Standard of Scottish football

[AugustaHibs]

That was honestly laughable.

Two of the ‘biggest’ teams in the country who couldn’t string a pass together and when the ball gets in the final third have no clue what to do with it.

No wonder sky don’t want to televise any of that *****.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It was a dire game, devoid of quality. If you’re a neutral, you’re not sitting through it to the end. I wish I didn’t have to watch it until the end too.

[Paulie Walnuts]

That was one of the worst derbies I can remember. If it had ended a draw I’d say both teams should have been embarrassed but after picking up the win Hearts won’t give a hoot.

[The Captain....]

Professional players incapable of passing a football...the standard is pitiful.

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[Joe6-2]

= pis* dross, crap

[Pretty Boy]

I watched Spartans v Stranraer at the weekend in driving wind and rain and enjoyed it more than that steaming pile of dug***** we were served up tonight.

Much like Aberdeen last year getting 3rd this season isn't about who is a good team, it will come down to who is the least bad. Right now not one of us, Hearts or Aberdeen are any good but Hearts have a striker who makes them the least bad.

A neutral watching that tonight would believe every cliché about 'farmers league', 'my nan would score 25 a season' and 'would struggle in League 2 in England' and they would have good reason to do so. It was grim viewing and bar a 10 minute spell in the 2nd half and the 2 penalties I was pretty bored throughout.

[SHODAN]

We wouldn't give a **** if we'd won.

[Stanton Spence]

I was saying exactly this to my mate the other day and just now on another thread.
Even if hibs had won tonight it was still horrible to watch at times and the amount of bad first touches and misplaced passes even basic stuff is verging on semi pro level
Even the old firm are starting to get skelped in Europe and I’m mystified that the **** managed to win their group this season
I really hope this investment getting talked about is a right few quid and a game changer for us and Scottish football as I’m 51 now and never thought I’d be this detached from the game as I am now

[Tyler Durden]

It was garbage but not too far away from many English Championship games I’ve seen in recent years.

[wookie70]

Montgomery seemed to think it was a good game and given his comments I presume he never had a very good view. For me it was two very poor side who can't pass the ball and lack composure, movement and vision. Lots of anti football and a referee determined to make a poor game worse didn't help the spectacle. There wasn't even the harem skarem with tackles flying in you used to get in Derbies as the rules and VAR have stopped that. Basically a very boring game like most of them are these days.

I'm not keen on the style of play Montgomery wants to play even when done well. I don't even think it is possible to do it well with our budget and in this league.

I can always forgive Hibs teams who play entertaining football but don't always get the rewards. This team is terrible to watch and I can't see it getting much better in the short or medium term. You would need a good few years of it being embedded in the academy and I doubt the boss will last that long. We are basically Maloney's type of football but with a few better players. As the penalties showed you are going to be successful by getting the ball in the box as often as possible and by that I mean the opposition's box.

Montgomery comes across as a decent guy and it is difficult not to admire his single-mindedness and determination but that will only get him so long in this league. His points per game will see us finish around mid table so that may be the last home Derby this year. He will be a brave man to keep playing the same way but it seems it is all he knows or wants to know.

[Since452]

Two poor teams. An embarrassing advert for Scottish football. A great finish from a striker bang in form was the difference but it was so poor it was almost entertaining.

[Torto7]

The whole league is pish. Practically every game is a scrappy snooze fest.

[California-Hibs]

Hearts will obviously celebrate it and not care but both of us were absolutely terrible. You could argue we had the more shots on goal but the game on a whole was horrific. No chance a neutral watching that would stick with it to the end. Not a good advert at all.

[Since90+2]

It was garbage but not too far away from many English Championship games I’ve seen in recent years.

We'd be relegated from the English Championship.

[Nicho87]

Players gave everything though

[Winston Ingram]

2 awful teams.

[B.H.F.C]

There were spells in that game where the two teams just continually passed the ball to each other. Had we went up the park and scored, none of us would give a **** but the last three games I’ve been at (Livi, St Johnstone and last night) the standard has been absolutely abysmal.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If ever there was a game where both teams deserved to lose, that was it.

Frustrating thing for me is, despite the standard, last night has left us as massive outsiders to get third place, which in reality now, is the only one that really matters. For that to be the case before the turn of the year is absolutely pish.

[AugustaHibs]

Lewis miller, levitt, jeggo etc are utterly abysmal footballers and I won’t hear otherwise.

[Stevie Reid]

Just watching MOTD and even the commentator said that the first half of the Forest v Man Utd game was awful. Think how much money has been spent on those two squads, even in just the last two seasons.

***** games happen at all levels of football. I’ve watched many awful games in the EPL, loads of crap OF games, and plenty in the English lower leagues, where money is much more abundant than it is in Scotland.

I think the English Championship is in the top five richest leagues in the world, but at 46 games a season, dozens and dozens of those will be terrible games.

Scottish football is fiercely competitive and delivers no shortage of drama every season. The standard isn’t amazing but it’s far from terrible, and for the comparative lack of money spent on it compared to many other leagues in Europe, isn’t bad at all.

[easty]

Lewis miller, levitt, jeggo etc are utterly abysmal footballers and I won’t hear otherwise.

You’re clueless then.

[He's here!]

Just watching MOTD and even the commentator said that the first half of the Forest v Man Utd game was awful. Think how much money has been spent on those two squads, even in just the last two seasons.

***** games happen at all levels of football. I’ve watched many awful games in the EPL, loads of crap OF games, and plenty in the English lower leagues, where money is much more abundant than it is in Scotland.

I think the English Championship is in the top five richest leagues in the world, but at 46 games a season, dozens and dozens of those will be terrible games.

Scottish football is fiercely competitive and delivers no shortage of drama every season. The standard isn’t amazing but it’s far from terrible, and for the comparative lack of money spent on it compared to many other leagues in Europe, isn’t bad at all.

As you say, it's not just the standard of Scottish football which is poor. The game itself is massively over-hyped, over-exposed and, frankly, over-rated.

[BILLYHIBS]

Anyone in any doubt about the state of our national sport need only watch last night’s Sportscene where every one of Saturday’s games were end to end fairly fought with lots of goals plenty of excitement and talking points and some fine individual performances

[greenlex]

Anyone in any doubt about the state of our national sport need only watch last night’s Sportscene where every one of Saturday’s games were end to end fairly fought with lots of goals plenty of excitement and talking points and some fine individual performances

Aye but it’s crap.

[The_Exile]

Certainly the top flight is as the stage now where it's so bad you can't help but watch it just to make sure you're definitely not seeing things. Players not being able to pass the ball properly when it's the thing that puts food on the table for them is quite astonishing. Although I'm not quite at the Derek Adams level of seethe about it all.


The (Scottish) championship is still one of the best leagues going though IMO, and there's plenty entertaining football on show away down the tiers in the likes of the East of Scotland leagues if you ever manage to get along to the odd game that's local to you.

[jeffers]

Certainly the top flight is as the stage now where it's so bad you can't help but watch it just to make sure you're definitely not seeing things. Players not being able to pass the ball properly when it's the thing that puts food on the table for them is quite astonishing. Although I'm not quite at the Derek Adams level of seethe about it all.


The (Scottish) championship is still one of the best leagues going though IMO, and there's plenty entertaining football on show away down the tiers in the likes of the East of Scotland leagues if you ever manage to get along to the odd game that's local to you.

Agree re the top flight, bar the OF. I thought the standard in the recent derby was awful. Conditions weren’t that bad, the pitch is arguably the best it’s been yet the amount of misplaced places was a joke.

[Pretty Boy]

I've said before I think it's a very Premiership specific issue in Scotland. I watch a lot of lower league games in Scotland and whilst I'd struggle to argue the quality is amazing, the games are generally pretty exciting. The coaches are all highly qualified but they don't seem as prescriptive as those at top flight clubs from the first team through the youth set up. Actually trying to go out and win a game is still the first thought in mind most of the time.

I think a lot of it is a hangover from COVID. Another poster made a similar point a couple to days ago. Finances were so perilous that relegation could have been catastrophic for some Premierhsip clubs. It mean that not losing became more of a concern than trying to win a game. The whole set up became more safety first and players seem to have become more conservative and nervy because of that. Add to that the obsession across football from CEOs to fans with stats and you can see why the mavericks and high risk players who make the game exciting are fewer and further between.

I think the latter part is a wider issue which goes some way to explaining the examples of crap games in the EPL and Championship down there. Pass completion, duels won and other assorted data carries more weight than the influence on a game people just see with their eyes and with recruitment, at least initially, being so much more remote these days it's only natural players worry about 'getting their stats up'. That leads to that more cautious approach.

It would be ridiculous to suggest you don't still get exciting games and exciting players but I find football increasingly dull, robotic and regimented these days and it can often feel worse the higher up the levels you go. Fads and fashions exist in any business and football coaching will be no different, everyone involved will deny they are part of the issue but the majority of coaches are attending the same courses so it's only natural they all follow the same philosophy, until the next one comes along and becomes dominant.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I've said before I think it's a very Premiership specific issue in Scotland. I watch a lot of lower league games in Scotland and whilst I'd struggle to argue the quality is amazing, the games are generally pretty exciting. The coaches are all highly qualified but they don't seem as prescriptive as those at top flight clubs from the first team through the youth set up. Actually trying to go out and win a game is still the first though in mind most of the time.

I think a lot of it is a hangover from COVID. Another poster made a similar point a couple to days ago. Finances were so perilous that relegation could have been catastrophic for some Premierhsip clubs. It mean that not losing became more of a concern than trying to win a game. The whole set up became more safety first and players seem to have become more conservative and nervy because of that. Add to that the obsession across football from CEOs to fans with stats and you can see why the mavericks and high risk players who make the game exciting are fewer and further between.

I think the latter part is a wider issue which goes some way to explaining the examples of crap games in the EPL and Championship down there. Pass completion, duels won and other assorted data carries more weight than the influence on a game people just see with their eyes and with recruitment, at least initially, being so much more remote these days it's only natural players worry about 'getting their stats up'. That leads to that more cautious approach.

It would be ridiculous to suggest you don't still get exciting games and exciting players but I find football increasingly dull and regimented these days and it can often feel worse the higher up the levels you go.

I would agree with most of that, on the whole I think I've enjoyed the Friday night Championship games more than most of the top division games I've watched. A lot of that could be down to the one sided nature of the games that the old firm are involved in when not playing each other and also Hibs not being a great watch this season.

[AugustaHibs]

Anyone in any doubt about the state of our national sport need only watch last night’s Sportscene where every one of Saturday’s games were end to end fairly fought with lots of goals plenty of excitement and talking points and some fine individual performances

Pub football can be entertaining, doesn’t mean the standard is good.

The quality of players and teams in the top league in this country is awful.

[BILLYHIBS]

Pub football can be entertaining, doesn’t mean the standard is good.

The quality of players and teams in the top league in this country is awful.
I actually prefer the hurly burly of Scottish football always have and you do get some piss poor games in the EPL but yes the overall standard and quality is better you get what you pay for

Looking back on Wednesday night the overall standard and quality of our play was really poor very frustrating to watch god knows what the rest of the UK thought of it on Sky Sports ?

I despair for Hibs just now certainly not worth the admission money to watch that crock of sh#t trying to control or pass the ball pick out a Hibs shirt or even keep their head and knee over the ball to have a shot on target even the tactics look wrong DiscoDoidge should have been on sooner Vente had long since run his race

[Baldy Foghorn]

Still trying to get to terms with our Manager, saying we played well, and it was a great game for neutrals on Wednesday.:rolleyes:

[andrew70]

Still trying to get to terms with our Manager, saying we played well, and it was a great game for neutrals on Wednesday.:rolleyes:

I think initially he’s trying to keep his players onside but secondly it was just token gestures straight out of the cliche handbook to placate the press.

He will have said a lot differently to the players in terms of quality indoors imo.

[Baldy Foghorn]

I think initially he’s trying to keep his players onside but secondly it was just token gestures straight out of the cliche handbook to placate the press.

He will have said a lot differently to the players in terms of quality indoors imo.

Hope so A, however the fans are not stupid, and can see right through the cliche bingo

[HoboHarry]

Hope so A, however the fans are not stupid, and can see right through the cliche bingo

His approach is preferable to the Derek Adam's method of laying waste to his players as well as Scottish fitba in general.

[Lago]

His approach is preferable to the Derek Adam's method of laying waste to his players as well as Scottish fitba in general.
Maybe Derek is just being a bit more honest if less diplomatic.

[B.H.F.C]

His approach is preferable to the Derek Adam's method of laying waste to his players as well as Scottish fitba in general.

Adams seemed to get a decent reaction from his players to be fair. Hopefully Monty’s chosen approach gets one as well. Or maybe, he was just actually calling it as he saw it.

[Pretty Boy]

Maybe Derek is just being a bit more honest if less diplomatic.

Adams is just being a prick really. I'm not sure what his goal is.

The video of him in his press conference after their game against Hearts is just excruciating. Barking 'you tell me, you tell me your thoughts' isn't being honest, it's just trying to humiliate a journo doing their job and screams arrogance.

[Jim44]

As somebody already alluded to, this thread only exists because we lost yet another derby match to a team no better than ourselves. A couple of wins in the near future and the quality of Scottish football won’t be mentioned.

[VoltaireHibs]

Maybe Derek is just being a bit more honest if less diplomatic.

No one will ever confuse Derek Adams for a diplomat. :wink:

[VoltaireHibs]

Adams is just being a prick really. I'm not sure what his goal is.

The video of him in his press conference after their game against Hearts is just excruciating. Barking 'you tell me, you tell me your thoughts' isn't being honest, it's just trying to humiliate a journo doing their job and screams arrogance.

He's a really odd character. Like, really odd...

[greenlex]

He's a really odd character. Like, really odd...

Typical wee free Christian.

[Lago]

Adams is just being a prick really. I'm not sure what his goal is.

The video of him in his press conference after their game against Hearts is just excruciating. Barking 'you tell me, you tell me your thoughts' isn't being honest, it's just trying to humiliate a journo doing their job and screams arrogance.
Agree the guy as an individual is a bit of a query, but that doesn't mean the point he was making about Scottish football wasn't valid, the fact that Sky are the only media outlet prepared to pay money for broadcasting rights, with no competition from elsewhere says it all for me, frankly the offering Hibs and Hearts served up as a derby special was nothing short of embarrassing.

[He's here!]

As somebody already alluded to, this thread only exists because we lost yet another derby match to a team no better than ourselves. A couple of wins in the near future and the quality of Scottish football won’t be mentioned.

A couple of wins just tempers the criticism temporarily though, because it's clear (and has been for several years now, even when Jack Ross's side were winning regularly) that there's a fragility to Hibs which means it only takes the slightest of nudges to set us on another slide. In pretty much every game we play it's a case of fingers crossed we win rather than having genuine confidence we will do so.

The absence of any clearly discernable, sustained evidence of forward momentum is down to a weak standard of football (same for pretty much every club bar the big two). A wee burst of wins just papers over the cracks in the bigger picture. It doesn't make Scottish football 'competitive', it just makes it mediocre.

[Helensburghhibs]

Agree the guy as an individual is a bit of a query, but that doesn't mean the point he was making about Scottish football wasn't valid, the fact that Sky are the only media outlet prepared to pay money for broadcasting rights, with no competition from elsewhere says it all for me, frankly the offering Hibs and Hearts served up as a derby special was nothing short of embarrassing.


We do nothing to help the situation. Sky aren't interested and the main worry is the spfl isnt interested. I think it sums it up with the scheduling. Why is the Derby not today? Everything the paying customer likes about the game up here is being eroded away year after year.

[Lago]

We do nothing to help the situation. Sky aren't interested and the main worry is the spfl isnt interested. I think it sums it up with the scheduling. Why is the Derby not today? Everything the paying customer likes about the game up here is being eroded away year after year.
Good point about the derby being on New Years day, although I'm sure the police put the block on that previously.

[Helensburghhibs]

Good point about the derby being on New Years day, although I'm sure the police put the block on that previously.

Maybe a more obvious question then.... Why is it not tomorrow? I'm a 2 hour drive away so doesn't affect me either way but surely the old reason for it is still relevant today.... It saves people having to travel across the country with limited public services

[ekhibee]

As you say, it's not just the standard of Scottish football which is poor. The game itself is massively over-hyped, over-exposed and, frankly, over-rated.

Yep, but I would add corrupt to your description, football has been bent for years and thousands/millions of people seem to turn a blind eye to it. I'm talking about football generally, not just Scotland.

[Lago]

Maybe a more obvious question then.... Why is it not tomorrow? I'm a 2 hour drive away so doesn't affect me either way but surely the old reason for it is still relevant today.... It saves people having to travel across the country with limited public services
Again a perfectly valid suggestion. I'm old enough when Scottish football was played over 1st and 2nd January and it was great.

[Pretty Boy]

Good point about the derby being on New Years day, although I'm sure the police put the block on that previously.

I've questioned the police decision making on that before. I don't get how 12.30 or 3pm on NYD is any more problematic in terms of potential for bother than 8pm on Wednesday evening was on a day a lot of people had been off work all day and could hit the drink as early as they want.

I always remember the derby we came back from being 2 down in 10 minutes at Tynecastle on 1st January in 98. I was brought up in Oxgangs which was primarily Hearts then, probably still is. I got on the 4 bus with my parents and my dad's pal and it was rammed with Hearts fans. All the banter was pretty good natured and my dad was given a bottle of beer from the Hearts fans. People were a bit pissed as it was all topping up from the night before but the mood tends to be celebratory on New Years Day. Had that been 6.30 on Wednesday when people had been in the boozer since midday I'm less convinced it would have been so friendly.

I suppose the world has changed a lot in a quarter of a century. The widespread use of coke and the ******** it emboldens in some people probably makes the lead up to the fixture more volatile regardless of when it is played.

[easty]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67857803

Newell makes the list for top assists and tackles.

[jacomo]

Montgomery seemed to think it was a good game and given his comments I presume he never had a very good view. For me it was two very poor side who can't pass the ball and lack composure, movement and vision. Lots of anti football and a referee determined to make a poor game worse didn't help the spectacle. There wasn't even the harem skarem with tackles flying in you used to get in Derbies as the rules and VAR have stopped that. Basically a very boring game like most of them are these days.

I'm not keen on the style of play Montgomery wants to play even when done well. I don't even think it is possible to do it well with our budget and in this league.

I can always forgive Hibs teams who play entertaining football but don't always get the rewards. This team is terrible to watch and I can't see it getting much better in the short or medium term. You would need a good few years of it being embedded in the academy and I doubt the boss will last that long. We are basically Maloney's type of football but with a few better players. As the penalties showed you are going to be successful by getting the ball in the box as often as possible and by that I mean the opposition's box.

Montgomery comes across as a decent guy and it is difficult not to admire his single-mindedness and determination but that will only get him so long in this league. His points per game will see us finish around mid table so that may be the last home Derby this year. He will be a brave man to keep playing the same way but it seems it is all he knows or wants to know.


The game was garbage.

Re: formation though… I’m not sold on it, but it was Naismith who changed to a back 3 to try and stifle us and then changed it again in the 2nd half as it wasn’t working. So from that point of view, our set up was superior to theirs.

For me, if we are playing 4-4-2 we still need someone to create attacking threat… either one of the midfielders as a deep playmaker, the 2nd striker coming deep and playing as a no.10, or our no.9 holding it up and bringing others into play. Basically, someone to act as pivot for others to get forward and create chances.

None of this is happening at the moment. Instead we are relying on Tavares or Youan to skin their marker and create an overload, or Campbell to pass to a team mate (which he seems incapable of).