The farce of Banning games from streaming / tv at 3pm in the UK

[Viva_Palmeiras]

So rules prevent the showing of games at 3pm in the UK but are available to ROW. Makes sense you want folks to attend where possible.

However Technology has a way around that AND with the advent of devices - folks can watch without subscribing.

Sky and others must know the volumes concerned. Advertisers just need viewers - dont care if they are subscribers I imagine.

So given all this are subscribers being taken for a ride and is it realistic to a ban on broadcast when technically it would appear to be unenforceable - some clubs even promote the tools to do this.

A pundit (could have been abroad mind) talked of watching a game at the weekend that should not have been possible to watch from the UK.

Is it just in the Uk we have this shenanigans?

[Trinity Hibee]

Nowadays I don’t think it is right. I can understand why it’s in place but as you say, there are so many ways to watch games online now. The TV firms need to get up to speed and offer single games or other packages so people can watch games.

I actually really like the way Amazon prime offer their game weeks. Multiple games on at a time on a streaming platform and it’s really good coverage. I’m not keen on pay sky level per month but I’d happily pay more than I currently do for streaming services if it meant getting more football on a legal and reliable stream

[Just_Jimmy]

The US "blackout" games in their major sports, in certain areas depending on tickets sold.

Here, theres a number of issues. The move away from sky (as an example) as the single provider which was deemed great for the subscribers at the time, is nonsense. All it does is ensure people are paying three or four times for the same amount of games instead of a single flat fee.

Secondly, it's farcical that I can't purchase a Hibs season ticket to watch Hibs games away from Easter Road. Yet, Hibs could be playing and I have Palace v Bournemouth on TV...

All games at all times should be available in whatever package people want to pay for.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[Carheenlea]

For me, the main focus of attention for football at 3m on a Saturday should be within the stadiums themselves, and not within the confines of a pub or front room.

Keep it a live sporting event, something special to look forward to going to see your team in the environment of live football theatre on a Saturday afternoon.

Football is on TV the other 6 days of the week, is that not enough?

I say keep the cameras away from Saturday afternoons and keep it a day for the football supporters.

[Since90+2]

For me, the main focus of attention for football at 3m on a Saturday should be within the stadiums themselves, and not within the confines of a pub or front room.

Keep it a live sporting event, something special to look forward to going to see your team in the environment of live football theatre on a Saturday afternoon.

Football is on TV the other 6 days of the week, is that not enough?

I say keep the cameras away from Saturday afternoons and keep it a day for the football supporters.

Totally agree.

Football is already on 7 days a week, on a Saturday you get 12.30 game and then another at 5.15. do we really need 3pm Saturday too?

[JeMeSouviens]

For me, the main focus of attention for football at 3m on a Saturday should be within the stadiums themselves, and not within the confines of a pub or front room.

Keep it a live sporting event, something special to look forward to going to see your team in the environment of live football theatre on a Saturday afternoon.

Football is on TV the other 6 days of the week, is that not enough?

I say keep the cameras away from Saturday afternoons and keep it a day for the football supporters.

It's fantasy land, but I'd much rather the clubs were forced to play the vast majority of fixtures at 3pm on a Saturday and televise the lot rather than keep them off the telly but have them spread all over the place.

[Bobo]

I'd love to see what the majority of armchair viewers would do if there was no Internet and only two TV channels available?

Poor wee lambs would never survive!

[He's here!]

It's fantasy land, but I'd much rather the clubs were forced to play the vast majority of fixtures at 3pm on a Saturday and televise the lot rather than keep them off the telly but have them spread all over the place.

All weekend football should revert to 3pm Saturday kick-offs, including Scottish Cup ties. Midweek should be used only for European games, Scottish Cup replays and League Cup ties.

Sounds luddite to those who've grown up with access to seven day a week football coverage as the norm, but as someone who remembers the very first Sunday games coming in back in the 80s I could see the wall to wall saturation far enough. I hated Sunday kick-offs back then and I still don't like them. Their introduction opened the door to ever-increasing exploitation of fans who still want to go to games but are expected to travel daft distances at daft times.

[hibsbollah]

For me, the main focus of attention for football at 3m on a Saturday should be within the stadiums themselves, and not within the confines of a pub or front room.

Keep it a live sporting event, something special to look forward to going to see your team in the environment of live football theatre on a Saturday afternoon.

Football is on TV the other 6 days of the week, is that not enough?

I say keep the cameras away from Saturday afternoons and keep it a day for the football supporters.

Absolutely agree.

[He's here!]

I'd love to see what the majority of armchair viewers would do if there was no Internet and only two TV channels available?

Poor wee lambs would never survive!

If we reverted to highlights only packages on Saturday night/Sunday afteroon and live coverage only of the Scottish Cup/FA Cup final (plus European finals) a lot of folk would likely come to realise they don't need their live football fix as much as they think they do and find something more constructive/wholesome to do instead ;-)

[hibsbollah]

If we reverted to highlights only packages on Saturday night/Sunday afteroon and live coverage only of the Scottish Cup/FA Cup final (plus European finals) a lot of folk would likely come to realise they don't need their live football fix as much as they think they do and find something more constructive/wholesome to do instead ;-)

You might also find the quality of the tv product actually improves, in the case of bbc Scotland, and the unnecessary hyperbole and commercialism around every weekend reduces, in the case of Sky. As usual, German football is the model to look at. The live experience rules.

[Speedy]

I think the 3pm Saturday blackout should stay.

But I am against a blackout of domestic games due to whatever other european or more important game is on the tv that evening.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I guess my point is, if there’s a blackout then it needs to be enforceable.i mibbie need to speak to CurvyNisbet to see thr practicalities of this… but yes I like the idea of a blackout if the game is a sellout as per the US.

[Victor]

My issue is with those who watch on fire sticks (illegally in many instances). By doing this the Club loses out on income. Not everyone can get to matches every week, therefore I think the Hibs TV International is a compromise solution. By paying £18.00 a month and utilising a VPN Saturday 3pm matches can be watched live. This way the Club still gets money and fans who cannot get to matches get to follow their team.

[Bridge hibs]

I'd love to see what the majority of armchair viewers would do if there was no Internet and only two TV channels available?

Poor wee lambs would never survive!

And a coat hanger as an Ariel

[jacomo]

If we reverted to highlights only packages on Saturday night/Sunday afteroon and live coverage only of the Scottish Cup/FA Cup final (plus European finals) a lot of folk would likely come to realise they don't need their live football fix as much as they think they do and find something more constructive/wholesome to do instead ;-)


100%

The Saturday 3pm blackout was brought in to protect attendances, yet all the evidence suggests that tv coverage drives attendance up, rather than hurting it.

Counter intuitive, but there’s evidence on this across all sorts of live entertainment.

[green day]

It's fantasy land, but I'd much rather the clubs were forced to play the vast majority of fixtures at 3pm on a Saturday and televise the lot rather than keep them off the telly but have them spread all over the place.

DAZN do live coverage of 7 out of 10 Serie A matches every week, this is within Italy as well as the rest of the world.

These are matches which are (mostly) on at the traditional times. It has has been ongoing for a while and has had negligible impact on crowds.

I may be wrong, but I think similar happens in Norway, and they make a lot more from the broadcast deal than us.

The reason we have issues in the UK is the EPL are protective of their "product" so they can sell it all over the world - which is, ironically, how the IPTV providers get their Saturday 3pm EPL streams...............

[WhileTheChief..]

I'd love to see what the majority of armchair viewers would do if there was no Internet and only two TV channels available?

Poor wee lambs would never survive!

Same as back in the 80s and watch something else on the TV no doubt.

[Hibs4185]

If the ground is rubbish, atmosphere rubbish and food offering rubbish, people will stay home and watch it.

If we offer a tv deal for every game but make sure the stadium experience is worth visiting for, then you get the best of both worlds.

Can’t make it? Watch it at home or work.

Can make it? Maybe you could watch in the comfort of your own home but if the stadium experience etc is attractive enough then why stay at home?

I think the alcohol ban plays a big part in this and I think Hibs are onto the stadium experience with hospitality, Albion bar, TV’s etc.

We need to get this right before offering pay per view for every game or attendances will be hit

[Viva_Palmeiras]

DAZN do live coverage of 7 out of 10 Serie A matches every week, this is within Italy as well as the rest of the world.

These are matches which are (mostly) on at the traditional times. It has has been ongoing for a while and has had negligible impact on crowds.

I may be wrong, but I think similar happens in Norway, and they make a lot more from the broadcast deal than us.

The reason we have issues in the UK is the EPL are protective of their "product" so they can sell it all over the world - which is, ironically, how the IPTV providers get their Saturday 3pm EPL streams...............

and I think yes this is the crux of the matter. I’d love to understand the numbers that opt for that surely the broadcasters will have an idea - it would never be published. but I think the they’ve got too greedy - what is it ViaPlay, TNT, ESPN, Sky, Amazon and your teams’ tv if you want full coverage (I’ve probably missed some) what does that amount to? It’s nuts. I don’t but can see why some go down the less kosher routes. In a cost of living crisis surely number will increase?

[Forza Fred]

In Oz every A league game is live on a streaming service (Paramount) and some are also covered live by free to air channel 10.

Used to be all live on Foxtel for years until they lost the contract.

[green day]

and I think yes this is the crux of the matter. I’d love to understand the numbers that opt for that surely the broadcasters will have an idea - it would never be published. but I think the they’ve got too greedy - what is it ViaPlay, TNT, ESPN, Sky, Amazon and your teams’ tv if you want full coverage (I’ve probably missed some) what does that amount to? It’s nuts. I don’t but can see why some go down the less kosher routes. In a cost of living crisis surely number will increase?

Thing is mate, the genie is now out the bottle - I dont know one football fan who doesnt have IPTV, and its not just for the fitba either.

I know its illegal, but if I paid for all the sport plus Apple TV, Paramount etc etc for series I would probably by upwards of £150 a month in subscriptions.

[Moulin Yarns]

Thing is mate, the genie is now out the bottle - I dont know one football fan who doesnt have IPTV, and its not just for the fitba either.

I know its illegal, but if I paid for all the sport plus Apple TV, Paramount etc etc for series I would probably by upwards of £150 a month in subscriptions.

Yoohoo 👋 I don't have IPTV. No interest in it.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Thing is mate, the genie is now out the bottle - I dont know one football fan who doesnt have IPTV, and its not just for the fitba either.

I know its illegal, but if I paid for all the sport plus Apple TV, Paramount etc etc for series I would probably by upwards of £150 a month in subscriptions.

Which is mental. And why I think either way football is being put out of the reach of many of the punters for whom the game used to revolve around.

[Paul1642]

Which is mental. And why I think either way football is being put out of the reach of many of the punters for whom the game used to revolve around.

This is the reason why I have zero qualms about using IPTV. It’s what the broadcasters deserve for making it so ridiculously expensive to watch it.

Also It would be interesting to know if the broadcasters include IPTV viewers in the numbers they provide to advertisers.

[Phil MaGlass]

I'd love to see what the majority of armchair viewers would do if there was no Internet and only two TV channels available?

Poor wee lambs would never survive!

I think before internet and only two channels Hibs and Scottish fitba crowds were lower than what they are now.
I have IPTV, I miss a few games every season due to games being changed for tv etc, its just not worth it for me to travel. I dont blame folk using IPTV.

[matty_f]

I think before internet and only two channels Hibs and Scottish fitba crowds were lower than what they are now.
I have IPTV, I miss a few games every season due to games being changed for tv etc, its just not worth it for me to travel. I dont blame folk using IPTV.

Personally, I think the impact of TV broadcasts on live matches is minimal, especially when there's a team worth watching.

I am a big supporter of showing the games on TV. I can't always make it to away games but never want to miss them, so having a mechanism to watch live is the next best thing. I would 100% choose to be there in person though, there's no contest.

Having a good "product" and showing it to the widest audience possible is the way to grow the game and attract more supporters. Clubs miss our on revenue by not being able to show the games and we're so backwards with our approach to televising games we negotiate deals that result in us not showing some of the league's best fixtures live.

Instead we Rangers and Celtic away games each week, and their cup games while they're both in the cups. All that does is perpetuate the myth that there are only two teams worth watching in Scotland. It's harmful and way behind the times.

Someone mentioned Amazon and their coverage, that was excellent - pick a game and watch it, on a high quality reliable steam that left me wanting to watch more.

TV will never replace going to the games, we saw that through covid. Get them broadcast and let people watch.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

So with Sky bumping a showcase Scottish football derby - where does this leave this farce?

Can Hearts / Hibs broadcast?

If so then even if only to international subscribers - there’s a way around that.

If not - Periscope was used the the past.

Would be interesting to see what it would take for their bubble burst and revenue model blow up during a cost of living crisis.

Will increased piracy significantly dent their profits?

Or will as I suspect sponsorship trump all and like other models before them not need to rely on subscription at all? If thr whats its league can be free to view then it’s absolutely all about the numbers for advertisers.

Question is when and if disruption will blow away this revenue generating model?

Sky must have this option covered tho.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

In a showcase game for Scottish football that will likely sellout should we not be asking deeper questions of our broadcasters?

Marketing used to be about the “4-5 Ps” Sky is effectively removing one or the Ps - “Promotion” from the marketing mix. Noticeable keeping the Uglies in their place. From a TV perspective - How would kids know about another Derby outside the uglies

Closed shop. No one raises an eyebrow. We know our place. On repeat. Quite perplexing.

[Paul1642]

Who sets the no 3pm rule? Can the Scottish FA change this regardless of what the rest of the UK does?

If so Say GTF to sky, BT and the rest and set up a SPFL streaming service with all 456 games shown, and have annual, monthly and PPV options and make it available to pubs at increased rates.

If we were getting a decent deal from SKY I’d say it’s not worth the risk but we are getting crap money from them as a league and a crap overpriced product as fans.

With us showing 3pm games and England not it wouldn’t even surprise me if a few pubs down there took the option of having the occasional 3pm Scottish football shown.

[B.H.F.C]

In a showcase game for Scottish football that will likely sellout should we not be asking deeper questions of our broadcasters?

Marketing used to be about the “4-5 Ps” Sky is effectively removing one or the Ps - “Promotion” from the marketing mix. Noticeable keeping the Uglies in their place. From a TV perspective - How would kids know about another Derby outside the uglies

Closed shop. No one raises an eyebrow. We know our place. On repeat. Quite perplexing.

It’s not the broadcaster that needs the questions asked of them. It’s the daft tender that was put out which only allows them to visit a ground four times.

The broadcaster is then going to do what makes them the most money and showing Celtic or Rangers at Tynecastle will get them more viewers than when we visit.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It’s not the broadcaster that needs the questions asked of them. It’s the daft tender that was put out which only allows them to visit a ground four times.

The broadcaster is then going to do what makes them the most money and showing Celtic or Rangers at Tynecastle will get them more viewers than when we visit.

If that is the deal and the deal means we can showcase the product then that needs looked at.

They’d hide behind some thing like commercial confidentiality but supporters really do take the hit for the lack of transparency.

[jacomo]

Who sets the no 3pm rule? Can the Scottish FA change this regardless of what the rest of the UK does?

If so Say GTF to sky, BT and the rest and set up a SPFL streaming service with all 456 games shown, and have annual, monthly and PPV options and make it available to pubs at increased rates.

If we were getting a decent deal from SKY I’d say it’s not worth the risk but we are getting crap money from them as a league and a crap overpriced product as fans.

With us showing 3pm games and England not it wouldn’t even surprise me if a few pubs down there took the option of having the occasional 3pm Scottish football shown.


I’m sure they would.

My point above is that traditionally it was assumed that tv coverage hurts live attendance. In reality it seems that the opposite is true - more coverage means more profile and interest, and more people coming to live events.

Scottish football needs to do what it can to raise its profile.

[nonshinyfinish]

So with Sky bumping a showcase Scottish football derby - where does this leave this farce?

Can Hearts / Hibs broadcast?

If so then even if only to international subscribers - there’s a way around that.

If not - Periscope was used the the past.

If Sky don't select it than the home team can choose to use one of their PPV slots (can't remember how many you're allowed per season – maybe five?). I assume Hearts will do this.

Hibs TV always have games for international subscribers provided there is a video feed for them to use – i.e. a tv feed from a broadcaster (even if it's not on tv in the UK) or the home club themselves.

The Periscope derbies were midweek games that fell foul of UEFA's blackout*, because they clashed with Champion's League games, so weren't televised in any way and therefore there was no feed for Hibs TV (or IPTV etc) to pick up.


*now UEFA's blackout rules are properly craven. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the UK Saturday 3 pm blackout, the original intention at least was good – try to protect the attendances of small/lower-league clubs from losing fans to watch EPL games on tv. The intention of the UEFA rule is to protect the tv income of the wealthy elite from losing even a few pennies because a few "legacy fans" might prefer to watch their own team play a sold-out derby with a 150-year history. Pricks.

[RoxburghHibs]

Also It would be interesting to know if the broadcasters include IPTV viewers in the numbers they provide to advertisers.


When you watch an illegal stream, on your Firestick device for example, the stream is hosted on servers that are not maintained by VirginmediaO2, Sky or HibsTV etc.

So basically these companies have no way to know how many people are streaming their channels - so no they won't count these as viewing figures.

The madness is I saw a post on here one Saturday complaining about "HibsTV streams" freezing - even though these were illegal streams and people who were using and had paid for HibsTV services were fine.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

The madness is I saw a post on here one Saturday complaining about "HibsTV streams" freezing - even though these were illegal streams and people who were using and had paid for HibsTV services were fine.

That's the gamble with IPTV, always amazes me when folk complain that their picture isn't perfect.

[TrinityHFC]

That's the gamble with IPTV, always amazes me when folk complain that their picture isn't perfect.

I think, for whatever reason, Hibs TV is a bit worse than other streaming services. Those paying for Hibs TV international direct, whether genuinely abroad or not, get a fairly mixed service.

On IPTV the Hibs TV feed suffers more issues than most channels you can view on those services.

There is something in there that causes different people to get a different result and it does not seem to as simple as having a fast and reliable connection. Don’t think they’re ever been much appetite to figure it out though and generally the users with issues are directed back to their own set up.

Of course, if using through IPTV then tough….

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I think, for whatever reason, Hibs TV is a bit worse than other streaming services. Those paying for Hibs TV international direct, whether genuinely abroad or not, get a fairly mixed service.

On IPTV the Hibs TV feed suffers more issues than most channels you can view on those services.

There is something in there that causes different people to get a different result and it does not seem to as simple as having a fast and reliable connection. Don’t think they’re ever been much appetite to figure it out though and generally the users with issues are directed back to their own set up.

Of course, if using through IPTV then tough….

Aye, so, that's the gamble then?

[TrinityHFC]

Aye, so, that's the gamble then?

For those just using IPTV, absolutely.

[Centre Hawf]

I think, for whatever reason, Hibs TV is a bit worse than other streaming services. Those paying for Hibs TV international direct, whether genuinely abroad or not, get a fairly mixed service.

On IPTV the Hibs TV feed suffers more issues than most channels you can view on those services.

There is something in there that causes different people to get a different result and it does not seem to as simple as having a fast and reliable connection. Don’t think they’re ever been much appetite to figure it out though and generally the users with issues are directed back to their own set up.

Of course, if using through IPTV then tough….

Anecdotal because every IPTV is different I guess, but I don't think it's any worse than the other club specific channels in our league, I tried watching Hearts/Ross County the other week when we were off and was greeted with the Kilmarnock game instead. The worst channel for me at times is probably Premier Sports.

The problem is these club tv servers are probably ran by people who just tick boxes to turn it on and hope it's correctly running as they'll mostly be making sure their Sky and TNT streams work, so when Hibs TV goes down the speed to get it back up is probably a crawl. But as you say it's IPTV so tough.

[green day]

I think, for whatever reason, Hibs TV is a bit worse than other streaming services. Those paying for Hibs TV international direct, whether genuinely abroad or not, get a fairly mixed service.

On IPTV the Hibs TV feed suffers more issues than most channels you can view on those services.

There is something in there that causes different people to get a different result and it does not seem to as simple as having a fast and reliable connection. Don’t think they’re ever been much appetite to figure it out though and generally the users with issues are directed back to their own set up.

Of course, if using through IPTV then tough….

Not on my provider.

I think a lot of people also discount the fallibility of their internet connection - my android box is connected via ethernet directly to my virgin box, and the stability is fantastic.

On my IPTV, Hibs, Hearts, Celtic etc tv doesnt come on til about 10 mins pre ko, then its fine all the way thru.

Very occasional momentary freezes, but nothing to write home about, and thats 4 years with the same provider.

[blackpoolhibs]

On IPTV i've no idea who the main people are who distribute it to others who then dress it up to each country's spec, but my suspicion is it comes from china.

I bought a sub with 12 months from alibaba tv and vod, and there is every country in the worlds tv there.

I've been running it through smarters pro and tivimate since xmas and i have to say it is amazing, never misses a beat at all, never seen it buffer once since i got it.

Now i could be wrong, but this is where ithink it originates from, how i've no idea but i think i could have missed out the middle man.

And all that for 25 dollars. :wink:

[xbar81]

I can see the situation changing in a few short years, as in games will be permitted at 3pm on Saturday on non illegal streams.

I think it's a myth that it affects crowds tbh. Season ticket holders will still be there anyway, fans who like going to games won't just suddenly think about not going cause it's on the telly - and 3pm is a good time for travelling.

Perhaps some fans don't attend tv games due to the kick off times. Imagine if you have to get to some away ground on a sunday for 12.30ko...you can see why those fans might just say "ah screw it,, ill just watch it on tv". That wouldn't apply to sat 3pm games.

[McD]

I can see the situation changing in a few short years, as in games will be permitted at 3pm on Saturday on non illegal streams.

I think it's a myth that it affects crowds tbh. Season ticket holders will still be there anyway, fans who like going to games won't just suddenly think about not going cause it's on the telly - and 3pm is a good time for travelling.

Perhaps some fans don't attend tv games due to the kick off times. Imagine if you have to get to some away ground on a sunday for 12.30ko...you can see why those fans might just say "ah screw it,, ill just watch it on tv". That wouldn't apply to sat 3pm games.



I agree that it will likely change in the near-ish future.


I believe it’s not really the crowds of the live tv match that the rule is trying to protect, it’s the crowds at lower levels. Someone who might normally go to see Tewkesbury rovers or Montrose decides to give it a miss as Liverpool vs arsenal or Hibs vs Celtic is on tv at the same time, that’s the thought process, rightly or wrongly.

[xbar81]

I agree that it will likely change in the near-ish future.


I believe it’s not really the crowds of the live tv match that the rule is trying to protect, it’s the crowds at lower levels. Someone who might normally go to see Tewkesbury rovers or Montrose decides to give it a miss as Liverpool vs arsenal or Hibs vs Celtic is on tv at the same time, that’s the thought process, rightly or wrongly.


ah i hadn't thought of it that way. good point.

[McD]

ah i hadn't thought of it that way. good point.



Tbh, I think it’s still likely to change, money talks, and clubs will always seek ways to increase their money coming in, and their brand awareness.

All the illegal streaming has opened a Pandora’s box, clubs will be looking abroad at the types of media deals to be found.

The US sports markets are complex, but the general likelihood is that you can watch your team any time they play (there are occasional exceptions I think)

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Maybe the way forward is a like a pick and mix.

So you pay your subscription (a single fee covering multiple providers/broadcaster) in return you get access to games that are provided - perhaps there’s a cap or some tiering of Cat A, B, C games. Actual Viewing is totted up across the suppliers and divvied up.

is there actually someone who buys all the possible football subscriptions at max price? What would that even look like? Horrendous I imagine.

[xbar81]

Maybe the way forward is a like a pick and mix.

So you pay your subscription (a single fee covering multiple providers/broadcaster) in return you get access to games that are provided - perhaps there’s a cap or some tiering of Cat A, B, C games. Actual Viewing is totted up across the suppliers and divvied up.

is there actually someone who buys all the possible football subscriptions at max price? What would that even look like? Horrendous I imagine.

Pre broadband the model would be very different. I doubt anyone ever considered BUYING all the channels you could possibly receive!
I've found some nice ones online that get the English Prem at 3pm. I often also use it for some of the sky/tnt games too just to get away from the female commentators.