continue to improve and it's something we are keen to revisit in the medium term. For now though issues around range or perception of range will persist. The infrastructure has undoubtedly improved but it's also still nowhere near ready for a mass change to electric.

[hibsbollah]

Range is still an issue, probably more from the point of view of those using electric vehicles for business rather than for more recreational driving.

My mate recently bought a BMW IX3, the advertised range is 285 miles but he says in reality it's closer to 210-220. For a vehicle priced at around the £70K mark that seems frankly rubbish. He has to drive from Nice to Milan twice a month for work and he just won't use it because it necessitates a charging stop both on the way there and the way back. He can use a Volvo XC40, a mild hybrid, from his work car pool and on a full tank of petrol can do the journey there and back with enough fuel left to do his weekly shop and drop his bairn at football training.

I led a project at work a couple of years back looking at replacing all our company vehicles with electric and it just didn't stack up. The direct replacement for our Mercedes Sprinters had a range then of 230 miles but when we tested them over a 72 hour period it was closer to 170-180 with a full load; I think the advertised range has improved to 270 now but that's still not great. Our issue was we have a route from Edinburgh that takes in Aberdeen and areas slightly further north and from Glasgow a route that goes down to Campbeltown. Both would have required the driver to stop and charge and indeed we used the latter route as a test and the driver had to stop and recharge twice. I think the rapid charge time was about 40 minutes for 80% so that's adding a fair chunk on to their day. Probably not an issue if you are toddling off for a tour of the Springbank distillery or to see the fireballs in Stonehaven but when you have limited driving hours and tight delivery windows it becomes an issue. In the end we opted to change our town vehicles but stay with ICE for the longer routes.

I'm sure it will continue to improve and it's something we are keen to revisit in the medium term. For now though issues around range or perception of range will persist. The infrastructure has undoubtedly improved but it's also still nowhere near ready for a mass change to electric.

I think where businesses are concerned and cases where ‘time is money’,(as opposed to a relaxed 3 day window where losing 30 minutes on a six hour drive isn’t really a big deal), your business is probably right not to switch just now.

[LancashireHibby]

Really interesting thread to read as we’re thinking of taking the plunge.

Whenever my wife and I buy a new car, we pay in full and then chuck £50 each a month in to an account ready for the next one. We have a Citroen C1 so extremely economical on fuel, but my 35 mile round trip to crawl to work can cost anything up to £140 a month in fuel. So that’s £240 a month straight away, and our local dealer has got a deal on a 100% electric Citroen eC4 for £280 a month.

I know there’s going to be the outlay for the charger on our drive plus the extra electric costs, but to end up with a brand new car for an extra £40 a month extra seems almost too good to be true?

[Jones28]

Really interesting thread to read as we’re thinking of taking the plunge.

Whenever my wife and I buy a new car, we pay in full and then chuck £50 each a month in to an account ready for the next one. We have a Citroen C1 so extremely economical on fuel, but my 35 mile round trip to crawl to work can cost anything up to £140 a month in fuel. So that’s £240 a month straight away, and our local dealer has got a deal on a 100% electric Citroen eC4 for £280 a month.

I know there’s going to be the outlay for the charger on our drive plus the extra electric costs, but to end up with a brand new car for an extra £40 a month extra seems almost too good to be true?

If it’s at all feasible for you I’d strongly consider looking at solar panels as well.

Home Energy Scotland - I think it’s the energy saving trust in England - have an interest free loan scheme that we took advantage of for ours and next time we change a car we will be looking at electric.

[matty_f]

I agree with that. Its just a matter of changing the way you think about things and planning things in advance. Going electric has been a net stress reducer, for me anyway.

I had to hand my electric car back when I left my old job and so am on a petrol one at the moment, I'll be getting another electric on as soon as I can.

[hibsbollah]

It may seem like a small point but im eating less junk food too; something about those petrol station shops just made me want to buy overpriced crisps and chocolate when i wasnt even hungry, paprika Sensations got me everytime :greengrin

[patch1875]

Wasn’t there a report suggesting people are eating more junk food at service stations because they were hanging about waiting on the car charging.

[Hibbyradge]

Wasn’t there a report suggesting people are eating more junk food at service stations because they were hanging about waiting on the car charging.

No, there wasn't.

:greengrin

[Jones28]

Wasn’t there a report suggesting people are eating more junk food at service stations because they were hanging about waiting on the car charging.

I've done a few long journeys on company time in an electric car and can confirm that yes, they are! The bins around the Tesla chargers I was using were stuffed with coffee cups and KFC rubbish.

[Hibbyradge]

I've done a few long journeys on company time in an electric car and can confirm that yes, they are! The bins around the Tesla chargers I was using were stuffed with coffee cups and KFC rubbish.

I think the phrase, "correlation does not imply causation" applies here.

How many electric cars had used the chargers?

When were the bins last emptied?

How many people were in each car?

How many were adults?

Was the KFC for EV drivers only?

If not, how many people in ICE vehicles visited the KFC?

How many ate in the "restaurant"?

What are the bins like at other KFC outlets?

Exactly how bored am I?

[nonshinyfinish]

Whether it's true or not (I've no idea), it's not really comparable to hibsbollah's petrol station comment – with a petrol car you visit a petrol station every time you fill up. A typical EV driver will only charge at a service station on occasional long trips.

[Jones28]

I think the phrase, "correlation does not imply causation" applies here.

How many electric cars had used the chargers?

When were the bins last emptied?

How many people were in each car?

How many were adults?

Was the KFC for EV drivers only?

If not, how many people in ICE vehicles visited the KFC?

How many ate in the "restaurant"?

What are the bins like at other KFC outlets?

Exactly how bored am I?

To all of the above: Dunno.

With the exception of the last one: not bored enough to go to Charnock Richard Services - the place hope goes to die - and check for yourself. :greengrin

[Hibbyradge]

To all of the above: Dunno.

With the exception of the last one: not bored enough to go to Charnock Richard Services - the place hope goes to die - and check for yourself. :greengrin

I've been! Personally, I've always hated Southwaite services, but I have a soft spot for Knutsford Service Station because of the Ike and Tina Turner connection. :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

I've been! Personally, I've always hated Southwaite services, but I have a soft spot for Knutsford Service Station because of the Ike and Tina Turner connection. :wink:

The westmorland service stations are outstanding!!! Plenty of EV charging points apart from the southbound Tebay.

[Moulin Yarns]

A tip for anyone in the vicinity of the commonwealth pool for up to 4 hours. FREE parking at Pollock Hall of residence and 7x 22kwh double point chargers 45p per unit. I was at Summerhall today and was very happy with the location and convenience.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/aug/26/ev-electric-cars-vehicles-public-charger-deserts-great-britain

Big increase in coverage over the last year, Edinburgh comes out very well as does Scotland compared to the rest of the UK.

[Cooshed Kid]

Not really wishing to challenge the orthodoxy here with my first ever post, but having no range anxiety because of an adequate number of chargers for EVs is all well and good but what about the electricity generation and storage required to provide power to those chargers when you want it? Are you convinced it will be there when you need it?

As the percentage of EVs on the roads increases so does the overall demand for electricity. In some parts of the world (e.g. California, I believe) they are already anticipating issues and threats have been made that EV charging may be limited to certain hours of the day so as not to deny other consumers the electricity they need when the grid is under pressure. Presumably, they'd find a way of switching off any home chargers too. It's all "smart" after all, i.e designed to outsmart us.

It wouldn't be my sole reason for not buying an EV, but I think if I were living in Norway with its abundant hydroelectric power I'd have more confidence in the underlying infrastructure than in the UK. Having just the one source of power for a motor vehicle isn't a brilliant idea IMHO. I'd rather go full ICE, proper petrol-electric hybrid like the Prius or PHEV. At least you then have either full or partial petrol/diesel power without relying entirely on the grid.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not really wishing to challenge the orthodoxy here with my first ever post, but having no range anxiety because of an adequate number of chargers for EVs is all well and good but what about the electricity generation and storage required to provide power to those chargers when you want it? Are you convinced it will be there when you need it?

As the percentage of EVs on the roads increases so does the overall demand for electricity. In some parts of the world (e.g. California, I believe) they are already anticipating issues and threats have been made that EV charging may be limited to certain hours of the day so as not to deny other consumers the electricity they need when the grid is under pressure. Presumably, they'd find a way of switching off any home chargers too. It's all "smart" after all, i.e designed to outsmart us.

It wouldn't be my sole reason for not buying an EV, but I think if I were living in Norway with its abundant hydroelectric power I'd have more confidence in the underlying infrastructure than in the UK. Having just the one source of power for a motor vehicle isn't a brilliant idea IMHO. I'd rather go full ICE, proper petrol-electric hybrid like the Prius or PHEV. At least you then have either full or partial petrol/diesel power without relying entirely on the grid.

There are already things that help to ensure adequate supply, almost all home charging is done overnight on a cheaper tariff and there are chargers at motorway service stations that cost more at peak time.

[Keith_M]

This is a recent article on how environmentally friendly Electric Vehicle batteries actually are.

https://www.greencars.com/greencars-101/environmental-impact-of-ev-batteries


Before anybody take this the wrong way, I'm not backing the oil industry or claiming that we don't need to look for better alternatives, I'm just not 100% convinced that we've found a truly environmentally friendly alternative... at least not yet.

[Stairway 2 7]

This is a recent article on how environmentally friendly Electric Vehicle batteries actually are.

https://www.greencars.com/greencars-101/environmental-impact-of-ev-batteries


Before anybody take this the wrong way, I'm not backing the oil industry or claiming that we don't need to look for better alternatives, I'm just not 100% convinced that we've found a truly environmentally friendly alternative... at least not yet.

I don't think anyone says its environmentally friendly, the devastation mines cause is brutal. Some of the electricity to fill the cars is from fossil fuels too. I think the fact is it's infinitely better than what we are doing now which is extracting oil and gas and burning it into the atmosphere.

Global warming is the biggest danger facing the world and electric cars can help achieve net zero better than just about any single change. Like nuclear its not perfect and hopefully the future will give us better alternatives but it's a world better than burning fossil fuels

[McSwanky]

Is it just me, or are the used EV prices falling enormously at the moment? We're looking to replace our reliable old 2010 Renault Clio (yes, reliable and Renault in the same sentence) and I was surprised to find that some 3 year old EVs are just about in our price range now....

I'm guessing it's just due to saturation of the market, and new prices dropping? Or am I missing something?

Anyone got any thoughts on a decent, cheapish 3 year old EV? A pal just bought a used Ioniq (38kwh) and is delighted with it...

[Paulie Walnuts]

Is it just me, or are the used EV prices falling enormously at the moment? We're looking to replace our reliable old 2010 Renault Clio (yes, reliable and Renault in the same sentence) and I was surprised to find that some 3 year old EVs are just about in our price range now....

I'm guessing it's just due to saturation of the market, and new prices dropping? Or am I missing something?

Anyone got any thoughts on a decent, cheapish 3 year old EV? A pal just bought a used Ioniq (38kwh) and is delighted with it...

I bought a 2020 Mini Cooper SE Level 3 which is the highest spec version. Leather heated seats, Harman Kardon sound system, pan sunroof etc. think I paid £17900 and it had just short of 10k miles.

The big downsides are that it’s undoubtedly a small car (although likely not THAT much smaller than a clio) and the range is 130 miles or so. But other than that it’s an absolutely excellent car and I really can’t fault anything about it. I only use it for city driving and do about 6k miles a year so the range is no issue for me. Costs about £4 to fully charge it at Gogarburn (i don’t have a home charger but I’d imagine it’d be similar at home) and about £10 at a public charging point.

Driving about town I find it difficult to drop below 4.5 miles per kw/h and rarely go above 5 miles per kw/h.

If you’re not bothered for it being absolutely top of the line, you can get the level 1 or level 2 versions for about 14-15k.

[nonshinyfinish]

Is it just me, or are the used EV prices falling enormously at the moment? We're looking to replace our reliable old 2010 Renault Clio (yes, reliable and Renault in the same sentence) and I was surprised to find that some 3 year old EVs are just about in our price range now....

I'm guessing it's just due to saturation of the market, and new prices dropping? Or am I missing something?

Anyone got any thoughts on a decent, cheapish 3 year old EV? A pal just bought a used Ioniq (38kwh) and is delighted with it...

Would it be your only car? If so, how often do you drive a long way?

The post above describes the ideal situation for a cheaper EV with fairly modest range – a runabout that never does long journeys.

An occasional long journey in (say) a 150-mile range EV would be doable although annoying, but you wouldn't want to do it a lot. I don't know what's currently out there in your price range, but your intended use of the car will determine what represents a usable range for you.

[McSwanky]

Would it be your only car? If so, how often do you drive a long way?

The post above describes the ideal situation for a cheaper EV with fairly modest range – a runabout that never does long journeys.

An occasional long journey in (say) a 150-mile range EV would be doable although annoying, but you wouldn't want to do it a lot. I don't know what's currently out there in your price range, but your intended use of the car will determine what represents a usable range for you.

We have another car (petrol Ibiza) and although it's small as well, it does us ok for longer journeys.

In general, journeys are local, but I'd be wanting to use the EV for the odd Glasgow trip or the likes. Longer journeys I'd weigh up once I had a feel for the EV with charge speeds etc. Range wise I'd say as long as I could get to Glasgow and back on a full charge on a 'bad' day, that would cover 95% of my journeys.

Sent from my Pixel 8a using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

I think the MGs are a bargain can get the MG5 estate 250 miles range, 20k miles, 2 years old for under £15k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202408203095805?sort=relevance&twcs=true&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Electric&make=MG&postcode=EH11%202HY&price-to=17000&year-to=2022&fromsra

Or the suv ZS 200 mile range, 7k miles, 2 year old for about the same. Obviously cheaper with more miles or a year or two older
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405310258692?sort=relevance&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Electric&postcode=EH11%202HY&price-to=17000&year-to=2022&fromsra

[Moulin Yarns]

We have another car (petrol Ibiza) and although it's small as well, it does us ok for longer journeys.

In general, journeys are local, but I'd be wanting to use the EV for the odd Glasgow trip or the likes. Longer journeys I'd weigh up once I had a feel for the EV with charge speeds etc. Range wise I'd say as long as I could get to Glasgow and back on a full charge on a 'bad' day, that would cover 95% of my journeys.

Sent from my Pixel 8a using Tapatalk

I would look at the official range and assume you will get 75% of that for a guide to actual range on a used car, you don't know how it was driven before. If you find you do better then it's a bonus.

[Moulin Yarns]

The different charging points and their apps.

Back from a holiday that took in Yorkshire, the cotswolds and the lake district. I now have 9 different charging apps on my phone.

What is wrong with making them all contactless payments??

On the plus side, the huge numbers of charging points everywhere.

[LancashireHibby]

The different charging points and their apps.

Back from a holiday that took in Yorkshire, the cotswolds and the lake district. I now have 9 different charging apps on my phone.

What is wrong with making them all contactless payments??

On the plus side, the huge numbers of charging points everywhere.

Think I’m up to 12 different ones now. Still getting used to the public ones and make sure I’m only adding the bare minimum to get me home given it’s more than 10 times the cost of a home charge.

Week before last was the first where I’d done a full week just pure commuting on one charge (200ish miles over the five days) and it cost me £3.17 to do a full charge. Absolute witchcraft.