Is 'Ultras Culture Damaging Football'?

[Keith_M]

I thought this was an interesting article, on Ultras Culture in general, and Dutch Ultras in particular

https://www.3addedminutes.com/fans/ugly-scenes-ajax-should-serve-wakeup-call-ultra-culture-damaging-football-4349583

I understand people will have different views on this but it's worth reading the article all the way through and see if you agree/disagree with the points he's making

[Stanton Spence]

It’s not really something new in the game just a different name now
Seems like the Dutch have a bigger problem than most but I found that article difficult to read with adverts popping up everywhere

[truehibernian]

Block Seven are great for atmosphere, some of the antics away from home are not my taste have to say, but all in all they’re youngsters who are having a blast at the football. No need for the pyro but all in all they’ve made a real contribution to game day. Had a debate about them recently in my office and some likened then to the casual element of the 80’s. They’re nothing like that. Admittedly there’s some nonsense in toilets but hey, the casuals went from fighting each other to taking ecstasy and loving each other back in the 90’s. And the casuals brought nothing to an atmosphere other than growling, wearing crap clothes and running away a lot when the OB chased them 😂

I’m all for Block 7 to be honest 👍(just dinnae throw pyro)

[Hibbyradge]

Block Seven are great for atmosphere, some of the antics away from home are not my taste have to say, but all in all they’re youngsters who are having a blast at the football. No need for the pyro but all in all they’ve made a real contribution to game day. Had a debate about them recently in my office and some likened then to the casual element of the 80’s. They’re nothing like that. Admittedly there’s some nonsense in toilets but hey, the casuals went from fighting each other to taking ecstasy and loving each other back in the 90’s. And the casuals brought nothing to an atmosphere other than growling, wearing crap clothes and running away a lot when the OB chased them 😂

I’m all for Block 7 to be honest 👍(just dinnae throw pyro)

I don't think they're particularly good for atmosphere, tbh. The drum is noisy but that's about it.

Atmosphere is created by everyone getting behind the team at the same time in response to what's happening on the pitch.

[Pretty Boy]

One of my earliest memories of watching football is Hibs fans lobbing coins at the referee when we played Anderlecht.

None of this feels really new. It's just more visible with social media. Same as the casuals didn't invent fighting at the football; young lads were knocking **** out of each other long before the 80s, some people just made it more visible and organised.

I don't really get the whole ultras scene and there are things about their behaviour that annoy me but then I think that has always been the case. Every generation has it's thing, be that how they support their team, the clothes they wear, music they listen to, drugs they take or whatever else. There's always going to be a clash between those who get it and those who don't. I'm in the latter camp with a whole load of things now, much like my dad was with me and his dad with him. It happens. I'm not convinced the ultras scene is ruining football any more than I am convinced it's the best thing ever to happen for atmosphere. It's the in thing for now, in a decade it will be something else.

[WeeRussell]

I don't think they're particularly good for atmosphere, tbh. The drum is noisy but that's about it.

Atmosphere is created by everyone getting behind the team at the same time in response to what's happening on the pitch.

Without having a go at block 7 (and I don’t think you are either) I completely agree.. big nose.

[Carheenlea]

For the loudest/largest participation chants last night, the source wasn’t Block 7.

The group are youngsters enjoying themselves with the camaraderie of watching Hibs in a similar vein to the other “ultra” groups in Scotland. I think they do contribute more to general atmosphere on away days but what they contribute to home atmosphere is greatly over exaggerated.

They’re not for me, but as a 50 something nor should it be.

[lyonhibs]

I think the forced import of ultras culture as if the SPL is Serie A is a bit laughable, but mostly harmless apart from some of B7's reported behaviour towards other Hibs fans.

Give me a winning (relatively speaking)) team on the pitch that will organically lead to a cracking atmosphere from the stands any day over balaclavas, cocaine in the lavvies and hoodies any day.

[marinello59]

For the loudest/largest participation chants last night, the source wasn’t Block 7.

The group are youngsters enjoying themselves with the camaraderie of watching Hibs in a similar vein to the other “ultra” groups in Scotland. I think they do contribute more to general atmosphere on away days but what they contribute to home atmosphere is greatly over exaggerated.

They’re not for me, but as a 50 something nor should it be.

I don’t they add anything to away days, the atmosphere at those is usually OK. Killie away they added nothing in the first half . When they decided to stop huffing at the more well known songs and join in during the second half it was better.

[Paul1642]

I don't think they're particularly good for atmosphere, tbh. The drum is noisy but that's about it.

Atmosphere is created by everyone getting behind the team at the same time in response to what's happening on the pitch.

I’m not their biggest fan but I think they do add a fair bit to the atmosphere. When Hibs are on the front foot and playing well the rest of the ground contributes 95% of the atmosphere but when the game is dull we have in the past had a tendency to go a bit silent.

Their content drumming and occasional chant really adds a bit at times like that.

As for ultras, we have nothing like the Europeans and long may it remain that way. It’s an entertainment sport following a club that don’t know you exist. Letting it become your personally and going fighting / causing bother in the clubs name when 99% of fans don’t want it is outright pathetic.

[CapitalGreen]

I don’t they add anything to away days, the atmosphere at those is usually OK. Killie away they added nothing in the first half . When they decided to stop huffing at the more well known songs and join in during the second half it was better.

They add to the volume of our away support. Any young lads and lassies who spend what is likely to be a significant portion of their income to travel around the country supporting the team should be commended for that imo.

[marinello59]

They add to the volume of our away support. Any young lads and lassies who spend what is likely to be a significant portion of their income to travel around the country supporting the team should be commended for that imo.

Every away fan adds to the volume. They should all be commended. First half at Killie the most joined in songs came from the rest of the support. The drum added volume but can’t say it got the away support more up for than they would normally have been.
I may just be an out of touch old guy though. :greengrin

[Skol]

I would like to go back to the good old days of the well known songs, started spontaneously in the old terracing. Back then the youth would add to the atmosphere by lobbing on a few bog rolls chored from the brick ****house.

[Torto7]

The kids and 20s brigade like it and that's what matters. I'm out of touch with the yoof being 40.

[CapitalGreen]

Every away fan adds to the volume. They should all be commended. First half at Killie the most joined in songs came from the rest of the support. The drum added volume but can’t say it got the away support more up for than they would normally have been.
I may just be an out of touch old guy though. :greengrin

They definitely should which is why I dislike this us and them discourse that seems to be gathering pace on here.

Anyway, I see they are fundraising at Saturday’s game for the Community Foundation, so if anyone has any spare change with them before the game drop it in a bucket 👍

[Keith_M]

I just wanted to clarify that, as somebody that was there on the day of the infamous petrol bomb on Princes St (among other occasions/incidents), I'm definitely not taking the moral high ground with this.

It was more a point of discussion on the views expressed in the article.

[Lancs Harp]

Hearts ultras are hilarious, like a little black block directly behind the goal all clapping like rythmetic seals.

Not my thing but then my era would have been the casual era and we wouldnt have been everyones cup of tea back then. Youth doing what youth do I guess looking to make their own niche on society.

Looking to Europe and the Ultra scene over there it often seems to me that they dont even break song when they score (or concede) i wonder if they are actually watching the game? Which for many wouldnt be possible anyway stood behind a 10 foot square flag!

Fair play to block 7 trying to get a bit of atmosphere going but they should remember its about Hibs and not them. As for atmosphere old school support at Villa this season is what its all about, not singing songs no one knows or trying to court controversy.

[Keith_M]

Hearts ultras are hilarious, like a little black block directly behind the goal all clapping like rythmetic seals.

Not my thing but then my era would have been the casual era and we wouldnt have been everyones cup of tea back then. Youth doing what youth do I guess looking to make their own niche on society.

Looking to Europe and the Ultra scene over there it often seems to me that they dont even break song when they score (or concede) i wonder if they are actually watching the game? Which for many wouldnt be possible anyway stood behind a 10 foot square flag!

Fair play to block 7 trying to get a bit of atmosphere going but they should remember its about Hibs and not them. As for atmosphere old school support at Villa this season is what its all about, not singing songs no one knows or trying to court controversy.


Having attended a lot of games in Germany and Austria, I've experienced a lot of Ultras groups and found exactly that with some of them, where what was happening on the pitch appeared to be irrelevant.

Mostly that was with the larger clubs, though. My first experience of 'Ultras' in Germany was at a game between Dynamo Dresden and Alemania Aachen, and both groups were really into backing the team and trying to drive them on.

My worst ever experience was at Dortmund, where the level of violence took me by surprise. The Borrussia 'Ultras' seemed to have little interest in the game and then, after the match, they attacked the opposition fans, who were mostly just ordinary supporters (including women and kids).

I realise they're not all like that but it was a shock.

[DH1875]

Their not really ultras though are they? Well not in the terms of ultras on the continent anyways.
As a group they've got lucky with timing in that their more accepted and more accommodated with the club. The move to FFL lower for example should have been done years ago, before Block 7 were even a thing.

[Logie Green]

I would like to go back to the good old days of the well known songs, started spontaneously in the old terracing. Back then the youth would add to the atmosphere by lobbing on a few bog rolls chored from the brick ****house.

The ‘look at me’ stadium announcers who play ****ty ear-splitting ‘music’ right up to kick off and immediately after a goal is scored reduce the chance of the crowd being able to create their own atmosphere.

[DH1875]

Having attended a lot of games in Germany and Austria, I've experienced a lot of Ultras groups and found exactly that with some of them, where what was happening on the pitch appeared to be irrelevant.

Mostly that was with the larger clubs, though. My first experience of 'Ultras' in Germany was at a game between Dynamo Dresden and Alemania Aachen, and both groups were really into backing the team and trying to drive them on.

My worst ever experience was at Dortmund, where the level of violence took me by surprise. The Borrussia 'Ultras' seemed to have little interest in the game and then, after the match, they attacked the opposition fans, who were mostly just ordinary supporters (including women and kids).

I realise they're not all like that but it was a shock.

The notion that ultras only fight other ultras is a load of nonsense and is up there with casuals only fighting other casuals which was a load of bollocks as well.

[Waxy]

I thought the singing section was pretty good in the upper famous five a few year ago.As an onlooker i’m too old to get involved in that now.
Mid eighties was my time.

[Jones28]

I like the idea of people gathering together who want a sing-song to build an atmosphere, but the drum/megaphone/all black t-shirts/balaclava stuff isn't my thing.

The atmosphere is never better than when the classic songs are being belted out by the whole ground.

[Dmas]

The ‘look at me’ stadium announcers who play ****ty ear-splitting ‘music’ right up to kick off and immediately after a goal is scored reduce the chance of the crowd being able to create their own atmosphere.

Amazes me that people who are looking to enhance the match day experience can’t see how music before and immediately after kills fan involvement, goal tunes also get it off man

[jacomo]

Block Seven are great for atmosphere, some of the antics away from home are not my taste have to say, but all in all they’re youngsters who are having a blast at the football. No need for the pyro but all in all they’ve made a real contribution to game day. Had a debate about them recently in my office and some likened then to the casual element of the 80’s. They’re nothing like that. Admittedly there’s some nonsense in toilets but hey, the casuals went from fighting each other to taking ecstasy and loving each other back in the 90’s. And the casuals brought nothing to an atmosphere other than growling, wearing crap clothes and running away a lot when the OB chased them 😂

I’m all for Block 7 to be honest 👍(just dinnae throw pyro)


:agree:

The police didn’t stop the casuals. Raves did.

[StevesFamau5]

Quite a few interesting posts here.

I've been to Germany, Spain, Italy and Hungary for football games, in all honesty the experiences with the ultras in different countries was, well very interesting.

Spain, it was very crowd oriented. The ultra section Fondo Sur 1904 from Malaga CF are very vocal and there was about 1200 of them from behind the goals and the noise was great. They encouraged the general support and it was more like a party. Also most of the songs were rhythmic and seemed to get a lot more engagement. Granted the sun and warmth probably helped.

Germany, Ostkurve, Hertha BSC. At least 20% of the stadium capacity and it was loud, I mean really loud. But they seemed more vocal themselves while most fans watched the game. They were regimental and in time with each other. But the atmosphere was on edge I felt. Having said that after 2 or 3 beers it felt more electric.

Italy, Ultras Lazio, the ground was about 40% full, it was a Tuesday in December. But they were noisy, the flare and pyro were impressive but the overall feel was akin to a battle. They were intimidating but seemed to be welcoming of outsiders. The pre match march and into the ground (past 3 security checks) was intense and goose bumps were obvious for me. I have always had a soft spot for Lazio since the early 90s (Gazette Football Italia, Channel 4 anyone?) but overall the experience was mild compared to my last trip.

Green Monsters, Ferencvaros, Budapest. I cannot explain in words how toxic and angry this was. They are like nothing else. Balaclavas, fireworks, smoke bombs and flares from the get go. Every opposition touch was received with boos and whistles. Unless it was a non white player, then it was utterly disgusting. Monkey chants etc. It was really difficult to keep calm. Really didn't enjoy it.

In all from experience the Ultra culture can be a good and bad thing. If done right it can be special but if it's wrong.. well it's really wrong.

In Scotland we're trying to create something akin to the continental fans which due to pricing, police presence and treatment of general fans doesn't seem to work as well. The dafties watch the tiktoks etc and get ideas only they can't do them here anywhere near as well because, well it's not received well by the general football supporter.


In summery. I like Ultra culture, I just think it doesn't work well here.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Its like anything I suppose ... some folk just can't help taking a good idea and turning it to schyte. Our 'ultras' haven't got to that stage yet and I don't think bye and large any of Scotland's ultras have. A bit edgy and different is fine, but no matter what era of fitba you are talking about an A hole is just an A hole .... just don't act like one and you'll be fine :aok:

[JimboHibs]

I don’t they add anything to away days, the atmosphere at those is usually OK. Killie away they added nothing in the first half . When they decided to stop huffing at the more well known songs and join in during the second half it was better.

I was at Killie and didn't see or hear any huffing from them and felt they made most of the noise first half then i felt rest of the support decided to sing in my opinion.

Fwiw I don't mind them then again I take no exception if supporters want to sing or not sing and if it's a new song or an older song,some on here take exception at them singing they're new songs.

Good luck to them.

[Wembley67]

Quite a few interesting posts here.

I've been to Germany, Spain, Italy and Hungary for football games, in all honesty the experiences with the ultras in different countries was, well very interesting.

Spain, it was very crowd oriented. The ultra section Fondo Sur 1904 from Malaga CF are very vocal and there was about 1200 of them from behind the goals and the noise was great. They encouraged the general support and it was more like a party. Also most of the songs were rhythmic and seemed to get a lot more engagement. Granted the sun and warmth probably helped.

Germany, Ostkurve, Hertha BSC. At least 20% of the stadium capacity and it was loud, I mean really loud. But they seemed more vocal themselves while most fans watched the game. They were regimental and in time with each other. But the atmosphere was on edge I felt. Having said that after 2 or 3 beers it felt more electric.

Italy, Ultras Lazio, the ground was about 40% full, it was a Tuesday in December. But they were noisy, the flare and pyro were impressive but the overall feel was akin to a battle. They were intimidating but seemed to be welcoming of outsiders. The pre match march and into the ground (past 3 security checks) was intense and goose bumps were obvious for me. I have always had a soft spot for Lazio since the early 90s (Gazette Football Italia, Channel 4 anyone?) but overall the experience was mild compared to my last trip.

Green Monsters, Ferencvaros, Budapest. I cannot explain in words how toxic and angry this was. They are like nothing else. Balaclavas, fireworks, smoke bombs and flares from the get go. Every opposition touch was received with boos and whistles. Unless it was a non white player, then it was utterly disgusting. Monkey chants etc. It was really difficult to keep calm. Really didn't enjoy it.

In all from experience the Ultra culture can be a good and bad thing. If done right it can be special but if it's wrong.. well it's really wrong.

In Scotland we're trying to create something akin to the continental fans which due to pricing, police presence and treatment of general fans doesn't seem to work as well. The dafties watch the tiktoks etc and get ideas only they can't do them here anywhere near as well because, well it's not received well by the general football supporter.


In summery. I like Ultra culture, I just think it doesn't work well here.

100% agree. I spend a lot of my time in Ujpest (Hungary) and this is without doubt the most hatred filled atmosphere I've ever encountered. You don't even have to be at the game when Ferencvaros come to town, you can taste the hatred miles from the ground. And what really amazes me is the bars are still open 😁

[Kato]

Its like anything I suppose ... some folk just can't help taking a good idea and turning it to schyte. Our 'ultras' haven't got to that stage yet and I don't think bye and large any of Scotland's ultras have. A bit edgy and different is fine, but no matter what era of fitba you are talking about an A hole is just an A hole .... just don't act like one and you'll be fine :aok: At the very start of our club there were "cultures" supporting the club, all the way from the navvies with pick axe handles protecting the pitch on the meadows to the actual high heid yins in the Catholic Church. The vital thing is everyone in the stadium is on the same page and as much as that is possible.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Phil MaGlass]

Block Seven are great for atmosphere, some of the antics away from home are not my taste have to say, but all in all they’re youngsters who are having a blast at the football. No need for the pyro but all in all they’ve made a real contribution to game day. Had a debate about them recently in my office and some likened then to the casual element of the 80’s. They’re nothing like that. Admittedly there’s some nonsense in toilets but hey, the casuals went from fighting each other to taking ecstasy and loving each other back in the 90’s. And the casuals brought nothing to an atmosphere other than growling, wearing crap clothes and running away a lot when the OB chased them 😂

I’m all for Block 7 to be honest 👍(just dinnae throw pyro)

Ma clothes were brilliant.

[truehibernian]

Ma clothes were brilliant.

It was when folk kept the tag on their Kickers I threw the towel in 😂👍 think I’ve still got an old pair of Reebok Royales and a Sergio Tacchini polo from the 80’s in the loft 😂

Hibs were usually on point in the clothing wars 👍

[Keith_M]

Ma clothes were brilliant.


Yeah, mine too.

I think he's just jealous cos I had Adidas Sambas and Hugo Boss jeans, and he probably wore dungarees.

[truehibernian]

Yeah, mine too.

I think he's just jealous cos I had green and blue Adidas trainers and ma Hugo Boss jeans.

Valentino stone wash for me 😛

[Lancs Harp]

It was when folk kept the tag on their Kickers I threw the towel in 😂👍 think I’ve still got an old pair of Reebok Royales and a Sergio Tacchini polo from the 80’s in the loft 😂

Hibs were usually on point in the clothing wars 👍

In the loft? Im still proudly wearing mine with a few more update labels. :wink:

[HibsAnnouncer]

Amazes me that people who are looking to enhance the match day experience can’t see how music before and immediately after kills fan involvement, goal tunes also get it off man

Cheers for the feedback on both these posts guys.

I’ll pass the info back to the guys that play the music and production team which I am involved in. To be fair goal music is something that’s either love it or hate it and as a team (production and playout and me as announcer) we are never going to be able to please absolutely everyone.

Try keep an eye on things on a regular basis and always happy to take on board feedback and make improvements where possible.

[DH1875]

My thing is..........lets say they move the singing section permanently to FFL. Does Block 7 membership all of a sudden jump from 100 to 1000? Are we expected to come under their rulership if we move and follow their rules and regulations? Will they have a say in who is allowed in there and who isn't?
Has to be said but way they've tried to treat fellow fans in the past is a joke. I'd be happy to be part of a singing group but as for most of these kids, your having a laugh.

[West lower]

The best atmosphere at ER is when the traditional songs are sung. Block 7 ( or the folk my old man thought were a group of boy scouts outside ) should be encouraged but at ER they need to keep to the old songs to get the place bouncing. Just my opinion.

[tamig]

Block Seven are great for atmosphere, some of the antics away from home are not my taste have to say, but all in all they’re youngsters who are having a blast at the football. No need for the pyro but all in all they’ve made a real contribution to game day. Had a debate about them recently in my office and some likened then to the casual element of the 80’s. They’re nothing like that. Admittedly there’s some nonsense in toilets but hey, the casuals went from fighting each other to taking ecstasy and loving each other back in the 90’s. And the casuals brought nothing to an atmosphere other than growling, wearing crap clothes and running away a lot when the OB chased them 😂

I’m all for Block 7 to be honest 👍(just dinnae throw pyro)

That’s a totally ignorant view of the casual culture back in the 80s - and how things actually panned out back then. Did you travel away back then, as a matter of interest? And crap clothes? Wtf?

[Hibbyradge]

That’s a totally ignorant view of the casual culture back in the 80s - and how things actually panned out back then. Did you travel away back then, as a matter of interest? And crap clothes? Wtf?

:tee hee:

Admit it. It was the crap clothes comment that hooked you.

All that money...😉

[WhileTheChief..]

http://www.80scasualclassics.co.uk

[Eyrie]

Why do Block 7 wear black t-shirts when our colours are green and white?

[Hibiza]

Ma clothes were brilliant.

:top marks

[SChibs]

Why do Block 7 wear black t-shirts when our colours are green and white?

Why does it matter what they wear?

[Keith_M]

That’s a totally ignorant view of the casual culture back in the 80s - and how things actually panned out back then. Did you travel away back then, as a matter of interest? And crap clothes? Wtf?


I think he's only having a laugh mate.

[Jones28]

Why does it matter what they wear?

It’s a fair question though. We play in green and white, so why wear all black?

[Since90+2]

My thing is..........lets say they move the singing section permanently to FFL. Does Block 7 membership all of a sudden jump from 100 to 1000? Are we expected to come under their rulership if we move and follow their rules and regulations? Will they have a say in who is allowed in there and who isn't?
Has to be said but way they've tried to treat fellow fans in the past is a joke. I'd be happy to be part of a singing group but as for most of these kids, your having a laugh.

To answer your question no they won't have a say in who's allowed in or not. And no you don't have to be under their "rulership".

[Eyrie]

Why does it matter what they wear?

Think about it.


It’s a fair question though. We play in green and white, so why wear all black?

Exactly.

[CapitalGreen]

It’s a fair question though. We play in green and white, so why wear all black?

There will be thousands of people in the home end not wearing green today, do you question those fans or is this just another attempt to us/them a section of the Hibs support? Yes some of B7 behaviour shouldn’t be tolerated but what they wear harms absolutely no one.

[WhileTheChief..]

There will be more people wearing black than green at ER probably.

It’s a kinda popular colour for clothing at this time of year!

Dare say there will be Hibs fans wearing navy blue today. Against Dundee ffs. Ridiculous when you think about it!!

[Eyrie]

There will be thousands of people in the home end not wearing green today, do you question those fans or is this just another attempt to us/them a section of the Hibs support? Yes some of B7 behaviour shouldn’t be tolerated but what they wear harms absolutely no one.

There is an obvious difference between what an individual fan wears and what an organised group chooses as its uniform. The latter should reflect the team they are claiming to support.

[Keith_M]

Why do Block 7 wear black t-shirts when our colours are green and white?


It started with the advent of CCTV, where fans were easily identified in and out of stadiums in the event of any violence, throwing flares, etc. The benefits of a black hooded top were that the uniform colour, and the hood pulled up, reduces the chance of being identified

Now it's just the default colours/fashion for any groups copying other Ultras they see on the internet. I think there was a spell where some groups were wearing white T-Shirts, so our lot copied that for a few games as well.

Kids follow whatever's the current trend, it's nothing new.

[CapitalGreen]

There is an obvious difference between what an individual fan wears and what an organised group chooses as its uniform. The latter should reflect the team they are claiming to support.

Since when was there rules about what supporters had to wear?

“Claim to support”, are you suggesting they might not support Hibs because they don’t wear green to games?

[SteveHFC]

http://www.80scasualclassics.co.uk

They just opened up a shop in Glasgow the day.

[Keith_M]

They just opened up a shop in Glasgow the day.



Cool, so I can finally buy a replacement for my old Sergio Tacchini top... in a size that might actually fit me :greengrin

[Jones28]

There will be thousands of people in the home end not wearing green today, do you question those fans or is this just another attempt to us/them a section of the Hibs support? Yes some of B7 behaviour shouldn’t be tolerated but what they wear harms absolutely no one.

I just asked the question ffs.

I find it strange that they don’t wear green. That’s it.

[SChibs]

There is an obvious difference between what an individual fan wears and what an organised group chooses as its uniform. The latter should reflect the team they are claiming to support.

Is making noise for the majority of the game today not supporting the team enough for you? I hope you were starting songs and wearing green yourself

[Keith_M]

The thread was intended to be a discussion about the merits, or otherwise, of the Ultras culture in general, based on the linked article and recent incidents in The Netherlands.

I didn't really want to make this an argument over Block 7, which it seems to have turned unto, so I think I'll just close the thread