Is it time for clubs to make a stand?

[1two]

With the (as expected) news that SPFL will give rangers a greater allocation for the final, and not consider the proposal put forward by Aberdeen (where their allocation would be handed back if not sold and that their should be no Rangers or Celtic ends at a Neutral National stadium), is it time for action by collective clubs?

As frustrating as Saturday was, and whilst we have our own grievances just now (VAR), I can’t help but think if we had won on Saturday we’d be making the same point.

Apparently the clubs are the SPFL, so is it time for the clubs to sort this out? A collective stand from 4 or 5 bigger clubs could make change. Threaten to pull out next years competition without fair compromise for next years semi’s/final.

Neutral venue rules seem so obvious and could be the catalyst to change across our game.

[BobbyT1875]

Based on statement Aberdeen put they got sevco to agree to concessions in all
Stands . Makes you think what happened for the semi and did hibs not want concessions in all
Stands.

If Aberdeen feel that strongly , ld pull
out the final

[JammyDoidger]

Based on statement Aberdeen put they got sevco to agree to concessions in all
Stands . Makes you think what happened for the semi and did hibs not want concessions in all
Stands.

If Aberdeen feel that strongly , ld pull
out the final

Would love to see them pull out due to a lack of sporting integrity, it's what the Scottish game needs, massive wake up call.

[1two]

I get the point of Aberdeen pulling out, but I think that’s where it falls down.
One club v everyone.

It would also split their own fan base.

A collective “agree to fair neutral stadium rules” by the end of this season or we all withdraw from the competition next year. Us, Aberdeen, hearts and any others.

[James Stephen]

Yeah they should.

If it was me, i would take the allocation then refuse to sell it, embarrass them into answering questions about their 'neutral venue'.

Id also demand a coin toss over which ends of the ground are allocated.

[MWHIBBIES]

Completely our own faults. Can't sell 10k for semi finals and expect 25k for finals imo. We gave them the chance and they took it.

It should be fair but this is Scottish football.

[.Sean.]

Our club will not make a stand and especially against Rangers. They are bitches off the park as proved umpteen times and no much better on it. Next joke

[Iain G]

Probably best we don't let Hearts make a stand, given their recent track record.

[Scottie]

Completely our own faults. Can't sell 10k for semi finals and expect 25k for finals imo. We gave them the chance and they took it.

It should be fair but this is Scottish football.
:agree: No one else to blame but ourselves.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Aberdeen won't sell out the reduced allocation they've been given anyway, this is no different than the noise Hearts made about semi final allocation - before inevitably failing to sell their tickets. Cormack playing to the sheep gallery. As for the ends, what difference does it make? There is no on advantage gained! Seems perfectly reasonable for fans of teams that are there so often to be housed in same end where possible, ensuring people are familiar with the seperate routes to stadium, dispersal etc.

[Juice-Terry]

Aberdeen won't sell out the reduced allocation they've been given anyway, this is no different than the noise Hearts made about semi final allocation - before inevitably failing to sell their tickets. Cormack playing to the sheep gallery. As for the ends, what difference does it make? There is no on advantage gained! Seems perfectly reasonable for fans of teams that are there so often to be housed in same end where possible, ensuring people are familiar with the seperate routes to stadium, dispersal etc.

Whether or not Aberdeen actually sell out their allocation (full or reduced) is entirely besides the point. They, and everyone else playing in a national final, should have the CHANCE to sell out half of Hampden before their allocation is reduced. Disgraceful by the SPFL.

[Winston Ingram]

With the (as expected) news that SPFL will give rangers a greater allocation for the final, and not consider the proposal put forward by Aberdeen (where their allocation would be handed back if not sold and that their should be no Rangers or Celtic ends at a Neutral National stadium), is it time for action by collective clubs?

As frustrating as Saturday was, and whilst we have our own grievances just now (VAR), I can’t help but think if we had won on Saturday we’d be making the same point.

Apparently the clubs are the SPFL, so is it time for the clubs to sort this out? A collective stand from 4 or 5 bigger clubs could make change. Threaten to pull out next years competition without fair compromise for next years semi’s/final.

Neutral venue rules seem so obvious and could be the catalyst to change across our game.

It's very difficult to argue for Aberdeen to get 25k tickets when they brought 9k to the Semi. The only people missing out are the big gamers only and the day trippers. If they cannae be bothered to go to the semi, I'm struggling to see how it's justified to give them a ticket for the Final.

[LaMotta]

It's very difficult to argue for Aberdeen to get 25k tickets when they brought 9k to the Semi. The only people missing out are the big gamers only and the day trippers. If they cannae be bothered to go to the semi, I'm struggling to see how it's justified to give them a ticket for the Final.

They had a bit more than that - 11 or 12k for the semi but I take your point. Last time Aberdeen got half the stadium was the 2017 Scottish Cup Final v Celtic. They didnt actually sell out that day, although they did come fairly close. But no evidence to suggest they will sell out this time.

I dread to think what might have happened in 2016 thouhlgh if we didnt get half the stadium cheering us on. Would things have been the same? Yet we didnt take that many to the semi so did we deserve them?

[Liam89]

Completely our own faults. Can't sell 10k for semi finals and expect 25k for finals imo. We gave them the chance and they took it.

It should be fair but this is Scottish football.

I really don't understand that argument.

IT SHOULDN'T MATTER.

Finals are different from semi's. Quarters see even less in attendance, 5th rounds even less, it's an increase in attendances up to a final, everybody knows that.

It's a neutral venue it should be split 50/50. Don't pander to them by saying 'only got ourselves to blame' it's a load of pish.

[wookie70]

Completely our own faults. Can't sell 10k for semi finals and expect 25k for finals imo. We gave them the chance and they took it.

It should be fair but this is Scottish football. Why not, semi finals are not finals. When Hibs get to a final against a team with a smaller support than us but we only took 15K to the semi should we be restricted. Of course not because we will sell 30K for most finals. I agree with earlier posters and think it is time clubs started working together to level the playing field. Aberdeen wouldn't be my first choice though given they are the club that secured the ridiculous way changes are voted for in teh league. The time to do it may be before any team has entered a competition and refuse to enter unless Hampden is neutral and ticketing is equal unless agreement can be reached between the competing teams.

[Paul1642]

It's very difficult to argue for Aberdeen to get 25k tickets when they brought 9k to the Semi. The only people missing out are the big gamers only and the day trippers. If they cannae be bothered to go to the semi, I'm struggling to see how it's justified to give them a ticket for the Final.

Shouldn’t matter how many they take to the semis. It’s a neutral stadium and both teams should be given an opportunity to sell 50% (minus sponsor seats) of it and only should they fail to do lose the seats.

Fan talk of Aberdeen pulling out in protest is just ludicrous though.

[theonlywayisup]

How many tickets did we receive for the final against Celtic two years ago?

[BobbyT1875]

How many tickets did we receive for the final against Celtic two years ago?

As many as we need and didn’t sell out . Circa 17k went

[BobbyT1875]

Shouldn’t matter how many they take to the semis. It’s a neutral stadium and both teams should be given an opportunity to sell 50% (minus sponsor seats) of it and only should they fail to do lose the seats.

Fan talk of Aberdeen pulling out in protest is just ludicrous though.

What is ludicrous is hibs and other teams bending over to SFA, weedgies and SPL

[Carheenlea]

If the reasoning for doing so is to maximise financial return through the gate, then a solution may be that if clubs want a 50/50 split then those tickets are bought by the clubs on a sale/ no return basis.

In the event of an allocation not being taken up to full capacity then the gate receipts are still that of a sold out crowd and no team would have the advantage of having fans in more than half of what is a neutral stadium.

[LaMotta]

As many as we need and didn’t sell out . Circa 17k went

That's not quite right mate. We got initial allocation of 17.5k with promise of 19.5k if we sold out.

We did sell the 17.5k then sold 1500 of the additional 2000 we were allocated - so 19k total. Was in papers at the time.

[CMac1988]

I'm very much of the opinion that it should be a 50/50 split at neutral venues with pre determined time slots upon which unsold tickets are then given to the other team (given they're sold in sections of course). This whole but they only sold X for the semi is pish. Irrelevant. What was the Attendance at Ibrox in the quarters against Livingston. Despite not being neutral what determines the split for the semi? More and more people will go the closer you get to a final, doesn't matter why. Only in Scotland where we pander to two clubs does it seem to matter.

However... Aberdeen ****ed the league over when they decided to keep the voting as it is. So **** them.

[Keith_M]

I really don't understand that argument.

IT SHOULDN'T MATTER.

Finals are different from semi's. Quarters see even less in attendance, 5th rounds even less, it's an increase in attendances up to a final, everybody knows that.

It's a neutral venue it should be split 50/50. Don't pander to them by saying 'only got ourselves to blame' it's a load of pish.


This.

[18Craig75]

If Aberdeen didn’t vote in favour of keeping the 10/2 OF strangle hold on our game then we could’ve all got together and voted through a resolution to avoid this nonsense.

[Moulin Yarns]

If I've read right, rangers fans are in the west and all of the north with Aberdeen fans in the east and south. Obviously most of the sponsors etc will also be in the south but worryingly the south upper will most likely be full of rangers fans, above the Aberdeen fans.

[Winston Ingram]

How many tickets did we receive for the final against Celtic two years ago?

I think we got 19k which i felt was pretty fair due to how few we took through to the semi

[.Sean.]

If Aberdeen didn’t vote in favour of keeping the 10/2 OF strangle hold on our game then we could’ve all got together and voted through a resolution to avoid this nonsense.
Yep. **** them. If memory serves me right the vote was just after Rangers got demoted and Aberdeen got greedy and cosied up with Celtic.

[Winston Ingram]

I really don't understand that argument.

IT SHOULDN'T MATTER.

Finals are different from semi's. Quarters see even less in attendance, 5th rounds even less, it's an increase in attendances up to a final, everybody knows that.

It's a neutral venue it should be split 50/50. Don't pander to them by saying 'only got ourselves to blame' it's a load of pish.

Thanks for the capitals Liam.

I don't agree in the slightest. When ye've got season ticket holders and fans from any club who go to every single game and end up missing out on a final to give a ticket to some big game only or I fancy a day out fan, that is not a good a good thing.

I have absolutely zero sympathy for fans who don't go to games and then start moaning they've not got a ticket for a final, particularly if they can't even be bothered going to the semi.

I totally understand the authorities position on.

[Steven79]

I really don't understand that argument.

IT SHOULDN'T MATTER.

Finals are different from semi's. Quarters see even less in attendance, 5th rounds even less, it's an increase in attendances up to a final, everybody knows that.

It's a neutral venue it should be split 50/50. Don't pander to them by saying 'only got ourselves to blame' it's a load of pish.

Exactly!

Say in England we have a situation where Brentford were playing Manchester United would United get the majority of tickets and get to pick their side of Wembley?

Would they hell!

We just accept **** situations in Scotland as "That's just the way it is" well it will be till we stand up for ourselves.

The East side of Hampden is better for the likes of Aberdeen, ourselves or Hearts against a Glasgow team as we can get away easier without having to go past the majority of them.

[DH1875]

If rangers or celtic make a European final against Real or Barca would they not expect the ticket allocation to be the same?

[LaMotta]

Wonder why we always get the East End v Hearts and they get the West side? No real logic there.

[Winston Ingram]

Exactly!

Say in England we have a situation where Brentford were playing Manchester United would United get the majority of tickets and get to pick their side of Wembley?

Would they hell!

We just accept **** situations in Scotland as "That's just the way it is" well it will be till we stand up for ourselves.

The East side of Hampden is better for the likes of Aberdeen, ourselves or Hearts against a Glasgow team as we can get away easier without having to go past the majority of them.

The best way they could take a stand is if they bother to buy a ticket for the semi. If we sell out half the stadium, we will get half the stadium for the final.

I'm sure that would be preferable to 10 people and a dug standing outside Hampden with a placard or 2.

[Phil MaGlass]

To be quite honest, F, Aberdeen, they were the ones that voted against restructure when the **** were bombed out the league, what an almighty chance was thrown away for Scottish fitba, through Aberdeens greed for regular third place and a chance for extra money from Europe, that hasnt really worked out too well for them. Even my dons mates are still fuming at this. This probably wouldn't be happening either had they voted for it. So no they shouldnae get any extra.
We lost the chance to make a stand when they voted against it.

[MWHIBBIES]

Exactly!

Say in England we have a situation where Brentford were playing Manchester United would United get the majority of tickets and get to pick their side of Wembley?

Would they hell!

We just accept **** situations in Scotland as "That's just the way it is" well it will be till we stand up for ourselves.

The East side of Hampden is better for the likes of Aberdeen, ourselves or Hearts against a Glasgow team as we can get away easier without having to go past the majority of them.

I didnt say it was a good thing, but thats the way it is up here. You give them a chance to **** you and they will.

[Rumble de Thump]

It's Scottish football. It's not meant to be a fair contest. Everyone is just supposed to pretend it is and nod along in agreement while someone makes up an excuse as to why Celtic and Sevco should perpetually be given advantages over every other club.

[007]

I don't subscribe to the argument that not selling the 50% share for a semi means you shouldn't get 50% for the final. Semis and finals are not comparable in that regard. Particularly for fans like Aberdeen's who have a 300 mile round trip from Aberdeen to Hampden. No danger would as many Rangers and Celtic fans want to go to a semi if they had to travel 300 miles compared to it being on their doorstep.

When Celtic and Rangers get humped in Europe they complain that they don't don't have enough competition in the league. The reality is that they don't want the rest to improve and want every possible advantage, this being a prime example.

The number of tickets could easily be increased by 15,000 by having finals at Murrayfield but we know that doesn't suit the Glasgow-centric SFA and media that kowtow to the 2 big Glasgow clubs.

[Winston Ingram]

I don't subscribe to the argument that not selling the 50% share for a semi means you shouldn't get 50% for the final. Semis and finals are not comparable in that regard. Particularly for fans like Aberdeen's who have a 300 mile round trip from Aberdeen to Hampden. No danger would as many Rangers and Celtic fans want to go to a semi if they had to travel 300 miles compared to it being on their doorstep.

When Celtic and Rangers get humped in Europe they complain that they don't don't have enough competition in the league. The reality is that they don't want the rest to improve and want every possible advantage, this being a prime example.

The number of tickets could easily be increased by 15,000 by having finals at Murrayfield but we know that doesn't suit the Glasgow-centric SFA and media that kowtow to the 2 big Glasgow clubs.

Gotta stick up for the glory hunters

[007]

Gotta stick up for the glory hunters

Better than sticking up for Rangers and Celtic.

[Since90+2]

To be quite honest, F, Aberdeen, they were the ones that voted against restructure when the **** were bombed out the league, what an almighty chance was thrown away for Scottish fitba, through Aberdeens greed for regular third place and a chance for extra money from Europe, that hasnt really worked out too well for them. Even my dons mates are still fuming at this. This probably wouldn't be happening either had they voted for it. So no they shouldnae get any extra.
We lost the chance to make a stand when they voted against it.

If the clubs really wanted a fairer voting structure they could. Resign from the SPFL and say they are starting a new league with a new voting structure. What are the old firm going to do, run a 2 team league?

They are clearly happy enough with the current setup.

[EastStandGates]

I don't subscribe to the argument that not selling the 50% share for a semi means you shouldn't get 50% for the final. Semis and finals are not comparable in that regard. Particularly for fans like Aberdeen's who have a 300 mile round trip from Aberdeen to Hampden. No danger would as many Rangers and Celtic fans want to go to a semi if they had to travel 300 miles compared to it being on their doorstep.

When Celtic and Rangers get humped in Europe they complain that they don't don't have enough competition in the league. The reality is that they don't want the rest to improve and want every possible advantage, this being a prime example.

The number of tickets could easily be increased by 15,000 by having finals at Murrayfield but we know that doesn't suit the Glasgow-centric SFA and media that kowtow to the 2 big Glasgow clubs.

TBF Celtic and Rangers would take 12,000 for a league game up there, so would easily shift that for a semi-final.

I think the issue is, Hibs and Aberdeen have failed to sell out finals previously. Our crowd against Celtic was pretty poor in the league cup final, and can also mind Aberdeen not selling out, probably against Celtic too (Tom Rogic game maybe?). With the way the North Stand is and can't be segregated I guess the SPFL/Hampden run the risk of Aberdeen selling half of block of 500 tickets, meaning the other 3500 will be empty as the 500 will need those turnstiles, bogs and pie-stands. Think that's the reasoning Hearts gave for not getting any of the North on Sunday there. Which, despite their moaning, was the correct decision as they didn't even sell out the East!

Regarding the clubs having enough of the SPFL - that would mean having enough of themselves, as its the clubs that make up the SPFL!

[7Hero]

I thought this was about taking a stand against the blatant cheating in our game highlighted again by the 4th official who was clearly a very happy bunny watching his beloved team scoring against hearts. Id prefer that was a fight we all took to the SFA but seems our clubs are too spineless to do anything about it and clearly the authorities are not even trying to hide it anymore..

on the original subject :wink:

Split the allocation evenly and if aberdeen don't sell it then release those tickets to the worlds most succesful football club, as long as someone in the GFA is able to manage that , which is probably doubtful..

[Rumble de Thump]

Gotta stick up for the glory hunters

I thought Sevco and Celtc fans were the glory hunters.

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

I thought Sevco and Celtc fans were the glory hunters.

They are. 50/50 split at all finals until it’s clear one team can’t shift all their tickets, only then should left over tickets be available to their opponents. Fairly sure this was the case when we played Ross County in the league cup a few years back? Why is it different when it’s the uglies?


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[Liberal Hibby]

TBF Celtic and Rangers would take 12,000 for a league game up there, so would easily shift that for a semi-final.

I think the issue is, Hibs and Aberdeen have failed to sell out finals previously. Our crowd against Celtic was pretty poor in the league cup final, and can also mind Aberdeen not selling out, probably against Celtic too (Tom Rogic game maybe?). With the way the North Stand is and can't be segregated I guess the SPFL/Hampden run the risk of Aberdeen selling half of block of 500 tickets, meaning the other 3500 will be empty as the 500 will need those turnstiles, bogs and pie-stands. Think that's the reasoning Hearts gave for not getting any of the North on Sunday there. Which, despite their moaning, was the correct decision as they didn't even sell out the East!

Regarding the clubs having enough of the SPFL - that would mean having enough of themselves, as its the clubs that make up the SPFL!

Hampden needs to be redeveloped to make it easier to split the North stand. Even without that the South stand is easier to split and if one team has to have the whole of the north then allocate more to the other in the south.

[Eyrie]

They are. 50/50 split at all finals until it’s clear one team can’t shift all their tickets, only then should left over tickets be available to their opponents. Fairly sure this was the case when we played Ross County in the league cup a few years back? Why is it different when it’s the uglies?

You've already answered your own question.



If the clubs really wanted a fairer voting structure they could. Resign from the SPFL and say they are starting a new league with a new voting structure. What are the old firm going to do, run a 2 team league?

They are clearly happy enough with the current setup.
I've been in favour of that for years. And not letting the Ugly Sisters in afterwards either.