How do you think Monty’s doing so far?

[matty_f]

What are your thoughts on Monty’s time in charge so far?

Unbeaten so far, but with three draws that see us in seventh place in the league.

He’s brought in Tavares and Whittaker, dropped Hanlon, we look a threat going forward but still a bit ropey at the back.

There seems to be a good spring in the step of the squad though, and it feels like we’re going in the right direction.

What are your thoughts?

[malcky]

What are your thoughts on Monty’s time in charge so far?

Unbeaten so far, but with three draws that see us in seventh place in the league.

He’s brought in Tavares and Whittaker, dropped Hanlon, we look a threat going forward but still a bit ropey at the back.

There seems to be a good spring in the step of the squad though, and it feels like we’re going in the right direction.

What are your thoughts?

Like the style we are playing, don’t think we are as ropey at the back as we were under Lee, definitely looking more structured and confident we can score, I’m happy the way things are going.

[JimBHibees]

Happy thus far. Good watchable attacking style i like we can keep possession of the ball and are patient in possession. Looks like we are more motivated and coached better. A bit more threat and variation at set pieces also. Obviously early days but like his manner and honest approach

[Pretty Boy]

I'm enjoying Hibs at the moment which is really the most important thing for me. I want us to be good, and that helps massively with the enjoyment, but I accept we are never going to be consistently brilliant so if I can get a bit of pleasure out of attending games and chatting about Hibs then I'm pretty happy.

I love seeing young players in the team so the emergence of Whittaker is a real plus point for me. As are his attempts to rehabilitate Jair and, to a far lesser extent, Rocky.

He has instantly put his mark on the team. We are set up differently and we play differently from the previous manager. I daresay stats and analysis can be used to back that up but I think most of us who attend games can see it anyway.

I also like that he seems to want to demand more. I was quietly impressed after the game on Saturday that there was no big celebration of the draw. Manager and players acknowledged the fans but it was understated. I can remember a certain 'born winner' giving it big licks to the fans after a 0-0 draw at Tynecastle (albeit we would have won 1-0 had VAR existed then).

It's early days but I'm optimistic, not even cautiously so, as I really think we have got a good one in Montgomery. His career as a manager is short but it's defined by success and success that was punching above his teams weight at that. You can see the players are enjoying the games at the moment; look at the subs reaction to the 2 goals on Saturday, look at the whole change in demeanour in someone like David Marshall. There are issues for sure and I'm still nervous about his preferred system against really good teams but it's small steps in the right direction and that's all you can ask until he can really put his own mark on the team.

[Jones28]

Unbeaten so far.

Giving players like Tavares a chance, something Johnson was bizarrely **** at considering the fanfare he gave him.

Youngest ever debutant, again something Johnson was a total failure with. Mind that time Josh O'Connor came on, won a penalty and disappeared?

It looks like Monty is serious about transitioning Stevenson out of the side, I'm sad its happening but it's about time it was.

If we can start keeping clean sheets we WILL score goals, I never felt this way under Johnson or Maloney.

So far I'd say Monty gets a 7/10, a couple of those draws turning in to wins would have seen that become an 8.5 or 9/10.

Big tests coming up, I fully expect us to lose both games against Celtic and Rangers but they've both shown already this season they are not unbeatable by any stretch.

[Since452]

It's pretty well known i didn't buy in to the hysteria when he was appointed but think he's done relatively ok so far. I'd have expected the results he's had with anyone in charge with the squad we have and the fixtures have been pretty kind to him. The draws against Killie and Dundee were disappointing but the cup win against St Mirren and the come back against Hearts were good. Playing Tavares and some of his subs have had me scratching my head but i guess he has to learn the squad. Really pleased he's starting Rocky most weeks. He's unbeaten and that isn't to be sniffed at but i'd have liked a few more points at least. The first half against Hearts was woeful but we got a draw in the end. 6.5/10 so far.

[Centre Hawf]

Happy with the progress we've made already in the short space of time he's been here. He's definitely trying to work out the full extent of the squad at his disposal by giving folk like Jair a chance.

But I think January might be another busy window for ins and outs once he's identified who is and isn't for him.

[Craig_in_Prague]

He is a good man 1st and foremost, honest, has integrity and clearly has the respect of the players.
Really think this was an outstanding appointment and much needed after quite a few duff managers in row, in a short space of time he's gave me the 'bug' back with Hibs, if you know what I mean.
Fully trust him and what he's doing, plenty optimism for this season and beyond.

Taking my son back for the semi final, safe to say I'd give it a miss under Johnson.

I can see me making many more trips back to see the team under Monty. We might not win in the semi and we might not even get into top 4, but the team look like they are happier and playing better, this goes a long way for fans that we can just relate to the manager and the team...
I hope Monty goes on to achieve success of course, the transformation in a short space of time, indicates we have a really good chance of making this season a great one... which I wouldn't have envisaged a month ago under LJ. Not really felt as positive about Hibs since perhaps Lennon.

Onwards and upwards!

[superfurryhibby]

I'm enjoying watching the team, happy with the change of style and approach.

Overall, he's been a breath of fresh air.

[Pagan Hibernia]

No complaints so far. The football has (at times) been nice to watch, the team appears to have more shape and coherence, and he's giving youth a chance. He's impressive too, in his interviews. Just has a more solid, assertive approach than Johnson or Maloney.

Football is a fickle game though and things can change very quickly. A couple of thrashings by the arse cheeks and getting knocked out of the LC by aberdeen and suddenly the old doubts will creep in.

But for now I'm just enjoying the positive mood and energy around the club. It just feels like a breath of fresh air after the gloom of the last few years when games really did feel like a chore.

[The Modfather]

I like him and the early signs are encouraging. He speaks well and seems to want to do most of his talking on the park. A far cry from Johnson.

It’s clear and consistent in how he wants us to play. We’re organised and have a recognisable shape. He is also willing to give everyone a chance, an actual clean slate, not just a football cliche. I’m also excited to see what he does in January/next season with the U19s and his own players.

I do worry that he will have a Mowbray-like blind spot/limitation, and his will be being wedded to 442 at all times. However it feels like a breath of fresh air and he’s going to be popular, hard to dislike, and the start of a Mowbray/Stubbs upward curve. Proof will be in the pudding though as still too early to form any definitive opinions.

[Iain G]

I like him and the early signs are encouraging. He speaks well and seems to want to do most of his talking on the park. A far cry from Johnson.

It’s clear and consistent in how he wants us to play. We’re organised and have a recognisable shape. He is also willing to give everyone a chance, an actual clean slate, not just a football cliche. I’m also excited to see what he does in January/next season with the U19s and his own players.

I do worry that he will have a Mowbray-like blind spot/limitation, and his will be being wedded to 442 at all times. However it feels like a breath of fresh air and he’s going to be popular, hard to dislike, and the start of a Mowbray/Stubbs upward curve. Proof will be in the pudding though as still too early to form any definitive opinions.

From what I have seen from afar, he has made 442 quite a flexible formation, pushing fullbacks up and dropping the midfield 2 deeper for example. Can probably add in split forward line with one dropping deeper etc. Scottish football is not complicated and some overthink it, keep it simple, consistent, with clear instructions to the players and he will do well.

[Mcbizz1998]

Very pleased so far though it's of course early days. Main positives are:

- Straight talker
- A clear style of play is developing
- Appears to have good man management skills and is liked by the players
- Brought in a good back room staff and hugely impressive assistant.
- Seems to understand the size of the Hibs job and the expectation of our supporters
- Defence improved
- Improving players already at the club (Marshall, Tavares, even Miller)
- Has done well in the 2 bona fide "big games" so far (St Mirren in cup & Hearts away)

Time will tell but I am much more excited/positive about this appointment than I was with Maloney or LJ. They were disasters from the start (less so LJ) imo.

[The Modfather]

From what I have seen from afar, he has made 442 quite a flexible formation, pushing fullbacks up and dropping the midfield 2 deeper for example. Can probably add in split forward line with one dropping deeper etc. Scottish football is not complicated and some overthink it, keep it simple, consistent, with clear instructions to the players and he will do well.

That’s fair, there’s been variations within the 442 so it’s not a simplistic old school 442 he is wedded to at all times. More meaning that he won’t be against packing the midfield and going with a 3 at certain times, for example.

[JohnM1875]

Happy with Montys start and I think it is just that, a start. He's still finding his feet at the club and I have no doubt we'll vastly improve under him.

Slightly worried (maybe worried is the wrong word) about the majority of our first half performances so far though. We always look a far better team in the second half of the game. Once we click from the off we're going to be some team to watch.

Think we have a bit of a swagger about us again and the players seem to really be loving it and buying into what Monty is doing. Think that's such an important thing for a team to be successful.

As soon as his name was mentioned he was the manager I wanted in, so glad he's got off to a good start.

Next month or so is massive though but I'm back to being confident about winning every game regardless of opposition, so buzzing for the upcoming games.

[B.H.F.C]

I think he’ll do well. League table might not look pretty by the time we get the next two games out the way but I’m confident he’ll change that. Disappointment is that we should have at least an extra couple of points.

Attitude Is night and day, we’ve shown a bit fight going behind to St Mirren and Hearts.

There are obvious improvements but, IMO, they’ll only come with change in personnel. First window will be interesting.

[Since452]

If we get a point or more from our next two games and he gets us into a final then an OK start turns into a good one. Fully expect us to lose both games against the Weegies so wont hold it against him if we do.

[worcesterhibby]

I actually have a feeling that we will get something out of at least one of the next two games, but if we don't I will be looking at what odds the bookies are offerring on us getting third, because over the course of a full season I really think he will have us playing easily as well and as consistently as Aberdeen, Hearts and St Mirren.

[Iain G]

I think he’ll do well. League table might not look pretty by the time we get the next two games out the way but I’m confident he’ll change that. Disappointment is that we should have at least an extra couple of points.

Attitude Is night and day, we’ve shown a bit fight going behind to St Mirren and Hearts.

There are obvious improvements but, IMO, they’ll only come with change in personnel. First window will be interesting.

I do think he is probably pleasantly surprised with the quality he has inherited. We maybe need 1 or 2 in to complete a very good squad but we are not far away. Maybe he is just the right man to get a good rune out of this bunch?

[Onion]

Think he’s doing ok with what he has inherited. Hopeful he is learning a lot about the abilities and character of the players, and sets a higher standard than the previous few duds we’ve suffered under.

[Smartie]

It feels very like early Mowbray to me. There have been a few slightly disappointing results but already the football looks much better. We're clearly a work in progress but I've never been more on board with a manager after a disappointing result than when Mowbray gave his casual shrug and said "if we keep playing like that we'll win more than we'll lose" after throwing away a good position in a home game with Dundee. Mowbray was probably my favourite Hibs manager and I support Montgomery 100% in his efforts to improve us, acknowledging that there will be bumps in the road along the way.

Exciting times lie ahead imo.

[Partyraiser]

I think he's been a breath of fresh air. There's a clear attempt to implement a style. His interviews are engaging and not full of cliches (and bull****) and there appears to be a bit of fight in the team that's been missing for years

[B.H.F.C]

I do think he is probably pleasantly surprised with the quality he has inherited. We maybe need 1 or 2 in to complete a very good squad but we are not far away. Maybe he is just the right man to get a good rune out of this bunch?

In terms of first 11 we’re not far away but there is very little beyond that.

If anything happens to Miller we’re short at RB and I still think we need to improve at centre half. Not got any real cover for Youan or Boyle either.

We’ve got a good midfielder in Levitt who hasn’t been playing and I think he’ll get himself in to the team over the next few months.

[Brightside]

He's doing OK on the pitch. Plenty scope for improvement. More importantly there is a much bigger sense of togetherness with the squad now.

Bringing taveres in was interesting psychology but zero impact on the quality of the team.
Dropping Hanlon certainly lets him know that his time is almost up and I'll assume we are looking for left sided defenders in Jan. Hanlon could still do a very god job for other teams in our league and it will be interesting to so if he still wants to hang about next season.
Looking forward to Levitt coming into the team against more teams and we should then find it easier to come out from the back centrally whilst also becoming better at keeping the ball.

So I think we will see an LCB in Jan and an older winger to provide cover and change of style etc - like we do with ALF in the forward area.

[SickBoy32]

Massive improvement from LJ for me, team looks a LOT more comfortable with their roles and we're seeing that in the improved performances.

A simple 442 is a refreshing change too, after our last two managers. Football is too often over complicated IMO, and our previous 2 managers were very much in that mould. Two up front in the SPL with two quality wingers, will lead us to a lot of goals - more than happy to line up like this every week (maybe with the exception of us playing away to the OF), we should be going at everyone coming to ER.

Think we were unlucky to draw at Rugby Park - and the comebacks against St Mirren and hearts are very encouraging - couldn't have seen either happening under the previous manager.

From what you can gauge via interviews, body language on the touchline - again, a massive improvement on LJ.

My only concern to date would be the persistence with Rocky over Hanlon, just doesn't make sense to me at all, and I think this is a big part in why we are still looking a bit suspect defensively. Obviously he's hoping he can improve Bushiri, fingers crossed he manages that. Tavares to me is just a waste of time persevering with, he's so far off the level we need, weakens us whenever on the park.

Credit to the board for what looks to be a very astute appointment. Hopefully we can get a result (or two) vs the OF then he leads us to the LC final at Xmas.

:flag:

[JammyDoidger]

Love the aura around the big man, players are definitely giving their all for him that's for sure, we look like we have a game plan and a style already and look dangerous going forward. More than happy with what I've seen to this point.
He's given youngsters a chance and fringe players second chances, shown he's brave in that regard, which will help get everyone behind him, players and fans alike.

Negatives if that's what you'd call them, substitutions imo, at times have been very risky, and we will get caught out soon with it, we need our best players playing 90mins more regularly, im hoping he was just managing workload after a tough start to the season with a heavy fixture schedule.
Other small gripe is as we seen at Tynie playing 4-4-2 we could run away with games scoring goals which will be exciting a lot of the time, but other times and at certain venues I worry when we are left so wide open. Going to ibrox and Celtic park in particular and leaving yourself so wide open could see you come away with a hiding.

Results wise I think getting through in the cup was big, but we shouldn't have dropped points at killie from being 2-0 up or at home to Dundee. So probably just done enough, staying unbeaten is great but we should have 4 more points.

All in all though very impressed, and there's no one I'd rather have in charge of our club atm.

We still need some surgery in January, we are short in a couple of positions although from what we've seen I don't think throwing a youngster in will phase him.

[Mikey_1875]

8/10 - quite happy with the changes in style and attitude and results have been decent, albeit should have been even better!

Man management skills were probably the most vital requirement for whoever came in as I don’t think there are going to be any more overhauls in the squad and the window was already shut. Monty has the feel of someone who will be revered by the players and has already shown evidence of getting everyone pulling in the same direction.

It probably borders into over analysis looking into the negatives but for me their have been some bizarre decisions made in game. Triple sub vs St Mirren and Campbells cameos further up the park. Not really keen on swapping centre halves in tight games with 20 to go either.

Also share the concerns around how we set up for different games but time will tell on that one. I suppose there is evidence that after poor 1st halves we can make subtle changes and Monty can get a different tune out of the players. As shown vs St Mirren and in the derby.

The main thing though as others have mentioned I am enjoying watching us at the moment and looking forward to seeing more of what Monty can bring.

[HoboHarry]

Seriously, anyone who hasn't seen an improvement thus far needs to go do something else other than watch football.

[Hibbyradge]

I think the league cup game(s) will tell us a lot.

[Since452]

Seriously, anyone who hasn't seen an improvement thus far needs to go do something else other than watch football.

Not hard. We'd lost our first three league games before he came.

[easty]

Not hard. We'd lost our first three league games before he came.

We won the league game before he came in.

[04Sauzee]

We are winning more than we are losing 0 defeats at the moment)
And we are more enjoyable to watch.

Probably not got a squad that he really wants and I'm looking forward to seeing what a Monty signing looks like.

He has a few players out injured in JDH, Mckirdy, Cadden and Wallacott.

Players on loan like Henderson, Tait, Melkersen, Kenneh and Mackay all of which may have a little transfer value if they are doing well and don't return to Hibs.

Plus some of the younger boys on loan. , O'Connor, Aiken, MacIntyre etc.

I'm positive about Montgomery and Hibs going forward.

[StevesFamau5]

Refreshing, he's started solidly for me. Should we have won v Dundee? Yeah, but under Brent it would have been a 1-0 or 2-0 loss. I feel it's like a slow upward trend, marching towards better days but not getting overly excited and pissing the bed.

Someone pointed out earlier that his attitude and mannerisms are more grounded and calm than "Mr. Born Winner" which translates to a no panic attitude on the pitch. 2-0 down at the bus shelter with 30 minutes to go. Apart from the cup game I can't recall anyone doing this as calmly (correct me boffins if I'm wrong).

If we get a point or more from either of the uglies then it would be a mega statement of intent.

8/10 so far, next 3 games assuming we get a final and something from uglies 9.5/10 - no final and 2 defeats but show fight and a bit of backbone 7/10.

Win all 3.... 11/10 :greengrin:flag:

[Since452]

We won the league game before he came in.

True. Our best performance since sacking LJ.

[WhileTheChief..]

Happy with the way things are going and feel more positive about the club in general.

Still think the squad is weak and needs a lot of work but NM is showing he can get more out of the current players than LJ ever could.

Performances are still mixed though and I'm looking forward to much more improvement as time goes on.

[WhileTheChief..]

Seriously, anyone who hasn't seen an improvement thus far needs to go do something else other than watch football.

There's not a single post with anyone saying that.

[HoboHarry]

There's not a single post with anyone saying that.
Where did I say there was?

[WeeRussell]

Where did I say there was?

In not one single post 😁

[CockneyRebel]

There's not a single post with anyone saying that.


I think he was making a general comment rather than referring to posters on this thread.

[Lancs Harp]

Biggest Pro ... brought virtually everyone together and pushing in the same direction and brought back the feel good feeling.

Biggest con ... he's from Yorkshire 😀

[Chorley Hibee]

Biggest Pro ... brought virtually everyone together and pushing in the same direction and brought back the feel good feeling.

Biggest con ... he's from Yorkshire 😀

I'll second that last point. 😉🤣

[007]

Biggest Pro ... brought virtually everyone together and pushing in the same direction and brought back the feel good feeling.

Biggest con ... he's from Yorkshire 😀


I'll second that last point. 😉🤣

Oi! No trying to rekindle the wars of the roses. 😀

[blackpoolhibs]

I'm impressed so far, and excited about who he will sign in the coming windows. :thumbsup:

[Lago]

What are your thoughts on Monty’s time in charge so far?

Unbeaten so far, but with three draws that see us in seventh place in the league.

He’s brought in Tavares and Whittaker, dropped Hanlon, we look a threat going forward but still a bit ropey at the back.

There seems to be a good spring in the step of the squad though, and it feels like we’re going in the right direction.

What are your thoughts?
Fine

[HoboHarry]

I think he was making a general comment rather than referring to posters on this thread.
Correct. :agree:

[Heisenberg]

He’s done pretty well. Sure he’ll get one or two of his own signings in January to kick us further on but he’s certainly made improvements in the playing style and definitely seems to have lifted the mood at the entire club. Long may it continue.

[Lancs Harp]

He’s done pretty well. Sure he’ll get one or two of his own signings in January to kick us further on but he’s certainly made improvements in the playing style and definitely seems to have lifted the mood at the entire club. Long may it continue.

It will be very interesting so see who Monty will bring in during the Jan window having had a few months to assess the squad.

[HoboHarry]

In not one single post 😁
Made me laugh there... :greengrin

[Tambo]

Doing well so far with the players he has, still can be a bit exposed out wide at times and like the OP has said with the defence.

We really should have took the 3 points vs Kilmarnock and Dundee which would have had us higher in the league.

Will be interesting come January and if he will want a look at the players out on loan and players he will want to bring in.

Looking forward to the rangers and Celtic games and will be up again for Kilmarnock in November.

[Ronniekirk]

Am happy so far although would of liked a win v Dundee at home
Think if we loose both old firm gsmes tgen wil be interesting to see if we can bounce back with a win in next league game
But Rangers will just have new manager in and we could be in good position to take something from that game
But glad we punted L J clearky was right decision

[Suburban Hibby]

I'm enjoying Hibs at the moment which is really the most important thing for me. I want us to be good, and that helps massively with the enjoyment, but I accept we are never going to be consistently brilliant so if I can get a bit of pleasure out of attending games and chatting about Hibs then I'm pretty happy.

I love seeing young players in the team so the emergence of Whittaker is a real plus point for me. As are his attempts to rehabilitate Jair and, to a far lesser extent, Rocky.

He has instantly put his mark on the team. We are set up differently and we play differently from the previous manager. I daresay stats and analysis can be used to back that up but I think most of us who attend games can see it anyway.

I also like that he seems to want to demand more. I was quietly impressed after the game on Saturday that there was no big celebration of the draw. Manager and players acknowledged the fans but it was understated. I can remember a certain 'born winner' giving it big licks to the fans after a 0-0 draw at Tynecastle (albeit we would have won 1-0 had VAR existed then).

It's early days but I'm optimistic, not even cautiously so, as I really think we have got a good one in Montgomery. His career as a manager is short but it's defined by success and success that was punching above his teams weight at that. You can see the players are enjoying the games at the moment; look at the subs reaction to the 2 goals on Saturday, look at the whole change in demeanour in someone like David Marshall. There are issues for sure and I'm still nervous about his preferred system against really good teams but it's small steps in the right direction and that's all you can ask until he can really put his own mark on the team.

Absolutely where I’m am- optimistic

[Steve20]

Would probably have wanted more points from the fixtures we’ve had (draws at Killie and home to Dundee not great results wise), but it’s clear as day that the improvement is there. Far more enjoyable to watch and hopefully the points will start to come based on the performances.

Can’t really tell for definite until he gets a chance to bring in his own defenders though.

Promising start. But points needed if we want to challenge for 3rd

[heretoday]

He's the Messiah.

[WeeRussell]

He's the Messiah.

No comment 😁

[silverhibee]

Not hard. We'd lost our first three league games before he came.

Not hard, c’mon eh..

[Dashing Bob S]

Can’t add much to the above. Some interesting points, and ones which often tell us more about the disposition of the posters than Monty.

I didn’t mind Johnson, but Monty is already in a different league. I can’t think of another manager in Scotland I’d replace him with.

[Northernhibee]

Good, I found myself entertained by a 0-0 draw against Dundee FFS.

He’s getting more out of the players, there seems to be a plan, and although we need to win more I trust he’ll keep improving us.

[Forza Fred]

He’s came in and steadied the ship.

Gave everybody…including Jair, a ‘fair go’ and should now have worked out what his best 14 or 15 looks like.

Monty made lots of substitutions at Mariners….usually at the 70 minute mark…..and I can see him making full use of his subs….the days of working out what he considers to be his ‘best 11’ are over.

It’s still early days, and he’s still settling in but there seems to be a more upbeat feel among not just the supporters, but the players too.

[HoboHarry]

He’s came in and steadied the ship.

Gave everybody…including Jair, a ‘fair go’ and should now have worked out what his best 14 or 15 looks like.

Monty made lots of substitutions at Mariners….usually at the 70 minute mark…..and I can see him making full use of his subs….the days of working out what he considers to be his ‘best 11’ are over.

It’s still early days, and he’s still settling in but there seems to be a more upbeat feel among not just the supporters, but the players too.
I've never understood the "best 11" thing. Makes no sense, our best 11 against Celtic is a bit different to the best 11 that plays Kilmarnock or whoever.

[Donegal Hibby]

I've never understood the "best 11" thing. Makes no sense, our best 11 against Celtic is a bit different to the best 11 that plays Kilmarnock or whoever.

If Monty sticks with his preferred 4-4-2 formation when playing the old firm , is there that many changes he can make to our team ?just curious btw 🤔

[McGruber]

I think he is doing fantastic is the short answer. Early days but all signs are good.
If anything, would just like to see a change in formation if it suits certain games. All for identity, style and preferred formation - but we should have a few.
Great comeback at Tynie and still cheesing with the comeback but convinced we win that game with 3 in the middle. More control of the ball, Lowry nullified and still carrying threat from 3 very good attacking players. Interested to see if he is more pragmatic v the uglies

[Gmack7]

I like what he's done so far, I realise the 442 is flexible but I'd like to see a 3rd man ( levitt) in the middle at the expense of a CF for the games against the arse cheeks coming up

[Paulie Walnuts]

A definite improvement without being knock your socks off good.

Still don’t think we’ve got the squad to be where we want to be so I think we’ve got to hope for a good January window. If we can get that and remain in touching distance of third then we could be in with a shout.

[Hibees1973]

Very good start.

He has his hands tied somewhat in that the next transfer window is still 3 months away. The squad is very thin in some areas and we are just a couple of key injuries away from being in a bit of a struggle.

Our league position may not look that great after the two games against the OF, but that is not the fault of Montgomery. The next quarter of fixtures will, I hope, have us sitting 4th or 5th come the new year. The Cup Semi Final is 50/50. I noticed Ladbrokes have us as 2nd favourites (9/2) to win the League Cup after Rangers, which makes us slight favourites to beat Aberdeen in the Semi Final.

I think what pleases me most at the moment is that we are not making headlines in a negative way. Some of Johnson's soundbites really annoyed me and the media tended to pounce on them and held it against the cub.

I hope and expect the quiet and methodical approach from Montgomery will continue. It's a relief for me that the waffle and foolish bravado is in the past.

What is telling is that there have been quotes from various players such as Vente, Fish & Youan, since Montgomery came in, that training is more detailed & structured. Youan has also said there is more of a bond in the squad now.

I'm not expecting the earth from Montgomery just now, it's far too early. The League Cup semi is 50/50 so I would not be too disappointed if we do not make the final.

I have been one of the major critics on here regarding the Gordon's and the revolving door of players and managers recently.

Now I am not in any doubt Hibs are in a much better position to progress than at any time in the last 2-3 years.

[GRA]

Positive signs so far. We're looking good going forward but defensive issues still need addressed. The couple of weeks after the international break will be more of a barometer of his progress given we've difficult games against the Old Firm, a semi final and a home game we really should win. Keeping the unbeaten streak going from those fixtures will give us a real boost going into the winter period.

[Since452]

Not hard, c’mon eh..

LJ was underperforming with the squad he had. You saw the difference immediately when he left and we beat Aberdeen easily at Pittodrie. Montgomery has inherited a top 4 squad imo. He's not taken over a poor one. The Luzern games gave a glimpse of the potential. Once the team get used to his philosophy and system he has a very realistic chance of doing well at Hibs. He's doing not bad so far.

[superfurryhibby]

Improvement is evident, no surprise, as a few have said. The team is better than results in the league under LJ suggested.

So far I’ve enjoyed the football, been a bit baffled by substitutions at times and pleased that he seems to be passionate, but fairly measured in what he says.

I’m looking forward to seeing more of Levitt, he could become a vital part of this side.

Also awaiting the return of Wollacott, another who can potentially improve the team.

Some stern tests await over the next month, we will be better placed to assess progress after that.

[Keith_M]

I was disappointed with the Dundee result, and thought we were extremely poor for large spells against Hearts, but still feel quite positive, given the other results and the style of play.

I'm still in the camp of 'let's just see how it goes', but looking forward to it nonetheless.

[easty]

I was disappointed with the Dundee result, and thought we were extremely poor for large spells against Hearts, but still feel quite positive, given the other results and the style of play.

I'm still in the camp of 'let's just see how it goes', but looking forward to it nonetheless.

Dundee game was very disappointing. We’re the better team that day, but so we should be with the squads we each have. In the end the best 2 chances probably fell to Dundee that day.

Kilmarnock was poor. The first half performance v Hearts was terrible.

There’s clear signs of better football than we’d had previously, but I’m not seeing as huge a turnaround as some are. LJ would prob be getting slaughtered for the same run of scores.

[The Modfather]

Dundee game was very disappointing. We’re the better team that day, but so we should be with the squads we each have. In the end the best 2 chances probably fell to Dundee that day.

Kilmarnock was poor. The first half performance v Hearts was terrible.

There’s clear signs of better football than we’d had previously, but I’m not seeing as huge a turnaround as some are. LJ would prob be getting slaughtered for the same run of scores.

Johnson had 3 transfer windows, and spent around £2m alone in the summer. Montgomery has vastly improved upon Johnson this season. We’re probably fairly similar to last season results wise. Possibly performance wise too, but we’re already streets ahead (one for the Community fans) in terms of a being a structured and recognisable team, over the whole of Johnson’s time IMO.

[Haymaker]

Didn't beat Hertz but then again didnt lose either and hasn't signed Griffiths.

It's 50/50 for me right now.

[Eyrie]

Didn't beat Hertz but then again didnt lose either and hasn't signed Griffiths.

It's 50/50 for me right now.

That's one bad and two goods then, so hardly 50-50 :na na:

[Haymaker]

That's one bad and two goods then, so hardly 50-50 :na na:

Not losing to them is OK. Not signing Griffiths is border line crimminal.

[ano hibby]

Did well when he came on today, clearly committed in the tackle, showed good skill a couple of times & sprayed a few diagonals out to the wingers 👍

[Donegal Hibby]

I always like when hibs play attacking football which they are under Monty . The way we are playing the
4-4-2 formation I've found interesting and enjoyable to watch even though at times it's been frightening how exposed it leaves us at the back at times too .

With both the old firm to play next I'd probably like to see us go with one striker and play another Midfielder though I don't think Monty will do this . Old firm games I look at as a free hit now due to the financial gap .

I'm looking forward to getting our injured players back and seeing what type of players Monty might want to bring in on January. Lots of good positive vibes coming from the football club since Monty's appointment . If I had to give him a rating out of 10 for how he's doing so far I'd probably give Monty a 7/10 .

[basehibby]

He's done OK so far without blowing my socks off. The wins vs St Johnstone and St Mirren were very satisfying and the kind of results we would hope and expect to see at ER. Disappointing to draw with Dundee though and to get beaten out of sight by Rangers. We got out of jail a bit at Tynie which shows good spirit within the squad but also that we are still suspect at the back at times as confirmed on Sat at Ibrox.
Early days yet of course and Monty will feel he still has much progress to make with this squad as well as having the chance to add to it in a transfer window. Can he engender the kind of ethos and mentality that earned him such success in the A League? Every reason to hope and I'm right behind him.

[Trinity Hibee]

We keep hearing this but it is true, Montgomery needs to assess what he has for the rest of this season and bring his own players in over the summer. If we are lucky he may bring in one or two decent signings in January.

I do think we’ll see an improvement longer term. We’ve all just run out of patience with the managers we’ve had to put up with the last year or two.

[flash]

https://twitter.com/pieandbov/status/1716469292911235306?t=DbAIjHrgtAE6dmGey_IWbQ&s=19

There's a wee snapshot of the last 6 games. Obviously fixtures vary between clubs.

[Jones28]

https://twitter.com/pieandbov/status/1716469292911235306?t=DbAIjHrgtAE6dmGey_IWbQ&s=19

There's a wee snapshot of the last 6 games. Obviously fixtures vary between clubs.

So Hearts, Aberdeen and Rangers in amongst that, plus a game we should have won against Dundee.

I think that’s fair enough.

[matty_f]

https://twitter.com/pieandbov/status/1716469292911235306?t=DbAIjHrgtAE6dmGey_IWbQ&s=19

There's a wee snapshot of the last 6 games. Obviously fixtures vary between clubs.

Thanks for sharing that.

I still think we’re on the right lines with him, and I’m not someone who’s too fussed about him sticking to his system. For me, if I’m a player and the manager believes this style of play gives us the best chance to win games then I’m more likely to buy into that if he doesn’t change it when it matters - because if he does that i think he’s saying that he doesn’t really believe in it.

That said, there’s definitely an argument that says that it’s bad management to only have one way of playing and that good managers adapt to win games.

I can see both sides, but if the 442 is the way Monty wants to play, then he needs do to it consistently and he needs the players to be better in that system.

[Donegal Hibby]

Thanks for sharing that.

I still think we’re on the right lines with him, and I’m not someone who’s too fussed about him sticking to his system. For me, if I’m a player and the manager believes this style of play gives us the best chance to win games then I’m more likely to buy into that if he doesn’t change it when it matters - because if he does that i think he’s saying that he doesn’t really believe in it.

That said, there’s definitely an argument that says that it’s bad management to only have one way of playing and that good managers adapt to win games.

I can see both sides, but if the 442 is the way Monty wants to play, then he needs do to it consistently and he needs the players to be better in that system.

There's nothing wrong in playing an attacking 442 in games though not in them all like against the old firm . It was too easy for them where they had 23 shots in a game that could have ended up 6 or 7 .

If Monty goes for the same set up and style of play against Celtic after what happened against Sevco and it leads to us getting a doing then I'd indeed call it bad management tbh . Having only one way of playing and being unable to adapt to different games I don't think is a very good situation either.
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/tactics-zone-what-hibs-and-hearts-can-learn-ahead-of-old-firm-fixture-swap-4382094

[JammyDoidger]

Thanks for sharing that.

I still think we’re on the right lines with him, and I’m not someone who’s too fussed about him sticking to his system. For me, if I’m a player and the manager believes this style of play gives us the best chance to win games then I’m more likely to buy into that if he doesn’t change it when it matters - because if he does that i think he’s saying that he doesn’t really believe in it.

That said, there’s definitely an argument that says that it’s bad management to only have one way of playing and that good managers adapt to win games.

I can see both sides, but if the 442 is the way Monty wants to play, then he needs do to it consistently and he needs the players to be better in that system.

I think the sign of a good manager is being able to adapt. If you're just doing the same things every week it can become a bit boring also, sometimes it's good to throw a curveball and ask something different of the players. It shows you've thought out a game plan and the best way to get a result, the players will know Celtic have better players they need set up properly. You need to be solid and carry a threat, going gung ho is just madness.

I don't believe if you change shape it means you don't believe in your usual, it simply means it might not be the best way to play against a superior opponent. Players will understand that.

We shouldn't play the same way against Celtic and rangers as we do against Dundee and Livi, it's completely different games, different levels.

[Unseen work]

Personally, I like him.

I like how he talks and conducts himself, the way the players are talking about him and the staff and how training is alot more intense and detailed.

I like how I can see what we’re trying to do when we have the ball.

In his first game in charge he said he wasn’t happy conceding from a set play, since then we’ve not conceded directly from one, huge improvement.

I think the formation thing is getting blown way out of proportion. It’s a 442 however a lot of the time one of the strikers drops deep in and out of possession, on Saturday there Vente and ALF often went just in front of the two centre mids and blocked the pass into them, allowing the rangers defence to have it.

I wouldn’t say he’s naive not changing formation, up until Saturday we were unbeaten. On Saturday I don’t think we lost because of playing a 442 or being outnumbered in midfield, we forced them long and more often than not they were trying to counter us. Rangers however played a very similar formation to us which isn’t being used as a negative by anyone?

The hearts game we admittedly struggled with Lowry and his movement. However we came back from 2-0 down at Tynecastle, after a really poor first half and got a draw. I reckon Montgomery will find/teach the team ways to deal with guys/teams like Lowry instead of completely changing what he wants to do.

People say change formation based on who you’re playing. Look at Ange - he’s said in countless interviews that he plays the way he does because in his opinion it’s the best way to win games of football, not matter who he’s against. He said what sort of message would it send to the players to play a certain way against one team and then completely go against it against one deemed better? It would ruin their confidence. Now they could win a one off game changing formation/style but it will be luck instead of what the practice day in day out, he believes you do what you practice and become the best version of that. He was doubted at Celtic and succeed and he was doubted at Tottenham and has them a point behind 1st in the league and unbeaten.

I’ve seen big improvements already, both as a team and individually- Fish as an example was outstanding on Saturday imo and his form has improved no end.

Miller and Jeggo have also improved massively under Monty.

I think the squad is a bit weak at the moment with injuries to JDH, McKirdy and Cadden which leaves us extremely light out wide. He’s brought Jair back into the fold who I can see improvements in and introduced a 16 year old who doesn’t look out of place.

I’m excited to see where we go under Montgomery and who he signs in January.

He’s got a set of ***** which you need to be a Hibs manager, he’s also got that man manager side which will see us good imo.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think the sign of a good manager is being able to adapt. If you're just doing the same things every week it can become a bit boring also, sometimes it's good to throw a curveball and ask something different of the players. It shows you've thought out a game plan and the best way to get a result, the players will know Celtic have better players they need set up properly. You need to be solid and carry a threat, going gung ho is just madness.

I don't believe if you change shape it means you don't believe in your usual, it simply means it might not be the best way to play against a superior opponent. Players will understand that.

We shouldn't play the same way against Celtic and rangers as we do against Dundee and Livi, it's completely different games, different levels.

:top marks

[Clarence]

I suppose if you just take “the manager played the wrong formation” out of the reasons for the team not winning, it can only ever be the players to blame. So smart move until the team is threatened with relegation.

[Hibs90]

It’s an improvement on Johnson.

He also is working with Johnson’s squad. He’s doing fine. The issue is the defence.

[Unseen work]

I suppose if you just take “the manager played the wrong formation” out of the reasons for the team not winning, it can only ever be the players to blame. So smart move until the team is threatened with relegation.

What about the gulf in quality and wage bill/money spent?

People are acting like when we play 451 against the old firm we have success. We’ve been poor against both of them for years, minus the off result here and there.

The same people moaning about not playing 451 will be the same that come along saying Vente, ALF and Doidge can’t play up top by themselves etc

[Clarence]

What about the gulf in quality and wage bill/money spent?

People are acting like when we play 451 against the old firm we have success. We’ve been poor against both of them for years, minus the off result here and there.

The same people moaning about not playing 451 will be the same that come along saying Vente, ALF and Doidge can’t play up top by themselves etc

Typically we got those results through frustrating them and then taking our chances. We make it too easy for them early on and as Monty said it turns into a “party atmosphere”.

[Unseen work]

Typically we got those results through frustrating them and then taking our chances. We make it too easy for them early on and as Monty said it turns into a “party atmosphere”.

You think? (That’s not meant to sound arsey btw, genuinely intrigued).

When I think about us getting results against the old firm I tend to think of the better and more attacking Hibs teams/performances that almost went toe to toe with them and carried a real attacking threat. When I think of us trying to frustrate them and playing well I normally think we still end up conceding.

[Winston Ingram]

I'd give him 4/10.

I think we have a better squad that the results we're getting.

I know he said our 442 system is flexible but it looks just like any other 442 that I've seen.

Midfield gets outnumbered and we have 2 centre forwards pretty much spectatting.

I also can't get my head around his use of Boyle. No idea what the idea is using him at left midfield but I guarantee you, the opposition managers are absolutely delighted he's being played there.

[Smartie]

You think? (That’s not meant to sound arsey btw, genuinely intrigued).

When I think about us getting results against the old firm I tend to think of the better and more attacking Hibs teams/performances that almost went toe to toe with them and carried a real attacking threat. When I think of us trying to frustrate them and playing well I normally think we still end up conceding.

It's normally about knowing when to be tight and when to open up. Normally you have to do a bit of both over 90 minutes.

I remember the match thread vs Celtic in (??) May being a treat, as the game flipped and whilst some were losing it at one point we ended up winning.

From memory in that game I think we started off keeping it tight and conceded, which didn't go down well. We did open up later in the game though, when the time was right.

I'm not convinced starting games against them too open is a great idea, I'm in favour of keeping it tighter in games versus Rangers and Celtic (and arguably Hearts and Aberdeen) than we have at times lately, but if we get to a stage later in the game if we're up, level or just a goal down then that is imo the time to open up a bit more and go for it.

Personally I reckon Monty's approach versus the "other teams" is great, and a breath of fresh air. Those are absolutely not the times for negativity, our season's success will be determined by how many points we pick up in those games mainly and I think those games are better served by being aggressive and very much playing on the front foot. As result of that, I still think he's going to do very well at Hibs. Not all managers have "got" that and it has been to their cost.

[Smartie]

I'd give him 4/10.

I think we have a better squad that the results we're getting.

I know he said our 442 system is flexible but it looks just like any other 442 that I've seen.

Midfield gets outnumbered and we have 2 centre forwards pretty much spectatting.

I also can't get my head around his use of Boyle. No idea what the idea is using him at left midfield but I guarantee you, the opposition managers are absolutely delighted he's being played there.

When it doesn't work, that's the way it doesn't work, for sure.

But every formation has it's Achilles heel. I can't tell you how many frustrating afternoons I've had watching Hibs try to play a 433/451 where the central striker is isolated and we can't get the ball to him. Or he drops deep to get involved, we work the ball wide then the cross comes in to an empty box.

I thought 442 was dead tbh so I'm interested to see how it works out over another full round of fixtures.

And I'm not all that convinced about the strength of our squad tbh. We certainly have a lot of good attacking players but if we were to go to something like 451, I'm still not convinced we can get a great midfield out of it. And he's been relatively lucky with injuries so far too.

[Winston Ingram]

When it doesn't work, that's the way it doesn't work, for sure.

But every formation has it's Achilles heel. I can't tell you how many frustrating afternoons I've had watching Hibs try to play a 433/451 where the central striker is isolated and we can't get the ball to him. Or he drops deep to get involved, we work the ball wide then the cross comes in to an empty box.

I thought 442 was dead tbh so I'm interested to see how it works out over another full round of fixtures.

And I'm not all that convinced about the strength of our squad tbh. We certainly have a lot of good attacking players but if we were to go to something like 451, I'm still not convinced we can get a great midfield out of it. And he's been relatively lucky with injuries so far too.

I recognise the isolated 451 that you talk about but with players like Boyle and Youan up there with a CF, that's not something that should happen now.

Instead, we have 2 CF's up there isolated cos we're outnumbered in midfield and struggle to keep the ball. Add to that, we've got our 2 best attackers playing a lot deeper.

With Boyle and Youan as our wide players, this squad is made for 433. From what I've seen of this 442, it looks as dead as ever.

Drop a striker, get Levitt in midfield instead and we'll be miles better.

[BoomtownHibees]

I also can't get my head around his use of Boyle. No idea what the idea is using him at left midfield but I guarantee you, the opposition managers are absolutely delighted he's being played there.

Boyle has probably played on the right just as much as on the left since Monty came in. He played the entire game on the right on Saturday for example (and was hopeless)

[HIBS NUTS]

He’s a breath of fresh air, after the previous two slavers, the vibe by the players is better, the training is more intense.
When you speak to people at HTC , it’s like a weight has been lifted, LJ in general wasent liked, and Maloney was on a different planet.
For once give a hibs manager time, to sort things out, play the formations, and players he sees everyday, because there is a lot to sort out.

[Smartie]

I recognise the isolated 451 that you talk about but with players like Boyle and Youan up there with a CF, that's not something that should happen now.

Instead, we have 2 CF's up there isolated cos we're outnumbered in midfield and struggle to keep the ball. Add to that, we've got our 2 best attackers playing a lot deeper.

With Boyle and Youan as our wide players, this squad is made for 433. From what I've seen of this 442, it looks as dead as ever.

Drop a striker, get Levitt in midfield instead and we'll be miles better.

On paper it certainly looks like it should be but I was pretty disconcerted by how badly they had worked out during the 3 consecutive losses at the start of the season. St Mirren did a cracking job of stopping our midfield getting the ball to Youan and Boyle and the Livi game was similarly abject. I'm not sure that replacing Johnson with Monty and doing exactly what failed in those games is the solution we've been looking for.

The key to us having a successful 433 is a Scott Allan type imo and I'm not sure Levitt is that player - he looks like a deep alternative to either Newell or Jeggo (Newell and Jeggo I'm happy with at the base of any midfield btw). 442 with a striker who doesn't do much defending dropping off isn't a kick in the arse off a 451 with an attacking midfielder but I'm just not convinced we've got the attacking midfielder or the crafty, passing 2nd striker who drops off.

442 is definitely doomed to fail at Tynecastle and Ibrox imo and I wouldn't be using it there unless we were a couple of goals down with little to lose and I'm not convinced I'd be using it against Celtic either. I could easily see it being useful at home against lesser teams though and I'm interested to see how it does work over a larger sample of games. I can't say I'm 100% convinced but I'm willing to see it given a shot, just because I'm way less convinced than yourself about how 433 works out with our current players...

[Donegal Hibby]

What about the gulf in quality and wage bill/money spent?

People are acting like when we play 451 against the old firm we have success. We’ve been poor against both of them for years, minus the off result here and there.

The same people moaning about not playing 451 will be the same that come along saying Vente, ALF and Doidge can’t play up top by themselves etc

The gulf in quality and wage/money spent should come into it , we know there so much better which is why the manager should be treating these games differently and not exactly the same as playing Dundee or st Johnstone.

Playing the 451at Ibrox we might have still got beat or any other formation too though we could definitely had made it harder for them to beat us . We made it easy for them imo .

They had more shots at our goal than they did against Aberdeen, Livvy and Motherwell. Motherwell had more shots than us , as did Aberdeen , even Livvy had a extra shot on target than us with two ! One shot on target with 4 attacking players on who were pretty anonymous. It actually could have been a lot worse than 4 , could have been 6 or 7 . The attacking 442 didn't work and it was naive to play it at Ibrox imo .

Our upcoming game against Celtic is the toughest we could have though hopefully Monty will try something different than how he set us up at Ibrox . Would be nice to see us being harder to beat and putting up more of a fight ! 🤞

[Since452]

St Mirren, Hearts and Rangers have all cut through us with ease. Is that due to the set up?, individual errors or better teams? In fairness to Mongomery it was still an issue before he arrived. I expect Celtic to beat us fairly comfortably and i expect to beat Ross County. The big barometer will be the Aberdeen semi. We seem to have had Aberdeens number for a while now and i've always felt it's been very comfortable against them even in the games we haven't won. If they turn us over in the semi final then it's clearly not working. He's said he's not changing his system so it's giving teams a whole week to work us out.

[CapitalGreen]

St Mirren, Hearts and Rangers have all cut through us with ease. Is that due to the set up?, individual errors or better teams? In fairness to Mongomery it was still an issue before he arrived. I expect Celtic to beat us fairly comfortably and i expect to beat Ross County. The big barometer will be the Aberdeen semi. We seem to have had Aberdeens number for a while now and i've always felt it's been very comfortable against them even in the games we haven't won. If they turn us over in the semi final then it's clearly not working. He's said he's not changing his system so it's giving teams a whole week to work us out.

Yet in 6 attempts the only team who have worked out how to beat us are the team with 10x our budget.

[B.H.F.C]

St Mirren, Hearts and Rangers have all cut through us with ease. Is that due to the set up?, individual errors or better teams? I expect Celtic to beat us fairly comfortably and i expect to beat Ross County. The big barometer will be the Aberdeen semi. We seem to have had Aberdeens number for a while now and i've always felt it's been very comfortable against them even in the games we haven't won. If they turn us over in the semi final then it's clearly not working. He's said he's not changing his system so it's giving teams a whole week to work us out.

I didn’t think Hearts cut through us with ease. They scored an absolute worldly and from a second phase at a corner. The battering we apparently took from them was overplayed. We didn’t play well for an hour but we weren’t getting cut open time and time again. St Mirren also cut us open far more first day of the season than they did in the cup game. I think in the cup game they had three shots and scored with two.

There is a combination of everything involved. We have played various shapes this season and rarely been solid. The 442 has been what we have played for some of our better results though. Sometimes it’ll work, sometimes it won’t.

Biggest issue for me is that we still have a number of players, particularly defensively, who are just no very good.

[GreenArmy1875]

We are trying to attack. Getting bodies forward will always create gaps. Defensively we aren't strong enough to deal with those gaps. If Monty gets it right defensively with players good enough then we will be a real force. He has to play this way regardless of our weaknesses to drill into the players this is how we play. Top managers don't adapt their style and continue to develop their squad to find the near perfect team.

[Donegal Hibby]

We are trying to attack. Getting bodies forward will always create gaps. Defensively we aren't strong enough to deal with those gaps. If Monty gets it right defensively with players good enough then we will be a real force. He has to play this way regardless of our weaknesses to drill into the players this is how we play. Top managers don't adapt their style and continue to develop their squad to find the near perfect team.

I don't entirely agree with the last part .Some top managers don't have to adapt their style because they are so much better than everyone else , like when Ange was at Celtic for instance though when in Europe against better teams they didn't do as well sticking to the same way of playing .

Even if we had better players in our team and we play with four attackers and two fullbacks who are playing as wingers at Ibrox or parkhead we are still going to get a doing as they are always going to have better quality players anyhow. Going all out in attack at the old firm isn't the answer imo .

[richard_pitts]

We are trying to attack. Getting bodies forward will always create gaps. Defensively we aren't strong enough to deal with those gaps. If Monty gets it right defensively with players good enough then we will be a real force. He has to play this way regardless of our weaknesses to drill into the players this is how we play. Top managers don't adapt their style and continue to develop their squad to find the near perfect team.

It's 8/10 for me. We are better organised and have a game plan. Compared to the opening two league games of the season, that feels like serious progress in itself.

We have done well against Killie and St Mirren, both of whom are in pretty good form. 442 gets our best players on the park in a formation that suits. It is getting the best out of what we have got. If we play in a certain way, teams will set up to contain us and we will have to learn how to play against that. The Man U team of 1999 played 442 all the time, but tactically things were changed from game to game.

I think we need a left-sided midfielder and possibly a left back and another centre half. I see Youan as a partner for Vente up front but i don't think anyone else can play left mid. Alf cannot play every game. The defence looks better organised and we have obviously worked hard to stop crosses but i think we need better.

[matty_f]

I didn’t think Hearts cut through us with ease. They scored an absolute worldly and from a second phase at a corner. The battering we apparently took from them was overplayed. We didn’t play well for an hour but we weren’t getting cut open time and time again. St Mirren also cut us open far more first day of the season than they did in the cup game. I think in the cup game they had three shots and scored with two.

There is a combination of everything involved. We have played various shapes this season and rarely been solid. The 442 has been what we have played for some of our better results though. Sometimes it’ll work, sometimes it won’t.

Biggest issue for me is that we still have a number of players, particularly defensively, who are just no very good.

Good post.

[Northernhibee]

Decent. Tough to know how far ahead of us Rangers are due to the new manager bounce, so willing to write that one off.

Looking forward to seeing what players he brings in over the winter.

[Real Emerald]

Alarm bells ringing after his team and tactics at Ibrox I must say. In his defence we have a very limited pool of midfielders but he could have moved things around a bit to give us a bit more strength in there. It’s worrying he thought that Newell practically on his own was going to dominate the Rangers midfield at Ibrox.

I still think McInnes would have been a safer bet in consistency and I fear he will end up at Tynie very soon.

He needs to bring his own players in of course but that on Saturday was naive and concerning.

[Donegal Hibby]

St Mirren, Hearts and Rangers have all cut through us with ease. Is that due to the set up?, individual errors or better teams? In fairness to Mongomery it was still an issue before he arrived. I expect Celtic to beat us fairly comfortably and i expect to beat Ross County. The big barometer will be the Aberdeen semi. We seem to have had Aberdeens number for a while now and i've always felt it's been very comfortable against them even in the games we haven't won. If they turn us over in the semi final then it's clearly not working. He's said he's not changing his system so it's giving teams a whole week to work us out.

I think it is the set up tbh , Killie game it was plain to be seen in and Lowrys first chance was another case of us getting caught with players out of position.

Playing the same set up at Ibrox was naive and because he says he not changing the system we will do it again probably this weekend too in a game that we should be trying to keep tight that's basically about damage limitation anyhow rather than going gung ho in .

Teams will find ways at times to get the better of our system or there will be certain games it isnt working to good for us in , always good to have a plan B though I don't know if we're going to see one tbh ! .

[Real Emerald]

I think it is the set up tbh , Killie game it was plain to be seen in and Lowrys first chance was another case of us getting caught with players out of position.

Playing the same set up at Ibrox was naive and because he says he not changing the system we will do it again probably this weekend too in a game that we should be trying to keep tight that's basically about damage limitation anyhow rather than going gung ho in .

Teams will find ways at times to get the better of our system or there will be certain games it isnt working to good for us in , always good to have a plan B though I don't know if we're going to see one tbh ! .

442 is ok if you have 4 midfielders but we were playing with Vente, Boyle, Youan and ALF with Newell and Jeggo in midfield. It was never going to work. We spent most of the game passing back to Marshall as we had no midfield to take the ball. Any manager (or fan even) in Scotland could see that as a huge naive mistake. As I said, we are limited with what we have but that was asking for disaster.

[Eyrie]

442 is ok if you have 4 midfielders but we were playing with Vente, Boyle, Youan and ALF with Newell and Jeggo in midfield. It was never going to work. We spent most of the game passing back to Marshall as we had no midfield to take the ball. Any manager (or fan even) in Scotland could see that as a huge naive mistake. As I said, we are limited with what we have but that was asking for disaster.

Exactly. We're effectively playing 4-2-4 with the current personnel, and to be fair those are our best players in their best positions and it's an approach that will generally work and entertain against half the league.

That doesn't make it suitable for playing the Ugly Sisters.

[Billy Whizz]

Exactly. We're effectively playing 4-2-4 with the current personnel, and to be fair those are our best players in their best positions and it's an approach that will generally work and entertain against half the league.

That doesn't make it suitable for playing the Ugly Sisters.

Considering the 2 wide in players in Boyle and Youan, are more comfortable going forward than defending
You’ve got to give Monty credit for thinking he can pull it off, but Saturday was a rude awakening for him

[Paulie Walnuts]

Exactly. We're effectively playing 4-2-4 with the current personnel, and to be fair those are our best players in their best positions and it's an approach that will generally work and entertain against half the league.

That doesn't make it suitable for playing the Ugly Sisters.

I’m not sure it’s Youan or Boyles best positions. They’re much better suited to being part of a front 3 imo.

[thebausburst]

He’s trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Whole back line, including the keeper, is nowhere near good enough and playing out from the back just exposes their limitations even more. Levitt and Joe are the basis of a decent midfield, but we’ve needed a Scott Brown enforcer type since we let Gogic go which in hindsight was clearly a mistake with no one better lined up. Front 3 have the ability, as they have shown, still worries me that Monty sees something in Jair who is clearly nowhere near good enough. Overall, currently we’re a mid table team which is likely where we will finish, conceding too many goals rarely results in any form of success on the pitch and that remains the biggest problem imo.

[Donegal Hibby]

He’s trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. Whole back line, including the keeper, is nowhere near good enough and playing out from the back just exposes their limitations even more. Levitt and Joe are the basis of a decent midfield, but we’ve needed a Scott Brown enforcer type since we let Gogic go which in hindsight was clearly a mistake with no one better lined up. Front 3 have the ability, as they have shown, still worries me that Monty sees something in Jair who is clearly nowhere near good enough. Overall, currently we’re a mid table team which is likely where we will finish, conceding too many goals rarely results in any form of success on the pitch and that remains the biggest problem imo.

I agree the defense could be strengthen and maybe the whole backline including the keeper aren't good enough though it's basically the same keeper and back four that narrowly missed out on 4th place on the last game last year . If we had we'd have only been 3points of 3rd .Fine margins I suppose.

Part of the problem for me with the defense is the midfield either getting overrun or disappearing which isn't helping too.

The playing out from the back was another aspect of the system Monty played at Ibrox that just didn't work against the quality of players sevco have . Trying to play out from the back against Celtic with quick players like maeda , kyogo probably won't either.

Don't really agree with McManus normally though there's a lot here I do agree with.
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/tam-mcmanus-tells-nick-montgomery-27977343

[Since452]

I agree the defense could be strengthen and maybe the whole backline including the keeper aren't good enough though it's basically the same keeper and back four that narrowly missed out on 4th place on the last game last year . If we had we'd have only been 3points of 3rd .Fine margins I suppose.

Part of the problem for me with the defense is the midfield either getting overrun or disappearing which isn't helping too.

The playing out from the back was another aspect of the system Monty played at Ibrox that just didn't work against the quality of players sevco have . Trying to play out from the back against Celtic with quick players like maeda , kyogo probably won't either.

Don't really agree with McManus normally though there's a lot here I do agree with.
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/tam-mcmanus-tells-nick-montgomery-27977343

McManus hits the nail on the head there. The boy Lowry had an absolute field day against us in the derby before going off. Our midfield is far too exposed and the better teams in the league will expose that. I can see us doing OK against bottom six teams when we have lots of the ball but struggling against the better ones. The danger is us slipping in to the bottom six ourselves around split time which for this squad and the money we've spent would be shambolic.

[Donegal Hibby]

McManus hits the nail on the head there

I think so too though reading this one I fear we are going to play exactly the same way again this weekend which would be worrying.
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/lessons-learned-in-ibrox-loss-can-help-us-topple-celtic-hibs-boss-4384053

[JohnM1875]

McManus hits the nail on the head there. The boy Lowry had an absolute field day against us in the derby before going off. Our midfield is far too exposed and the better teams in the league will expose that. I can see us doing OK against bottom six teams when we have lots of the ball but struggling against the better ones. The danger is us slipping in to the bottom six ourselves around split time which for this squad and the money we've spent would be shambolic.

Or we stick with it regardless of opposition, get better at playing this way as a team so we don't continue to get exposed in midfield. The only way to get better at it is to stick with it. Don't just chuck it cause we've had a a wee wobble.

[Hibernian Verse]

McManus hits the nail on the head there. The boy Lowry had an absolute field day against us in the derby before going off. Our midfield is far too exposed and the better teams in the league will expose that. I can see us doing OK against bottom six teams when we have lots of the ball but struggling against the better ones. The danger is us slipping in to the bottom six ourselves around split time which for this squad and the money we've spent would be shambolic.

The split is in 6 months. Plenty time to stick with it, tweak it and get better at it.

[The Modfather]

Or we stick with it regardless of opposition, get better at playing this way as a team so we don't continue to get exposed in midfield. The only way to get better at it is to stick with it. Don't just chuck it cause we've had a a wee wobble.

I can see the merit in debating about changing from a 442 against the Old Firm, but less so those questioning it overall. Ibrox was Montgomery’s first defeat and definitely lessons to be learned.

However playing 442 also saw us get pegged back at Killmarmock after an excellent first half, get a point at Tynecastle and beat St Mirren, who are flying, in the cup. Those 3 teams are currently 3rd, 4th & 5th and the 3 results were all on merit.

It’s fair to suggest alternative formations and horses for courses and all that. However Montgomery has inherited a squad that lost to every team in the league last season, and which lost its first 3 league games this season. The quality and personnel is the constant, and the real issue IMO. Numerous different formation’s didn’t stop us losing to every team in the league last season.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Or we stick with it regardless of opposition, get better at playing this way as a team so we don't continue to get exposed in midfield. The only way to get better at it is to stick with it. Don't just chuck it cause we've had a a wee wobble.

Or we pick a more sensible formation and stick with that instead.

I honestly cannot see how a manager can be naive enough to think he can take over a mid table team and play 4-4-2 with 2 wingers in every game and expect to do well with it. It’s destined to fail.

I like quite a bit about Montgomery, but 4-4-2 will finish him off before he even gets started if he sticks with it every week imo. The squad he’s inherited won’t be helping him mind you.

[flash]

Or we pick a more sensible formation and stick with that instead.

I honestly cannot see how a manager can be naive enough to think he can take over a mid table team and play 4-4-2 with 2 wingers in every game and expect to do well with it. It’s destined to fail.

I like quite a bit about Montgomery, but 4-4-2 will finish him off before he even gets started if he sticks with it every week imo.

How can he fail to succeed when he has countless poundshop Guardiolas pointing out the error of his ways?

Maybe worth remembering that he got the job because of the success he had using this formation.

[Paulie Walnuts]

How can he fail to succeed when he has countless poundshop Guardiolas pointing out the error of his ways?

Maybe worth remembering that he got the job because of the success he had using this formation.

Ah yes, the classic ‘nobody is allowed to have an opinion unless they hold equal or higher qualifications’ patter.

He maybe did. It will not work here though, I’ve little doubt about that.

[JohnM1875]

Ah yes, the classic ‘nobody is allowed to have an opinion unless they hold equal or higher qualifications’ patter.

He maybe did. It will not work here though, I’ve little doubt about that.

You know it won't work here because we've lost against Sevco using it and we'll likely lose to Celtic using it as well? May as well just abandon every formation and chuck it then.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You know it won't work here because we've lost against Sevco using it and we'll likely lose to Celtic using it as well? May as well just abandon every formation and chuck it then.

No, I know it won’t work here because it’ll leave us completely outnumbered in the middle of the park with two central midfielders who lack the quality to be able to cope with that and leaves our two best players in Boyle and Youan playing deeper than their best positions. It also leaves our defence, which is already desperately poor, completely exposed.

I also have said similar about 4-4-2 before when people have suggested it previously under different managers, so it’s certainly nothing to do with Montgomery personally or the fact we’ve got Rangers and Celtic back to back.

Theres a reason next to nobody plays 4-4-2 and there’s a reason even less teams play it with two wingers. It’s pish. You’ll maybe get away with it if you’re Celtic and you have the 11 best players on the park, you won’t get away with it when you’re Hibs and you’re playing teams either very similar to you in standard or above you in standard.

[Donegal Hibby]

You know it won't work here because we've lost against Sevco using it and we'll likely lose to Celtic using it as well? May as well just abandon every formation and chuck it then.

You said in a previous post we should stick with it in order to get better at it . It didn't work against Sevco and we were badly beaten 4-0 which could/ should have been 6 or 7 !.

Now we have the league leaders to play who have far better attacking players and generally a lot better than Sevco and you honestly think we should stick with it for this game ? . We could end up taking a worse doing than we did at parkhead last year ! Would be madness to go with the same system against Celtic imo .

I'm not saying we should abandon it , there's a time when we can genuinely play that way against your st johnstones, Dundee's etc but there's also times when trips to parkhead or Ibrox it would be good to have another option. Its disappointing if we are going to be a one trick pony under Monty with no plan B tbh .

[JohnM1875]

You said in a previous post we should stick with it in order to get better at it . It didn't work against Sevco and we were badly beaten 4-0 which could/ should have been 6 or 7 !.

Now we have the league leaders to play who have far better attacking players and generally a lot better than Sevco and you honestly think we should stick with it for this game ? . We could end up taking a worse doing than we did at parkhead last year ! Would be madness to go with the same system against Celtic imo .

I'm not saying we should abandon it , there's a time when we can genuinely play that way against your st johnstones, Dundee's etc but there's also times when trips to parkhead or Ibrox it would be good to have another option. Its disappointing if we are going to be a one trick pony under Monty with no plan B tbh .

Aye, I think we should stick with it. You said yourself we took a pumping last season at Parkhead. We didn't play 442 did we?

I'd rather we stick to a formation we'll be using going forward to learn how to play it against better opposition.

[Sioux]

Thank goodness we've got expert football analysts on here to teach the professionals how to run a football team.

Champions League here we come.

[flash]

No, I know it won’t work here because it’ll leave us completely outnumbered in the middle of the park with two central midfielders who lack the quality to be able to cope with that and leaves our two best players in Boyle and Youan playing deeper than their best positions. It also leaves our defence, which is already desperately poor, completely exposed.

I also have said similar about 4-4-2 before when people have suggested it previously under different managers, so it’s certainly nothing to do with Montgomery personally or the fact we’ve got Rangers and Celtic back to back.

Theres a reason next to nobody plays 4-4-2 and there’s a reason even less teams play it with two wingers. It’s pish. You’ll maybe get away with it if you’re Celtic and you have the 11 best players on the park, you won’t get away with it when you’re Hibs and you’re playing teams either very similar to you in standard or above you in standard.

Strange then how none of the teams of a similar standard to us have beaten us since we started playing this way.

[easty]

Strange then how none of the teams of a similar standard to us have beaten us since we started playing this way.

That’s one way to look at it I suppose. Another would be, playing this way we couldn’t beat 2 of the worst teams in the league.

I don’t think looking at it either of those ways is helpful though.

[superfurryhibby]

Thank goodness we've got expert football analysts on here to teach the professionals how to run a football team.

Champions League here we come.

Ken, totally bizarre that football fans would discuss their teams tactics and formations on a football fan forum. Whatever next :greengrin

[Stuart93]

Thank goodness we've got expert football analysts on here to teach the professionals how to run a football team.

Champions League here we come.

May as well shut hibs net down then as 99% of us don’t qualify for an opinion

Monty’s made a no bad start. 6/10. Needs to turn draws into wins. Needs to shore up the team defensively as we’re conceding far too many shots in games.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Strange then how none of the teams of a similar standard to us have beaten us since we started playing this way.

Alternatively you could look at it and say we’ve picked up 1.2PPG in our league games so far playing it which over the course of a season wouldn’t come close to getting top 4 or even matching our total from last season.

If you’re happy with just not getting beat at home by the likes of Dundee and think that avoiding defeat to the likes of them is vindication for the system we play then bash on.

[B.H.F.C]

Alternatively you could look at it and say we’ve picked up 1.2PPG in our league games so far playing it which over the course of a season wouldn’t come close to getting top 4 or even matching our total from last season.

And PPG for games with other formations?

[Paulie Walnuts]

And PPG for games with other formations?

Is 0, under another manager who was pretty undeniably hopeless. Being better than the guff LJ served up in his 3 league games this season but poorer than what he delivered last season is hardly a ringing endorsement of 4-4-2.

[Donegal Hibby]

Aye, I think we should stick with it. You said yourself we took a pumping last season at Parkhead. We didn't play 442 did we?

I'd rather we stick to a formation we'll be using going forward to learn how to play it against better opposition.

No your right we didn't play 442 though we did get our tactics wrong in being to attacking which lead to us getting pumped,there was a different approach applied in the 2nd trip ( 5 at the back) there and it almost worked ,it certainly wasn't anywhere near as bad as the first trip there ! .

We have played this formation against teams like st Johnstone , Dundee , St Mirren etc and have had some success though thinking we are going to have the same success at Ibrox with it is totally naive management tbh .

You seen yourself what happened in they didn't really allow us to play out from the back , our four attackers were cut off from any decent service and the midfield overrun ! . Lucky to get away with only losing 4 tbh .

If we play the same way again there's only going to be one outcome and that's not just a defeat but probably a severe pumping with us losing at least 4 again. If that happens your looking at us losing at least 8 goals to the old firm in 2
matches which would suggest to me what we should really have learnt from it is to find another way to play the old firm .

[B.H.F.C]

Is 0, under another manager who was pretty undeniably hopeless. Being better than the guff LJ served up in his 3 league games this season is hardly a ringing endorsement in itself.

We were hardly going to turn in to Man City over night.

Some of the chat on formation isn’t without merit. Some of it, as if it’s the main cause of all our issues is ridiculous though. Particularly when we’ve lost one game playing it. If we’re sitting here in 3 or 4 months time and we’re still only gaining 1.2 PPG playing it, then there is a conversation to be had. But no after 5 games.

[CapitalGreen]

Is 0, under another manager who was pretty undeniably hopeless. Being better than the guff LJ served up in his 3 league games this season but poorer than what he delivered last season is hardly a ringing endorsement of 4-4-2.

Bit early to say we are poorer than what LJ delivered last season isn’t it?

In LJs first visit to Kilmarnock last season we lost 1-0, Monty drew 2-2
In LJs first visit to Tynie last season we lost 3-0, Monty drew 2-2
In LJs first home game against St Johnstone we lost 2-1, Monty won 2-0
Both lost on their first visit to Ibrox.

LJ got knocked out of the league cup to lower league teams in the group stages while Monty won his quarter final tie against an inform St Mirren.

Monty took 5 points from 12 compared to LJs 0 in the equivalent fixtures last season.

[Since452]

I think so too though reading this one I fear we are going to play exactly the same way again this weekend which would be worrying.
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/lessons-learned-in-ibrox-loss-can-help-us-topple-celtic-hibs-boss-4384053

Well reading that, he aint changing it anytime soon. Lots of positives to take, very much in the game, 4 or 5 good chances to score. Sounds like 4-0 was a bit harsh :dunno:

[Paulie Walnuts]

We were hardly going to turn in to Man City over night.

Some of the chat on formation isn’t without merit. Some of it, as if it’s the main cause of all our issues is ridiculous though. Particularly when we’ve lost one game playing it. If we’re sitting here in 3 or 4 months time and we’re still only gaining 1.2 PPG playing it, then there is a conversation to be had. But no after 5 games.

Nobody has said it’s the main cause of all our issues.

It’s been acknowledged over and over by numerous people that the squad isn’t good enough. It’s been acknowledged that the defence isn’t good enough and that we lack numbers and/or quality in certain areas.

On top of that, there’s a discussion about the merits of 4-4-2. And that discussion isn’t purely based on 5 games, it’s not even purely based on Hibs themselves or Nick Montgomery, a lot of the discussion has been about the general concept of a 4-4-2 in football as a whole.

It’s not a case of expecting us to turn into Man City over night, but more a case of expecting us to play a formation that will give us a decent chance of success. In mine and some others opinions, 4-4-2 is one of the least likely systems to do that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Bit early to say we are poorer than what LJ delivered last season isn’t it?

In LJs first visit to Kilmarnock last season we lost 1-0, Monty drew 2-2
In LJs first visit to Tynie last season we lost 3-0, Monty drew 2-2
In LJs first home game against St Johnstone we lost 2-1, Monty won 2-0
Both lost on their first visit to Ibrox.

LJ got knocked out of the league cup to lower league teams in the group stages while Monty won his quarter final tie against an inform St Mirren.

Monty took 5 points from 12 compared to LJs 0 in the equivalent fixtures last season.

In terms of results, we are. That’s not to say I think we actually are a poorer side, like you said, it’s too early to say, but the results haven’t been great under Monty, neither have a good few of the performances and imo our insistence on playing 4-4-2 is a part of that. The players we have at our disposal of course is another part of it.

[Winston Ingram]

I agree the defense could be strengthen and maybe the whole backline including the keeper aren't good enough though it's basically the same keeper and back four that narrowly missed out on 4th place on the last game last year . If we had we'd have only been 3points of 3rd .Fine margins I suppose.

Part of the problem for me with the defense is the midfield either getting overrun or disappearing which isn't helping too.

The playing out from the back was another aspect of the system Monty played at Ibrox that just didn't work against the quality of players sevco have . Trying to play out from the back against Celtic with quick players like maeda , kyogo probably won't either.

Don't really agree with McManus normally though there's a lot here I do agree with.
https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/tam-mcmanus-tells-nick-montgomery-27977343

McManus is bang on there

[CapitalGreen]

In terms of results, we are. That’s not to say I think we actually are a poorer side, but the results haven’t been great under Monty, neither have a good few of the performances and imo our insistence on playing 4-4-2 is a part of that. The players we have at our disposal of course is another part of it.

What do you mean “in terms of results we are”? What is this based on? A sample size of 5 league games?

You can’t extrapolate results from 5 games and compare it to a 38 game season as if it’s like for like. LJ only played the Old Firm away 3 times (8% of league games) while last Saturdays visit to Ibrox makes up 20% of your sample.

[KeithTheHibby]

May as well shut hibs net down then as 99% of us don’t qualify for an opinion

Monty’s made a no bad start. 6/10. Needs to turn draws into wins. Needs to shore up the team defensively as we’re conceding far too many shots in games.

1 defeat in 7 and only 6/10? Very low score.

[Billy Whizz]

3rd highest goal scorers in the league, and the most goals against, suggest the balance isn’t tight

[ancient hibee]

That’s one way to look at it I suppose. Another would be, playing this way we couldn’t beat 2 of the worst teams in the league.

I don’t think looking at it either of those ways is helpful though.

Is one of these teams Dundee who beat Hearts-something we couldn't do?

[WhileTheChief..]

Ken, totally bizarre that football fans would discuss their teams tactics and formations on a football fan forum. Whatever next :greengrin

It's the new normal this season.

You don't get accused of being an 'expert' if you think the tactics or formations are sound, it's only for those with differing opinions on things!!

[Donegal Hibby]

McManus is bang on there

Yeah , hard to disagree with anything he said there .

[Donegal Hibby]

Thank goodness we've got expert football analysts on here to teach the professionals how to run a football team.

Champions League here we come.

I don't think anyone's claiming to be a expert football analyst though we do all have different opinions on our club and without discussing them on a football forum it would be a very boring place , wouldn't it not?

[Gordy M]

Alternatively you could look at it and say we’ve picked up 1.2PPG in our league games so far playing it which over the course of a season wouldn’t come close to getting top 4 or even matching our total from last season.

If you’re happy with just not getting beat at home by the likes of Dundee and think that avoiding defeat to the likes of them is vindication for the system we play then bash on.

Since he came in, what results do you think have been bad results. Dundee il give you, but we created enough chancss to win that game twice over. Killie away, hearts away, seen us lose those games too many times, and Rangers away? I think he has had a pretty decent start.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Since he came in, what results do you think have been bad results. Dundee il give you, but we created enough chancss to win that game twice over. Killie away, hearts away, seen us lose those games too many times, and Rangers away? I think he has had a pretty decent start.

To be clear, I’ve already said I think he’s done ok. I think it would be hard to argue much more than that imo.

Killie was poor having been 2-0 up, as was Dundee. Hearts was good given we were 2-0 behind. St J and St Mirren are pretty much how they should have been and Rangers was to be expected although I would have wanted us to be more competitive.

[JimBHibees]

To be clear, I’ve already said I think he’s done ok. I think it would be hard to argue much more than that imo.

Killie was poor having been 2-0 up, as was Dundee. Hearts was good given we were 2-0 behind. St J and St Mirren are pretty much how they should have been and Rangers was to be expected although I would have wanted us to be more competitive.

That will be unbeaten St Mirren who had already beaten us at home. Thought we were good against Dundee and should have won by two or three.

[Fergus52]

No, I know it won’t work here because it’ll leave us completely outnumbered in the middle of the park with two central midfielders who lack the quality to be able to cope with that and leaves our two best players in Boyle and Youan playing deeper than their best positions. It also leaves our defence, which is already desperately poor, completely exposed.

I also have said similar about 4-4-2 before when people have suggested it previously under different managers, so it’s certainly nothing to do with Montgomery personally or the fact we’ve got Rangers and Celtic back to back.

Theres a reason next to nobody plays 4-4-2 and there’s a reason even less teams play it with two wingers. It’s pish. You’ll maybe get away with it if you’re Celtic and you have the 11 best players on the park, you won’t get away with it when you’re Hibs and you’re playing teams either very similar to you in standard or above you in standard.

442 = bad is so reductive.

I won't rehash the debate about fluidity and our actual shape in possession from the other thread - But you're saying no one uses 442 when it's one of the most common shapes to defend with off the ball and press - I've seen Arsenal, Liverpool, Brighton, Villa all use it effectively the last couple of seasons when defending.

In possession some of those sides might look a bit more like a 4231 or 433, but with how deep our second striker has been coming in possession our system often looks close to a 4231 as well.

You can mention the budgets and quality of players those sides have compared to us, but there's still recent examples of teams punching well above their weight budget wise playing a 442 with two wingers and two strikers - look at Burnley finishing 5th playing that way.

I understand the arguments saying that it could be tweaked to be more defensively solid, with one of Boyle or youan playing up front and a more defensive wide player on one wing, nor not having both full backs push so high and wide as soon as we get the ball.

But saying we'll do badly as long as we play 442 is nonsense, especially in this day and age where formations are basically meaningless - teams are much more flexible with positions and shape, depending on the phase of play and where the ball is, compared to 10 or 20 years ago. It's most apparent recently with sides like arsenal and city but it's been filtering down to all levels - periods under jack Ross there was folk arguing on match day threads about whether we'd played a 442, 352, or 433.

[JimBHibees]

442 = bad is so reductive.

I won't rehash the debate about fluidity and our actual shape in possession from the other thread - But you're saying no one uses 442 when it's one of the most common shapes to defend with off the ball and press - I've seen Arsenal, Liverpool, Brighton, Villa all use it effectively the last couple of seasons when defending.

In possession some of those sides might look a bit more like a 4231 or 433, but with how deep our second striker has been coming in possession our system often looks close to a 4231 as well.

You can mention the budgets and quality of players those sides have compared to us, but there's still recent examples of teams punching well above their weight budget wise playing a 442 with two wingers and two strikers - look at Burnley finishing 5th playing that way.

I understand the arguments saying that it could be tweaked to be more defensively solid, with one of Boyle or youan playing up front and a more defensive wide player on one wing, nor not having both full backs push so high and wide as soon as we get the ball.

But saying we'll do badly as long as we play 442 is nonsense, especially in this day and age where formations are basically meaningless - teams are much more flexible with positions and shape, depending on the phase of play and where the ball is, compared to 10 or 20 years ago. It's most apparent recently with sides like arsenal and city but it's been filtering down to all levels - periods under jack Ross there was folk arguing on match day threads about whether we'd played a 442, 352, or 433.

Completely agree

[A Hi-Bee]

442 = bad is so reductive.

I won't rehash the debate about fluidity and our actual shape in possession from the other thread - But you're saying no one uses 442 when it's one of the most common shapes to defend with off the ball and press - I've seen Arsenal, Liverpool, Brighton, Villa all use it effectively the last couple of seasons when defending.

In possession some of those sides might look a bit more like a 4231 or 433, but with how deep our second striker has been coming in possession our system often looks close to a 4231 as well.

You can mention the budgets and quality of players those sides have compared to us, but there's still recent examples of teams punching well above their weight budget wise playing a 442 with two wingers and two strikers - look at Burnley finishing 5th playing that way.

I understand the arguments saying that it could be tweaked to be more defensively solid, with one of Boyle or youan playing up front and a more defensive wide player on one wing, nor not having both full backs push so high and wide as soon as we get the ball.

But saying we'll do badly as long as we play 442 is nonsense, especially in this day and age where formations are basically meaningless - teams are much more flexible with positions and shape, depending on the phase of play and where the ball is, compared to 10 or 20 years ago. It's most apparent recently with sides like arsenal and city but it's been filtering down to all levels - periods under jack Ross there was folk arguing on match day threads about whether we'd played a 442, 352, or 433.

Had a quick look through this thread and thought at first we was talking about a chess game, football is a simple game, get the ball to the bye line cut it back for your forwards to bang it in the net. If we do this more time than the others we win.
Simples.
:greengrin

[Paulie Walnuts]

I understand the arguments saying that it could be tweaked to be more defensively solid, with one of Boyle or youan playing up front and a more defensive wide player on one wing, nor not having both full backs push so high and wide as soon as we get the ball.

I’ve specifically said numerous times that my belief is based on if we continue to play 4-4-2 with two wingers..

[A Hi-Bee]

Monty is not for changing and I have faith in Monty.
Its a simple game.
:thumbsup:

[neil7908]

After Ibrox I had concerns about his rigidity for these big games, especially when I saw the team against Celtic.

But that was a great point and fantastic to get a clean sheet against the best team in the country.

It feels like we have a pretty settled starting 11, with some decent options to come off the bench, and a couple of youngsters coming through.

What excites me is that he's improved us without bringing any of his own players in.

We still have weaknesses at GK (although maybe Jojo will be the answer), CB, DM and another striker/wide player wouldn't go amiss.

But I like that the fullbacks now look settled, Fish is doing well, our CM partnership is performing, and the front 4 have goals in them.

I don't know what our budget will be like in January but we are can keep ourselves pushing for 3rd/4th and bring in 2 or 3 players, I can see us having a great end to the season.