The LJ and NM paradox

[McGruber]

So LJ had to go and happier with NM in charge. NM has clearly improved us since taking over. However.. best we've been this season was v Luzern at home under LJ and can't see NM getting as good a performane from us. So happier with NM but LJ's best effort a better watch - scoring more goals (also conceding more). Don't know what to think

[Jones28]

There’s been a lot of other positives to come out of Johnson being punted. Tavares and Marshall for one thing, I think Rocky has improved and Fish has shaken off his poor start to the season.

The Lucerne result was great, good game and performance. I also watched as get beaten at home by livi and away to Escaldes, for every bit as a good as Lucerne at home was they were dreadful performances.

NM has us playing a more consistent way that is working more often than it isn’t. He does need players, and I want to see him be more flexible but the guy has a system he believes in and I don’t mind that. Let him make some signings that suit his system.

My biggest criticism is his chronically poor deployment of Vente who must be asking himself why he’s putting in the doggies week in week out for **** all service.

[Winston Ingram]

So LJ had to go and happier with NM in charge. NM has clearly improved us since taking over. However.. best we've been this season was v Luzern at home under LJ and can't see NM getting as good a performane from us. So happier with NM but LJ's best effort a better watch - scoring more goals (also conceding more). Don't know what to think

Is it? We are just as crap in defence as we were under LJ. The only difference now is we create significantly less chances.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Is it? We are just as crap in defence as we were under LJ. The only difference now is we create significantly less chances.

I’m struggling to see a clear improvement as well.

If you narrow it down to the 3 league games at the start of the season and discount the European games then absolutely. If you include last season as well though then I can’t say I think we look any better at all. Our ppg total is marginally batter than last season but performance wise I’m not seeing it. Lots of people seeing they can see what Monty is trying to do, whilst I would agree I can see what he’s trying to do, I have no idea why he’s trying to do it.

[K-Zazu]

There’s been a lot of other positives to come out of Johnson being punted. Tavares and Marshall for one thing, I think Rocky has improved and Fish has shaken off his poor start to the season.

The Lucerne result was great, good game and performance. I also watched as get beaten at home by livi and away to Escaldes, for every bit as a good as Lucerne at home was they were dreadful performances.

NM has us playing a more consistent way that is working more often than it isn’t. He does need players, and I want to see him be more flexible but the guy has a system he believes in and I don’t mind that. Let him make some signings that suit his system.

My biggest criticism is his chronically poor deployment of Vente who must be asking himself why he’s putting in the doggies week in week out for **** all service.

So if we sign players to suit his system, who drops out of the first eleven?

[Since452]

I always felt we were on the verge of spanking a team under LJ with the amount of chances we created and on a few occasions we did. We were poor at the back though. Always thought we were a bit rudderless with no real plan but with serious potential in the team. We are now slightly better at the back and have next to no attacking threat.

[Jones28]

So if we sign players to suit his system, who drops out of the first eleven?

Newalls partner drops out, I don’t think Jeggo or Levitt are particularly suited to it but Jeggo is more than Levitt.

Vente needs a better strike partner than what we have, I’m surprised Doidge hasn’t been used more.

[Stokesy's on fire]

We are no better under NM

[WestStandWillie]

So if we sign players to suit his system, who drops out of the first eleven?

Players who are struggling to adapt to the system.

[Walkerbaws]

NM has a clear style of play that he wants to implement that he thinks will in the long run win us games. Right now he doesn’t have the personnel to implement that system. If the players we have now can’t implement it, then I’m really struggling to think that we can get in any better than we have now.

That being said, how long can he persist in this style of play with us not winning games or creating any chances.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Players who are struggling to adapt to the system.

All of them then?

[jeffers]

It feels a bit similar to Maloney’s time for me. I thought I could see what he wanted to do but he didn’t have the players to do that, yet stuck with it regardless. The difference is I believe we will back Monty this coming window, but if we don’t see an improvement then the knives will be out.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It feels a bit similar to Maloney’s time for me. I thought I could see what he wanted to do but he didn’t have the players to do that, yet stuck with it regardless. The difference is I believe we will back Monty this coming window, but if we don’t see an improvement then the knives will be out.

Agree with it feeling similar to Maloney. Whether we back him or not I just don’t see it being succesful.

Unless we sign the second coming of SJM who can do pretty much every aspect of midfield play better than everyone else in the league to play alongside Newell then we’re going to continue to struggle.

I’ve also no idea what kind of players we need for left and right mid in this system. It’s certainly not wingers as it asks for too much of them defensively and they start off far too deep, but if we went more down the Henderson type route of player then I think we’ll look even blunter in attack than we do now.

[ehf]

ALF was key to the performance against Luzern. He should be back soon but difficult to see how he would fit into NM’s system.

[JammyDoidger]

We were far better to watch under Johnson imo, we created plenty chances and usually scored goals, problem was it was irritating how many daft goals we lost..but suppose that was because we were so open, this style under Monty is brutal, he is hindering us by playing his style, I've no doubt in my mind if we played Boyle and Youan down the sides and had vente in the box we would be better. Even having Jeggo newell and Levitt in midfield would see us compete, it's frustrating as we can all see it.

[May21/05/216]

Your having laugh Johnson is a fraud of manager
Montgomery haven't signed 1 player yet

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[Posh Swanny]

I’m sure NM has a plan but why Doidge isn’t playing alongside Vente is a mystery to me. Would surely help Vente by linking up play more. I assume the plan is for the pace of Boyle to stretch the opposition defence, but other than Aberdeen it hasn’t really worked at all.

[Stuart93]

What is this clear playing style that NM has?

Apart from passing it out from the GK I don’t see any clear playing style

[ozhibs]

So if we sign players to suit his system, who drops out of the first eleven?

Hate to be a pessimist, but i was having this discussion about i thought we needed 5-6 players in the Jan window, and this question was asked and I could n,t name any i would miss, maybe Fish, Marshall, Jair,
GGTTH

[Eyrie]

Players who are struggling to adapt to the system.

Which is too many of them, so that's the wrong way to think.

Right now Montgomery has to adapt his tactics to suit the players he has available. We may be able to pick up a couple of players in January but it's not until the summer that he can make the wholesale changes to the squad that are required for how he wants us to play.

Montgomery can be a good manager for us if he is intelligent enough to be adaptable in the short term whilst still working towards his long term plan. However that long term plan requires far better players than we currently have who are comfortable zipping the passes around to create openings because there are plenty of teams in this league who are willing to graft and press us if we're ponderous and static when in possession.

[neil7908]

So if we sign players to suit his system, who drops out of the first eleven?

We need to be more ruthless imo. Hanlon and Stevenson were great servants for us but have been rightly replaced this year.

Guys like Boyle, Campbell, Levitt, Miller and Rocky all have not performed consistently enough for me this season to anything close to undroppable.

[NC1875]

He might have a system he wants to play. But it doesn’t work with the squad we have.

I wanted NM when it was clear we weren’t after McInnes but his stubbornness to adapt to suit our strengths is really starting to make me dislike him.

It’s clear as day we’d be better with Boyle and Youan/Jair out wide and Vente playing as a striker instead of a midfielder. When we attack Ventes 30 yards from goal.

Last night when Hearts attacked, Shankland was on the last man nearly all night. We have Boyle on the last man and never once had the creativity to get a pass in behind.

It’s not working. He needs to change or he’ll be gone because he’s not signing that many players in January to suddenly suit his “system”

[B.H.F.C]

It feels a bit similar to Maloney’s time for me. I thought I could see what he wanted to do but he didn’t have the players to do that, yet stuck with it regardless. The difference is I believe we will back Monty this coming window, but if we don’t see an improvement then the knives will be out.

I see similarity to Maloney in terms of the way we play.

Two totally different systems but the way the games are panning out is becoming very similar. For all the talk of the system, I think our way of playing is much more of an issue. Second half last night, they had to sense the game was there for the taking and go for it but we just keep doing the same robotic things.

Hearts did absolutely nothing fancy last night. Right from kick off they put us under pressure. Win a throw, win a corner from that, launch the resulting throw in to the box and win a penalty. Sometimes that is all you need to do. We rarely make team defend for any period of time, we have a wee attack then everything calms down and we’ll have another wee go 5 or 10 minutes later. Last few weeks have been absolutely crap after some initial promising signs IMO.

[B.H.F.C]

So if we sign players to suit his system, who drops out of the first eleven?

You could drop most of the team. Newell is the best of the midfield and Marshall has improved big time in the last couple of months. Beyond that, nobody has done or is doing enough.

[WhileTheChief..]

All of them then?

Pretty much, yeah!!

Put it this way, in the past we had players that I was gutted to see leave, whereas now? Is there any player we would sorely miss if they left tomorrow?

We're on our 4th manager since the Gordon's took over and the quality of players in the squad has got weaker.

[Ronniekirk]

I am not seeing enough to make me want to go to games week in week out Doidge was key to the way we played against Killie in his fist game in charge When he went off injured we weren’t the same team
We were padding at pace and had runners all over the place creating space and options
We have looked sluggish ,static and not able at times to make right decisions , and lgifting the ball away or being turned over to easy , polluting opponents on front foot
It’s not been working the last few games and thsts now two. Ack to back defeats and first loss at Easter Rd
So many forward players not scoring and two bad mistakes in defence have led to getting beat 1 0
Another injury last night and players will be way on international duty at a key point in the season
Not sure what the transfer window will bring But if teams below us pick up points in games in hand and we continue to pick up points , we are back in bottom six
But let’s see how things pan out .

[Skol]

This is nothing like watching hibs under maloney.

[SlickShoes]

What makes people think that the players we have are capable of playing this magic other style or setup that the manager isn’t able to use?

We are pretty crap and have been for ages, the new manager has the same players the last manager brought in and they aren’t good enough. Nothing will change until we have different players.

[Hibees1973]

I'm with Montgomery, but I have growing concerns.

This playing out at the back is a horror show at times. He plays Boyle out of position and Montgomery has not solved the soft underbelly we have had for the last 3 or 4 years. Montgomery is one dimensional and stubborn.

Why it is in tight games I have little, no confidence we will win even with the string of managers we have had over the last 5 years.

We can forget about 3rd unless there is a huge transformation in the transfer window. We desperately need some steel in the middle of defence and midfield.
If this is not solved we will be lucky to be top 6.

[Waxy]

Its Hibs. We could have Klopp manage us for a derby and they could pick someone off the street.
They’d still beat us and probably in the usual horrific fashion.

[LeithMike]

I definitely think there was a significant improvement when NM took over. There was a clear increase in effort and purpose and we’ve looked more organised defensively too.

Since the semi-final we’ve started to go a bit backwards though and I think we are now a bit one-dimensional and predictable and relatively easy to play against.

We take an age to get the ball forward, allowing teams to get nicely positioned defensively and have to work very hard to manufacture goal-scoring chances.

I thought Hearts controlled large parts of the games last night and looked to do what we are trying to do a little bit better because of numbers in the middle of the park.

We looked very rigid in the formation with our front four in a flat line a lot of the time with our central midfield two very deep leaving a huge gap between them, where Hearts regularly picked up the second ball.

I am hoping NM can improve on this but I am not convinced that just getting better players will be enough and that, in the current formation, we are playing (or at least how we execute it) like a clock with a missing cog in between midfield and attack.

Also think we are becoming increasingly passive through the way we play and lacked the determination to go out and win the game last night.

Overall, very disappointing as there was a lot of initial promise. Hopefully we can push on but the recent pattern of our play is concerning.


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