Rocky Bushiri

[Donegal Hibby]

Thought he was good today and won more than his fair share of aerial duels . I'd have probably took Fish off instead of him today in all fairness. I seen he came in for some critism when we were losing which once again I totally don't understand . I think Monty likes him because he really puts a shift in for the team and covers so much ground .
Well done Rocky 👏

[truehibernian]

Agree 👍 struggling to know what he did wrong today. Was solid as was Will Fish. We lost the midfield first half but we certainly didn’t lose goals down to our centre halves - they defended well today 👍

[Dashing Bob S]

Growing in stature and starting to look like a real lynchpin. Another player who has visibly improved under Montgomery and I think he'll continue to do so.

[Blaster]

He can’t dive forward on his left side. Heads the ball out of play under no pressure. Defensively actually had a few decent blocks but we’re in trouble if he’s our long term answer

[JohnM1875]

He was fine after a really shaky start.

Play a ball over the top and he's generally struggling. They did that today and it cut to Naebadges and he mouthed 'he's (Rocky) all over the place) and at the time he wasn't wrong.

[wookie70]

Defensively I thought he had a good game. However, he can't play left centre half when we are trying to build from the back. He basically stopped us from building anything time after time in the first half before being a bit braver in the second half and taking the space in front of him and getting more of a hand from Joe and Jeggo. Hard to understand how he plays in front of Hanlon particularly in this system.

[BILLYHIBS]

I like Rocky

I like Hanlon

I feel that Monty should pick one and stick with him for the 90 minutes especially if they have played well

It is ok playing about with your midfield and your forwards but your defence is your defence

Changes unnecessarily disrupt your mindset your concentration and that of your teammates and can play into the hands of the opposition

I remember we took Rocky off against St Mirren in a similar scenario and we lost a goal almost immediately

[SHODAN]

He was fine. Goals were a wonder strike and a deflection, not a lot anyone could do.

[B.H.F.C]

He was terrible. First mistake after about two minutes to let Lowry in..

Their crowd were giving the sarcastic cheers every time he was on the ball. Says a lot.

Think his attitude is great but nobody around me at the game thought he played well.

[blackpoolhibs]

He was fine today, it has nothing to do with him that were two goals down.

[truehibernian]

He was terrible. First mistake after about two minutes to let Lowry in..

Their crowd were giving the sarcastic cheers every time he was on the ball. Says a lot.

Think his attitude is great but nobody around me at the game thought he played well.

They know nothing about football then - he had a couple of shanked clearances but didn’t put a foot wrong thereafter - they need their eyes tested 👍 isn’t it a bonus he didn’t let those jeers put him off his game ? He played well today - simple as that, and anyone saying otherwise is perpetuating an agenda 👍

[CapitalGreen]

If NM wants us to play out from the back, we really need someone who is comfortable using their left foot at LCB.

[jabis]

Thought he was good today and won more than his fair share of aerial duels . I'd have probably took Fish off instead of him today in all fairness. I seen he came in for some critism when we were losing which once again I totally don't understand . I think Monty likes him because he really puts a shift in for the team and covers so much ground .
Well done Rocky 👏

Good call.

[Unseen work]

Ball over the top in the first half where he was caught out a bit / midfield never followed the runner.

Header out of play second half.

Other than than I can’t think of what he done wrong.

There was a bit of play in the first half I thought if that was Porteous there would be a thread about it. On the left touchline he got the ball, turned to go back to Marshall and the pass was cut off, turned to go forward and there was nothing on, he then turned back and as he was pressed turned away from the opposition and played a nice slide pass into newells play. Played through the press and took a couple out of play with his bravery.

Shankland also hardly done a thing all game and considering they were apparently targeting him, he done well imo.

[Donegal Hibby]

Agree 👍 struggling to know what he did wrong today. Was solid as was Will Fish. We lost the midfield first half but we certainly didn’t lose goals down to our centre halves - they defended well today 👍

Agree about losing the midfield in the first half and imo towards the end of the match aswell , we couldn't seem to get possession or any control at times which put our defence under extra pressure though both Fish and Rocky done
well 👍.

[CapitalGreen]

Thought he was good today and won more than his fair share of aerial duels . I'd have probably took Fish off instead of him today in all fairness. I seen he came in for some critism when we were losing which once again I totally don't understand . I think Monty likes him because he really puts a shift in for the team and covers so much ground .
Well done Rocky 👏

You’d have taken Fish off!?

81 touches - Most in the game
11 clearances - Most in the game
3 interceptions - Most in the Hibs team
100% successful tackles
75% defensive aerials won

[Allant1981]

He was terrible. First mistake after about two minutes to let Lowry in..

Their crowd were giving the sarcastic cheers every time he was on the ball. Says a lot.

Think his attitude is great but nobody around me at the game thought he played well.

Not a chance he was terrible

[Baldy Foghorn]

Thought he was good today and won more than his fair share of aerial duels . I'd have probably took Fish off instead of him today in all fairness. I seen he came in for some critism when we were losing which once again I totally don't understand . I think Monty likes him because he really puts a shift in for the team and covers so much ground .
Well done Rocky 👏

Agreed

[basehibby]

They know nothing about football then - he had a couple of shanked clearances but didn’t put a foot wrong thereafter - they need their eyes tested 👍 isn’t it a bonus he didn’t let those jeers put him off his game ? He played well today - simple as that, and anyone saying otherwise is perpetuating an agenda 👍

Perpetuating an agenda is the main reason Rocky continues to get pelters from some quarters despite having come on leaps and bounds from when we first signed him. There seem to be some folk that get married to their opinion once expressed and do not understand the concept of learning and improvement.

[Unseen work]

You’d have taken Fish off!?

81 touches - Most in the game
11 clearances - Most in the game
3 interceptions - Most in the Hibs team
100% successful tackles
75% defensive aerials won


I’m not saying Fish was good or bad, but some stats are nonsense.

100% successful tackles?

He completely wiped out Vargas in the first half with a slide tackle and never got the ball.

That’s just one that springs to mind.

[truehibernian]

I’m not saying Fish was good or bad, but some stats are nonsense.

100% successful tackles?

He completely wiped out Vargas in the first half with a slide tackle and never got the ball.

That’s just one that springs to mind.

Good - I want my players to wipe an opponent player out - sets the tone he was punished for it with a yellow. After that, what did WF do wrong ?

What did Vargas do after that ? Hee haw 👍

[B.H.F.C]

They know nothing about football then - he had a couple of shanked clearances but didn’t put a foot wrong thereafter - they need their eyes tested 👍 isn’t it a bonus he didn’t let those jeers put him off his game ? He played well today - simple as that, and anyone saying otherwise is perpetuating an agenda 👍

I don’t have and agenda but I don’t think he played well.

[truehibernian]

I don’t have and agenda but I don’t think he played well.

Well you definitely need your eyes tested 👍 Rocky played very well today and did his job very well !

[Donegal Hibby]

You’d have taken Fish off!?

81 touches - Most in the game
11 clearances - Most in the game
3 interceptions - Most in the Hibs team
100% successful tackles
75% defensive aerials won

I probably would have tbh and moved Rocky to RCB and Hanlon to LCB . Nothing to do with Fish's performance btw ,he was good today also , it was merely down to him having a yellow card and Rocky not .

[B.H.F.C]

Well you definitely need your eyes tested 👍 Rocky played very well today and did his job very well !

Patronising as ****.

Why did he get subbed when game was on a knife edge?

Did the folk round you at the game think he was good. Was a unanimous opinion round me.

[MWHIBBIES]

He was terrible. First mistake after about two minutes to let Lowry in..

Their crowd were giving the sarcastic cheers every time he was on the ball. Says a lot.

Think his attitude is great but nobody around me at the game thought he played well.

Those poo flinging troglodytes cheering him says absolutely **** all. Wouldn't know a ****ing footballer if one hit them in the face.

[Hiber-nation]

Rocky was alright but we need better and a left footer.

[Crunchie]

Rocky was alright but we need better and a left footer.

We'll always need and strive for better but Rocky was fine today despite the scaremongering about having to play a left footed CH he proved them all wrong.

The defence had its shakiest period when he went off and Hanlon came on.

[B.H.F.C]

Those poo flinging troglodytes cheering him says absolutely **** all. Wouldn't know a ****ing footballer if one hit them in the face.

Nae idea what this means.

[BoomtownHibees]

We'll always need and strive for better but Rocky was fine today despite the scaremongering about having to play a left footed CH he proved them all wrong.

The defence had its shakiest period when he went off and Hanlon came on.

Did we no lose 2 goals with Rocky on the park and lost 0 after he got taken off?

[Unseen work]

Good - I want my players to wipe an opponent player out - sets the tone he was punished for it with a yellow. After that, what did WF do wrong ?

What did Vargas do after that ? Hee haw 👍

I’m more pointing out that the stats were incorrect other than his actual performance.

He, like Rocky imo, had good and bad moments.

Off the top of my head there was a moment in the first half where he let it bounce, flicked it in-between two players, and then played it to a hearts player where we were almost countered. In the second half not long after kick off he put it out of play under no pressure, then a couple of times he ran into the space but got caught on the ball.

All things that if Rocky done, he’d get a new thread about him.

That’s not meant to bash Fish btw as overall I thought he was decent and defended well, but I think at times there’s a quickness to put the boot into Rocky for every mistake, despite others doing similar.

But the back 4 handled the Hearts front 3 very well imo, the main player for them that stood out was Lowry.

[silverhibee]

Rocky was alright but we need better and a left footer.

Do you not think Rocky won’t get better with good coaches coaching him through games, the lad has potential to go on and be a very good player imo.

[Crunchie]

Did we no lose 2 goals with Rocky on the park and lost 0 after he got taken off?
A wonder strike and a deflection, I can't remember any scrambling about in the defence like there was after he went off.

[Crunchie]

Do you not think Rocky won’t get better with good coaches coaching him through games, the lad has potential to go on and be a very good player imo.
:aok:

[StockholmHibs]

Nae idea what this means.

The "poo flinging troglodytes" was a reference to the Hearts fans jeering Rocky, I think

[matty_f]

Did we no lose 2 goals with Rocky on the park and lost 0 after he got taken off?

We did, but the same can also be said about Doidge, Marshall, and Jeggo.

We also scored 2 while he was on the park and scored 0 once he was off.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don’t have and agenda but I don’t think he played well.

You couldnt have watched the match then, every player today will have done something wrong during the game, he did more than most the right things.

[Forza Fred]

Confess to having concerns over Rocky starting ahead of Hanlon but Rocky performed adequately as it turned out.

[EVENTUALLY]

You’d have taken Fish off!?

81 touches - Most in the game
11 clearances - Most in the game
3 interceptions - Most in the Hibs team
100% successful tackles
75% defensive aerials won

Will Fish was Hibs best player IMHO and I thought Forrest had a much more effective game than Lowry who was wasteful and like a wee laddie who didnae have enough strength in his legs to kick a corner kick or cross into the penalty area.


Rocky was absolutely fine too.

[JimBHibees]

They know nothing about football then - he had a couple of shanked clearances but didn’t put a foot wrong thereafter - they need their eyes tested 👍 isn’t it a bonus he didn’t let those jeers put him off his game ? He played well today - simple as that, and anyone saying otherwise is perpetuating an agenda 👍

Absolutely he was fine. Nowhere near terrible.

[B.H.F.C]

You couldnt have watched the match then, every player today will have done something wrong during the game, he did more than most the right things.

Plenty players did plenty wrong for the first hour. Thread is specifically about Rocky though and I simply didn’t think he played well.

[Trinity Hibee]

Generally not a massive fan of Rocky but he certainly wasn’t at fault for either of their goals yesterday. Thought he did pretty well

[BILLYHIBS]

Plenty players did plenty wrong for the first hour. Thread is specifically about Rocky though and I simply didn’t think he played well.

Can only think of two Rocky errors first half when he let the ball bounce and when he played the ball out to no one into the dugouts

My laddie was at the game and he thought he was terrible ‘too many mistakes’ he said

NM picks the team and he obviously sees some potential as he keeps picking him

Rocky is the future and if he keeps improving we should get a nice fee hopefully

[blackpoolhibs]

Plenty players did plenty wrong for the first hour. Thread is specifically about Rocky though and I simply didn’t think he played well.

Then i suggest you face the park next time you watch a game.

[Allant1981]

Plenty players did plenty wrong for the first hour. Thread is specifically about Rocky though and I simply didn’t think he played well.

There's a difference between not playing well(still think you are wrong) and being terrible like you suggested. He definitely wasn't terrible

[500miles]

I knew when he got caught under the ball and headed it out he could have played like prime Ramos for the rest of the game, there would still be a contingent adamant he was garbage.

He was good, defensively we were good. What we weren't was pro active enough.

I was watching via the Internet. Can anyone tell me if the weather had dried out on the second half? We seemed to get the ball under control a beat earlier across the park which helped.

[B.H.F.C]

Then i suggest you face the park next time you watch a game.

What a stupid comment because someone doesn’t share your opinion. Clown. Must have been plenty around me not facing the park as plenty shared my opinion.

[blackpoolhibs]

There's a difference between not playing well(still think you are wrong) and being terrible like you suggested. He definitely wasn't terrible
Exactly, i was one of those who was worried that he was starting over Hanlon, it turned out i need not have worried as Rocky was fine, indeed better than fine.

[Heisenberg]

Was very worried about him before the game but that moment in the first half aside I thought he was fine.

[B.H.F.C]

There's a difference between not playing well(still think you are wrong) and being terrible like you suggested. He definitely wasn't terrible

I’ll actually concede saying terrible was possibly a bit over the top. I think starting a thread saying he played well on the back of yesterdays performance is also over the top though. There are too many instances with Rocky where he’s just not aware of what’s happening round about him.

[BILLYHIBS]

One moment in the first half looked as though he was boxed in by the yams with no options but after a feint a wee dummy and a swivel he turned and played the perfect ball out to Newell in space

The boy has potential I tell ye just needs folk to get onside

[greenlex]

Rockys a decent enough player. Unfortunately I think his brain isn’t as quick as his body. If it was just a few seconds faster he would be very very good.

[Golden Bear]

Do you not think Rocky won’t get better with good coaches coaching him through games, the lad has potential to go on and be a very good player imo.

:agree:


Rocky was absolutely fine yesterday.

[Hibee Mac]

Rocky had a good game yesterday I thought. He's slowly winning me back over, just needs to keep improving his positional sense and he could be a great defender.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Donegal Hibby]

I’ll actually concede saying terrible was possibly a bit over the top. I think starting a thread saying he played well on the back of yesterdays performance is also over the top though. There are too many instances with Rocky where he’s just not aware of what’s happening round about him.

Thread was started because he did play well and after some of the criticism he's had which has been abit OTT I thought it was worth mentioning that he had done well ! .

Yesterday when we went behind he was getting blamed for it in he shouldn't be anywhere near the the team even though he done nothing wrong.

You have stated he was at fault for Lowery's chance at the start which imo wasn't his fault either .

Rocky is only 23 years which is still a young player who has improved since joining us and has the potential to improve even more with the right coaching , he could very well become a very important player for us and as fans we should be supporting him rather than making him a scapegoat for anything and everything that goes wrong .

[Victor]

Good - I want my players to wipe an opponent player out - sets the tone he was punished for it with a yellow. After that, what did WF do wrong ?

What did Vargas do after that ? Hee haw [emoji106]

Vargas constantly fouled and should have been sent off! But you’re right after Fish’s tackle he did nothing constructive. In the words of Corporal Jones - “they don’t like it up ‘em”


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[B.H.F.C]

Thread was started because he did play well and after some of the criticism he's had which has been abit OTT I thought it was worth mentioning that he had done well ! .

Yesterday when we went behind he was getting blamed for it in he shouldn't be anywhere near the the team even though he done nothing wrong.

You have stated he was at fault for Lowery's chance at the start which imo wasn't his fault either .

Rocky is only 23 years which is still a young player who has improved since joining us and has the potential to improve even more with the right coaching , he could very well become a very important player for us and as fans we should be supporting him rather than making him a scapegoat for anything and everything that goes wrong .

I didn’t think he played well yesterday. As I say, happy to concede that terrible was a bit of an exaggeration on my part and he wasn’t at fault for either goal conceded. I think he makes far too many small errors in games that all add up and cause uncertainty for us though. If you don’t think he was at fault for misjudging the ball and not being aware of where Lowry was early on in the game then fair enough, I think that’s just blatantly ignoring something. Your position is pretty clear on Rocky as shown with some of your lengthy debates on him and that’s clearly not going to change.

[jacomo]

He can’t dive forward on his left side. Heads the ball out of play under no pressure. Defensively actually had a few decent blocks but we’re in trouble if he’s our long term answer


He’s young and has potential to improve long term, no?

I mean, Porto made mistakes but got better and better as time went on.

[Blaster]

He’s young and has potential to improve long term, no?

I mean, Porto made mistakes but got better and better as time went on.

Well let’s hope so. I’ll be delighted if that is the case. At the moment though he gives me the fear

[McSwanky]

Rockys a decent enough player. Unfortunately I think his brain isn’t as quick as his body. If it was just a few seconds faster he would be very very good.I said pretty much exactly that yesterday. But I still have hope that with experience, that quick thinking will improve.

Reckon there's not much to choose between Rocky and Hanlon in the manager's eyes, but Rocky is improving whilst Hanlon hit his peak a few years ago. I can see why he's playing Rocky ahead of Hanlon just now.

I also think the wheels will be in motion to bring in a decent central defender in the near future.

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[Donegal Hibby]

I didn’t think he played well yesterday. As I say, happy to concede that terrible was a bit of an exaggeration on my part and he wasn’t at fault for either goal conceded. I think he makes far too many small errors in games that all add up and cause uncertainty for us though. If you don’t think he was at fault for misjudging the ball and not being aware of where Lowry was early on in the game then fair enough, I think that’s just blatantly ignoring something. Your position is pretty clear on Rocky as shown with some of your lengthy debates on him and that’s clearly not going to change.

I think most players in our team make small errors at times in games and I don't remember Rocky making to many yesterday tbh .

The Lowry chance at the start he is tracking a hertz player out on the left side , he's basically covering once again for our fullback who imo is caught out of position due to a long ball down the left side, the bounce does beat him and the hertz player too and lands perfectly to Lowry who's behind Rocky. I don't think Rocky was ever going to be able to track two players at the one time in fairness.

I suppose my position on Rocky is I don't think he's nearly as bad as some folk are making him out to be and some of the criticism he's been getting is unfair. I think there's some that are just waiting to beat the guy with a stick for anything no matter how trivial which was clear as day to me yesterday when we went behind btw .

[brydekirk]

If NM wants us to play out from the back, we really need someone who is comfortable using their left foot at LCB.

Agree

[Since452]

Glad Rocky is first choice. He's only 23 and will only get better.

[shetlandhibee]

I didn’t think he played well yesterday. As I say, happy to concede that terrible was a bit of an exaggeration on my part and he wasn’t at fault for either goal conceded. I think he makes far too many small errors in games that all add up and cause uncertainty for us though. If you don’t think he was at fault for misjudging the ball and not being aware of where Lowry was early on in the game then fair enough, I think that’s just blatantly ignoring something. Your position is pretty clear on Rocky as shown with some of your lengthy debates on him and that’s clearly not going to change. spot on Hanlon was in spfl team of the week from last weekend surprised he didn’t start yesterday defensively far better with PH in team , Rocky back up for me 👌👍✔️

[silverhibee]

Rockys a decent enough player. Unfortunately I think his brain isn’t as quick as his body. If it was just a few seconds faster he would be very very good.

Out with the old and in with the new blood, looks like Rocky will be a starter under the new manager which I am happy for the manager to do, the only strange thing for me is taking Rocky off for Hanlon when there is no need for that change to be made.

[BILLYHIBS]

Out with the old and in with the new blood, looks like Rocky will be a starter under the new manager which I am happy for the manager to do, the only strange thing for me is taking Rocky off for Hanlon when there is no need for that change to be made.

Said the exact same on an earlier post

Makes no sense

Pick Hanlon or Rocky and stick with them for 90 minutes

Rocky didn’t look best pleased

[CapitalGreen]

Out with the old and in with the new blood, looks like Rocky will be a starter under the new manager which I am happy for the manager to do, the only strange thing for me is taking Rocky off for Hanlon when there is no need for that change to be made.

Probably because our defensive record is considerably better when Rocky is off the pitch and he wanted to reduce the likelihood of us conceding a 3rd goal.

[McGruber]

I think most players in our team make small errors at times in games and I don't remember Rocky making to many yesterday tbh .

The Lowry chance at the start he is tracking a hertz player out on the left side , he's basically covering once again for our fullback who imo is caught out of position due to a long ball down the left side, the bounce does beat him and the hertz player too and lands perfectly to Lowry who's behind Rocky. I don't think Rocky was ever going to be able to track two players at the one time in fairness.

I suppose my position on Rocky is I don't think he's nearly as bad as some folk are making him out to be and some of the criticism he's been getting is unfair. I think there's some that are just waiting to beat the guy with a stick for anything no matter how trivial which was clear as day to me yesterday when we went behind btw .

I would rather have started Hanlon but in the end Rocky was okay, some mistakes on the ball but Fish was the same. Rocky is sometimes a bit nieve with his positioning and he was out chasing wide too often. As you say, a lot of that being due to the wide players not tracking back and leaving him short.
The Lowry chance you mentioned is a case in point. Yes he was left exposed 2 on 1 but in that instance you've got to pick up the man in the middle where the bigger threat is and leave the one wide. That will come with experience. I like Rocky, he is still developing his game though and gives us the occasional heart palpitation. That's why I'd have preferred Hanlon in the derby but same time I don't mind us bringing Rocky on.

[Gmack7]

He still looks awkward to me when trying to head the ball which isn't grest for a CB, but he has improved other areas of his game and is also a unit who covers the ground well.
Better coaching and he may be a good player for us over a number of years

[BILLYHIBS]

I would have preferred Hanlon over Rocky on Saturday for his experience

Rocky has become a divisive figure amongst our support his first season he was scary second season he kicked on and appears to have kicked on again

The Manager appears to prefer Rocky and he does have youth on his side a physical presence can get about the park is very fit bags of energy and is quick though as everyone has pointed out there are areas of his game that still need to be improved upon

Will be interesting to see who starts versus The Rangers

[Donegal Hibby]

I would rather have started Hanlon but in the end Rocky was okay, some mistakes on the ball but Fish was the same. Rocky is sometimes a bit nieve with his positioning and he was out chasing wide too often. As you say, a lot of that being due to the wide players not tracking back and leaving him short.
The Lowry chance you mentioned is a case in point. Yes he was left exposed 2 on 1 but in that instance you've got to pick up the man in the middle where the bigger threat is and leave the one wide. That will come with experience. I like Rocky, he is still developing his game though and gives us the occasional heart palpitation. That's why I'd have preferred Hanlon in the derby but same time I don't mind us bringing Rocky on.

It was a tough call between the two players who got to start and I'd have probably went for Hanlon as well though happy with either also .I think Rocky is the type of CB that will give us the occasional heart palpitation tbh , he's more adventurous than Fish or Hanlon and at times reminds me of Ambrose the way he drives forward with the ball , Porto also did too .

I think one of the reasons Rocky did get the nod for starting is because Monty probably thought he'd put a better shift in and cover more ground for the team than Hanlon which I thinks down to our style of play now .

Seen in a few games now Obita / Stevenson and Miller pushing forward with Rocky going out as a LB and Fish as a RB with both Newell / Jeggo dropping deep . Which is what happened in the Lowry chance at the start . We simply got caught by a long ball down the left and Rocky was far to exposed against 2 players also happened in the Killie game too.

Hard to know who Rocky should have picked up on the Lowry chance, if he had tracked Lowry and left the other player and he managed to control the ball he'd also be driving into our box and Rocky would be getting blamed for not picking him up then too though you could be right about picking Lowry up instead though the ball did take a wicked bounce in all fairness too . It wasn't a easy one for Rocky to deal with imo .

[Vini1875]

Rocky for sure has a loty to learn. I am hoping we get a left footed center back, who is an improvement on both RB and PH. The problem with Rocky for me is with the ball at his feet, when he has to pass to Obita or Stevenson. He is either too slow, too much time to think, lacking in confidence or just doesn't want to put the ball. Whatever the problem is, it halts our attacking options on the left.

I have no problem with NM giving minutes to various players in the same position, it shouldn't mean they are doing something worng, just that the whole squad can as many minutes on the park as possible.

[Donegal Hibby]

Out with the old and in with the new blood, looks like Rocky will be a starter under the new manager which I am happy for the manager to do, the only strange thing for me is taking Rocky off for Hanlon when there is no need for that change to be made.

I was looking at the four games Rocky has played since Monty has became manager , played the the full 90 minutes against killie, St Johnstone 81 minutes in 2-0 win , St mirren cup game he played 74 minutes were we lost a goal 2 minutes after he was substituted which might back up your point that it's strange taking him off when there's no need to make the change though he is really putting a shift in and covering a lot of ground so maybe it's just a case of fresh legs coming on in his place late on .I think he was probably rested with the derby in mind and give Hanlon some game time .

It's 10 for and 6 against in the last 4 games he's started . I know folk want to blame him for the 2 Killie goals which isn't something I entirely agree with though if we look at the other 4 we have lost I don't think Rocky has been anyway at fault with any of them so I don't think he's done much wrong since Monty's became manager.

[The Captain....]

Rocky's got some good attributes..strength..good in the air.. but he's going to have to very rapidly improve on his weaknesses.

Every game where he's played he's targeted by the opposition whether its dragging him out of position or balls over the top or simply letting him have the ball at the back.

The manager sees something in him obviously so going to have to trust that he'll bring him on and smooth out the rough edges.

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[silverhibee]

Probably because our defensive record is considerably better when Rocky is off the pitch and he wanted to reduce the likelihood of us conceding a 3rd goal.

Why did he not just start with Hanlon then, get it you don’t rate Rocky but the manager obviously does and thinks he is a better shout than Paul.

[Dmas]

Rocky's got some good attributes..strength..good in the air.. but he's going to have to very rapidly improve on his weaknesses.

Every game where he's played he's targeted by the opposition whether its dragging him out of position or balls over the top or simply letting him have the ball at the back.

The manager sees something in him obviously so going to have to trust that he'll bring him on and smooth out the rough edges.

Sent from my SM-S906B using Tapatalk

He’s targeted by the opposition because they are of the belief he’s some kind of bombscare CB, he’s not made a glaring/stupid error in a long long time now they only have that belief because a) the lads off bbc sports Scotland don’t rate him and hammer him just for being bushiri and b) our own fans still give him grief for errors he’s made ages ago.

I’m actually of the belief Hanlon is a better option still than Rocky, however the manager sees it differently and we’re needing to get off the guys back and let him play his game and support the guy he hasn’t let us down it shouldn’t be difficult to get behind him

[Since452]

The only way Rocky is going to reach his potential is by playing every week. He's only 23 and is nowhere near the finished article yet. He's younger than Ryan Porteous who people gave chance after chance after chance after silly mistakes to put it in context. Hanlon on the other hand has reached his potential and will be on the natural decline. Rocky has all the attributes to become a lot better than Hanlon but he needs to play to get there. He's doing fine.

[Brightside]

The only way Rocky is going to reach his potential is by playing every week. He's only 23 and is nowhere near the finished article yet. He's younger than Ryan Porteous who people have chance after chance after chance for silly mistakes to put it in context. Hanlon on the other hand has reached his potential and will be on the natural decline. Rocky has all the attributes to become a lot better than Hanlon but he needs to play to get there. He's doing fine.
A lot better than Hanlon? May as well reach for the stars eh.

[Since90+2]

A lot better than Hanlon? May as well reach for the stars eh.

A lot better is probably stretching things a bit, but I get the general point. Hanlon, at his age, is only going to regress whereas Rocky is young enough to have improvements.

I don't think there's much between them at the moment but when you factor in that Rocky has scope for improvement Incan see why NM is playing him ahead of Hanlon.

[Brightside]

A lot better is probably stretching things a bit, but I get the general point. Hanlon, at his age, is only going to regress whereas Rocky is young enough to have improvements.

I don't think there's much between them at the moment but when you factor in that Rocky has scope for improvement Incan see why NM is playing him ahead of Hanlon.
Rocky doesn’t have the basic ability to ever be better than Hanlon. You don’t suddenly learn the basics in your 20s. He’s fine but he’s never an LCB.

[BILLYHIBS]

As a support we really need to get behind Rocky

There is not a lot between Hanlon and Rocky just now as others have pointed out Hanlon’s star is fading and Rocky is progressive

Struggling to think of any serious errors from Rocky this season tbh

He has stopped that stupid falling over on the ball when slightly impeded that Porto was so famous for

The St Mirren striker Olusanya ran Hanlon ragged in the first game of the season but didn’t have the same joy against Rocky in the cup

I can see Rocky kicking on becoming a cult hero and earning us a tidy sum if he continues natural progression

Saying that also happy if Hanlon starts another Hibee hero

[BoomtownHibees]

He has stopped that stupid falling over on the ball when slightly impeded that Porto was so famous for


You’re forgetting Killie

[BILLYHIBS]

You’re forgetting Killie

Was a push then he stood on the ball

Ask Monty

[BoomtownHibees]

Was a push then he stood on the ball

Ask Monty

Soft as **** going over

[BILLYHIBS]

Soft as **** going over

Would have been a Killie foul at the other end

Agree was soft … needs to stay on his feet cannot put it down to hope the Ref is going to give it

He has obviously been told and has listened

[Since90+2]

Rocky doesn’t have the basic ability to ever be better than Hanlon. You don’t suddenly learn the basics in your 20s. He’s fine but he’s never an LCB.

He's got other attributes that are superior to Hanlon though. We all know you think Hanlon is the second coming of Beckenbaur but it's not beyond the realms of possiblity that Rocky could go on to become a better centre half than him (I don't think he is currently, they're about the same level IMO).

Montgomery has obviously seen enough of the two of them to make the call Rocky is the better option currently. That's good enough for me.

[easty]

Was a push then he stood on the ball

Ask Monty

:faf:

[Since452]

https://youtu.be/1H1WDDtfSqw?si=Purz4qscFR_YamLm

The man who ran the other way. Keatings MK2.

[Donegal Hibby]

Soft as **** going over

Should have been stronger , yes , still a foul though which Monty said ! . He has since played against St Johnstone, St mirren and hertz and he's been good in all of them . Why is something which wasn't all that bad from weeks ago still being used as a stick to beat him with ?

[BILLYHIBS]

Should have been stronger , yes , still a foul though which Monty said ! . He has since played against St Johnstone, St mirren and hertz and he's been good in all of them . Why is something which wasn't all that bad from weeks ago still being used as a stick to beat him with ?

Still had to defend the corner and they scored

Sh€t happens

[BILLYHIBS]

He's got other attributes that are superior to Hanlon though. We all know you think Hanlon is the second coming of Beckenbaur but it's not beyond the realms of possiblity that Rocky could go on to become a better centre half than him (I don't think he is currently, they're about the same level IMO).

Montgomery has obviously seen enough of the two of them to make the call Rocky is the better option currently. That's good enough for me.

Monty picks the team so we got to go with it be it Hanlon or Rocky and give them both our support and stop this Rocky bombscare rubbish

Still don’t know what he was doing Saturday getting pulled out wide though 😂

[Allant1981]

Rocky doesn’t have the basic ability to ever be better than Hanlon. You don’t suddenly learn the basics in your 20s. He’s fine but he’s never an LCB.

What a daft thing to suggest, plenty of players have improved with age and experience, bushiri has clearly been progressing since he first started with us so nothing to suggest he won't get even better, the manager clearly thinks bushiri is the better option just now as well

[B.H.F.C]

He's got other attributes that are superior to Hanlon though. We all know you think Hanlon is the second coming of Beckenbaur but it's not beyond the realms of possiblity that Rocky could go on to become a better centre half than him (I don't think he is currently, they're about the same level IMO).

Montgomery has obviously seen enough of the two of them to make the call Rocky is the better option currently. That's good enough for me.

For me, the way Monty sets up is why he picks Rocky. With us being so open I think he wants that pace and strength to try and give us a bit more cover, which Rocky clearly has over Hanlon.

I still think Fish and Hanlon are the best partnership we have and, post LJ, we’ve kept clean sheets in the two games they’ve started together. I say post LJ as I’ll excuse them all (Rocky included) from that early part of the season when goals were flying in against us regardless of who was playing such was the shambles.

[Donegal Hibby]

Still had to defend the corner and they scored

Sh€t happens

Agreed , corner was poorly defended, man on the post would have cleared it too ! . Wither it's Hanlon or Rocky that's playing we should just support them and not be trying to knock them down at every opportunity.

[superfurryhibby]

[QUOTE=Brightside;7484999]Rocky doesn’t have the basic ability to ever be better than Hanlon. You don’t suddenly learn the basics in your 20s. He’s fine but he’s never an LCB.[/QU


I recall Paul Hanlon being of questionable value for a good few years after he became a first team starter. Regularly out muscled by the likes of Michael Higdon, Kris Boyd etc. I think as Hanlon got older and more experienced he found other ways to counter the threat of a big lummox, but let's not delude ourselves that he was the finished article at the same age as Rocky is now.

How do you define basic ability for a defender. Is it competing with big, powerful strikers and not being pushed around by said lumps?

[jacomo]

Rocky doesn’t have the basic ability to ever be better than Hanlon. You don’t suddenly learn the basics in your 20s. He’s fine but he’s never an LCB.


This is a very basic post.

Unless you’ve coached Rocky yourself, how can you know this?

[Since452]

To come through the stick he got during the Maloney era then the "signing by accident" saga is a testament to his strength of character. That's exactly the type i want at Hibs. The manager has clearly seen something in him. I thought he came on massively under LJ and he's continuing that improvement this season. He'll make mistakes as all CH's do. More than comfortable with Rocky in there.

[Since90+2]

[QUOTE=Brightside;7484999]Rocky doesn’t have the basic ability to ever be better than Hanlon. You don’t suddenly learn the basics in your 20s. He’s fine but he’s never an LCB.[/QU


I recall Paul Hanlon being of questionable value for a good few years after he became a first team starter. Regularly out muscled by the likes of Michael Higdon, Kris Boyd etc. I think as Hanlon got older and more experienced he found other ways to counter the threat of a big lummox, but let's not delude ourselves that he was the finished article at the same age as Rocky is now.

How do you define basic ability for a defender. Is it competing with big, powerful strikers and not being pushed around by said lumps?

Darren McGregor wasn't even a professional footballer at the age of 23 and during his prime years, around 2015-2017, went on to become the best centre half we've had at the club in years IMO.

To suggest Rocky can't improve at 23 is clearly not correct.

[BILLYHIBS]

[QUOTE=superfurryhibby;7485049]

Darren McGregor wasn't even a professional footballer at the age of 23 and during his prime years, around 2015-2017, went on to become the best centre half we've had at the club in years IMO.

To suggest Rocky can't improve at 23 is clearly not correct.

I remember LJ saying about a year ago that Rocky’s mental age as a footballer was 19 and the thing he most liked about him was that he listened and was willing to learn to be the best he can be

[Hibernian Verse]

[QUOTE=Since90+2;7485067]

I remember LJ saying about a year ago that Rocky’s mental age as a footballer was 19 and the thing he most liked about him was that he listened and was willing to learn to be the best he can be

I was a fan of LJ until near the end, but when you hear stuff like this...jeezy peeps. Talking about a player's mental age in the press.

[BILLYHIBS]

[QUOTE=BILLYHIBS;7485069]

I was a fan of LJ until near the end, but when you hear stuff like this...jeezy peeps. Talking about a player's mental age in the press.

Sorry might have been football age because for three years he hadn’t trained for three consecutive days on the spin IIRC

Wouldn’t sell him for 10m 😀

[Paulie Walnuts]

Was a push then he stood on the ball

Ask Monty

It was never a foul in a million years.

[BILLYHIBS]

It was never a foul in a million years.

Said it was a foul in real time wasn’t given and we failed to defend the corner

Nothing to do with Rocky who fell in a heap marking his man at the corner

Monty also said it was a foul which is good enough for me as he calls the shots

‘ Rocky was shoved in the back lost his balance and stumbles on the ball ‘

Maybe try supporting the guy ?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Said it was a foul in real time wasn’t given and we failed to defend the corner

Nothing to do with Rocky who fell in a heap marking his man at the corner

Monty also said it was a foul which is good enough for me as he calls the shots

‘ Rocky was shoved in the back lost his balance and stumbles on the ball ‘

Maybe try supporting the guy ?

It was never a foul. I’m not going to pretend it was just so I can claim I’m ’supporting the guy’. He made a stupid decision, it cost us dearly. Me saying that on a forum online has no impact on whether I’m supporting him or not.

[BILLYHIBS]

It was never a foul. I’m not going to pretend it was just so I can claim I’m ’supporting the guy’. He made a stupid decision, it cost us dearly. Me saying that on a forum online has no impact on whether I’m supporting him or not.

Look at my post above it was soft but would have been given in Killie’s favour at the other end no doubt
Rocky needed to stand his ground stay on his feet and has now eradicated the Porto dive from his game
He is a quick learner
Out of interest have you ever posted anything positive about Rocky as I take it you are not a fan ?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Look at my post above it was soft but would have been given in Killie’s favour at the other end no doubt
Rocky needed to stand his ground stay on his feet and has now eradicated the Porto dive from his game
He is a quick learner
Out of interest have you ever posted anything positive about Rocky as I take it you are not a fan ?

It absolutely wouldn’t have been given at the other end because it was never a foul. The suggestion it would have suggests some sort of bias against either Hibs or Rocky in favour of Kilmarnock. I’ve no idea why anyone would be claiming that to be the case.

I’m not sure we can say he’s eradicated the Porto dive from his game when it was only a couple of weeks ago. I’m also toiling to see whether you agree with it being a foul or not. You seem to be saying it was but then going on to call it a dive in the same breath :confused:

I’ve posted positive stuff about Rocky previously, however there hasn’t been a lot of positives so it’s not often. I’m not a fan though so there will have been plenty of what has been imo justified negative stuff. Our record with him playing is atrocious.

[007]

Only Rangers players are guaranteed to get fouls for that (and less).
https://x.com/ryangardiner92/status/1710979576166334501?s=20

[BILLYHIBS]

It absolutely wouldn’t have been given at the other end because it was never a foul. The suggestion it would have suggests some sort of bias against either Hibs or Rocky in favour of Kilmarnock. I’ve no idea why anyone would be claiming that to be the case.

I’m not sure we can say he’s eradicated the Porto dive from his game when it was only a couple of weeks ago. I’m also toiling to see whether you agree with it being a foul or not. You seem to be saying it was but then going on to call it a dive in the same breath :confused:

I’ve posted positive stuff about Rocky previously, however there hasn’t been a lot of positives so it’s not often. I’m not a fan though so there will have been plenty of what has been imo justified negative stuff. Our record with him playing is atrocious.

Happy to go with Monty’s opinion Rocky was shoved in the back lost his balance stumbled on the ball and it went out for a corner

Have you seen the nick of Rocky ? The guy is a unit He would not fall over for nothing You can tell by his reaction to the non award that he could not believe it wasn’t given

Anyway we still had to defend the corner as a team and they scored

You had better get used to Rocky as NM obviously rates him and sees his undoubted potential

Rocky is the future

In Monty we trust

Edit

At no time have I said Rocky dived

At the game the Referee was giving Hibernian very little especially in that second half

Did you go to the game ?

[Smartie]

Rocky doesn’t have the basic ability to ever be better than Hanlon. You don’t suddenly learn the basics in your 20s. He’s fine but he’s never an LCB.

Centre halves can certainly improve well into their twenties. I don't fancy Rocky much as a LCB but I could certainly see him losing a few of his rougher edges with another hundred or so games under his belt and playing on the right of a pairing or in a 3.

Hanlon has always been under-appreciated imo and will take a fair bit of replacing when the time comes, in spite of what many on here think.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Happy to go with Monty’s opinion Rocky was shoved in the back lost his balance stumbled on the ball and it went out for a corner

Have you seen the nick of Rocky ? The guy is a unit He would not fall over for nothing You can tell by his reaction to the non award that he could not believe it wasn’t given

Anyway we still had to defend the corner as a team and they scored

You had better get used to Rocky as NM obviously rates him and sees his undoubted potential

Rocky is the future

In Monty we trust

Edit

At no time have I said Rocky dived

At the game the Referee was giving Hibernian very little especially in that second half

Did you go to the game ?

Why does the size of him matter? Porteous used to throw himself to the ground against guys smaller than him all the time. If Rocky wouldn’t do it for nothing, what’s the cut off in terms of size when players stop going down for nothing?

You said Rocky has now cut out the Porto dives? :confused:

I didn’t go to the game. I watched it live though and could see it wasn’t a foul.

[easty]

Happy to go with Monty’s opinion Rocky was shoved in the back lost his balance stumbled on the ball and it went out for a corner

Have you seen the nick of Rocky ? The guy is a unit He would not fall over for nothing You can tell by his reaction to the non award that he could not believe it wasn’t given

Anyway we still had to defend the corner as a team and they scored

You had better get used to Rocky as NM obviously rates him and sees his undoubted potential

Rocky is the future

In Monty we trust

Edit

At no time have I said Rocky dived

At the game the Referee was giving Hibernian very little especially in that second half

Did you go to the game ?

I went to the game. Dunno how that enhances anyones opinion on it being a dive or otherwise though?

He did fall over (dive) for nothing.

Monty saying he was pushed means nowt to me. I've got eyes.

[BoomtownHibees]

“Rocky needed to stand his ground stay on his feet and has now eradicated the Porto dive from his game”

“At no time have I said Rocky dived”



Come on Billy, make up your mind

[greenlex]

Come on Billy, make up your mind

Two quotes. One in general and the other a specific incident. His mind is in fact made up.

[Donegal Hibby]

The push on Rocky be it slight was a foul , if that's Celtic or Sevco they get a free kick for it all day long .007 has already put up footage of a freekick that souttar got for far less . Rocky didn't cost us the goal either from the corner , poor defending DID !.

In the last 3 games Rocky has played for us he's been good and done nothing wrong, works hard and covers a lot of ground which is probably why folk that don't like him are going back weeks in trying to blame him for something that wasn't really his fault anyhow.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The push on Rocky be it slight was a foul , if that's Celtic or Sevco they get a free kick for it all day long .007 has already put up footage of a freekick that souttar got for far less . Rocky didn't cost us the goal either from the corner , poor defending DID !.

In the last 3 games Rocky has played for us he's been good and done nothing wrong, works hard and covers a lot of ground which is probably why folk that don't like him are going back weeks in trying to blame him for something that wasn't really his fault anyhow.

The Souttar one wasn’t a foul either. That was a blatant dive. That doesn’t make Rocky’s a foul.

[BILLYHIBS]

Why does the size of him matter? Porteous used to throw himself to the ground against guys smaller than him all the time. If Rocky wouldn’t do it for nothing, what’s the cut off in terms of size when players stop going down for nothing?

You said Rocky has now cut out the Porto dives? :confused:

I didn’t go to the game. I watched it live though and could see it wasn’t a foul.

I remember last season when Rocky played with Porto there were a few instances when Rocky would go to ground easily probably copying Porto who was at it all the time a bad habit to pick up and tbf I have not seen Rocky do it this season so far

So I am saying he does have previous 😂

As I said definitely no dive from Rocky a definite shove in the back from Watkins causing him to lose his balance and knock the ball out for a corner

You seem to think Rocky dived and is to blame for the loss of a goal for conceding a needless corner

We still had to defend the corner no matter what way you want to look at it and the Manager is happy Rocky is blameless which is good enough for me

[BoomtownHibees]

Two quotes. One in general and the other a specific incident. His mind is in fact made up.

“Rocky needed to stand his ground stay on his feet” was a comment about the specific incident

[Donegal Hibby]

The Souttar one wasn’t a foul either. That was a blatant dive. That doesn’t make Rocky’s a foul.

It was given though with no contact , there was contact made on Rocky and like what most defenders are doing now is going down and winning a freekick . If the same incident happens when we play the old firm 9 times out of 10 the referee awards a freekick. I've seen similar fouls to Rocky's given quite often when watching games to both defenders and keepers for the least wee bit of contact. It's all pretty irrelevant anyhow as it didn't cost us anything but a corner .

[BILLYHIBS]

I went to the game. Dunno how that enhances anyones opinion on it being a dive or otherwise though?

He did fall over (dive) for nothing.

Monty saying he was pushed means nowt to me. I've got eyes.

Sorry was more to do with his astonishment that any Scottish Referee could be antiHibs

Been watching Hibs for 60 years and nothing changes

[Paulie Walnuts]

It was given though with no contact , there was contact made on Rocky and like what most defenders are doing now is going down and winning a freekick . If the same incident happens when we play the old firm 9 times out of 10 the referee awards a freekick. I've seen similar fouls to Rocky's given quite often when watching games to both defenders and keepers for the least wee bit of contact. It's all pretty irrelevant anyhow as it didn't cost us anything but a corner .

It was given with no contact, if that’s your barometer for Rocky’s being a foul though then literally every moment of a football match could be deemed a foul. You can’t use a situation which was a blatant dive like Souttars as justification for other situations being fouls. Ive seen penalties given when there’s been absolutely zero contact, that doesn’t mean every time someone goes into the box and there’s no contact that it’s a foul. It was simply a terrible decision from the referee to give a foul to Rangers and doesn’t make Rocky’s incident a foul.

It cost us a goal and 2 points. If he dealt with the situation then they don’t get the corner and they don’t score the goal they did.

[easty]

The push on Rocky be it slight was a foul , if that's Celtic or Sevco they get a free kick for it all day long .007 has already put up footage of a freekick that souttar got for far less . Rocky didn't cost us the goal either from the corner , poor defending DID !.



A free kick was incorrectly given in another game, and you think that's some kind of evidence that all dives should get a freekick? That's some logic.

[greenlex]

“Rocky needed to stand his ground stay on his feet” was a comment about the specific incident
Conveniently forgetting the rest of the quote tho where he specifically states he has eradicated the Porto dive from his game. It’s absolutely true he needed to stand his ground better. Nowhere in the quote did he say he dived. No contradiction anywhere.🤷🏼*. Perhaps he just needs to be stronger would have been a better phrase for you?
Anyway. I like Rocky but just wish his brain was a yard sharper.

[Crunchie]

This is a very basic post.

Unless you’ve coached Rocky yourself, how can you know this?

He knows everything didn’t you know that 😂. Joking aside his opinion is blinded by his love for a very average CH. According to him Rocky can’t play LCH which he’s been doing as well as if not better than Hanlon since Nick came in. Long may it continue.

[Brightside]

He knows everything didn’t you know that 😂. Joking aside his opinion is blinded by his love for a very average CH. According to him Rocky can’t play LCH which he’s been doing as well as if not better than Hanlon since Nick came in. Long may it continue.

Nonsense.

[Brightside]

What a daft thing to suggest, plenty of players have improved with age and experience, bushiri has clearly been progressing since he first started with us so nothing to suggest he won't get even better, the manager clearly thinks bushiri is the better option just now as well

You can t suddenly learn to use your left foot if you haven’t done it from a young age. Hanlon needs to be replaced with a left footed player

[Allant1981]

You can t suddenly learn to use your left foot if you haven’t done it from a young age. Hanlon needs to be replaced with a left footed player

That's slightly different to what you suggested though, you said he wasn't good enough to ever be better than hanlon

[Dmas]

How many left footed CH’s we actually had over the years? I can think of Brian Welsh maybe darren dods off the top of my head, why is it so important that it’s a left footed player? does the central midfield pairing need the same?

I like Rocky I think he’s far better a player than given credit for saying that I also believe Hanlon is still the best CH we have at the club, I do agree we should be looking to replace him as he is getting on but I’m also surprised NM has picked Rocky and fish ahead of him especially with the way he wants to play from the back as PH is very good on the ball

[Brightside]

That's slightly different to what you suggested though, you said he wasn't good enough to ever be better than hanlon

At LCB. I’ve said I actually like him as a player.

[sauzeelegod]

I love big Rocky. Only gonna get better too.

[WeeRussell]

Imagine all these budding cannavaros out there that we can’t even take a look at because they prefer their right foot.

What a lot of nonsense.

[Smartie]

How many left footed CH’s we actually had over the years? I can think of Brian Welsh maybe darren dods off the top of my head, why is it so important that it’s a left footed player? does the central midfield pairing need the same?

I like Rocky I think he’s far better a player than given credit for saying that I also believe Hanlon is still the best CH we have at the club, I do agree we should be looking to replace him as he is getting on but I’m also surprised NM has picked Rocky and fish ahead of him especially with the way he wants to play from the back as PH is very good on the ball

Pretty sure Dods was right footed. Fontaine was left footed.

Would we call Zambernardi a centre back?

It’s a total myth that a LCB needs to be left footed. It would help if they weren’t totally one footed though, and there have been plenty of players over the years whose weaker foot has still been pretty decent. Was Fenwick not right-footed but perfectly comfortable playing on the left?

[Since90+2]

How many left footed CH’s we actually had over the years? I can think of Brian Welsh maybe darren dods off the top of my head, why is it so important that it’s a left footed player? does the central midfield pairing need the same?

I like Rocky I think he’s far better a player than given credit for saying that I also believe Hanlon is still the best CH we have at the club, I do agree we should be looking to replace him as he is getting on but I’m also surprised NM has picked Rocky and fish ahead of him especially with the way he wants to play from the back as PH is very good on the ball

Jones was a lefty was he not?

[B.H.F.C]

Pretty sure Dods was right footed. Fontaine was left footed.

Would we call Zambernardi a centre back?

It’s a total myth that a LCB needs to be left footed. It would help if they weren’t totally one footed though, and there have been plenty of players over the years whose weaker foot has still been pretty decent. Was Fenwick not right-footed but perfectly comfortable playing on the left?

I agree with this.

Plenty teams from our level and lower right up to the top level play without a lefty at centre half. I’m an ideal world you’d have one but if not it doesn’t stop you being able to play football. In our case, the way Monty is playing we’re asking them to pass the ball 10 yards most of the time. The days of centre halves being brought up to just lump the ball in the direction they’re facing are long gone as well.

I’m critical of Rocky for plenty as I don’t think he’s a good defender but I don’t think him playing there has really hindered us in passing the ball out from the back. I think he was actually involved somewhere along the line in passing the ball in to midfield in the lead up to our first goal on Saturday.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Jones was a lefty was he not?

He was :agree:

[Brightside]

Pretty sure Dods was right footed. Fontaine was left footed.

Would we call Zambernardi a centre back?

It’s a total myth that a LCB needs to be left footed. It would help if they weren’t totally one footed though, and there have been plenty of players over the years whose weaker foot has still been pretty decent. Was Fenwick not right-footed but perfectly comfortable playing on the left?

I’m just basing it on what almost every manager says.

[Smartie]

I’m just basing it on what almost every manager says.

It's not something I think I've ever heard a manager say.

Of course a left sided centre back is nice to have but they're not all that common, it would appear to my untrained eye that plenty manage to make do with 2 or 3 right footed players.

[shetlandhibee]

Probably because our defensive record is considerably better when Rocky is off the pitch and he wanted to reduce the likelihood of us conceding a 3rd goal.
:top marks:agree:

[Donegal Hibby]

It was given with no contact, if that’s your barometer for Rocky’s being a foul though then literally every moment of a football match could be deemed a foul. You can’t use a situation which was a blatant dive like Souttars as justification for other situations being fouls. Ive seen penalties given when there’s been absolutely zero contact, that doesn’t mean every time someone goes into the box and there’s no contact that it’s a foul. It was simply a terrible decision from the referee to give a foul to Rangers and doesn’t make Rocky’s incident a foul.

It cost us a goal and 2 points. If he dealt with the situation then they don’t get the corner and they don’t score the goal they did.

It just goes to show the ridiculous decisions the old firm get , doesn't it ? . In the Rocky incident 9/10 the old firm would be given a free kick for it against us imo .

In a lot of games now in both England and Scotland you regularly see the defender making no attempt to play the ball but block the attacker from the ball and wait for contact to be made which is often similar to what Rocky's was , a freekick is generally awarded to the defender too . Thought Monty's assessment of it was spot on in Rocky should have been stronger but it was a foul !.

He could have put it out and maybe he should have though I think a lot of defenders would have done what he did . The throw in would probably have been launched our box anyhow and if we defended like we did on the corner they might have scored also .

As to Rocky costing us 2 points , all Rocky cost us was a corner , Poor defending cost us the goal . We could also blame the manager and staff for not having a man on the post too or another player who Rocky had to cover for by going out there in the first place , Monty also mentioned this too .

Though seeing as it was Monty's first game and he hadn't much time with the players and the players were also trying to adapt to a new system , tactics etc I think we could as fans give the team a little leeway and ease off in blaming certain individual players .

Since that killie game Rocky has played in 3 fixtures 2 wins and a draw and has performed well and not let us down which is probably the reason folk that don't like him keep dragging up a corner he gave away 3 weeks ! .

[Donegal Hibby]

A free kick was incorrectly given in another game, and you think that's some kind of evidence that all dives should get a freekick? That's some logic.

Didn't say it was evidence though if referee's are giving the old firm free kicks for that then they'd be giving them for Rocky's one every day of the week which was a foul btw !.

[tamig]

Didn't say it was evidence though if referee's are giving the old firm free kicks for that then they'd be giving them for Rocky's one every day of the week which was a foul btw !.

Rocky screwed up badly in that game. No excuses. He cost us two points. You can argue your point all you want but he was daft trying to buy a free kick in that position. He paid the price. As did we all.

[Swedish hibee]

I love Rocky. Go on son.

[Donegal Hibby]

Rocky screwed up badly in that game. No excuses. He cost us two points. You can argue your point all you want but he was daft trying to buy a free kick in that position. He paid the price. As did we all.

Rocky shouldn't have had to be in that position in the first place as Monty stated ! Freekicks are given regularly in games for similar contact or less . Defenders and goalkeepers normally get decisions in there favour whatever the contact. Again he cost us a corner , it was poor defending that cost the goal . He's played 3 games since that and been good . Time some of you moved on from the anti- Rocky stuff on something that happened 3 weeks ago ! .

[B.H.F.C]

Rocky shouldn't have had to be in that position in the first place as Monty stated ! Freekicks are given regularly in games for similar contact or less . Defenders and goalkeepers normally get decisions in there favour whatever the contact. Again he cost us a corner , it was poor defending that cost the goal . He's played 3 games since that and been good . Time some of you moved on from the anti- Rocky stuff on something that happened 3 weeks ago ! .

Whether he’s been good in the 3 games is a matter of opinion though.

You’ve been repeatedly making the same point about this Kilmarnock game, just from a different viewpoint, on multiple threads since so I’m no really sure you can tell everyone else to move on!

[Donegal Hibby]

Whether he’s been good in the 3 games is a matter of opinion though.

You’ve been repeatedly making the same point about this Kilmarnock game, just from a different viewpoint, on multiple threads since so I’m no really sure you can tell everyone else to move on!

If he hadn't been good in the last 3 games I'm sure we would have heard about it by now !!! 😂. Only opinion that really matters is managers and he seems to like Rocky and prefer having him in the team.

I suppose I have though I don't think I've been the one dragging up something that happened 3 weeks ago consistently , certainly hope it's not something that's going to be going on all season too !!! 😂.

[B.H.F.C]

If he hadn't been good in the last 3 games I'm sure we would have heard about it by now !!! 😂. Only opinion that really matters is managers and he seems to like Rocky and prefer having him in the team.

I suppose I have though I don't think I've been the one dragging up something that happened 3 weeks ago consistently , certainly hope it's not something that's going to be going on all season too !!! 😂.

Plenty folk will tell you that they don’t think he’s been good in his recent games, you won’t hear it though as you see it differently.

Not saying he’s been dreadful in all his appearances since Montgomery came in but neither has he been good in them all either.

[Donegal Hibby]

Plenty folk will tell you that they don’t think he’s been good in his recent games, you won’t hear it though as you see it differently.

Not saying he’s been dreadful in all his appearances since Montgomery came in but neither has he been good in them all either.

I don't think it's just me that see's it differently but other Hibs fans too and more importantly the manager aswell . The manager is picking him regularly which tells us he thinks he's doing well for the team and he trusts him . That's good enough for me 👍

[Libby Hibby]

I have a feeling Rocky will score the winner in the LC Final.

[CapitalGreen]

League stats - season so far (all per 90mins)

Tackles
Hanlon - 1.4
Fish - 1.3
Rocky - 0.3

Interceptions
Fish - 2.0
Hanlon - 1.4
Rocky - 0.5

Fouls
Hanlon - 0.2
Rocky - 0.8
Fish - 0.9

Shots blocked
Hanlon - 0.9
Fish - 0.9
Rocky - 0.0

Clearances
Fish - 5.3
Rocky - 5.3
Hanlon - 3.8

Aerials won
Hanlon - 5.7 (67%)
Fish - 4.3 (75%)
Rocky - 3.5 (55%)

Goals conceded
Hanlon - 1.2
Fish - 1.5
Rocky - 1.9

[Brightside]

It's not something I think I've ever heard a manager say.

Of course a left sided centre back is nice to have but they're not all that common, it would appear to my untrained eye that plenty manage to make do with 2 or 3 right footed players.

There is a very good article with Arteta talking about it. Spells out why they think it very important. As you say tho they are hard to find. I just think Rocky is very right footed and teams aim to exploit that on the left. Hearts first press was always against Rocky and they try and force him to the left.

[Sioux]

There is a very good article with Arteta talking about it. Spells out why they think it very important. As you say tho they are hard to find. I just think Rocky is very right footed and teams aim to exploit that on the left. Hearts first press was always against Rocky and they try and force him to the left.

12% of footballers are left footed. Finding a good one to play at our level is difficult. Even more difficult when looking at a specific position such as centre half.

The obvious solution is to play a left footed CH who is less capable. Another Hanlon maybe? :greengrin

[supermcginn]

There is a very good article with Arteta talking about it. Spells out why they think it very important. As you say tho they are hard to find. I just think Rocky is very right footed and teams aim to exploit that on the left. Hearts first press was always against Rocky and they try and force him to the left.

He can't find it that important, Arsenal have 5 guys who can play centre back, only one is left footed and he is 5th choice.

[Brightside]

He can't find it that important, Arsenal have 5 guys who can play centre back, only one is left footed and he is 5th choice.

Ok maybe he just made it up then. It’s pretty logical if you look at it with an open mind.

[Brightside]

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/mikel-arteta-left-footed-central-defenders-arsenal-man-utd-followed-2208551

[Donegal Hibby]

Hertz first press is just a long ball down the left which Rocky has had to go and cover , he goes to track Shankland who the balls going too but the bounce beats both and lands at Lowry who is coming in behind Rocky. We were far to exposed on that side with two hertz players to our one , Fish does try's to get to Lowry before shoots though. When the initial ball is played Obita is in their half and caught out of position. Same thing happened in the killie game with Stevenson as our left back which Monty mentioned at the time too.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12979397/hearts-2-2-hibs-scottish-premiership-highlights

[CapitalGreen]

Hertz first press is just a long ball down the left which Rocky has had to go and cover , he goes to track Shankland who the balls going too but the bounce beats both and lands at Lowry who is coming in behind Rocky. We were far to exposed on that side with two hertz players to our one , Fish does try's to get to Lowry before shoots though. When the initial ball is played Obita is in their half and caught out of position. Same thing happened in the killie game with Stevenson as our left back which Monty mentioned at the time too.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12979397/hearts-2-2-hibs-scottish-premiership-highlights

I think you have misunderstood what he meant by “Hearts first press”. He didn’t mean their first attack of the match, he was referring to pressing triggers which is a technical term for when the defending team use specific incidents to initiate pressing of the ball. Pressing is done when out of possession.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think you have misunderstood what he meant by “Hearts first press”. He didn’t mean their first attack of the match, he was referring to pressing triggers which is a technical term for when the defending team use specific incidents to initiate pressing of the ball. Pressing is done when out of possession.

Fair enough . Though a few times the Lowry chance at the start as came up and I still think Rocky has been left in a position he shouldn't be in against two hertz players. We are far to exposed on the left side and not for the first time this has happened either .

[WeeRussell]

Ok maybe he just made it up then. It’s pretty logical if you look at it with an open mind.

Nobody but nobody is arguing that it wouldn’t be helpful. In an ideal world, if two players had the same attributes then it would make sense to balance it out. That’s it and everyone understands why.

You made out the only way to replace Hanlon (when that time does come) is with a left-footed player. That’s not logical.

It’s absolutely not the big deal that hibs.net occasionally makes out, whether in defence or midfield, and all the alleged articles in the world won’t change that. In fairness to yourself BS, I suspect you’ve maybe doubled down because you accused Rocky of lacking basic ability and then switched to say it’s because he’s not left-footed.. I just find it a bizarre obsession in general that comes up now and then on here.

[superfurryhibby]

Nobody but nobody is arguing that it wouldn’t be helpful. In an ideal world, if two players had the same attributes then it would make sense to balance it out. That’s it and everyone understands why.

You made out the only way to replace Hanlon (when that time does come) is with a left-footed player. That’s not logical.

It’s absolutely not the big deal that hibs.net occasionally makes out, whether in defence or midfield, and all the alleged articles in the world won’t change that. In fairness to yourself BS, I suspect you’ve maybe doubled down because you accused Rocky of lacking basic ability and then switched to say it’s because he’s not left-footed.. I just find it a bizarre obsession in general that comes up now and then on here.

We have had this conversation many times before on here and it always goes the same way. I don't watch other football, so have no idea how many teams at our level, or at the top level, use a left footed CH routinely. As you say, in the ideal world, but Hibs certainly don't operate in that sphere.

[Brightside]

Nobody but nobody is arguing that it wouldn’t be helpful. In an ideal world, if two players had the same attributes then it would make sense to balance it out. That’s it and everyone understands why.

You made out the only way to replace Hanlon (when that time does come) is with a left-footed player. That’s not logical.

It’s absolutely not the big deal that hibs.net occasionally makes out, whether in defence or midfield, and all the alleged articles in the world won’t change that. In fairness to yourself BS, I suspect you’ve maybe doubled down because you accused Rocky of lacking basic ability and then switched to say it’s because he’s not left-footed.. I just find it a bizarre obsession in general that comes up now and then on here.

But he does lack basic ability as a LCB. He struggles to play passes with his left foot. That’s basic ability for an LCB. Ideally I want a left footer to replace Hanlon. If we can’t afford one and want a someone who is at least decent with his left foot.

[Allant1981]

But he does lack basic ability as a LCB. He struggles to play passes with his left foot. That’s basic ability for an LCB. Ideally I want a left footer to replace Hanlon. If we can’t afford one and want a someone who is at least decent with his left foot.

He really doesn't lack basic ability to play that position, he has done it well numerous times now, hence why he keeps getting picked to play that position

[BILLYHIBS]

But he does lack basic ability as a LCB. He struggles to play passes with his left foot. That’s basic ability for an LCB. Ideally I want a left footer to replace Hanlon. If we can’t afford one and want a someone who is at least decent with his left foot.

BS !

Rocky has the highest successful accurate pass rate in the whole team this season averaging 42.5 giving a percentage of 89%

Who cares if it is with his left foot or his right foot ?

Probably one of the reasons Monty keeps picking him

I also like the way he bossed Stevie May and put St Mirren’s Olusanya back in his box in the Cup tie after he burnt Hanlon off for pace in the first game

People need to cut Rocky some slack

There are a lot of important games coming up we will soon find out how good or how bad Rocky is

[superfurryhibby]

He really doesn't lack basic ability to play that position, he has done it well numerous times now, hence why he keeps getting picked to play that position

Yep, I think Rocky has been good this season overall. Good enough to compete with Hanlon, who's time is surely coming to an end at Hibs (does anyone know when his contract is up?). Both offer qualities the other lacks. Rocky is the future, I think he can become a stalwart in our defence. Hopefully, Harbottle is able to step up and offer more competition. Aged 23, he's needing to make a breakthrough and play regular football (has a career total of 52 games, most of which were non-league/league 2).

[CapitalGreen]

BS !

Rocky has the highest successful pass rate in the whole team this season averaging 42.5 giving a percentage of 89%

Who cares if it is with his left foot or his right foot ?

Probably one of the reasons Monty keeps picking him

I also like the way he bossed Stevie May and put St Mirren’s Olusanya back in his box in the Cup tie after he burnt Hanlon off for pace in the first game

People need to cut Rocky some slack

There are a lot of important games coming up we will soon find out how good or how bad Rocky is

His passing accuracy is high because the majority of his passes are short passes to Will Fish or David Marshall. He attempts significantly less passes over distance (2.7 per 90mins) than Hanlon (8.2) or Fish (5.1). His weakness using his left foot makes it more difficult for him to play the ball forward in front of our left sided wide players (as we saw on numerous occasions at the weekend).

[silverhibee]

You can t suddenly learn to use your left foot if you haven’t done it from a young age. Hanlon needs to be replaced with a left footed player

Nonsense.

Riordan done it.

[Donegal Hibby]

His passing accuracy is high because the majority of his passes are short passes to Will Fish or David Marshall. He attempts significantly less passes over distance (2.7 per 90mins) than Hanlon (8.2) or Fish (5.1). His weakness using his left foot makes it more difficult for him to play the ball forward in front of our left sided wide players (as we saw on numerous occasions at the weekend).

If all these stats are correct that your putting up then why is Monty picking him regularly ahead of Hanlon then ? .

[BILLYHIBS]

His passing accuracy is high because the majority of his passes are short passes to Will Fish or David Marshall. He attempts significantly less passes over distance (2.7 per 90mins) than Hanlon (8.2) or Fish (5.1). His weakness using his left foot makes it more difficult for him to play the ball forward in front of our left sided wide players (as we saw on numerous occasions at the weekend).

Seem to remember one of his passes being in the build up to our first goal on Saturday

Noticed you left that stat off your list to hit Rocky over the head with ?

He is still playing the ball out of defence is he not ?

Rocky hit six long passes on Saturday three of which were successful not bad considering all the yams in between on a tiny pitch 35 passes 28 accurate won 3:4 in the air 1:1 ground duels 1 tackle 6 clearances

You can see why he was disappointed to be subbed on Saturday

As long as the Manager keeps picking him I am happy

He has done nothing wrong this season so far …….

[CapitalGreen]

If all these stats are correct that your putting up then why is Monty picking him regularly ahead of Hanlon then ? .

I’ve no idea you’d need to ask him that.

The suggestion that a manager always makes the correct decisions in deciding which players play which positions is a strange take though. Maybe if he hadn’t failed to win 3 of his first 5 games it would be churlish to question his line ups but we have so rightfully there will be retrospection and questions asked whether we could have done things differently.

Do you think he made the correct decision starting Doidge instead of ALF against Hearts?
Do you think Johnson was correct to continually leave Miller out the team?
Do you think Maloney was correct to continually play Doig at Centre Back and Campbell in defensive midfield?

I really like Monty, his style of play plus the positive vibes coming out the club are great to hear. He’s not infallible however and I will question his decisions if I feel they are having a negative impact on our results, as I would any other manager.

[Since90+2]

Montgomery is picking Rocky over Hanlon as he's seen both close up over the last 6 weeks or so and decided Rocky is the better option. That's good enough for me.

[WeeRussell]

Montgomery is picking Rocky over Hanlon as he's seen both close up over the last 6 weeks or so and decided Rocky is the better option. That's good enough for me.

I’ll caveat this by firstly saying there will be some who genuinely just don’t rate Rocky right now, for whatever reasons, and believe he shouldn’t be starting.

However, I’m quite sure there are also plenty who got that involved in the anti-Rocky stuff from an early stage, combined with the ‘didn’t mean to sign him’ episode, that are that entrenched they now find it difficult to take to him as a player.

I miss the ones about how he was playing absolutely fine himself but he was making other players nervous by being in the team. Those were my favourite digs.

[MWHIBBIES]

He can't find it that important, Arsenal have 5 guys who can play centre back, only one is left footed and he is 5th choice.

Gabriel is left footed. Kiwior is back up to him, also left footed.

Arteta finds is essential, there is a reason Gabriel is considered absolutely indispensable.

[B.H.F.C]

If all these stats are correct that your putting up then why is Monty picking him regularly ahead of Hanlon then ? .

It’s pretty obvious Monty sees something he thinks he can work with and likes attributes that he has. One of the things that he specifically spoke about doing at CCM was replacing senior players who had been in the team for a while with younger players who he thought he could develop. He obviously thinks he can improve him which is fair enough but it’s also fair enough for people to question that and comment on performance.

No reason to doubt the stats provided and they would align with the fact that we concede more goals when Rocky is in the team.

[Smartie]

It’s pretty obvious Monty sees something he thinks he can work with and likes attributes that he has. One of the things that he specifically spoke about doing at CCM was replacing senior players who had been in the team for a while with younger players who he thought he could develop. He obviously thinks he can improve him which is fair enough but it’s also fair enough for people to question that and comment on performance.

No reason to doubt the stats provided and they would align with the fact that we concede more goals when Rocky is in the team.

I'd also say though that pretty much every manager in our recent history has looked like they've started off wanting to phase out Stevenson... only over time to be convinced by his qualities.

I can understand why Montgomery might want to go with Rocky for now. It wouldn't remotely surprise me if Hanlon earned his place back and kept it as the season wears on though.

They're both actually good players imo. Rocky has potential and clearly time isn't on Hanlon's side but Hanlon brings an awful lot to the table for a team that wants to play football from the back.

[B.H.F.C]

I'd also say though that pretty much every manager in our recent history has looked like they've started off wanting to phase out Stevenson... only over time to be convinced by his qualities.

I can understand why Montgomery might want to go with Rocky for now. It wouldn't remotely surprise me if Hanlon earned his place back and kept it as the season wears on though.

They're both actually good players imo. Rocky has potential and clearly time isn't on Hanlon's side but Hanlon brings an awful lot to the table for a team that wants to play football from the back.

Agree with this. Montgomery has only had 5 games and our biggest weakness has been defensively. He’ll find out more as the games go on and I still think Hanlon will get his place back. I actually think there is logic in him trying to change things in that position, but I’m not sure it improves us any at this moment in time.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Seem to remember one of his passes being in the build up to our first goal on Saturday

Noticed you left that stat off your list to hit Rocky over the head with ?

He is still playing the ball out of defence is he not ?

Rocky hit six long passes on Saturday three of which were successful not bad considering all the yams in between on a tiny pitch 35 passes 28 accurate won 3:4 in the air 1:1 ground duels 1 tackle 6 clearances

You can see why he was disappointed to be subbed on Saturday

As long as the Manager keeps picking him I am happy

He has done nothing wrong this season so far …….

His pass before the first goal? We played 4 or 5 passes after it, lost possession, won it back then played another couple passes before scoring. The idea that a basic 10 yard pass a good 15 seconds before we score a goal negates the many poor statistics pointed out is just a bit silly really.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’ve no idea you’d need to ask him that.

The suggestion that a manager always makes the correct decisions in deciding which players play which positions is a strange take though. Maybe if he hadn’t failed to win 3 of his first 5 games it would be churlish to question his line ups but we have so rightfully there will be retrospection and questions asked whether we could have done things differently.

Do you think he made the correct decision starting Doidge instead of ALF against Hearts?
Do you think Johnson was correct to continually leave Miller out the team?
Do you think Maloney was correct to continually play Doig at Centre Back and Campbell in defensive midfield?

I really like Monty, his style of play plus the positive vibes coming out the club are great to hear. He’s not infallible however and I will question his decisions if I feel they are having a negative impact on our results, as I would any other manager.

:agree:

[Donegal Hibby]

I’ve no idea you’d need to ask him that.

The suggestion that a manager always makes the correct decisions in deciding which players play which positions is a strange take though. Maybe if he hadn’t failed to win 3 of his first 5 games it would be churlish to question his line ups but we have so rightfully there will be retrospection and questions asked whether we could have done things differently.

Do you think he made the correct decision starting Doidge instead of ALF against Hearts?
Do you think Johnson was correct to continually leave Miller out the team?
Do you think Maloney was correct to continually play Doig at Centre Back and Campbell in defensive midfield?

I really like Monty, his style of play plus the positive vibes coming out the club are great to hear. He’s not infallible however and I will question his decisions if I feel they are having a negative impact on our results, as I would any other manager.

I'm not suggesting a manager always makes the right decision in deciding which players play in which position as there only human and probably make mistakes just like everyone else does though I do think the better managers generally get most decisions right.

I don't think the start we have made has been bad at all and there's clear signs we are moving in the right direction. Killie was disappointing after being 2-0 though was the managers first game and he had little time working with the players and probably players hadn't much time to adapt to things either . A draw wasn't exactly the end of the world considering killie had beaten both the old firm there and the pitch is s***.

Dundee game I think you have to give them credit for the way they set up and defended though on another day we would have scored 2 or 3 probably with the chances we created . One of them days just ! .

Hertz game for the first 10 or 15 minutes I thought we looked quite good though after that they were better in fairness though 2nd half we were good and showed great spirit and character to comeback and get a point on a tight ground against a team thats dirty enough!

I see no reason really to question the manager in our first 5 games though the one he is getting questioned on is playing Rocky who your stats have well behind Fish and Hanlon in most things and others have different reasons in he can't pass , left footed , cumbersome etc etc . If he was as bad as some make out he is I doubt very much he would be playing tbh .

As to your questions.
Yes I do think it was the correct decision to play Doidge instead of Alf .
Good player, don't know why he left him out , you'd need to ask him that ! .
Maloney was a clown and our version of Cathro .

I like Monty too and the style of play which I think is very attacking even though at times it leaves us very exposed at the back . Good vibes coming from the club are indeed encouraging. I know Monty isn't infallible though I see no reason to question his decisions as the haven't imo had a negative impact on our results so far . It's been a pretty good start for Monty at Hibs imo . ��

[Donegal Hibby]

It’s pretty obvious Monty sees something he thinks he can work with and likes attributes that he has. One of the things that he specifically spoke about doing at CCM was replacing senior players who had been in the team for a while with younger players who he thought he could develop. He obviously thinks he can improve him which is fair enough but it’s also fair enough for people to question that and comment on performance.

No reason to doubt the stats provided and they would align with the fact that we concede more goals when Rocky is in the team.

I like stats though do doubt them at times , maybe that's just me though 😂 . As to us conceding more goals with Rocky in the team we have lost 6 goals in 4 games he's played and if we could put a side the Killie game for now as I don't agree about the freekick debate that leaves 4 goals and one of which is a unfortunate OG , another scored two minutes after he's substituted which leaves 2 ! Which of them 2 has Rocky cost us btw ? .

[matty_f]

I like stats though do doubt them at times , maybe that's just me though 😂 . As to us conceding more goals with Rocky in the team we have lost 6 goals in 4 games he's played and if we could put a side the Killie game for now as I don't agree about the freekick debate that leaves 4 goals and one of which is a unfortunate OG , another scored two minutes after he's substituted which leaves 2 ! Which of them 2 has Rocky cost us btw ? .
The problem with stats is that often they lead people to confuse correlation with causation.

I posted earlier, after someone pointed out that we conceded two with Rocky on the pitch and none after he’d gone off:


We did, but the same can also be said about Doidge, Marshall, and Jeggo.

We also scored 2 while he was on the park and scored 0 once he was off

So what does that stat actually tell you? Boruc is better than Marshall? Le Fondre and Levitt are better defenders than Doidge and Jeggo? Or that nothing else that happened was a more significant factor than the presence or lack thereof of Rocky?

I think this discussion was had previously when folk were pointing out that Joe Newell apparently made us worse.

[BILLYHIBS]

His pass before the first goal? We played 4 or 5 passes after it, lost possession, won it back then played another couple passes before scoring. The idea that a basic 10 yard pass a good 15 seconds before we score a goal negates the many poor statistics pointed out is just a bit silly really.

Was still part of the same passage of play that Rocky instigated with his initial 15 yard pass into their half a Hearts defender makes a poor attempt at an interception and gives us the ball straight back in a dangerous area and we score

I did say ‘ one of his passes was in the build up ‘

Rocky is credited with one key pass on Sofascore that is good enough for me

Rocky is the future deal with it :greengrin

I am not claiming that that pass negates any other stats at all

The stats are there for all to see

Rocky has the highest percentage of accurate passes in the whole team at 89% season to date

The match stats show Rocky had a good game and coped well regardless of every time Rocky plays we lose loads of goals blah blah blah !!! or any other previous stats

We conceded to a wonder strike and a fluke own goal that Doidge could not repeat if he tried 1000 times

Try supporting our players for once

I take it you do not fancy him fair enough

The Manager does though and his is the only opinion that counts

He sees Hanlon and Rocky up close everyday

I admit I wanted Rocky gone after his first season but he has continued to improve season after season is on an upward trajectory he listens and is far from the finished article has his faults and they can be ironed out but he is not as bad as some on here would have us believe

https://i.ibb.co/zmHK6kt/IMG-2132.png (https://ibb.co/7SN7k90)
customs emoticons (https://emoticoncentral.com/category/customs)

[CapitalGreen]

The problem with stats is that often they lead people to confuse correlation with causation.

I posted earlier, after someone pointed out that we conceded two with Rocky on the pitch and none after he’d gone off:



So what does that stat actually tell you? Boruc is better than Marshall? Le Fondre and Levitt are better defenders than Doidge and Jeggo? Or that nothing else that happened was a more significant factor than the presence or lack thereof of Rocky?

I think this discussion was had previously when folk were pointing out that Joe Newell apparently made us worse.

“Correlation doesn’t prove causation” seems to be your go to on here now whenever presented with any stats that challenge your view but surely you are not suggesting that there isn’t causation from more successful defensive actions resulting in better defensive outcomes?

[B.H.F.C]

I like stats though do doubt them at times , maybe that's just me though 😂 . As to us conceding more goals with Rocky in the team we have lost 6 goals in 4 games he's played and if we could put a side the Killie game for now as I don't agree about the freekick debate that leaves 4 goals and one of which is a unfortunate OG , another scored two minutes after he's substituted which leaves 2 ! Which of them 2 has Rocky cost us btw ? .

So you like stats but if they don’t suit you you’ll just ignore them then? Guaranteed if Rocky was top in all those metrics you’d not be doubting them. I think having a defender that is pretty much the weakest of the three, in terms of those metrics, is going to weaken the defence collectively. I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that when we play a player who is weaker than the other two (and I say that based on what I watch as much as any stat) that we concede more. And that’s not just over the course of a game or two either. I’d have him down as as being involved in both goals at Killie, others culpable as well, not so much for the any others. More often than not it’s a collection of small things add up in the concession of a goal rather than an absolute howler from any individual but it is absolutely unarguable that we’re weaker defensively when he’s in the team IMO.

[B.H.F.C]

The problem with stats is that often they lead people to confuse correlation with causation.

I posted earlier, after someone pointed out that we conceded two with Rocky on the pitch and none after he’d gone off:


So what does that stat actually tell you? Boruc is better than Marshall? Le Fondre and Levitt are better defenders than Doidge and Jeggo? Or that nothing else that happened was a more significant factor than the presence or lack thereof of Rocky?

I think this discussion was had previously when folk were pointing out that Joe Newell apparently made us worse.

On the Joe Newell point, there undoubtedly was a period where our results were better with him out the team. I think we’d all agree that Newell is currently playing the best football of his Hibs career and we’d massively miss him. Wasn’t the case going back a year or beyond though.

If you replace a high performing and/or quality player with a lower performing and/or quality player then it’s going to have a detrimental impact on the team IMO. Any team, not just Hibs.

[Libby Hibby]

I’ve got a feeling that Rocky will score the winner in the league cup final.

[BoomtownHibees]

I’ve got a feeling that Ricky will score the winner in the league cup final.

Twice?

[Allant1981]

I’ve got a feeling that Ricky will score the winner in the league cup final.

you said the same about youan

[Paulie Walnuts]

“Correlation doesn’t prove causation” seems to be your go to on here now whenever presented with any stats that challenge your view but surely you are not suggesting that there isn’t causation from more successful defensive actions resulting in better defensive outcomes?

:agree:

Last season our defensive record was horrific with Rocky in the team. Over a not totally insignificant amount of league games (15) we had a record that would have had us concede the most goals any Scottish Premiership team had ever conceded if it continued over the course of the full season.

This season it’s much the same. Our defensive record with Rocky in the team is much worse than without him. If it was an isolated game we were talking about then I’d get the point, but we’re talking a good chunk of games where the stats, both individually and collectively are damning. Our defence is undoubtedly much poorer with him in it. Stats tell you that. Its also clear just from watching the game that it’s the case as well imo.

[BoomtownHibees]

you said the same about youan

That was the semi

[mcohibs]

I’ve got a feeling that Ricky will score the winner in the league cup final.

Will be living la vida loca if that happens

[WeeRussell]

So you like stats but if they don’t suit you you’ll just ignore them then? Guaranteed if Rocky was top in all those metrics you’d not be doubting them. I think having a defender that is pretty much the weakest of the three, in terms of those metrics, is going to weaken the defence collectively. I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that when we play a player who is weaker than the other two (and I say that based on what I watch as much as any stat) that we concede more. And that’s not just over the course of a game or two either. I’d have him down as as being involved in both goals at Killie, others culpable as well, not so much for the any others. More often than not it’s a collection of small things add up in the concession of a goal rather than an absolute howler from any individual but it is absolutely unarguable that we’re weaker defensively when he’s in the team IMO.

Whatever it is, it’s not unarguable.

See the last 4 pages of this thread 😁

[WeeRussell]

I’ve got a feeling that Ricky will score the winner in the league cup final.

They’ll be dancing in the streets of Walford!

[Allant1981]

That was the semi

Ahh so it was!

[matty_f]

“Correlation doesn’t prove causation” seems to be your go to on here now whenever presented with any stats that challenge your view but surely you are not suggesting that there isn’t causation from more successful defensive actions resulting in better defensive outcomes?

I’m saying it needs more depth to the analysis that a simple when they played v when they didn’t play.

You can add more defensive analysis to draw a conclusion which will be more accurate, but in this case, without even looking at the impact of Hearts’ subs, you can say that the “lost two with them on the pitch and none after they went off” to three other players.

That’s all my argument is, it’s not saying Rocky isn’t a factor or the main factor etc, it’s just that you can’t accurately say that’s the case just from that one stat.

[CapitalGreen]

I’m saying it needs more depth to the analysis that a simple when they played v when they didn’t play.

You can add more defensive analysis to draw a conclusion which will be more accurate, but in this case, without even looking at the impact of Hearts’ subs, you can say that the “lost two with them on the pitch and none after they went off” to three other players.

That’s all my argument is, it’s not saying Rocky isn’t a factor or the main factor etc, it’s just that you can’t accurately say that’s the case just from that one stat.

The thing is, bar one poster multiple pages ago nobody was even forwarding that as an argument in the debate. It seems like you have reintroduced that into the debate to try and dismiss the stats from OPTA which were the topic of discussion which you replied to.

[Libby Hibby]

you said the same about youan

No I never

[Libby Hibby]

Twice?

Everyone else seem to be repeating themselves regarding Rocky, I thought I’d give it a go…

[matty_f]

The thing is, bar one poster multiple pages ago nobody was even forwarding that as an argument in the debate. It seems like you have reintroduced that into the debate to try and dismiss the stats from OPTA which were the topic of discussion which you replied to.

Eh? That’s a bit of a leap.

I replied to one poster so said we conceded two with Rocky on the pitch and none without, and then to another who referenced stats, so it was relevant.

If there is a post with OPTA stats as well then I’ve missed it.

I’m interested to know what view of mine about Rocky is that you think the state are challenging?

[BoomtownHibees]

Eh? That’s a bit of a leap.

I replied to one poster so said we conceded gap with Rocky on the pitch and none without, and then to another who referenced stats, so it was relevant.

If there is a post with OPTA stats as well then I’ve missed it.

I was the poster who mentioned the 2 goals lost with him on the park however that was only in response to a post that stated “The defence had its shakiest period when he went off and Hanlon came on” which I disputed

[matty_f]

I was the poster who mentioned the 2 goals lost with him on the park however that was only in response to a post that stated “The defence had its shakiest period when he went off and Hanlon came on” which I disputed

:aok:

[Brightside]

What are his stats when he plays as RCB or middle of a three. His recovery pace is top class in a 3 and for me thats where we would get the best from him. But I can't see us playing that under Montgomery. As for "Why is he starting him and not Hanlon". I think thats all down to the recovery pace. There is no doubt that Hanlon has much more ability as an LCB than Rocky, but clearly Rocky is faster and perhaps thats why Monty is going with that risk v reward thing.

[WhileTheChief..]

Not too fussed what the stats say but if we want to improve we need better than Rocky and Hanlon in our defence.

That's not a criticism, it's simply stating the obvious.

I'd imagine it will be the first area of the squad that NM addresses in January.

[BILLYHIBS]

Everyone else seem to be repeating themselves regarding Rocky, I thought I’d give it a go…
:greengrin

[shetlandhibee]

:agree:

Last season our defensive record was horrific with Rocky in the team. Over a not totally insignificant amount of league games (15) we had a record that would have had us concede the most goals any Scottish Premiership team had ever conceded if it continued over the course of the full season.

This season it’s much the same. Our defensive record with Rocky in the team is much worse than without him. If it was an isolated game we were talking about then I’d get the point, but we’re talking a good chunk of games where the stats, both individually and collectively are damning. Our defence is undoubtedly much poorer with him in it. Stats tell you that. Its also clear just from watching the game that it’s the case as well imo.
Have to agree with this 👌👍✔️

[Donegal Hibby]

So you like stats but if they don’t suit you you’ll just ignore them then? Guaranteed if Rocky was top in all those metrics you’d not be doubting them. I think having a defender that is pretty much the weakest of the three, in terms of those metrics, is going to weaken the defence collectively. I don’t think it’s just a coincidence that when we play a player who is weaker than the other two (and I say that based on what I watch as much as any stat) that we concede more. And that’s not just over the course of a game or two either. I’d have him down as as being involved in both goals at Killie, others culpable as well, not so much for the any others. More often than not it’s a collection of small things add up in the concession of a goal rather than an absolute howler from any individual but it is absolutely unarguable that we’re weaker defensively when he’s in the team IMO.

Yeah I like stats though that's not what I said , I said sometimes I doubt if some of them are accurate. If Rocky was top in stats I'd indeed be doubting some of them . I did doubt the stat that Fish has a 100% tackle success rate as I would any of our defenders tbh .

The defender that you think is the weakest of the 3 and is going to weaken our defence collectively started against St Mirren and done well in keeping their attackers pretty quiet . We did lose a goal though Rocky certainly wasn't responsible for that as other individual mistakes lead to it . After Rocky was substituted we lost a goal two minutes later with our two best defenders on too !.

He also had a good game against hertz were Shankland who scored 25 goals last season was limited to very few opportunities as well.

The Killie game I thought we were good in until we went 2-0 and then we fell out of it with the midfield unable to keep any possession and gave the ball away cheaply which put pressure on the defense . The Killie first goal Rocky is covering for the fullback and made a mistake in not getting back into position quick enough though we had other players in the box that could have done more too .

The second goal was a foul and we should have had a freekick , goalkeepers and defenders normally get the benefit of doubt in these decisions as I've seen the Scotland game and many other games too .Rocky didn't cost us the goal only a corner it was poor defending that did cost us on it which Monty mentioned. Killie game there was a lot of mistakes made by different players and singling out one player is pretty harsh imo especially considering it was our new manager first game too.
1:08 in .
https://youtu.be/DJSWT6ijt0w?si=XsJK_30znLViDVJW

[Libby Hibby]

Yeah I like stats though that's not what I said , I said sometimes I doubt if some of them are accurate. If Rocky was top in stats I'd indeed be doubting some of them . I did doubt the stat that Fish has a 100% tackle success rate as I would any of our defenders tbh .

The defender that you think is the weakest of the 3 and is going to weaken our defence collectively started against St Mirren and done well in keeping their attackers pretty quiet . We did lose a goal though Rocky certainly wasn't responsible for that as other individual mistakes lead to it . After Rocky was substituted we lost a goal two minutes later with our two best defenders on too !.

He also had a good game against hertz were Shankland who scored 25 goals last season was limited to very few opportunities as well.

The Killie game I thought we were good in until we went 2-0 and then we fell out of it with the midfield unable to keep any possession and gave the ball away cheaply which put pressure on the defense . The Killie first goal Rocky is covering for the fullback and made a mistake in not getting back into position quick enough though we had other players in the box that could have done more too .

The second goal was a foul and we should have had a freekick , goalkeepers and defenders normally get the benefit of doubt in these decisions as I've seen the Scotland game and many other games too .Rocky didn't cost us the goal only a corner it was poor defending that did cost us on it which Monty mentioned. Killie game there was a lot of mistakes made by different players and singling out one player is pretty harsh imo especially considering it was our new manager first game too.

Geez peace FFS

[greenlex]

It was given though with no contact , there was contact made on Rocky and like what most defenders are doing now is going down and winning a freekick . If the same incident happens when we play the old firm 9 times out of 10 the referee awards a freekick. I've seen similar fouls to Rocky's given quite often when watching games to both defenders and keepers for the least wee bit of contact. It's all pretty irrelevant anyhow as it didn't cost us anything but a corner .

If that was a foul on the keeper last night then the boy should be charged with assault on Rocky.

[Donegal Hibby]

If that was a foul on the keeper last night then the boy should be charged with assault on Rocky.

In the games I've been watching it doesn't take much contact for a keeper to get a free kick , defenders are also normally getting them frequently for little contact . The one last night was soft though once the Scottish player put his arm out to the keeper it was more than likely always going to be given imo .

The one Robertson was hurt in should have been a free kick to Scotland no question though again for some reason keepers and defenders seem to get the decision most times .

[WeeRussell]

In the games I've been watching it doesn't take much contact for a keeper to get a free kick , defenders are also normally getting them frequently for little contact . The one last night was soft though once the Scottish player put his arm out to the keeper it was more than likely always going to be given imo .

The one Robertson was hurt in should have been a free kick to Scotland no question though again for some reason keepers and defenders seem to get the decision most times .

I don’t think anyone in the world, including the Spanish, thought that was always be given as a foul when mctominay breathed on the keeper. And apparently it wasn’t.

And if there’s no question Robertson’s injury should have been a foul to us then it would have been a penalty.

[Donegal Hibby]

I don’t think anyone in the world, including the Spanish, thought that was always be given as a foul when mctominay breathed on the keeper. And apparently it wasn’t.

And if there’s no question Robertson’s injury should have been a foul to us then it would have been a penalty.

Seen one in England recently were the keeper comes for the ball with two other players ( one his own ), keeper does badly on it and a freekick is awarded immediately to the keeper for a foul though on the reply it's his own player he's made contact with .

It was clearly offside so didn't really matter anyhow though thought the Scottish player that put his arm out at the keeper ( jack hendry I think ) give an opportunity to call it as a foul .

The Robertson's injury was without any doubt a foul by the keeper though when it comes down to a decision being made the referee they will normally go favour of the keeper , defenders are the same and will generally get the decision which is why I still maintain Rocky should have had a freekick. Doesn't make it right I know but normally that's what happens imo .

Didn't realize Rocky was abit like Sergio on speaking different languages btw .
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/congolese-ambassador-six-languages-kompany-inside-hibs-star-rocky-bushiris-fascinating-background-4366993

[WeeRussell]

Seen one in England recently were the keeper comes for the ball with two other players ( one his own ), keeper does badly on it and a freekick is awarded immediately to the keeper for a foul though on the reply it's his own player he's made contact with .

It was clearly offside so didn't really matter anyhow though thought the Scottish player that put his arm out at the keeper ( jack hendry I think ) give an opportunity to call it as a foul .

The Robertson's injury was without any doubt a foul by the keeper though when it comes down to a decision being made the referee they will normally go favour of the keeper , defenders are the same and will generally get the decision which is why I still maintain Rocky should have had a freekick. Doesn't make it right I know but normally that's what happens imo .

Didn't realize Rocky was abit like Sergio on speaking different languages btw .
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/congolese-ambassador-six-languages-kompany-inside-hibs-star-rocky-bushiris-fascinating-background-4366993

Sorry, yes Jack Hendry (Mctominay was busy firing it in the top corner). It’s never even close to a foul even with all the protection keepers get. I’m still not sure about the clearly offside bit either.

I haven’t as strong an opinion on the Robertson incident, see it all the time. Was just saying if it was a foul it’s a penalty as took place in the box.

I’m absolutely not getting involved in the Rocky foul/nae foul debate 😂

[Keyser Sauzee]

First time I’ve seen him tonight but Ross Graham at Dundee United looks a decent prospect for a LCB. Not the most challenging opposition but he looks like he has something about him.

[JimBHibees]

First time I’ve seen him tonight but Ross Graham at Dundee United looks a decent prospect for a LCB. Not the most challenging opposition but he looks like he has something about him.

Agree quite like him a little raw but definitely potential.