Manager/Tactics

[Edinburgh Green]

I’ll start by saying that when he first came in, I was 100% behind what he was trying to do, however with every passing week we are progressively getting worse. Slow tippy tippy football in our own box with the inevitable loss of it before we get out our own half. The only opportunities that we create are through breakaways. We have a £700k striker whose sole job seems to be to close down players. The football is chronic and I honestly cant see us beating teams by more than a goal if at all at the moment.

[Smartie]

I don’t have a problem with his tactics per se, other than I don’t think they suit our current players. I’d rather we had a pragmatic “I know I can only urinate using the appendage provided” type manager who would play differently then settle on this formation once he’s got the chance to bring his own players in.

I mean - surely tf he doesn’t think a 442 with Jeggo and Levitt in the middle is going to get anywhere in our league?

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

Not a fan of his playing from the box, it's chronic and gives me the jitters every time we do it 😔

[c31]

I think he’ll be gone by this time next year!! Players are running about like headless chickens and what ever tactics he’s putting in place the players cant do them.. Marshal has saved us in the last few games and if it wasn’t for him we would have lost theses games..

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Monty will live or die by his persistence with the 4-4-2 system.

I don’t get having to sign a whole new team that suits his style though. That could be another 3/4 transfer windows, anything from 1.5-2 year transition period without any guarantees that the new players will be better unless we can get the serious cash investment from Foley.

[The Modfather]

I don’t have a problem with his tactics per se, other than I don’t think they suit our current players. I’d rather we had a pragmatic “I know I can only urinate using the appendage provided” type manager who would play differently then settle on this formation once he’s got the chance to bring his own players in.

I mean - surely tf he doesn’t think a 442 with Jeggo and Levitt in the middle is going to get anywhere in our league?

What’s the alternative though? Go with a 3 and pick 3 from Newell, Levitt, Jeggo, Campbell & Delfierre.

[A Hi-Bee]

Looking forward to the day when we do have the players to take the ball with confidence and ability from a goalkeeper and start attacks, for now we do not have this and it is getting found out. Once we have a few of them Bournemouth loan players along with some costly good players we may look forward with confidence to finishing 3rd in this rubbish league that we are in.
Monty will prevail, I am certain, will he have the success we are looking for, well only time will tell, and not the self appointed football managers and judges we have on a football forum, all in my own humble opinion of course.
:thumbsup:

[A Hi-Bee]

I think he’ll be gone by this time next year!! Players are running about like headless chickens and what ever tactics he’s putting in place the players cant do them.. Marshal has saved us in the last few games and if it wasn’t for him we would have lost theses games..

:faf: :aok:

[GreenGray]

Needs time to bring players in and implement his system.

I must admit though, it does worry me how much the system restricts our best attacking players.

Youan and Vente in particular look nothing like the players they were.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stuart93]

Our performances haven’t been great despite our recent form tbh.

It was a matter of time before the passing out from the back cost us a game.

We need to improve, our passing needs to improve. Slow and pedestrian all over the pitch as well.

Our teams currently giving me Maloney feels all over again but we’ve managed to grind out results better

[JammyDoidger]

Players aren't good enough to play out from the back the way he's asking them to, we get caught out at least 2/3 times in every game doing it. Frustrating as we have better players, that midfield 2 was a disgrace today, powderpuff. Leaving us up against it in midfield every week we cannot control a game with the midfield we have. Vente and Boyle are wasted atm aswell.

[degenerated]

I think he’ll be gone by this time next year!! Players are running about like headless chickens and what ever tactics he’s putting in place the players cant do them.. Marshal has saved us in the last few games and if it wasn’t for him we would have lost theses games..Enjoy yer night, mate. :hilarious

[Real Emerald]

The tactics are fine for technically gifted players on good pitches in good conditions. So not so good for Hibs at Perth or Livingston in the midst of a torrential rain storm or a bumpy pitch in a gale in the middle of a Scottish winter.

I actually hate the tactics of inviting 3 opposition players on top of your defence on the edge of your box. It’s a recipe for disaster in conditions like today unless you can swap our players for the Man City defence and midfield.

I’ve no issue with the manager liking or wanting to play this system, my issue is he is absolutely committed to play it even if he can see with his own eyes it is not working.

A good manager was always judged on how he reacted to certain situations arising during a game and being able to change it. It would appear that he only has one tactic and one way of playing. If that’s the case he’ll be the next one getting his jotters. Very disappointing.

[Ozyhibby]

His post match interview was worrying, saying he saw some positives and the ball just didn’t fall for us today. I get he can’t throw his players under the bus but that doesn’t mean he has to treat the fans like they are stupid.[emoji35]
Like the last 3/4 managers, if he doesn’t sort the midfield, he’ll be gone within a year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[A Hi-Bee]

His post match interview was worrying, saying he saw some positives and the ball just didn’t fall for us today. I get he can’t throw his players under the bus but that doesn’t mean he has to treat the fans like they are stupid.[emoji35]
Like the last 3/4 managers, if he doesn’t sort the midfield, he’ll be gone within a year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What do you want him to say, same as the previous manager and throw some of the players under the bus to deflect, dont think he is that kind of guy. we need the new investment to have any chance of progressing and to even keep up with the manky ones from gorgie.

[Broken Gnome]

My main worry is whether this is a happy team or not. I'd have assumed the thought of dropping/selling Boyle, Vente, Youan would be the last think I'd be hoping, but for large spells of these games I wouldn't miss any of them - they're barely involved, and the fleeting moments they do have are regularly ineffective.

They can't be content with this surely? There's almost zero scope to express themselves. I don't think they do themselves any favours with how static they tend to be as there's very few options for the midfielders and full-backs, but their ability to being marginalised at best and at worst completely stifled.

[greenpaper55]

Seems like it’s his way or nothing, he will learn the hard way like everyone else or he will go the way of many others. If we get a new investor do you think they will be happy with the likes of today ? No chance.

[Unseen work]

I love the thought of attacking/possession football, but I don’t consider playing out from the back and taking 30 passes to get to the half way line, only for it to come all the way back to be that.

We need to play 20 yards higher, stop passing it back to Marshall as much and inject some intensity into the play

Also when we’re pressed and the ball goes long we’ve got nothing. Rarely is the ball long enough to get in behind for Boyle or the attacking players and again it comes right back, lacking physicality up top to make it stick.

Youan needs to play up front or on the left, he doesn’t know what he’s doing on the right. Boyle despite some goals and assists is nowhere near the threat he once was. Vente needs people around him and he’s not getting that.

We like playing triangles along our back 4, but we need that amongst our attackers.

We need a way where our attacking players get more touches of the ball, Rocky came on with 20 to go and probably had more touches than the front 4 combined

[Unseen work]

His post match interview was worrying, saying he saw some positives and the ball just didn’t fall for us today. I get he can’t throw his players under the bus but that doesn’t mean he has to treat the fans like they are stupid.[emoji35]
Like the last 3/4 managers, if he doesn’t sort the midfield, he’ll be gone within a year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t think his interview was bad, said we lacked belief, urgency etc and the ball wasn’t dropping for us today and we were poor.

I don’t think he/the atmosphere he’s trying to create would work with him saying much worse publicly that that.

[Real Emerald]

My main worry is whether this is a happy team or not. I'd have assumed the thought of dropping/selling Boyle, Vente, Youan would be the last think I'd be hoping, but for large spells of these games I wouldn't miss any of them - they're barely involved, and the fleeting moments they do have are regularly ineffective.

They can't be content with this surely? There's almost zero scope to express themselves. I don't think they do themselves any favours with how static they tend to be as there's very few options for the midfielders and full-backs, but their ability to being marginalised at best and at worst completely stifled.

They can’t really get involved when we’re tippy tappying along our 18 yard box until it’s eventually booted up the park. We’ve no midfield to feed the attackers anyway. The forwards must be going mad with the lack of decent service they get. Although they are also far from blameless

[Broken Gnome]

They can’t really get involved when we’re tippy tappying along our 18 yard box until it’s eventually booted up the park. We’ve no midfield to feed the attackers anyway. The forwards must be going mad with the lack of decent service they get. Although they are also far from blameless

That's pretty much exactly what I'm saying.

[Real Emerald]

That's pretty much exactly what I'm saying.

Exactly 👍

[JammyDoidger]

They can’t really get involved when we’re tippy tappying along our 18 yard box until it’s eventually booted up the park. We’ve no midfield to feed the attackers anyway. The forwards must be going mad with the lack of decent service they get. Although they are also far from blameless

This is what I'm getting at, we arse about with it at the back then just end up booting it anyway and missing out the midfield, our forwards pick the ball up where the midfield should be picking it up. It's mental tactics. We have pace in this side and it doesn't get used, we looked more of a threat under Johnson, just couldn't defend.

[Real Emerald]

This is what I'm getting at, we arse about with it at the back then just end up booting it anyway and missing out the midfield, our forwards pick the ball up where the midfield should be picking it up. It's mental tactics. We have pace in this side and it doesn't get used, we looked more of a threat under Johnson, just couldn't defend.

If he can’t adapt his approach for different opposition, weather or in game situations he’s toast. It’s admirable to be confident in your beliefs but you need to be flexible and able to adapt as well. If he can’t do that he’ll be gone too.

[Hiber-nation]

If he can’t adapt his approach for different opposition, weather or in game situations he’s toast. It’s admirable to be confident in your beliefs but you need to be flexible and able to adapt as well. If he can’t do that he’ll be gone too.

Yep not sure why folk are mocking the very suggestion. If we continue with no midfield some team will give us a doing and it could have been today. You can't have control of a game playing 4 forwards.

[Cuikyhibs]

We never looked like troubling the keeper today, didn't deserve to take anything from the game...the formation (imho) needs to change....we should be 4-3-3.

Today was awful to watch, St Johnstone gifted us a good few chances due to their errors..and we couldn't capitalise... gifted them one and boom,goal....awful

[Unseen work]

We never looked like troubling the keeper today, didn't deserve to take anything from the game...the formation (imho) needs to change....we should be 4-3-3.

Today was awful to watch, St Johnstone gifted us a good few chances due to their errors..and we couldn't capitalise... gifted them one and boom,goal....awful

The annoying this is I think we have the players for a 433 and I think Montgomery would be able to coach it really well.

[eastmainsmsh]

Needs time to bring players in and implement his system.

I must admit though, it does worry me how much the system restricts our best attacking players.

Youan and Vente in particular look nothing like the players they were.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree like Monty but with his style of play and Persistence with 4-4-2 and in Jan he signs his own players hopefully they bed in quick

[J-C]

Aston Villa shows 442 can work but jeez their players compared to ours, we do not have the players to play this system, shoehorning Boyle as a striker, Jair and Youan as wide midfielders and a powderpuff Levitt in a 2 man midfield, says it all.

[Musselbound]

Some of our recent wins have been pretty fortunate. We are not creating enough chances or getting enough shots on target to be keep consistently winning games.

[RoscoHibby]

Agree Monty needs to be a bit more pragmatic about playing it from the back in certain games…last couple of weeks the weather has been atrocious. Terrible from Levitt at the goal though, especially it being the third such instance in about 3 mins…

Think today showed how absolutely key Joe Newell is if we are to consistently play this system/these tactics.

[JammyDoidger]

Agree Monty needs to be a bit more pragmatic about playing it from the back in certain games…last couple of weeks the weather has been atrocious. Terrible from Levitt at the goal though, especially it being the third such instance in about 3 mins…

Think today showed how absolutely key Joe Newell is if we are to consistently play this system/these tactics.

Why the hell is Levitt taking goal kicks anyway, it's absolutely mental man.

[Unseen work]

It was brutal from Levitt.

Taking it that deep off the goalie means you can’t give it away.

Think fish should have pressed Carey (who has a brilliant left foot) a lot quicker though.

[cloudy]

Anychance of playing with our wingers out wide? Front four are playing to narrow, Boyle playing with his back to goal is ridiculous. 3 wingers on the pitch for 90mins and only twice did they attack the full backs.

[truehibernian]

Anychance of playing with our wingers out wide? Front four are playing to narrow, Boyle playing with his back to goal is ridiculous. 3 wingers on the pitch for 90mins and only twice did they attack the full backs.

A lot of good posts tonight and another i agree with 👍 it’s why i think we need a natural left winger so we can deploy Boyle and Youan properly and allow both flanks to play with real width.

[eastmainsmsh]

Needs time to bring players in and implement his system.

I must admit though, it does worry me how much the system restricts our best attacking players.

Youan and Vente in particular look nothing like the players they were.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree like Monty but with his style of play and Persistence with 4-4-2 and in Jan he signs his own players hopefully they bed in quick

[AL-Qaholik]

Even when it “works”, it’s brutal to watch.

[147lothian]

I'm surely not the only one who has always thought that the tactics of goalie gives the ball to player in our box and pass the way out of our final third was always a disaster waiting to happen.

[RoscoHibby]

Why the hell is Levitt taking goal kicks anyway, it's absolutely mental man.

I can kinda get why as he’s prob our best passer of the ball and always keeps his composure, that’s what makes that effort giving it to Carey all the worse…🤦🏻*♂️🤷🏻*♂️

Hanlon wasn’t great today, but he’s generally so much better on the ball than rocky, noticed teams have actively left him the one unmarked when pressing..Fish is generally fine and some good
distribution. Miller last couple of months seems to have a few hairy moments in him. Obita…prob not popular opinion but I find 90% of his play so negative and always taking us off the front foot..all the above, minus Newell, who’s physicality and skill help us up the pitch so much. It’s not overly surprising game went as it did. To my eye they only really created anything when we gave them the ball in our own half though ..🙄

[B.H.F.C]

Today was absolutely brutal. No point in having all those attacking players on the pitch if you can’t get the ball to them.

But we still have far too much crap in that squad. I see folk saying it’s a good squad and find that view mad. Average at full back, crap at centre half, short in the middle of the park. We are all right in the final third if he can find a way to get more from them but it’s still a very average squad.

[Chorley Hibee]

Even when it “works”, it’s brutal to watch.

It's absolutely dreadful to watch.

In two games, against Livingston and St Johnstone, we've barely created a chance, or forced the opposition goalie to make a save.

Bored stiff to be honest.

[Real Emerald]

Even when it “works”, it’s brutal to watch.

I agree, this is not what football should be about. It’s like watching chess.

[Northernhibee]

Even when it “works”, it’s brutal to watch.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this, when it's worked I've found us very entertaining.

[Hiber-nation]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this, when it's worked I've found us very entertaining.

Apart from the Luzern home game and the Aberdeen away game under SDG I can't actually remember when I last enjoyed watching Hibs. We've been sussed and it's dreadful at the moment.

[scottish_sleepy]

Even when it “works”, it’s brutal to watch.

Totally agree. From memory I think it's worked once up in Dundee. The rest of the time it's been dire.
The amount of times we've got the ball near the opposition box and two passes later it's back at Marshall is shocking.
We could have still been playing with St Johnstone away home and still not scored.
As others have said every pass is played at a pedestrian pace,then inevitably back to Marshall, where it starts all over again. Please just give us something to get excited about while we freeze our ***** off.

[Stuart93]

Just seen their goal, that’s embarrassing from levitt. A young guy who’s came through Manchester Utd youth trying to pass it out like that, it’s ****ing amateur

[JimBHibees]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this, when it's worked I've found us very entertaining.

Agree some of our moves have been excellent. First goal at Dundee was brilliant

[Helensburghhibs]

Some of our play has been great. And let's not overlook that playing from the back made Aberdeen sit higher leading to goals from more direct play. It just didn't happen today and a mistake compounds it. But give me it over leveins tactics any day of the week

[JammyDoidger]

I can kinda get why as he’s prob our best passer of the ball and always keeps his composure, that’s what makes that effort giving it to Carey all the worse…🤦🏻*♂️🤷🏻*♂️

Hanlon wasn’t great today, but he’s generally so much better on the ball than rocky, noticed teams have actively left him the one unmarked when pressing..Fish is generally fine and some good
distribution. Miller last couple of months seems to have a few hairy moments in him. Obita…prob not popular opinion but I find 90% of his play so negative and always taking us off the front foot..all the above, minus Newell, who’s physicality and skill help us up the pitch so much. It’s not overly surprising game went as it did. To my eye they only really created anything when we gave them the ball in our own half though ..🙄

Just think Levitt is wasted in this team. No centre mid should be taking a goal kick, it's honestly unbelievable to watch. Midfielders should be dictating the game but not on the edge of their own box, needs to be 40-50 yards further up doing that.

[JammyDoidger]

Some of our play has been great. And let's not overlook that playing from the back made Aberdeen sit higher leading to goals from more direct play. It just didn't happen today and a mistake compounds it. But give me it over leveins tactics any day of the week

Aberdeen had enough chances against us to win 3 games. We were lucky to win that. We've not been convincing in any game I've seen us under Monty.

[Stuart93]

Fwiw our playing out from the back has been worse without Rocky.

What he might lack sometimes defensively he’s need and day on the ball compared to fish or hanlon.

[Helensburghhibs]

Aberdeen had enough chances against us to win 3 games. We were lucky to win that. We've not been convincing in any game I've seen us under Monty.

Yeah I agree. But it doesn't mean that the tactics have also contributed to goals. The issue I have is not the playing from the back but the lack of turning into space from our midfielders, opting instead to play it back to the defence. This leads to having to then play from the back more, and theore you have to do it the more risk it is. I view the tactics as a work in progress.

[Glory Lurker]

Everything should be about feeding Vente. He's getting squandered, when he's our biggest asset. Wild.

[#2 Double Tap]

Fwiw our playing out from the back has been worse without Rocky.

What he might lack sometimes defensively he’s need and day on the ball compared to fish or hanlon.

rocky is our best cb. kinda get monty wanting a natural left footer in lcb, but dropping rocky for hanlon is pretty sh it imo......same with playing jair on the left, youan should be playing there, boyle on the right......vente and doidge up top if we are going 442..........our strongest players in their strongest positions.........

we miss newell in midfield, he is the only one with a bit bite........i think miller and obita are our strongest full backs......the other CM spot i am still undecided myself......

[RoscoHibby]

Just think Levitt is wasted in this team. No centre mid should be taking a goal kick, it's honestly unbelievable to watch. Midfielders should be dictating the game but not on the edge of their own box, needs to be 40-50 yards further up doing that.

Agreed, he should prob be the one receiving it a bit further up the park and him releasing Boyle, Vente, Youan, taveres (FWIW don’t think all 4 should play for sake of balance to the team) ..one thing I’d say is he can get shoved about a bit in this league, not ideal if we’re under a press and facing your own goal..again, Newell so important to this system. I wonder if Kenneh has a recall option in Jan, could keep it well and big and handy, might fit way better into this system than the manager’s that loaned him out..

[Since452]

Apart from the Luzern home game and the Aberdeen away game under SDG I can't actually remember when I last enjoyed watching Hibs. We've been sussed and it's dreadful at the moment.

The two best games of the season by far. All we do these days is invite the opposition on to us and give them countless opportunities. A defeat was coming and a heavy one isn't far away and it'll be from a Motherwell or Ross County. Marshall has been fantastic lately.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Poor manager, poor players. So basically normal for Hibs, bar about 2 seasons in the last 30.

[JammyDoidger]

Poor manager, poor players. So basically normal for Hibs, bar about 2 seasons in the last 30.

Sad, but true tbh. We are always the fall guys.

[supermcginn]

Losing to a rotten team managed by a dinosaur, isn't a great sign tbh. Worrying

[WestCoastHibby]

:faf: :aok:

Cpl Jones…..”don’t panic!”

[Tambo]

I much prefer Boyle on the right and some games we don't seem to look like creating anything for Vente.

[Since452]

We have millions of pounds worth of attacking players barely creating a chance. What's gone wrong?

[JammyDoidger]

We have millions of pounds worth of attacking players barely creating a chance. What's gone wrong?

4-4-2 and farting about at the back because it is trendy. We don't have the players to do it, simple really. If we matched their shape today, we probably win the game.

[number9dream]

I’d be on board with the 4-2-4 formation if it was all out attack and we were winning or losing 5-4 or 4-3 every week, but most of our games are incredibly dull. We have some real pace in the team, yet our build up is painfully laborious.

[The Modfather]

We have millions of pounds worth of attacking players barely creating a chance. What's gone wrong?

Partly IMO, no midfield, a striker with no partner and players whose reputation exceeds their actual performances in Boyle & Youan. Alongside valid questions about said players in a 442.

[Gmack7]

We rarely dominate possession against any teams, not enough in the middle of the park

[21sMay]

If you want to play the 4-4-2 that monty wants to play requires a midfield like Kevin Thomson and boozy along with wide players like , dare I say it , Euan Henderson who can get on the ball and pick a pass , we don't play like we need the pace of Boyle and ellie

[GreenGray]

I think the poor manager shouts are incredibly harsh, but I would be worried if he shows no intention of changing his system in games like today.

Our defence needs a complete overhaul and we desperately missed Newell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Unseen work]

If you want to play the 4-4-2 that monty wants to play requires a midfield like Kevin Thomson and boozy along with wide players like , dare I say it , Euan Henderson who can get on the ball and pick a pass , we don't play like we need the pace of Boyle and ellie

Tend to agree.

I think someone like a Henderson who can drop into pockets of space and receive on the half turn would probably be more effective than a Youan in the wide right position. Tavares is actually playing well on the left at doing just that.

Armstrong at killie? Would give the option of doing a bit of both.

I think we need a striker too who can drop into pockets and beat a man/play a pass. The gaps are there and it’s not Vente’s game.

If we had players able to find gaps and play the ball accurately in quickly it would help absolutely everyone and make us a lot more attacking

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Youan sold in January.

[Carheenlea]

Montgomerie obviously knows a lot more about football tacticts than I ever will so not going to start to attempt to tell him what he was doing wrong today, but it was pretty frustrating watching a team with what should be an exciting forward line not even landing a blow on the St Johnstone goal.

I wasn’t expecting that today, but a closer examination of recent performances would probably have suggested that it wasn’t a surprise at all.

The more teams learn of how we see lay the more easier it must become for many to prepare to play against us. Even more so if we persist to play the same formation every game.

[Bobo]

Montgomery's tactics and style of play are just as poor as his predecessors, absolutely horrendous football to watch and very little to get enthused about.

His teams are non-adventurous, slow, tedious and seldom generate an acceptable tempo in matches. The lack of desire and belief is a major issue with the mindset that you have to be cautious when playing the likes of Livingston, St Johnstone and the rest of the dross in the SPFL?

I know he's not been in the door long but I'm not filled with any expectation that he can deliver any more than the raft of duds that we've had to suffer as managers.

Hope he proves me wrong.

[21sMay]

Tend to agree.

I think someone like a Henderson who can drop into pockets of space and receive on the half turn would probably be more effective than a Youan in the wide right position. Tavares is actually playing well on the left at doing just that.

Armstrong at killie? Would give the option of doing a bit of both.

I think we need a striker too who can drop into pockets and beat a man/play a pass. The gaps are there and it’s not Vente’s game.

If we had players able to find gaps and play the ball accurately in quickly it would help absolutely everyone and make us a lot more attacking

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Youan sold in January.

My exact thoughts , vente up too and another forward who can drop deep ( I actually think le fondre might be capable of this but unfortunately his age is against us) .

Armstrong is a great shout for the type of winger monty requires , need to be comfortable taking possession in tight spaces , Boyle and Ellie are not capable of this

[CapitalGreen]

Think today showed how absolutely key Joe Newell is if we are to consistently play this system/these tactics.

100% mate, we’d never succumb to a lacklustre 1-0 defeat by St Johnstone if Joe Newell was playing…

[Vault Boy]

Getting worse every week with 4 wins in 5 before this weekend? lol

[LaMotta]

If you want to play the 4-4-2 that monty wants to play requires a midfield like Kevin Thomson and boozy along with wide players like , dare I say it , Euan Henderson who can get on the ball and pick a pass , we don't play like we need the pace of Boyle and ellie


Tend to agree.

I think someone like a Henderson who can drop into pockets of space and receive on the half turn would probably be more effective than a Youan in the wide right position. Tavares is actually playing well on the left at doing just that.

Armstrong at killie? Would give the option of doing a bit of both.

I think we need a striker too who can drop into pockets and beat a man/play a pass. The gaps are there and it’s not Vente’s game.

If we had players able to find gaps and play the ball accurately in quickly it would help absolutely everyone and make us a lot more attacking

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Youan sold in January.

We need to get the ball to Vente's feet in the box, yet he's rarely in the opposition box. More likely to see him at our right back position at points - something is not right there.

[JohnM1875]

As bad a performance as I can remember. Aye, Maloney had a fair few games with no shots on target. But he didn’t have Vente, Boyle and Youan at his disposal.

Brutal today and that’s probably being kind.

[Greenio]

Anychance of playing with our wingers out wide? Front four are playing to narrow, Boyle playing with his back to goal is ridiculous. 3 wingers on the pitch for 90mins and only twice did they attack the full backs.

This was a major issue with that performance. Miller and Obita (who were both poor) just don't have any player to play it to when they get up the pitch

[degenerated]

We rarely dominate possession against any teams, not enough in the middle of the parkWe had 61% possession yesterday?

In fact other than Celtic, the stickies and that last Aberdeen game I cant think of many games where our opponents dominated possession.

[Stuart93]

Getting worse every week with 4 wins in 5 before this weekend? lol

Can’t argue with our form but it’s also difficult to argue that performances have been on a gradual decline. It was a matter of time before a result like yesterday happened after riding our luck vs Aberdeen & livi.

Don’t think anyones complaining about our form, it’s more about our performances.

And obviously we won’t complain if we’re not performing great but we’re winning but when you’re gradually getting worse during that time your luck tends to run out. Which is annoying in a very winnable game

[Brooster]

442 can work fine but not when the 2 in the centre are playing so deep and your wider 2 are non triers. We also need Boyle on the right and Vente in the box.

[fiolex1]

I think having your main strategy of 442 is ok but if it’s not working or getting cancelled out we need an alternative. I think it was really naive to roll up to Parkhead to play a 442 as some of the best teams in Europe wouldn’t play that system away to Celtic.I don’t know if it naivety or just plain stubbornness that we are sticking with the 442?

[Don Giovanni]

Some of our recent wins have been pretty fortunate. We are not creating enough chances or getting enough shots on target to be keep consistently winning games.

Agree :agree:

Additionally we are giving up way too many opportunities.

Even in recent wins (in which we have kept a clean sheet Sheep, Livi) we have relied on Marshall. He made some good stops again today and prevented us suffering a heavier defeat to a poor St. Johnstone side.

[LaMotta]

We rarely dominate possession against any teams, not enough in the middle of the park


We had 61% possession yesterday?

In fact other than Celtic, the stickies and that last Aberdeen game I cant think of many games where our opponents dominated possession.

Don't think possession stats are particulary important either way.

Someone on a Facebook Hibs page posted shot stats for our 6 league games since the semi-final (excluding Celtic)

Attempts on goals
Opponents - 96 (16 average per game)
Hibs - 44 (7.3 average per game)

Attempts on target
Opponents - 28 (4.6 average per game)
Hibs - 17 (2.8 average per game)

Of course wins are the most important stat but the above (aligned with Marshall playing out his skin) paints a pretty worrying picture.

[Chorley Hibee]

The lack of chances created from such substantial possession has to be hugely concerning.

No shots on goal yesterday and only 2 the previous game at Livingston.

In most games we create much less than the opposition, and that's eventually going to bite us on the arse (yesterday).

Add in our suicidal playing out from the back, mind-numbingly slow football, and a collection of three front players that are rarely ever in a game now, and yesterday's outcome wasn't really a shock.

You would hope the coaching staff are watching what most of us are seeing and that the required changes, or additions to the squad, will be made.

[Since452]

The big hope is he brings some players in January that suit this style. Unless this investment goes through in time I have my doubts. Can't really be arsed watching this type of football for the rest of the season as it's been abysmal for weeks now. Best part of 90 quid in December to be bored to tears.

[JimBHibees]

100% mate, we’d never succumb to a lacklustre 1-0 defeat by St Johnstone if Joe Newell was playing…

:greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Undoubtedly very poor performance however the basics were really poor rather than to me either the style or the formation. Most half decent teams will want to control the game with possession. We have shown we are able to play out and bring teams on to create space. Looked like a bad day at the office and think we lost a bit with Miller going off and Campbell right back which personally would have went with Rory and bring on Josh further forward. Obviously important both central players play well which they really didn't do and the goal was a shocker from both the obvious mispass and also Fish closing Carey or not and given he has such a good left foot we should have. Shows a light squad but certainly worrying signs there from such a collective poor game. Saints have certainly improved under Levein.

[gaz1875]

NM's tactics are terrible, we don't have the players to play them. You just need to watch the highlights of Aston Villa v City the other week, that's how you play out from the back, quick concise passing, 2-3 passes and attempt at goal. We take an eternity and after 1 or 2 passes we have lost possession and repeat and repeat again. His recent wins have had a huge amount of luck, throw in the games we have lead 2-0 and never won, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the season unless we get better players in, we keep getting lucky or NM changes his tactics. Thank god Marshall has started to make saves!!

[SlickShoes]

What do people think we do have the players to play? I’d rather he play his way and the players know it then we bring in the players to support it than start from scratch again.

We have a very weak squad as seen yesterday once it was clear the first 11 weren’t performing. We are totally lost in midfield without Joe Newell

Manager needs time and at the very least a summer window to get his players in to play his way, we know he’s capable of making players better but the players aren’t always capable of that themselves.

[JimBHibees]

NM's tactics are terrible, we don't have the players to play them. You just need to watch the highlights of Aston Villa v City the other week, that's how you play out from the back, quick concise passing, 2-3 passes and attempt at goal. We take an eternity and after 1 or 2 passes we have lost possession and repeat and repeat again. His recent wins have had a huge amount of luck, throw in the games we have lead 2-0 and never won, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the season unless we get better players in, we keep getting lucky or NM changes his tactics. Thank god Marshall has started to make saves!!

They clearly aren't terrible but are never going to work well when players make basic mistakes.

[BoomtownHibees]

What do people think we do have the players to play? I’d rather he play his way and the players know it then we bring in the players to support it than start from scratch again.

We have a very weak squad as seen yesterday once it was clear the first 11 weren’t performing. We are totally lost in midfield without Joe Newell

Manager needs time and at the very least a summer window to get his players in to play his way, we know he’s capable of making players better but the players aren’t always capable of that themselves.

It’s easy to say a change in formation would make us better however I think we have a squad more suited to 433 than the current 442

Marshall

Miller
Fish
Rocky/Hanlon
Obita

Newell
Jeggo
Levitt

Boyle
Vente
Youan/Jair

I reckon the above would get us more out of our better players

[Sioux]

NM's tactics are terrible, we don't have the players to play them. You just need to watch the highlights of Aston Villa v City the other week, that's how you play out from the back, quick concise passing, 2-3 passes and attempt at goal. We take an eternity and after 1 or 2 passes we have lost possession and repeat and repeat again. His recent wins have had a huge amount of luck, throw in the games we have lead 2-0 and never won, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the season unless we get better players in, we keep getting lucky or NM changes his tactics. Thank god Marshall has started to make saves!!

Comparing the standard of player in the SPFL to those at the top end of the EPL is as daft as a brush.

[J-C]

Comparing the standard of player in the SPFL to those at the top end of the EPL is as daft as a brush.

Not really, it just shows you need better quality to play that system.

[Nicho87]

Said it before

His stubborness in not having a plan b in terms of formation will lose either his jobs / players or the fans

I don’t know how you cannot have a plan b as if it ain’t working we need the capability to change to a 3

[B.H.F.C]

Said it before

His stubborness in not having a plan b in terms of formation will lose either his jobs / players or the fans

I don’t know how you cannot have a plan b as if it ain’t working we need the capability to change to a 3

He needs to adapt to what is in front of him sometimes. We ended up with Tavares playing in the middle of the park yesterday FFS.

The lack of a squad is hampering him to an extent. Yesterday I’d have hooked Levitt long before he did but there is the question of who you bring on, there’s little there. His substitutions rarely make us any better IMO but I can’t decide if that’s down to what he has available to bring on or what he’s trying to do. Probably a bit of both.

[JimBHibees]

What do people think we do have the players to play? I’d rather he play his way and the players know it then we bring in the players to support it than start from scratch again.

We have a very weak squad as seen yesterday once it was clear the first 11 weren’t performing. We are totally lost in midfield without Joe Newell

Manager needs time and at the very least a summer window to get his players in to play his way, we know he’s capable of making players better but the players aren’t always capable of that themselves.

Agree they are professional players and should be able to keep possession and pass the ball. Certainly if you are hoping to attract decent players especially loan players from teams from higher levels that will be a given.

[blackpoolhibs]

We had 61% possession yesterday?

In fact other than Celtic, the stickies and that last Aberdeen game I cant think of many games where our opponents dominated possession.

Most of our possession was our defender's passing the ball back and forth with each other and the keeper, sometimes giving it to Levitt and Jeggo then repeat.

[B.H.F.C]

Most of our possession was our defender's passing the ball back and forth with each other and the keeper, sometimes giving it to Levitt and Jeggo then repeat.

We had a spell of possession yesterday in the first half, it must have been at least 30-40 passes. The end result? Youan ran the ball out of play on the half way line whilst running back the way. Summed up our performance perfectly.

[SlickShoes]

I know people like to say that playing it out from back is what is causing us problems because look at Levitt's pass yesterday, but what stops him from doing that same pass in another formation?

I think over the last few years our biggest problem has been ourselves, and we still see that today, we give away goals that arent from good play, they are from us making basic errors like passing directly to the opposition. I don't think the way we play will change that much with the players we have.

[JammyDoidger]

I know people like to say that playing it out from back is what is causing us problems because look at Levitt's pass yesterday, but what stops him from doing that same pass in another formation?

I think over the last few years our biggest problem has been ourselves, and we still see that today, we give away goals that arent from good play, they are from us making basic errors like passing directly to the opposition. I don't think the way we play will change that much with the players we have.

In another style of play or formation he doesn't come and take the ball of the goalie on his 6 year box, it's amateur stuff.

[Hibrandenburg]

Getting worse every week with 4 wins in 5 before this weekend? lol

We're not getting worse, it's just the tactic of playing everything out from the back is so repetitive and teams have learned very quickly how to use that against us, it's not rocket science. Is Monty a 1 trick pony? We desperately need a plan B.

[Smartie]

I know people like to say that playing it out from back is what is causing us problems because look at Levitt's pass yesterday, but what stops him from doing that same pass in another formation?

I think over the last few years our biggest problem has been ourselves, and we still see that today, we give away goals that arent from good play, they are from us making basic errors like passing directly to the opposition. I don't think the way we play will change that much with the players we have.

Levitt being played at least 20 yards further up the park so he has no business being that far back would help imo.

He’s making regular contributions to lost goals, an unforgivable number.

Any formation we do play should minimise our exposure to this.

[Key West]

He's trying to implement a style that is beyond the abilities of some of the current players and is also managing to extract lesser performances from others who we are normally reliant upon,I don't see his way as a massive improvement on his predecessors, in fact we are back to where we started in my opinion. As usual I hope he turns out be very good but the signs at the moment are not indicative of progress.

[EVENTUALLY]

We're not getting worse, it's just the tactic of playing everything out from the back is so repetitive and teams have learned very quickly how to use that against us, it's not rocket science. Is Monty a 1 trick pony? We desperately need a plan B.

That's it in a nutshell. Does NM think that there are no opposition scouts/analysis guys watching his team 3/4 games prior to coming up against them. St Johnstone didn't press Hibs they simply man marked all over the pitch and stressed Levitt, Jeggo, Fish, Hanlon, Obita and Miller into make no decisions by passing the buck (ball) to one of their team mates to rinse and repeat. Its far too slow and dire to watch. Rocky tried to make a diference by running with the ball to bypass opponents thereby eliminating them and creating a brief overload further up the park. Even on the very odd occasion where Marshall has an opportunity to release the ball quickly, he dosen't, he plays under orders to retreat within his box to allow his teammates to get into their practised positions and go through the whole statutory play out from the back system which the opposition are now comfortable with. NM may say that Jair's goal at Dundee proves the system, however Vente's goal against Aberdeen clearly shows that there are other ways to play.

[gaz1875]

Comparing the standard of player in the SPFL to those at the top end of the EPL is as daft as a brush.

I wasn't comparing the standard of player? I was comparing the style of play. Our standard is miles below the likes of AV, and likewise our opponents are miles of the likes of Man City.

[Weir07]

Scratching my head a bit about this chat of getting better players to play a certain system. Our 1st 11 is up there with the best in the league outside of the old firm. Many a manager in our league would love to have our players . I agree that the squad needs strengthened but I don't see us getting a massive upgrade on the first 11 with our budget. Which tends to suggest play a way and style that suit our players. Boyle, Vente and Youan on the teamsheet should terrify the opposition but that doesn't materialise on the pitch, the question is why?

[Zazu62]

Villa playing 3-5-2 today obviously setting up to match Brentford’s tactics, you can’t just play 4-4-2 every week you need to be able to adapt

[gaz1875]

Scratching my head a bit about this chat of getting better players to play a certain system. Our 1st 11 is up there with the best in the league outside of the old firm. Many a manager in our league would love to have our players . I agree that the squad needs strengthened but I don't see us getting a massive upgrade on the first 11 with our budget. Which tends to suggest play a way and style that suit our players. Boyle, Vente and Youan on the teamsheet should terrify the opposition but that doesn't materialise on the pitch, the question is why?

On paper we possibly have the fastest forward line in the league, which Lee Johnston's style of play suited. Now we hardly get into the opponents half, because we play out from the back and lose the ball before we get into the opponents half, it's just too slow.

[greenlex]

On paper we possibly have the fastest forward line in the league, which Lee Johnston's style of play suited. Now we hardly get into the opponents half, because we play out from the back and lose the ball before we get into the opponents half, it's just too slow.
Playing out from the back isn’t the problem but you have nailed the problem. It’s the pace and tempo we do it with.

[neil7908]

Villa playing 3-5-2 today obviously setting up to match Brentford’s tactics, you can’t just play 4-4-2 every week you need to be able to adapt

And Villa are losing. Not sure it's the best example. Chopping and changing tactics and formation can lead to uncertainty from players about where they should be, who's picking up who etc.

[Alex Trager]

On paper we possibly have the fastest forward line in the league, which Lee Johnston's style of play suited. Now we hardly get into the opponents half, because we play out from the back and lose the ball before we get into the opponents half, it's just too slow.

What was LJ’s style of play?

[A Hi-Bee]

What was LJ’s style of play?

Think you would need to ask Mickey Stewart for that answer.

[Since452]

Think you would need to ask Mickey Stewart for that answer.

Beat me to it

[Johnny_Leith]

And Villa are losing. Not sure it's the best example. Chopping and changing tactics and formation can lead to uncertainty from players about where they should be, who's picking up who etc.

Villa won. Hearts changed tactics yesterday and won. Tactical flexibility is a really fundamental part of football, especially when conditions aren't great like in Scotland, like yesterday.

[A Hi-Bee]

An their was me thinking that Fitba was a relatively simple game, get to the opposite sides bye line as fast as, cut it back into the 6 yard box, with your supporting forwards busting a gut to get onto your cut back. Don't know what formation but 10 outfield players on the park, one should be able to achieve this on a few occasions.
:thumbsup:

[Since452]

We have the players, especially the forward ones to create more than we are creating. Vente especially is the type that thieves on chances in the 6 yard box. Hopefully we sort it out soon.

[Ronniekirk]

Villa won. Hearts changed tactics yesterday and won. Tactical flexibility is a really fundamental part of football, especially when conditions aren't great like in Scotland, like yesterday.

totally agree

[greenlex]

Villa won. Hearts changed tactics yesterday and won. Tactical flexibility is a really fundamental part of football, especially when conditions aren't great like in Scotland, like yesterday.
In what way did hearts change tactically yesterday? Going by stats they barely got a kick of the ball. Had two attempts and scored them both.

[Johnny_Leith]

In what way did hearts change tactically yesterday? Going by stats they barely got a kick of the ball. Had two attempts and scored them both.

Played a 5-3-2, instead of a 3-5-2. If that's not a convincing change for you, last time they played Celtic they lost 4-1 playing with a back 4, changing tactics from when they last played them resulted in a win.

Started the season playing a back 4 they'd won 3/9 league games, since changing to a 3/5 at the back model they've won 5/8.

[greenlex]

Played a 5-3-2, instead of a 3-5-2. If that's not a convincing change for you, last time they played Celtic they lost 4-1 playing with a back 4, changing tactics from when they last played them resulted in a win.

Started the season playing a back 4 they'd won 3/9 league games, since changing to a 3/5 at the back model they've won 5/8.
Fair play then.

[neil7908]

Villa won. Hearts changed tactics yesterday and won. Tactical flexibility is a really fundamental part of football, especially when conditions aren't great like in Scotland, like yesterday.

They scored two after Brentford went a man down. They were struggling until that point.

Hibs took a point off Celtic playing 442 a few weeks ago.

We've played 433, 532 etc at Parkhead plenty of times and got smashed. In fact, loads on here were saying they wanted to see us have a go.

Changing tactics is absolutely no guarantee of anything.

[Smartie]

They scored two after Brentford went a man down. They were struggling until that point.

Hibs took a point off Celtic playing 442 a few weeks ago.

We've played 433, 532 etc at Parkhead plenty of times and got smashed. In fact, loads on here were saying they wanted to see us have a go.

Changing tactics is absolutely no guarantee of anything.

There are never guarantees but you'd expect that if you played tactics that suited your players then over the long term you'd pick up more points than sticking with tactics that don't suit them.

There are times when change is justified - like when you're not getting the best out of your best players.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Villa won. Hearts changed tactics yesterday and won. Tactical flexibility is a really fundamental part of football, especially when conditions aren't great like in Scotland, like yesterday.

:agree:

I said months ago that if Monty sticks with 4-4-2 he’ll get sacked by Hibs. I stand by that. Every week it feels more and more like teams are working us out. We’ve scraped a couple of wins recently that we barely deserved which has made things look rosier than they were.

4-4-2 is a gash formation anyway, it’s getting nowhere near enough out of all our best players. Throw in the fact we refuse to stray away from it and I honestly don’t see this ending well.

[007]

Villa won. Hearts changed tactics yesterday and won. Tactical flexibility is a really fundamental part of football, especially when conditions aren't great like in Scotland, like yesterday.

Out of interest, what was the Hearts change in tactics?

[blackpoolhibs]

Before i start, i like Monty and want him to build his team his way. And hopefully he gets the round pegs for the round holes he does not currently have in the coming windows.

I remember the talk from those who did not want MCinnes was his football is sheite, well what we see at Hibs just now is not much better, with a squad assembled by the last clown that cost a fortune in Hibs terms.

Surely any manager worth his salt puts a team out that suits their players best untl such times as he gets those players to suit the system he want to play.

Someone else mentioned he's got no plan B, he does have a plan B, but clearly does not want to use it.

There is two thoughts on that, he's either so sure his way is best and it will work, or he's stubborn and wont try anything else.

I personally think we do need a change of system, i've thought it from day 1, but we've done ok up till now, but i dont see it lasting.

Teams will suss out how to play against us with these players, in fact i think they are starting to already.

You cant get away with not giving 100% in our league, and we have players who dont, we've too many flair players to have any consistancy in my opinion.

[eastmainsmsh]

Playing from back is risky obv wants to implement his style and formation will back NM but if things don’t go our way ?

[#2 Double Tap]

It’s easy to say a change in formation would make us better however I think we have a squad more suited to 433 than the current 442

Marshall

Miller
Fish
Rocky/Hanlon
Obita

Newell
Jeggo
Levitt

Boyle
Vente
Youan/Jair

I reckon the above would get us more out of our better players


why not just leave hanlon and jair on the bench and play the strongest players we have ;)

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t think he can continue to do the one thing all the time, without it costing us. We need to play the game that’s in front of us at times.

But I find some of the takes one where we’re at with him bonkers. Rangers, Celtic and Hearts (by one point) have taken more points than Montgomery since he took over. He’s got us in to a position where we are well in the fight for third.

There are individuals that we aren’t getting enough from but, since he came in, results show that we’ve got more from the team. He gets the opportunity to start making changes in the next few weeks which is absolutely needed. I read a lot about us having a strong squad but just look at our bench most weeks, there’s very little there.

He’s doing fine but can, and I think will, do better.

[Real Emerald]

:agree:

I said months ago that if Monty sticks with 4-4-2 he’ll get sacked by Hibs. I stand by that. Every week it feels more and more like teams are working us out. We’ve scraped a couple of wins recently that we barely deserved which has made things look rosier than they were.

4-4-2 is a gash formation anyway, it’s getting nowhere near enough out of all our best players. Throw in the fact we refuse to stray away from it and I honestly don’t see this ending well.

I’m ok with 442 if we have a midfield but we’re playing with 4 forwards, one central mid and a defensive mid. Unless you lump balls up to the forwards there is zero option of playing from the back through our non existent midfield. It’s just crazy.

[DIXIHIBS]

Out of interest, what was the Hearts change in tactics?

Seems like the tactic was...give Celtic all the possession,77%,and hope they have an off day. They got lucky basically.

[Real Emerald]

Seems like the tactic was...give Celtic all the possession,77%,and hope they have an off day. They got lucky basically.

Yep, they managed to score a brilliant free kick (wish we had someone who could do that) and unbelievably left ‘the heid’ completely unmarked in the six yard box to score a great but unchallenged free header but they definitely lucked out, it happens. Celtic looked well off it as they did against Killie but still managed to spank us. 😡

[Northernhibee]

:agree:

I said months ago that if Monty sticks with 4-4-2 he’ll get sacked by Hibs. I stand by that. Every week it feels more and more like teams are working us out. We’ve scraped a couple of wins recently that we barely deserved which has made things look rosier than they were.

4-4-2 is a gash formation anyway, it’s getting nowhere near enough out of all our best players. Throw in the fact we refuse to stray away from it and I honestly don’t see this ending well.
Every week? We’ve won four of our last six.

[gaz1875]

What was LJ’s style of play?

Get the ball forward as fast as possible. You should know that, no need to be all Mikey Stewart about it.

[Kentao1985]

We have 2 of the best wide players in the league and they never get the chance to run at the defence or in behind. Vente looks a level above but is given no service. Our build up play is so slow and we rarely hit teams on the counter.

We need a driving force in midfield who can turn defence into attack when we break the press. At the moment it's dire to watch with no real gameplan on how to create chances.

Really hope Monty has a couple of decent players lined up once the window opens or he may be in bother come the end of the season.

3rd place is up for grabs with Hearts only goalscorer going to The Rangers (allegedly) and Aberdeen being a good few points behind.

If Monty can't get the players in to make the system work he really needs to change formation to suit our better players.



Sent from my moto g22 using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

Boyle gives everything but his best position is wide on the right. If we are to play two upfront-one should be Vente and one a player who can hold the ball up. Vente is a good player and takes up good positions. He would get plenty of chances if Boyle was pulling players out wide. It’s silly when trying a new formation not to use players in their best positions within that formation.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Every week? We’ve won four of our last six.

And in the last 4 weeks we’ve kept getting poorer.

We beat Aberdeen but they should never have lost that game. We got skelped by Celtic, beat Livi despite barely laying a glove on them and then lost yesterday with an absolutely atrocious performance. So yes, id say every week feels more and more like we’ve been worked out.

[B.H.F.C]

And in the last 4 weeks we’ve kept getting poorer.

We beat Aberdeen but they should never have lost that game. We got skelped by Celtic, beat Livi despite barely laying a glove on them and then lost yesterday with an absolutely atrocious performance. So yes, id say every week feels more and more like we’ve been worked out.

Does it feel worse than when Montgomery was appointed? Or are we in a much better position?

[Alex Trager]

Get the ball forward as fast as possible. You should know that, no need to be all Mikey Stewart about it.

My recollection of LJ was that he’d stumble across a formation/team that would work and he would stick with it until it either never worked or it wasn’t possible to play the same team.

Then he’d pull the tombola out and we’d go on a losing streak as he tried to find another team/formation that would work.

I never really seen much in the way of tactics, but what I do recall was that we constantly lost goals from crosses. Rinse and repeat the same goal every single week.

In terms of attacking, I thought we played best at home to Luzern (442).

We are struggling a bit currently with not many options up top to help Vente.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Does it feel worse than when Montgomery was appointed? Or are we in a much better position?

It’s certainly not any more enjoyable to watch or all that much better performance wise imo. I’d say our two best performances of the season came under LJ and SDG.

Results wise it’s better at this point in time. Will that remain the case in 2 or 3 weeks? I’m not so sure.

For all that we have been on a good run, the performances haven’t matched results imo. Once things start to level out I reckon we’ll be found out for being pretty average.

A lot of folk seen through Heckingbottom despite an extremely positive start to his tenure. The warning signs are there to an extent for me with Montgomery. It feels very reminiscent of his time here and I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see it go a very similar way.

[B.H.F.C]

It’s certainly not any more enjoyable to watch or all that much better performance wise imo.

Results wise it’s better at this point in time. Will that remain the case in 2 or 3 weeks? I’m not so sure.

For all that we have been on a good run, the performances haven’t matched results imo. Once things start to level out I reckon we’ll be found out for being pretty average.

The January window will dictate our season. If we can get some very good individuals in with foleys investment then we could challenge for third. If we sign more along the lines of what we have and continue trying to play the way we are currently then we’ll not really do any better than last season imo. I’ve said it all along but a mid table team playing 4-4-2 in this league will not succeed and I haven’t seen anything much so far to change my mind on that front.

A lot of folk seen through Heckingbottom despite an extremely positive start to his tenure. The warning signs are there to an extent for me with Montgomery and it feels very reminiscent of his time here.

The thing is, we can only really judge it on what has happened as opposed to anything hypothetical. We might pick up points between now and the break, we might not. But we’re only guessing either way. If you’re just looking at what has happened you have to say he’s done a decent job with plenty room for improvement

We were never going to transform over night. He’s managed to do all right results wise without being able to make any changes to the squad. For all that we’ve picked up points without playing particularly well, we’ve also thrown points away from winning positions on multiple occasions that we shouldn’t have.

[Stubbsy90+2]

The thing is, we can only really judge it on what has happened as opposed to anything hypothetical. We might pick up points between now and the break, we might not. But we’re only guessing either way. If you’re just looking at what has happened you have to say he’s done a decent job with plenty room for improvement

We were never going to transform over night. He’s managed to do all right results wise without being able to make any changes to the squad. For all that we’ve picked up points without playing particularly well, we’ve also thrown points away from winning positions on multiple occasions that we shouldn’t have.

You can only judge on what’s happened if you want to work purely on factual evidence. You can still use the evidence so far in terms of performance to create an opinion on how you think things might go in future without it matching the statistical evidence though. For example, I, and many others, were certain LJ would get sacked this season. However the evidence last season was of a manager who finished 5th which is about par for the course for Hibs. Despite that evidence though, I, and many others, didn’t expect him to do the same this year.

My opinion is based more on feel, than evidence, but as I posted above, this is currently screaming Paul Heckingbottom to me. No idea how to play against the Old Firm, what feels like an inability or a lack of willingness to alter their tactics to suit the Scottish game/specific games and results that initially are above what the performances probably deserved.

After the transfer window will be the time to really judge him though. However if he is going to stick with his style of play and 4-4-2 then I stand by my original thoughts. As a mid table team in our league, it’s destined to fail

[BoomtownHibees]

No idea how to play against the Old Firm, what feels like an inability or a lack of willingness to alter their tactics to suit the Scottish game/specific games and results that initially are above what the performances probably deserved.


Yet we drew with one of them not that long ago

What games, since Monty came in, have we got something from that you don’t think were deserved? Livingston aye, Aberdeen probably (although we were pretty decent from an attacking sense in that game)

[Winston Ingram]

:agree:

I said months ago that if Monty sticks with 4-4-2 he’ll get sacked by Hibs. I stand by that. Every week it feels more and more like teams are working us out. We’ve scraped a couple of wins recently that we barely deserved which has made things look rosier than they were.

4-4-2 is a gash formation anyway, it’s getting nowhere near enough out of all our best players. Throw in the fact we refuse to stray away from it and I honestly don’t see this ending well.

100%. David Marshall has saved his bacon massively in the last few weeks.

No decent attacking sides anywhere play it for the sole reason that it doesn’t work in modern football.

Ye just need to watch us every week to see why. Zero creativity, and we ship shed loads of chances week after week.

He’s wasting our attacking talent.

[J-C]

100%. David Marshall has saved his bacon massively in the last few weeks.

No decent attacking sides anywhere play it for the sole reason that it doesn’t work in modern football.

Ye just need to watch us every week to see why. Zero creativity, and we ship shed loads of chances week after week.

He’s wasting our attacking talent.

Better tell Unai Emery then as his team is currently sitting 3rd in the EPL by playing 442 most weeks, it's not the system but the players we have.

[Hibernia&Alba]

How can a team that plays 442 be boring to watch? We seem to be managing it. 442 is meant to be two attacking wingers who run at full backs and get crosses in, creating lots of chances. That isn’t us just now.

[Winston Ingram]

Better tell Unai Emery then as his team is currently sitting 3rd in the EPL by playing 442 most weeks, it's not the system but the players we have.

They’re only a usually a 442 when they abandon their press out of possession.


When in possession they’re usually very much 4231. Diaby usually plays as the 10, McGinn/Bailey/Zaniolo tend to play in very narrow wide positions.

Add to that, unlike Monty, he often of changes formation. Yesterday they matched up with Brentford and played a 352.

[Centre Hawf]

I said it in the Elie Youan thread that I think we're stifling the attacking talent we have with this system. The only one that has really kicked on is Jair, which I think is majority down to his hunger to prove everyone wrong. But Boyle and Elie have gone backwards and Vente's lack of service is just astonishingly bad.

I've not liked 442 for a while and I think it just asks too much of everyone in our team, we need to simplify their roles ever so slightly in my opinion. Out of curiosity does anyone know if anyone else in our league plays 442 and how they're getting on? I'd put my money on the likelihood being that it's not been a very successful formation in this division/league for a long time. It just outnumbers you in far too many areas if you're not set up well to play it.

[Winston Ingram]

I said it in the Elie Youan thread that I think we're stifling the attacking talent we have with this system. The only one that has really kicked on is Jair, which I think is majority down to his hunger to prove everyone wrong. But Boyle and Elie have gone backwards and Vente's lack of service is just astonishingly bad.

I've not liked 442 for a while and I think it just asks too much of everyone in our team, we need to simplify their roles ever so slightly in my opinion. Out of curiosity does anyone know if anyone else in our league plays 442 and how they're getting on? I'd put my money on the likelihood being that it's not been a very successful formation in this division/league for a long time. It just outnumbers you in far too many areas if you're not set up well to play it.

Totally agree. Boyle and Youan are playing far too deep.

[B.H.F.C]

I said it in the Elie Youan thread that I think we're stifling the attacking talent we have with this system. The only one that has really kicked on is Jair, which I think is majority down to his hunger to prove everyone wrong. But Boyle and Elie have gone backwards and Vente's lack of service is just astonishingly bad.

I've not liked 442 for a while and I think it just asks too much of everyone in our team, we need to simplify their roles ever so slightly in my opinion. Out of curiosity does anyone know if anyone else in our league plays 442 and how they're getting on? I'd put my money on the likelihood being that it's not been a very successful formation in this division/league for a long time. It just outnumbers you in far too many areas if you're not set up well to play it.

I don’t think anyone else does play it but since the manager came in, and we started playing it every week, Rangers, Celtic and Hearts (by a point) have taken more points than us. We’re also the top scorers outside of the big two. So it’s not as if we’re doing something that isn’t working whatsoever.

For me, it’s not so much the shape but the way in which we want to play. It’s too slow and there is a lack of intent when we have the ball. That needs to change more than the shape IMO. You could play any shape you want but if the you’re just pissing about between your centre halves and the goalie half the time it wouldn’t make much difference.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I said it in the Elie Youan thread that I think we're stifling the attacking talent we have with this system. The only one that has really kicked on is Jair, which I think is majority down to his hunger to prove everyone wrong. But Boyle and Elie have gone backwards and Vente's lack of service is just astonishingly bad.

I've not liked 442 for a while and I think it just asks too much of everyone in our team, we need to simplify their roles ever so slightly in my opinion. Out of curiosity does anyone know if anyone else in our league plays 442 and how they're getting on? I'd put my money on the likelihood being that it's not been a very successful formation in this division/league for a long time. It just outnumbers you in far too many areas if you're not set up well to play it.

Said the same a while ago now. Whilst it’s to be commended how he’s managed to improve the likes of Jair, Montgomerys arrival has also coincided with the likes of Boyle and Youan really struggling, a drop in Newells form who was absolutely excellent before he came in and Vente and Levitt offering nowhere near enough. Those guys in theory should all be our best players but this formation doesn’t suit any of them.

[J-C]

They’re only a usually a 442 when they abandon their press out of possession.


When in possession they’re usually very much 4231. Diaby usually plays as the 10, McGinn/Bailey/Zaniolo tend to play in very narrow wide positions.

Add to that, unlike Monty, he often of changes formation. Yesterday they matched up with Brentford and played a 352.
My point is you need the players good enough to play that way, we don't and when a few are off it, we struggle. We're playing 2 attacking players in Jair and Youan left and right midfield,both aren't great defensively, so we get exposed.

[Greenio]

:agree:

I said months ago that if Monty sticks with 4-4-2 he’ll get sacked by Hibs. I stand by that. Every week it feels more and more like teams are working us out. We’ve scraped a couple of wins recently that we barely deserved which has made things look rosier than they were.

4-4-2 is a gash formation anyway, it’s getting nowhere near enough out of all our best players. Throw in the fact we refuse to stray away from it and I honestly don’t see this ending well.

It's not the formation that will get him sacked, it's the results and to think that results are down to formation is missing the point. So we move to a 433 get beat, play badly, you don't think he'd be sacked then too? Honestly, the idea that the formation is the be all and end all of us winning or losing is madness

[Smartie]

It's not the formation that will get him sacked, it's the results and to think that results are down to formation is missing the point. So we move to a 433 get beat, play badly, you don't think he'd be sacked then too? Honestly, the idea that the formation is the be all and end all of us winning or losing is madness

When LJ was manager at the start of the season we were well beaten a couple of times at home against smaller clubs and we were playing 433. Robinson came out after the game against St Mirren and pretty much stated that his game plan as to stop us getting the ball out to Youan and Boyle which they performed to perfection.

So whilst I do believe we would be better off playing that formation than the one we're currently playing, it does feel a bit weird to be demanding that Monty do something that ultimately cost LJ his job. By playing much the same team in the same system, what exactly is he going to do drastically differently to achieve different results?

[Baader]

Bit concerned about Montgomery's inflexibility re the formation and system and him possibly putting square pegs into round holes. Boyle, Vente and Youan or Tavares need to be playing as a front 3. Seeing how much other teams can adapt and tweak per match but us being rigid has a few alarm bells ringing for me as I don't think we have the players to play the way he wants. I think we have a very good front line but we aren't showing that right now... Wanted Montgomery for the job and fully behind him just becoming concerned it's a bit one dimensional.

[3pm]

The problem in this team is the midfield. It's been poor for nearly 6 years.

Newell is the top man and he'd have been scrapping for a place on the bench in the SJM, Dylan and Allan dream team.

[Stubbsy90+2]

It's not the formation that will get him sacked, it's the results and to think that results are down to formation is missing the point. So we move to a 433 get beat, play badly, you don't think he'd be sacked then too? Honestly, the idea that the formation is the be all and end all of us winning or losing is madness

And I quite clearly meant that over time, playing 4-4-2 will lead to results that will get him sacked. I’m surprised that has to be explained.

If we played 4-3-3, get beat, play badly then he’ll be sacked for that as well. This squad is quite clearly infinitely more suited to playing that way though.

To think that results won’t be dictated by formations and styles of play is madness. We wouldn’t bother having a manager if that was the case.

[Craig_in_Prague]

The problem in this team is the midfield. It's been poor for nearly 6 years.



Amen!!

[Chorley Hibee]

The problem in this team is the midfield. It's been poor for nearly 6 years.

Newell is the top man and he'd have been scrapping for a place on the bench in the SJM, Dylan and Allan dream team.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see it ignored again in this window.

As you say, it's been staring us all in the face for far too long.

[Greenio]

And I quite clearly meant that over time, playing 4-4-2 will lead to results that will get him sacked. I’m surprised that has to be explained.

If we played 4-3-3, get beat, play badly then he’ll be sacked for that as well. This squad is quite clearly infinitely more suited to playing that way though.

To think that results won’t be dictated by formations and styles of play is madness. We wouldn’t bother having a manager if that was the case.

My point is that people are oversimplifying our 'problems'. That 442 isn't 'the answer' and that 433 is.

A formation is one part of a strategy. Tactics, recruitment, training, subs, individual skill, effort, culture, mentality, man management...plus more.

It's less important that people think it is and imo it's just frustration, trying to find something that they can say 'do this one thing and all will be ok'

[Stubbsy90+2]

My point is that people are oversimplifying our 'problems'. That 442 isn't 'the answer' and that 433 is.

A formation is one part of a strategy. Tactics, recruitment, training, subs, individual skill, effort, culture, mentality, man management...plus more.

It's less important that people think it is and imo it's just frustration, trying to find something that they can say 'do this one thing and all will be ok'

Na not for me. Of course the other things you mention play a part as well, but playing all your best players in a system/formation that do not get the most out of them is a massive issue and a very important one.

[Centre Hawf]

I don’t think anyone else does play it but since the manager came in, and we started playing it every week, Rangers, Celtic and Hearts (by a point) have taken more points than us. We’re also the top scorers outside of the big two. So it’s not as if we’re doing something that isn’t working whatsoever.

For me, it’s not so much the shape but the way in which we want to play. It’s too slow and there is a lack of intent when we have the ball. That needs to change more than the shape IMO. You could play any shape you want but if the you’re just pissing about between your centre halves and the goalie half the time it wouldn’t make much difference.

I think the truth lies with a mixture of both in what we're both suggesting. I think Saturday had a few prime examples of us playing it out from the back and nearly costing us (the goal being one that did come from a silly goal kick routine), we hadn't been able to string more than 3/4 passes all game and yet we never once thought to try going back to forward a lot quicker.

I hate to give Levein any credit but I couldn't help feel for the majority of the game he had us where he wanted us, and knew they just had to take a clear chance when it finally came. We had no answers at all but to keep trying tippy tappy stuff at the back that was slow and ponderous. Then when we did get into the final third it was so tight and compact no one could use their pace or get free.

[blackpoolhibs]

My point is that people are oversimplifying our 'problems'. That 442 isn't 'the answer' and that 433 is.

A formation is one part of a strategy. Tactics, recruitment, training, subs, individual skill, effort, culture, mentality, man management...plus more.

It's less important that people think it is and imo it's just frustration, trying to find something that they can say 'do this one thing and all will be ok'

Two defensive central midfielders in Levitt and Jeggo were never going to create anything, coupled with two inconsistent wide players who don't really want to track back was a recipe for disaster.its not a crime to change the system because you don't have the correct players for the system you want to play, it is a crime to not see what you are doing and not try and change it though.

[Since452]

I don't really understand dropping Rocky either. Or bringing Campbell in from nowhere, having him play well and pop up with a couple of important goals and then dropping him again. Unless they had knocks? Rocky is now clearly superior to Hanlon in almost every area. Not sure if he's trying to rotate the squad or just can't make up his mind.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Two defensive central midfielders in Levitt and Jeggo were never going to create anything, coupled with two inconsistent wide players who don't really want to track back was a recipe for disaster.its not a crime to change the system because you don't have the correct players for the system you want to play, it is a crime to not see what you are doing and not try and change it though.

💯

[Centre Hawf]

I don't really understand dropping Rocky either. Or bringing Campbell in from nowhere, having him play well and pop up with a couple of important goals and then dropping him again. Unless they had knocks? Rocky is now clearly superior to Hanlon in almost every area. Not sure if he's trying to rotate the squad or just can't make up his mind.

Campbell was the bizarre one. Our results have been better since he came in and goals since the semi-final probably points to him as our in form player so to speak. So to see him dropped to force Boyle through the middle was strange. But not as much as him coming on at RB over Whittaker.

[Hibee Daft]

I was quite excited by the prospects of playing 'propa football' four four ****ing two.

But each time ive watched it we have never really controlled the game but ended up getting chances and winning until our last game.


My main concern is how hollow our team seem under it, at times it feels like were playing with 4 out and out attackers that dont help with build up play.

I think this formation can work with the right players.

A new left back and Cadden returning could see Obita and Cadden as Left and Right mid which i think would make us far more solid and help the center midfielders out.

[J-C]

Two defensive central midfielders in Levitt and Jeggo were never going to create anything, coupled with two inconsistent wide players who don't really want to track back was a recipe for disaster.its not a crime to change the system because you don't have the correct players for the system you want to play, it is a crime to not see what you are doing and not try and change it though.

💯
I've said this on numerous posts, we don't have the players to play 442 properly, not just midfield or on the wings but defensively either. Play to our strengths abd get a couple of windows to get the players he needs.

[The Modfather]

💯
I've said this on numerous posts, we don't have the players to play 442 properly, not just midfield or on the wings but defensively either. Play to our strengths abd get a couple of windows to get the players he needs.

I don’t think we have the players to play any formation properly. 433 probably the best fit with what we have. However we played 433 the first 3 games of the season and were woeful.

The downside to 433 is it would likely continue to leave Vente isolated as he needs a partner. There’s also not enough drive, goals or assists from any combination of a 3 from our midfield options. I’m also still not sure I’d be hanging my season on Boyle & Youan as sadly think they are better on paper than in reality.

The players are the main problem for me rather than any formation. I think it’s time to back Monty & 442 and start to buy a squad that fits a formation rather than continue to try and find a formation to suit an inconsistent, and threadbare in areas, squad. Find out what players can play 442 and replace those that can’t regardless of who they are.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I don’t think we have the players to play any formation properly. 433 probably the best fit with what we have. However we played 433 the first 3 games of the season and were woeful.

The downside to 433 is it would likely continue to leave Vente isolated as he needs a partner. There’s also not enough drive, goals or assists from any combination of a 3 from our midfield options. I’m also still not sure I’d be hanging my season on Boyle & Youan as sadly think they are better on paper than in reality.

The players are the main problem for me rather than any formation. I think it’s time to back Monty & 442 and start to buy a squad that fits a formation rather than continue to try and find a formation to suit an inconsistent, and threadbare in areas, squad. Find out what players can play 442 and replace those that can’t regardless of who they are.

Does Vente need a partner? He appears to have played up top in a 4-2-3-1 (which is to all intents and purposes a 4-3-3) for alot of last season and scored plenty.

We hear the same about nearly every striker we ever have. Most teams only play with one through the middle, I’d question why we keep signing guys who need a partner if they genuinely do need a partner because not many teams play that way. I always feel like the ‘they need a partner’ stuff just starts to feel like excuses being made for players not performing if I’m honest.

I know a manager has to be backed, it would be daft to appoint them and not back them (we’ve already done that with Maloney). I’d question appointing a manager who’s only system is 4-4-2 though. As we all know, managing a football team is a short term endeavour. Appointing someone who’s going to need to build a squad to suit a formation that his predecessor didn’t really use and his successor almost certainly won’t use seems extremely high risk to me. If we build a squad for Monty and he leaves in a year or so, which history suggests he likely will, we’ll be sitting here with the next guy saying the same things folk are saying about Monty - he’s not got the players to fit his preferred system, the new man wants to play 4-3-3 but we let go of Youan and Boyle and now we have no wingers/pace etc.

Rather than buying into a manager and his system, I’d have thought it would make more sense for someone like McDermott to make a bit of a call as to what we want a Hibs team to look like and build from there (that’s not to say he hasn’t done that I suppose). If you just appoint a manager and rip up the style of play that the last manager uses then we’ll just constantly watch a huge turnover of players who aren’t suited to each manager because there’s no coherent strategy.

[The Modfather]

Does Vente need a partner? He appears to have played up top in a 4-2-3-1 for alot of last season and scored plenty.

We hear the same about nearly every striker we ever have. Most teams only play with one through the middle, I’d question why we keep signing guys who need a partner if they genuinely do need a partner because not many teams play that way. I always feel like the ‘they need a partner’ stuff just starts to feel like excuses being made for players not performing if I’m honest.

I know a manager has to be backed, it would be daft to appoint them and not back them (we’ve already done that with Maloney). I’d question appointing a manager who’s only system is 4-4-2 though. As we all know, managing a football team is a short term endeavour. Appointing someone who’s going to need to build a squad to suit a formation that his predecessor didn’t really use and his successor almost certainly won’t use seems extremely high risk to me. If we build a squad for Monty and he leaves in a year or so, which history suggests he likely will, we’ll be sitting here with the next guy saying the same things folk are saying about Monty - he’s not got the players to fit his preferred system etc.

Rather than buying into a manager and his system, I’d have thought it would make more sense for someone like McDermott to make a bit of a call as to what we want a Hibs team to look like and build from there (that’s not to say he hasn’t done that I suppose). If you just appoint a manager and rip up the style of play that the last manager uses then we’ll just constantly watch a huge turnover of players who aren’t suited to each manager because there’s no coherent strategy.

I think Vente does need a partner. He’s a lethal finisher and a clever footballer but doesn’t have the physicality or athleticism to play up top in the way someone like Big Mike does. That’s also based on the static and one paced midfield options we have who wouldn’t/don’t get up to support him. As someone else mentioned previously Steven Robinson called it in the St Mirren win earlier in the season. Mark Boyle & Youan (in a 433) and you stop Hibs. Do that and Vente would need to create his own chances, which I don’t think is his game.

I think the partner for Vente, the guy that drops into midfield and knits the midfield and attack together is probably one of the key positions to make Monty’s 442 work. We don’t have annyone able to effectively play that role. When we do I think we’ll see more of a 442 in possession and 451 out of possession hybrid that addresses the no man’s land were in just now.

Formations aren’t the be all and end all IMO. I’m hoping that McDermott had brought in Monty to finally build a balanced squad, one including youngsters coming through, that fits his formation and not just continue the cycle of the last 5 or 6 managers of buying a squad of good individual players and see how they fit together. We finally start buying players for specific roles and not buying players and then finding a role for them. I don’t see Monty’s style or the type of player he will probably buy being too niche for the next man to inherit and work with.Time will tell, but I think the next man will inherit a more balanced squad than the one Monty inherited.

[blackpoolhibs]

I think Vente does need a partner. He’s a lethal finisher and a clever footballer but doesn’t have the physicality or athleticism to play up top in the way someone like Big Mike does. That’s also based on the static and one paced midfield options we have who wouldn’t/don’t get up to support him. As someone else mentioned previously Steven Robinson called it in the St Mirren win earlier in the season. Mark Boyle & Youan (in a 433) and you stop Hibs. Do that and Vente would need to create his own chances, which I don’t think is his game.

I think the partner for Vente, the guy that drops into midfield and knits the midfield and attack together is probably one of the key positions to make Monty’s 442 work. We don’t have annyone able to effectively play that role. When we do I think we’ll see more of a 442 in possession and 451 out of possession hybrid that addresses the no man’s land were in just now.

Formations aren’t the be all and end all IMO. I’m hoping that McDermott had brought in Monty to finally build a balanced squad, one including youngsters coming through, that fits his formation and not just continue the cycle of the last 5 or 6 managers of buying a squad of good individual players and see how they fit together. We finally start buying players for specific roles and not buying players and then finding a role for them. I don’t see Monty’s style or the type of player he will probably buy being too niche for the next man to inherit and work with.Time will tell, but I think the next man will inherit a more balanced squad than the one Monty inherited.

I disagree with that, when you had on Saturday 2 holding central midfielders, and 2 wide men who do not have the ability to track back and help all game, but do give us options going forward, it does not take Einstein to see we will not get up the park enough or even quickly enough when needed.

We have won games playing 4-4-2 when we've had Newell in there driving us forward, we clearly did not have the players on Saturday to do it, the formation needed changed, only one man couldnt see that.

[Smartie]

I don’t think we have the players to play any formation properly. 433 probably the best fit with what we have. However we played 433 the first 3 games of the season and were woeful.

The downside to 433 is it would likely continue to leave Vente isolated as he needs a partner. There’s also not enough drive, goals or assists from any combination of a 3 from our midfield options. I’m also still not sure I’d be hanging my season on Boyle & Youan as sadly think they are better on paper than in reality.

The players are the main problem for me rather than any formation. I think it’s time to back Monty & 442 and start to buy a squad that fits a formation rather than continue to try and find a formation to suit an inconsistent, and threadbare in areas, squad. Find out what players can play 442 and replace those that can’t regardless of who they are.

I agree with much of this.

Re Vente - we don't really know how he'd get on in this formation, I don't tend to love the 451/433 as it does often tend to leave a striker isolated but I don't think it would do us any harm right now to have a striker constantly on the shoulder of the last defender giving us a threat in behind, rather than them both dropping off and working hard.

Potentially that formation could feel a bit more dominant in the middle - I like the idea of Fish and either Hanlon or Rocky with Jeggo protecting them and then with Newell and Levitt playing further up the field. It's more likely to get a proper foot on the ball than what we have currently, as well as being harder for other teams to either play through or break through.

On paper Youan, Vente and Boyle feels like it should be a potent forward line but for whatever reason we haven't seen anything like what we'd maybe have expected from these players this season and I wonder if it's down to more than just formation? They maybe just don't really hit it off together. I'm starting to think it needs to be Boyle or Youan with other players fitting around them, Tavares actually making himself the most selectable player out of all of the attackers in recent months. You could probably select Campbell in place of Levitt in what I suggested above but then that isn't a million miles off what we've actually been doing some of the time.

[J-C]

Vente has a partner in Boyle but the balls getting played into them are scarce or non existent. Campbell plays in the gap between the midfield 2 and the striker, so he chips in with some dirty work and in the final 3rd. Not saying Campbell is the answer but a player who can create in the final 3rd and graft when needed.

[Winston Ingram]

My point is you need the players good enough to play that way, we don't and when a few are off it, we struggle. We're playing 2 attacking players in Jair and Youan left and right midfield,both aren't great defensively, so we get exposed.

Why do we need to play that way? Where is the evidence that it works? No decent attacking side anywhere plays the way we do. 442 died on it's arse nearly 15 years ago because of all of the reasons is failing for us right now.

We have a squad that is designed to play 433. There's plenty evidence that works.

In the summer, we spent £1.25m on 2 attackers to add to the guy we sold for £3m 18 months ago and brought back and surprise surprise, when playing them out of position, they aren't performing very well. There's little evidence to suggest that their performance will improve either as they just seem to be getting worse.

So what should we do? Write off that cash because one guy, and one guy only thinks this way of playing works and try and find some players that fit this formation?

[Weir07]

The whole passing between keeper and centre halfs/fullbacks to start the attacks didn't work under Maloney and don't see any improvement under Montgomery, feels like the latest fad or fashion that will be consigned to the history books when the new trend is in place, it's awful to watch, at least at Hibs level.

[Northernhibee]

I've seen posts on here comparing where McInnes has Kilmarnock on a smaller budget, but there's one resource that he's had much more of and that's time. Both at Killie and in the league. He's in his third season at that club, and has been a manager in this league for over ten years. He's had a chance to get "his" players in, coach a style into the team, and make changes to the club as a whole.

Monty has been in the door for three months or so, having taken the team with the second smallest budget to winning the A-League Cup within a couple of seasons or so. He's clearly got a style of play that he's gotten to work at a similar level to the Scottish Premiership, and used youth along the way.

He's brought on the likes of Jair, Whittaker, Rocky, and Jair a long way in a short time. He's making changes to the way we play football to be able to try to dominate possession in a game and draw teams out (and how often under Jack Ross did we complain that when a team sat in, we'd never win the game). Yes, some players are still adapting to the new style of play but in any walk of life or business, when changes happen there are winners and losers to that change.

We had a very poor performance at the weekend. Really poor. We've also found ourselves back in the hunt for third place after taking zero points from our first three games, and Aston Villa at ER showing us just how easy it was to score against us (get the ball out on the wing, cross it to the back post, goal).

He's got a lot to fix, a lot to change. We score more and look a bit better at the back. We're approaching a window where he can begin to get his players in.

The over reaction to a poor performance is disappointing.

In Monty I trust.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I've seen posts on here comparing where McInnes has Kilmarnock on a smaller budget, but there's one resource that he's had much more of and that's time. Both at Killie and in the league. He's in his third season at that club, and has been a manager in this league for over ten years. He's had a chance to get "his" players in, coach a style into the team, and make changes to the club as a whole.

Monty has been in the door for three months or so, having taken the team with the second smallest budget to winning the A-League Cup within a couple of seasons or so. He's clearly got a style of play that he's gotten to work at a similar level to the Scottish Premiership, and used youth along the way.

He's brought on the likes of Jair, Whittaker, Rocky, and Jair a long way in a short time. He's making changes to the way we play football to be able to try to dominate possession in a game and draw teams out (and how often under Jack Ross did we complain that when a team sat in, we'd never win the game). Yes, some players are still adapting to the new style of play but in any walk of life or business, when changes happen there are winners and losers to that change.

We had a very poor performance at the weekend. Really poor. We've also found ourselves back in the hunt for third place after taking zero points from our first three games, and Aston Villa at ER showing us just how easy it was to score against us (get the ball out on the wing, cross it to the back post, goal).

He's got a lot to fix, a lot to change. We score more and look a bit better at the back. We're approaching a window where he can begin to get his players in.

The over reaction to a poor performance is disappointing.

In Monty I trust.


The big issue for me is that our style of play has left what should be our four best players in Newell, Boyle, Youan and Vente delivering nowhere near as much as they should be. It’s great that he’s got guys like Rocky and Jair playing well but that’s been negated and then some by the form of our big four, none of which suit the role they’re playing.

If you can’t get your best players performing then you’ll struggle. I would say he needs to find roles that suit those 4 but by all accounts he’s sticking with what he prefers so I don’t hold out much hope we’ll see any of them perform consistently well, and by extension, I’d be surprised to see us perform consistently well as a team.

[B.H.F.C]

The big issue for me is that our style of play has left what should be our four best players in Newell, Boyle, Youan and Vente delivering nowhere near as much as they should be. It’s great that he’s got guys like Rocky and Jair playing well but that’s been negated and then some by the form of our big four, none of which suit the role they’re playing.

If you can’t get your best players performing then you’ll struggle.

What can’t be disputed is that he’s got the team producing more.

Early in the season Youan, in particular, looked far more dangerous than he does currently. But we were chucking goals in left, right and centre and losing in Andorra amongst other places.

Maybe he’s just asking players to do different things for the benefit of the team? Until he has the chance to make some changes, that is perhaps what he has to do. If we’re 3 or 4 months down the line or in to next season and he still looks like he can’t get a tune from some of those good players, then you’ve got a problem.

[Northernhibee]

The big issue for me is that our style of play has left what should be our four best players in Newell, Boyle, Youan and Vente delivering nowhere near as much as they should be. It’s great that he’s got guys like Rocky and Jair playing well but that’s been negated and then some by the form of our big four, none of which suit the role they’re playing.

If you can’t get your best players performing then you’ll struggle. I would say he needs to find roles that suit those 4 but by all accounts he’s sticking with what he prefers so I don’t hold out much hope we’ll see any of them perform consistently well, and by extension, I’d be surprised to see us perform consistently well as a team.

Newell's been performing well and we really missed him at the weekend. If the other three don't fit into the new style of play and Montgomery can bring in players who will perform better, then sucks to be them but then they don't have a guaranteed place in the team.

We keep sacking managers but then also keep playing the old reliable players, then the cycle continues.

[JimBHibees]

I've seen posts on here comparing where McInnes has Kilmarnock on a smaller budget, but there's one resource that he's had much more of and that's time. Both at Killie and in the league. He's in his third season at that club, and has been a manager in this league for over ten years. He's had a chance to get "his" players in, coach a style into the team, and make changes to the club as a whole.

Monty has been in the door for three months or so, having taken the team with the second smallest budget to winning the A-League Cup within a couple of seasons or so. He's clearly got a style of play that he's gotten to work at a similar level to the Scottish Premiership, and used youth along the way.

He's brought on the likes of Jair, Whittaker, Rocky, and Jair a long way in a short time. He's making changes to the way we play football to be able to try to dominate possession in a game and draw teams out (and how often under Jack Ross did we complain that when a team sat in, we'd never win the game). Yes, some players are still adapting to the new style of play but in any walk of life or business, when changes happen there are winners and losers to that change.

We had a very poor performance at the weekend. Really poor. We've also found ourselves back in the hunt for third place after taking zero points from our first three games, and Aston Villa at ER showing us just how easy it was to score against us (get the ball out on the wing, cross it to the back post, goal).

He's got a lot to fix, a lot to change. We score more and look a bit better at the back. We're approaching a window where he can begin to get his players in.

The over reaction to a poor performance is disappointing.

In Monty I trust.

Agree with every word

[Springbank]

The current team is relatively similar to the early 90s side

Leighton / Marshall (Ex Scotland goalies)

Miller / Miller (limited, no-nonsense right backs who will suffer the occasional suspension)
Mitchell / Stevenson (good servants, experienced pros, unspectacular, but who fit into middle SPFL standard relatively comfortably)
Hunter / Hanlon (great servants)
Tweed / Rocky (the guy you'd want going into a 50/50 but not always a comfy watch when on the ball)

McGinlay / Newell (some real moments of class & popular midfielders)
Hamilton / Levitt (the guy you can't understand what the hell the manager sees in him - always plays, but seeing his name on the teamsheet lifts the opposition)
MacAllister / Boyle (immensely popular right wingers, sometimes played out of position by the management)
O'Neill / Jair (tricky wingers and get you out your seat when on form)

Wright / Vente (at their best when working their socks off, and capable of finishing to a great standard)
Jackson / Youan - can be the difference, can frustrate, but there's a great player in there (in both cases)

[J-C]

During the interview process, Monty would've told them his style and game ethos, he would've known what players we have and of they fitted that system, if not then a style that did suit us better till he got his own players in.

[Stubbsy90+2]

What can’t be disputed is that he’s got the team producing more.

Early in the season Youan, in particular, looked far more dangerous than he does currently. But we were chucking goals in left, right and centre and losing in Andorra amongst other places.

Maybe he’s just asking players to do different things for the benefit of the team? Until he has the chance to make some changes, that is perhaps what he has to do. If we’re 3 or 4 months down the line or in to next season and he still looks like he can’t get a tune from some of those good players, then you’ve got a problem.

In terms of results, that’s inarguable. In terms of performances, I’m not so sure. All our best performances this season have come pre Montgomery imo. Now that’s not a massive issue if we continue getting the results we have, I’m just not convinced we will. I think things will level out a bit going forward, but the proof will be in the pudding on that front. I don’t watch this team and see a team that I expect to challenge for 3rd over the course of a season.

[JimBHibees]

The current team is relatively similar to the early 90s side

Leighton / Marshall (Ex Scotland goalies)

Miller / Miller (limited, no-nonsense right backs who will suffer the occasional suspension)
Mitchell / Stevenson (good servants, experienced pros, unspectacular, but who fit into middle SPFL standard relatively comfortably)
Hunter / Hanlon (great servants)
Tweed / Rocky (the guy you'd want going into a 50/50 but not always a comfy watch when on the ball)

McGinlay / Newell (some real moments of class & popular midfielders)
Hamilton / Levitt (the guy you can't understand what the hell the manager sees in him - always plays, but seeing his name on the teamsheet lifts the opposition)
MacAllister / Boyle (immensely popular right wingers, sometimes played out of position by the management)
O'Neill / Jair (tricky wingers and get you out your seat when on form)

Wright / Vente (at their best when working their socks off, and capable of finishing to a great standard)
Jackson / Youan - can be the difference, can frustrate, but there's a great player in there (in both cases)

Always thought Tweed wasn’t the strongest given his size. Geebsy on the other hand

[matty_f]

I am a bit concerned that the number of chances we’re creating has absolutely fallen off a cliff - particularly when Monty said they’d been working on attacking play in training.

I don’t know if we’re maybe seeing a similar situation as we saw with Maloney where the attacking movement is too deliberate and forced. We saw it work fantastically well for Jair’s goal v Dundee but it feels like other sides have clocked how to nullify it, and with little in the way of improvisation, when we’re stifled once, we’re stifled for the whole game.

Some of that is on the players but it’s ultimately the manager’s job to get a system that creates chances and goals.

Maloney couldn’t get a balance between being defensively solid and creating chances. Since we’ve tightened up at the back, Monty has had the same challenge.

[Edinburgh Green]

I am a bit concerned that the number of chances we’re creating has absolutely fallen off a cliff - particularly when Monty said they’d been working on attacking play in training.

I don’t know if we’re maybe seeing a similar situation as we saw with Maloney where the attacking movement is too deliberate and forced. We saw it work fantastically well for Jair’s goal v Dundee but it feels like other sides have clocked how to nullify it, and with little in the way of improvisation, when we’re stifled once, we’re stifled for the whole game.

Some of that is on the players but it’s ultimately the manager’s job to get a system that creates chances and goals.

Maloney couldn’t get a balance between being defensively solid and creating chances. Since we’ve tightened up at the back, Monty has had the same challenge.

Had a conversation with my mate during the Livi game about the bit in bold, that it's almost like we are playing like a simulator, ie if you pass along the back the opposition will press, this leaves gaps, exploit the gap, defender comes to cover, exploit the gap, score!
If one of those stages fails, reset and try again.

However one of the reasons the goal came about was that we tried something that wasn't scripted, Youan tried to go alone, got crowded out the ball ricochets to Boyle.

Saturday past was so frustrating watching them try to engineer the perfect opportunity, especially in the dying minutes. Get the ball in the box and see how they deal with it!

[J-C]

Again it's the transition between defence and attack, it's all become a bit predictable. Nullify our midfield and wide players and all we end up doing is the lump up the park in hope. We have Vente working his socks off for nowt, Boyle trying to beat a whole team then take shot that's never on. Jair beats a man, looks up ans sees everyone marked, so passes back and Youan just giving the Valley away continually, all very frustrating.

Personally I'd get Boyle back on the right, Jair left and Vente/Youan through the middle but then again I'd ve playing 4231 instead.

[Smartie]

Again it's the transition between defence and attack, it's all become a bit predictable. Nullify our midfield and wide players and all we end up doing is the lump up the park in hope. We have Vente working his socks off for nowt, Boyle trying to beat a whole team then take shot that's never on. Jair beats a man, looks up ans sees everyone marked, so passes back and Youan just giving the Valley away continually, all very frustrating.

Personally I'd get Boyle back on the right, Jair left and Vente/Youan through the middle but then again I'd ve playing 4231 instead.

This is often where Hibs teams succeed or fail tbh.

It's sometimes even as simple as Kevin McBride having a solid run of form being able to take the ball of the defence and get us moving forward but when he gets sussed by teams we end up being a shadow of a team.

Players like McGinn - it's very hard for any team to be able to do much against quality like that for us.

Newell will sometimes do it and tbf he's done it more consistently over the past couple of seasons but we've actually had problems turning the defence having the ball into something meaningful going forward since the McGinn / McGeouch / Allan midfield left and it's probably down to personnel more than it is about tactics.

[Weir07]

All this passing from keeper to the center halfs/fullbacks to start the attack feels like a fad or fashion that will be consigned to the bin when the next new thing comes out. Regardless, it was a dreadful watch under Maloney and that hasn't changed under Monty. Getting players in to play it is just fanciful thinking, the Martindales, Dochertys, Robinsons, will suss it out soon enough.

[B.H.F.C]

All this passing from keeper to the center halfs/fullbacks to start the attack feels like a fad or fashion that will be consigned to the bin when the next new thing comes out. Regardless, it was a dreadful watch under Maloney and that hasn't changed under Monty. Getting players in to play it is just fanciful thinking, the Martindales, Dochertys, Robinsons, will suss it out soon enough.

The three you mention have had 5 attempts combined and not managed to get a win against it. I don’t think we should be too fearful of them.

[Weir07]

The three you mention have had 5 attempts combined and not managed to get a win against it. I don’t think we should be too fearful of them.
It's a fair counter argument! 😁

[Winston Ingram]

The current team is relatively similar to the early 90s side

Leighton / Marshall (Ex Scotland goalies)

Miller / Miller (limited, no-nonsense right backs who will suffer the occasional suspension)
Mitchell / Stevenson (good servants, experienced pros, unspectacular, but who fit into middle SPFL standard relatively comfortably)
Hunter / Hanlon (great servants)
Tweed / Rocky (the guy you'd want going into a 50/50 but not always a comfy watch when on the ball)

McGinlay / Newell (some real moments of class & popular midfielders)
Hamilton / Levitt (the guy you can't understand what the hell the manager sees in him - always plays, but seeing his name on the teamsheet lifts the opposition)
MacAllister / Boyle (immensely popular right wingers, sometimes played out of position by the management)
O'Neill / Jair (tricky wingers and get you out your seat when on form)

Wright / Vente (at their best when working their socks off, and capable of finishing to a great standard)
Jackson / Youan - can be the difference, can frustrate, but there's a great player in there (in both cases)

Unfortunately football is nothing like it was in the 90’s. That team was playing against a 442 in 99% of games. This team will be lucky if it were to play against a 442 for 1% of it’s games.

[7Hero]

The Youan and Jair comparisons with Jackson and O'neill , if only The former were as good players as the latter.

not even close.. Especially O'neill. What. a player

[Since452]

The current team is relatively similar to the early 90s side

Leighton / Marshall (Ex Scotland goalies)

Miller / Miller (limited, no-nonsense right backs who will suffer the occasional suspension)
Mitchell / Stevenson (good servants, experienced pros, unspectacular, but who fit into middle SPFL standard relatively comfortably)
Hunter / Hanlon (great servants)
Tweed / Rocky (the guy you'd want going into a 50/50 but not always a comfy watch when on the ball)

McGinlay / Newell (some real moments of class & popular midfielders)
Hamilton / Levitt (the guy you can't understand what the hell the manager sees in him - always plays, but seeing his name on the teamsheet lifts the opposition)
MacAllister / Boyle (immensely popular right wingers, sometimes played out of position by the management)
O'Neill / Jair (tricky wingers and get you out your seat when on form)

Wright / Vente (at their best when working their socks off, and capable of finishing to a great standard)
Jackson / Youan - can be the difference, can frustrate, but there's a great player in there (in both cases)

Funnily enough I said on the match thread that this side reminds me of Alex Miller era at its worst.

[Unseen work]

The current team is relatively similar to the early 90s side

Leighton / Marshall (Ex Scotland goalies)

Miller / Miller (limited, no-nonsense right backs who will suffer the occasional suspension)
Mitchell / Stevenson (good servants, experienced pros, unspectacular, but who fit into middle SPFL standard relatively comfortably)
Hunter / Hanlon (great servants)
Tweed / Rocky (the guy you'd want going into a 50/50 but not always a comfy watch when on the ball)

McGinlay / Newell (some real moments of class & popular midfielders)
Hamilton / Levitt (the guy you can't understand what the hell the manager sees in him - always plays, but seeing his name on the teamsheet lifts the opposition)
MacAllister / Boyle (immensely popular right wingers, sometimes played out of position by the management)
O'Neill / Jair (tricky wingers and get you out your seat when on form)

Wright / Vente (at their best when working their socks off, and capable of finishing to a great standard)
Jackson / Youan - can be the difference, can frustrate, but there's a great player in there (in both cases)

That is an absolutely unbelievable take on Levitt.

Mental.

[WeeRussell]

That is an absolutely unbelievable take on Levitt.

Mental.

I concur. Poster clearly isn’t a fan going by many recent posts, which is fine, but that is very OTT.

[Smartie]

That is an absolutely unbelievable take on Levitt.

Mental.

Lennon's more like Chic Charnley from a few years later.

You'll get the odd silky moment but his midfield partner will need to carry him (to his eternal detriment) and you'd be able to drive a bus through the middle of midfield.

Some like the odd silky moment and for sure we'll have some good times together but ultimately the negatives outweigh the positives several times over.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Lennon's more like Chic Charnley from a few years later.

You'll get the odd silky moment but his midfield partner will need to carry him (to his eternal detriment) and you'd be able to drive a bus through the middle of midfield.

Some like the odd silky moment and for sure we'll have some good times together but ultimately the negatives outweigh the positives several times over.

Would generally agree. Theres been some massively over the top praise of Levitt on here. His time has been disappointing so far imo.

That being said, I’d suggest the post in question is equally as over the top in the other direction.

[superfurryhibby]

Would generally agree. Theres been some massively over the top praise of Levitt on here. His time has been disappointing so far imo.

That being said, I’d suggest the post in question is equally as over the top in the other direction.

He has disappointed overall. |There have been challenges with injury etc, but he's not been great.

The comparison with the Hibs team of mid 90's that another poster made. Sadly the majority of those players would walk into this side. I would only choose Boyle, Newell, Youan and Vente from the current squad to start with those guys.

Miller built some good sides an a low budget. The problem was that when he had to bring players in , it was guys nowhere near good enough (not naming names, we remember). Same as it always been.

[HoboHarry]

That is an absolutely unbelievable take on Levitt.

Mental.
IIRC it's the same poster who started the ******* Levitt thread a couple of weeks back then bolted. Not to be taken seriously methinks.

[JimBHibees]

That is an absolutely unbelievable take on Levitt.

Mental.

Totally agree probably the most genuinely talented player in the squad

[JammyDoidger]

He has disappointed overall. |There have been challenges with injury etc, but he's not been great.

The comparison with the Hibs team of mid 90's that another poster made. Sadly the majority of those players would walk into this side. I would only choose Boyle, Newell, Youan and Vente from the current squad to start with those guys.

Miller built some good sides an a low budget. The problem was that when he had to bring players in , it was guys nowhere near good enough (not naming names, we remember). Same as it always been.

I'm still to be sold on Vente like, if we didn't pay that amount for him I think a lot of folk would be less patient, think we are all hoping he starts scoring goals regularly for that amount that's what I expected.

[Mon Dieu4]

I'm still to be sold on Vente like, if we didn't pay that amount for him I think a lot of folk would be less patient, think we are all hoping he starts scoring goals regularly for that amount that's what I expected.

Is he going to magic all these goals for himself out of thin air? I'm struggling to think of even one clear cut chance he has been given that I've been disappointed he missed, we simply don't give him enough chances in the box, none of which is his fault

[Tambo]

We have struggled to break down teams in the past with different managers, with a lot of slow and ponderous play.

I'm not expecting us to go gung ho everygame but I would like to see more 1/2 touch football, get it out wide as quick as possible and make the opponent work, I have seen to many times where we make it easy for opposition.

[JammyDoidger]

Is he going to magic all these goals for himself out of thin air? I'm struggling to think of even one clear cut chance he has been given that I've been disappointed he missed, we simply don't give him enough chances in the box, none of which is his fault

Would still expect a player of his value to dig a few chances and goals out of his own doing, he looks like a poacher to me that's never in the box, I don't expect him to score many from outside the box yet that's where he spends the majority of his time.

[Since452]

I'm still to be sold on Vente like, if we didn't pay that amount for him I think a lot of folk would be less patient, think we are all hoping he starts scoring goals regularly for that amount that's what I expected.

Vente is a bit of a 6 yard box predator type. The period where LJ was sacked and Montgomery arrived, we were creating far more chances. Those chances have dried up dramatically now.

[JammyDoidger]

Vente is a bit of a 6 yard box predator type. The period where LJ was sacked and Montgomery arrived, we were creating far more chances. Those chances have dried up dramatically now.

So it's on Monty then, it's poor management the way he's playing him atm.

[Stubbsy90+2]

Is he going to magic all these goals for himself out of thin air? I'm struggling to think of even one clear cut chance he has been given that I've been disappointed he missed, we simply don't give him enough chances in the box, none of which is his fault

I’d be interested to see his xG, especially compared to guys like Miovski and Shankland who he should be sort of competing with in terms of output.

Like you, I can’t even think of all that many missed chances which is hugely concerning.

[Hibernian Verse]

I’d be interested to see his xG, especially compared to guys like Miovski and Shankland who he should be sort of competing with in terms of output.

Like you, I can’t even think of all that many missed chances which is hugely concerning.

Vente - 0.24 goals per 90 & 0.41 Goals & Assists per 90.

Miovski - 0.43 goals per 90 & 0.50 Goals & Assists per 90.

Shankland - 0.47 goals per 90 & 0.47 Goals & Assists per 90 (no assists all season)

[Stubbsy90+2]

Vente - 0.24 goals per 90 & 0.41 Goals & Assists per 90.

Miovski - 0.43 goals per 90 & 0.50 Goals & Assists per 90.

Shankland - 0.47 goals per 90 & 0.47 Goals & Assists per 90 (no assists all season)

Cheers. Not a huge surprise his xG is a lot lower at this point in time and his xG would suggest he’s not missing all that many chances. We need to be doing so much more to get him chances and get him in amongst the goals.

[Winston Ingram]

Vente - 0.24 goals per 90 & 0.41 Goals & Assists per 90.

Miovski - 0.43 goals per 90 & 0.50 Goals & Assists per 90.

Shankland - 0.47 goals per 90 & 0.47 Goals & Assists per 90 (no assists all season)

Tbf Shankland and Miovski get chances created for them.

[J-C]

Tbf Shankland and Miovski get chances created for them.

He's asking 2 creative attacking players in Jair and Youan to play as defensive wingers, so when we eventually lump it up the park, no one there. The ball needs played out quickly and accurately, we can be too slow and ponderous.

[basehibby]

The much maligned Johnson had us playing the ball forward a lot quicker than his predecessor, resulting in many chances created - often in excess of 20 per game. His style often saw full backs stranded up the pitch though and we leaked goals, so it wasn't all wine and roses but the football was usually entertaining.

Monty is trying a different approach and that's fine with me - zero shots on target vs St Johnstone is an abysmal statistic though, and the goal we conceded was an accident waiting to happen given the insistence on tippy tapping about in our own box at goal kicks.

He is intent on setting up 442 it seems. This has worked in some games but the players we have in the building right now look more comfortable in a 433 in my opinion and the insistence on 442 has lead to some square pegs in round holes and unconvincing performances at times.

I want the guy to succeed but fear he is making a rod for his own back through his inflexibility and lack of magnanimity re tactics.

[Winston Ingram]

He's asking 2 creative attacking players in Jair and Youan to play as defensive wingers, so when we eventually lump it up the park, no one there. The ball needs played out quickly and accurately, we can be too slow and ponderous.

Yep

[VoltaireHibs]

From everything I've heard and read about NM and Sergio I like them as people, they seem dedicated, intelligent men who have done well at CCM and have a very good idea of what they're doing. Where I have concerns is the league they're trying to do it in and on the budget they're trying to do it with.

The 4-4-2 system they're implementing requires a certain level of 'total football' skills from players throughout the team or it breaks down and leaves us open to things like the St Johnstone game. In the SPL there are a lot of teams that are happy to sit with a low, double block and basically say 'go on then, see if you can score', and they're happy to wait for a chance, which will always come, to see if they can snatch a win or a draw. We have a good forward line, but they aren't significantly better than those other non OF teams, so the whole thing can become an exercise in frustration.

I'm not convinced that even with the Black Knight money we can recruit the kind of players to play the way he wants, I suspect the best chance would be by doing what he did at CCM and bring youth players in who play without fear and have been drilled in the system through the age groups. If you look at Ange Postecoglu at Celtic, he had Jota, Kyogo, Maeda, McGregor etc to realise his style of play, and that is what it takes, very technically adept players who are comfortable playing one touch passing whilst going forward with every pass. I just feel we will never afford the types of players to do this successfully.

And the football recently hasn't been a great watch, a definite feeling of having got away with it a few times (the Aberdeen game especially). I like NM's single mindedness, to a degree, but, as I'm sure he understands, this is a results based entertainment business and if you don't get either then you're on a shoogly peg.

And that for me is the main problem, it's just not that entertaining. Football sells itself as a brand of entertainment these days, a match day experience, so it's the clubs themselves that has raised expectation levels for fans in some ways with their full on commercialisation of football. The fans then have every right to expect to be entertained, because that's the dream they're being sold. On a personal level I just want to see great football, I want to see a fun, happy Hibs team that win more than they lose and score plenty goals. I don't think we have a divine right to win, or be third, but as a fan I do think I have the right to expect to be entertained given the cost of tickets etc.

If NM isn't winning enough, and he's not got an entertaining team on the park, then his demise will come about naturally.

Having said all that, I'm fully behind giving him a couple of transfer windows to see what can happen. I also think the best signing we have made in the last couple of years is Brian McDermott, a guy I instinctively trust to bring in more good un's than bad un's, so either way we have a better squad in a year or two's time.

[Broken Gnome]

.

[sauzeelegod]

From everything I've heard and read about NM and Sergio I like them as people, they seem dedicated, intelligent men who have done well at CCM and have a very good idea of what they're doing. Where I have concerns is the league they're trying to do it in and on the budget they're trying to do it with.

The 4-4-2 system they're implementing requires a certain level of 'total football' skills from players throughout the team or it breaks down and leaves us open to things like the St Johnstone game. In the SPL there are a lot of teams that are happy to sit with a low, double block and basically say 'go on then, see if you can score', and they're happy to wait for a chance, which will always come, to see if they can snatch a win or a draw. We have a good forward line, but they aren't significantly better than those other non OF teams, so the whole thing can become an exercise in frustration.

I'm not convinced that even with the Black Knight money we can recruit the kind of players to play the way he wants, I suspect the best chance would be by doing what he did at CCM and bring youth players in who play without fear and have been drilled in the system through the age groups. If you look at Ange Postecoglu at Celtic, he had Jota, Kyogo, Maeda, McGregor etc to realise his style of play, and that is what it takes, very technically adept players who are comfortable playing one touch passing whilst going forward with every pass. I just feel we will never afford the types of players to do this successfully.

And the football recently hasn't been a great watch, a definite feeling of having got away with it a few times (the Aberdeen game especially). I like NM's single mindedness, to a degree, but, as I'm sure he understands, this is a results based entertainment business and if you don't get either then you're on a shoogly peg.

And that for me is the main problem, it's just not that entertaining. Football sells itself as a brand of entertainment these days, a match day experience, so it's the clubs themselves that has raised expectation levels for fans in some ways with their full on commercialisation of football. The fans then have every right to expect to be entertained, because that's the dream they're being sold. On a personal level I just want to see great football, I want to see a fun, happy Hibs team that win more than they lose and score plenty goals. I don't think we have a divine right to win, or be third, but as a fan I do think I have the right to expect to be entertained given the cost of tickets etc.

If NM isn't winning enough, and he's not got an entertaining team on the park, then his demise will come about naturally.

Having said all that, I'm fully behind giving him a couple of transfer windows to see what can happen. I also think the best signing we have made in the last couple of years is Brian McDermott, a guy I instinctively trust to bring in more good un's than bad un's, so either way we have a better squad in a year or two's time.

Great post mate 🙌🏼

[eastmainsmsh]

We need a midfielder who can prop up with a goal

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Pr%C3%B6pper

[VoltaireHibs]

TBH, the fact that we are all constantly talking about the managers tactics probably tells you they aren't working.

[VoltaireHibs]

Great post mate 🙌🏼

Cheers!

[Wilson]

TBH, the fact that we are all constantly talking about the managers tactics probably tells you they aren't working.

Yeah. There's that.

Also, in the early days he was getting praise for getting more out of the squad than Lee Johnson could. A few weeks later the players aren't good enough and he needs a couple of transfer windows.

It may work out for Monty but right now the honeymoon is definitely over.

[Ozyhibby]

One thing is clear now, Montgomery has not improved us. It’s debatable whether we have got worse.
Only thing saving him is he hasn’t had a transfer window. He has 4 weeks to save his job now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Since452]

One thing is clear now, Montgomery has not improved us. It’s debatable whether we have got worse.
Only thing saving him is he hasn’t had a transfer window. He has 4 weeks to save his job now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes he has. He's just finished saying he's turned us around and resurrected careers!

[WeeRussell]

Yes he has. He's just finished saying he's turned us around and resurrected careers!

Got a link to this post-match interview? No seen/heard anything yet.

[SaulGoodman]

***** again

[GreenGray]

Pretty clear we don’t have the players to play the way he wants to. All feels a bit like Maloney all over again, which is worrying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Winston Ingram]

One thing is clear now, Montgomery has not improved us. It’s debatable whether we have got worse.
Only thing saving him is he hasn’t had a transfer window. He has 4 weeks to save his job now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would you give him any money based on what he's shown so far? He's got a squad full of proven SPFL players and we're 10 points behind an awful Hearts side.

He's no changing the way he's playing.

[Winston Ingram]

Pretty clear we don’t have the players to play the way he wants to. All feels a bit like Maloney all over again, which is worrying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any decent manager would look at the squad that he has and play a formation that suits that.

[The Captain....]

I really don't see what we're trying to do. We don't seem to compete for crosses in either box and are far too easy to play against. That second half was amateur..a complete lack of application.



Sent from my SM-S906B using Tapatalk

[Since452]

Got a link to this post-match interview? No seen/heard anything yet.

Wasn't post Match.

https://x.com/edinburghsport/status/1741772297763951005?s=20

[JammyDoidger]

Got a link to this post-match interview? No seen/heard anything yet.

It'll be the usual, couldn't ask for any more. Players need a rocket.

[B.H.F.C]

Loads of talk about us being pish going forward.

Yet another occasion where we’ve scored two goals and failed to win. That’s seven times it’s happened in the league. We simply can’t defend. Long pint from the goalie against Hearts, a throw in for there first today then a free kick for their second. Nothing tactical in that

[ScottB]

Pretty clear we don’t have the players to play the way he wants to. All feels a bit like Maloney all over again, which is worrying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s the same in that bringing a guy in mid season with a mandate to play a different game is kneecapping them before they’ve even begun.

If NM had been appointed in June, had a pre season and a transfer window, you’d hope things would be going better. Dropping him in when we did and letting / encouraging him to switch to a 442 the squad isn’t built for or been training for is a bit daft really.

That’s on the club and on NM though. It’s not an unreasonable expectation, at any level, but certainly at ours, that a manager come up with an approach to get the best they can out of the players they’ve got, until such times as the squad is up to something else. Could easily take us 2, 3 or more transfer windows to build up a squad suited to this new approach, assuming Montgomery lasts that long, then what? We need to hire another couch who wants to play this way, or start the whole thing over?

Poor planning, poor decision making.

[Heisenberg]

Loads of talk about us being pish going forward.

Yet another occasion where we’ve scored two goals and failed to win. That’s seven times it’s happened in the league. We simply can’t defend. Long pint from the goalie against Hearts, a throw in for there first today then a free kick for their second. Nothing tactical in that

It’s clearly our main issue. Amount of goals we’ve conceded is mental.

[The Modfather]

Pretty clear we don’t have the players to play the way he wants to. All feels a bit like Maloney all over again, which is worrying.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maloney, a manager with a clear plan but not given the time or tools to implement. Sacked.

Johnson, played a formation that matches the players we have. Sacked.

Montgomery, a manager with a clear plan but in danger of not being given the time or tools to implement.

The players, ever present.

[Winston Ingram]

Got a link to this post-match interview? No seen/heard anything yet.

I’m half expecting him to remove his Nick Montgomery mask and reveal that he is in fact Ian Cathro.

[Hibs90]

He can only work with what he has at his disposal.

This squad overall is poor.

We should be looking higher up the chain.

[The Captain....]

11 points behind a ***** Hearts team. We are ****ing garbage and getting worse.

Sent from my SM-S906B using Tapatalk

[B.H.F.C]

He can only work with what he has at his disposal.

This squad overall is poor.

We should be looking higher up the chain.

I can’t believe folk think it’s a good squad. Look at the players available today. Look at the bench most weeks.

[GreenCastle]

You would think Hibs when they interviewed him knew he was going to play 4-4-2 with players who weren’t recruited to play 4-4-2.

It surely can’t be any surprise - plus missing players - poor planning if so and again our own worst enemy.

We needed a simple stable manager after the last 2 - instead it feels like another experiment.

[Winston Ingram]

Maloney, a manager with a clear plan but not given the time or tools to implement. Sacked.

Johnson, played a formation that matches the players we have. Sacked.

Montgomery, a manager with a clear plan but in danger of not being given the time or tools to implement.

The players, ever present.

Clear plan? He's got a clear formation. There's no clear plan behind it. If you're claiming to understand what it is then you're very much in the minority which makes it the very opposite of clear. What is clear is that it's not working and we're getting worse.

[The Modfather]

Clear plan? He's got a clear formation. There's no clear plan behind it. If you're claiming to understand what it is then you're very much in the minority which makes it the very opposite of clear. What is clear is that it's not working and we're getting worse.

I think folk see different things. You look at our squad and see it as one that is quality and would walk into most teams in the league outside of the Old Firm, Hearts & Aberdeen. I see the squad as one that is in the process of trying to get its 4th manager sacked in less than 3 seasons.

[B.H.F.C]

I think folk see different things. You look at our squad and see it as one that is quality and would walk into most teams in the league outside of the Old Firm, Hearts & Aberdeen. I see the squad as one that is in the process of trying to get its 4th manager sacked in less than 3 seasons.

Cannae be right. We played 433 loads of that time and that’s all we need to do.

[WhileTheChief..]

I can’t believe folk think it’s a good squad. Look at the players available today. Look at the bench most weeks.

The bench is full of kids most weeks.

Does he think they’re good enough or does he feel he’s got to give them game time?

If he doesn’t sign players that are ready to hit the first team running, he shouldn’t bother. No more signing development players or 34+ year olds that are injured.

Whoever we sign needs to be available for our next game. No time to settle or get a costumed to the league, or climate, or language, or any other damn excuse.

[Ozyhibby]

Yes he has. He's just finished saying he's turned us around and resurrected careers!

The benefit in rehabilitating Jair is more than cancelled out by the way he is wasting Vente.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[B.H.F.C]

The bench is full of kids most weeks.

Does he think they’re good enough or does he feel he’s got to give them game time?

If he doesn’t sign players that are ready to hit the first team running, he shouldn’t bother. No more signing development players or 34+ year olds that are injured.

Whoever we sign needs to be available for our next game. No time to settle or get a costumed to the league, or climate, or language, or any other damn excuse.

Absolutely agree. If he doesn’t get some better players in, he’ll go the same way as those before him.

[Winston Ingram]

I think folk see different things. You look at our squad and see it as one that is quality and would walk into most teams in the league outside of the Old Firm, Hearts & Aberdeen. I see the squad as one that is in the process of trying to get its 4th manager sacked in less than 3 seasons.

Whether the squad is good or bad, you’re saying you see a clear plan. You’re very much in the minority, therefore far from clear, or everyone would get it.

[Winston Ingram]

The benefit in rehabilitating Jair is more than cancelled out by the way he is wasting Vente.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

…and Boyle

[GreenGray]

The benefit in rehabilitating Jair is more than cancelled out by the way he is wasting Vente.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, credit has to be given for the way he has improved Jair.

But I think more needs to be spoken about how some players (arguably our most important ones) have regressed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

The benefit in rehabilitating Jair is more than cancelled out by the way he is wasting Vente.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkJust said more or less the same thing, only Hibs can splash out on what seemed to be a quality striker and have tactics that reduce the guy to running about chasing the ball in an attempt to create the type of service he himself needs.

Credit to him for trying but theres a lot the latest manager is trying to do that doesn't add up, he's due a window but the resource that is vente has always been there.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk