Pen incidents Hibs v Dons, Hearts v Sevco

[NAE NOOKIE]

Just seen both incidents side by side. They are practically identical, the SPFL need to explain why the one in our game wasn't looked at and the one in the Hearts game was.

The film is there for all to see ... Vente gets to the ball first and falls over the diving keeper, not reviewed. The Sevco player gets to the ball first and falls over the diving keeper .. reviewed and penalty awarded. In both cases Vente and the Sevco player had no chance of keeping the ball in play after their touch on the ball, so that isn't a factor.

This isn't even a question of VAR reviewing the same incident and coming to different conclusions. This is VAR handed two incidents almost identical and deciding one wasn't worthy of consideration but the other was.

On Monday morning Hibs and Hearts should get together and publicly ask the same question of the SPFL .... If the incident in the Hibs game wasn't even worthy of review why was the one in the Hearts game?

We all know the bloody answer ... corrupt to the core.

[davym7062]

the only differnce was ours was near the touchline apart fi that.... both are pens imo

[Criswell]

The answer is simple. VAR is designed to benefit one team and one team only. It stinks to high heaven.

[Kentao1985]

Another similar incident checked by VAR and a spot kick was given.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231106/093ff4473f687bde14b6a869d1d2037b.jpg

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[DanishJohn]

Just seen both incidents side by side. They are practically identical, the SPFL need to explain why the one in our game wasn't looked at and the one in the Hearts game was.

The film is there for all to see ... Vente gets to the ball first and falls over the diving keeper, not reviewed. The Sevco player gets to the ball first and falls over the diving keeper .. reviewed and penalty awarded. In both cases Vente and the Sevco player had no chance of keeping the ball in play after their touch on the ball, so that isn't a factor.

This isn't even a question of VAR reviewing the same incident and coming to different conclusions. This is VAR handed two incidents almost identical and deciding one wasn't worthy of consideration but the other was.

On Monday morning Hibs and Hearts should get together and publicly ask the same question of the SPFL .... If the incident in the Hibs game wasn't even worthy of review why was the one in the Hearts game?

We all know the bloody answer ... corrupt to the core.

Nookie

A great post and indeed what I was thinking.

Only one thing I would say. Now I should add my head is still a bit foggy due to a mixture of rage, hurt ,bewilderment and feeling very low about losing that semi.

Walsh immediately pointed to the spot. I can't remember it even being reviewed by VAR.
If I'm wrong I stand corrected but I think we all agree on the huge suspicion of cheating in our Scottish game.

This cannot be allowed to continue. (Still rageing as I type)

[Kato]

Nookie

A great post and indeed what I was thinking.

Only one thing I would say. Now I should add my head is still a bit foggy due to a mixture of rage, hurt ,bewilderment and feeling very low about losing that semi.

Walsh immediately pointed to the spot. I can't remember it even being reviewed by VAR.
If I'm wrong I stand corrected but I think we all agree on the huge suspicion of cheating in our Scottish game.

This cannot be allowed to continue. (Still rageing as I type)He points straight to spot.

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[plhibs]

Another similar incident checked by VAR and a spot kick was given.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231106/093ff4473f687bde14b6a869d1d2037b.jpg

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Duk at Aberdeen, i think,

[StockbridgeGoat]

The answer is simple. VAR is designed to benefit one team and one team only. It stinks to high heaven.
This sums it up. Scottish football is corrupt. Always has been and always will be.

[DaveF]

Both are penalties. Neither keeper gets a touch on the ball.

[matty_f]

Both are penalties. Neither keeper gets a touch on the ball.

I made a strong case for it not being a penalty when we recorded the podcast yesterday morning, but I go completely against my argument now that the Rangers one is given as a penalty.

My view was that Duk's shouldn't have been given against us, and that quilt we want consistency, you don't want consistently wrong decisions. But if we're now looking at 3 similar i instances and only our penalty isn't awarded, then that's clearly an issue.

So on the basis of the other awards, we should have had a penalty.

[O'Rourke3]

The incident Saturday would be cleared up by the discussion between Lodge Member Beaton and the brother on the end of the line. If Beaton says he had a clear view and there's no need, no review takes place. Bobby Madden gave that one away on Sportsound a couple of weeks back and VAR won't then challenge. It should, but it won't.

And by the way, I think what went of after the goal was Beaton asking his brother "Find me an angle, I don't care how long it takes but find it!"

[I'm Spartacus]

There's also the Glasgow bias laugh that the Hearts penalty was initially given as a dive and a red card, the default is always in Glasgow's favour.

Scottish football is a complete joke.

[DH1875]

Like how Arsenal have called out VAR and the officials down south. We should do the same.

[wookie70]

I made a strong case for it not being a penalty when we recorded the podcast yesterday morning, but I go completely against my argument now that the Rangers one is given as a penalty.

My view was that Duk's shouldn't have been given against us, and that quilt we want consistency, you don't want consistently wrong decisions. But if we're now looking at 3 similar i instances and only our penalty isn't awarded, then that's clearly an issue.

So on the basis of the other awards, we should have had a penalty.

Duk's was nothing like the other two as Marshall made no contact at all before Duk was already on the ground. Booking to Duk should have been the verdict there. The other two are stonewall pens

[Chorley Hibee]

Like how Arsenal have called out VAR and the officials down south. We should do the same.

Afraid not, Easter Road is full of cowards at boardroom level, not wanting to upset the status quo.

We'll continue to bow down like we always do.

[bod]

Like how Arsenal have called out VAR and the officials down south. We should do the same.

Can’t mind arsenal calling VAR out when it went in their favour

[BlackSheep]

Just seen both incidents side by side. They are practically identical, the SPFL need to explain why the one in our game wasn't looked at and the one in the Hearts game was.

The film is there for all to see ... Vente gets to the ball first and falls over the diving keeper, not reviewed. The Sevco player gets to the ball first and falls over the diving keeper .. reviewed and penalty awarded. In both cases Vente and the Sevco player had no chance of keeping the ball in play after their touch on the ball, so that isn't a factor.

This isn't even a question of VAR reviewing the same incident and coming to different conclusions. This is VAR handed two incidents almost identical and deciding one wasn't worthy of consideration but the other was.

On Monday morning Hibs and Hearts should get together and publicly ask the same question of the SPFL .... If the incident in the Hibs game wasn't even worthy of review why was the one in the Hearts game?

We all know the bloody answer ... corrupt to the core.

I totally agree but i also have an answer to the rhetorical question you pose..... and its that 2 different referees made the decisions, thats the difference... Beaton is so full of himself that he doesn't ask for a review, whereas Nick Walsh took the option of the review.

[lyonhibs]

Having seen the slo-mo of ours, I can see why it wasn't given, other similar incidents notwithstanding

[Kato]

Having seen the slo-mo of ours, I can see why it wasn't given, other similar incidents notwithstandingWhy?

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[LaMotta]

I totally agree but i also have an answer to the rhetorical question you pose..... and its that 2 different referees made the decisions, thats the difference... Beaton is so full of himself that he doesn't ask for a review, whereas Nick Walsh took the option of the review.

Walsh doesnt get to choose whether to take the option - once the VAR official ( Collum) says review then he has to check the screen.

Beaton never got a call from our VAR official.

[Smartie]

Having seen the slo-mo of ours, I can see why it wasn't given, other similar incidents notwithstanding

I think I'd have been more on board with the decision not to allow ours had the ref chosen to view a slo mo and come to that decision. I'd have disagreed, but at least if it had been scrutinised then the decision would have been more credible.

It's the fact that Sevco have the whistle blown almost before the foul has been committed and we don't even get ours looked at that is one of the weekend's contributions towards me being all but done with Scottish football.

[Tyler Durden]

I'll go against the grain here but Rangers one was a penalty and ours was not. It's also not really a VAR issue.

Let's take ours first. Vente knocks it past the goalie and Roos makes some contact with him. It's marginal contact - Roos doesn't go into to Vente with any real momentum or contact that impacts Vente. Roos is virtually stationary. Vente has both feet planted on the ground after the contact and then he leaps in the air. He dives (as he should).

The replay is on the "How very Hibs" thread. I genuinely cannot believe people watch that and think it's a penalty.


In the Rangers example, Zander Clark is coming out towards Danilo at some pace. He initiates contact with Danilo and makes it an easy decision for the ref.

In both examples the ref/linos see the contact. Beaton decides it's not a penalty. The VAR has nothing to report that Beaton/the linesman have not themselves seen. So there is no need for Beaton to review.

In the Rangers example it's the same. Ref sees the incident - VAR has nothing different/new to show him.

The Duk example last season was different - the VAR asked the ref to review when there was no need and yet somehow he still gave a pen.

[jeffers]

I'll go against the grain here but Rangers one was a penalty and ours was not. It's also not really a VAR issue.

Let's take ours first. Vente knocks it past the goalie and Roos makes some contact with him. It's marginal contact - Roos doesn't go into to Vente with any real momentum or contact that impacts Vente. Roos is virtually stationary. Vente has both feet planted on the ground after the contact and then he leaps in the air. He dives (as he should).

I'll update the post shortly with the replay which shows this (the one from behind the goal is misleading).

In the Rangers example, Zander Clark is coming out towards Danilo at some pace. He initiates contact with Danilo and makes it an easy decision for the ref.

In both examples the ref/linos see the contact. Beaton decides it's not a penalty. The VAR has nothing to report that Beaton/the linesman have not themselves seen. So there is no need for Beaton to review.

In the Rangers example it's the same. Ref sees the incident - VAR has nothing different/new to show him.

The Duk example last season was different - the VAR asked the ref to review when there was no need and yet somehow he still gave a pen.

Thats how I see it other than there was enough that VAR should have reviewed our claim, but no penalty should have been awarded. Though it’s a farce that there is no consistency.

[Tyler Durden]

Thats how I see it other than there was enough that VAR should have reviewed our claim, but no penalty should have been awarded. Though it’s a farce that there is no consistency.

I think if Beaton gives the penalty, it would similarly not go to VAR. The ref/lino has a good view on it, he's seen what happened and decided no penalty.

I would agree with what Naismith said yesterday........ if it's Rangers, there instinct is to give a penalty. If it's us, they want to be 100% sure.

[Donegal Hibby]

Can’t mind arsenal calling VAR out when it went in their favour

Very bad losers just :greengrin

[greenginger]

Having seen the slo-mo of ours, I can see why it wasn't given, other similar incidents notwithstanding

I’ve not seen a the penalty incident.

Which highlights is it on.

[Smartie]

I'll go against the grain here but Rangers one was a penalty and ours was not. It's also not really a VAR issue.

Let's take ours first. Vente knocks it past the goalie and Roos makes some contact with him. It's marginal contact - Roos doesn't go into to Vente with any real momentum or contact that impacts Vente. Roos is virtually stationary. Vente has both feet planted on the ground after the contact and then he leaps in the air. He dives (as he should).

The replay is on the "How very Hibs" thread. I genuinely cannot believe people watch that and think it's a penalty.


In the Rangers example, Zander Clark is coming out towards Danilo at some pace. He initiates contact with Danilo and makes it an easy decision for the ref.

In both examples the ref/linos see the contact. Beaton decides it's not a penalty. The VAR has nothing to report that Beaton/the linesman have not themselves seen. So there is no need for Beaton to review.

In the Rangers example it's the same. Ref sees the incident - VAR has nothing different/new to show him.

The Duk example last season was different - the VAR asked the ref to review when there was no need and yet somehow he still gave a pen.

The Vente one is quite stunningly different at different angles.

From behind the goal it's absolutely a stonewaller but as you say, from the clip on the "How very Hibs" thread it looks somewhat different.

[wookie70]

The Vente one is quite stunningly different at different angles.

From behind the goal it's absolutely a stonewaller but as you say, from the clip on the "How very Hibs" thread it looks somewhat different. View both in tandem. Absolute stonewaller

[MWHIBBIES]

Can’t mind arsenal calling VAR out when it went in their favour

Have you read the statement? It quite clearly states that the officiating across the league is crap. Until fans and clubs stop being incredibly dence, put colours aside and band together, nothing will change.

Arsenal are right to ask questions, both VAR officials in that match are on the pay roll of Newcastles owners. It's a conflict of interest.

[Donegal Hibby]

Obviously Newcastle United weren't paying the officials enough. 😂
https://youtu.be/QhVK4SCd6D4?si=pTwdlthqOK6sQFZt

[MWHIBBIES]

Obviously Newcastle United weren't paying the officials enough. 😂
https://youtu.be/QhVK4SCd6D4?si=pTwdlthqOK6sQFZt

The statement was about the standard of officiating. Quite clear from this, the goal and bruno elbowing Jorginho that the standard was dreadful.

Do you think 2 referees who work for Newcastle's owners on the side should be allowed to officiate Newcastle matches? Are you that sportwashed?

[HoboHarry]

Can’t mind arsenal calling VAR out when it went in their favour
That's not the point though, every club everywhere can and has been guilty of double standards. Arsenal are 100% correct to be angry about Newcastle's goal being allowed to stand. Between the field and studio there are 6 officials and multiple camera angles and they still got it horrendously wrong.

[Donegal Hibby]

The statement was about the standard of officiating. Quite clear from this, the goal and bruno elbowing Jorginho that the standard was dreadful.

Do you think 2 referees who work for Newcastle's owners on the side should be allowed to officiate Newcastle matches? Are you that sportwashed?

Bruno could have seen red though imo so should Havertz for a tackle that was late , high and dangerous too.
On the goal .
Is the whole of the ball out ? Inconclusive.
Is Gordon offside ? . Inconclusive.
Does Joelinton foul the player ? Debatable.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13001905/ref-watch-it-was-a-push-should-newcastles-winner-against-arsenal-have-stood

[HoboHarry]

Bruno could have seen red though imo so should Havertz for a tackle that was late , high and dangerous too.
On the goal .
Is the whole of the ball out ? Inconclusive.
Is Gordon offside ? . Inconclusive.
Does Joelinton foul the player ? Debatable.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13001905/ref-watch-it-was-a-push-should-newcastles-winner-against-arsenal-have-stood
Personally I didn't think there was anything debatable about the push. Straight arm and blatant.

[MWHIBBIES]

Bruno could have seen red though imo so should Havertz for a tackle that was late , high and dangerous too.
On the goal .
Is the whole of the ball out ? Inconclusive.
Is Gordon offside ? . Inconclusive.
Does Joelinton foul the player ? Debatable.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13001905/ref-watch-it-was-a-push-should-newcastles-winner-against-arsenal-have-stood

Bruno was a straight red, no debate. It's a elbow to the bloody head. What is debatable about that?

It was a clear, 2 handed shove on Gabriel.

Do you think referees who are on the pay roll of Newcastle owners should referee Newcastle?

[Hibernian Verse]

Bruno was a straight red, no debate. It's a elbow to the bloody head. What is debatable about that?

It was a clear, 2 handed shove on Gabriel.

Do you think referees who are on the pay roll of Newcastle owners should referee Newcastle?

This is going over my head, what's the story?

[MWHIBBIES]

This is going over my head, what's the story?

VAR officials in the weekends game were in Saudi Arabia refereeing a few weeks ago. A league owned and run by Newcastles ownership.

[greenlex]

VAR officials in the weekends game were in Saudi Arabia refereeing a few weeks ago. A league owned and run by Newcastles ownership.

They are also officiating in the Premiership which is part owned by Arsenal.

[MWHIBBIES]

They are also officiating in the Premiership which is part owned by Arsenal.

Genius

[Donegal Hibby]

Bruno was a straight red, no debate. It's a elbow to the bloody head. What is debatable about that?

It was a clear, 2 handed shove on Gabriel.

Do you think referees who are on the pay roll of Newcastle owners should referee Newcastle?

Havertz was a straight red then too , also no debate .

Some folk will think it's a foul , some won't . This has already been said on Skysports too ! .

Was the referees in Newcastle United game against arsenal on there pay roll , you got proof of this ?.

Two out of the 3 incidents leading up to the Newcastle United goal ARE inconclusive which Arteta was whinging about, the joelinton one could have been given depending on how you see it . Abit like our penalty claim against dons on here as some fans see it as a foul and some don't .

I've watched arsenal dish out it's fair share of beatings to Newcastle United over the years , it's a shame they can't conduct themselves in the same manner when the shoes on the other foot for a change! .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12716047/Arsenal-stand-captain-Jorginho-slammed-bad-loser-fuming-Newcastle-skipper-Jamal-Lascelles-calls-ex-Chelsea-stars-unacceptable-behaviour-bitter-controversial-loss.html

[MWHIBBIES]

Havertz was a straight red then too , also no debate .

Some folk will think it's a foul , some won't . This has already been said on Skysports too ! .

Was the referees in Newcastle United game against arsenal on there pay roll , you got proof of this ?.

Two out of the 3 incidents leading up to the Newcastle United goal ARE inconclusive which Arteta was whinging about, the joelinton one could have been given depending on how you see it . Abit like our penalty claim against dons on here as some fans see it as a foul and some don't .

I've watched arsenal dish out it's fair share of beatings to Newcastle United over the years , it's a shame they can't conduct themselves in the same manner when the shoes on the other foot for a change! .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12716047/Arsenal-stand-captain-Jorginho-slammed-bad-loser-fuming-Newcastle-skipper-Jamal-Lascelles-calls-ex-Chelsea-stars-unacceptable-behaviour-bitter-controversial-loss.html



Yes, after being elbowed in the head, you should shake hands because ''sportsmanship''. What year is this honestly. ''you're angry about being assaulted, thats bitter mate''.

Havertz was a very poor challenge, could've absolutely been a red. Its not an elbow to the head, its an actual attempt to win the ball, despite being reckless and late. The Arsenal statement is about refereeing standards. Surely if you think Havertz should've been off, and wasn't, you agree with Arsenals statement?

2 handed pushes to the back aren't subjective, its a clear foul :faf:

I know you're not stupid. You post some great stuff on Hibs. So I'll ask again, do you think that Andy Madley, and Stuart Burt, Saturdays VAR officials, who both freelance in the Saudi league, owned by Newcastles owners, and get crazy money to do so, should be allowed to officiate Newcastle games? Its about as clear a conflict of interest as possible.


Refereeing standards are absolutely horrific across the board. Mental anyone denies that. VAR has shown them up as a joke. The refereeing in our semi final was a joke IMO. It was the same in the Arsenal Newcastle match.

[Kato]

2 handed pushes to the back aren't subjective, its a clear foul :faf:



Not if its a League Cup Final against Celtc.

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[MWHIBBIES]

Not if its a League Cup Final against Celtc.

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True. That is one we dont talk about enough

[lyonhibs]

Have you read the statement? It quite clearly states that the officiating across the league is crap. Until fans and clubs stop being incredibly dence, put colours aside and band together, nothing will change.

Arsenal are right to ask questions, both VAR officials in that match are on the pay roll of Newcastles owners. It's a conflict of interest.

The irony of you spelling "dense" wrong is a thing of beauty.

How do the VAR officials take their coin from the Saudi PIF though?

Hadn't read that, adds a layer of intrigue to that situation.

[Torto7]

There are still Hibs fans that think it's purely down to the poor standard of officiating.:faf:

[MWHIBBIES]

The irony of you spelling "dense" wrong is a thing of beauty.

How do the VAR officials take their coin from the Saudi PIF though?

Hadn't read that, adds a layer of intrigue to that situation.

:faf:

I can take that. Typing on phone at work. Mistakes happen.

They work for a league that the PIF own 75% of.

[WeeRussell]

For info - they’ve just shown the goal pre-spurs game against Chelsea.

Ball shown to still “clearly” be in play after finding the correct angle.

Anthony Gordon appears to be onside.

The pundits are discussing the foul. Sturridge (I think) says he didn’t think it was a foul at the time, now thinks it could be, but says it’s a close one.

(I happen to think it should’ve been a foul)

Incidentally the only place I’ve seen any mention of VAR officials being paid by Newcastle owners is on here. It doesn’t seem to be what the arsenal statement (which Neville called really poor and quite dangerous, along with the Liverpool one from a few weeks ago) is about, although haven’t yet found the full thing to read.

[Stokesy's on fire]

Another similar incident checked by VAR and a spot kick was given.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231106/093ff4473f687bde14b6a869d1d2037b.jpg

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AbVARdeen. Var is always with them

[Stokesy's on fire]

There's also the Glasgow bias laugh that the Hearts penalty was initially given as a dive and a red card, the default is always in Glasgow's favour.

Scottish football is a complete joke.

And Aberdeens...

[MWHIBBIES]

For info - they’ve just shown the goal pre-spurs game against Chelsea.

Ball shown to still “clearly” be in play after finding the correct angle.

Anthony Gordon appears to be onside.

The pundits are discussing the foul. Sturridge (I think) says he didn’t think it was a foul at the time, now thinks it could be, but says it’s a close one.

(I happen to think it should’ve been a foul)

Incidentally the only place I’ve seen any mention of VAR officials being paid by Newcastle owners is on here. It doesn’t seem to be what the arsenal statement (which Neville called really poor and quite dangerous, along with the Liverpool one from a few weeks ago) is about, although haven’t yet found the full thing to read.

Arsenal can hardly come out and say the ref is corrupt without evidence. They were right to call our a dreadful performance. I can say whatever I want on the subject, and I think refs doing side jobs for premier league owners is a conflict of interest. It's all over twitter, and is backed up by articles on the subject. They worked with Michael Oliver on games in Saudi Arabia and UAE.

Neville has shown himself to be a biased fool during the Liverpool incident, and this one. Embarrassing he can't call the level of incompetence out. Absolutely nothing dangerous about Klopp and Arteta wanting better refs. Ferguson called a ref unfit and fat once. That's dangerous and abusive.
Neville of course didn't say a word against his "gaffer"

[bod]

Have you read the statement? It quite clearly states that the officiating across the league is crap. Until fans and clubs stop being incredibly dence, put colours aside and band together, nothing will change.

Arsenal are right to ask questions, both VAR officials in that match are on the pay roll of Newcastles owners. It's a conflict of interest.

Just saw MOTD I don’t bother reading statements.
I took it he wasn’t happy about the push for the goal but never mentioned that IMO the arsenal player was lucky to get a yellow when it could’ve been red .

[Donegal Hibby]

Yes, after being elbowed in the head, you should shake hands because ''sportsmanship''. What year is this honestly. ''you're angry about being assaulted, thats bitter mate''.

Havertz was a very poor challenge, could've absolutely been a red. Its not an elbow to the head, its an actual attempt to win the ball, despite being reckless and late. The Arsenal statement is about refereeing standards. Surely if you think Havertz should've been off, and wasn't, you agree with Arsenals statement?

2 handed pushes to the back aren't subjective, its a clear foul :faf:

I know you're not stupid. You post some great stuff on Hibs. So I'll ask again, do you think that Andy Madley, and Stuart Burt, Saturdays VAR officials, who both freelance in the Saudi league, owned by Newcastles owners, and get crazy money to do so, should be allowed to officiate Newcastle games? Its about as clear a conflict of interest as possible.


Refereeing standards are absolutely horrific across the board. Mental anyone denies that. VAR has shown them up as a joke. The refereeing in our semi final was a joke IMO. It was the same in the Arsenal Newcastle match.

The Newcastle player was Jamaal lascelles who had nothing to do with the elbow incident , it was one Captain showing respect to the other by a customary handshake after a game . If he didn't want to shake hands with Bruno I'd understand that though it wasn't and he acted very badly on it by refusing to shake hands which I think was more down to losing . Easy seeing why he's only a stand in captain TBH.

Both Bruno and Havertz could/ maybe should have seen red cards though the end outcome was no team gained any advantage from the situation which was a fair enough outcome imo .

I don't agree with what arsenal are saying on it as Arteta has stated there are many reasons why it wasn't a goal which there isn't , there was 3 incidents on the Newcastle goal and all 3 aren't clear one way or the other .(A) Was the ball entirely out which it had to be ? , (B) Was Gordon offside? and (C) was it a foul ? . First two I'd be fuming with if it cost Newcastle the goal and the last I don't know if Joelinton does actually pushed Gabriel though he's going to win the ball and does have two hands on the arsenal boys back . Honestly it's one that could go either way imo .

I knew nothing about Andy Madley or Stuart Burt refereeing in Saudi till now and if there's a conflict of interest it definitely should be looked at by the English FA though I still don't know what they done that was that bad in the Newcastle v arsenal game tbh .
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67323707

[HoboHarry]

VAR officials in the weekends game were in Saudi Arabia refereeing a few weeks ago. A league owned and run by Newcastles ownership.

We're the referees personally invited to officiate by the Saudis on the side or were the appointments made via the English FA?

[MWHIBBIES]

We're the referees personally invited to officiate by the Saudis on the side or were the appointments made via the English FA?

It's nothing to do with the FA I don't think.

[MWHIBBIES]

The Newcastle player was Jamaal lascelles who had nothing to do with the elbow incident , it was one Captain showing respect to the other by a customary handshake after a game . If he didn't want to shake hands with Bruno I'd understand that though it wasn't and he acted very badly on it by refusing to shake hands which I think was more down to losing . Easy seeing why he's only a stand in captain TBH.

Both Bruno and Havertz could/ maybe should have seen red cards though the end outcome was no team gained any advantage from the situation which was a fair enough outcome imo .

I don't agree with what arsenal are saying on it as Arteta has stated there are many reasons why it wasn't a goal which there isn't , there was 3 incidents on the Newcastle goal and all 3 aren't clear one way or the other .(A) Was the ball entirely out which it had to be ? , (B) Was Gordon offside? and (C) was it a foul ? . First two I'd be fuming with if it cost Newcastle the goal and the last I don't know if Joelinton does actually pushed Gabriel though he's going to win the ball and does have two hands on the arsenal boys back . Honestly it's one that could go either way imo .

I knew nothing about Andy Madley or Stuart Burt refereeing in Saudi till now and if there's a conflict of interest it definitely should be looked at by the English FA though I still don't know what they done that was that bad in the Newcastle v arsenal game tbh .
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67323707

I wouldn't shake hands with anyone on a team where they elbowed me in the head off the ball. **** this idea of sportsmanship. Outdated crap.

It's amazing how you cannot admit an elbow to the head off the ball is a nailed on red card 100 times out of 100. It's clear as day. Stop saying maybe and could. He should have been off. Waste of time conversation this. Elbows and freelancing for Newcastle owners - okay. Not shaking hands - hang Jorginho.

[Since90+2]

Arteta doing the classic deflection tactic. Managers have done it for years to take eyes off an under par performance.

What was it against Newcastle, one shot on target? If that's correct he's managed to take the narrative away from that, and himself, and have people talk about VAR.

[MWHIBBIES]

Arteta doing the classic deflection tactic. Managers have done it for years to take eyes off an under par performance.

What was it against Newcastle, one shot on target? If that's correct he's managed to take the narrative away from that, and himself, and have people talk about VAR.


Or he is correctly annoyed about 2 very poor decisions against his team.

Would Fenlon complaining about the 2 bad decisions in 2012 have been a deflection tactic? Or would a red card at 0-0 actually have changed the game?

[supermcginn]

Arteta doing the classic deflection tactic. Managers have done it for years to take eyes off an under par performance.

What was it against Newcastle, one shot on target? If that's correct he's managed to take the narrative away from that, and himself, and have people talk about VAR.

Yeah they were very poor, spent a fortune again in the summer and will still finish miles behind Man City and they might not even finish as the top team in North London. Arsenal and Arteta have completely embarrassed themselves and tarnished the reputation of a once great club.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yeah they were very poor, spent a fortune again in the summer and will still finish miles behind Man City and they might not even finish as the top team in North London. Arsenal and Arteta have completely embarrassed themselves and tarnished the reputation of a once great club.

:faf:

You crack me up. You should try and hide it better though. It's quite obvious.

[GreenCastle]

Another similar incident checked by VAR and a spot kick was given.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231106/093ff4473f687bde14b6a869d1d2037b.jpg

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This was less of a penalty than our penalty on Saturday.

It completely changed that game as was right before half time then we were awful 2nd half in Aberdeen.

Scottish football officials are awful and VAR has just highlighted how bad they are - don’t trust the system at all especially with the west coast bias.

[CentreLine]

How on earth did this thread end up discussing what is, in footballing terms, a foreign country with different rules on what club representatives can and cannot say about the game’s officials?

[Donegal Hibby]

Or he is correctly annoyed about 2 very poor decisions against his team.

Would Fenlon complaining about the 2 bad decisions in 2012 have been a deflection tactic? Or would a red card at 0-0 actually have changed the game?

Now it's 2 decisions yet Arteta was complaining that there was many reasons it wasn't a goal which is now being said the ball didn't go out and Gordon wasn't offside. The two poor decisions is the challenge from joelinton and the elbow which probably should have been a red just like Havertz was !

It's not as big a scandal now that Arteta tried to make out it was in ' We were robbed ' . He used the word embarrassing a lot in his interview and that's exactly what he's done to himself. Even ex arsenal player Keown said he should have taken longer out before doing the interview. Newcastle won and that's it , time arsenal moved on and stop throwing there toys out of the pram like a spoilt kid ! .

[MWHIBBIES]

Now it's 2 decisions yet Arteta was complaining that there was many reasons it wasn't a goal which is now being said the ball didn't go out and Gordon wasn't offside. The two poor decisions is the challenge from joelinton and the elbow which probably should have been a red just like Havertz was !

It's not as big a scandal now that Arteta tried to make out it was in ' We were robbed ' . He used the word embarrassing a lot in his interview and that's exactly what he's done to himself. Even ex arsenal player Keown said he should have taken longer out before doing the interview. Newcastle won and that's it , time arsenal moved on and stop throwing there toys out of the pram like a spoilt kid ! .

The red card and the goal. Two quite impactful decisions.

Teams are quite justified to complain when a referee majorly impacts the game with incorrect decisions. Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

Great. About 20 people have come out and said Arteta is spot on. I don't need their opinions to back up mine. Glad we've managed to get to a off the ball elbow in the head "probably" should be a red card. Jesus wept.

It's a pretty damn big scandal when you consider VAR officials are on Newcastle owners payroll, as I've said multiple times now.

[Donegal Hibby]

The red card and the goal. Two quite impactful decisions.

Teams are quite justified to complain when a referee majorly impacts the game with incorrect decisions. Why is that so difficult for you to accept?

Great. About 20 people have come out and said Arteta is spot on. I don't need their opinions to back up mine. Glad we've managed to get to a off the ball elbow in the head "probably" should be a red card. Jesus wept.

It's a pretty damn big scandal when you consider VAR officials are on Newcastle owners payroll, as I've said multiple times now.

I take it your abit of a Gunners fan as your only looking at it one way , yes Bruno could and probably should have been sent off for an elbow though if that's the case Havertz should also have seen red too or is it just because your allegiance to arsenal you don't think he should have been for what was a horrendous tackle? If both players had got what was probably deserved both teams would have been down to 10 men and there's no advantage or impact to either club.

The poll on the article I put up on wither the goal should have stood was 54% it shouldn't and 46% it should and that was probably with the two other incidents in question too on it A . IS BALL OUT OF PLAY , B WAS GORDON OFFSIDE both of which are now being said to be correct calls even though Arteta thinks they were disgraceful and embarrassing!. Jamie Carragher didn't think it was a foul as others do too . It's not as clear cut as your making it out to be as opinions are mixed on it apart from you and Arteta of course 😂. It's one that could go either way and thankfully it went in favour of the home team .

I don't know did the English FA send the official out to referee in Saudi , who picked them for that particular game though I still fail to see what all the dodgy decisions were in it ? . We are basically down to one decision now and even that's got opinions split. Whatever are Arteta's many reasons to be upset the bottom line is if they scored two goals they win the game though I think they only had one shot on target the whole game which is something that's probably down to him as there manager.

Arsenal have had many decisions go there way over the years that could have went the other way against clubs though I never heard them complaining as much then . I think a large chunk of arsenal reaction , refusing to shake hands , manager complaining about decisions that officials got right boils down to them being basically bad losers.

[HoboHarry]

It's nothing to do with the FA I don't think.
The FA allow their contracted elite level referees to swan off and do homers? Seriously? I'd like to see a credible link to back that up.

[Stokesy's on fire]

This was less of a penalty than our penalty on Saturday.

It completely changed that game as was right before half time then we were awful 2nd half in Aberdeen.

Scottish football officials are awful and VAR has just highlighted how bad they are - don’t trust the system at all especially with the west coast bias.



West coast Bias? Yes thats a thing but the one team that has gained so much from VAR is Aberdeen Football club.

[Since90+2]

The FA allow their contracted elite level referees to swan off and do homers? Seriously? I'd like to see a credible link to back that up.

Exactly. Of course they'll be aware of it, ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

[MWHIBBIES]

Exactly. Of course they'll be aware of it, ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Of course they'll be aware of it. They don't control them 24/7 though. They get paid separately by the Saudis.

[Since90+2]

Of course they'll be aware of it. They don't control them 24/7 though. They get paid separately by the Saudis.

Most employment contracts state whether or not you allowed to take on other paid employment in the same industry. I'd be surprised if the FA are any different, so they would have say over whether or not it is permitted, or to use your word, control over it.

[HoboHarry]

Of course they'll be aware of it. They don't control them 24/7 though. They get paid separately by the Saudis.
Show us a credible source for what you are stating. Don't believe that for a moment.

[easty]

For me it's a clear foul for the Newcastle goal, but if you're going to start questioning the impartiality of the VAR officials based on that incident, then you have to ask why they wouldn't have sent off Havertz in the first half? That could easily have been a red, and was the first major incident of the game. Why would the officials (who want their "other bosses" team to win) not have sent him off when given an easy opportunity?

[MWHIBBIES]

I take it your abit of a Gunners fan as your only looking at it one way , yes Bruno could and probably should have been sent off for an elbow though if that's the case Havertz should also have seen red too or is it just because your allegiance to arsenal you don't think he should have been for what was a horrendous tackle? If both players had got what was probably deserved both teams would have been down to 10 men and there's no advantage or impact to either club.

The poll on the article I put up on wither the goal should have stood was 54% it shouldn't and 46% it should and that was probably with the two other incidents in question too on it A . IS BALL OUT OF PLAY , B WAS GORDON OFFSIDE both of which are now being said to be correct calls even though Arteta thinks they were disgraceful and embarrassing!. Jamie Carragher didn't think it was a foul as others do too . It's not as clear cut as your making it out to be as opinions are mixed on it apart from you and Arteta of course 😂. It's one that could go either way and thankfully it went in favour of the home team .

I don't know did the English FA send the official out to referee in Saudi , who picked them for that particular game though I still fail to see what all the dodgy decisions were in it ? . We are basically down to one decision now and even that's got opinions split. Whatever are Arteta's many reasons to be upset the bottom line is if they scored two goals they win the game though I think they only had one shot on target the whole game which is something that's probably down to him as there manager.

Arsenal have had many decisions go there way over the years that could have went the other way against clubs though I never heard them complaining as much then . I think a large chunk of arsenal reaction , refusing to shake hands , manager complaining about decisions that officials got right boils down to them being basically bad losers.

:faf:

Utter waste of time this.

I said pages ago that Havertz should've gone.

It was a clear 2 handed shove for the goal.

An elbow to the head off the ball is a red card.

The VAR officials work on the side for Newcastle's owners.

These are facts.

It's not about Arsenal. It's about a horrific standard of officiating. It's has benefitted your boys, the Saudi play thing, this time. It won't in a few weeks. I said all these things when the Liverpool Spurs incident happened too.

[MWHIBBIES]

Show us a credible source for what you are stating. Don't believe that for a moment.

Google Michael Oliver Saudi Arabia, you'll find 50 sources. Pick your favourite.

[MWHIBBIES]

Most employment contracts state whether or not you allowed to take on other paid employment in the same industry. I'd be surprised if the FA are any different, so they would have say over whether or not it is permitted, or to use your word, control over it.

Why do you think this matters, though? If a ref goes to the FA and says "Saudi want me for twice the money you pay me" what are they going to do?

They either say no, and the ref leaves and goes anyway, or they say yes. They have little choice.

[Since90+2]

Why do you think this matters, though? If a ref goes to the FA and says "Saudi want me for twice the money you pay me" what are they going to do?

They either say no, and the ref leaves and goes anyway, or they say yes. They have little choice.

What are the Saudi's paying compared to the FA?

[WeeRussell]

:faf:

Utter waste of time this.

I said pages ago that Havertz should've gone.

It was a clear 2 handed shove for the goal.

An elbow to the head off the ball is a red card.

The VAR officials work on the side for Newcastle's owners.

These are facts.

It's not about Arsenal. It's about a horrific standard of officiating. It's has benefitted your boys, the Saudi play thing, this time. It won't in a few weeks. I said all these things when the Liverpool Spurs incident happened too.

If it’s a waste of time you could always, for once, just stop and accept you see it differently.

You didn’t, you said he “absolutely could have” and then cried because DH used the stronger term “probably should have”.

I’ve just seen the forearm incident and think it should have been a red card. Carragher reckons the referee would have only given yellow if he’d seen it - I disagree with him.

But that’s okay.

[WeeRussell]

What are the Saudi's paying compared to the FA?

Apparently employment contracts don’t matter when you’re shouting about conflicts of interest and definitely know what you’re talking about. As long as it’s on Twitter.

[HoboHarry]

Why do you think this matters, though? If a ref goes to the FA and says "Saudi want me for twice the money you pay me" what are they going to do?

They either say no, and the ref leaves and goes anyway, or they say yes. They have little choice.
The FA have the choice to say yes or no and the referee will abide by the decision. No referee is quitting or risking being fired for a one-off game. Should the Saudis offer Michael Oliver or anyone else a full time contract then that's a different issue.

[HoboHarry]

Apparently employment contracts don’t matter when you’re shouting about conflicts of interest and definitely know what you’re talking about. As long as it’s on Twitter.
:agree:

[MWHIBBIES]

:agree:


Apparently employment contracts don’t matter when you’re shouting about conflicts of interest and definitely know what you’re talking about. As long as it’s on Twitter.

Multiple articles say 3k per match, more than double what they get normally. Nothing to do with twitter.

[MWHIBBIES]

The FA have the choice to say yes or no and the referee will abide by the decision. No referee is quitting or risking being fired for a one-off game. Should the Saudis offer Michael Oliver or anyone else a full time contract then that's a different issue.

Will they? you asked them personally?

They'll be just like all those footballers who turn down double their wage...

The Saudi league have spent billions this summer on players, I don't think they're going anywhere, its not a one off game.

[HoboHarry]

Will they? you asked them personally?

They'll be just like all those footballers who turn down double their wage...

The Saudi league have spent billions this summer on players, I don't think they're going anywhere, its not a one off game.
Those players that transfer you mean rather than play in one off games? Jesus wept (to use a term you use) you just can't help yourself with your attention seeking. Anyway I have work to do so you can wibble away to others until your heart is content.

[BoomtownHibees]

The FA have the choice to say yes or no and the referee will abide by the decision. No referee is quitting or risking being fired for a one-off game. Should the Saudis offer Michael Oliver or anyone else a full time contract then that's a different issue.

Taken from the press:

“Michael Oliver earned around £3,000 and business-class flights when he travelled to Saudi Arabia to referee a top-flight match between Cristiano Ronaldo's Al-Nassr and Al-Hilal this week.

The match fee is roughly double what he would get for a Premier League fixture and the move, unprecedented until now, is set to be repeated in the future with Oliver and other leading English officials.

Howard Webb, the new boss of the PGMOL, is said to be more relaxed than his predecessors at the Football Association - they handled such requests from foreign associations previously - and sees the benefit in his officials working in other domestic leagues, from both a reputational and experience perspective.

Oliver did not have a Champions League fixture this week and was able to fly in and out of Riyadh in just over a day, giving him ample recovery time ahead of Liverpool versus Nottingham Forest on Saturday”

[Since90+2]

Taken from the press:

“Michael Oliver earned around £3,000 and business-class flights when he travelled to Saudi Arabia to referee a top-flight match between Cristiano Ronaldo's Al-Nassr and Al-Hilal this week.

The match fee is roughly double what he would get for a Premier League fixture and the move, unprecedented until now, is set to be repeated in the future with Oliver and other leading English officials.

Howard Webb, the new boss of the PGMOL, is said to be more relaxed than his predecessors at the Football Association - they handled such requests from foreign associations previously - and sees the benefit in his officials working in other domestic leagues, from both a reputational and experience perspective.

Oliver did not have a Champions League fixture this week and was able to fly in and out of Riyadh in just over a day, giving him ample recovery time ahead of Liverpool versus Nottingham Forest on Saturday”

So there we have it. Requests are sent to the FA, who have approved it.

No doubt someone will be along to tell us otherwise though.

[HoboHarry]

So there we have it. Requests are sent to the FA, who have approved it.

No doubt someone will be along to tell us otherwise though.
Does anyone think that 3000 for officiating is some kind of fantastic deal? There's the two separate days where he travels from Newcastle - London - Riyadh - hotel and back again. Great opportunity yes but the notion that it's a financial windfall is nonsense. He could get one extra EPL game and be evens.

[lyonhibs]

So there we have it. Requests are sent to the FA, who have approved it.

No doubt someone will be along to tell us otherwise though.

From reading that quote, I understand its the PGMOL that handles such requests now.

Either way, yes, they aren't just jetting off of their own accord.

[Kato]

Does anyone think that 3000 for officiating is some kind of fantastic deal? There's the two separate days where he travels from Newcastle - London - Riyadh - hotel and back again. Great opportunity yes but the notion that it's a financial windfall is nonsense. He could get one extra EPL game and be evens.Agreed. If three grand is all that is in it.

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[HoboHarry]

Agreed. If three grand is all that is in it.

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I don't believe it either lol.

[HNA11]

Can we keep things on topic and avoid hurling about personal insults or hinting at them.

Much appreciated.

[HoboHarry]

Wisnae me. A big boy did it and ran away. :greengrin

[Tyler Durden]

Does anyone think that 3000 for officiating is some kind of fantastic deal? There's the two separate days where he travels from Newcastle - London - Riyadh - hotel and back again. Great opportunity yes but the notion that it's a financial windfall is nonsense. He could get one extra EPL game and be evens.

Right.

But the original point made was that it was a conflict of interest. Not sure how that can be disputed.

Crazy that the Premier League allow it

[Tyler Durden]

I think Montgomery is making himself look a bit stupid with his comments today re VAR and the offside.

Keeps saying he can only go with his naked eye and Boyle looks onside. Well no - you have the replays. Also the lack of understanding on “clear and obvious”.

Just comes across as sour grapes IMO.

[Kato]

I think Montgomery is making himself look a bit stupid with his comments today re VAR and the offside.

Keeps saying he can only go with his naked eye and Boyle looks onside. Well no - you have the replays. Also the lack of understanding on “clear and obvious”.

Just comes across as sour grapes IMO.Yeah, right. Hibs usually get slated for saying nothing then when someone does its stupid sour grapes. [emoji849]

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