Managers: How Long Before You Criticize?

[Dashing Bob S]

A general question, really. Personally, I think it's laughable people are calling for Montgomery to be sacked, even though there are obvious grounds for concern.

My own preferred style is back them unreservedly for 12 months, then assess to determine whether there has been a discernible improvement. I backed Johnson for this period -with the usual reservations - but then was a strong advocate for him moving on. I'm behind Montgomery. Whether his system of play will work in our game and with our personnel is open to question. But I'll keep my counsel until this time next year.

[truehibernian]

Emotive stuff after a derby defeat but to ask for a sacking of a manager who hasn’t even had three or four windows to bring in players, introduce developing talent out on loan just now, and build his own side is the sad sign of the times DBS - utter madness and knee jerk. With the proposed investment on the horizon included, you have to give him time and by that I mean a good couple of seasons and transfer windows.

[BoomtownHibees]

He should be open to criticism after results/performances like last night regardless of how long he’s been in the job but to be calling for his head already is madness imo

[Gatecrasher]

Emotive stuff after a derby defeat but to ask for a sacking of a manager who hasn’t even had three or four windows to bring in players, introduce developing talent out on loan just now, and build his own side is the sad sign of the times DBS - utter madness and knee jerk. With the proposed investment on the horizon included, you have to give him time and by that I mean a good couple of seasons and transfer windows.

Three or four windows :hilarious

Our managers are lucky if they get about half that.

Look I think it's OK to criticise the manager, we have been woeful for weeks and there's no sign of improvement. He deserves time to bring some players in and address the obvious shortcomings that no other manager seemed to want to address. But for me, unless NM becomes a successful manager with us there's always going to be the question about whether we should have went for McInnes, for the moment the answer is yes we should have.

[Skol]

I am generally similar to you, albeit I admit with maloney I changed my mind much sooner.

Managers deserve a chance and time in the job. We ended the Ross period too early and then suffered with maloney taking us backwards. Johnson had ups and downs but had to go given the league start albeit we had the luzern performance knowing what was possible.

For maloney I hated going knowing how we would play and would never look like scoring. I don’t have that feeling under Montgomery. I seem to be in a minority but I had a different view of last nights game. Yes there were some elements that were not good, but it wasn’t all negative. The late goal coming from a poor error though is clouding some people’s judgement. People who didn’t want Montgomery in the first place and want him out.

[Trinity Hibee]

Realistically I think you should see significant improvement within 9 months of a manager coming in. NM needs the Jan window and he should get the summer.

I get people’s frustrations though as we seem to be saying this every year and there is no improvement

[USA_Hibee]

I always like to think of Arteta. Arsenal fans were calling for his head, he was given time to build his team and now look at them.

[neil7908]

He should be open to criticism after results/performances like last night regardless of how long he’s been in the job but to be calling for his head already is madness imo

I have no problem with criticising managers early in their tenure. Can't recall what game it was but we were 2 up under Monty a few weeks back at ER, and he made a few subs that completely unsettled us, and we drew 2-2. He was naive and 100% deserved to be critised for that.

But yeah, if we are talking about the sack, unless our form is disastrous, managers should get a couple of transfer windows before any serious pressure starts to build n

[Trinity Hibee]

I always like to think of Arteta. Arsenal fans were calling for his head, he was given time to build his team and now look at them.

That was admirable by Arsenal but very much against the grain in football world, rightly or wrongly.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I wouldn’t say there’s a defined time.

It probably all depends on circumstances. What kind of squad have they inherited, how were we doing before they came in, what have the results been like, what have the performances been like that, how many calamities have they had etc.

Maloney for example only got 19 games. He got a transfer window but he came in so close to it and at that point in time it appears he wasn’t getting all that much input into who was coming in during it. I still think it was the right time to sack him though.

More specifically with Monty, imo he took over an alright team but not a particularly good one. We’d had a few decent results already before he took over. We’ve threw away quite a few leads, blew a massive opportunity to reach a a cup final and had a few absolute horror shows in terms of results and performances.

I’d argue everyone should get one window, but after that, I think they need to be showing signs of what they’re trying to do and improvement. If they’re not, then I think it’s fair enough that questions should be asked, I don’t buy into the idea we need to give someone 3 or 4 windows, which equates to 2 full years, before we make a judgement. If they’re crap then the call needs to be made much earlier than 2 years down the line.

[GreenCastle]

Fans asking for him to be sacked are in the minority but he definitely is open to criticism and with his subs, team selections, stubborn 4-4-2 and not winning derbies or semi finals or even games against teams with less budget he will get fans asking questions / debating his tactics and decision making.

It all abit Groundhog Day - this isn’t a time to experiment with fancy free kicks and corner routines. Maloney, LJ and NM have all fallen into the trap of trying things with us which seem experimental.

Just do the basics and win games and the fancy football can follow. It’s Scottish football and our players are limited so play to their strengths.

[truehibernian]

Three or four windows :hilarious

Our managers are lucky if they get about half that.

Look I think it's OK to criticise the manager, we have been woeful for weeks and there's no sign of improvement. He deserves time to bring some players in and address the obvious shortcomings that no other manager seemed to want to address. But for me, unless NM becomes a successful manager with us there's always going to be the question about whether we should have went for McInnes, for the moment the answer is yes we should have.

It has to be three or four mate (for me), especially when there’s players that are in contract yet surplus to requirements (JDH, Lewy, Paul, Doidge for example) and we’ e players like Megwa and Aitken developing well on loan, and other younger players getting a taste of first team training and playing. The summer window is where there’s the best opportunity to build, so two seasons minimum is a must for me. Then you can truly see the style, ability and vision of the manager. The previous recruitment in the main has been dreadful in the sense it’s been scattergun, ‘failed projects’ and loanees. He needs time to really build what he wants and I’ve faith he’ll do that.

[wookie70]

I am generally similar to you, albeit I admit with maloney I changed my mind much sooner.

Managers deserve a chance and time in the job. We ended the Ross period too early and then suffered with maloney taking us backwards. Johnson had ups and downs but had to go given the league start albeit we had the luzern performance knowing what was possible.

For maloney I hated going knowing how we would play and would never look like scoring. I don’t have that feeling under Montgomery. I seem to be in a minority but I had a different view of last nights game. Yes there were some elements that were not good, but it wasn’t all negative. The late goal coming from a poor error though is clouding some people’s judgement. People who didn’t want Montgomery in the first place and want him out.

I never backed Maloney from the word go. He was clearly trying to play a system that was never going to work and didn't have the personality that Montgomery has to brave it out. Unusual for me as I tend to not want managers sacked even when they aren't a good fit. The next one is rarely much better and it costs a fortune to get rid of the manager and backroom staff and then the inevitable churn of players. Football at our level is fairly simple, get your good players doing what they are good at, get the ball in the opponent's box as often as possible and unfortunately cheat and be cynical when the other team has the ball. Monty is failing in the first two of those criteria for me and if he continues to be stubborn he won't last long. He is a bit like Alex Miller who also had a team full of entertaining players and rarely were we anything but boring to watch. At the moment it feels like we may as well have stuck with Maloney

[Pretty Boy]

I'll criticise when I feel it is merited and I'm at that point with Montgomery now.

I'm not close to 'Monty out' yet which I think is a totally different thing.

[USA_Hibee]

That was admirable by Arsenal but very much against the grain in football world, rightly or wrongly.

I totally agree. Really id be happy to give Montgomery a few years unless we are in danger of relegation.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I totally agree. Really id be happy to give Montgomery a few years unless we are in danger of relegation.

Unfortunately but, at the moment that is horrendous to contemplate.

[sleeping giant]

He's made our best players worse.
That needs changing pronto.

[VoltaireHibs]

I'm not wholly convinced that NM's style of football will ever work on our budget, and even if it does work to a decent degree, I'm not sure how much I enjoy watching it. However, given when he came into the club, no pre-season, no players of his own to work with, then I think he should have the winter and summer transfer windows, that seems fair to me. No point bringing in a manager with a certain style and then not giving him the best chance to implement it. I do however think that, if he's not careful, he won't make it that far. A little flexibility goes a long way in this league.

[VoltaireHibs]

I'll criticise when I feel it is merited and I'm at that point with Montgomery now.

I'm not close to 'Monty out' yet which I think is a totally different thing.

That's where I'm at. His tactical inflexibility will be his downfall if he isn't careful. I see very little upside to this style of play and a lot of downside.

[Dmas]

He's made our best players worse.
That needs changing pronto.

Our ‘best players’ weren’t performing before he came which is key, Boyle has been well off it all season, Vente hasn’t actually hit any kind of form to justify this 20 goal a season striker people label him as and youan is as hot and cold as they come since he arrived here.

Marshall Rocky fish and full back areas all improved, Jair improved, game time for young players which wasn’t happening, there’s gonna be bumps in the road especially when you haven’t had an opportunity to address squad issues in a transfer window every defeat and bad performance can’t result in sack the manager shouts

[sleeping giant]

Our ‘best players’ weren’t performing before he came which is key, Boyle has been well off it all season, Vente hasn’t actually hit any kind of form to justify this 20 goal a season striker people label him as and youan is as hot and cold as they come since he arrived here.

Marshall Rocky fish and full back areas all improved, Jair improved, game time for young players which wasn’t happening, there’s gonna be bumps in the road especially when you haven’t had an opportunity to address squad issues in a transfer window every defeat and bad performance can’t result in sack the manager shouts

I'm not suggesting sacking him at all.

I'm desperately hoping he gets the players he wants to play his system.
At the moment though , we have the most exciting players in the league in Boyle and Youan but we are so boring with no urgency
He needs to adapt pronto.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Our ‘best players’ weren’t performing before he came which is key, Boyle has been well off it all season, Vente hasn’t actually hit any kind of form to justify this 20 goal a season striker people label him as and youan is as hot and cold as they come since he arrived here.

Marshall Rocky fish and full back areas all improved, Jair improved, game time for young players which wasn’t happening, there’s gonna be bumps in the road especially when you haven’t had an opportunity to address squad issues in a transfer window every defeat and bad performance can’t result in sack the manager shouts

Our best players were performing a hell of a lot better than they are now.

Boyle had 0.57 per start before NM. He’s got 0.4 goal involvements per start under NM.

Youan had 0.6 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.5 goal involvements per start under NM.

Vente had a 0.4 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.375 goal involvements per start under NM.

Joe Newell had 0.44 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.27 goal involvements per start under NM. He was also just generally playing out his skin earlier in the season before NM arrived.

They are really, in theory, meant to be our 4 main men. All of them are having much less impact on games in n this system. That combines to 0.465 goal opportunities lost from our best players per game from before he came in, or 8 goals over NMs 17 games. Yes he’s getting more from others, but it’s at the expense of our best players. Whilst it’s picked up some alright results so far, it doesn’t seem feasible that you can reduce the output of your best players that much and be successful long term.

[jamie_1875]

He needs January and then the summer, he then needs a period of settling in the new players and the new style. So this time next year is when we will start to see what he is about.

[Real Emerald]

He needs January and then the summer, he then needs a period of settling in the new players and the new style. So this time next year is when we will start to see what he is about.

Well he’s not going to get that long. He needs to get better players but he also needs to use the players he has in a better way. If he can’t he will rightly be sacked way before this time next year.

[Centre Hawf]

People who think you can’t critique or question a managers position until they’ve had at least two windows are living in fantasy land. Football isn’t a long term game anymore and if we were plod along for the next 4 months similar to what we seen in that last month then the club will begin to question things. Especially when it comes to season ticket sales and no one wants to renew for yet ANOTHER rebuild.

Football demands fast results and not everyone gets them, but it doesn’t stop us all demanding them, and any manager worth their salt these days needs to be acutely aware that they NEED to work with what they inherit to some degree to keep you in the job long enough to get your own guys in. I’m not so sure Montgomery is doing that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Well he’s not going to get that long. He needs to get better players but he also needs to use the players he has in a better way. If he can’t he will rightly be sacked way before this time next year.

:agree:

What happens when we’re a stick in for bottom 6 this year? Do we say ah well, we’ll try again next year and just hope that it gets better. Then we get to this time next year and we’re already miles behind 3rd and we’ve wrote 2 seasons off.

No manager in world football will be expecting to take over a team and get to have all his own players without any initial success with the guys who were already here. It simply doesn’t work that way, you can’t ask fans to essentially write off two seasons of football for a manager if they can’t get a tune out the players already there based purely on hope that he’ll be able to go on and get a tune out of different guys.

[B.H.F.C]

Our best players were performing a hell of a lot better than they are now.

Boyle had 0.57 per start before NM. He’s got 0.4 goal involvements per start under NM.

Youan had 0.6 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.5 goal involvements per start under NM.

Vente had a 0.4 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.375 goal involvements per start under NM.

Joe Newell had 0.44 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.27 goal involvements per start under NM. He was also just generally playing out his skin earlier in the season before NM arrived.

They are really, in theory, meant to be our 4 main men. All of them are having much less impact on games in n this system. That combines to 0.465 goal opportunities lost from our best players per game from before he came in, or 8 goals over NMs 17 games. Yes he’s getting more from others, but it’s at the expense of our best players. Whilst it’s picked up some alright results so far, it doesn’t seem feasible that you can reduce the output of your best players that much and be successful long term.

One thing he does have in his favour, and it’s not brilliant, is that we had 0.75 points per game prior to him coming in and he has 1.4 points per game.

It’s not been brilliant but it’s been a crap as the last few games for the entirety of his time here.

Montgomery could and should be doing things differently IMO but Boyle and Vente should have both improved their individual stats last night and there wasn’t much Montgomery could do about them failing to do so.

There has to be a point where we’re asking whether or not the players are doing enough or are they going to get another manager his P45.

[Paulie Walnuts]

One thing he does have in his favour, and it’s not brilliant, is that we had 0.75 points per game prior to him coming in and he has 1.4 points per game.

It’s not been brilliant but it’s been a crap as the last few games for the entirety of his time here.

Montgomery could and should be doing things differently IMO but Boyle and Vente should have both improved their individual stats last night and there wasn’t much Montgomery could do about them failing to do so.

There has to be a point where we’re asking whether or not the players are doing enough or are they going to get another manager his P45.

Absolutely, wouldn’t argue with your first point, my concern though is that those results are starting to correct themselves to an extent now that the new manager bounce has worn off. I fully expect that PPG to go down rather than up based on what I’ve seen of us under NM.

I think the players are being thrown under the bus a bit. Not necessarily deliberately, just to be clear on that, but asking our best players to play the roles they’re playing is absolutely ruining them imo and is the main reason I expect our PPG to go down going forward. You can’t have your 4 best players offering significantly less and be succesful long term imo.

[heid the baw]

This whole management hiring thing is not rocket science.
If you want European football and to finish 3rd in the league you go out and employ someone who has a proven track record.
The man who can do this was unemployed when Ross got sacked, still available when Maloney was failing and would have jumped at the chance after Johnson was binned.
The owners clearly don't want McInnes but he has always been the logical fit for a club of Hibs size.
I am still behind Montgomery and his team. He needs time. I like the fact that he gives young players a chance. Who knows, it could be a great appointment.
I've given up on trying to figure out how those running the club make decisions or what they are trying to achieve

[GreenCastle]

14 games till the top 6 split.

Rangers x2
Hearts x1 (away)
Celtic x 1
Aberdeen x1 (away)

That’s 5 games straight away which will be tough.

So the other 9 games (5 being home games) plus cup games are massively important for him.

Not making the top 6 will be a massive failure with these players.

[LeithMike]

I have wanted McInnes the last few appointments but have got on board with NM. He’s light years on from LJ’s haphazard style of management.

That said, the positive impact has started to wear off and he needs to think, first and foremost, how to get this team winning. I’m pretty sure that McInnes could have set that team up last night to get a win and so I think it is fair to criticise given the form we are in and the lack of a cutting edge to our play.

NM deserves time though. Unlike Maloney who had no track record, NM has shown he can be a success and I am hoping he will take us forwards. Can’t say I love our style of football and think we have a big gap between the forwards and midfield where Hearts managed to control the games but I think there has been clear improvements in a number of players.

It looks like he took a bit of time to get CCM moving so hopefully it is just a question of time for us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paulie Walnuts]

13 games till the top 6 split.

Rangers x2
Hearts x1 (away)
Celtic x 1
Aberdeen x1 (away)

That’s 5 games straight away which will be tough.

So the other 8 games (5 being home games) plus cup games are massively important for him.

Not making the top 6 will be a massive failure with these players.

Is it not 14 games left?

6th place is generally around 40 points at the split although last season it was 44.

40 points means 16 more from our 14 games. Theres no excuses for not getting that, but having seen that list of the 5 games above it could actually prove to be tricky from where we are now.

[greenpaper55]

This whole management hiring thing is not rocket science.
If you want European football and to finish 3rd in the league you go out and employ someone who has a proven track record.
The man who can do this was unemployed when Ross got sacked, still available when Maloney was failing and would have jumped at the chance after Johnson was binned.
The owners clearly don't want McInnes but he has always been the logical fit for a club of Hibs size.
I am still behind Montgomery and his team. He needs time. I like the fact that he gives young players a chance. Who knows, it could be a great appointment.
I've given up on trying to figure out how those running the club make decisions or what they are trying to achieve

So anyone with a proven track record will get a team into Europe, McIness would get the likes of Livi into Europe then ? The only way you can guarantee a top three finish is to get better quality players than we have just now.

[Hibee Daft]

Montogomery is *****

Naismith is a tactical genuis


In reality the game was very close, hibs had probably more chances but shankland finished his chance... they will struggle without him

[WhileTheChief..]

All for giving a manager time if he has us playing well and improving. I can take the odd crap result and don't mind draws or defeats where we've played well and competed.

I can put up with a string of bad results like we had under Lennon or Ross, without calling for them to be sacked.

But when it comes to guys that I know aren't up to it, I want them gone. I see no benefit in letting them hang around purely because we don't want to be seen sacking someone too soon.

Calderwood, Maloney and LJ are examples.

With NM, I think it's too soon to call. I don't really see much of an improvement in our play or the results, but I don't think he should be sacked.

If we're still playing the same way this time next year, and getting similar results, then I'll want him replaced.

[GreenCastle]

Is it not 14 games left?

6th place is generally around 40 points at the split although last season it was 44.

40 points means 16 more from our 14 games. Theres no excuses for not getting that, but having seen that list of the 5 games above it could actually prove to be tricky from where we are now.

Sorry missed out the Ross County game away which has to be rearranged.

[heid the baw]

So anyone with a proven track record will get a team into Europe, McIness would get the likes of Livi into Europe then ? The only way you can guarantee a top three finish is to get better quality players than we have just now.

To be fair I did say "a team of Hibs size". He has Killie sitting 4th at present and they don't have better players than Hibs
How is that?
He knows how to get results in this league, that's how

[TrinityHFC]

All for giving a manager time if he has us playing well and improving. I can take the odd crap result and don't mind draws or defeats where we've played well and competed.

I can put up with a string of bad results like we had under Lennon or Ross, without calling for them to be sacked.

But when it comes to guys that I know aren't up to it, I want them gone. I see no benefit in letting them hang around purely because we don't want to be seen sacking someone too soon.

Calderwood, Maloney and LJ are examples.

With NM, I think it's too soon to call. I don't really see much of an improvement in our play or the results, but I don't think he should be sacked.

If we're still playing the same way this time next year, and getting similar results, then I'll want him replaced.

There's very little chance a Hibs manager is getting a year to improve performances. Even the ones that have done well in the scheme of things have been emptied pretty sharpish when it has started to go the wrong way.

[greenpaper55]

To be fair I did say "a team of Hibs size". He has Killie sitting 4th at present and they don't have better players than Hibs
How is that?
He knows how to get results in this league, that's how

Did Killie not get beaten at home by Hearts recently ? All this gnashing of teeth because they got a goal from a punt from the keeper and a break of Rocky , sure it was a good finish but it took the break for him to get the space, time for everyone to calm down.

[Brizo]

Fans asking for him to be sacked are in the minority but he definitely is open to criticism and with his subs, team selections, stubborn 4-4-2 and not winning derbies or semi finals or even games against teams with less budget he will get fans asking questions / debating his tactics and decision making.

It all abit Groundhog Day - this isn’t a time to experiment with fancy free kicks and corner routines. Maloney, LJ and NM have all fallen into the trap of trying things with us which seem experimental.

Just do the basics and win games and the fancy football can follow. It’s Scottish football and our players are limited so play to their strengths.

:top marks

Last night was two bang-average teams showing very little quality with the main difference being they have a lethal finisher who is having a purple patch. The other difference is that NM , along with the ones named above has wanted us to play a style of football that's beyond the abilities of the pros at our club. This slow build-up tippy tappy passing it out short from the keeper works for EPL teams with multi-millionaire players but not with us. Hertz played to their strengths and that's how they got their goal, aided and abetted by shocking defending by us.

Unfortunately, if NM continues to put some kind of purist philosophy before pragmatism he'll be out the door and the Hibs managerial conveyor belt will be back in action.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

:top marks

Last night was two bang-average teams showing very little quality with the main difference being they have a lethal finisher who is having a purple patch. The other difference is that NM , along with the ones named above has wanted us to play a style of football that's beyond the abilities of the pros at our club. This slow build-up tippy tappy passing it out short from the keeper works for EPL teams with multi-millionaire players but not with us. Hertz played to their strengths and that's how they got their goal, aided and abetted by shocking defending by us.

Unfortunately, if NM continues to put some kind of purist philosophy before pragmatism he'll be out the door and the Hibs managerial conveyor belt will be back in action.

Difficult to argue with any of that.

[cameronw-hfc]

Difficult to argue with any of that.

Disagree we can't play the style. Notts County playing out from the back last season in the national league and it worked. Our players are good enough, they're just not doing it.

Much much lower level teams than us can pull off that style, so it's not that our players aren't capable

[Nicho87]

I’d still take mcinnes in a heartbeat

Not Monty out

But his stubborness is not helping

If it didn’t work out, mcinnes should be the only option

[Iain G]

I’d still take mcinnes in a heartbeat

Not Monty out

But his stubborness is not helping

If it didn’t work out, mcinnes should be the only option

McInnes should never be an option for Hibs, he is just Jack Ross 2.0

[Since90+2]

McInnes should never be an option for Hibs, he is just Jack Ross 2.0

He's a guy with a proven track record over many years in Scotland with top 3 and top 2 finishes. He's also got Kilmarnock promoted and now has them sitting 4th, on a far lower budget than ours.

I don't want Montgomery out, but McInnes is the obvious candidate if he does leave.

[Iain G]

He's a guy with a proven track record over many years in Scotland with top 3 and top 2 finishes. He's also got Kilmarnock promoted and now has them sitting 4th, on a far lower budget than ours.

I don't want Montgomery out, but McInnes is the obvious candidate if he does leave.

Then I am very happy Monty won't be leaving for a few years.

[Real Emerald]

He's a guy with a proven track record over many years in Scotland with top 3 and top 2 finishes. He's also got Kilmarnock promoted and now has them sitting 4th, on a far lower budget than ours.

I don't want Montgomery out, but McInnes is the obvious candidate if he does leave.

The league table doesn’t lie. We’re struggling to keep up with Kilmarnock and St Mirren, that’s how good NM is.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Disagree we can't play the style. Notts County playing out from the back last season in the national league and it worked. Our players are good enough, they're just not doing it.

Much much lower level teams than us can pull off that style, so it's not that our players aren't capable

The evidence tends to suggest otherwise.

[Iain G]

The league table doesn’t lie. We’re struggling to keep up with Kilmarnock and St Mirren, that’s how good NM is.

It's only halfway through the season, no prizes are given out now, unless you are Hearts and have already won the league...

[Centre Hawf]

Disagree we can't play the style. Notts County playing out from the back last season in the national league and it worked. Our players are good enough, they're just not doing it.

Much much lower level teams than us can pull off that style, so it's not that our players aren't capable

It’s not that we can’t play the style at all, I’d argue it’s that we’re not so far better at football than the teams we play against to make it work. Anyone who has managed to implement this type of style correctly tends to have night and day better players than the rest of the league (City, Barcelona, Bayern, Rodgers Celtic in our league, Stubbs in the Championship to a smaller extent)

We’re a mid table squad trying to play world class football at the moment and it plays right into some teams hands I’m afraid to say. Craig Levein once again read us like a ****ing book and Hearts have done it too. Now every other manager will be watching those games and just replicating what they did.

It’s time to see what NM has in his coaching locker.

[Brizo]

Disagree we can't play the style. Notts County playing out from the back last season in the national league and it worked. Our players are good enough, they're just not doing it.

Much much lower level teams than us can pull off that style, so it's not that our players aren't capable

If they're not doing it as you admit, Id suggest that's evidence that theyre not good enough to implement it successfully.

[Since452]

McInnes should never be an option for Hibs, he is just Jack Ross 2.0

The Jack Ross era is beginning to feel like the glory years. We've been slowly spiraling ever since we punted him or failed to replace him with better.

[Real Emerald]

It's only halfway through the season, no prizes are given out now, unless you are Hearts and have already won the league...

Yep and let’s hope a good window will get us going. It’s awful to watch just now and it worries me he’s no clue how to change things but we live in hope. 🤞

[Since90+2]

The Jack Ross era is beginning to feel like the glory years. We've been slowly spiraling ever since we punted him or failed to replace him with better.

The slating Ross gets at times is baffling.

He had us finishing 3rd and numerous semis and finals. Overall, given our relative level, he was a very good manager for us.

[Basildon Hibs]

:top marks

Last night was two bang-average teams showing very little quality with the main difference being they have a lethal finisher who is having a purple patch. The other difference is that NM , along with the ones named above has wanted us to play a style of football that's beyond the abilities of the pros at our club. This slow build-up tippy tappy passing it out short from the keeper works for EPL teams with multi-millionaire players but not with us. Hertz played to their strengths and that's how they got their goal, aided and abetted by shocking defending by us.

Unfortunately, if NM continues to put some kind of purist philosophy before pragmatism he'll be out the door and the Hibs managerial conveyor belt will be back in action.

👍👍

[Nicho87]

McInnes should never be an option for Hibs, he is just Jack Ross 2.0

A more Consistant Jack Ross

I’d prob take that

Yeah I’d settle for that

[LaMotta]

McInnes should never be an option for Hibs, he is just Jack Ross 2.0

A manager who would get us to third in the table and get us 6 trips to Hampden in 2 years? Sounds good.

[Since452]

The slating Ross gets at times is baffling.

He had us finishing 3rd and numerous semis and finals. Overall, given our relative level, he was a very good manager for us.

Absolutely. Take that in a heartbeat again. History will show him as a good Hibs manager and rightly so.

[Swedish hibee]

Monty said "it was a good game for the neutrals".. is it just me that thought it was awful?! Don't know if I'm being too harsh?

[Since90+2]

Monty said "it was a good game for the neutrals".. is it just me that thought it was awful?! Don't know if I'm being too harsh?

Second half was awful.

[hibbydog]

I’ll post the same thing I do every time this question comes up:

The manager is not the problem.

Ask yourself how many times we’ve changed managers in the last 20 years? Then ask yourself how many times it’s improved the team?

The answers are: loads. And very seldom. So why do we keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result?!

So it’s high time we changed our course of action when things aren’t going our way.

Perhaps let him grow into the job, learn the league and a good few transfer windows to make it HIS squad.

FFS, we’re still working with some of the players from Jack Ross’s time, even Heckingbottom.

And in the meantime, if we want to change something, perhaps we look for investment or new revenue streams. Statistics will prove that, on average, league placings correlate pretty much with budgets.

[blackpoolhibs]

I'll criticise when I feel it is merited and I'm at that point with Montgomery now.

I'm not close to 'Monty out' yet which I think is a totally different thing.

Exactly, I'm sick of watching our midfield being outnumbered.if we need to play players out of position just wait until you have the players to play the system you want to play. Until such time, play to the players strengths.

[Baader]

Exactly, I'm sick of watching our midfield being outnumbered.if we need to play players out of position just wait until you have the players to play the system you want to play. Until such time, play to the players strengths.

Becoming quite perplexed as to how our manager won't do this. To be so rigid and inflexible when it's not working is concerning. You need to work best with what you have, that is his job. Not trying the same thing repeatedly and hoping for different results...

[VoltaireHibs]

If they're not doing it as you admit, Id suggest that's evidence that theyre not good enough to implement it successfully.

This style of football is only ever as successful as its weakest link. Too many misplaced passes, we found it impossible to build any pressure and the game was pretty awful by and large. I have my doubts we'll ever assemble enough good, technical footballers, to play it properly. Bringing the youth through would be NM's best bet I think.

[Steve20]

You can criticise a manager without wanting him out.

There seems to be a belief that you either agree with every decision the manager makes or if you don’t, you must want him out.

[SHODAN]

S soon as a blahddy want is mai MONEY a pay to SEE THE TEAM ISSS A DISC RACE

[Northernhibee]

After two losses, apparently.

[Iain G]

After two losses, apparently.

Before he is appointed in some cases!

[Smartie]

A general question, really. Personally, I think it's laughable people are calling for Montgomery to be sacked, even though there are obvious grounds for concern.

My own preferred style is back them unreservedly for 12 months, then assess to determine whether there has been a discernible improvement. I backed Johnson for this period -with the usual reservations - but then was a strong advocate for him moving on. I'm behind Montgomery. Whether his system of play will work in our game and with our personnel is open to question. But I'll keep my counsel until this time next year.

I think you’re pretty much spot on here and I agree with all points.

One thing I’d add - the timing of Johnson’s sacking was nonsensical and symptomatic of a poorly run club. If there were doubts about his performance then he shouldn’t have seen the summer and the new man should have been able to come in, recruit and spend a bit of time working with his new players.

Instead, Monty’s had to work for nearly half a season with someone else’s duds. Whether or not his approach is likely to get the best out of that group of players is another story but there’s a decent chance that a decent chunk
of our support are going to be on a manager’s back before his first transfer window has opened. That is not going to be any sort of a recipe for sustained football success rather than allowing the continuation of revolving door perma-transitional pish.

So rather than a year, I wonder if (to give a hypothetical next guy the best chance of succeeding) then the end of this season is a better time to judge rather than the last week of next August?

[Scouse Hibee]

I'm not one for calling for a managers head every time things are not going well and I certainly wouldn't allow a couple of bad results or a derby defeat, change my mindset in that respect.


However the main thing for me is that any decent manager should recognise that until he/she has the players at their disposal that can perform at a level that the system they want to play needs, then they need to compromise to get the best from the available players. It would also help if the obvious strength of certain players DV for one was exploited rather than stifled.

The slow boring lets play out from the back passing it sideways and in triangles seems to have become a fad, teams that do this successfully have the players who make the runs, can see the passes and can transition explosively from defence into attack in an instant. We don't and just run out of ideas particularly when pressed and then just look for the punt as a way out. Yes NM has a window coming up that may or may not allow him to change and recruit his own personnel, however I don't expect wholesale changes will be possible and I fully expect that compromise will be required.

[Northernhibee]

I'm not one for calling for a managers head every time things are not going well and I certainly wouldn't allow a couple of bad results or a derby defeat, change my mindset in that respect.


However the main thing for me is that any decent manager should recognise that until he/she has the players at their disposal that can perform at a level that the system they want to play needs, then they need to compromise to get the best from the available players. It would also help if the obvious strength of certain players DV for one was exploited rather than stifled.

The slow boring lets play out from the back passing it sideways and in triangles seems to have become a fad, teams that do this successfully have the players who make the runs, can see the passes and can transition explosively from defence into attack in an instant. We don't and just run out of ideas particularly when pressed and then just look for the punt as a way out. Yes NM has a window coming up that may or may not allow him to change and recruit his own personnel, however I don't expect wholesale changes will be possible and I fully expect that compromise will be required.

I have to be honest and I seem to be in a minority with this one, I don't find the football under NM boring. I can see what we're trying to do and it'll take time to fully click, but there are decent chunks of our games where I find it enjoyable to watch.

I think that for quite a few people some of the noisier sections of the support have started shouting "eye bleeding" and "anti-football" like they (incorrectly) did with Jack Ross and other people have picked up on it because of a couple of bad results and emotions running high.

[Scouse Hibee]

I have to be honest and I seem to be in a minority with this one, I don't find the football under NM boring. I can see what we're trying to do and it'll take time to fully click, but there are decent chunks of our games where I find it enjoyable to watch.

I think that for quite a few people some of the noisier sections of the support have started shouting "eye bleeding" and "anti-football" like they (incorrectly) did with Jack Ross and other people have picked up on it because of a couple of bad results and emotions running high.


Admittedly I have only seen about six games this season due to other commitments, so you will be more qualified than me, just basing my opinion on limited games and results.

[B.H.F.C]

I have to be honest and I seem to be in a minority with this one, I don't find the football under NM boring. I can see what we're trying to do and it'll take time to fully click, but there are decent chunks of our games where I find it enjoyable to watch.

I think that for quite a few people some of the noisier sections of the support have started shouting "eye bleeding" and "anti-football" like they (incorrectly) did with Jack Ross and other people have picked up on it because of a couple of bad results and emotions running high.

Up until the last few weeks I thought we were a bit ponderous at times but we were also playing some decent stuff. Performance levels have absolutely fell of a cliff in the last 4 games. It started at Parkhead and was easily accepted because it was at Parkhead, but in reality we never gave ourselves a chance. Livingston I thought they deserved the benefit of the doubt because we won and anybody who was there will know the conditions were absolutely horrific. St Johnstone was just brutal all round and I thought our approach to the derby was crap.

Just need to try to grind out a result on Tuesday then regroup and make some additions for after the break. It’s just the regression from some of the earlier decent things we were seeing when Monty came in that is a big concern.

[Northernhibee]

Admittedly I have only seen about six games this season due to other commitments, so you will be more qualified than me, just basing my opinion on limited games and results.

Even though I quoted your post, it’s not aimed at anyone in particular. I didn’t think Jack Ross’s football was as dull as people said and felt a lot of people were saying it because others did.

[hibsbollah]

I am assuming a big reason why Montgomery was given the job is his success in 2023 in Oz, when he took one of the smaller top flight clubs to the title, winning the final 6-1. I cant say much about the level of player he was working with, because i dont know them, but Cumdog was his striker and their player budget wont be higher there than ours, and so its fair to say he DOES have pedigree in getting average players to play progressive gradual build up passing football, while also winning stuff.

Theres a lot of chat that you need world class players to play that way successfully, im not sure thats true. Yes, Scotland is different, but football is football.

[rowan3633]

I have no issue with anyone criticizing the manager's selections or tactics but I think it has to also be taken into consideration that he inherited a very inconsistent team filled with another manager's choice of players, he even took over just a few weeks after a whole load of them were loaned out unable to return until January at the earliest.

He's never seen Cadden, JDH or McKirdy due to injury/illness

Melkerson, Henderson, Kenneh & Mackay sent out on loan, he may not have chosen to do that and Melkerson has now been sold and he won't get him back at all.

Even from our development squad Megwa, McLelland, McIntryre, Tait, Aiken & O'Connor aren't with us just now either.

I'm quite happy with what Monty is trying to do, disappointed with a few performances here and there but sure that has to be expected until he actually has an opportunity to pick from a full squad that he has had some feedback into the formation of

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Three or four windows :hilarious

Our managers are lucky if they get about half that.

Look I think it's OK to criticise the manager, we have been woeful for weeks and there's no sign of improvement. He deserves time to bring some players in and address the obvious shortcomings that no other manager seemed to want to address. But for me, unless NM becomes a successful manager with us there's always going to be the question about whether we should have went for McInnes, for the moment the answer is yes we should have.
McInnes is a repeat of Jack.

[Stuart93]

Things are utter boring just now, feel we’re going from game to game trying to grind out a result. Slow and predictable.

But would be madness to want him gone at this stage.

[Gatecrasher]

McInnes is a repeat of Jack.

He's achieved way more than Jack Ross and has been more consistent as well. In fact Jack Ross would be an improvement in what we've seen recently. We need to get out of the mentality that these guys aren't good enough for hibs, it hurts us in the long run.

[Skol]

Even though I quoted your post, it’s not aimed at anyone in particular. I didn’t think Jack Ross’s football was as dull as people said and felt a lot of people were saying it because others did.

I am in the same place as you are with Montgomery and also Ross. People are too quick to find fault

[SickBoy32]

This whole management hiring thing is not rocket science.
If you want European football and to finish 3rd in the league you go out and employ someone who has a proven track record.
The man who can do this was unemployed when Ross got sacked, still available when Maloney was failing and would have jumped at the chance after Johnson was binned.
The owners clearly don't want McInnes but he has always been the logical fit for a club of Hibs size.
I am still behind Montgomery and his team. He needs time. I like the fact that he gives young players a chance. Who knows, it could be a great appointment.
I've given up on trying to figure out how those running the club make decisions or what they are trying to achieve

Spot on, totally agree that those running the club are way out their depth. In terms of what they’re trying to achieve - I think it’s just a ROI, hence the drive to increase market value of the club whilst sporting success is an afterthought.

For Kensell to have appointed Maloney, Johnson and Montgomery - and not looked towards McInnes is nothing short of incompetence tbh. He was the obvious shout each time we were looking (again) for a new manager.

I like Montgomery, although patience is certainly waning with some of his selections etc (bushiri over Hanlon for example!!). We’ll likely limp along to the end of the season, finish below our main rivals again and see a decrease in ST numbers as a result. It’s certainly an uphill battle for the manager from here.

Rather than ask how long to criticise the manager - I think we now need to turn our attention to the CEO. We may soon be at 3 dud appointments, I really don’t think we can let this shyster make a 4th.

And as for the folk still slating Jack Ross 😂 - we can only dream of a win % like that now !

[easty]

I always like to think of Arteta. Arsenal fans were calling for his head, he was given time to build his team and now look at them.

Arteta was given a huge amount of money to build his team. Hasn’t he spent more than anyone else since he got the job?

Still won basically nowt, and won’t win anything this season either.

[easty]

I think you’re pretty much spot on here and I agree with all points.

One thing I’d add - the timing of Johnson’s sacking was nonsensical and symptomatic of a poorly run club. If there were doubts about his performance then he shouldn’t have seen the summer and the new man should have been able to come in, recruit and spend a bit of time working with his new players.

Instead, Monty’s had to work for nearly half a season with someone else’s duds. Whether or not his approach is likely to get the best out of that group of players is another story but there’s a decent chance that a decent chunk
of our support are going to be on a manager’s back before his first transfer window has opened. That is not going to be any sort of a recipe for sustained football success rather than allowing the continuation of revolving door perma-transitional pish.

So rather than a year, I wonder if (to give a hypothetical next guy the best chance of succeeding) then the end of this season is a better time to judge rather than the last week of next August?

I’d argue that sacking Johnson in the summer would have been ridiculous. Hibs are in a group with Aberdeen and Hearts that should be fighting out for the places 3-5. We ended up bottom of that group, just, last season.

Unless we start massively outspending Aberdeen and Hearts then we’d be mad to start sacking managers in the summer after just finishing 5th.


On Montgomery, I’ve no been impressed with him at all really. I don’t think he’s setting us up correctly. You cannae win games without scoring, and we don’t create anywhere near enough good chances to score. You’re more or less needing the players to score with any opportunity they get because we only got a few a game.

Jair the only real positive for me, and he deserves credit for getting better from him.

[Trinity Hibee]

I’d argue that sacking Johnson in the summer would have been ridiculous. Hibs are in a group with Aberdeen and Hearts that should be fighting out for the places 3-5. We ended up bottom of that group, just, last season.

Unless we start massively outspending Aberdeen and Hearts then we’d be mad to start sacking managers in the summer after just finishing 5th.


On Montgomery, I’ve no been impressed with him at all really. I don’t think he’s setting us up correctly. You cannae win games without scoring, and we don’t create anywhere near enough good chances to score. You’re more or less needing the players to score with any opportunity they get because we only got a few a game.

Jair the only real positive for me, and he deserves credit for getting better from him.

I don’t disagree with some of what you have said but we have to remember it was a poor Aberdeen and hearts and we had some terrible results last season (league cup groups, 2 3-0 defeats to hearts within a couple of weeks) so it’s hardly like he set the heather on fire last year.

Sacking a manager a few games in does highlight the board don’t have a clear idea of what we need. It’s now left Montgomery with an average at best squad until January at which point is looking like 3rd will already be out of reach so it’s another transition season. We really need to start getting this right quickly otherwise everyone involved in the recruitment of these managers should be questioned. This always seems to have been a problem at Hibs though, big focus on off field matters whilst the playing side suffers

[Iain G]

Spot on, totally agree that those running the club are way out their depth. In terms of what they’re trying to achieve - I think it’s just a ROI, hence the drive to increase market value of the club whilst sporting success is an afterthought.

For Kensell to have appointed Maloney, Johnson and Montgomery - and not looked towards McInnes is nothing short of incompetence tbh. He was the obvious shout each time we were looking (again) for a new manager.

I like Montgomery, although patience is certainly waning with some of his selections etc (bushiri over Hanlon for example!!). We’ll likely limp along to the end of the season, finish below our main rivals again and see a decrease in ST numbers as a result. It’s certainly an uphill battle for the manager from here.

Rather than ask how long to criticise the manager - I think we now need to turn our attention to the CEO. We may soon be at 3 dud appointments, I really don’t think we can let this shyster make a 4th.

And as for the folk still slating Jack Ross 😂 - we can only dream of a win % like that now !

I still remain glad and happy that we continue to overlook McInnes and would not call it incompetence at all. We are willing to take risks and try something new instead of the dull same old.

Monty will bring it all together.

[Northernhibee]

I would give it three months before some lauding McInnes as a football genius would be calling for his head because it was “eye bleeding” and “mind numbing”.

[Since90+2]

I still remain glad and happy that we continue to overlook McInnes and would not call it incompetence at all. We are willing to take risks and try something new instead of the dull same old.

Monty will bring it all together.

What do you mean by dull same old? Because McInnes is an experienced manager?

He was clearly the right candidate with a solid understanding of the Scottish game, and importantly a long track record of succeeding in the Scottish league at a similar club with a similar budget.

[Smartie]

What do you mean by dull same old? Because McInnes is an experienced manager?

He was clearly the right candidate with a solid understanding of the Scottish game, and importantly a long track record of succeeding in the Scottish league at a similar club with a similar budget.

I don’t disagree that McInnes appeared to be the person who would likely be most successful but was there any real guarantee he’d leave Killie to join us? I’m not sure.

On another thread there is an interesting point made about nonsense being repeated often enough that it becomes fact and I think McInnes’ eye bleeding football comes under this category. At Hibs he’d have a decent budget and not have to play in that Rugby Park pitch every week. I think we’d all happily accept that we were entertained if he picked up the results against Rangers and Celtic that he has at Killie. There’s a danger that the “crap football” false narrative might trip him up but I honestly believe that enough folk know that if results are good enough then the manager is doing well enough.

[mixumatosis]

What do you mean by dull same old? Because McInnes is an experienced manager?

He was clearly the right candidate with a solid understanding of the Scottish game, and importantly a long track record of succeeding in the Scottish league at a similar club with a similar budget.

He was approached and turned us down.

I mean, I have absolutely no idea if that's true, but then nor does anyone else on this board. But it's at least as plausible as the notion that the people who appointed NM somehow didn't know about Derek McInnes or just decided they weren't interested for no valid reason.

[Skol]

I am sure it is coincidence but it struck me one poster has two logins when I read the above two posts.

For me, I wasn’t keen to go down the tried and tested mcinnes route. I always found his Aberdeen team difficult to watch and I found some of his post game views on proceedings to be pretty poor. Yes I know he had a good record in the league but at a time when the other usual contenders were going through their own troubles. He doesn’t have a great cup record either.

If the current batch of Montgomery out people get their way, I would be disappointed. I would get behind their choice of mcinnes, but what happens when he has his first poor run and loses a derby ?

[greenlex]

I am sure it is coincidence but it struck me one poster has two logins when I read the above two posts.

For me, I wasn’t keen to go down the tried and tested mcinnes route. I always found his Aberdeen team difficult to watch and I found some of his post game views on proceedings to be pretty poor. Yes I know he had a good record in the league but at a time when the other usual contenders were going through their own troubles. He doesn’t have a great cup record either.

If the current batch of Montgomery out people get their way, I would be disappointed. I would get behind their choice of mcinnes, but what happens when he has his first poor run and loses a derby ?

Of course they’ll want him out. And then the next guy and the one after that too.

[Smartie]

I am sure it is coincidence but it struck me one poster has two logins when I read the above two posts.

For me, I wasn’t keen to go down the tried and tested mcinnes route. I always found his Aberdeen team difficult to watch and I found some of his post game views on proceedings to be pretty poor. Yes I know he had a good record in the league but at a time when the other usual contenders were going through their own troubles. He doesn’t have a great cup record either.

If the current batch of Montgomery out people get their way, I would be disappointed. I would get behind their choice of mcinnes, but what happens when he has his first poor run and loses a derby ?

I can assure you I only have the one login, although this isn’t the first time in recent weeks I’ve coincidentally expressed a very similar opinion to someone at the same time. It isn’t a wild take though so it isn’t mad that 2 folk should express variations on the same opinion at the same time.

And FWIW - I thought (and think) that Monty was and is a better candidate than McInnes. He needs time, support and to bring his own players in. Talk of firing him now is worse than nonsense. I think he might have been more pragmatic re playing style and getting the most out of our current players but that’s a fairly mild criticism, I also get why he might want to see which of our current players fit into his system and which ones do not asap. Unfortunately I think we need to change at least half our team to get it playing the way he wants, and in doing so may have to shift on some big players on big wages, even if we do end up having a few quid extra to spend…

[Skol]

Of course they’ll want him out. And then the next guy and the one after that too.

Yes, and is there ever a point when some people think maybe our support or lack thereof is part of the problem ?

[Skol]

I can assure you I only have the one login, although this isn’t the first time in recent weeks I’ve coincidentally expressed a very similar opinion to someone at the same time. It isn’t a wild take though so it isn’t mad that 2 folk should express variations on the same opinion at the same time.

And FWIW - I thought (and think) that Monty was and is a better candidate than McInnes. He needs time, support and to bring his own players in. Talk of firing him now is worse than nonsense. I think he might have been more pragmatic re playing style and getting the most out of our current players but that’s a fairly mild criticism, I also get why he might want to see which of our current players fit into his system and which ones do not asap. Unfortunately I think we need to change at least half our team to get it playing the way he wants, and in doing so may have to shift on some big players on big wages, even if we do end up having a few quid extra to spend…

lol. I did say it was the coincidence that you both quoted the same post and have the same profile picture.

[He's here!]

What do you mean by dull same old? Because McInnes is an experienced manager?

He was clearly the right candidate with a solid understanding of the Scottish game, and importantly a long track record of succeeding in the Scottish league at a similar club with a similar budget.

And with fraction of our budget at his current club he's got them six points clear of us, quite possibly nine after today's fixtures.

Hearts will be 11 clear of us when they beat Ross County later so third's already gone for us, while McInnes is currently looking like the only manager who will challenge them. If he were to finish in the top 4 with Killie he'd have better offers than the Hibs job on his plate.

[easty]

And with fraction of our budget at his current club he's got them six points clear of us, quite possibly nine after today's fixtures.

Hearts will be 11 clear of us when they beat Ross County later so third's already gone for us, while McInnes is currently looking like the only manager who will challenge them. If he were to finish in the top 4 with Killie he'd have better offers than the Hibs job on his plate.

There’s just nae way that I’m accepting third place is gone based on a potential 11 point deficit.

We’re only half way through the season ffs.

[Iain G]

What do you mean by dull same old? Because McInnes is an experienced manager?

He was clearly the right candidate with a solid understanding of the Scottish game, and importantly a long track record of succeeding in the Scottish league at a similar club with a similar budget.

I find him dull and plodding and uninspiring and am glad Hibs continue to look outside the small Scottish managerial gene pool when it comes to appointments. I like supporting a club that will try to be different and push away from the norm.

It doesn't always work but with Mowbray and Stubbs when we hit gold we do it well, we get exciting teams that get us all on board. It's worth the risk of trying the new.

McInnes is just dull and watching his Aberdeen team over so many years was awful and turgid.

[Iain G]

There’s just nae way that I’m accepting third place is gone based on a potential 11 point deficit.

We’re only half way through the season ffs.

Third is very much still achievable and anyone saying it isn't in December is just being defeatist.

[GreenCastle]

There’s just nae way that I’m accepting third place is gone based on a potential 11 point deficit.

We’re only half way through the season ffs.

3rd is Hearts to lose now.

We had to win midweek to have any chance of closing the gap.

Looking at both fixtures till the split Hearts also have easier fixtures.

It’s our own fault for a terrible performance away to St Johnstone - win that and the gap wouldn’t be as bad. We have also had too many draws - Dundee - Ross County and even when ahead against Killie away.

My prediction is the gap will grow and we should be more concerned about making the top 6 as that would be a total failure if we don’t.

[B.H.F.C]

There’s just nae way that I’m accepting third place is gone based on a potential 11 point deficit.

We’re only half way through the season ffs.

In this league, 2-3 wins on the bounce completely changes things. Happened with us (positively) a few weeks back.

We’ll still finish above Kilmarnock. Whether we can get enough consistency (probably not) to fight for third I’m not sure. Worth remembering where Hearts were this time last year though, and they were caught. For us, depends what happens in the window (which we seem to say every year).

[SickBoy32]

There’s just nae way that I’m accepting third place is gone based on a potential 11 point deficit.

We’re only half way through the season ffs.

Half way through or not, the bookies reckon it’s gone for us. Jambos 2/5 to finish 3rd whilst we’re out at 12/1.

McInnes’ Killie are 4/1 FWIW.

Unfortunately I cannot see us getting anywhere near the required improvement in both results and consistency to challenge for 3rd now

[easty]

3rd is Hearts to lose now.

We had to win midweek to have any chance of closing the gap.

Looking at both fixtures till the split Hearts also have easier fixtures.

It’s our own fault for a terrible performance away to St Johnstone - win that and the gap wouldn’t be as bad. We have also had too many draws - Dundee - Ross County and even when ahead against Killie away.

My prediction is the gap will grow and we should be more concerned about making the top 6 as that would be a total failure if we don’t.

Of course it’s theirs to lose, and they’re well favourite for third at this point, but they could easily lose their best player in the next few weeks. Without him they’d struggle massively.

This is basically the same Hearts squad and management team that managed to win 3, draw 3 and lose 7 of their last 13 league games last season.

[BoomtownHibees]

And with fraction of our budget at his current club he's got them six points clear of us, quite possibly nine after today's fixtures.

Hearts will be 11 clear of us when they beat Ross County later so third's already gone for us, while McInnes is currently looking like the only manager who will challenge them. If he were to finish in the top 4 with Killie he'd have better offers than the Hibs job on his plate.

11 behind with a game in hand (they haven’t won today yet). Far from “gone” when still in December

[easty]

Half way through or not, the bookies reckon it’s gone for us. Jambos 2/5 to finish 3rd whilst we’re out at 12/1.

McInnes’ Killie are 4/1 FWIW.

Unfortunately I cannot see us getting anywhere near the required improvement in both results and consistency to challenge for 3rd now

The bookies had Newcastle at 2/5 to beat Forest and Arsenal 3/10 to beat West Ham the other night.

They can price things based on expectations, but football isn’t won in the bookies offices

[SickBoy32]

The bookies had Newcastle at 2/5 to beat Forest and Arsenal 3/10 to beat West Ham the other night.

They can price things based on expectations, but football isn’t won in the bookies offices

Admire your optimism if you believe this hibs team will finish 3rd, from this point 👍

[easty]

Admire your optimism if you believe this hibs team will finish 3rd, from this point 👍

I don’t “believe” we will. I think it’s unlikely. I’m not ready to write it off though, not this early.

I’m just not that pessimistic.

[LaMotta]

There's another thread where it talks about the dangers of social media perpetuating myths which then turn into some people's reality - well its in plain sight on this thread.

The idea that McInnes served up dull boring football is so far moved from what actually happened when he was at Aberdeen. How can a guy whose team scored 7 goals on two occasions and 6 and 5 goals on numerous others be described as serving up dull football? He regularly got the better of Rangers and had Aberdeen finishing in their best league positions for decades. His failing was not being able to get the better of Celtic in league or cups - can't really blame him for that and if he could have then he'd be a legend up there.

Like all managers he had a dip in form with his team over a period. These days it looks like no managers are ever allowed one of these with fan pressure from social media which is actually mad.

The time to get McInnes though wasnt this season pre Monty. It was when he was available and club free in December 2021. For some reason we instead appointed Maloney, an absolutely ridiculous punt on a guy with zero managerial experience, poor communication skills and limited transfer contacts all because he talked about playing nice football.

The Hibs hierachy at that time were guilty of being influenced way too much by the fanciful online proclaimations from some that Hibs have to play some kind of magical free flowing style of football, which quite frankly has never really existed and is never likely to. This led to us sacking a manager who didnt deserve it and appointing a dud costing us a place in the top 6, possibly a cup final berth and huge amounts of money.

[Paulie Walnuts]

There’s just nae way that I’m accepting third place is gone based on a potential 11 point deficit.

We’re only half way through the season ffs.

It’s not gone but it’s a big ask now, even at 8 points imo.

Whilst we don’t like to admit it, Hearts have been pretty good this season in terms of results. They’re heading for 64 points at their current rate which would leave us needing 40 points from 57 left available to match them. That would be a better run than we managed second half of 17/18 and over a significantly longer period as well.

We really need to hope for a Hearts collapse imo, probably caused by Shankland leaving. I reckon we’ll be doing well to reach past the mid 50s points wise.

[sean]

There's another thread where it talks about the dangers of social media perpetuating myths which then turn into some people's reality - well its in plain sight on this thread.

The idea that McInnes served up dull boring football is so far moved from what actually happened when he was at Aberdeen. How can a guy whose team scored 7 goals on two occasions and 6 and 5 goals on numerous others be described as serving up dull football? He regularly got the better of Rangers and had Aberdeen finishing in their best league positions for decades. His failing was not being able to get the better of Celtic in league or cups - can't really blame him for that and if he could have then he'd be a legend up there.

Like all managers he had a dip in form with his team over a period. These days it looks like no managers are ever allowed one of these with fan pressure from social media which is actually mad.

The time to get McInnes though wasnt this season pre Monty. It was when he was available and club free in December 2021. For some reason we instead appointed Maloney, an absolutely ridiculous punt on a guy with zero managerial experience, poor communication skills and limited transfer contacts all because he talked about playing nice football.


well said

[He's here!]

There’s just nae way that I’m accepting third place is gone based on a potential 11 point deficit.

We’re only half way through the season ffs.

On current evidence I reckon we'll toil to finish in the top six. There's nothing positive to be taken from following up that dreadful display at St Johnstone with a derby defeat at home. I won't be the only one thinking that a win over Motherwell is far from a given based on our paltry firepower of late.

Sure, Hearts are massively reliant on Shankland but we're simply not good enough to catch them, even if he gets sold.

[Yorkshire HFC]

Yes, and is there ever a point when some people think maybe our support or lack thereof is part of the problem ?

How many people on here are qualified to critisise people who have worked, lived and breathed football for 30 years?

Reference another thread, social media gives everyone an opinion - it doesn't mean that they should share it though.

Imagine being Miller, Buishiri, Boyle, Jair etc. and reading some of the comments on here after the derby - yes, they get paid big money, but that doesn't insulate them from just being ordinary men.

The manager's been given a contract - why not let him see it out and then see where we lie?

[GloryGlory]

A general question, really. Personally, I think it's laughable people are calling for Montgomery to be sacked, even though there are obvious grounds for concern.

My own preferred style is back them unreservedly for 12 months, then assess to determine whether there has been a discernible improvement. I backed Johnson for this period -with the usual reservations - but then was a strong advocate for him moving on. I'm behind Montgomery. Whether his system of play will work in our game and with our personnel is open to question. But I'll keep my counsel until this time next year.

I think at least two windows and a full pre season, to move on some of the underperformers, bring in his own players and put his stamp on the team. So if things don't look like they've improved by this time next year...

[The Modfather]

I can assure you I only have the one login, although this isn’t the first time in recent weeks I’ve coincidentally expressed a very similar opinion to someone at the same time. It isn’t a wild take though so it isn’t mad that 2 folk should express variations on the same opinion at the same time.

And FWIW - I thought (and think) that Monty was and is a better candidate than McInnes. He needs time, support and to bring his own players in. Talk of firing him now is worse than nonsense. I think he might have been more pragmatic re playing style and getting the most out of our current players but that’s a fairly mild criticism, I also get why he might want to see which of our current players fit into his system and which ones do not asap. Unfortunately I think we need to change at least half our team to get it playing the way he wants, and in doing so may have to shift on some big players on big wages, even if we do end up having a few quid extra to spend…

This is key for me. Not since Jack Ross’ 3rd place finish, even then the team would regularly throw in games the whole team didn’t turn up in out of the blue, have we had a structured and recognisable team. The last two and a half seasons have been about throwing money at good individuals and seeing how they fit together. Which amounted to hope Boyle & Youan can do something, Nisbet can create his own goals and hope to minimise the losing streaks.

We have some good individual players but have been a poor team less than the sun of its parts for ages now. Doig, maybe a case for Nisbet, is the last player I was gutted to see leave and thought was irreplaceable. Maybe Newell now in that category but no one else I think we couldn’t replace.We’ve gone through 3 managers, and grumbles starting on the 4th with this squad of individuals. I’m happy to back Montgomery. Sign a spine of the team for 442 and start moving on the good individuals in favour of players suited to 442 and who will help make us more than the sum of its parts.

Folk talk about 442 not working, no one playing it etc. What’s the alternative? Play 433/451 like everyone else, be unlikely to afford the type of players, other than on loan, that are suited to playing on their own and not end up isolated. Has anyone, ourselves include, made a sustained success playing 4333/451 or is the whole league still consistently inconsistent every season and collectively lacking much quality?

[greenlex]

How many people on here are qualified to critisise people who have worked, lived and breathed football for 30 years?

Reference another thread, social media gives everyone an opinion - it doesn't mean that they should share it though.

Imagine being Miller, Buishiri, Boyle, Jair etc. and reading some of the comments on here after the derby - yes, they get paid big money, but that doesn't insulate them from just being ordinary men.

The manager's been given a contract - why not let him see it out and then see where we lie?
That’s part of the coaches job. Getting players to perform. Getting them to ignore social media and stick with the process. If he can’t get them ignoring idiots like us he’s not doing his job.

[mutley]

I think at least two windows and a full pre season, to move on some of the underperformers, bring in his own players and put his stamp on the team. So if things don't look like they've improved by this time next year...

This is how I see it too, January window isn’t usually great anyway, but at least a preseason and a summer window, let the manager at least try to get his own player targets and then see what he can get out of them .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Since90+2]

I find him dull and plodding and uninspiring and am glad Hibs continue to look outside the small Scottish managerial gene pool when it comes to appointments. I like supporting a club that will try to be different and push away from the norm.

It doesn't always work but with Mowbray and Stubbs when we hit gold we do it well, we get exciting teams that get us all on board. It's worth the risk of trying the new.

McInnes is just dull and watching his Aberdeen team over so many years was awful and turgid.

I just don't agree with your last sentence. It's something that has been said and now been latched onto.

I'm not saying they weren't very good at "game management" but the idea they were not able to play football at all is wrong IMO. If it was that easy to simply be spoilers in every game and play defensively then more teams would do it and be successful.

He actually reminds me on Steve Clarke in the way he plays, it's pragmatic when it needs to be against better teams but expansive at times too.

Even if it was turgid, would you rather finish 3rd, get guaranteed group stage football but play slightly more conservative football, or finish somewhere between 9th-4th that we do the majority of the time.

[easty]

On current evidence I reckon we'll toil to finish in the top six. There's nothing positive to be taken from following up that dreadful display at St Johnstone with a derby defeat at home. I won't be the only one thinking that a win over Motherwell is far from a given based on our paltry firepower of late.

I kept reading on here last season how we’d never make top 6 and we’d be lucky to avoid a relegation fight too.

[Skol]

How many people on here are qualified to critisise people who have worked, lived and breathed football for 30 years?

Reference another thread, social media gives everyone an opinion - it doesn't mean that they should share it though.

Imagine being Miller, Buishiri, Boyle, Jair etc. and reading some of the comments on here after the derby - yes, they get paid big money, but that doesn't insulate them from just being ordinary men.

The manager's been given a contract - why not let him see it out and then see where we lie?

That’s where I am on this. Montgomery and the team need our support right now, not murmurings of discontent.

Lammotta earlier makes a good point about the timing of mcinnes and the appointment of maloney. I don’t entirely agree about the view on mcinnes brand of football though based on my own experience of watching Aberdeen at Easter road.

[Scotty Leither]

I have to be honest and I seem to be in a minority with this one, I don't find the football under NM boring. I can see what we're trying to do and it'll take time to fully click, but there are decent chunks of our games where I find it enjoyable to watch.

I think that for quite a few people some of the noisier sections of the support have started shouting "eye bleeding" and "anti-football" like they (incorrectly) did with Jack Ross and other people have picked up on it because of a couple of bad results and emotions running high.

The away game at St Johnstone defined “eye-bleeding”.

[Since90+2]

I kept reading on here last season how we’d never make top 6 and we’d be lucky to avoid a relegation fight too.

I'd say it's probably as likely we'll finish bottom 6 as it is we'll finish 4th (we won't be 3rd IMO).

[GreenCastle]

Of course it’s theirs to lose, and they’re well favourite for third at this point, but they could easily lose their best player in the next few weeks. Without him they’d struggle massively.

This is basically the same Hearts squad and management team that managed to win 3, draw 3 and lose 7 of their last 13 league games last season.

Shankland being sold (or becoming injured) is the only small chance we have.

Surely they won’t sell him now as they know the importance of Europe - so he will probably leave at the end of the season.

It’s just been another crap season for Hibs results wise and as a fan - a decent Euro tie win but then pumped by Villa but apart from that not much to shout about.

Until the club start bringing in stronger characters and better players we will have to accept the inconsistency and let downs like the semi final and Derby.

[Skol]

I just don't agree with your last sentence. It's something that has been said and now been latched onto.

I'm not saying they weren't very good at "game management" but the idea they were not able to play football at all is wrong IMO. If it was that easy to simply be spoilers in every game and play defensively then more teams would do it and be successful.

He actually reminds me on Steve Clarke in the way he plays, it's pragmatic when it needs to be against better teams but expansive at times too.

Even if it was turgid, would you rather finish 3rd, get guaranteed group stage football but play slightly more conservative football, or finish somewhere between 9th-4th that we do the majority of the time.

On your last point, there is no guarantee we would achieve this. When we did finish third under Ross, the first sign of a bad run and that was deemed not good enough and anyone who wanted to give more time was accused of accepting mediocrity.

[Since90+2]

On your last point, there is no guarantee we would achieve this. When we did finish third under Ross, the first sign of a bad run and that was deemed not good enough and anyone who wanted to give more time was accused of accepting mediocrity.

Of course it's not guaranteed, nobody would ever claim that.

I wanted Ross kept on btw, and was amazed when he was sacked.

[The Modfather]

On your last point, there is no guarantee we would achieve this. When we did finish third under Ross, the first sign of a bad run and that was deemed not good enough and anyone who wanted to give more time was accused of accepting mediocrity.

It wasn’t just the bad run Ross was on it was following an abysmal summer recruitment.

We lost Jackson Irvine and signed the following players.

Dan Mackay
Jamie Murphy (permanent)
JDH
David Mitchell
James Scott
Nathan Wood

[B.H.F.C]

Montgomery has shown he can pick up points reasonably consistently for the most part. The last couple of weeks have been a major setback obviously.

But I don’t think it merits talk about not making the top six and stuff like that. It’s two weeks ago we were sitting above Hearts and two defeats for us have totally flipped things. That’s how quickly it changes. We need to get a win on Tuesday then let him start making the improvements to the squad.

We will not finish in the bottom six. How high up in the top six we finish, I don’t know.

[GreenCastle]

I also don’t think the style of play is bad / boring but I do think it doesn’t suit our players and you need exceptional players to play 4-4-2 and considering midfield has been an issue since SJM left playing a 3v2 in central midfield most weeks with a player less and Newell and Levitt isn’t going to work long term or even short term especially if Newell is unavailable.

I think we also over complicate how we play and maybe it’s Sergio’s influence as assistant - it’s interesting to see the patterns of play but we all know Scottish football is a simple game at time and you can’t play like that for example at Tynecastle as the pitch is so small and no space for patient build up.

It’s not long hoof ball football or possession without purpose but it’s a game which allows most teams to get 11 players behind ball and make it hard for us to break them down. That means we create less and we concede far ton many goals (also linked to having no defensive midfielder / dodgy back 4 and ageing keeper).

[Iain G]

I just don't agree with your last sentence. It's something that has been said and now been latched onto.

I'm not saying they weren't very good at "game management" but the idea they were not able to play football at all is wrong IMO. If it was that easy to simply be spoilers in every game and play defensively then more teams would do it and be successful.

He actually reminds me on Steve Clarke in the way he plays, it's pragmatic when it needs to be against better teams but expansive at times too.

Even if it was turgid, would you rather finish 3rd, get guaranteed group stage football but play slightly more conservative football, or finish somewhere between 9th-4th that we do the majority of the time.

Maybe social media made me think that then, instead of seeing it for myself? Maybe this new version of reality has warped my fragile little mind...maybe McInnes was Pep all along...who knows anymore!

[Since90+2]

Maybe social media made me think that then, instead of seeing it for myself? Maybe this new version of reality has warped my fragile little mind...maybe McInnes was Pep all along...who knows anymore!

Again, nobody had suggested he's Pep.

He is, without question, though a proven successful manager in this league.

[Iain G]

Again, nobody had suggested he's Pep.

He is, without question, though a proven successful manager in this league.

Meh! I just don't want his sour puss and dire football near my team. I find him a dull and uninspiring choice.

[Crunchie]

At least 2 years, sadly not many get anywhere near that.

[B.H.F.C]

And with fraction of our budget at his current club he's got them six points clear of us, quite possibly nine after today's fixtures.

Hearts will be 11 clear of us when they beat Ross County later so third's already gone for us, while McInnes is currently looking like the only manager who will challenge them. If he were to finish in the top 4 with Killie he'd have better offers than the Hibs job on his plate.

So both dropped points today. And the gaps not quite as predicted, which is unsurprising as your predictions of doom are usually wide of the mark.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

So both dropped points today. And the gaps not quite as predicted, which is unsurprising as your predictions of doom are usually wide of the mark.

As each week goes by, his statements about Hibs are becoming more accurate unfortunately. We're just a poor side.

[He's here!]

So both dropped points today. And the gaps not quite as predicted, which is unsurprising as your predictions of doom are usually wide of the mark.

Just wait until we fail to beat Motherwell ;-)

But yes, you're right. Not quite as predicted and I was surprised Hearts struggled today, but I guess it just underlines how fixated they are on the derby.

Bottom line though is that we've really shot ourselves in the foot lately. Ahead of Hearts just a couple of weeks ago, now 9 points back and looking over our shoulders at the teams below rather than upwards.

[Skol]

Just wait until we fail to beat Motherwell ;-)

But yes, you're right. Not quite as predicted and I was surprised Hearts struggled today, but I guess it just underlines how fixated they are on the derby.

Bottom line though is that we've really shot ourselves in the foot lately. Ahead of Hearts just a couple of weeks ago, now 9 points back and looking over our shoulders at the teams below rather than upwards.

Hearts were no great shakes on Wednesday

[Wilson]

Hearts were no great shakes on Wednesday

They are no great shakes but are getting results. We are no great shakes and have stopped getting them.

[B.H.F.C]

Just wait until we fail to beat Motherwell ;-)

But yes, you're right. Not quite as predicted and I was surprised Hearts struggled today, but I guess it just underlines how fixated they are on the derby.

Bottom line though is that we've really shot ourselves in the foot lately. Ahead of Hearts just a couple of weeks ago, now 9 points back and looking over our shoulders at the teams below rather than upwards.

We’ve lost two games, that’s how quickly it changes in this league.

You might be looking over your shoulder at the teams below, many others won’t be.

[Wilson]

We’ve lost two games, that’s how quickly it changes in this league.

You might be looking over your shoulder at the teams below, many others won’t be.

Yet...

[B.H.F.C]

As each week goes by, his statements about Hibs are becoming more accurate unfortunately. We're just a poor side.

I don’t think we’re a good side. I think the league is a bit of a competition to see who can be the least ***** of the rest rather than the best of the rest this season though.

As today shows, anybody is capable of dropping points to anyone and it really doesn’t take that much to completely change where you are. That’s why I’d not be ready to give up on anything at this point.

[Keepthefaith]

It interests me how quickly some coaches get dismissed and go on to do well elsewhere. De zerbi at Brighton, sacked in his first job at Palermo, then got Benevento relegated before going on to great success with sassulo and then shaktar.

Seems he was hired by sassulo ( by then his 3rd job) for the potential he had shown in the way his team played despite relegation.

Maybe, just maybe it's possible that Monty has potential, that he is also learning match to match, but under the arm of McDermott I think we need to give him time. Tried and tested managers don't always work out either...look at Chelsea and Man utd as good examples!

Many businesses appointment managers who grow with the organization, I reckon this is what hibs have seen. A really good individual who can support development over the next few years and who knows he might turn out to be more like de zerbi than we can imagine right now.

Have some patience, allow him time to shape his team. Some folk wanted us to go for kettlewell, Martindale, Robinson...until their results dropped off the edge of a cliff. There are no guarantees whoever we appointed so let's try and get behind the guy and the team, open critism that is disproportionate will only damage our chances of success

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Fans are fickle - very verucca salt and want their own way at any given opportunity.

Wtf are folk expecting ? Cup finals, 2nd, 3rd 4th in the league?

As long as I've been a Hibs fan I've rolled with the punches. Maybe I'm not an Uber fan but what the **** do people expect? Do I "bleed green"? Of course I don't. Who does?

We support the club through think and thin, good times and bad. That's what makes us "fans". Those in charge are custodians and will hand over control when appropriate.

I just enjoy watching Hibs. It's what I do, it's what I enjoy. If we win a trophy into the bargain I'll love it.

[He's here!]

Fans are fickle - very verucca salt and want their own way at any given opportunity.

Wtf are folk expecting ? Cup finals, 2nd, 3rd 4th in the league?

As long as I've been a Hibs fan I've rolled with the punches. Maybe I'm not an Uber fan but what the **** do people expect? Do I "bleed green"? Of course I don't. Who does?

We support the club through think and thin, good times and bad. That's what makes us "fans". Those in charge are custodians and will hand over control when appropriate.

I just enjoy watching Hibs. It's what I do, it's what I enjoy. If we win a trophy into the bargain I'll love it.

Pretty much the definition of 'accepting mediocrity'.

[BH1875]

It interests me how quickly some coaches get dismissed and go on to do well elsewhere. De zerbi at Brighton, sacked in his first job at Palermo, then got Benevento relegated before going on to great success with sassulo and then shaktar.

Seems he was hired by sassulo ( by then his 3rd job) for the potential he had shown in the way his team played despite relegation.

Maybe, just maybe it's possible that Monty has potential, that he is also learning match to match, but under the arm of McDermott I think we need to give him time. Tried and tested managers don't always work out either...look at Chelsea and Man utd as good examples!

Many businesses appointment managers who grow with the organization, I reckon this is what hibs have seen. A really good individual who can support development over the next few years and who knows he might turn out to be more like de zerbi than we can imagine right now.

Have some patience, allow him time to shape his team. Some folk wanted us to go for kettlewell, Martindale, Robinson...until their results dropped off the edge of a cliff. There are no guarantees whoever we appointed so let's try and get behind the guy and the team, open critism that is disproportionate will only damage our chances of success

But they don’t stick to a formation that isn’t working for the players they have available. I am totally behind NM still and agree we can’t keep changing managers but he needs to adapt to what we have. I didn’t like the hype when we signed levitt and I think I have seen proven correct because he is woeful in my opinion. Need a win on Tuesday GGTTH 🇳🇬

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Pretty much the definition of 'accepting mediocrity'.

Cheers - appreciate it

[WhileTheChief..]

Fans are fickle - very verucca salt and want their own way at any given opportunity.

Wtf are folk expecting ? Cup finals, 2nd, 3rd 4th in the league?

As long as I've been a Hibs fan I've rolled with the punches. Maybe I'm not an Uber fan but what the **** do people expect? Do I "bleed green"? Of course I don't. Who does?

We support the club through think and thin, good times and bad. That's what makes us "fans". Those in charge are custodians and will hand over control when appropriate.

I just enjoy watching Hibs. It's what I do, it's what I enjoy. If we win a trophy into the bargain I'll love it.

Speak for yourself!

I'm not fickle, I don't ever expect us to win cups or to finish 2nd in the league.

I don't however enjoy watching a crap Hibs team turning our crap results. Can't get my head around how you enjoy that but each to their own.

Thank God we've got someone about to put some cash into the club that does want to see us finishing 3rd every year and who won't be happy just so long as Hibs are playing each week.

They will be looking for us to win, which in sport is kinda the point for most of us.

[superfurryhibby]

Speak for yourself!

I'm not fickle, I don't ever expect us to win cups or to finish 2nd in the league.

I don't however enjoy watching a crap Hibs team turning our crap results. Can't get my head around how you enjoy that but each to their own.

Thank God we've got someone about to put some cash into the club that does want to see us finishing 3rd every year and who won't be happy just so long as Hibs are playing each week.

They will be looking for us to win, which in sport is kinda the point for most of us.



Watching Hibs, It's not a duty and I have definitely voted with my feet in the past, and will no doubt do so again.

A crap Hibs breeds apathy.

It's meant to be about entertainment and enjoying watching a game, I'm struggling to think of many matches where I've felt that this season. Luzern, St Mirren in the cup and the 0-0 v Celtic spring to mind. Mostly, it's been dire.

As you say, any investor will want to see improvement or dare I say it, success. That's the nature of ambition and there is definitely opportunity in our game for that. Far from being fickle or whatever pish, I see our fans continue to back the team, despite being let down so often. Given how badly wrong our owners have got the football side of things, I would say it's a testimony to our staying power as fans that we are still getting decent turnouts.

AS for how long before you criticise a manager, who knows, but when said manager can't adapt their approach, loses games to nearest rivals etc, then they become fair game. From what I see, NM is out of his depth. So far, not impressed.

[He's here!]

Cheers - appreciate it

You're welcome ;-)

I do respect your 'through thick and thin' approach and commend anyone who can put up with so much 'thin' and still roll up the next week. I just find it hard to see how the word 'enjoy' fits in there.

'Thick and thin' implies that things tend to balance out, but the truth is that with Hibs the thin comfortably outweighs the thick. I'm not talking about incredible moments like the 2016 cup win. I'm referring to the week-to-week experience, where genuinely enjoyable games are like diamonds in the rough. The norm, especially in recent years, is depressing mediocrity and maddening inconsistency.

I don't expect regular cup wins or second-place finishes, but I do expect a club of our size to carry a bit of clout and for other clubs to regard a trip to ER or a visit from Hibs as a big deal. Instead, the likes of Motherwell see us as the equivalent of a game against, say, St Mirren or St Johnstone. We inspire zero fear element in our opponents.

As for our derby record, it bewilders me to see posters who claim they're 'always confident' going into them or that 'only a win will do'. In fact I don't actually believe they really feel that way. Why on earth would they? Apart from the late 60s/Turnbull and McLeish eras plus a bit of the Stubbs/Lennon era our record in the fixture is embarrassingly awful.

[Since452]

As soon as it becomes apparent they are pretty hopeless. Easy to spot with the likes of Maloney and Montgomery to be honest. Both will have/had us finishing bottom six.

[VoltaireHibs]

Watching Hibs, It's not a duty and I have definitely voted with my feet in the past, and will no doubt do so again.

A crap Hibs breeds apathy.

It's meant to be about entertainment and enjoying watching a game, I'm struggling to think of many matches where I've felt that this season. Luzern, St Mirren in the cup and the 0-0 v Celtic spring to mind. Mostly, it's been dire.

As you say, any investor will want to see improvement or dare I say it, success. That's the nature of ambition and there is definitely opportunity in our game for that. Far from being fickle or whatever pish, I see our fans continue to back the team, despite being let down so often. Given how badly wrong our owners have got the football side of things, I would say it's a testimony to our staying power as fans that we are still getting decent turnouts.

AS for how long before you criticise a manager, who knows, but when said manager can't adapt their approach, loses games to nearest rivals etc, then they become fair game. From what I see, NM is out of his depth. So far, not impressed.


The interview after the derby was the first time I've thought - Hm, he doesn't look too confident here.

He did look a bit out of his depth tbh, a bit rabbit in the headlights. I wonder if he might now consider being a little more flexible in his tactics. Surely at some point self preservation would kick in and he'll switch it up for results? If not then I can't see out new investors being happy to preside over their money being spent and seeing nothing in return.

When I hear any manager talking about their philosophy I tend to think - Eff off to the agora - that's where philosophy belongs.

[Paul1642]

Shankland being sold (or becoming injured) is the only small chance we have.

Surely they won’t sell him now as they know the importance of Europe - so he will probably leave at the end of the season.

It’s just been another crap season for Hibs results wise and as a fan - a decent Euro tie win but then pumped by Villa but apart from that not much to shout about.

Until the club start bringing in stronger characters and better players we will have to accept the inconsistency and let downs like the semi final and Derby.

Players hold a fair bit of sway when it comes to wanting a move. Shankland is 28 years old and has never played above SPFL level. Scotlands biggest tournament in 26 years is approaching and he can’t get himself into Steve Clarke’s starting 11 or even second choice.

It a English Championship club come offering wages much above any he has ever known and first team football in a league were 6 months of good performances would likely make him a Scotland stater in Germany he will be doing everything in his power to make that happen.

18 months on his contract gives him decent leverage. He’s a summertime injury away from leaving on a free for 6 months of football.

As for the subject of the thread, NM, I still have complete faith. Tactics are possibly up for debate a little but in terms of the starting 11 he puts out each week there is basically no alternative. Our squad depth is non existent.

[Key West]

I also don’t think the style of play is bad / boring but I do think it doesn’t suit our players and you need exceptional players to play 4-4-2 and considering midfield has been an issue since SJM left playing a 3v2 in central midfield most weeks with a player less and Newell and Levitt isn’t going to work long term or even short term especially if Newell is unavailable.

I think we also over complicate how we play and maybe it’s Sergio’s influence as assistant - it’s interesting to see the patterns of play but we all know Scottish football is a simple game at time and you can’t play like that for example at Tynecastle as the pitch is so small and no space for patient build up.

It’s not long hoof ball football or possession without purpose but it’s a game which allows most teams to get 11 players behind ball and make it hard for us to break them down. That means we create less and we concede far ton many goals (also linked to having no defensive midfielder / dodgy back 4 and ageing keeper).

Most sensible post for a long time.

[basehibby]

Football Management is a multi-faceted role and there are no hard and fast rules defining the ingredients for success for any particular manager at any particular club. There are many different approaches that can be adopted and some coaches seem to have an instant impact - and perhaps fade - whereas some take time to implement their ideas.
Regardless of the style or approach, what us fans want to see is steady improvement - progress! - and consequent positive results on the field of play. Part of that is positive results in derbies and fans are always entitled to offer their critique in the wake of a derby defeat. I tend to agree with the OP though - that less than half a season in with no transfer windows is far too early to jump to conclusions re the overall competence and suitability of a new manager - regardless of derby record thus far.

I have my doubts about Monty's approach - adhering relentlessly to 442 seems one dimensional and over-predictable, as does an insistence on playing out from the back virtually all the time regardless of opposition. I'd be perfectly happy to be proven wrong on all counts though - his approach seems to be that of a purist rather than a pragmatist and he did a pretty amazing job with the Mariners down under playing that way. I'd be delighted to see things start to click in a similar fashion at Easter Road and am prepared to show a bit of patience to allow him to reshape the squad and get up a head of steam.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Would be interested to hear what the folk advocating 12 months/2, 3 or 4 windows think of the recent sackings of Johnson and Rooney down south?

From the outside looking in, both sackings looked like absolute no brainers. Neither of them had a transfer window, both were only dealing with the previous managers players. I’d find it hard to put forward a case for either of them being kept on based on results, although admittedly I don’t follow either team so somebody may be able to put forward a case.

[Northernhibee]

Would be interested to hear what the folk advocating 12 months/2, 3 or 4 windows think of the recent sackings of Johnson and Rooney down south?

From the outside looking in, both sackings looked like absolute no brainers. Neither of them had a transfer window, both were only dealing with the previous managers players. I’d find it hard to put forward a case for either of them being kept on based on results, although admittedly I don’t follow either team so somebody may be able to put forward a case.

I’d be interested in knowing if their fans seen two disappointing results as being grounds for a total (and very tedious) meltdown.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’d be interested in knowing if their fans seen two disappointing results as being grounds for a total (and very tedious) meltdown.

The OP made it very clear this thread was more of a general point than specific to any manager. I’ve also never mentioned NM.

People have indicated that, generally speaking, they believe managers deserve a year, numerous windows etc. Would be interesting to know if they therefore believe these two deserved longer. These two seemed, on the face of it, very deserved sackings.

[B.H.F.C]

Would be interested to hear what the folk advocating 12 months/2, 3 or 4 windows think of the recent sackings of Johnson and Rooney down south?

From the outside looking in, both sackings looked like absolute no brainers. Neither of them had a transfer window, both were only dealing with the previous managers players. I’d find it hard to put forward a case for either of them being kept on based on results, although admittedly I don’t follow either team so somebody may be able to put forward a case.

In both those cases they were in far worse positions than when they took over (significantly worse in Birmingham’s case). And with no sign of it changing.

If you take our current position, Montgomery has us in a better position than what he inherited and has taken a reasonable (not brilliant and should be better) number of points up until now.

Time isn’t just a given, you have to earn it and show something, whether it’s in performance or results. The ideal place to get to is that you are doing both, but short term there has to something. Neither of those two were doing anything.

[Paulie Walnuts]

In both those cases they were in far worse positions than when they took over (significantly worse in Birmingham’s case). And with no sign of it changing.

If you take our current position, Montgomery has us in a better position than what he inherited and has taken a reasonable (not brilliant and should be better) number of points up until now.

Time isn’t just a given, you have to earn it and show something, whether it’s in performance or results. The ideal place to get to is that you are doing both, but short term there has to something. Neither of those two were doing anything.

Agree, as I said above, this is unrelated to NM.

Agree with your last point as well. Theres a lot of posts on this thread suggesting managers need a year, or in some cases, multiple years when folk are saying they need 3 or 4 windows. If either of these two clubs gave these guys a year, or 3 or 4 windows then they’d be relegated and we’ve all seen plenty teams in England end up tumbling down the leagues at a rate of knots and ending up trying to stave off administration/liquidation.

I said early on in the thread that to me, there’s no defined length of time. It can become apparent pretty quickly whether someone will succeed or not. In the case of LJ and Rooney, they were both quite clearly destined to fail, regardless of whether they had a transfer window or not, so why hold on to them?

[Hibernia&Alba]

I’m a reasonable man: the new guy gets the entire first half of his first game. If we aren’t three goals up, he’s got to go, he won’t cut it.

[ScottB]

Depends what the circumstances are, and that’s on the club to communicate. We’ve sold some managers down the river in some ways. For example, if you bring someone in who wants to play a different system than what the squad has been doing, doing that mid season is always going to be very difficult, you’re potentially writing off some, or maybe even all, of that season until a squad can be assembled. Felt like that was an issue with Maloney and may be an issue with Montgomery.

I’m all for changing things up, but equally, at any level and especially at ours, it’s not unreasonable to expect a bit of having to p*ss with the c*ck you’ve got, as it were. It could take us 2 or 3 windows easy to build a starting 11 that can play the way NH wants, it just isn’t feasible for us to scrape along during that time and if the board have gone for this thinking it is, it’s probably going to go badly.

We have a squad, such as it is, and a lot of it isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. If they can’t play 442 etc then a decent manager should be able to find a system that does work until such times enough new players have arrived that we can give a new way a go.

But as said, the concern would be, if he’s been hired with this system change etc being a plan, then is it going any different than anyone at the club expects? My complaints are more directed at the club than NH himself at this point…

[GreenCastle]

Just wait till a new manager comes in after Monty and has to deal with players who can only play 4-4-2.

Can we not just have a manager who can play to players strengths and recruitment who can sign players who aren’t constant flops.

[NC1875]

He’ll be on telling us we played well again.

Unfortunately I think we’ve got another dud. His inability to play to our strengths(not that we have many) is baffling.

We are crap to watch and results have been generally rubbish since he came in.

Hope I’m wrong, but I think he’ll be gone by the summer.

[Since452]

I don't even blame Montgomery anymore. He's so far out of his depth and stubborn with it that I almost feel sorry for him. He's clueless. Kensell is the one who deserves most of the flack. Three utterly pish appointments in a row, the latest being a complete vanity project from the other side of the world.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't even blame Montgomery anymore. He's so far out of his depth and stubborn with it that I almost feel sorry for him. He's clueless. Kensell is the one who deserves most of the flack. Three utterly pish appointments in a row, the latest being a complete vanity project from the other side of the world.

:top marks

I kinda feel for NM but agree that he seems out of his depth.

Chat around me at the game today was that he shouldn’t get money to spend this month, see out the season, and then start again with another new manager!

Don’t think I’d go that far but I wouldn’t be disappointed if NM left anytime soon.

BK definitely needs to go. He sees making money on Melkerson as a success even though he barely kicked a ball for us. I see it as evidence that our recruitment policy is crap.

I want us to sign players to make us a better team, not to have a better turnover or profit. Until we shift the focus to that we’re going nowhere.

Man I hope the Black Knights ultimately buy the whole club and sort us out.

[Jim44]

I’ve no real desire to see the back of him yet, but, since his arrival, I’ve wondered how it would go. A guy from my hometown, a good Hibby, ex footballer and coaching at a low level, arrived back on holiday from Australia, at the same time as Monty’s arrival. I asked him what his thoughts were and mentioned how well he had done in Australia. He was really quite indifferent about Monty, adding ‘….. but the Australian A League is really, really terrible.’ I put it to the back of my mind, but I’m gradually beginning to wonder if it was a poor appointment.

[Scotty Leither]

Please tell me that Montgomery wasn’t posing for selfies with fans behind the dugout at the final whistle???

[Stokesy's on fire]

We need a real manager in

[CCM4LIFE]

He was really quite indifferent about Monty, adding ‘….. but the Australian A League is really, really terrible.’

Can you elaborate on what it is exactly that makes the A-League poor quality?

[WeeRussell]

Can you elaborate on what it is exactly that makes the A-League poor quality?

The supporters mostly 😁

[Ozyhibby]

We need a real manager in

We still sure that Derek McInnes is too negative for us?[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cubehindthegoal]

omg

Can we change the title of the thread to “How long before you criticise a manager who has had zero opportunity as yet to move on the players he will know he has to get rid of, and bring in new players to replace them, and that’s before he can even think of improving the current players we have who are the better ones!”

Hmm … perhaps it wouldn’t fit on the screen, so was shortened from what it should have said if it was accurate 🙄

[CCM4LIFE]

The supporters mostly ��

Scottish Football doesn't have to compete with NRL and AFL.

[Bridge hibs]

Please tell me that Montgomery wasn’t posing for selfies with fans behind the dugout at the final whistle???

Really ? Ffs he should be dragged up to the castle, pinned to a cross and be sliced from neck to toe with his entrails pulled out and then dragged down the Royal Mile

Then sacked

[Scotty Leither]

Maybe change the title to “How long before we criticise our Teflon coated CEO, who can’t seem to pick a manager to save his life?”

[Ozyhibby]

omg

Can we change the title of the thread to “How long before you criticise a manager who has had zero opportunity as yet to move on the players he will know he has to get rid of, and bring in new players to replace them, and that’s before he can even think of improving the current players we have who are the better ones!”

Hmm … perhaps it wouldn’t fit on the screen, so was shortened from what it should have said if it was accurate [emoji849]

Window is open now. He better get cracking. If he thinks he’s got time and a couple of windows then he is sadly mistaken.


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[Scotty Leither]

Really ? Ffs he should be dragged up to the castle, pinned to a cross and be sliced from neck to toe with his entrails pulled out and then dragged down the Royal Mile

Then sacked

I’d settle for him realising it maybe isn’t the best of looks after another lame display, but each to their own, I suppose.

[WhileTheChief..]

Can you elaborate on what it is exactly that makes the A-League poor quality?

Poor quality players at a guess?

People have always had their own thoughts on the strength of certain leagues. I don’t ever remember the Oz league being talked about as being a particularly strong one.

It’s never been mentioned anywhere that it is a league to keep an eye on and very few people give it much attention in Europe I doubt.

Prior to speculation linking NM to us, nobody ever talked about the A league or suggested we should go there to look for players or a manager.

I’d imagine that almost all of the Hibs fans who were excited about his appointment are now having second thoughts. The club would surely have expected things to improve more than they have.

Gotta admit that things have been pretty grim for a good while now.

[Jim44]

Can you elaborate on what it is exactly that makes the A-League poor quality?

No idea. I know next to nothing about Australian football. The point of my thread was that someone with good football knowledge and experience, who has lived in Australia for over 20 years, was highly critical of the quality of top level Australian football. Take what you want from that.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe change the title to “How long before we criticise our Teflon coated CEO, who can’t seem to pick a manager to save his life?”

To be fair, he gets loads of Cristian but the reality is, if the team is poor (and it is worse than poor) then the manager gets the bullet. That’s just the way it is.


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[cubehindthegoal]

To be fair, he gets loads of Cristian but the reality is, if the team is poor (and it is worse than poor) then the manager gets the bullet. That’s just the way it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But shouldn’t it be the manager(s) who have chosen to keep/buy these players that gets the bullet ? That’s not the current manager … perhaps we should warn a manager when we interview them, that we expect success based on keeping what players we have that he may think aren’t good enough, and getting in no new players at all that he thinks we need … that’s the current situation for the current manager … and our current manager would’ve deserved that honesty if that’s how it really is surely ?

[Bridge hibs]

I’d settle for him realising it maybe isn’t the best of looks after another lame display, but each to their own, I suppose.

My young Nephew was chuffed as **** after getting a selfie with Montgomery after the game, maybe he is too young to understand the meaning of winning, drawing or losing, he doesn't have much going on in his young life so this absolutely made his day

Don't worry though, I will knock that enthusiasm out of him next time I see the little **** !

[eastmainsmsh]

He’ll be on telling us we played well again.

Unfortunately I think we’ve got another dud. His inability to play to our strengths(not that we have many) is baffling.

We are crap to watch and results have been generally rubbish since he came in.

Hope I’m wrong, but I think he’ll be gone by the summer.

Ditto

If he won’t change his system it will only go one way I’m afraid

[Trinity Hibee]

Hibernian manager Nick Montgomery: "I thought we showed big character. We've got three 16/17 year-olds on the pitch and Harry McKirdy who has come back from a life-threatening situation [heart surgery].

"I thought first 30 minutes we were superb and could have gone in a couple of goals to the good at half-time. The stats tell you - 70% possession, 500 passes to 250. But ultimately it's moments in the game.

"I've said to the lads at the end, we can play as well as that but we've conceded from a throw-in, a poor goal to concede from. And it's a free kick where possibly the boy's offside as it's played back in."

[Real Emerald]

But shouldn’t it be the manager(s) who have chosen to keep/buy these players that gets the bullet ? That’s not the current manager … perhaps we should warn a manager when we interview them, that we expect success based on keeping what players we have that he may think aren’t good enough, and getting in no new players at all that he thinks we need … that’s the current situation for the current manager … and our current manager would’ve deserved that honesty if that’s how it really is surely ?


It’s got to the stage now where it’s a real chore watching the play getting slowed down all the time and sucking any momentum out of the game. There is absolutely no doubt we need players in which should help but this style of play is completely turning me off from wanting to go. It’s like watching cricket.

[Iain G]

I don't even blame Montgomery anymore. He's so far out of his depth and stubborn with it that I almost feel sorry for him. He's clueless. Kensell is the one who deserves most of the flack. Three utterly pish appointments in a row, the latest being a complete vanity project from the other side of the world.

If you keep repeating your mantra over and over then maybe someone else will believe it. It's bollocks though. Vanity project! I guess Ange was a vanity project as well?

[Hibees1973]

Can you elaborate on what it is exactly that makes the A-League poor quality?

One example is Jason Cummings.

He was the top goal scorer for Montgomery last season at CCM and 2nd top goal scorer in the A league.

The condition he is now in and the level he is now at, if he was to come back to Scotland his level would be Scottish Championship, probably Arbroath or Inverness.

[WhileTheChief..]

If you keep repeating your mantra over and over then maybe someone else will believe it. It's bollocks though. Vanity project! I guess Ange was a vanity project as well?

Is it really bollocks? There’s not many voices of support for NM around ER. Have you ever heard a song in support of him for example?

You were wanting us to stick with Maloney and LJ and now you’re having a go at folk who are critical of NM. Maybe they’re right and you’ve got it wrong?!

[WeeRussell]

Scottish Football doesn't have to compete with NRL and AFL.

I wasn’t being serious.

In fact, having attended a Melbourne Victory home game in the past. The supporters (and Honda) were the best things about the experience.

[Hibees1973]

I don't even blame Montgomery anymore. He's so far out of his depth and stubborn with it that I almost feel sorry for him. He's clueless. Kensell is the one who deserves most of the flack. Three utterly pish appointments in a row, the latest being a complete vanity project from the other side of the world.

Know you have come in for a bit of criticism for this but so far I can't see how anyone could argue with your points. They are all facts, to date.

I still support Montgomery and he deserves a couple of transfer windows. However, my initial optimism has drained away over the last few weeks. In hindsight my optimism was probably triggered by that clown Johnson being sacked eventually.

Montgomery has not 'turned us around' as he said a couple of days ago. Nowhere near it.

His stubbornness and rigidity with 4-4-2, suicidal playing out of the back and his obsession in quoting possession stats is starting to grate with me.

[sean]

I would like to ask Nick what his plan is when the opposition dont press your building out from the back and surrender the middle of the pitch and just defend there own box as motherwell done today.

8 of the 10 teams in the league will do this and even hearts done it in smells the other night. We can have 500 passes all you want its not doing anything. There was a 'bounce' when monty came in but it looks now as if managers have worked out how to play Hibs and we are good for a point if you sit deep and dont allow our pace in behind.

we've gone from being a bit of a shambles and occasionally brilliant under lee too pedestrian and monotonous under Monty with the same players.

He needs time, he deserves time of course but im getting Maloney style vibes all over again.

[greenlex]

Is it really bollocks? There’s not many voices of support for NM around ER. Have you ever heard a song in support of him for example?

You were wanting us to stick with Maloney and LJ and now you’re having a go at folk who are critical of NM. Maybe they’re right and you’ve got it wrong?!
Aye it’s bollocks.

[B.H.F.C]

Hibernian manager Nick Montgomery: "I thought we showed big character. We've got three 16/17 year-olds on the pitch and Harry McKirdy who has come back from a life-threatening situation [heart surgery].

"I thought first 30 minutes we were superb and could have gone in a couple of goals to the good at half-time. The stats tell you - 70% possession, 500 passes to 250. But ultimately it's moments in the game.

"I've said to the lads at the end, we can play as well as that but we've conceded from a throw-in, a poor goal to concede from. And it's a free kick where possibly the boy's offside as it's played back in."

It’s pretty difficult to disagree with that. We were playing well, lost a goal out of nothing and lost our way. We had next to no options to change things and needed a 17 year old to come on in the middle of the park and give us a bit of spark.

[sean]

It’s pretty difficult to disagree with that. We were playing well, lost a goal out of nothing and lost our way. We had next to no options to change things and needed a 17 year old to come on in the middle of the park and give us a bit of spark.

We can agree with that mate but how many times has this happened now?

We dont impose ourselves on the opposition enough and its for short spells. Not buying the kids on the bench chat either, as I said on another thread loads of clubs are stacked with youngsters on the bench.

It was a poor performance overall, it could have been Maloney or LJ in the dugout, you'd never have known any different.

I am not against monty at all seems a right decent bloke but we seem to be falling into a familiar trap once again.

[B.H.F.C]

We can agree with that mate but how many times has this happened now?

We dont impose ourselves on the opposition enough and its for short spells. Not buying the kids on the bench chat either, as I said on another thread loads of clubs are stacked with youngsters on the bench.

It was a poor performance overall, it could have been Maloney or LJ in the dugout, you'd never have known any different.

I am not against monty at all seems a right decent bloke but we seem to be falling into a familiar trap once again.

We keep seeing it because we have too many of the same players making the same mistakes. We’ve had pretty much nothing of any note to defend today but manage to lose a goal from a throw in and a free kick.

The thing about the young players is that they aren’t just sitting on our bench. We’re having to put them on the pitch. Whittaker looks miles away for me and that’s not a criticism of him, he’s 16.

It’s another game that we should have won but simply can’t defend.

[BoomtownHibees]

Have you ever heard a song in support of him for example?

As recent as Livi away there was a song about him

[CCM4LIFE]

No idea. I know next to nothing about Australian football. The point of my thread was that someone with good football knowledge and experience, who has lived in Australia for over 20 years, was highly critical of the quality of top level Australian football. Take what you want from that.

There's nothing at all to take away from that.

[FilipinoHibs]

There's nothing at all to take away from that.

Been to a few Melbourne Victory games. My take on Oz football is that is fast, physical and athletic but skill levels well below those of the SPL

[007]

Our best players were performing a hell of a lot better than they are now.

Boyle had 0.57 per start before NM. He’s got 0.4 goal involvements per start under NM.

Youan had 0.6 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.5 goal involvements per start under NM.

Vente had a 0.4 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.375 goal involvements per start under NM.

Joe Newell had 0.44 goal involvements per start before NM. He’s got 0.27 goal involvements per start under NM. He was also just generally playing out his skin earlier in the season before NM arrived.

They are really, in theory, meant to be our 4 main men. All of them are having much less impact on games in n this system. That combines to 0.465 goal opportunities lost from our best players per game from before he came in, or 8 goals over NMs 17 games. Yes he’s getting more from others, but it’s at the expense of our best players. Whilst it’s picked up some alright results so far, it doesn’t seem feasible that you can reduce the output of your best players that much and be successful long term.

That's wrong. Some of the goals involved 2 of those players so they'd both have been credited with a goal involvement but it was only 1 goal for Hibs.

[B.H.F.C]

That's wrong. Some of the goals involved 2 of those players so they'd both have been credited with a goal involvement but it was only 1 goal for Hibs.

Things getting a wee bit blown out of proportion at times IMO.

Youan is one example for me. After yesterday that’s him scored six goals under Montgomery, he only got nine in the whole of last season (which he’s already matched) yet I keep reading that the manager is totally stifling him.

I keep arguing Montgomery’s case, not because I agree with everything he’s doing, far from it. I just think some of the criticism towards him is a bit over the top. Everything poor that is happening seems to be down to him rather than the players at the moment when I think the truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle.

[Since452]

If you keep repeating your mantra over and over then maybe someone else will believe it. It's bollocks though. Vanity project! I guess Ange was a vanity project as well?

Ange is a good Premier League manager with bags of experience including managing his country. Montgomery is managing Hibs, badly, after 60 games in Australia. Rediculous comparison.