Scottish Football on Telly

[worcesterhibby]

Nicked this from the Pie & Bovril twitter

Premiership
Games live on SKY
Season 23/24
As at 02/10 (7 out of 48)

Celtic 4
Rangers 4
Ross County 2
Aberdeen 1
Kilmarnock 1
Livingston 1
St.Johnstone 1
Hearts 0
Hibs 0
Dundee 0
Motherwell 0
St.Mirren 0

There have been 0 games not featuring either Celtic or Rangers (0%)

[1875Sean]

Not surprising sadly

[B.H.F.C]

It’s good, especially getting big games like the one coming up this week at 3pm on a Saturday.

[Carheenlea]

Zero imagination.

When you think back to Soortscene when it was just one game with about 20 mins of highlights, it was usually games that were deemed the most interesting of the day. Mid table four-pointer, relegation scrap, top v second, derbies.

Wasn’t just Rangers and Celtic every week. Now it’s expected. The odd game here and there would be bearable, but it’s just a total snoozfest with Old Firm blanket coverage.

[Torto7]

Even the way they treat Rantic is telling. The Scottish game actually rates very well but it's treated like muck because it's not appealing to the large multi national advertisers in London. So English woman's football with a mediocre viewership and smallish average attendances are backed by tier 1 companies and the SPL is used as filler. The sooner we are rid of them the better. I'd rather have a streaming service tbh.

[Victor]

Unless the teams who are televised get some kind of bonus, Hibs are really getting money for nothing. As they are limited on how many times they can broadcast from Parkhead and Ibrox (at least they used to be), this means you only appear on TV when you play the gruesome twosome, which will be detrimental to the smaller clubs as they will lose gate revenue. The whole thing stinks. They should just pay the money to the Old Firm and let them play each other every week. The other clubs should opt out of the Sky deal, it’s only a pittance anyway.

[matty_f]

There’s so much potential in televising Scottish football that’s missed due to a lazy broadcaster going the bare minimum to guarantee that they can show as of
Rangers and Celtic as they can, as that’s where they get their audience.

Taking the coverage away from Sky and giving the clubs the broadcast rights, through something like SPFL TV and making all the clubs accessible to document the season (like the All Or Nothing series or Welcome To Wrexham) to tell the stories would be massive.

[B.H.F.C]

There’s so much potential in televising Scottish football that’s missed due to a lazy broadcaster going the bare minimum to guarantee that they can show as of
Rangers and Celtic as they can, as that’s where they get their audience.

Taking the coverage away from Sky and giving the clubs the broadcast rights, through something like SPFL TV and making all the clubs accessible to document the season (like the All Or Nothing series or Welcome To Wrexham) to tell the stories would be massive.

For all Sky get a bit of stick, there is nobody else even willing to pay the bare minimum that they do.

I just don’t think the appetite or opportunity exists in the way folk think. Setting up a streaming service or whatever when access to streams is so readily available (even if not legal) wouldn’t work IMO. I don’t think the clubs would want to do anything that could threaten their main source of revenue, gate money, either.

[matty_f]

For all Sky get a bit of stick, there is nobody else even willing to pay the bare minimum that they do.

I just don’t think the appetite or opportunity exists in the way folk think. Setting up a streaming service or whatever when access to streams is so readily available (even if not legal) wouldn’t work IMO. I don’t think the clubs would want to do anything that could threaten their main source of revenue, gate money, either.

I think it’s a bit of a myth about streaming affecting gates. People who go to football are going to go to football whether it’s on TV or not, bar a handful of exceptions.

With a firestick you can virtually watch any game live as it is, but there’s no way I’d watch a game on TV that I could watch in person, however I’d happily pay a subscription to watch the games I can’t make. Illegal streams are already a thing, they haven’t put Sky or BT etc out of business.

There absolutely is an appetite for it, with the right marketing. Wrexham have shown what you can do with some creative thought - as did Salford to a lesser extent. Neither of those teams would have peaked anyone’s interest but Wrexham are now a global brand, incredibly, their live crowds have increased and their merchandising is through the roof, with their own show on Disney Plus.

[ScottB]

Our TV deal is part Old Firm away broadcast service, part time filler for Sky.

[ScottB]

I think it’s a bit of a myth about streaming affecting gates. People who go to football are going to go to football whether it’s on TV or not, bar a handful of exceptions.

With a firestick you can virtually watch any game live as it is, but there’s no way I’d watch a game on TV that I could watch in person, however I’d happily pay a subscription to watch the games I can’t make. Illegal streams are already a thing, they haven’t put Sky or BT etc out of business.

There absolutely is an appetite for it, with the right marketing. Wrexham have shown what you can do with some creative thought - as did Salford to a lesser extent. Neither of those teams would have peaked anyone’s interest but Wrexham are now a global brand, incredibly, their live crowds have increased and their merchandising is through the roof, with their own show on Disney Plus.

To be fair, Wrexham are popular because of their owners, nothing else. Salford are the same to a lesser extent.

Look at the massive spike in viewership and merch sales over in the NFL just because Taylor Swift may or may not be dating a player.

If a Scottish club suddenly gets taken over by some sort of megastar then yeah, something similar could happen, but it’s not the sort of buzz the clubs could generate independently of that happening I would say.

[percy veer]

its absolutley shocking the way hibs and hearts are treated by sky, we should be promoting the derby as a showpeice, if i was hibs and hearts i would find a way of opting out .

[matty_f]

To be fair, Wrexham are popular because of their owners, nothing else. Salford are the same to a lesser extent.

Look at the massive spike in viewership and merch sales over in the NFL just because Taylor Swift may or may not be dating a player.

If a Scottish club suddenly gets taken over by some sort of megastar then yeah, something similar could happen, but it’s not the sort of buzz the clubs could generate independently of that happening I would say.

Whether it’s movie star owners or ex players, they grew their exposure and generated interest because there’s a story to tell that people are interested in.

In Wrexham’s case, if the guys had just bought the club and put a bit of money in, there would have been a bit of interest but not on the scale they’ve had. That’s come because they’ve told the story, they’ve made it about more than the football club - the fans, the city, the community all feature and so if you’re a neutral and you watch it, you end up wanting them to do well. The last episode i watched was about their striker’s autistic son. It’s not just “Deadpool bought a football club”.

I think those stories exists across Scottish football that, with the right investment in production, we have a very sellable product. It needs more imagination than the current budget production Sportscene or minimum effort Sky games, though.

[Daily Hibs]

SPFL is a joke league verging on totally pointless.
TV deal that only suits two teams and the structure of the league. The fact the two Edinburgh clubs havent been shown yet is a complete nonsense.

[Waxy]

I’ve been enjoying the friday night championship games on bbc Scotland the last few years.
Doesnt seem to be on alot anymore.

[Trinity Hibee]

I think it’s a bit of a myth about streaming affecting gates. People who go to football are going to go to football whether it’s on TV or not, bar a handful of exceptions.

With a firestick you can virtually watch any game live as it is, but there’s no way I’d watch a game on TV that I could watch in person, however I’d happily pay a subscription to watch the games I can’t make. Illegal streams are already a thing, they haven’t put Sky or BT etc out of business.

There absolutely is an appetite for it, with the right marketing. Wrexham have shown what you can do with some creative thought - as did Salford to a lesser extent. Neither of those teams would have peaked anyone’s interest but Wrexham are now a global brand, incredibly, their live crowds have increased and their merchandising is through the roof, with their own show on Disney Plus.

I agree. A league streaming service where you either only sign up for your teams games or you sign up to all would be a big hit with SPFl fans.

[hibstag]

Our TV deal is part Old Firm away broadcast service, part time filler for Sky.
The way The post split fixtures last season were broadcast was shameful, we were subjected to meaningless old firm matches, whilst relegation and European Place '6 pointers'were ignored, hidden behind meeting contractual obligations....

[B.H.F.C]

I think it’s a bit of a myth about streaming affecting gates. People who go to football are going to go to football whether it’s on TV or not, bar a handful of exceptions.

With a firestick you can virtually watch any game live as it is, but there’s no way I’d watch a game on TV that I could watch in person, however I’d happily pay a subscription to watch the games I can’t make. Illegal streams are already a thing, they haven’t put Sky or BT etc out of business.

There absolutely is an appetite for it, with the right marketing. Wrexham have shown what you can do with some creative thought - as did Salford to a lesser extent. Neither of those teams would have peaked anyone’s interest but Wrexham are now a global brand, incredibly, their live crowds have increased and their merchandising is through the roof, with their own show on Disney Plus.

Wrexham with their Hollywood owners and Salford with the class of 92 are a totally different ball game.

I don’t think you are getting to a position where you are getting hundreds of thousands of people subscribing to a SPFL only streaming service (which is what you’d need to do to replace the Sky money at 10 or 20 quid a month for arguments sake). I don’t believe for a minute it’s not been considered I just don’t think it’s viable.

[B.H.F.C]

SPFL is a joke league verging on totally pointless.
TV deal that only suits two teams and the structure of the league. The fact the two Edinburgh clubs havent been shown yet is a complete nonsense.

For years, folk have been moaning about wanting more games kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday. We’re getting that just now and folk now want to be on the telly.

[Gloucester Hibs]

What did Ron Gordon’s independent review into broadcast revenue conclude? Vaguely mind it saying the league was receiving what it was worth?

[James70]

I don't subscribe to Sky Sports for this very reason.

I have BT Sport for European matches and the Saturday lunchtime game.

[Jones28]

I'd be delighted to see some smaller network come in and really show a desire to showcase the game in Scotland. Multiple games per weekend.

What harm would there have been in showing, for example, Ross County v Aberdeen last weekend? Killie v Hibs a couple of weeks ago? Hearts v Hibs this weekend? A Championship or League 1 fixture now and again?

The OF will be more dominant as you'd expect, but a Setanta or ESPN style deal is far more appealing to me than the current crap we've got with Sky.

Is a non OF game even in their scheduling?

[marinello59]

For years, folk have been moaning about wanting more games kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday. We’re getting that just now and folk now want to be on the telly.

I’m delighted with the 3pm kick offs. The Derby is going to be much better for it on Saturday.

[HH81]

I’m delighted with the 3pm kick offs. The Derby is going to be much better for it on Saturday.

Only the ones going to the game.

I think ppv should be allowed at 3pm kick offs if it's sold out.

[Spooky]

I’ve been enjoying the friday night championship games on bbc Scotland the last few years.
Doesnt seem to be on alot anymore.

SL Div 1 - Try BBC Alba Saturday night around 6pm? Was Stirling v Cove last week

[B.H.F.C]

I'd be delighted to see some smaller network come in and really show a desire to showcase the game in Scotland. Multiple games per weekend.

What harm would there have been in showing, for example, Ross County v Aberdeen last weekend? Killie v Hibs a couple of weeks ago? Hearts v Hibs this weekend? A Championship or League 1 fixture now and again?

The OF will be more dominant as you'd expect, but a Setanta or ESPN style deal is far more appealing to me than the current crap we've got with Sky.

Is a non OF game even in their scheduling?

BT came in and their content and production was good, much better than Sky. But when the rights came up they didn’t want to pay to keep what they had or improve on it. The returns obviously just weren’t there for them.

Nobody is going to pay for, and show games that doesn’t return them enough and that’s the ultimate problem.

[matty_f]

Wrexham with their Hollywood owners and Salford with the class of 92 are a totally different ball game.

I don’t think you are getting to a position where you are getting hundreds of thousands of people subscribing to a SPFL only streaming service (which is what you’d need to do to replace the Sky money at 10 or 20 quid a month for arguments sake). I don’t believe for a minute it’s not been considered I just don’t think it’s viable.

I’d agree it’s not viable if you’re only showing games as they’re shown now.

Half arsed camera angles everywhere other than a few of the best stadiums, half-arsed commentary with irrelevant pundits is not a good product.

To say there couldn’t be a market for it is inaccurate though.

You need to consider that there’s a global market - there’s a limited audience in Scotland though I’d argue that, if done properly on a well-priced subscription plan it could do well.

Globally though - how many Australians are going to feature on Saturday? We’ve Japanese players in the league, there’s an untapped Taiwanese market which is growing massively (I’m reliably informed), clubs need to think about these signings and how they sell rights to the countries that players are signing from.

Forget England, their product is so far ahead of ours and so expensive as it is that nobody is realistically going to subscribe to Scottish football unless they’re a fan of a specific team, but wider than that there’s loads of potential.

It needs to be more than the games though, you need that subscription to take over the in-house media content from the teams and have it produce high quality regular content like the fly on the wall documentaries, or following the Australian or Japanese players for a season. The game coverage needs to improve and they need to show everything so when there’s a game where fans are locked out, the best option is to have the subscription where you can see a highly polished, well presented package for the game.

The problem we have is that everyone is stuck thinking Scottish football is as good as the way it’s presented now. Crappy highlights packages and live Rangers and Celtic games, presented by dinosaurs like Willie Miller, Pat Bonnar and Andy ****ing Walker.

There’s a reason fan podcasts etc are on the rise, it’s because people want the content and they want folk close to their club talking about it. You’re not telling me that folk won’t pay for it, I know they will because people pay to subscribe to my podcast. There’s 100% the potential to do much, much better than we have now if somebody actually had the balls to break the mould.

[B.H.F.C]

I’d agree it’s not viable if you’re only showing games as they’re shown now.

Half arsed camera angles everywhere other than a few of the best stadiums, half-arsed commentary with irrelevant pundits is not a good product.

To say there couldn’t be a market for it is inaccurate though.

You need to consider that there’s a global market - there’s a limited audience in Scotland though I’d argue that, if done properly on a well-priced subscription plan it could do well.

Globally though - how many Australians are going to feature on Saturday? We’ve Japanese players in the league, there’s an untapped Taiwanese market which is growing massively (I’m reliably informed), clubs need to think about these signings and how they sell rights to the countries that players are signing from.

Forget England, their product is so far ahead of ours and so expensive as it is that nobody is realistically going to subscribe to Scottish football unless they’re a fan of a specific team, but wider than that there’s loads of potential.

It needs to be more than the games though, you need that subscription to take over the in-house media content from the teams and have it produce high quality regular content like the fly on the wall documentaries, or following the Australian or Japanese players for a season. The game coverage needs to improve and they need to show everything so when there’s a game where fans are locked out, the best option is to have the subscription where you can see a highly polished, well presented package for the game.

The problem we have is that everyone is stuck thinking Scottish football is as good as the way it’s presented now. Crappy highlights packages and live Rangers and Celtic games, presented by dinosaurs like Willie Miller, Pat Bonnar and Andy ****ing Walker.

There’s a reason fan podcasts etc are on the rise, it’s because people want the content and they want folk close to their club talking about it. You’re not telling me that folk won’t pay for it, I know they will because people pay to subscribe to my podcast. There’s 100% the potential to do much, much better than we have now if somebody actually had the balls to break the mould.

I’ve never said people won’t subscribe to it, but I don’t think they’d subscribe to it in the numbers required to get near the current deal (as crap as that looks to us).

Think it’s currently £25m a year we get. If you were charging a tenner a month you need over 200k subscriptions or over a 100k subscriptions to get the same level of revenue although, in reality, you’d need a lot more by the time you accounted for the costs of setting up and running it.

Are people in other countries really interested in paying to watch Hibs v Ross County or Aberdeen v Kilmarnock because a couple of players from their own country are playing? Would you subscribe and watch games in the Norwegian or Swiss league if there were a handful of Scottish players playing?

I think there is an appetite locally for better content but I don’t think the financial opportunities exist on a great global scale.

[The Modfather]

I’m delighted with the 3pm kick offs. The Derby is going to be much better for it on Saturday.

It’s disappointing that only 3,000 Hibs fans can watch a derby live though, without resorting to illegal means. I’m all for 3pm kick offs, but not at the expense of thousands of fans missing out on watching a derby live through no fault of their own.

There must be a sensible happy medium, the clubs, SFA, SPL & tv companies aren’t known for either their creativity or their pragmatism though.

[lyonhibs]

I’ve never said people won’t subscribe to it, but I don’t think they’d subscribe to it in the numbers required to get near the current deal (as crap as that looks to us).

Think it’s currently £25m a year we get. If you were charging a tenner a month you need over 200k subscriptions or over a 100k subscriptions to get the same level of revenue although, in reality, you’d need a lot more by the time you accounted for the costs of setting up and running it.

Are people in other countries really interested in paying to watch Hibs v Ross County or Aberdeen v Kilmarnock because a couple of players from their own country are playing? Would you subscribe and watch games in the Norwegian or Swiss league if there were a handful of Scottish players playing?

I think there is an appetite locally for better content but I don’t think the financial opportunities exist on a great global scale.

A good point, not to mention the time zone difference between here and the countries mentioned is vast. Whoever signed the contract with all its "obligations" with Sky should be strung up from a lamp post, but at the same time it's a sad fact that viewer numbers are the deciding factor here, bringing with it ad revenue etc, that has led us to this ****ty situation

[Rumble de Thump]

Decades of the authorities and media focusing on promoting, and pandering to, just two teams has led to people outside of Scotland not giving a Brad Pitt about Scottish football. That has seriously impacted the Scottish game overall. Focus on promoting the whole of Scottish football and creating an exciting, competitive league and more people will be interested. And more money will come into the game, thereby improving the quality. Everyone knows it, but the people running the game have no desire to do that. They will still continue to pretend Scottish football = Celtic and Sevco.

[DH1875]

Its bad enough they don't show the derbies but if it is oldfirm TV, how come our game v celtic isn't on.

[WhileTheChief..]

There’s barely a market in Scotland for Scottish football.

Massive potential?? Nope, not seeing it at all.

Hardly anyone on here watches games not involving Hibs so the chances of anyone from abroad paying to watch St Johnstone v Dundee or similar are almost nil.

No amount of marketing is going to change that.

It’s like suggesting some of us would pay to watch games from the Slovakian league. A few might, but most wouldn’t.

[Stubbsy90+2]

How much do the BBC pay for English women’s coverage? Without turning this into a women v men debate, there is way more appetite for the Scottish men’s game than the English women’s game. A starting point would be BBC paying their fair share for Scottish football. They invest a hell of a lot into English men’s football and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear they do the same with the women’s football but next to nothing into us.

Sky are the same but as a private company you can’t really do anything about it. BBC though are publicly funded and should be putting the same amount proportionately into Scottish football, Welsh football etc as they put into English football with MOTD etc.

[Since90+2]

How much do the BBC pay for English women’s coverage? Without turning this into a women v men debate, there is way more appetite for the Scottish men’s game than the English women’s game. A starting point would be BBC paying their fair share for Scottish football. They invest a hell of a lot into English men’s football and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear they do the same with the women’s football but next to nothing into us.

Sky are the same but as a private company you can’t really do anything about it. BBC though are publicly funded and should be putting the same amount proportionately into Scottish football, Welsh football etc as they put into English football with MOTD etc.

On your first point, I'm not sure that's true anymore. The England women's team are absolutely huge now, their viewership on BBC will likely be much bigger than if you put Scottish football on the same platform.

The only game I can think in Scottish football that would trump them is Celtic v Sevco. Us v Hearts for example would probably pull in a fraction of what a big Lionesses game would.

[Stubbsy90+2]

On your first point, I'm not sure that's true anymore. The England women's team are absolutely huge now, their viewership on BBC will likely be much bigger than if you put Scottish football on the same platform.

The only game I can think in Scottish football that would trump them is Celtic v Sevco. Us v Hearts for example would probably pull in a fraction of what a big Lionesses game would.

I get it’s got bigger but there’s no way it’s bigger than Scottish football I wouldn’t think. The Old Firm will see to that and I’d be very surprised if the women’s national team had more of a following than the Scottish men’s team.

But I’m more talking about club football - what do the BBC put into women’s club football?

To be fair the debate doesn’t need to be considering gender. It can just be Scotland V England as the BBC put a completely disproportionate amount of money into sport in each country.

Englands population is pretty much 10x Scotland. If they pay £100m for MOTD for example, they should be paying £10m for sportscene. If they’re paying £50m for England internationals, they should be paying £5m for Scotlands. If they’re paying £10m for the Lioness’s, they should be paying £1m for the Scotland womens games.

Apparently back in 2017 BBC paid over 60x more for English football than Scottish football. If anything I’m going to hazard a guess that has got even bigger. That sort of thing is a joke and if it was split proportionately would be of a massive benefit to our game whilst hardly making any difference to the English game.

[ancient hibee]

I get it’s got bigger but there’s no way it’s bigger than Scottish football I wouldn’t think. The Old Firm will see to that and I’d be very surprised if the women’s national team had more of a following than the Scottish men’s team.

But I’m more talking about club football - what do the BBC put into women’s club football?

To be fair the debate doesn’t need to be considering gender. It can just be Scotland V England as the BBC put a completely disproportionate amount of money into sport in each country.

Englands population is pretty much 10x Scotland. If they pay £100m for MOTD for example, they should be paying £10m for sportscene. If they’re paying £50m for England internationals, they should be paying £5m for Scotlands. If they’re paying £10m for the Lioness’s, they should be paying £1m for the Scotland womens games.

Apparently back in 2017 BBC paid over 60x more for English football than Scottish football. If anything I’m going to hazard a guess that has got even bigger. That sort of thing is a joke and if it was split proportionately would be of a massive benefit to our game whilst hardly making any difference to the English game.
Do BBC show any England men internationals? The broadcasting rights for most international competitions are sold centrally by the organising body I think.

[Carheenlea]

It’s not like broadcasters are falling over themselves to buy the rights to Scottish Football. If we put a price on it and Sky said no thanks, who else pays that figure?

You likely end up going down a road where the broadcast deal ends up being sold for less than what Sky were prepared to pay.

[ScottB]

Scottish football goes to the highest bidder, there’s not a fair price or a proportion relative to England at all. Who else is bidding against the BBC to show highlights? Do STV even bother? That’s what sets the price.

As for Wrexham etc. yeah people watch the ongoing show that isn’t about Ryan Reynolds every week, but he is absolutely the reason they watched in the first place and the reason why there isn’t a comparable successful show about any other ‘small’ club that isn’t owned by a celebrity. It probably does better numbers than the Amazon shows about Man City or the All Blacks.

What’s the narrative and why should anyone that isn’t a fan care is the point. Wrexham have it, the MLS is going hard on being the home of Messi, presumably the Saudi’s have an audience for what they’ve cooked up. Could you market Scottish football better to a wider audience? Sure, but it’s probably always going to be small beans.

[Tambo]

What's happened to the 6pm games on alba? It has been live league 1 football the last few weeks and Falkirk Vs Hamilton this week.

No issue with league 1 teams getting the air time, I just wondered what happened.

[ancient hibee]

What's happened to the 6pm games on alba? It has been live league 1 football the last few weeks and Falkirk Vs Hamilton this week.

No issue with league 1 teams getting the air time, I just wondered what happened.

If you’re talking about Premier games at 6 on Alba-they weren’t live.

[Forza Fred]

There’s barely a market in Scotland for Scottish football.

Massive potential?? Nope, not seeing it at all.

Hardly anyone on here watches games not involving Hibs so the chances of anyone from abroad paying to watch St Johnstone v Dundee or similar are almost nil.

No amount of marketing is going to change that.

It’s like suggesting some of us would pay to watch games from the Slovakian league. A few might, but most wouldn’t.

That’s the way I see it.

I get up at 2am on a Sunday morning to do my duty and watch Hibs v whomever.

I wouldn’t be doing that for any other team.

While there are many ‘neutrals ‘ down here who follow the EPL to a degree, I can’t say the same for the Dutch, French, Belgian, Swiss, Scotland etc etc leagues tbh and just can’t think of anything that would change that.

[James Stephen]

Can people no just follow the score on teletext?

Page 302 for fitba.

[James Stephen]

On your first point, I'm not sure that's true anymore. The England women's team are absolutely huge now, their viewership on BBC will likely be much bigger than if you put Scottish football on the same platform.

The only game I can think in Scottish football that would trump them is Celtic v Sevco. Us v Hearts for example would probably pull in a fraction of what a big Lionesses game would.

I think he was meaning the woman's league, which gets an enormous amount of marketing and high profile coverage, but is multiple levels below, in both quality and spectacle.

[JimBHibees]

There’s barely a market in Scotland for Scottish football.

Massive potential?? Nope, not seeing it at all.

Hardly anyone on here watches games not involving Hibs so the chances of anyone from abroad paying to watch St Johnstone v Dundee or similar are almost nil.

No amount of marketing is going to change that.

It’s like suggesting some of us would pay to watch games from the Slovakian league. A few might, but most wouldn’t.

Your first point attendances at football in this country per head of population is one of the highest in Europe in spite of the appalling coverage. Just think what it could be.

[7Hero]

There will be no imagination or fairy tales to save our tv deals in the future. The next deal we get will be worse, women's football already more popular on Sky than Scottish football so theres another league we can't compete with.

Hearts have a hotel, we have new hospitality, it's the clubs that think outside the box that will start to pull away regularly from the smaller clubs, these types of intitatives will be the difference and see these teams compete regularly in Europe long as the co-efficient is not battered by failures to perform each year.

Fair play to hibs for improving commercially, the trick now is to make sure we don't waste the extra revenue we are pulling in.


As for the Scottish football on Telly id just forget about that being any better any time soon, especially with the muppets loooking after the game.

[JimBHibees]

I think he was meaning the woman's league, which gets an enormous amount of marketing and high profile coverage, but is multiple levels below, in both quality and spectacle.

Yep that is a but galling also but sky sports is pretty much sky sports England anyway.

[BoomtownHibees]

Your first point attendances at football in this country per head of population is one of the highest in Europe in spite of the appalling coverage. Just think what it could be.

Maybe it’s because of the poor coverage that more people want to actually go to the games

[JimBHibees]

Maybe it’s because of the poor coverage that more people want to actually go to the games

Possibly however an example last week we had a brilliant qiarter final win and noone could see highlights until a day and a half later.

[matty_f]

Possibly however an example last week we had a brilliant qiarter final win and noone could see highlights until a day and a half later.

And it didn’t help the attendance, we were able to close a stand and still not sell out.

[ScottB]

Your first point attendances at football in this country per head of population is one of the highest in Europe in spite of the appalling coverage. Just think what it could be.

True about the stat, but ultimately most of the clubs in our top league struggle to get 10,000 folk through the gate. Others mentioning English women’s football, didn’t they have a record attendance of 60,000 odd at a game last weekend, so it’s all relative to population size.

Football is popular within Scotland, but ultimately that’s a small number to sustain attendances and subscription to any TV service. Added to that, we’re, in terms of a broadcast market, in the same one as England. So realistically the SPL is probably, what, the 4th or 5th most popular / attended league in the UK?

[Gordy M]

Im pretty sure the TV viewing figures for Scottish Footall is pretty good. In fact, i just checked and more folk have tuned in for Scottish games than the English championship in 2023 so far.

[superfurryhibby]

True about the stat, but ultimately most of the clubs in our top league struggle to get 10,000 folk through the gate. Others mentioning English women’s football, didn’t they have a record attendance of 60,000 odd at a game last weekend, so it’s all relative to population size.

Football is popular within Scotland, but ultimately that’s a small number to sustain attendances and subscription to any TV service. Added to that, we’re, in terms of a broadcast market, in the same one as England. So realistically the SPL is probably, what, the 4th or 5th most popular : attended league in the UK?

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

It's a bit messy but our top league average is one of the best in European football (for obvious reasons), much bigger than the likes of Belgium , Russia, Austria, Portugal, Poland and any Scandinavian countries. It is just behind the English Championship in average attendance. The old firm make an enormous contribution to that, but even the likes of Hibs and Hearts have bigger average attendances than many of the top flight teams from bigger nations.

Our Tv deal is gash, we could probably sell it for more if we relinquished control and let SKy or whoever show any game, at any time they please.

[ScottB]

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm

It's a bit messy but our top league average is one of the best in European football (for obvious reasons), much bigger than the likes of Belgium , Russia, Austria, Portugal, Poland and any Scandinavian countries. It is just behind the English Championship in average attendance. The old firm make an enormous contribution to that, but even the likes of Hibs and Hearts have bigger average attendances than many of the top flight teams from bigger nations.

Our Tv deal is gash, we could probably sell it for more if we relinquished control and let SKy or whoever show any game, at any time they please.

Problem is you have to view TV deals at a UK level, and attendances in terms of raw numbers, not average per head. Old Firm fans do dominate our stats, hence why our TV deal is essentially a means for them all to watch away games. Sky could show more games now, they choose not to, presumably because they know it won’t get as many viewers as showing something else will get.

As an average our league might be just behind the Championship, but in terms of hard numbers? More will be going to watch League 1 games down there every weekend, maybe even League 2? What would get more viewers in raw numbers, a highlights show for Championship, League 1 etc or the SPL?

In those terms, we’ve probably got the best TV deal of any, effectively, third or fourth biggest league in a country going, as grim as that sounds.

[WhileTheChief..]

Your first point attendances at football in this country per head of population is one of the highest in Europe in spite of the appalling coverage. Just think what it could be.

That's down to old firm fans, nothing else. Take them out of the equation and it would be interesting to see where Scotland lies. Probably nearer the bottom than then top I'd imagine?

No one outside Scotland is paying to watch our games other than ex-pats, the vast majority of whom will be supporting one of the old firm.

[Torto7]

There’s barely a market in Scotland for Scottish football.

Massive potential?? Nope, not seeing it at all.

Hardly anyone on here watches games not involving Hibs so the chances of anyone from abroad paying to watch St Johnstone v Dundee or similar are almost nil.

No amount of marketing is going to change that.

It’s like suggesting some of us would pay to watch games from the Slovakian league. A few might, but most wouldn’t.

Utter b.s. The games rate really well including non old firm. I can't stand Scottish people parroting what the clueless English press says.

[Torto7]

There will be no imagination or fairy tales to save our tv deals in the future. The next deal we get will be worse, women's football already more popular on Sky than Scottish football so theres another league we can't compete with.

Hearts have a hotel, we have new hospitality, it's the clubs that think outside the box that will start to pull away regularly from the smaller clubs, these types of intitatives will be the difference and see these teams compete regularly in Europe long as the co-efficient is not battered by failures to perform each year.

Fair play to hibs for improving commercially, the trick now is to make sure we don't waste the extra revenue we are pulling in.


As for the Scottish football on Telly id just forget about that being any better any time soon, especially with the muppets loooking after the game.

on or with? I can't see any reason viewership wise you'd come to this conclusion if you check the BARB figures.

[Gordy M]

That's down to old firm fans, nothing else. Take them out of the equation and it would be interesting to see where Scotland lies. Probably nearer the bottom than then top I'd imagine?

No one outside Scotland is paying to watch our games other than ex-pats, the vast majority of whom will be supporting one of the old firm.

Without the Old Firm, we are 3rd in Europe.

[Torto7]

True about the stat, but ultimately most of the clubs in our top league struggle to get 10,000 folk through the gate. Others mentioning English women’s football, didn’t they have a record attendance of 60,000 odd at a game last weekend, so it’s all relative to population size.

Football is popular within Scotland, but ultimately that’s a small number to sustain attendances and subscription to any TV service. Added to that, we’re, in terms of a broadcast market, in the same one as England. So realistically the SPL is probably, what, the 4th or 5th most popular / attended league in the UK?

Heavily subsidized ticket prices. The bigots get that every other week. The average attendance in the WSL is gash.

[Torto7]

That's down to old firm fans, nothing else. Take them out of the equation and it would be interesting to see where Scotland lies. Probably nearer the bottom than then top I'd imagine?

No one outside Scotland is paying to watch our games other than ex-pats, the vast majority of whom will be supporting one of the old firm.

So take Man Utd and Arsenal away from the EPL and.

[Torto7]

Im pretty sure the TV viewing figures for Scottish Footall is pretty good. In fact, i just checked and more folk have tuned in for Scottish games than the English championship in 2023 so far.

:agree: Don't bring facts into things though the self loathers are parroting what talksport tells them. BARB figures for the SPL are excellent.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

:agree: Don't bring facts into things though the self loathers are parroting what talksport tells them. BARB figures for the SPL are excellent.

Self loathers? 😊

[Stubbsy90+2]

That's down to old firm fans, nothing else. Take them out of the equation and it would be interesting to see where Scotland lies. Probably nearer the bottom than then top I'd imagine?

No one outside Scotland is paying to watch our games other than ex-pats, the vast majority of whom will be supporting one of the old firm.

Why would you take the Old Firm out? They’re part of our league.

If you take the Old Firm out and take the biggest teams out of all the other countries we’d likely fair really well again.

[LancsHibs]

Simple supply and demand economics at play here, agree that Scottish Football could be marketed better but unfortunately the market in Scotland is a small one and there is next to no interest outside of Scotland . Unfortunately Sky probably get a bigger audience from within Scotland for their EPL matches than domestic games. Sad state of affairs but that’s where we are

[ScottB]

So take Man Utd and Arsenal away from the EPL and.

You’d still have Liverpool, Villa, Newcastle…

[ScottB]

Simple supply and demand economics at play here, agree that Scottish Football could be marketed better but unfortunately the market in Scotland is a small one and there is next to no interest outside of Scotland . Unfortunately Sky probably get a bigger audience from within Scotland for their EPL matches than domestic games. Sad state of affairs but that’s where we are

It’s this, essentially. Any TV contract goes for the minimum a company can pay. Sky get away with offering us buttons because nobody else wanted it more. They offer the English league billions because they’re terrified TNT, Amazon, Apple etc will take it away from them.

Would Sky care if they lost the Scottish deal? The money they bid suggests they don’t.

Getting other companies to at least make it a bidding war is probably the best next step we’ve got.

[B.H.F.C]

It’s this, essentially. Any TV contract goes for the minimum a company can pay. Sky get away with offering us buttons because nobody else wanted it more. They offer the English league billions because they’re terrified TNT, Amazon, Apple etc will take it away from them.

Would Sky care if they lost the Scottish deal? The money they bid suggests they don’t.

Getting other companies to at least make it a bidding war is probably the best next step we’ve got.

Sums it up really. When there was the chance for a bit of competition and a bidding war, BT weren’t prepared to put the money required up despite a lot of talk about how much they took Scottish football more seriously than Sky. Them money just clearly isn’t in it for the broadcasters.

[WhileTheChief..]

So take Man Utd and Arsenal away from the EPL and.

Drop the BS comments to me.

The chat is about trying to do things differently, as everyone is complaining that the Sky coverage is too focussed on the old firm currently.

Any new deal, of any kind, will still have the old firm included, so nothing much will change. Without the old firm, no broadcaster is paying anywhere near what we're getting now. That's a basic simple fact you just need to accept.

Why do think Sky aren't showing loads of Ross Co v Livvi games or why aren't all of ours or Hearts away games being shown?

It's not because it's Rangers or Celtic fans calling the shots at Sky. It's because the advertisers won't pay as much as they will when the games involve Rangers or Celtic.

We've had live TV for 30+ years here and there's not been a hint of any other broadcaster coning in and doing any better or paying any more. BT and Setanta both tried and failed.

With all the greedy capitalist media moguls out there, one of them would surely have snapped up the rights to the SPFL by now if there was money to be made?

Why hasn't there been any other firm come in with the mega bucks deal you think we should have?

[Tambo]

If you’re talking about Premier games at 6 on Alba-they weren’t live.

Yes I knew they wasn't live, was just nice when we was on for long distance fans to watch the full 90 without a crap stream.

We didn't have a good record though for games on Alba.

[Itsnoteasy]

its absolutley shocking the way hibs and hearts are treated by sky, we should be promoting the derby as a showpeice, if i was hibs and hearts i would find a way of opting out .

Just the same at Ryder Cup. Bob Mcintyre was hardly shown on final day. Is it because he's Scottish or that no one really knows him.

[PatHead]

Just the same at Ryder Cup. Bob Mcintyre was hardly shown on final day. Is it because he's Scottish or that no one really knows him.

If Sky showed more of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen maybe people would get to know them.

A bit of promotion of clubs other than the two cheeks would help.

[tonyrougier123]

Time for a change at the top! Ridiculous it’s a blackout for derby.
Game needs fresh ideas and summer football. That way it’s not in competition with English games.

[Since90+2]

Just the same at Ryder Cup. Bob Mcintyre was hardly shown on final day. Is it because he's Scottish or that no one really knows him.

Probably because he was the last tie and it was pretty much certain it would be over before he finished.

[WeeRussell]

Probably because he was the last tie and it was pretty much certain it would be over before he finished.

I thought the coverage of the last few holes was a bit poor in that regard actually. It could easily have been Bob that officially secured the half point required but you would barely know he was on the team towards the end and post-completion. 5 mins of aerial views during the run-in…

I thought, in general, that we could have seen more shots from more players with such a smaller field than the usual stroke play tournaments. I don’t know if that’s down to sky though.

Was still brilliant mind.

[WhileTheChief..]

If Sky showed more of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen maybe people would get to know them.

A bit of promotion of clubs other than the two cheeks would help.

It's a fair point, but it also means moving more of our kick-off times. Not sure how popular that is with the majority of fans who go to ER but it's generally not popular on here.

Folk constantly talk about wanting more 3pm Saturday games. You can't have that and more games on TV, it's one or the other.

[seanshow]

My mate works for our current deal broadcasters, and has been around a variety of their admin departments for 20 years.
Scottish football is increasingly down the pecking order of events to show unfortunately, hence the unfulfilled tv fixtures and all the other clubs left frustrated.
...they are even only sending out tv trucks/staff to the OF away games because they feel obliged to do so.


It's a tough one, After the current TV deal ends a selfish view would be for the individual spl clubs to take ownership of their own live coverage completely and sell it as they see fit, (technology is no longer exclusive )....or setanta spl tv mark ll lol.
On the downside internet subscription and ppv services can easily be bypassed robbing the clubs of vital income ( I will be partaking in such an activity on Saturday, I have no other choice to see the game).

As someone mentioned above, Was the future of spl TV rights in the Ron Gordon led inquiry? and was there any outcome.

The only solutions I can offer to attract interest and outsiders are , a fans crossbar challenge for a years supply of lager, centre circle kabaddi (for our minority viewers)
and top heavy lovelies mud wrestling at half time.

[DavieRoy]

The old deal that was shared between Sky and BT had 60 games on and I read that the TV could go 6 times to every stadium and 4 times to Ibrox and Celtic Park.

Now it is 4 times at each ground as clubs wanted less games on TV back when that deal was struck. 4 at each ground gives no flexibility especially for a league in which you don’t know what the top six will be. This was a deal struck before COVID-19.

Regardless of who got the deal, Sky or anyone else, restricting 4 games at each ground limits what you can do.

Sky will show what they want and what they are allowed to, I think the league and clubs hide behind Sky.

I would be asking why they brought down the overall games, why they brought down the stadium quota and why didn’t they but guarantees re coverage in their contract.

Easiest thing to do is slag Sky but people like Stewart Milne, Leeann Dempster and Ann Budge should be questioned for backing this in 2018 when the deal was signed.

[DavieRoy]

If Sky showed more of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen maybe people would get to know them.

A bit of promotion of clubs other than the two cheeks would help.

So why did all of those clubs want to limit the amount of games that can be shown at each ground when the current deal was signed in 2018. It went from 6 down to 4. The new deal next season goes up to 5 but let’s be honest, the games at Easter Road that broadcasters want are two derbies, two Celtic and two Rangers.

6 into 4 doesn’t go.

Easy have a go at Sky, let’s look at the clubs and SPFL for going down this path.

[basehibby]

its absolutley shocking the way hibs and hearts are treated by sky, we should be promoting the derby as a showpeice, if i was hibs and hearts i would find a way of opting out .

Agreed - its astonishing the level of contempt that is shown for Edinburgh Football when, for the fourth (4th) time on the trot the Derby - totally sold out as usual - is ignored by TV.

Never mind Cinch it's Sky we should be telling to GTF

[Torto7]

Simple supply and demand economics at play here, agree that Scottish Football could be marketed better but unfortunately the market in Scotland is a small one and there is next to no interest outside of Scotland . Unfortunately Sky probably get a bigger audience from within Scotland for their EPL matches than domestic games. Sad state of affairs but that’s where we are

It isn't simple at all and no EPL doesn't rate higher than the average spl game within Scotland, not even close to it. BARB figures for the SPL are higher than the English Championship games UK wide. There's too many navel gazers who just accept what the English tell them. If someone can give me a reason why lower rated English championship games get higher fees for their games than us and English women's football gets more marketing then I'm all ears because as far as I can see the justification for it is they are English and that's it.

[B.H.F.C]

It isn't simple at all and no EPL doesn't rate higher than the average spl game within Scotland, not even close to it. BARB figures for the SPL are higher than the English Championship games UK wide. There's too many navel gazers who just accept what the English tell them. If someone can give me a reason why lower rated English championship games get higher fees for their games than us and English women's football gets more marketing then I'm all ears because as far as I can see the justification for it is they are English and that's it.

What are the viewing figures (in Scotland) for SPFL games against EPL games out of interest?

There is only thing Sky are interested in is making money and they’ll know what makes them money and what doesn’t. They’re no paying more for Championship games down south purely on the basis of them being English, no way.

[JimBHibees]

Agreed - its astonishing the level of contempt that is shown for Edinburgh Football when, for the fourth (4th) time on the trot the Derby - totally sold out as usual - is ignored by TV.

Never mind Cinch it's Sky we should be telling to GTF

Couldn’t agree more but of course the Sheep scuppered that by siding with the old firm by preserving the 11 1 voting.

[Up-the-slope]

I’d agree it’s not viable if you’re only showing games as they’re shown now.

Half arsed camera angles everywhere other than a few of the best stadiums, half-arsed commentary with irrelevant pundits is not a good product.

To say there couldn’t be a market for it is inaccurate though.

You need to consider that there’s a global market - there’s a limited audience in Scotland though I’d argue that, if done properly on a well-priced subscription plan it could do well.

Globally though - how many Australians are going to feature on Saturday? We’ve Japanese players in the league, there’s an untapped Taiwanese market which is growing massively (I’m reliably informed), clubs need to think about these signings and how they sell rights to the countries that players are signing from.

Forget England, their product is so far ahead of ours and so expensive as it is that nobody is realistically going to subscribe to Scottish football unless they’re a fan of a specific team, but wider than that there’s loads of potential.

It needs to be more than the games though, you need that subscription to take over the in-house media content from the teams and have it produce high quality regular content like the fly on the wall documentaries, or following the Australian or Japanese players for a season. The game coverage needs to improve and they need to show everything so when there’s a game where fans are locked out, the best option is to have the subscription where you can see a highly polished, well presented package for the game.

The problem we have is that everyone is stuck thinking Scottish football is as good as the way it’s presented now. Crappy highlights packages and live Rangers and Celtic games, presented by dinosaurs like Willie Miller, Pat Bonnar and Andy ****ing Walker.

There’s a reason fan podcasts etc are on the rise, it’s because people want the content and they want folk close to their club talking about it. You’re not telling me that folk won’t pay for it, I know they will because people pay to subscribe to my podcast. There’s 100% the potential to do much, much better than we have now if somebody actually had the balls to break the mould.

:agree: Matty for president :greengrin

even the radio coverage is honking... last weekend there was OF on 3 different radio stations (same game) and no choice of game anywhere. Open all mics is a great concept.... BUT the actual broadcast reality is a horror with chat drifting to of course the OF (even if they are not playing) and some of the most dire pundits imaginable

[ScottB]

:agree: Matty for president :greengrin

even the radio coverage is honking... last weekend there was OF on 3 different radio stations (same game) and no choice of game anywhere. Open all mics is a great concept.... BUT the actual broadcast reality is a horror with chat drifting to of course the OF (even if they are not playing) and some of the most dire pundits imaginable

I disagree, open all mics is horrendous and never should have been done. Well, maybe as an option, but basically not covering anything outside the Old Firm beyond hearing some guy yell goal while the guys in the studio prattle on over the top of it basically stopped me listening to games.

That and invariably you can hear someone with a blocked nose in the background.

[Mark05]

I’ve never said people won’t subscribe to it, but I don’t think they’d subscribe to it in the numbers required to get near the current deal (as crap as that looks to us).

Think it’s currently £25m a year we get. If you were charging a tenner a month you need over 200k subscriptions or over a 100k subscriptions to get the same level of revenue although, in reality, you’d need a lot more by the time you accounted for the costs of setting up and running it.

Are people in other countries really interested in paying to watch Hibs v Ross County or Aberdeen v Kilmarnock because a couple of players from their own country are playing? Would you subscribe and watch games in the Norwegian or Swiss league if there were a handful of Scottish players playing?

I think there is an appetite locally for better content but I don’t think the financial opportunities exist on a great global scale.
Hi B,H,F,C I get what your saying, but I think there is a market.There is a lot of ex pat Scots around the world that would pay to watch Scottish football as long as they got the pricing right,me being one of them.Sky are really not that bothered about Scottish football, how can you keep leaving out the second biggest fixture on the calendar it doesn't make sense to me.All they are interested in is the old firm nobody else.For me sky have gone stale,it would be great for another broadcaster to come in with fresh ideas and shake things up

[A Hi-Bee]

**** the hertz,
**** the bbc

:thumbsup:

[Broxburn Greens]

Wrong thread

[DH1875]

Was the game live on BBC radio Scotland today?

[CropleyWasGod]

Was the game live on BBC radio Scotland today?

Yeah

[B.H.F.C]

Hi B,H,F,C I get what your saying, but I think there is a market.There is a lot of ex pat Scots around the world that would pay to watch Scottish football as long as they got the pricing right,me being one of them.Sky are really not that bothered about Scottish football, how can you keep leaving out the second biggest fixture on the calendar it doesn't make sense to me.All they are interested in is the old firm nobody else.For me sky have gone stale,it would be great for another broadcaster to come in with fresh ideas and shake things up

Reckon most of those ex pats are already subscribed to what they want to see. For example our lot through Hibs TV International.

[DavieRoy]

What are the viewing figures (in Scotland) for SPFL games against EPL games out of interest?

There is only thing Sky are interested in is making money and they’ll know what makes them money and what doesn’t. They’re no paying more for Championship games down south purely on the basis of them being English, no way.

But clubs wanted only 4 games on at each ground when it used to be six.

The clubs don’t help themselves, it would have been the same if BT picked up the contract as the tender was 4 games at each ground.

The clubs/SPFL make it difficult, so not all on Sky.