Thoughts on getting rid of var

[Hibby70]

It's just another example of football not doing things for the fans at games. If you are a fair weather/TV fan then VAR adds another interesting dimension to your viewing.

Those actually at the game are left confused and unable to celebrate properly in the moment.

[xbar81]

We don’t actually have goal line technology up here. Not like in England at least. In England, they have sensors that send an alert to the referee when the ball crosses the line. Up here it is VAR manually checking it similar to an offside.


pre var i thought the ref's watch buzzed when it was over the line? I remember seeing it in ironically a Hearts game on tv.


Obviously wasn't there in 2013 for Leigh Griff free kick, nor in 2017 Christmas game when we also had the ball over the line v them.

[Callum_62]

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[O'Rourke3]

[emoji1787][emoji1787]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/eb9b4daa591730bc72278be6785a8bcd.jpg

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[xbar81]

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An even bigger letter would be the number of decisions that have gone FOR them. Anyone made that point to them??

[HoboHarry]

Calvert-Lewin case in England showing how absurd var is. He went into a tackle that the referee didn't even give a foul for but then the var guy had him go to the screen and then send him off. Everton appeal and win, so the referee gives a correct decision, var tell him he's wrong and the following week the panel tells var it was them that was wrong.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't like var, but we need to keep it just to show the cheating that's going on. You have to think that eventually someone will spot it higher up than the SFA or whoever is in charge in Scotland.

[xbar81]

I don't like var, but we need to keep it just to show the cheating that's going on. You have to think that eventually someone will spot it higher up than the SFA or whoever is in charge in Scotland.

the cheating will soon become the norm though. Is that what you want?

They will never spot it as you say, they will just see it as part of the game and that opinions can differ on individual incidents.

Personally i'd rather it just went back to the ref doing it without any Var.

Still would like to see retrospective bans for things and appeals.

Goal line tech is fine... last thing we want is a repeat of England 2010 world cup kinda goal v Germany.

[Kato]

I don't like var, but we need to keep it just to show the cheating that's going on. You have to think that eventually someone will spot it higher up than the SFA or whoever is in charge in Scotland.My thoughts exactly, BH. Here's hoping they make some decisions so out kilter, or rather keep making them, EUFA are alerted

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[HoboHarry]

My thoughts exactly, BH. Here's hoping they make some decisions so out kilter, or rather keep making them, EUFA are alerted

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To be fair, the fact that Scottish referees are routinely ignored for major tournaments means UEFA are already alerted and frankly I don't think we have enough credibility or importance for them to care about taking further action.

[HoboHarry]

the cheating will soon become the norm though. Is that what you want?

They will never spot it as you say, they will just see it as part of the game and that opinions can differ on individual incidents.

Personally i'd rather it just went back to the ref doing it without any Var.

Still would like to see retrospective bans for things and appeals.

Goal line tech is fine... last thing we want is a repeat of England 2010 world cup kinda goal v Germany.
Unless England are on the receiving end obviously.....

[xbar81]

Unless England are on the receiving end obviously.....


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: or the yams



but on a serious note, what goes around comes around. Would it not be better to get rid of all these stupidly clearly over the line ones regardless of the teams involved? We've been on the wrong end of them

[overdrive]

pre var i thought the ref's watch buzzed when it was over the line? I remember seeing it in ironically a Hearts game on tv.


Obviously wasn't there in 2013 for Leigh Griff free kick, nor in 2017 Christmas game when we also had the ball over the line v them.

Not in league games. It was installed at Hampden for the League Cup semis/finals in 2021 but I'm not sure if it was kept.

The SFA also confirmed when VAR was introduced that goal line technology would not be introduced any time soon as it was too expensive.

[xbar81]

Not in league games. It was installed at Hampden for the League Cup semis/finals in 2021 but I'm not sure if it was kept.

The SFA also confirmed when VAR was introduced that goal line technology would not be introduced any time soon as it was too expensive.

Take it out the money they were gonna give the refs then.

[JimBHibees]

Keep goal line technology, that’s all we needed in the first place, get rid of VAR. However, you know that’s not going to happen as UEFA are heavily into it. But if it does stay, the decision making has to be made clearer and available. Mic’d up referees has to be the way forward.


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Don’t think Scotland has goal line technology

[xbar81]

The only way to save it is to get the challenge system in place, that way it is used sparingly. Only use one of your 2 challenges if you think you have a decent chance of success.


Someone said years ago "a good referee should never be noticed". Well a good system should also never be noticed either! By fkkkk this system is being noticed alright. It dominated the aftermath discussion more than the football it's self.

[IvanSproule]

Appeals are 100% the way to go. 1 per game, 30 second time limit after incident happened, keep it if successful lose it if not.

Main benefit being officials will go back to making decisions on the assumption that they will be final, they dont know if its gonna be checked or not.

Would stop 99% of big mistakes which is what VAR is for, and would stop it getting involved in every tackle, handball, offside etc.

Would go a long way to stop the second guessing at almost every goal as to whether VAR is gonna get involved, which is VARs biggest crime against football imo.

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[IvanSproule]

The only way to save it is to get the challenge system in place, that way it is used sparingly. Only use one of your 2 challenges if you think you have a decent chance of success.


Someone said years ago "a good referee should never be noticed". Well a good system should also never be noticed either! By fkkkk this system is being noticed alright. It dominated the aftermath discussion more than the football it's self.Definitely think it would need to be capped at 1 per game imo.
Teams would play it fast and loose with they're 1st appeal, checking every goal against, hard tackle etc, then get more careful if it's down to 1.

2 per team per game would almost guarantee at least 2 VAR checks per game I reckon, not much different to now.

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[ancient hibee]

Appeals are 100% the way to go. 1 per game, 30 second time limit after incident happened, keep it if successful lose it if not.

Main benefit being officials will go back to making decisions on the assumption that they will be final, they dont know if its gonna be checked or not.

Would stop 99% of big mistakes which is what VAR is for, and would stop it getting involved in every tackle, handball, offside etc.

Would go a long way to stop the second guessing at almost every goal as to whether VAR is gonna get involved, which is VARs biggest crime against football imo.

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Definitely think it would need to be capped at 1 per game imo.
Teams would play it fast and loose with they're 1st appeal, checking every goal against, hard tackle etc, then get more careful if it's down to 1.

2 per team per game would almost guarantee at least 2 VAR checks per game I reckon, not much different to now.

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So in this system if somebody punched the ball into our and it was missed on the park and we had used our appeals VAR wouldn't get involved and the goal would stand?

[xbar81]

Definitely think it would need to be capped at 1 per game imo.
Teams would play it fast and loose with they're 1st appeal, checking every goal against, hard tackle etc, then get more careful if it's down to 1.

2 per team per game would almost guarantee at least 2 VAR checks per game I reckon, not much different to now.

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Fair enough. I toyed with the idea of making either 2 or 3. 3 is far too many and I felt 1 wasn't enough, so that's why I went for 2 (there are 2 halfs to a football game afterall).


My other idea was you get 2 challenges come what may, so you don't get them back if they are correct. Still I don't mind your idea of 1 challenge but you get it back if correct. It's either or I think.

[xbar81]

So in this system if somebody punched the ball into our and it was missed on the park and we had used our appeals VAR wouldn't get involved and the goal would stand?

Would be the same as before VAR once you have used all your appeals. If what you said there happened in 2017 what would happen??

[ancient hibee]

Would be the same as before VAR once you have used all your appeals. If what you said there happened in 2017 what would happen??

A wrong decision would have been made-who wants that?

You really think that the clubs are going to pay thousands of pounds running a system that'll only operate twice in a game?

[xbar81]

A wrong decision would have been made-who wants that?

You really think that the clubs are going to pay thousands of pounds running a system that'll only operate twice in a game?

Good point about the system lying dormant for the rest of the game :confused:. Hadn't though of that.

Other than the whole thing ****ing off and I can't see a good answer. I guess my challenge solution only works if the system is free lol.


Perhaps you would have to continue checking EVERY goal as a matter of course but only allow the challenges for things not involving a goal?

[IvanSproule]

So in this system if somebody punched the ball into our and it was missed on the park and we had used our appeals VAR wouldn't get involved and the goal would stand?Yup it would, it's not perfect but I think better than what we have now.

I see it as a middle ground between what we had before, which was a better flow of game but at the cost of bad ref mistakes. And what we have now which is almost all big mistakes being caught but a game that is so much worse to watch, especially in the stadium.

The one good thing you can say about VAR is that massive mistakes like your example are getting noticed and corrected.

But at the moment the price of that is VAR also getting involved when 9 times out of 10 it's not required.



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[xbar81]

Yup it would, it's not perfect but I think better than what we have now.

I see it as a middle ground between what we had before, which was a better flow of game but at the cost of bad ref mistakes. And what we have now which is almost all big mistakes being caught but a game that is so much worse to watch, especially in the stadium.

The one good thing you can say about VAR is that massive mistakes like your example are getting noticed and corrected.

But at the moment the price of that is VAR also getting involved when 9 times out of 10 it's not required.





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May sound a bit strange, but massive mistakes are actually pretty rare in numbers. It's just they get blown up by the media and word of mouth, fans talking about them years later i.e. the free kick v Hearts or Henry's hand ball v Ireland etc..

[Pytheas]

Good point about the system lying dormant for the rest of the game :confused:. Hadn't though of that.

Other than the whole thing ****ing off and I can't see a good answer. I guess my challenge solution only works if the system is free lol.


Perhaps you would have to continue checking EVERY goal as a matter of course but only allow the challenges for things not involving a goal?


I think with a challenge system you could get rid of the actual referee operating VAR.

The biggest part of their job is reviewing EVERY incident and then deciding when to bring that to the match official. With the challenges it would be the 2 teams that decide which incidents get reviewed, then all you would need is a replay on a screen for the match referee to go and look at.

No need for a team of referees, multiple opinions officiating the game etc. Another positive imo.

[xbar81]

I think with a challenge system you could get rid of the actual referee operating VAR.

The biggest part of their job is reviewing EVERY incident and then deciding when to bring that to the match official. With the challenges it would be the 2 teams that decide which incidents get reviewed, then all you would need is a replay on a screen for the match referee to go and look at.

No need for a team of referees, multiple opinions officiating the game etc. Another positive imo.

all good points. amazing we can discuss this and the powers that be can't lol

[Pytheas]

all good points. amazing we can discuss this and the powers that be can't lol

True. I've got no faith in them coming to any kind of common sense outcome mate.

[xbar81]

Cracking start VAR has made in the celtic game :confused:

wasting half the game on a simple offside ffs

[greenlex]

Cracking start VAR has made in the celtic game :confused:

wasting half the game on a simple offside ffs
Absolute nonsense.

[hibee_girl]

Cracking start VAR has made in the celtic game :confused:

wasting half the game on a simple offside ffs

:agree:

It wasn’t even a narrow offside

[xbar81]

well i've switched it off now.

My 2 goal rule applies when watching the old firm these days. Soon as they are 2 clear I switch off :thumbsup: (unless they were down to 10 men)

[147lothian]

The semi against Aberdeen showed how much VAR is ruining the game

[gbhibby]

VAR is only as good as those who operate it, there should be a system allowing clubs to have access to the exchanges between the refs and VAR. If there is nothing to hide invite Mangers to observe it in action during a match not involving their team.

[xbar81]

VAR is only as good as those who operate it, there should be a system allowing clubs to have access to the exchanges between the refs and VAR. If there is nothing to hide invite Mangers to observe it in action during a match not involving their team.

i think that would make it worse. Less said the better, can't get any less than getting rid of the whole thing. Also means we no longer have to pay for it.

I want rid of the whole thing or for it to be used sparingly

[gbhibby]

i think that would make it worse. Less said the better, can't get any less than getting rid of the whole thing. Also means we no longer have to pay for it.

I want rid of the whole thing or for it to be used sparingly
There needs to be transparency as other fans forums are making the same points that one team in particular are benefiting from more referrals and interventions from VAR
I am not a qualified ref my dad was I did do his exam he sat and passed with flying colours. When the refs did that show recently and highlighted mistakes that were made they controlled the narrative. VAR still has a long way to go before they get it right I don't want it got rid of yet, perhaps our refs need to look at best practice in other countries

[xbar81]

There needs to be transparency as other fans forums are making the same points that one team in particular are benefiting from more referrals and interventions from VAR
I am not a qualified ref my dad was I did do his exam he sat and passed with flying colours. When the refs did that show recently and highlighted mistakes that were made they controlled the narrative. VAR still has a long way to go before they get it right I don't want it got rid of yet, perhaps our refs need to look at best practice in other countries

I still say GTF and save the money.

[hibsbollah]

There needs to be transparency as other fans forums are making the same points that one team in particular are benefiting from more referrals and interventions from VAR
I am not a qualified ref my dad was I did do his exam he sat and passed with flying colours. When the refs did that show recently and highlighted mistakes that were made they controlled the narrative. VAR still has a long way to go before they get it right I don't want it got rid of yet, perhaps our refs need to look at best practice in other countries

Its widely despised in every country where its been introduced. ‘VAR is only as good at the individuals who operate it’ is a cliché i see repeated often but is essentially meaningless.

VAR is ruining football because its based on one central fallacy; that the rules of the sport that can be applied as collective objective truths, when most decisions have to be based on one individuals subjective opinion.

[xbar81]

Its widely despised in every country where its been introduced. ‘VAR is only as good at the individuals who operate it’ is a cliché i see repeated often but is essentially meaningless.

VAR is ruining football because its based on one central fallacy; that the rules of the sport that can be applied as collective objective truths, when most decisions have to be based on one individuals subjective opinion.

here here :aok:



Also we have a comparison of what it is like WITHOUT var since it wasn't a long time ago. Game was better without it.

[hibby6270]

Here’s the latest FIFA recommendation after a recent review.

27636

[gbhibby]

Here’s the latest FIFA recommendation after a recent review.

27636
Always thought our refs were a bunch of Willie Wakkers 😁

[xbar81]

VAR is forensically chalking off goals. Instead it should forensically start chalking on goals (for both teams)

in other words, let's find excuse to allow goals rather than disallow them.

Sound good?

[greenlex]

VAR is forensically chalking off goals. Instead it should forensically start chalking on goals (for both teams)

in other words, let's find excuse to allow goals rather than disallow them.

Sound good?

It does both.

[xbar81]

It does both.

it's very lopsided. It needs to be flipped over the other way, and the default should be to allow more goals.

The only thing you could say in favour of it giving more goals is that it gives more penalties. That's technically not giving goals as it's just giving a set piece.

[Greensunshine]

I don’t ever recall being so fixated regards poor decision making from referees until the likes of Mourinho came to our shores. Yes we’d argue the odds back in the day but we would accept it and get on with it
For me there’s far too many intricacies in the rules of our game that even with VAR, you can’t ever hope to get decisions accurate on a consistent basis. In fact we’ve seen the opposite happen.
I’d rather we go back to trusting our referees and linesman to make the best judgement they can possibly make and we can all just get on with it.

[xbar81]

I don’t ever recall being so fixated regards poor decision making from referees until the likes of Mourinho came to our shores. Yes we’d argue the odds back in the day but we would accept it and get on with it
For me there’s far too many intricacies in the rules of our game that even with VAR, you can’t ever hope to get decisions accurate on a consistent basis. In fact we’ve seen the opposite happen.
I’d rather we go back to trusting our referees and linesman to make the best judgement they can possibly make and we can all just get on with it.

correct

[xbar81]

just watched the highlights. Never a red card for the killie boy, never a yellow, barely a foul.

This var should gtf despite it helping us this time.

[Leithenhibby]

just watched the highlights. Never a red card for the killie boy, never a yellow, barely a foul.

This var should gtf despite it helping us this time.

Nonsense, straight leg, studs showing, off the ground and follows through…

Red card all day long…

Glory Glory

[Criswell]

VAR needs to improve drastically as it is becoming a joke. It has proved to be not fit for purpose.

[Carheenlea]

just watched the highlights. Never a red card for the killie boy, never a yellow, barely a foul.

This var should gtf despite it helping us this time.

:lolyam:

[Glory Lurker]

For me there’s far too many intricacies in the rules of our game that even with VAR, you can’t ever hope to get decisions accurate on a consistent basis. In fact we’ve seen the opposite happen.
I’d rather we go back to trusting our referees and linesman to make the best judgement they can possibly make and we can all just get on with it.

Amen.

[ScottB]

I think keep it, but it needs fixes.

First, make it like rugby, mic everyone up, on screens in the stadium, so at least people know what’s going on.

I’d be tempted to limit the number of rewatches, or prevent slow mo for some things. If it can’t be spotted quickly at normal speed, it doesn’t matter. If you watch something often enough and slow enough, you’ll probably end up finding one split second freeze frame that looks bad, but who cares if a finger nail was offside for a tenth of a second?

A time limit helps too, again, if you can’t spot an issue in, say, 30 seconds, move on.

Basically it needs to be a more visible, but smaller, part of the game.

[xbar81]

Nonsense, straight leg, studs showing, off the ground and follows through…

Red card all day long…

Glory Glory

Your just saying that cause was in our favour.

[Rumble de Thump]

VAR should easily have ruled out Kilmarnock's goal yesterday for the clear foul on Vente, which the ref should have spotted himself. They could have chosen which foul - the climbing all over the player with hands on shoulders or the pulling of the shirt. Meanwhile, Hearts had two very dodgy VAR decisions in their favour, which gifted them three points. It's been a common theme this season. The problem wasn't with VAR technology, though. It was the refs and virtual assistant referees choosing not to apply the rules.

[Trinity Hibee]

If the officials are going to use it correctly and consistently then it’s pointless having it. Being at games and not being aware of what is going on is a disgrace

[JimBHibees]

Your just saying that cause was in our favour.

Or he has an opinion of his own and he is correct.

[Jones28]

VAR not intervening for Dundees third yesterday is a bloody disgrace.

I genuinely felt sorry for Martindale, talk about beating a man when he’s down. It was as blatant a push as you’ll ever see and it leads to a goal that kills any chance of a comeback.

[Eyrie]

I think keep it, but it needs fixes.

First, make it like rugby, mic everyone up, on screens in the stadium, so at least people know what’s going on.

I’d be tempted to limit the number of rewatches, or prevent slow mo for some things. If it can’t be spotted quickly at normal speed, it doesn’t matter. If you watch something often enough and slow enough, you’ll probably end up finding one split second freeze frame that looks bad, but who cares if a finger nail was offside for a tenth of a second?

A time limit helps too, again, if you can’t spot an issue in, say, 30 seconds, move on.

Basically it needs to be a more visible, but smaller, part of the game.

In rugby the referee will normally ask to see it again at normal speed before reaching a decision.

Your other point on a time limit is too obvious and sensible to ever be introduced.

[xbar81]

In rugby the referee will normally ask to see it again at normal speed before reaching a decision.

Your other point on a time limit is too obvious and sensible to ever be introduced.

Time limit is the way to go. At least till we think of a better way to run it. or.... get rid of it :-)

[xbar81]

Or he has an opinion of his own and he is correct.

50/50 on that one.

[Leithenhibby]

Your just saying that cause was in our favour.


Get back tae your bed...:wink:

27644

[greenlex]

In rugby the referee will normally ask to see it again at normal speed before reaching a decision.

Your other point on a time limit is too obvious and sensible to ever be introduced.

I think getting the correct decision is far more important than putting time limit in it. Introducing a time limit leaves the decision open to abuse. If deep down you don’t want to give a decision you could bugger about till the time was up.

[Rumble de Thump]

I think getting the correct decision is far more important than putting time limit in it. Introducing a time limit leaves the decision open to abuse. If deep down you don’t want to give a decision you could bugger about till the time was up.

It's only meant to be used for clear and obvious errors so it should be quick and easy to make the correct decision. If it's not then it's not clear and obvious and they should stick with the onfield decision.

[xbar81]

Get back tae your bed...:wink:

27644

Got the ball . Nowt wrong with it. Ryan portous used to do worse

[xbar81]

I think getting the correct decision is far more important than putting time limit in it. Introducing a time limit leaves the decision open to abuse. If deep down you don’t want to give a decision you could bugger about till the time was up.

Won't be clear and obvious then.

[greenlex]

Won't be clear and obvious then.

Every penalty shout and goal check has to be scrutinised. Putting a time limit on it isn’t the way forward. I suggest a poor challenge should be treated the same way clear and obvious or not. Cheats rarely make it obvious. Shirt pulling for example on the non linesman side is rife.

[greenlex]

Got the ball . Nowt wrong with it. Ryan portous used to do worse
After all the chat you’re still banging that drum. You’re consistent I’ll give you that.

[007]

Got the ball . Nowt wrong with it. Ryan portous used to do worse

Getting the ball 1st doesn't matter. A few frames later he follows through and connects with Jair's ankle. It was lucky he didn't break it.

[Leithenhibby]

Getting the ball 1st doesn't matter. A few frames later he follows through and connects with Jair's ankle. It was lucky he didn't break it.

This…

Straight leg and studs up, not to mention the fact he was off the ground so out of control and the follow through was inevitable and dangerous…

Glory Glory

[xbar81]

Getting the ball 1st doesn't matter.

that's the world we live in. Next you'll be saying men can get pregnant.

:-) i'm only joking btw.


it is still strange that getting the ball doesn't seem to matter anymore. Used to be the 1st thing that was considered. As others have said, football is dead.

[TheHibernator]

Got the ball . Nowt wrong with it. Ryan portous used to do worse

And he was quite often sent off as a result. What point are you trying to make?

I don’t think it’s a sending off personally but these are the laws of the game now and if they’re given against us the rules need to be consistent.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2024/jan/27/misapplication-of-laws-var-error-leads-to-full-replay-of-anderlecht-genk-belgium?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_ct=1706517662718&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17065176569705&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ffootb all%2F2024%2Fjan%2F27%2Fmisapplication-of-laws-var-error-leads-to-full-replay-of-anderlecht-genk-belgium



Whole game to be replayed because VAR got it wrong.

[xbar81]

so what's the update on this thread. Should it stay or go?

[HoboHarry]

so what's the update on this thread. Should it stay or go?

If it goes there will be trouble, if it stays there will be trouble.....

[xbar81]

If it goes there will be trouble, if it stays there will be trouble.....

you mean if it stay there will be DOUBLE.

[HoboHarry]

you mean if it stay there will be DOUBLE.

Errrr, yes....whoopsie..:greengrin

[xbar81]

will be double too. Double the amount of games played as each game has to be replayed hahaa