Penalty to Sevco shock

[zero-seven]

Getting totally farcical now, should be odds on each game.

WTF is going on here, some lodge conspiracy? They haven’t conceded any yet, it is hilarious their refs think we can’t see through the funny handshake for the sons of William? Joke football integrity

[LaMotta]

Its the same pen today that St Mirren got v us. It is a penalty. The problem is there are countless other pens getting ignored on a weekly basis. Both us and Hearts yesterday for eg.

[aljo7-0]

I saw a chart for penalties awarded in league games this season. Including this weekend it is now Celtic 7, Rangers 5, Hibs 1 and Hearts 0
I was amazed that Hearts had not had any and surprised Celtic had had more than Rangers but not surprised at the city totals.
That's 12 to Glasgow and 1 to Edinburgh.
Thank f there is no West Coast bias.

[jakedance]

He pulled his shirt. It’s the type of decision that Rangers will always get. There is loads to say about the state of refereeing in this country but how stupid do you need to be to be pulling a hun’s shirt in the box?

[hibstag]

I saw a chart for penalties awarded in league games this season. Including this weekend it is now Celtic 7, Rangers 5, Hibs 1 and Hearts 0
I was amazed that Hearts had not had any and surprised Celtic had had more than Rangers but not surprised at the city totals.
That's 12 to Glasgow and 1 to Edinburgh.
Thank f there is no West Coast bias.

Im assuming that the var ref responded to goldson rolling around in the box to initiate a review and pulled it up unlike like countless other players in unchecked incidents across the league . viewing it looked it like a run of the mill defensive tussle and poor front post corner to me. it's the fact that this specific set piece was then reviewed seems to ignore the block on the defender and tell the ref you've missed something here that's main issue, If it's a clear and obvious error for one team its a clear and obvious error for all

[Pagan Hibernia]

I saw a chart for penalties awarded in league games this season. Including this weekend it is now Celtic 7, Rangers 5, Hibs 1 and Hearts 0
I was amazed that Hearts had not had any and surprised Celtic had had more than Rangers but not surprised at the city totals.
That's 12 to Glasgow and 1 to Edinburgh.
Thank f there is no West Coast bias.


There is an argument that the glasgow teams inevitably do spend more time in the opposition box than anyone else so i'd be very surprised if they didn't get more pens than other teams statistically.

However it should not be by that much and the pens denied to both edinburgh teams yesterday (and on other occasions) shows there is something badly amiss

[LewysGot2]

Selfishly I’m not going to worry too much about Aberdeen not winning today.

It was similar to the pen St Mirren got against us. If it’s going to be penalised then consistency is key. There will be dozens of pens every week :rolleyes::wink:

[wookie70]

There was a meme saying The Rangers are the only team that has not conceded a league penalty in any country since VAR came in. No idea if it is true but it wouldn't surprise me. Also the "remarkable" run they are on just now in not conceding penalties isn't that remarkable as they have done similar before.

[007]

https://x.com/GovernWilliam/status/1724497980663734369?s=20

[Spike Mandela]

He pulled his shirt. It’s the type of decision that Rangers will always get. There is loads to say about the state of refereeing in this country but how stupid do you need to be to be pulling a hun’s shirt in the box?

Yes but it took the VAR referee, Rangers supporting Andrew Dallas, to flag it up. Not convinced he would have flagged it up for any other club. We need to start mikeing up officials and hearing their deliberations

[greenlex]

Yes but it took the VAR referee, Rangers supporting Andrew Dallas, to flag it up. Not convinced he would have flagged it up for any other club. We need to start mikeing up officials and hearing their deliberations

We absolutely do. This must happen or take the whole thing away. It’s a cheats charter otherwise.

[jakedance]

Yes but it took the VAR referee, Rangers supporting Andrew Dallas, to flag it up. Not convinced he would have flagged it up for any other club. We need to start mikeing up officials and hearing their deliberations

I agree with you 100%. My point is players should be smart enough not to pull a Rangers player’s shirt in the box because we all know what happens when they do.

[Jim44]

Referees have, for the most part, made shirt pulling at corners, a ‘blind eye’ situation. Fine, if it’s a level playing field. However, if it suits the referee’s H*n agenda, it will be pounced on.

[He's here!]

I saw a chart for penalties awarded in league games this season. Including this weekend it is now Celtic 7, Rangers 5, Hibs 1 and Hearts 0
I was amazed that Hearts had not had any and surprised Celtic had had more than Rangers but not surprised at the city totals.
That's 12 to Glasgow and 1 to Edinburgh.
Thank f there is no West Coast bias.

Without denying the odds are stacked in the big two's favour, they do more often than not create significantly more goalscoring chances per game than the rest so that will account for at least some of the 'extra' penalties they're perceived to earn.

How many of the penalties they've been awarded have been in any way dubious?

[JimBHibees]

Referees have, for the most part, made shirt pulling at corners, a ‘blind eye’ situation. Fine, if it’s a level playing field. However, if it suits the referee’s H*n agenda, it will be pounced on.

Someone had a picture of a Dundee player clearly pulling Hanlons shirt at ER earlier in the season guess what nothing happened.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Without denying the odds are stacked in the big two's favour, they do more often than not create significantly more goalscoring chances per game than the rest so that will account for at least some of the 'extra' penalties they're perceived to earn.

How many of the penalties they've been awarded have been in any way dubious?

Some are dubious, many aren't. I don't think many people are arguing that all pens they get are illegitimate. The argument is that they get every penalty that it's possible to give them, while every other team clearly doesn't

[Trinity Hibee]

James Tavernier has now scored 12 penalties…

…against Aberdeen.
Just Aberdeen. 😀

Henrik Larsson scored 14 penalties in Scottish football.

[Northernhibee]

When was the last time The The's conceded a penalty kick in the league?

[PHeffernan]

I saw a chart for penalties awarded in league games this season. Including this weekend it is now Celtic 7, Rangers 5, Hibs 1 and Hearts 0
I was amazed that Hearts had not had any and surprised Celtic had had more than Rangers but not surprised at the city totals.
That's 12 to Glasgow and 1 to Edinburgh.
Thank f there is no West Coast bias.

I believe it's 8 penalties in league games to Celtic this season and 7 to Rangers.
They do tend to have a high percentage of the attacking play in a game so it makes sense.
Hibs centre forward Vente has only had circa 10 shots in 13 league games this season. That tells you how few chances we are making so we are naturally not getting many penalties either.

[The Harp Awakes]

When was the last time The The's conceded a penalty kick in the league?

Haven't conceded a pen in 67 league games I think. A bigger stat is 1 in 113 league games.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Haven't conceded a pen in 67 league games I think. A bigger stat is 1 in 113 league games.

Ripping the pish out of the game.

[wookie70]

When was the last time The The's conceded a penalty kick in the league? Not sure but John Greig committed the foul

[Pretty Boy]

Rangers have had a penalty in 5 of their last 6 games, the only game they weren't awarded a penalty was in Europe.

Tavernier has scored 13 goals against Aberdeen, 11 of them penalties. Aberdeen haven't had a penalty at Ibrox since 1996.

The issue isn't the penalty they got today (although I'm sceptical anyone else, perhaps Celtic excepted, gets that). The issue is the pattern, every single penalty it's possible for them to get, they get it. There is shirt pulling and niggling at every set piece in the game, if you want to find an incident to award a penalty then you'll find it. VAR has made a bad situation in Scotland even worse.

[He's here!]

Did Hearts not get awarded the most penalties of any side in the league last season?

[neil7908]

Haven't conceded a pen in 67 league games I think. A bigger stat is 1 in 113 league games.

How can anyone honestly read that and not think it's corrupt? They will now be on 68 I think. I read Barca have the record for the longest (74 games). But that was during the time they are being investigated for paying refs...

[matty_f]

I'm convinced it's corruption and not incompetence. Incompetence world see a spread of these decisions.

I think you could as easily argue that it's not a penalty as argue it is, there's some debate about whether the ball is in play when the pull occurred. What's undeniable though, is Goldson dived as well.

But even if you accept without argument that the penalty is the correct decision, the issue is that Rangers ALWAYS get them.

Both Hibs and Hearts had clear penalties at the weekend, neither were reviewed. Had they been at Ibrox for the home team, we all know what would have happened. The stats back it up.

I can't believe I'm going to give him credit here, but Naismith said after the semi final that when they got their penalty after VAR intervened and the referee rescinded the red card given to the Hearts player for diving, that the referee's instinct was to favour Rangers.

He could as easily have awarded the penalty and let VAR sort it if it was a dive but never in a million years is a ref taking that option in Scotland against Rangers.

We've had a number of penalty claims all as legitimate as Goldson's over the last few games, and we got nothing.

And when VAR does intervene for penalties, it's to give them against us. Joe Newell conceded one St Mirren at the start of the season - very similar contact to the foul on Miller on Saturday. VAR intervened, St Mirren got the penalty.
Again, St Mirren got a VAR call much like Rangers' when we played them recently, when despite several other infringements at the corner, they pick out a shirt pull and give the penalty.

Have we not had any players with their shirts held at corners this season?

It's a ****ing nonsense. I'll not believe that it's not cheating, all the evidence points to it.

[Brooster]

⚽️- Rangers are currently on a British record run of 67 games without conceding a penalty

⚽️- the world top flight record is 74 held by Barcelona in the 2011/12 - 2012/13 seasons (which is currently under investigation by Spanish FA)

⚽️-**Barca averaged 80% possession during that time (Rangers averaged 58% during their run)

⚽️ - before the current 67 game run, Rangers went 44 league games without conceding a penalty

⚽️ - so they have only conceded 1 penalty in their last 112 league games

⚽️- Since August 2020 they have the highest penalty differential in Europe’s top 20 leagues, ie pens for minus pens against.

⚽️ - Since the 20/21 season they have conceded a penalty on average every 42 league games (Celtic every 9 games)

⚽️- from 2018/19 season they have a penalty differential of +43 ( Celtic are +15 for the same period)

⚽️ - since 2018/19 Rangers have been awarded 52 penalties and conceded 9 (Celtic have had**39 and conceded 24)

⚽️ - Since last season (when VAR arrived in Scotland) Rangers have had 16 penalties in the league with 0 against (Celtic have had 12 with 7 against)

⚽️ - They are only team in a league with VAR that has never conceded a penalty since the technology was brought in anywhere in the world

⚽️ - If Rangers don’t concede a league penalty before the end of this year (8 games) then they will have set a new world record

⚽️ -**James Tavernier is now in the top 10 for the most penalties scored of all time

⚽️ - out of everyone on the list the Rangers captain has the highest percentage of goals from penalties

Top 10 penalty takers and % of goals that are penalties (via TransferMrkt)

C. Ronaldo 157 (18%)

Messi 109 (14%)

Totti 86 (27%)

Ibrahimovic 85 (15%)

Del Piero 77 (22%)

Shearer 72 (18%)

Ronaldinho 70 (30%)

Cavani**61 (14%)

Lampard 60 (20%)

Tavernier 58 (48%)

[Dr What If?]

If a ref gets it wrong (or perceived to be wrong) against Rangers then they get pelters in the press. Remember our 2-2 game from last year? Rocky pulled down in the box, no pen and press didn't care because it was perceived as 50:50. *** goes down after the slightest touch from Rocky (not even a shirt pull) and pen, press don't care because there was contact.
In the second half Rangers get two players sent off and that makes the papers, particularly the Lundstram one. It was a nasty tackle but the story of the week was it should have been a yellow, refs integrity questioned on tv, papers question competence.....a decision against Rangers can have career implications. If that happens to any other team then its forgotten before the Saturday has even passed.
Refs and officials know that, there is a fear about not giving Rangers decisions......effectively fear means that the rest of us are held to a higher standard and yes, VAR has amplified the problem......if those 11 Rangers players were playing in any other strip then Aberdeen win 1-0.
Rangers might not be paying the refs wages but they do have the power to negatively effect their careers. I don't think its corruption or incompetence, but it is a serious problem for the game in Scotland.

[007]

Someone had a picture of a Dundee player clearly pulling Hanlons shirt at ER earlier in the season guess what nothing happened.

It was me.

https://i.ibb.co/SP68BRx/Screenshot-20231111-212321-Gallery.jpg (https://ibb.co/bP6ZXz3)

[matty_f]

If a ref gets it wrong (or perceived to be wrong) against Rangers then they get pelters in the press. Remember our 2-2 game from last year? Rocky pulled down in the box, no pen and press didn't care because it was perceived as 50:50. *** goes down after the slightest touch from Rocky (not even a shirt pull) and pen, press don't care because there was contact.
In the second half Rangers get two players sent off and that makes the papers, particularly the Lundstram one. It was a nasty tackle but the story of the week was it should have been a yellow, refs integrity questioned on tv, papers question competence.....a decision against Rangers can have career implications. If that happens to any other team then its forgotten before the Saturday has even passed.
Refs and officials know that, there is a fear about not giving Rangers decisions......effectively fear means that the rest of us are held to a higher standard and yes, VAR has amplified the problem......if those 11 Rangers players were playing in any other strip then Aberdeen win 1-0.
Rangers might not be paying the refs wages but they do have the power to negatively effect their careers. I don't think its corruption or incompetence, but it is a serious problem for the game in Scotland.

That is corruption, it might not be money in a brown envelope that is the post off, but where you've got a referee making easy decisions instead of correct ones by choice, then it's corrupt.

You're absolutely spot on with your post, though - that's a huge factor in why they referee them the way that they do.

[poolman]

It was me.

https://i.ibb.co/SP68BRx/Screenshot-20231111-212321-Gallery.jpg (https://ibb.co/bP6ZXz3)


One rule for some and another rule for others

[PHeffernan]

That is corruption, it might not be money in a brown envelope that is the post off, but where you've got a referee making easy decisions instead of correct ones by choice, then it's corrupt.

You're absolutely spot on with your post, though - that's a huge factor in why they referee them the way that they do.

To be corrupt there would have to be a willingness by referees to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
There has always been a whole load of babbling on supporters forums of all clubs about corrupt referees but with zero credible evidence or proof.
So many decisions made by referees are on objective matters. Ask 100 different people about todays penalty decision for Rangers and you will get a raft of different opinions. There is no "correct" answer.
We can have an opinion on someones ability to do a job but it's insulting to question their integrity with again absolutely zero credible evidence or proof.

[Danderhall Hibs]

To be corrupt there would have to be a willingness by referees to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
There has always been a whole load of babbling on supporters forums of all clubs about corrupt referees but with zero credible evidence or proof.
So many decisions made by referees are on objective matters. Ask 100 different people about todays penalty decision for Rangers and you will get a raft of different opinions. There is no "correct" answer.
We can have an opinion on someones ability to do a job but it's insulting to question their integrity with again absolutely zero credible evidence or proof.

The personal gain is they continue to get the big games and coin it in, their windows don’t get tanned and their family don’t get death threats.

[Danderhall Hibs]

⚽️- Rangers are currently on a British record run of 67 games without conceding a penalty

⚽️- the world top flight record is 74 held by Barcelona in the 2011/12 - 2012/13 seasons (which is currently under investigation by Spanish FA)

⚽️-**Barca averaged 80% possession during that time (Rangers averaged 58% during their run)

⚽️ - before the current 67 game run, Rangers went 44 league games without conceding a penalty

⚽️ - so they have only conceded 1 penalty in their last 112 league games

⚽️- Since August 2020 they have the highest penalty differential in Europe’s top 20 leagues, ie pens for minus pens against.

⚽️ - Since the 20/21 season they have conceded a penalty on average every 42 league games (Celtic every 9 games)

⚽️- from 2018/19 season they have a penalty differential of +43 ( Celtic are +15 for the same period)

⚽️ - since 2018/19 Rangers have been awarded 52 penalties and conceded 9 (Celtic have had**39 and conceded 24)

⚽️ - Since last season (when VAR arrived in Scotland) Rangers have had 16 penalties in the league with 0 against (Celtic have had 12 with 7 against)

⚽️ - They are only team in a league with VAR that has never conceded a penalty since the technology was brought in anywhere in the world

⚽️ - If Rangers don’t concede a league penalty before the end of this year (8 games) then they will have set a new world record

⚽️ -**James Tavernier is now in the top 10 for the most penalties scored of all time

⚽️ - out of everyone on the list the Rangers captain has the highest percentage of goals from penalties

Top 10 penalty takers and % of goals that are penalties (via TransferMrkt)

C. Ronaldo 157 (18%)

Messi 109 (14%)

Totti 86 (27%)

Ibrahimovic 85 (15%)

Del Piero 77 (22%)

Shearer 72 (18%)

Ronaldinho 70 (30%)

Cavani**61 (14%)

Lampard 60 (20%)

Tavernier 58 (48%)

This is amazing. The list at the end is the best bit 😂

[HarpOnHibee]

To be corrupt there would have to be a willingness by referees to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
There has always been a whole load of babbling on supporters forums of all clubs about corrupt referees but with zero credible evidence or proof.
So many decisions made by referees are on objective matters. Ask 100 different people about todays penalty decision for Rangers and you will get a raft of different opinions. There is no "correct" answer.
We can have an opinion on someones ability to do a job but it's insulting to question their integrity with again absolutely zero credible evidence or proof.

If so many decisions are objective, then you'd think they'd balance themselves out over a season or several seasons. Problem is, they don't. Over several seasons, Rangers can get 60+ penalties while having none given against them. Many of those penalties are "objective" awards that are simply not given at the other end. 50/50 decisions for Rangers become 100/0 and 50/50 decisions at the opposite end become 0/100.

The proof is in the statistics.

[Dashing Bob S]

⚽️- Rangers are currently on a British record run of 67 games without conceding a penalty

⚽️- the world top flight record is 74 held by Barcelona in the 2011/12 - 2012/13 seasons (which is currently under investigation by Spanish FA)

⚽️-**Barca averaged 80% possession during that time (Rangers averaged 58% during their run)

⚽️ - before the current 67 game run, Rangers went 44 league games without conceding a penalty

⚽️ - so they have only conceded 1 penalty in their last 112 league games

⚽️- Since August 2020 they have the highest penalty differential in Europe’s top 20 leagues, ie pens for minus pens against.

⚽️ - Since the 20/21 season they have conceded a penalty on average every 42 league games (Celtic every 9 games)

⚽️- from 2018/19 season they have a penalty differential of +43 ( Celtic are +15 for the same period)

⚽️ - since 2018/19 Rangers have been awarded 52 penalties and conceded 9 (Celtic have had**39 and conceded 24)

⚽️ - Since last season (when VAR arrived in Scotland) Rangers have had 16 penalties in the league with 0 against (Celtic have had 12 with 7 against)

⚽️ - They are only team in a league with VAR that has never conceded a penalty since the technology was brought in anywhere in the world

⚽️ - If Rangers don’t concede a league penalty before the end of this year (8 games) then they will have set a new world record

⚽️ -**James Tavernier is now in the top 10 for the most penalties scored of all time

⚽️ - out of everyone on the list the Rangers captain has the highest percentage of goals from penalties

Top 10 penalty takers and % of goals that are penalties (via TransferMrkt)

C. Ronaldo 157 (18%)

Messi 109 (14%)

Totti 86 (27%)

Ibrahimovic 85 (15%)

Del Piero 77 (22%)

Shearer 72 (18%)

Ronaldinho 70 (30%)

Cavani**61 (14%)

Lampard 60 (20%)

Tavernier 58 (48%)

Despite this Tavernier will always remain a firm favourite of mine for allowing himself to bitch-slapped all over Hampden by Tony Stokes for 94 mins in May 2016.

[LeithMike]

The stats do raise some significant questions for which there is no obvious answer, other than bias.

I really dislike VAR in any case. The rules of football don’t mesh with VAR. Referees used to be able to use common sense and overlook fouls which were not going to affect the play. Now they can’t and you can get a penalty for a shirt pull where a player has no chance of getting the ball.

That’s not right for me. It’s making a nonsense of the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Since90+2]

The cynic in me thinks as it's now blatantly obvious the bias is there they'll drop in a penalty against Rangers shortly. Probably controversial and only if they are 3 or 4 goals up at the time .

[worcesterhibby]

The cynic in me thinks as it's now blatantly obvious the bias is there they'll drop in a penalty against Rangers shortly. Probably controversial and only if they are 3 or 4 goals up at the time

.

This is absolutely spot on, i will be putting money on Ranngers winning but conceding a penalty in forthcoming games. Dead cert.

[Brizo]

The personal gain is they continue to get the big games and coin it in, their windows don’t get tanned and their family don’t get death threats.


You've hit the nail on the head. That's 100% the reason. The bit Ive highlighted is also the reason why politicians, the media etc hardly ever call them out on their fans behaviour

[matty_f]

The personal gain is they continue to get the big games and coin it in, their windows don’t get tanned and their family don’t get death threats.

:agree:

VAR missed this in the same game yesterday : https://x.com/dons_report/status/1728873629839233029?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A


There’s a point when you have to believe what your eyes and the stats are telling you. This isn’t consistently accidental.

[Keith_M]

"Certain referees were chosen for crucial matches with predictable results. Much of the footage makes it hilariously clear that some games were effectively show trials – manipulated by officialdom until the “correct” outcome was arrived at."

Stasi FC. (https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2023/nov/26/stasi-fc-review-the-astonishing-tale-of-the-secret-polices-football-team)


Sound familiar?

:hmmm:

[Kato]

To be corrupt there would have to be a willingness by referees to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
There has always been a whole load of babbling on supporters forums of all clubs about corrupt referees but with zero credible evidence or proof.
So many decisions made by referees are on objective matters. Ask 100 different people about todays penalty decision for Rangers and you will get a raft of different opinions. There is no "correct" answer.
We can have an opinion on someones ability to do a job but it's insulting to question their integrity with again absolutely zero credible evidence or proof.That's all well and good but doesn't explain the uncanny spread of decisions given while others aren't.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

⚽️- Rangers are currently on a British record run of 67 games without conceding a penalty

⚽️- the world top flight record is 74 held by Barcelona in the 2011/12 - 2012/13 seasons (which is currently under investigation by Spanish FA)

⚽️-**Barca averaged 80% possession during that time (Rangers averaged 58% during their run)

⚽️ - before the current 67 game run, Rangers went 44 league games without conceding a penalty

⚽️ - so they have only conceded 1 penalty in their last 112 league games

⚽️- Since August 2020 they have the highest penalty differential in Europe’s top 20 leagues, ie pens for minus pens against.

⚽️ - Since the 20/21 season they have conceded a penalty on average every 42 league games (Celtic every 9 games)

⚽️- from 2018/19 season they have a penalty differential of +43 ( Celtic are +15 for the same period)

⚽️ - since 2018/19 Rangers have been awarded 52 penalties and conceded 9 (Celtic have had**39 and conceded 24)

⚽️ - Since last season (when VAR arrived in Scotland) Rangers have had 16 penalties in the league with 0 against (Celtic have had 12 with 7 against)

⚽️ - They are only team in a league with VAR that has never conceded a penalty since the technology was brought in anywhere in the world

⚽️ - If Rangers don’t concede a league penalty before the end of this year (8 games) then they will have set a new world record

⚽️ -**James Tavernier is now in the top 10 for the most penalties scored of all time

⚽️ - out of everyone on the list the Rangers captain has the highest percentage of goals from penalties

Top 10 penalty takers and % of goals that are penalties (via TransferMrkt)

C. Ronaldo 157 (18%)

Messi 109 (14%)

Totti 86 (27%)

Ibrahimovic 85 (15%)

Del Piero 77 (22%)

Shearer 72 (18%)

Ronaldinho 70 (30%)

Cavani**61 (14%)

Lampard 60 (20%)

Tavernier 58 (48%)

Purely on the list at the end, you'd expect Tavernier's percentage pens to be significantly higher than the others because he plays significantly further back. Going back in time to when dinosaurs roamed ER, our very own Joe Davis would have been in the high 90%s.

[Rumble de Thump]

Everyone knows Scottish football is corrupt. Rangers went bust. They ceased to exist. But 11 years later we're talking about how many dodgy decisions the referees still make in their favour. The whole thing is dodgy.

[wookie70]

Purely on the list at the end, you'd expect Tavernier's percentage pens to be significantly higher than the others because he plays significantly further back. Going back in time to when dinosaurs roamed ER, our very own Joe Davis would have been in the high 90%s.

Where he plays has no bearing on that. He is the penalty taker so it is the amount of penalties his team gets that matters. I don't think it is unreasonable for The Rangers or Celtc to get more penalties and concede less due to them being on the attack more. I would however fully expect the stats to favour Celtc over the last 5 seasons as bar one year they have been the best side.

Single decisions in games don't really tell us much it is when hundreds of games are shown to provide anomalies the evidence stacks up. Even with yesterdays game the Cantwell dive was ridiculous and I would imagine most teams would get a booking, the Goldson elbow was again obvious and most teams would see red and the penalty was a tug with the ball in play so easy to see why it was given but there was a foul by The Rangers before it so arguably that should have been awarded to the Dons. It isn't just penalties the refs favour The Rangers. They get away with fouls and bookings that we never get away with.

Rangers get around 3.5 times less penalties against them than the next team in the list, Liverpool and 4.5 times less than all teh other big teams. The Rangers don't win teh league most years!

[matty_f]

Where he plays has no bearing on that. He is the penalty taker so it is the amount of penalties his team gets that matters. I don't think it is unreasonable for The Rangers or Celtc to get more penalties and concede less due to them being on the attack more. I would however fully expect the stats to favour Celtc over the last 5 seasons as bar one year they have been the best side.

Single decisions in games don't really tell us much it is when hundreds of games are shown to provide anomalies the evidence stacks up. Even with yesterdays game the Cantwell dive was ridiculous and I would imagine most teams would get a booking, the Goldson elbow was again obvious and most teams would see red and the penalty was a tug with the ball in play so easy to see why it was given but there was a foul by The Rangers before it so arguably that should have been awarded to the Dons. It isn't just penalties the refs favour The Rangers. They get away with fouls and bookings that we never get away with.

Rangers get around 3.5 times less penalties against them than the next team in the list, Liverpool and 4.5 times less than all teh other big teams. The Rangers don't win teh league most years!

I haven’t checked them, but the fouls/booking stats usually go in Rangers’ favour as well. It takes a lot less for a Hibs player to be booked than it does a Rangers player, or at least it has done historically.

Edit, found this: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/celtic-receive-fewest-cards-per-fouls-in-scottish-premiership-as-hibs-among-the-most-punished-3621589 Celtic got away with most fouls without a booking and who would have guessed Rangers are next?

[Stubbsy90+2]

I haven’t checked them, but the fouls/booking stats usually go in Rangers’ favour as well. It takes a lot less for a Hibs player to be booked than it does a Rangers player, or at least it has done historically.

Edit, found this: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/celtic-receive-fewest-cards-per-fouls-in-scottish-premiership-as-hibs-among-the-most-punished-3621589 Celtic got away with most fouls without a booking and who would have guessed Rangers are next?

Rangers have had 38 bookings to Hibs 41 this season. Not sure if that’s across all competitions or the league only though, Sky Sports dont clarify. And of course that’s not considering amount of fouls etc, just purely the amount of bookings.

[wookie70]

I haven’t checked them, but the fouls/booking stats usually go in Rangers’ favour as well. It takes a lot less for a Hibs player to be booked than it does a Rangers player, or at least it has done historically.

Yes, well in their favour. This site is pretty good - https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/64/stats/season/17806/teams/fk_foul_lost_team

The Rangers committed the 8th most fouls in the league last year, they had the least red cards and the second least yellow cards. Celtc had the least Yellows but also the least fouls. The whole game has been rigged for decades but with stats, VAR and better TV coverage it is now glaringly obvious

[lapsedhibee]

Where he plays has no bearing on that.

Where he plays does have a bearing on what percentage of his goals come from penalties. If a team's goalie is the penalty taker, that percentage will likely be 100%. I was not commenting on the merit of the general argument about corruption, but the pointlessness of listing percentage pens as a stat to back up that argument.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.

[McD]

If so many decisions are objective, then you'd think they'd balance themselves out over a season or several seasons. Problem is, they don't. Over several seasons, Rangers can get 60+ penalties while having none given against them. Many of those penalties are "objective" awards that are simply not given at the other end. 50/50 decisions for Rangers become 100/0 and 50/50 decisions at the opposite end become 0/100.

The proof is in the statistics.


This, 100%

We would see similar penalties given and denied across all teams, when actually what we are seeing is 1 team getting decision consistently in their favour only



I see Barry Robson has made comments along those lines to the press, probably get his windows put in and car vandalised (hopefully not though)

[lapsedhibee]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.

Props to Potter who actually said something out loud when he was United manager.

[JimBHibees]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.

Spot on :not worth

[Chorley Hibee]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.

In a nutshell. 👏

[A Hi-Bee]

⚽️- Rangers are currently on a British record run of 67 games without conceding a penalty

⚽️- the world top flight record is 74 held by Barcelona in the 2011/12 - 2012/13 seasons (which is currently under investigation by Spanish FA)

⚽️-**Barca averaged 80% possession during that time (Rangers averaged 58% during their run)

⚽️ - before the current 67 game run, Rangers went 44 league games without conceding a penalty

⚽️ - so they have only conceded 1 penalty in their last 112 league games

⚽️- Since August 2020 they have the highest penalty differential in Europe’s top 20 leagues, ie pens for minus pens against.

⚽️ - Since the 20/21 season they have conceded a penalty on average every 42 league games (Celtic every 9 games)

⚽️- from 2018/19 season they have a penalty differential of +43 ( Celtic are +15 for the same period)

⚽️ - since 2018/19 Rangers have been awarded 52 penalties and conceded 9 (Celtic have had**39 and conceded 24)

⚽️ - Since last season (when VAR arrived in Scotland) Rangers have had 16 penalties in the league with 0 against (Celtic have had 12 with 7 against)

⚽️ - They are only team in a league with VAR that has never conceded a penalty since the technology was brought in anywhere in the world

⚽️ - If Rangers don’t concede a league penalty before the end of this year (8 games) then they will have set a new world record

⚽️ -**James Tavernier is now in the top 10 for the most penalties scored of all time

⚽️ - out of everyone on the list the Rangers captain has the highest percentage of goals from penalties

Top 10 penalty takers and % of goals that are penalties (via TransferMrkt)

C. Ronaldo 157 (18%)

Messi 109 (14%)

Totti 86 (27%)

Ibrahimovic 85 (15%)

Del Piero 77 (22%)

Shearer 72 (18%)

Ronaldinho 70 (30%)

Cavani**61 (14%)

Lampard 60 (20%)

Tavernier 58 (48%)

:top marksShould be printed out in Braile as you would need to be blind not to see what goes on in Scotland.

[Joe6-2]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.

This in F****** spadefuls

[cubehindthegoal]

There is an argument that the glasgow teams inevitably do spend more time in the opposition box than anyone else so i'd be very surprised if they didn't get more pens than other teams statistically.

However it should not be by that much and the pens denied to both edinburgh teams yesterday (and on other occasions) shows there is something badly amiss

… and the main factor most people forget, is that the other teams only play the old firm 2 times in every 11 games, so the vast majority of matches (9 of 11) non-old firm teams are playing each other, where they will get many more chances and penalty box action. So there is no way the penalties awarded - both for and against - should be so massively different numbers as it is for the rangers. It doesn’t stack up at all.

[matty_f]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.
Yep.

[Northernhibee]

If the other ten teams were to come together and look to form a breakaway league, something would need to be done. There's no way that the SFA could allow that, and Celtic and Rangers can't just play each other thirty odd times a season.

[Zazu62]

Looking at the Celtic game at the weekend Motherwell scored in the 89th minute I believe someone correct me if I’m wrong? After they scored 10 mins of injury time was played, in fact maybe 11 or 12 minutes. If Motherwell hadn’t scored there would be absolutely no chance this happens. Did anyone see the game and where did all this time come from?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Yep.

A club that done that would be ridiculed in the media. Other clubs fans would also pile on.

Needs to be a few clubs standing together on it.

[neil7908]

⚽️- Rangers are currently on a British record run of 67 games without conceding a penalty

⚽️- the world top flight record is 74 held by Barcelona in the 2011/12 - 2012/13 seasons (which is currently under investigation by Spanish FA)

⚽️-**Barca averaged 80% possession during that time (Rangers averaged 58% during their run)

⚽️ - before the current 67 game run, Rangers went 44 league games without conceding a penalty

⚽️ - so they have only conceded 1 penalty in their last 112 league games

⚽️- Since August 2020 they have the highest penalty differential in Europe’s top 20 leagues, ie pens for minus pens against.

⚽️ - Since the 20/21 season they have conceded a penalty on average every 42 league games (Celtic every 9 games)

⚽️- from 2018/19 season they have a penalty differential of +43 ( Celtic are +15 for the same period)

⚽️ - since 2018/19 Rangers have been awarded 52 penalties and conceded 9 (Celtic have had**39 and conceded 24)

⚽️ - Since last season (when VAR arrived in Scotland) Rangers have had 16 penalties in the league with 0 against (Celtic have had 12 with 7 against)

⚽️ - They are only team in a league with VAR that has never conceded a penalty since the technology was brought in anywhere in the world

⚽️ - If Rangers don’t concede a league penalty before the end of this year (8 games) then they will have set a new world record

⚽️ -**James Tavernier is now in the top 10 for the most penalties scored of all time

⚽️ - out of everyone on the list the Rangers captain has the highest percentage of goals from penalties

Top 10 penalty takers and % of goals that are penalties (via TransferMrkt)

C. Ronaldo 157 (18%)

Messi 109 (14%)

Totti 86 (27%)

Ibrahimovic 85 (15%)

Del Piero 77 (22%)

Shearer 72 (18%)

Ronaldinho 70 (30%)

Cavani**61 (14%)

Lampard 60 (20%)

Tavernier 58 (48%)

I've seen this before and I think it's 68 games now but whatever the case it's absolutely staggering.

The Barcelona stat is very useful to compare with Sevco. This was a Barca team with some of the best players ever, who played by dominating possession and scored goals for fun.

Sevco have been miles behind Celtic for most of the period in the above stats. There is absolutely no logical reason for them to be getting such a higher number of penalties when they lag behind Celtic on every conceivable attacking metric over this period.

The fact the record at Barca is for a period they are being looked into for bribing refs is extraordinary.

The other thing that sticks in my mind is them getting 12 consecutive home draws in the cup a few years back. That didn't happen to Celtic, Hibs, Alloa or Brechin. It was the same team with the above pen stats. Odds of that are around 1/4096 I believe.

They are honestly laughing at us and that other 11 need to come together and demand answers.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

A club that done that would be ridiculed in the media. Other clubs fans would also pile on.

Needs to be a few clubs standing together on it.

At that point, I’d release another statement citing examples of their piss poor journalism and churning out the succulent lamb line. Then I’d ban them from Easter Road. Did Jackson ever apologise for publishing an article saying that every The Rangers player got maimed in 2016? Thought not. We should print that again as well and ask him for an apology. Take them to task.

When other clubs make a stance against the authorities, they generally get support from fans of other clubs whilst the other clubs turn the other way and pretend they didn’t see it.

[007]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.

Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen probably voted against strict liabilty because they knew it would be used against us and them whilst Rangers and Celtic would continued to be allowed to do what they like.

[Keith_M]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.


:agree:

[zitelli62]

If the other ten teams were to come together and look to form a breakaway league, something would need to be done. There's no way that the SFA could allow that, and Celtic and Rangers can't just play each other thirty odd times a season.

This 100% but won't happen only way is to boycott games against the both of them only the will sky ask why it would embarrass spfl or sfa to give answers as to why.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

This 100% but won't happen only way is to boycott games against the both of them only the will sky ask why it would embarrass spfl or sfa to give answers as to why.

And we should then ask Sky why they deliberately mute their microphones to block out the sectarian singing and if they’re embarrassed by it or if they are just being complicit? **** them as well.

[Is It On....]

When was the last time The The's conceded a penalty kick in the league?

I looked this up last night and it appears it was January 2022 against Aberdeen.

[HoboHarry]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.

Well said and 100% correct. What's even more strange though is that this public silence has continued even though owners have changed. People come and go and still Sevco get away with it. If there is one thing that disappoints me about the Gordon regime its that I'd had hoped that both our and Aberdeens American owners would be ball busters in the Fergus McCann mould and would fight any injustices, wishful thinking that turned out to be.

[Is It On....]

To be corrupt there would have to be a willingness by referees to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
There has always been a whole load of babbling on supporters forums of all clubs about corrupt referees but with zero credible evidence or proof.
So many decisions made by referees are on objective matters. Ask 100 different people about todays penalty decision for Rangers and you will get a raft of different opinions. There is no "correct" answer.
We can have an opinion on someones ability to do a job but it's insulting to question their integrity with again absolutely zero credible evidence or proof.

The point is though, that when it's a potential penalty against The Rangers, the outcome appears "somewhat" predictable that no penalty will be given. To not have conceded a penalty in nearly 2 years is so outside normal probable outcomes that you would question both your sample data and statistical calculations, neither of which in this instance are in dispute. You would therefore reasonably assume that your analysis was not capturing a key variable.

[jeffers]

I don’t know how many people have seen it, it came up on my Facebook feed, but there was a quick video of Stubbs talking about approaching a referee in an OF game when he felt Celtic had been denied a clear penalty. The referee told him there would never be a penalty awarded against the Currants while he was referee. If that’s not corrupt I don’t know what is.

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

All other teams refusing to play is only way forward.

Would embarrass the league

Only play when explanations are given in regard to consistency.

Alternatively

- they mic up refs
- they play the conversations during games for transparency
- they have to explain key decisions to media after game
- the captain is allowed an explanation, but no other player
- they have three refs on the pitch, one in each third like basketball

We will not be progressive though.

[HoboHarry]

All other teams refusing to play is only way forward.

Would embarrass the league

Only play when explanations are given in regard to consistency.

Alternatively

- they mic up refs
- they play the conversations during games for transparency
- they have to explain key decisions to media after game
- the captain is allowed an explanation, but no other player
- they have three refs on the pitch, one in each third like basketball

We will not be progressive though.
Scotland can't provide 6 top class referees on a weekly basis, far less 18 if we were to 3 on the park.

[Northernhibee]

Scotland can't provide 6 top class referees on a weekly basis, far less 18 if we were to 3 on the park.

Scotland absolutely can produce six top class referees. There just needs to be a better criteria than "From Glasgow or surrounding area".

There's not enough diversity in the referees that do get the top flight games in terms of where they're from, even if there are referees in the pool from all around Scotland. Nobody call tell me that Nick Walsh, John Beaton, or David Dickinson are in any way deserving of getting top games in the way that they do.

[JimBHibees]

Scotland absolutely can produce six top class referees. There just needs to be a better criteria than "From Glasgow or surrounding area".

There's not enough diversity in the referees that do get the top flight games in terms of where they're from, even if there are referees in the pool from all around Scotland. Nobody call tell me that Nick Walsh, John Beaton, or David Dickinson are in any way deserving of getting top games in the way that they do.

You can add Collum and Clancy to that list also.

[Rumble de Thump]

To be corrupt there would have to be a willingness by referees to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
There has always been a whole load of babbling on supporters forums of all clubs about corrupt referees but with zero credible evidence or proof.
So many decisions made by referees are on objective matters. Ask 100 different people about todays penalty decision for Rangers and you will get a raft of different opinions. There is no "correct" answer.
We can have an opinion on someones ability to do a job but it's insulting to question their integrity with again absolutely zero credible evidence or proof.

We see the evidence every time we watch the games. It's there for all to see in plain sight. They act dishonestly, and they get paid handsomely to do so every week. The question of whether or not there is corruption in Scottish football ceased to be a question at all decades ago. There's no doubt about it.

[Smartie]

27430

[WhileTheChief..]

I blame Hibs. And Hearts. And Aberdeen. And everyone else. We allow it, every single time.

Yes I have no doubt Hibs do what Hibs usually do and voice some tentative concerns through the correct and private channels but seriously, what ****ing good does it do?

It needs one club, somewhere, to grow a pair of ****ing balls and publicly release a statement calling it out for exactly what it is, shaming the SFA, SPFL, the Government and the media, not only for the sheer bias that goes on unchallenged but also for the disgraceful sectarian bile that is allowed to take place every single weekend. “But but but there’s too many of them to arrest them all”. Fine, make them play behind closed doors or even better, award the opponent three points until they start self-policing. But we can’t do that because we voted against strict liability. And whose fault is that? Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and the rest.


Spineless and subservient. That’s what we all are. And for that reason, The Rangers get away with it, the officials can intervene and as when they see fit, the governing bodies will say nothing, the Government will turn a blind eye and the pathetic excuse for succulent lamb chomping journalism is allowed to continue.

If you’re going to blame Hibs, you need to blame Hibs fans too. We do nothing, apart from bump our gums on here.

How many of you have ever written to the club with these thoughts?

How many protests have we organised or shown our disapproval in any shape or form? None.

When have we ever done anything about anything? Never.

The last time would have been hands off Hibs decades ago.

If we all stayed away from ER for a game, and the attendance was under 1000, then maybe we could make our point.

Until then, we can’t expect the club to make a grand gesture when we’re not willing to do so ourselves.

[matty_f]

We see the evidence every time we watch the games. It's there for all to see in plain sight. They act dishonestly, and they get paid handsomely to do so every week. The question of whether or not there is corruption in Scottish football ceased to be a question at all decades ago. There's no doubt about it.

I used to think it was conspiracy theory nonsense and that most of us just saw it through the lens of supporting Hibs (therefore we don’t see enough of the other teams and/or we only remember the calls that went against us) but you can now overlay the stats with the visual evidence - and there’s loads of it because the TV companies show them and only them, and i actually think it’s nuts to think that there’s anything other than an institutional bias at play.

From Rangers and Celtic never having to contend with jokers like Napier refereeing their games, to referees “keeping their cards in their pocket” to referee Old Firm games, to the permitting of irate official letters demanding answers if a referee dares give a decision against Rangers (see post Old Firm disallowed Rangers goal for latest example) to very selective use of VAR and an outright refusal to entertain the notion of a penalty against Rangers… the referees being selected from the same West of Scotland regions.

How much more evidence do we need?


(TL;DR version - They’re at it)

[HoboHarry]

Scotland absolutely can produce six top class referees. There just needs to be a better criteria than "From Glasgow or surrounding area".

There's not enough diversity in the referees that do get the top flight games in terms of where they're from, even if there are referees in the pool from all around Scotland. Nobody call tell me that Nick Walsh, John Beaton, or David Dickinson are in any way deserving of getting top games in the way that they do.

I've said the same multiple times on this site. CURRENTLY we can't provide 6 top class referees weekly. Anyone with any talent at all from Inverness, Aberdeen etc has no chance.

[Donegal Hibby]

I've said the same multiple times on this site. CURRENTLY we can't provide 6 top class referees weekly. Anyone with any talent at all from Inverness, Aberdeen etc has no chance.

That's probably the root of the problem that it's a club and if your not from one of the areas that's acceptable to join you probably haven't got a chance . I'm damn sure someone from Inverness , Aberdeen etc wouldn't do much worse of a job than the clowns we already have are doing!.

[Is It On....]

Scotland can't provide 6 top class referees on a weekly basis, far less 18 if we were to 3 on the park.

There are, to the best of my knowledge, no top tier referees outside of the West of Scotland. To call the probability of this situation as "unlikely" is being highly charitable.

[James70]

Rangers weren't even appealing for a penalty, yes technically it was an offence but would it apply to other clubs?

The VAR team were desperate to find a way out for Rangers.

Looking forward to Hibs getting a penalty in similar circumstances.

[Smartie]

I used to think it was conspiracy theory nonsense and that most of us just saw it through the lens of supporting Hibs (therefore we don’t see enough of the other teams and/or we only remember the calls that went against us) but you can now overlay the stats with the visual evidence - and there’s loads of it because the TV companies show them and only them, and i actually think it’s nuts to think that there’s anything other than an institutional bias at play.

From Rangers and Celtic never having to contend with jokers like Napier refereeing their games, to referees “keeping their cards in their pocket” to referee Old Firm games, to the permitting of irate official letters demanding answers if a referee dares give a decision against Rangers (see post Old Firm disallowed Rangers goal for latest example) to very selective use of VAR and an outright refusal to entertain the notion of a penalty against Rangers… the referees being selected from the same West of Scotland regions.

How much more evidence do we need?


(TL;DR version - They’re at it)

This is roughly where I am.

I'd started to get a bit disgusted hearing myself talking about it, thinking I sounded like a foil-hatted nonsense monger.

The longer it goes on the harder it is to escape the fact that there's something going on. Exactly what that is or why it is, I'm not sure. Rather than a premeditated bias, I reckon it's possibly a subconscious awareness from officials of the consequences they might face were they to give a big decision against Rangers, whether that be an online onslaught or whatever.

But there's something going on.

[matty_f]

Someone shared an example from our home game against Dundee earlier in the season. Hanlon, right in front of goal, is getting his shirt pulled. The image is as clear as you like.

The issue here isn't that Rangers got a penalty that wasn't merited yesterday, you can easily justify the decision (and they are all over social media shouting about how nobody should be complaining at a clear penalty being given). The problem is that almost no other club gets that penalty (with the caveat that St Mirren got a similar one against us a few weeks back).

Aberdeen should have had a penalty and (IMHO) a red card should have been shown to Goldson in the game yesterday. There was our penalty claim v Killie (I think - Newell on the touchline), or v Aberdeen. Hearts had one on Saturday, an absolute stone-waller as well as our claim on Saturday on Miller, that should have been a penalty.

Why do Rangers get that review when they really need it?

[I'm Spartacus]

Someone shared an example from our home game against Dundee earlier in the season. Hanlon, right in front of goal, is getting his shirt pulled. The image is as clear as you like.

The issue here isn't that Rangers got a penalty that wasn't merited yesterday, you can easily justify the decision (and they are all over social media shouting about how nobody should be complaining at a clear penalty being given). The problem is that almost no other club gets that penalty (with the caveat that St Mirren got a similar one against us a few weeks back).

Aberdeen should have had a penalty and (IMHO) a red card should have been shown to Goldson in the game yesterday. There was our penalty claim v Killie (I think - Newell on the touchline), or v Aberdeen. Hearts had one on Saturday, an absolute stone-waller as well as our claim on Saturday on Miller, that should have been a penalty.

Why do Rangers get that review when they really need it?

We can pick all these examples out all we want, the difference is the officials are viewing these through biased eyes :(

The game has been burst long ago, nobody in Scottish Football will change anything.

[Chorley Hibee]

This is roughly where I am.

I'd started to get a bit disgusted hearing myself talking about it, thinking I sounded like a foil-hatted nonsense monger.

The longer it goes on the harder it is to escape the fact that there's something going on. Exactly what that is or why it is, I'm not sure. Rather than a premeditated bias, I reckon it's possibly a subconscious awareness from officials of the consequences they might face were they to give a big decision against Rangers, whether that be an online onslaught or whatever.

But there's something going on.

I think you're being too kind.

The closed shop of the West coast refereeing fraternity and their frequent admission of their bias, on the after dinner speaking circuit, suggest it's all by design as opposed to anything else.

It's corrupt.

[WhileTheChief..]

These threads appear every now and again, then the feelings simply fade away.

If there was actual, bona fide evidence of corruption in the game, the media and law would have been all over it.

We've never heard a peep out of any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, or any other stakeholders.

Not a peep from Sky or any other major companies that put their money and reputation into the game either.

Whilst I agree the stats suck, it's too much of a stretch to say the whole game is corrupt. It's only ever fans on forums that think this way!

[greenlex]

These threads appear every now and again, then the feelings simply fade away.

If there was actual, bona fide evidence of corruption in the game, the media and law would have been all over it.

We've never heard a peep out of any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, or any other stakeholders.

Not a peep from Sky or any other major companies that put their money and reputation into the game either.

Whilst I agree the stats suck, it's too much of a stretch to say the whole game is corrupt. It's only ever fans on forums that think this way!
No it’s not- signed Barry Robson.
No its not - signed Peter Lawell

[Kato]

I think you're being too kind.

The closed shop of the West coast refereeing fraternity and their frequent admission of their bias, on the after dinner speaking circuit, suggest it's all by design as opposed to anything else.

It's corrupt.Well said. You have to able to see all aspects of it. The above culture, described well plus the actual statistics make a good case. The fact penalties for teams other than rangers aren't looked at garners more fuel to the fire. It is a bit tin hatty but we can all see who gets most favours. When the pre 2012 Craig Thomson was racking up bookings/red cards and pens against Hibs people thought his bias didn't exist until someone did the statistical analysis to show it most definitely did. Sometimes your gut instinct is correct and sometimes you just have to believe your eyes.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Chorley Hibee]

These threads appear every now and again, then the feelings simply fade away.

If there was actual, bona fide evidence of corruption in the game, the media and law would have been all over it.

We've never heard a peep out of any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, or any other stakeholders.

Not a peep from Sky or any other major companies that put their money and reputation into the game either.

Whilst I agree the stats suck, it's too much of a stretch to say the whole game is corrupt. It's only ever fans on forums that think this way!

Industrial scale cheating by Rangers went on for years in this country, yet neither the media, the law in this country (was it not English police that shed the light on them), nor any other stakeholders, saw fit to deal with what was staring them all in the face.

If that whole episode, and the fall out from it, still doesn't convince people that the game is corrupt in this country, then nothing will.

[WhileTheChief..]

No it’s not- signed Barry Robson.
No its not - signed Peter Lawell

Did it get them anywhere?

Since when did we ever pay attention to either of these two?

[Pretty Boy]

Someone shared an example from our home game against Dundee earlier in the season. Hanlon, right in front of goal, is getting his shirt pulled. The image is as clear as you like.

The issue here isn't that Rangers got a penalty that wasn't merited yesterday, you can easily justify the decision (and they are all over social media shouting about how nobody should be complaining at a clear penalty being given). The problem is that almost no other club gets that penalty (with the caveat that St Mirren got a similar one against us a few weeks back).

Aberdeen should have had a penalty and (IMHO) a red card should have been shown to Goldson in the game yesterday. There was our penalty claim v Killie (I think - Newell on the touchline), or v Aberdeen. Hearts had one on Saturday, an absolute stone-waller as well as our claim on Saturday on Miller, that should have been a penalty.

Why do Rangers get that review when they really need it?

If refs want to find a foul then they will find one, particularly in congested situation like set pieces.

How often when you played amateur football did a ref make a mistake by awarding a corner or free kick, almost immediately realise the error and as soon as the corner or whatever was taken blow for a defensive free kick? You even see it in the pro game. Ref makes a decision, reaction of players tells him he has got it wrong (it happens) and as soon as the resulting set piece is taken they blow for something they would let go in any other situation but it's an easy fix for their error.

It's the same principle. If you look hard enough at most set pieces that end with a high ball into the box then you will find something you can justify giving a foul for; penalty or defensive free kick. Equally, as in the case of Hanlon v Dundee, you can choose not to see certain infringements as well (or rather you just don't obsessively try to find them).

The penalty incidents in the LC semi finals are another example. I still think it's debatable whether the keeper on Vente was a foul but the referees instinct was to say no and the VAR officials backed the ref. Contrast that with the game on the Sunday when the ref had his whistle in his mouth and was pointing to the spot before the passage of play had even fully unfolded. It's not that neither of the Rangers penalties were so, it's that the refs have a natural instinct to look on them more favourably.

I'm not even alleging cash stuffed brown envelopes. I think refs are just terrified of the backlash from their fans if they miss anything so they are naturally inclined to favour them and terrified of missing anything. Easier to give that penalty yesterday and have a few disgruntled fans moaning on social media as opposed to having a full on backlash from the Rangers fanbase and the club. When you see where the vast, vast majority of top level refs come from then I think it's also inarguable that being in the right group and playing the game so to speak is a smart career move. Ultimately allowing self preservation and career advancement to negatively influence your decision making is still dishonest and arguably corrupt.

[ancient hibee]

I read somewhere yesterday that at the refs/coaches review meeting the refs said that grappling in the penalty area need not always result in a foul-it depended on where the ball was.
I read in the paper today that at the meeting refs emphasised their desire to clamp down on grappling in the penalty area!
If people can’ t even agree what’s been said no wonder it’s a shambles.

[Keith_M]

The first Scottish Cup Final was in 1873.

The first time a Scottish Cup Final had a referee from Edinburgh was in 1980.... 107 years later.

To date, only three Scottish Cup Finals have had Edinburgh Referees.



Nope, no West Coast bias here.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Stats, Facts, Hibsnet ,Social Media,elon musk ,Paranoia !!:grr:


Here is a real fact :agree:

My Grandfather Jimmy Devlin,who was Hibs daft would have been 122 years old this year.
He told me this story/tale when i was a schoolboy.
And it was an older family member who at first told him this.

Scenario

Crowds exiting Ibrox after game v Hibs, pre WW2
Punter from high tenement window above shouts down

"what was the score ?"
"Nil nil"!! came the angry reply from the blue throng below!

Voice once again from tenement window
"Who missed rAngers penalty ?"

I rest my case,m'lud
Its went on for a hundred years.
Maybe even more !

Nothing changes.

[wookie70]

I looked this up last night and it appears it was January 2022 against Aberdeen. just watched the highlights and the Dons were denied a stonewall pen that should have seen McGregor sent off before Haji scored immediately after. So even in the last game they got a pen against the ref strongly favoured them.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12519266/aberdeen-1-1-rangers-ryan-kent-sent-off-as-scottish-premiership-leaders-held-at-pittodrie

[lapsedhibee]

Industrial scale cheating by Rangers went on for years in this country, yet neither the media, the law in this country (was it not English police that shed the light on them), nor any other stakeholders, saw fit to deal with what was staring them all in the face.

If that whole episode, and the fall out from it, still doesn't convince people that the game is corrupt in this country, then nothing will.

Alex Thomson at Channel 4 News plugged away at it, and got plenty of abuse from **** for doing so. No windows in Scotland to tan though, so he kept on going. Good man!

[PHeffernan]

These threads appear every now and again, then the feelings simply fade away.

If there was actual, bona fide evidence of corruption in the game, the media and law would have been all over it.

We've never heard a peep out of any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, or any other stakeholders.

Not a peep from Sky or any other major companies that put their money and reputation into the game either.

Whilst I agree the stats suck, it's too much of a stretch to say the whole game is corrupt. It's only ever fans on forums that think this way!

Thank God, a sane voice in a sea of madness.

[McD]

Industrial scale cheating by Rangers went on for years in this country, yet neither the media, the law in this country (was it not English police that shed the light on them), nor any other stakeholders, saw fit to deal with what was staring them all in the face.

If that whole episode, and the fall out from it, still doesn't convince people that the game is corrupt in this country, then nothing will.



The same media continue to ignore all of that, you never hear a peep about any of that stuff that happened with rangers. It’s been whitewashed from history as far as they’re concerned.

[HoboHarry]

These threads appear every now and again, then the feelings simply fade away.

If there was actual, bona fide evidence of corruption in the game, the media and law would have been all over it.

We've never heard a peep out of any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, or any other stakeholders.

Not a peep from Sky or any other major companies that put their money and reputation into the game either.

Whilst I agree the stats suck, it's too much of a stretch to say the whole game is corrupt. It's only ever fans on forums that think this way!
If you really believe that you haven't been paying attention.

[gbhibby]

Thank God, a sane voice in a sea of madness.
There is a credibility issue though

[Chorley Hibee]

Alex Thomson at Channel 4 News plugged away at it, and got plenty of abuse from **** for doing so. No windows in Scotland to tan though, so he kept on going. Good man!

A quote from Alex Thomson at the time...

"The biggest organised cheating scandal in the history of Scottish football – probably British football and possibly in British sport"

Yet we're still being told, even by fellow Hibs fans, that the game isn't corrupt.

Sorry, but it's laughable.

[Donegal Hibby]

Thank God, a sane voice in a sea of madness.

Most Scottish clubs forums are discussing this , it might be a sea of madness to some though I think that there's been enough controversial decisions and facts to justify that there's corruption in our game !.

[neil7908]

Thank God, a sane voice in a sea of madness.

Have you read the stats previously posted? This isn't about one off decisions.

Can you explain why Sevco have so few penalties awarded against them at a time they have been distinctly average? This isn't some all conquering team. They have been miles behind Celtic recently apart from one year, and yet they are consistently getting a massive number of decisions in their favour, time and time again.

[007]

These threads appear every now and again, then the feelings simply fade away.

If there was actual, bona fide evidence of corruption in the game, the media and law would have been all over it.

We've never heard a peep out of any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, or any other stakeholders.

Not a peep from Sky or any other major companies that put their money and reputation into the game either.

Whilst I agree the stats suck, it's too much of a stretch to say the whole game is corrupt. It's only ever fans on forums that think this way!

There is bona fide evidence of sectarianism, are the media and law all over that? Do you think there's no sectarianism in Scottish football?

[neil7908]

These threads appear every now and again, then the feelings simply fade away.

If there was actual, bona fide evidence of corruption in the game, the media and law would have been all over it.

We've never heard a peep out of any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, or any other stakeholders.

Not a peep from Sky or any other major companies that put their money and reputation into the game either.

Whilst I agree the stats suck, it's too much of a stretch to say the whole game is corrupt. It's only ever fans on forums that think this way!

Remember when Rangers went bust? Despite what the rules said, what did the football authorities do?

They desperately tried to parachute them back into the SPL, and when that didn't work, the First Division of the SFL.

This was an opportunity not afforded to any other club that encountered the same issues as Rangers. There were rules for this kind of event and precedent, and yet a fix was created to benefit one team, along with warnings of "Armagedon" if the authorities didn't get their way.

So you've got literal evidence of the authorities ignoring their own processes to help the same team that now seems unable to get a penalty awarded against them, and got 12 consecutive home draws in the cup (at 1/4096 odds), and your reaction is that it's all just conspiracy theories?

[PHeffernan]

Have you read the stats previously posted? This isn't about one off decisions.

Can you explain why Sevco have so few penalties awarded against them at a time they have been distinctly average? This isn't some all conquering team. They have been miles behind Celtic recently apart from one year, and yet they are consistently getting a massive number of decisions in their favour, time and time again.

If there is a conspiracy those conducting it have been beyond incompetent considering the only team that could beat Rangers have won the League 11 seasons out of the last 12. Hell, their kit man could manage them to 2nd place every season.
Let that sink in, 11 seasons out of the last 12 they have finished in the lowest possible SPL position it was possible for them to finish.
As such it would qualify as the worlds most rubbishly executed conspiracy.

The top 4 threads on this board are currently this one, Cantwell Dive, Block 7 and Boycotting Scottish Football.
Tears, tears, tears and more tears. Neurotic.net

I enjoy watching scottish football, I love supporting Hibs, I have no interest in and don't get bent out of shape about penalties for or against Celgers. They play in their own 2 team league and last season both spent close to £60 million in wages. As such there are no circumstances were we are ever competing with them in the SPL just like there are no circumstances were they are competing in the Champions League.
As the speccy guy said, natural order and our real fight and interest is with the fortunes of the other 9 clubs in our league.

[HoboHarry]

Remember when Rangers went bust? Despite what the rules said, what did the football authorities do?

They desperately tried to parachute them back into the SPL, and when that didn't work, the First Division of the SFL.

This was an opportunity not afforded to any other club that encountered the same issues as Rangers. There were rules for this kind of event and precedent, and yet a fix was created to benefit one team, along with warnings of "Armagedon" if the authorities didn't get their way.

So you've got literal evidence of the authorities ignoring their own processes to help the same team that now seems unable to get a penalty awarded against them, and got 12 consecutive home draws in the cup (at 1/4096 odds), and your reaction is that it's all just conspiracy theories?

Not to mention all of those "imperfectly registered" players. Every single game that any of those players played in should have been reversed to a 3-0 defeat for oldco, instead it was swept under the carpet and a new company was allowed to keep the old clubs titles. Rotten to the core and Hibs and every other club stood there staring at their shoes with their fingers in their ears.

[Zazu62]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steven-gerrard-crisis-former-rangers-31540626.amp

[SickBoy32]

If there is a conspiracy those conducting it have been beyond incompetent considering the only team that could beat Rangers have won the League 11 seasons out of the last 12. Hell, their kit man could manage them to 2nd place every season.
Let that sink in, 11 seasons out of the last 12 they have finished in the lowest possible SPL position it was possible for them to finish.
As such it would qualify as the worlds most rubbishly executed conspiracy.

The top 4 threads on this board are currently this one, Cantwell Dive, Block 7 and Boycotting Scottish Football.
Tears, tears, tears and more tears. Neurotic.net

I enjoy watching scottish football, I love supporting Hibs, I have no interest in and don't get bent out of shape about penalties for or against Celgers. They play in their own 2 team league and last season both spent close to £60 million in wages. As such there are no circumstances were we are ever competing with them in the SPL just like there are no circumstances were they are competing in the Champions League.
As the speccy guy said, natural order and our real fight and interest is with the fortunes of the other 9 clubs in our league.

What a terrible post that is, just nonsense start to finish. Happy to roll over and get your belly tickled, at the same time having a dig at folk calling out the blatant corruption within Scottish football.

FWIW I’ve seen the **** finish below ‘the lowest place they could possibly finish’ a few times. Have some ambition.

What an awful outlook you’ve got, must be trolling.

I would support a total boycott of the home match vs the *** in January, and refuse any ticket sales in the away end too. Let’s be bold, enough is enough.

[The Modfather]

These threads appear every now and again, then the feelings simply fade away.

If there was actual, bona fide evidence of corruption in the game, the media and law would have been all over it.

We've never heard a peep out of any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, or any other stakeholders.

Not a peep from Sky or any other major companies that put their money and reputation into the game either.

Whilst I agree the stats suck, it's too much of a stretch to say the whole game is corrupt. It's only ever fans on forums that think this way!

Sectarianism goes on every week yet we never hear a peep from any officials at Hibs, ex-employees, sponsors, other stakeholders, sky or other major companies. That subject also appears on threads on here and then dies away again. That doesn’t mean the problem of sectarianism only exists on fans forums and not in the real world of Scottish football.

[GreenCastle]

There is definitely a west coast bias in the Scottish game.

That can’t be argued against.

Rangers and Celtic NEVER play each other first game of the season.

They are on Sky TV more than others.

They have their own ends at the national stadium.

They have nearly all the refs from the West Coast

That’s just a start but anyone who doesn’t that is deluded.

[JimBHibees]

If you really believe that you haven't been paying attention.

Indeed

[Pretty Boy]

Corruption doesn't have to mean money changing hands or officials acting under explicit instruction to favour Rangers. It can just mean referees and other officials within the game doing what is best for their own career and when you look at the demographics of the people who reach the top then I don't think favouring Rangers does anyone any harm when it comes to rising through the ranks.

It's hardly exclusive to football. How many people have seen colleagues with no obviously exceptional talent promoted way beyond their competencies at work because they have played the game in a way that others haven't? With refereeing it becomes a cyclical issue as well; refs from outside the Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Ayrshire bubble see their colleagues consistently overlooked for promotion so there is less incentive to take up refereeing or really push to reach the top level as less talented people will get the nod before you for reasons outside of competency. Plenty guys who refereed at EoS level and the like would testify to that. Andrew Dallas is a prime example, a bigger case of nepotism you will never see. The guy was bordering on a joke when he was coming through the ranks, totally out his depth yet he was consistently advanced when far more talented referees stagnated.

You can call it paranoid conspiracy if you like but when Fergus McCann took Jim Farry to task way back in the late 1990s, alleging he deliberately delayed the registration of a player so he missed a semi final v Rangers, an independent commission found in his favour and Farry was forced to resign. Was that an isolated incident? You can dismiss so much as conspiracy theory if you like but when you consider everything that has happened with Rangers in the intervening years then I'm far from convinced. There is an inherent bias towards them at almost every level of governance in the game in Scotland; it might not be openly spoken about or under explicit instruction but there is only so much that can be explained away as simple coincidence.

[chippy]

A Hibs supporting journalist friend told me way back during Alex Miller’s tenure that Alex told him that the extent of bias toward Rangers throughout the Scottish game was massive- that he wouldn’t believe how deep it was

[JimBHibees]

Alex Thomson at Channel 4 News plugged away at it, and got plenty of abuse from **** for doing so. No windows in Scotland to tan though, so he kept on going. Good man!

Yes he absolutely called it out as it is and was such a breath of fresh air. Wish he would come back and do the same. His analysis of the succulent lamb media summed it up. Craig Whyte sending the Record sports editor a club statement to check if ok says it all about that relationship. Absolutely corrupt to the core.

[JimBHibees]

Corruption doesn't have to mean money changing hands or officials acting under explicit instruction to favour Rangers. It can just mean referees and other officials within the game doing what is best for their own career and when you look at the demographics of the people who reach the top then I don't think favouring Rangers does anyone any harm when it comes to rising through the ranks.

It's hardly exclusive to football. How many people have seen colleagues with no obviously exceptional talent promoted way beyond their competencies at work because they have played the game in a way that others haven't? With refereeing it becomes a cyclical issue as well; refs from outside the Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Ayrshire bubble see their colleagues consistently overlooked for promotion so there is less incentive to take up refereeing or really push to reach the top level as less talented people will get the nod before you for reasons outside of competency. Plenty guys who refereed at EoS level and the like would testify to that. Andrew Dallas is a prime example, a bigger case of nepotism you will never see. The guy was bordering on a joke when he was coming through the ranks, totally out his depth yet he was consistently advanced when far more talented referees stagnated.

You can call it paranoid conspiracy if you like but when Fergus McCann took Jim Farry to task way back in the late 1990s, alleging he deliberately delayed the registration of a player so he missed a semi final v Rangers, an independent commission found in his favour and Farry was forced to resign. Was that an isolated incident? You can dismiss so much as conspiracy theory if you like but when you consider everything that has happened with Rangers in the intervening years then I'm far from convinced. There is an inherent bias towards them at almost every level of governance in the game in Scotland; it might not be openly spoken about or under explicit instruction but there is only so much that can be explained away as simple coincidence.

Yep the Farry incident was despicable then resigned and had signed a convenient non disclosure agreement. Celtic should have sued his ass off. The number of ex refs doing the circuit bragging about being Rangers fans and being allowed to referee their final game at their favourite ground simply says it all.

[matty_f]

Yep the Farry incident was despicable then resigned and had signed a convenient non disclosure agreement. Celtic should have sued his ass off. The number of ex refs doing the circuit bragging about being Rangers fans and being allowed to referee their final game at their favourite ground simply says it all.

Did Hugh Dallas not have to resign after circulating a sectarian email? I’m sure the referee’s strike came on the back of Celtic being awarded, then not, a penalty, in an incident that the referee or their assistant (i can’t remember the exact details) lied about to cover up the decision.

[Carheenlea]

The late penalty on Saturday saved them a point and cost Aberdeen 2.

Similar incidents in penalty boxes for others, non-old firm basically, get waved away every week which in turn can cost clubs points while Rangers and Celtic get pretty much every debatable decision in their favour. Over the course of a season that amounts to a fair amount of points which are won and lost in tight games which are refereed to a two-tier standard.

Is the difference enough to enable a non- old firm League winner? Probably not, but giving someone a better chance of second place is not an unrealistic outcome of a one-tier, unbiased officiating of the game.

The “gulf” between Old Firm and the rest is often used as a stick to beat Scottish Football with, and while the financial advantage is an unfortunate fact of life that clubs like of that size will always have, the advantage of favourable officiating of their games is something that can, and should be addressed.

The refereeing of Old Firm games is contributing greatly to the gulf that sits between Old Firm and the rest.

[Pretty Boy]

Did Hugh Dallas not have to resign after circulating a sectarian email? I’m sure the referee’s strike came on the back of Celtic being awarded, then not, a penalty, in an incident that the referee or their assistant (i can’t remember the exact details) lied about to cover up the decision.

Dallas spoke about the email incident recently.

Considering he has had over a decade to come up with a story you would have thought he could have managed better than 'I said to someone who thinks of these things and they said send it to me so I did'. You'd laugh at a 10 year old for coming out with such a crap excuse. It's not that it's implausible that is exactly what happened but it's hardly any kind of excuse for using a work email for such purposes.

[Not In The Know]

Someone shared an example from our home game against Dundee earlier in the season. Hanlon, right in front of goal, is getting his shirt pulled. The image is as clear as you like.

The issue here isn't that Rangers got a penalty that wasn't merited yesterday, you can easily justify the decision (and they are all over social media shouting about how nobody should be complaining at a clear penalty being given). The problem is that almost no other club gets that penalty (with the caveat that St Mirren got a similar one against us a few weeks back).

Aberdeen should have had a penalty and (IMHO) a red card should have been shown to Goldson in the game yesterday. There was our penalty claim v Killie (I think - Newell on the touchline), or v Aberdeen. Hearts had one on Saturday, an absolute stone-waller as well as our claim on Saturday on Miller, that should have been a penalty.

Why do Rangers get that review when they really need it?


No coincidence it was AGAINST us.

[1van Sprou7e]

https://i.imgur.com/fnuf8NF.jpg

:hnetinq::brickwall:lips seal

[matty_f]

No coincidence it was AGAINST us.

Has anyone got a list of ones that have gone FOR us? I mean really (or even quite) contentious decisions where VAR has intervened in our favour?

Killie had a man sent off for a high boot catching Cabraja’s neck after initially getting a yellow card. VAR stepped in, and he was sent off. Not especially contentious but it sparked enough debate on here to suggest it’s not a clear and obvious, so if I’ll take that as one.

Does anyone have another?

[wookie70]

Has anyone got a list of ones that have gone FOR us? I mean really (or even quite) contentious decisions where VAR has intervened in our favour?

Killie had a man sent off for a high boot catching Cabraja’s neck after initially getting a yellow card. VAR stepped in, and he was sent off. Not especially contentious but it sparked enough debate on here to suggest it’s not a clear and obvious, so if I’ll take that as one.

Does anyone have another?

I think it is a blank sheet of paper. I can't think of any 50:50s where VAR has helped us. I don't think the Cabraja one was 50:50. There are fairly significant numbers of where you would have expected VAR to intervene on our behalf and it hasn't and also a significant number where it has intervened where refs had not given anything and VAR has made us suffer. Some of the decisions are unexplainable. The push on Marshall against Ross County which cost us two very valuable points can only really be seen as a blatant foul. The dive Duk was awarded a penalty for was as obvious as they come. You can only really give the benefit of the doubt so long before corruption and favouritism is the conclusion

[matty_f]

I think it is a blank sheet of paper. I can't think of any 50:50s where VAR has helped us. I don't think the Cabraja one was 50:50. There are fairly significant numbers of where you would have expected VAR to intervene on our behalf and it hasn't and also a significant number where it has intervened where refs had not given anything and VAR has made us suffer. Some of the decisions are unexplainable. The push on Marshall against Ross County which cost us two very valuable points can only really be seen as a blatant foul. The dive Duk was awarded a penalty for was as obvious as they come. You can only really give the benefit of the doubt so long before corruption and favouritism is the conclusion

I asked on the podcast Twitter, a Livi fan said Jason Holt’s red card at Easter Rd, ref wasn’t sent to the monitor and general consensus from pundits was that it wasn’t a red. I agree with you on the Killie one, to be fair. I was just trying to be objective!

[ancient hibee]

Has anyone got a list of ones that have gone FOR us? I mean really (or even quite) contentious decisions where VAR has intervened in our favour?

Killie had a man sent off for a high boot catching Cabraja’s neck after initially getting a yellow card. VAR stepped in, and he was sent off. Not especially contentious but it sparked enough debate on here to suggest it’s not a clear and obvious, so if I’ll take that as one.

Does anyone have another?

JDH red card downgraded to yellow.

[PHeffernan]

What a terrible post that is, just nonsense start to finish. Happy to roll over and get your belly tickled, at the same time having a dig at folk calling out the blatant corruption within Scottish football.

FWIW I’ve seen the **** finish below ‘the lowest place they could possibly finish’ a few times. Have some ambition.

What an awful outlook you’ve got, must be trolling.

I would support a total boycott of the home match vs the *** in January, and refuse any ticket sales in the away end too. Let’s be bold, enough is enough.

A lot of fighting talk there. Do you have the trousers?
Let me tell you what will actually happen before and after the January home match v Rangers:

Hibs will sell Rangers supporters all the tickets for the south stand as they always do
Their supporters will sing the same songs as they always do
Hibs will count the money and say nothing as they always do
There will be online rants about their supporters on here as there always is and some posters will write emails and letters to the club as they always do
Hibs will cut and paste replies to the writers from their bank of previous Rangers game replies as they always do
After 5 days the complainers and the online fighting talkers will have punched themselves out and will move on as they always do

See you behind the goals.

[matty_f]

JDH red card downgraded to yellow.

Which game was that again? Was that contentious?

[WhileTheChief..]

If you really believe that you haven't been paying attention.


Why hasn’t anyone from Hibs taken any action ? Have they not been paying attention either?

STF owned us for decades. You couldn’t find a more decent man than him yet you’re all saying he was complicit in this conspiracy.

Same for every other player we’ve ever had. None of them think the game is corrupt.

[Bridge hibs]

Which game was that again? Was that contentious?

Celtic at Easter road, unless there was another

[WhileTheChief..]

The first Scottish Cup Final was in 1873.

The first time a Scottish Cup Final had a referee from Edinburgh was in 1980.... 107 years later.

To date, only three Scottish Cup Finals have had Edinburgh Referees.



Nope, no West Coast bias here.

Are you taking about where they born and brought up or where they lived at the time the cup finals were played?

Maybe some were born in Edinburgh but by thre time they were refs they had moved!


Either way, where someone lives does not suggest bias in the slightest. That’s total tin foil stuff.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/MarioMo55922985/status/1729286768426365179?t=ZqfsMEhxJ2OoGaXO_GR6DA&s=19

Bar in Perth raising money for the local foodbank by selling Rangers penalty bingo tickets. 👍

[Mikey_1875]

Has anyone got a list of ones that have gone FOR us? I mean really (or even quite) contentious decisions where VAR has intervened in our favour?

Killie had a man sent off for a high boot catching Cabraja’s neck after initially getting a yellow card. VAR stepped in, and he was sent off. Not especially contentious but it sparked enough debate on here to suggest it’s not a clear and obvious, so if I’ll take that as one.

Does anyone have another?

By no means levels things out but one that springs to mind is Campbells penalty at Parkhead from the long throw on Hanlon. Probably similar to other shirt pull penalties in the “if you’re giving that, you’re giving 10 each game” category.

Bearing in mind that was after one of the softest/strangest second bookings you can imagine for Youan in that game.

[JimBHibees]

Dallas spoke about the email incident recently.

Considering he has had over a decade to come up with a story you would have thought he could have managed better than 'I said to someone who thinks of these things and they said send it to me so I did'. You'd laugh at a 10 year old for coming out with such a crap excuse. It's not that it's implausible that is exactly what happened but it's hardly any kind of excuse for using a work email for such purposes.

What does I said to someone who thinks of these things mean?

[Hibernia&Alba]

https://twitter.com/MarioMo55922985/status/1729286768426365179?t=ZqfsMEhxJ2OoGaXO_GR6DA&s=19

Bar in Perth raising money for the local foodbank by selling Rangers penalty bingo tickets. 👍

You are buying money when you have a flutter on a Rangers penalty. It’s always worth a bet.

[lapsedhibee]

Why hasn’t anyone from Hibs taken any action ? Have they not been paying attention either?

STF owned us for decades. You couldn’t find a more decent man than him yet you’re all saying he was complicit in this conspiracy.

Same for every other player we’ve ever had. None of them think the game is corrupt.

Not The Rangers specifically but Stanton and Brown have spoken about how the Old Firm are treated differently. Stanton on players selected for Scotland and Brown on disciplinary action by referees.

[BoomtownHibees]

What does I said to someone who thinks of these things mean?

I think PB means that Dallas said to someone “who thinks of these things” and was then asked to send it on to the person he was speaking to

[greenginger]

You are buying money when you have a flutter on a Rangers penalty. It’s always worth a bet.

When it reaches the stage bookies refuse to take punts on Rangers being awarded a penalty, that should be evidence enough to take to footballing authorities and demand an investigation

[Kato]

Dallas spoke about the email incident recently.

Considering he has had over a decade to come up with a story you would have thought he could have managed better than 'I said to someone who thinks of these things and they said send it to me so I did'. You'd laugh at a 10 year old for coming out with such a crap excuse. It's not that it's implausible that is exactly what happened but it's hardly any kind of excuse for using a work email for such purposes.It was while the pope was in Scotland and the "joke" centred him being a paedophile.

I think he copied in several others as well.

Only a one off incident and there's little chance they are bigots as well as being bias I'm sure....

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[HoboHarry]

https://twitter.com/MarioMo55922985/status/1729286768426365179?t=ZqfsMEhxJ2OoGaXO_GR6DA&s=19

Bar in Perth raising money for the local foodbank by selling Rangers penalty bingo tickets. 👍
That this is even a real thing would have most other organizations squirming with embarrassment, here is Scotland it'll be ignored by the governing body. Nothing to see here......

[SickBoy32]

A lot of fighting talk there. Do you have the trousers?
Let me tell you what will actually happen before and after the January home match v Rangers:

Hibs will sell Rangers supporters all the tickets for the south stand as they always do
Their supporters will sing the same songs as they always do
Hibs will count the money and say nothing as they always do
There will be online rants about their supporters on here as there always is and some posters will write emails and letters to the club as they always do
Hibs will cut and paste replies to the writers from their bank of previous Rangers game replies as they always do
After 5 days the complainers and the online fighting talkers will have punched themselves out and will move on as they always do

See you behind the goals.

I’ll try and ignore the usual condescending tone of your post.

Whilst I agree with your likely series of events, I do think we are fast approaching the point that action needs taken - and as far as I can see, a mass boycott of all games vs the cheats is the only way we could potentially shame the SFA (unlikely, I know) into some sort of correcting action.

What else can we really do as supporters of the game? I’d love to see all clubs fans outwith the OF show solidarity on this, and create a real statement. Can you imagine if the **** were turning up at empty grounds for the rest of the season, with banners over seats explicitly calling out the cheating by them and the SFA. Appreciate that talk of a boycott will likely upset folk for a multitude of reasons, but something needs done now imo.

Alternatively, we can continue to turn up, watch obviously corrupt decisions play out (as we all have countless times in the past) to help them collect the 3pts, all whilst being subjected to hate songs bellowing from the (overcrowded) away end.

Personally getting increasingly close to being totally scunnered with the game, there’s just no real point in participating in a league system that is so blatantly geared towards ensuring the status quo.

[HoboHarry]

I’ll try and ignore the usual condescending tone of your post.

Whilst I agree with your likely series of events, I do think we are fast approaching the point that action needs taken - and as far as I can see, a mass boycott of all games vs the cheats is the only way we could potentially shame the SFA (unlikely, I know) into some sort of correcting action.

What else can we really do as supporters of the game? I’d love to see all clubs fans outwith the OF show solidarity on this, and create a real statement. Can you imagine if the **** were turning up at empty grounds for the rest of the season, with banners over seats explicitly calling out the cheating by them and the SFA. Appreciate that talk of a boycott will likely upset folk for a multitude of reasons, but something needs done now imo.

Alternatively, we can continue to turn up, watch obviously corrupt decisions play out (as we all have countless times in the past) to help them collect the 3pts, all whilst being subjected to hate songs bellowing from the (overcrowded) away end.

Personally getting increasingly close to being totally scunnered with the game, there’s just no real point in participating in a league system that is so blatantly geared towards ensuring the status quo.
I doubt that would happen but it is a certainty that loss of revenue on that scale would catch the immediate attention of the club owners. Even two weeks of lost revenue would them s******g in their pants.

[JimBHibees]

Not The Rangers specifically but Stanton and Brown have spoken about how the Old Firm are treated differently. Stanton on players selected for Scotland and Brown on disciplinary action by referees.

Billy McNeill said the same when he became Aberdeen manager he then realised how well treated the Old firm were.

[JimBHibees]

I think PB means that Dallas said to someone “who thinks of these things” and was then asked to send it on to the person he was speaking to

Ok right get it now. Sounds like the lamest of excuses.

[Zazu62]

Has anyone got a list of ones that have gone FOR us? I mean really (or even quite) contentious decisions where VAR has intervened in our favour?

Killie had a man sent off for a high boot catching Cabraja’s neck after initially getting a yellow card. VAR stepped in, and he was sent off. Not especially contentious but it sparked enough debate on here to suggest it’s not a clear and obvious, so if I’ll take that as one.

Does anyone have another?

Cochrane red card

[JimBHibees]

Cochrane red card

That was a correct decision though

[McGruber]

⚽️- Rangers are currently on a British record run of 67 games without conceding a penalty

⚽️- the world top flight record is 74 held by Barcelona in the 2011/12 - 2012/13 seasons (which is currently under investigation by Spanish FA)

⚽️-**Barca averaged 80% possession during that time (Rangers averaged 58% during their run)

⚽️ - before the current 67 game run, Rangers went 44 league games without conceding a penalty

⚽️ - so they have only conceded 1 penalty in their last 112 league games

⚽️- Since August 2020 they have the highest penalty differential in Europe’s top 20 leagues, ie pens for minus pens against.

⚽️ - Since the 20/21 season they have conceded a penalty on average every 42 league games (Celtic every 9 games)

⚽️- from 2018/19 season they have a penalty differential of +43 ( Celtic are +15 for the same period)

⚽️ - since 2018/19 Rangers have been awarded 52 penalties and conceded 9 (Celtic have had**39 and conceded 24)

⚽️ - Since last season (when VAR arrived in Scotland) Rangers have had 16 penalties in the league with 0 against (Celtic have had 12 with 7 against)

⚽️ - They are only team in a league with VAR that has never conceded a penalty since the technology was brought in anywhere in the world

⚽️ - If Rangers don’t concede a league penalty before the end of this year (8 games) then they will have set a new world record

⚽️ -**James Tavernier is now in the top 10 for the most penalties scored of all time

⚽️ - out of everyone on the list the Rangers captain has the highest percentage of goals from penalties

Top 10 penalty takers and % of goals that are penalties (via TransferMrkt)

C. Ronaldo 157 (18%)

Messi 109 (14%)

Totti 86 (27%)

Ibrahimovic 85 (15%)

Del Piero 77 (22%)

Shearer 72 (18%)

Ronaldinho 70 (30%)

Cavani**61 (14%)

Lampard 60 (20%)

Tavernier 58 (48%)

These stats are incredible and irrefutable. Whilst it shows the bias I'm not convinced over brown envelopes and funny handshakes - probably more unconscious bias or subconscious bias, whatever the term is.. mixed in with some out and out skulduggery.

Something to keep in mind with those stats are that those are the domestic stats with matches governed by the west coast mafia. If the argument was that there is indeed no bias then clearly you would be talking about a team with absolute mastery of the defensive art of not giving away penalties and incredible.. even world record levels.. consistency with it. Would stand to reason then that their record in European competition, without west of Scotland officiating, would be similarly impressive... I wonder what the stats in Europe look like.

[matty_f]

Cochrane red card

That was a correct decision, though. VAR only intervened to confirm a matter of fact, which was whether or not the foul was inside the box.

[worcesterhibby]

I'd be careful about wishing we had more Edinburgh based Ref's officiating big matches.

Guess where the Edinburgh and District Referees Assoc hold most of their meeting - The Oriam
Guess where they held there charity quiz night - The Gorgie Suite, Tynecastle

You couldn't make it up.

[The Modfather]

I'd be careful about wishing we had more Edinburgh based Ref's officiating big matches.

Guess where the Edinburgh and District Referees Assoc hold most of their meeting - The Oriam
Guess where they held there charity quiz night - The Gorgie Suite, Tynecastle

You couldn't make it up.

I’ve been going to the referees quiz for a number of years. It used to be at a golf club, Turnhouse I think, but can’t quite remember which. When they moved from there they sounded out both Hibs and Hearts for a venue and apparently we were stratospherically more expensive.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

https://twitter.com/MarioMo55922985/status/1729286768426365179?t=ZqfsMEhxJ2OoGaXO_GR6DA&s=19

Bar in Perth raising money for the local foodbank by selling Rangers penalty bingo tickets. 👍

Watched the Georgia v Scotland game in there a couple of weeks ago, I think I prefer The Silvery Tay though.

[worcesterhibby]

I’ve been going to the referees quiz for a number of years. It used to be at a golf club, Turnhouse I think, but can’t quite remember which. When they moved from there they sounded out both Hibs and Hearts for a venue and apparently we were stratospherically more expensive.

Fair enough.. but frankly it's not a good look to hold your meetings at one clubs training ground and your events at the same clubs hospitality suite. Common sense would suggest they should be looking for a neutral venue, it's not like we are short of them in Edinburgh. It would be like the Association of Voting Returning Officers holding their Christmas party at a Conservative Club. It's just stupid. Optics are important if you want trust. They should move it back to a golf club. IMHO

[007]

An attila on Superscoreboard yesterday going nuts at the suggestion of a conspiracy in favour of the attilas, immediately after he'd just suggested Aberdeen lie down to Celtic but try extra hard against the attilas.

https://youtu.be/Z9AFV52rNfc?si=1lPStvgZ4vC5XMu6

[The Modfather]

Fair enough.. but frankly it's not a good look to hold your meetings at one clubs training ground and your events at the same clubs hospitality suite. Common sense would suggest they should be looking for a neutral venue, it's not like we are short of them in Edinburgh. It would be like the Association of Voting Returning Officers holding their Christmas party at a Conservative Club. It's just stupid. Optics are important if you want trust. They should move it back to a golf club. IMHO

I can see where you’re coming from but think it’s an element of looking at things through green tinted glasses. The refs do a lot of their training and fitness at Oriam, which I only know as my friends wife is quite high up in officiating in the ladies game.

Our quiz team captain is an official from up north and doesn’t support either of the Edinburgh or Glasgow teams. He echoes all that we say as fans that it’s a closed shop unless you’re from Glasgow or Lanarkshire. I don’t think there’s any Hearts bias in the Edinburgh association to be honest. Although we did jokingly complain to the quiz master one year (a Berwick fan) that the questions seemed to be pro hearts anti Hibs since we moved to Tynecastle.

[worcesterhibby]

I can see where you’re coming from but think it’s an element of looking at things through green tinted glasses. The refs do a lot of their training and fitness at Oriam, which I only know as my friends wife is quite high up in officiating in the ladies game.

Our quiz team captain is an official from up north and doesn’t support either of the Edinburgh or Glasgow teams. He echoes all that we say as fans that it’s a closed shop unless you’re from Glasgow or Lanarkshire. I don’t think there’s any Hearts bias in the Edinburgh association to be honest. Although we did jokingly complain to the quiz master one year (a Berwick fan) that the questions seemed to be pro hearts anti Hibs since we moved to Tynecastle.

Maybe just a bit of naivety bythem then. I work in Comms/PR and it just looks like the sort of optics mistake that can undermine peoples trust.

If he echoes everything we say about it being a closed shop..he needs to speak out !

[JimBHibees]

Maybe just a bit of naivety bythem then. I work in Comms/PR and it just looks like the sort of optics mistake that can undermine peoples trust.

If he echoes everything we say about it being a closed shop..he needs to speak out !

There was an article in the Herald where one of the main guys from the Edinburgh association spoke out about it.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/16114571.investigation-referees-blow-whistle-unrest/

One Ref from the capital city getting the Scottish cup final in a century does seem a little unlikely
Nowhere near fit for purpose and corrupt

[greenginger]

I’ve been going to the referees quiz for a number of years. It used to be at a golf club, Turnhouse I think, but can’t quite remember which. When they moved from there they sounded out both Hibs and Hearts for a venue and apparently we were stratospherically more expensive.

Hibs should have offered the facilities for free - and wired the place. :greengrin

[flash]

I'd be careful about wishing we had more Edinburgh based Ref's officiating big matches.

Guess where the Edinburgh and District Referees Assoc hold most of their meeting - The Oriam
Guess where they held there charity quiz night - The Gorgie Suite, Tynecastle

You couldn't make it up.

I have taken part in that quiz at least 10 times and thousands has been raised for many deserving causes.

Think you are well wide of the mark on this matter.

[Pretty Boy]

I can see where you’re coming from but think it’s an element of looking at things through green tinted glasses. The refs do a lot of their training and fitness at Oriam, which I only know as my friends wife is quite high up in officiating in the ladies game.

Our quiz team captain is an official from up north and doesn’t support either of the Edinburgh or Glasgow teams. He echoes all that we say as fans that it’s a closed shop unless you’re from Glasgow or Lanarkshire. I don’t think there’s any Hearts bias in the Edinburgh association to be honest. Although we did jokingly complain to the quiz master one year (a Berwick fan) that the questions seemed to be pro hearts anti Hibs since we moved to Tynecastle.

Many moons ago before Oriam was built the refs used to train at Peffermill and would often hold their meetings in the upstairs hospitality area afterwards. It just makes sense.

The SFA use Oriam regularly for various age group levels of the Scotland set up, both men and women, so it's not really that surprising or alarming they use it for referees.

Is the standing joke on here not that Oriam is nothing to do with Hearts anyway?

[Bridge hibs]

27436 😃