Just the £100million more

[Billy Whizz]

Celtic have just released their annual accounts, and it just show the gulf between them and the rest of the league
With a turnover now of almost £120m, they have more than £100m turnover greater than Hibs


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66848677

[Donegal Hibby]

Not having a go though some folk still expect us to compete with them and win cups regularly. Gaps getting bigger and bigger unfortunately

[PatHead]

Must be boring being a Celtic fan. Too good for Scotland and not good enough for Europe.

[Carheenlea]

It’s getting to a stage where Rangers will join the rest of us as also rans.

I know Rangers were absent from SPL or a year for two, but Celtic winning all but one title out of last 12 is an alarming trend.

Rangers may need to sail dangerous financial waters to gamble on trying halt this run, otherwise forget “10 in a row”, we could witness 20 in a row in our lifetime.

[HoboHarry]

It’s getting to a stage where Rangers will join the rest of us as also rans.

I know Rangers were absent from SPL or a year for two, but Celtic winning all but one title out of last 12 is an alarming trend.

Rangers may need to sail dangerous financial waters to gamble on trying halt this run, otherwise forget “10 in a row”, we could witness 20 in a row in our lifetime.
They already have joined the rest of us and they can't go nuclear on spending as they are already on the Fair Play watch list. Our friends in Europe have a set of balls unlike the SFA.

[Waxy]

The league is almost pointless now.
The rest of us have accepted to be playing for third before it starts and its pretty sad.

[Frazerbob]

And folk think it's 'good for Scottish football' when they reach the Champions League groups and trouser another £50m..........

[Frazerbob]

Not having a go though some folk still expect us to compete with them and win cups regularly. Gaps getting bigger and bigger unfortunately

Precisely. We've known for decades that nobody out with the Infirm can win the league. It's getting very close to being the same in the cups (yes I know they got knocked out the League Cup). Getting to a final will be our pinnacle soon.

[MagicSwirlingShip]

So much for “Trickle down Economics” the moneys just earning interest in their accounts

[Irish_Steve]

And it's the reason why Celtc will never leave the Scottish League (much as I would like them too and their toxic twin). Being the top dog is just a licence to print money for their owners, they would never get close to this amount if they went elsewhere, would never get into Europe either

[Iain G]

It’s getting to a stage where Rangers will join the rest of us as also rans.

I know Rangers were absent from SPL or a year for two, but Celtic winning all but one title out of last 12 is an alarming trend.

Rangers may need to sail dangerous financial waters to gamble on trying halt this run, otherwise forget “10 in a row”, we could witness 20 in a row in our lifetime.

Absent? They have only been in the premier League for a few seasons 😁

[GreenCastle]

Then folk say we need the old firm - if all other clubs left the league and let them play each other then it would be a better and closer league.

Ok financial hit at start but at least over time the league would be better and more competitive.

Old firm ruin Scottish football in so many ways and it’s a reason why teams like Hibs will never win the league. Clubs should be applauded for selling as many seats as they do playing for 3rd and below.

[Smartie]

It’s getting to a stage where Rangers will join the rest of us as also rans.

I know Rangers were absent from SPL or a year for two, but Celtic winning all but one title out of last 12 is an alarming trend.

Rangers may need to sail dangerous financial waters to gamble on trying halt this run, otherwise forget “10 in a row”, we could witness 20 in a row in our lifetime.

It’s not all bad news, really.

[Since452]

Quite incredible we pumped them 4-2 last season.

[Eyrie]

Then folk say we need the old firm - if all other clubs left the league and let them play each other then it would be a better and closer league.

Ok financial hit at start but at least over time the league would be better and more competitive.

Old firm ruin Scottish football in so many ways and it’s a reason why teams like Hibs will never win the league. Clubs should be applauded for selling as many seats as they do playing for 3rd and below.

Very true.

[B.H.F.C]

Quite incredible we pumped them 4-2 last season.

No really. They’d kind of chucked it at that point and we’ll always take something from them now and again.

[matty_f]

The gap is massive and when you see it in the accounts you see just how difficult it is for Hibs and others to compete.

The thing is you need to remember that this gap has been growing season on season for decades, but more so over the last 10-15 years so we see that disparity in these accounts but add that to last season and the season before etc and you start to see why even comparing Lennon’s record (for example) against those that came after him v the Old Firm isn’t really a like for like comparison.

Celtic, with that financial advantage, should win everything every season in Scotland. That’s borne out in the fact they’ve won multiple trebles over the last few years, they should actually consider it a failure when they don’t because it’s like men against boys most weeks for them.

[hibsfan7]

And yet with all that money they still refused to pay £5 million for john mcginn why beacause they did not want to give us the money they got brown for £4.4 million way back in 2007 so even £10 million would not have been a lot for them and they could have done with mcginn what they did with brown build a team around him so they can roy on hell for me

[lucky]

The gap between Celtic and Rangers is growing every season but because if the demands on Rangers someone will throw silly money about to close the gap. The gap between the Old Firm and Hibs, Hearts &Anpberdeen is growing and won't be closed anytime soon. But I also believe the money Hibs, Hearts & Aberdeen now spend and generate will see them pull away from the rest. Speaking with fans outside of the “Top 5”, is not a phrase I'd use, they all seem to think they are playing for 6th. That's from St Mirren, Livingston and Motherwell fans. Money talks in football and whilst we know we are unlikely to challenge for the league we can still have a go in the cups.

[worcesterhibby]

Despite the gap in income, Celtic can still only field 11 players..human beings. Same as us.

As Saudi, England, USA, Spain and Italy keep upping the cost of players, Celtic will be buying at a lower level than in the past, their players will be better than ours, but not by a crazy level. Their turnover is 120million....it currently costs £120m to buy a world class player and it's still rising. We need a good manager, a balanced squad and a lot of beleif, but I genuinely think we could frighten them. We just need to hang on to their coat tails for a season.. stay within touching distance, let Celtic and Rangers fight it out amongst themselves until the last 3 games of the season... do a Leicester... who knows, never stop dreaming :greengrin

[Northernhibee]

Aberdeen FC enabled this scenario.

[JeMeSouviens]

And it's the reason why Celtc will never leave the Scottish League (much as I would like them too and their toxic twin). Being the top dog is just a licence to print money for their owners, they would never get close to this amount if they went elsewhere, would never get into Europe either

Aston Villa turned over £170M last year without Europe. You think Celtc wouldn't do at least that if they were let in the Premier League?

[JeMeSouviens]

The league is almost pointless now.
The rest of us have accepted to be playing for third before it starts and its pretty sad.

:agree:

There's a league of 2 (and even that is pretty much a foregone conclusion) and another league of 10.

[Leithenhibby]

Must be boring being a Celtic fan. Too good for Scotland and not good enough for Europe.


Unfortunately for Scottish football, it's of their own doing...

The Uglies have continuously dismantled any threat posed to them by any team you care to name for decades, there is no sympathy from me if the competition isn't strong enough for them...:aok:

[JeMeSouviens]

Aberdeen FC enabled this scenario.

Not that I condone Aberdeen's craven vote, but they don't earn much in Scotland, it's Europe that's getting them the big bucks. Blame tv money, the big greedy European clubs and UEFA giving in to them.

[Northernhibee]

Not that I condone Aberdeen's craven vote, but they don't earn much in Scotland, it's Europe that's getting them the big bucks. Blame tv money, the big greedy European clubs and UEFA giving in to them.

Imagine if we could have a league with a salary cap (the two arse cheeks would never accept that). More teams with a chance of Europe and big money injections, likely increased support, but no.

[Michael]

Imagine if we could have a league with a salary cap (the two arse cheeks would never accept that). More teams with a chance of Europe and big money injections, likely increased support, but no.

You would need a European salary cap to be competitive in Europe though.

[Onion]

Must be boring being a Celtic fan. Too good for Scotland and not good enough for Europe.

If this was a company, the Government would be looking to break it up.

[Onion]

Unfortunately for Scottish football, it's of their own doing...

The Uglies have continuously dismantled any threat posed to them by any team you care to name for decades, there is no sympathy from me if the competition isn't strong enough for them...:aok:

Absolutely, and Hibs have been at the **** end of it for those decades. With that kind of gulf in finance, the SFA should be looking at ways to bolster competition within Scotland or at a minimum ensuring that Celtic (and Sevco) do not disproportionately profit from national TV / sponsorship deals or have any more political power than the smallest SPL clubs.

Celtic (and Sevco) will bleat and moan as usual, but frankly what are they going to do about it ? Leave Scotland ? Join England ? Nope, they're stuck here. And if they did manage to find an exit route, would any fans outwith the OF care ?

[DH1875]

The gap between Celtic and Rangers is growing every season but because if the demands on Rangers someone will throw silly money about to close the gap. The gap between the Old Firm and Hibs, Hearts &Anpberdeen is growing and won't be closed anytime soon. But I also believe the money Hibs, Hearts & Aberdeen now spend and generate will see them pull away from the rest. Speaking with fans outside of the “Top 5”, is not a phrase I'd use, they all seem to think they are playing for 6th. That's from St Mirren, Livingston and Motherwell fans. Money talks in football and whilst we know we are unlikely to challenge for the league we can still have a go in the cups.

Which is why the oldfirm will never be voted out of Scotland. If they were voted out then then other clubs are just replacing them with Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen but with less money. Doesn't matter if it celtic at the top or hibs at the top. Half the premier league would still have NO chance of winning it. You'd still get long long odds on any team outwith Hibs or Hearts or Aberdeen.
Then there is the rest of the teams. Do folk really think it makes a difference to the clubs in the lower leagues. Why any of these teams would vote out rangers and celtic so that hibs can win the league while their still playing away in league one is beyond me.

[WhileTheChief..]

Doesn’t really matter how big the gap is or gets.

It’s always going to be then or rangers winning the league and I’d rather Celtic to continue to win it in perpetuity that rangers win it again.

It’s totally irrelevant to me as a Hibs fan and doesn’t affect us on the slightest.

Same as Bayern and the likes. Nobody really cares apart from their own fans.

[cocteautwin]

The league is almost pointless now.
The rest of us have accepted to be playing for third before it starts and its pretty sad.

To be honest we probably should be playing for 4th. It’s only the incompetence from the Tynecastle board of directors, with their extra £5m of cash p.a. , that keeps us in with a chance of 3rd. Idiots.

[DIXIHIBS]

Which is why the oldfirm will never be voted out of Scotland. If they were voted out then then other clubs are just replacing them with Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen but with less money. Doesn't matter if it celtic at the top or hibs at the top. Half the premier league would still have NO chance of winning it. You'd still get long long odds on any team outwith Hibs or Hearts or Aberdeen.
Then there is the rest of the teams. Do folk really think it makes a difference to the clubs in the lower leagues. Why any of these teams would vote out rangers and celtic so that hibs can win the league while their still playing away in league one is beyond me.

I dont think hibs/hertz/dons would just replace the OF, at least not to the same extent. "The rest" regularly beat the next 3 and livi/well and others regularly break into the top 5. Add in less money overall through tv etc then the gap wouldnt be that big imho. Yes hibs/hertz/dons would be favourites but no way are they going to be 20/30 points ahead of the rest. The overall interest in scottish football to the outside world without the OF would be considerably less, but would that really make much difference to the rest? I beleive we would have a more competitive league, because of that, any teams challenging would see crowds up, but overall quality of the game would be down through lower finances. Never happen but i would really like something to change as the gap is only going to get worse.

[worcesterhibby]

We are not much different to the vast majority of leagues in Europe

England - Man City have won 5 of the last 6 titles and 7 of the last 12 (despite the vast amount of money spent by other clubs)
Germany - Bayern have won 11 titles in a row
Spain - Real Madrid or Barca have won 17 of the last 19 titles
Netherlands - Only twice since 1964 has the title not been won by PSV, Feynoord or Ajax
France - PSV have won 9 of the last 11 titles
Portugal - 20 of last 21 were either Porto or Benfica
Swiss - only 3 teams have won in last 20 years
Greece - Olympiakos have won 12 of the last 15 titles

Only Italy are bucking the trend with four different winners in the last 4 years..but Juve did win 9 in a row before that.

We are just a bit more depressing again..

Scotland - last 38 titles won by either Rangers or Celtic

Modern football is about football teams as "Brands" winning everything.

[wookie70]

We should absolutely target winning cups. That isn't the same as expecting to win them and only one team needs to beat Celtc to knock them out and that doesn't need to be us. Every team can be beaten in a one off and that is the beauty of the cups and why the Champions League is done in League format to try and ensure the wealthiest clubs progress

[Smartie]

We are not much different to the vast majority of leagues in Europe

England - Man City have won 5 of the last 6 titles and 7 of the last 12 (despite the vast amount of money spent by other clubs)
Germany - Bayern have won 11 titles in a row
Spain - Real Madrid or Barca have won 17 of the last 19 titles
Netherlands - Only twice since 1964 has the title not been won by PSV, Feynoord or Ajax
France - PSV have won 9 of the last 11 titles
Portugal - 20 of last 21 were either Porto or Benfica
Swiss - only 3 teams have won in last 20 years
Greece - Olympiakos have won 12 of the last 15 titles

Only Italy are bucking the trend with four different winners in the last 4 years..but Juve did win 9 in a row before that.

We are just a bit more depressing again..

Scotland - last 38 titles won by either Rangers or Celtic

Modern football is about football teams as "Brands" winning everything.

Modern football is actually crap when you look at it and I've totally lost interest over the past decade. This is the first season in 25 that I've not even had a season ticket for Easter Road.

Funnily enough, over the past year I've got quite into American football. Part of it is probably a honeymoon period of a new interest but I much prefer it now as a spectacle. The Sunday evening for watching games fits nicely into my social schedule and it feels like in the NFL there is a genuine level of competition.

Being expected to rock up to Easter Road at midday, paying top whack to be cannon fodder in a sectarian bun fight wasn't really what I got into all those years ago. Derbies I still enjoy and the games "against the rest" interest me but the actual SPFL competition is of next to zero interest. I've been to less than one away game per year over the last 5 but a decade ago I'd have been at 90% of them.

There still seems to be enough folk willing to stump up and turn up so I don't really expect anything to change, unless more people stop and think "wait a minute - this is actually crap" and stop going/ paying tv subscriptions etc etc. Enough folk are obviously happy enough with what they're seeing.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66853131

Judging by the number of historic abuse cases Celtic are currently trying to settle they might be glad of those hefty profits.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The only realistic way of changing it either domestically or in Europe is a wage cap but if that ever was a realistic prospect the Saudi Arabians have firmly shut the door on it, certainly in a European context.

But the real problem is TV the blame for this situation lies squarely at their door. The league format of every European competition is down to pressure from them to keep the more 'attractive' clubs in the competitions for as long as possible. The clubs already at a financial advantage in their domestic leagues have been able to stretch that advantage massively through the riches to be earned in Europe .... there is no bigger example of that than Celtic.

I still stand by my widely derided idea of a fan awarded 3rd place trophy ... over the last few years both Killie and Motherwell have finished 3rd, 10 years ago even St Johnstone managed it, so it isn't just the preserve of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen. If the fans of the other clubs organised to the extent of funding a prize, say £100,000, and even managed to get a sponsor for it willing to top up the prize money, it could be a goer.

IMO such a move would highlight the frustration of fans over the disparity in our league and would attract significant publicity world wide, perhaps it would even be copied by fans in leagues with similar issues. It would be a chance for some spokesperson to appear on telly explaining the thinking behind it, even to the extent of shaming those who leave towns all over Scotland to follow the uglies to the detriment of their local clubs.

The usual accusation is that it looks like me advocating chucking the towel in ..... when you look at threads like this one and countless others like it, after 38 rounds where the non Uglies boxer has been on the ropes getting a pummeling with the referee not stopping the fight surely chucking in the towel is the only sane option, especially if it highlights the fact that the fight had been between a heavyweight and a flyweight.

[Torto7]

Tbf to Smelltic they have been run very well for a number of years, DD doesn't really like football and he's very unpopular but he's always demanded they don't overreach. Almost the anti hun way of doing things which I'm sure they'll love. Although they are in the tricky position of trying to compete with the big boys for champions league loot and not leaving themselves with a huge black hole if they don't qualify.

Football is utterly dull these days and only the cups bring a degree of hope to most clubs. It's time for playoffs imo.

[Tyler Durden]

Modern football is actually crap when you look at it and I've totally lost interest over the past decade. This is the first season in 25 that I've not even had a season ticket for Easter Road.

Funnily enough, over the past year I've got quite into American football. Part of it is probably a honeymoon period of a new interest but I much prefer it now as a spectacle. The Sunday evening for watching games fits nicely into my social schedule and it feels like in the NFL there is a genuine level of competition.

Being expected to rock up to Easter Road at midday, paying top whack to be cannon fodder in a sectarian bun fight wasn't really what I got into all those years ago. Derbies I still enjoy and the games "against the rest" interest me but the actual SPFL competition is of next to zero interest. I've been to less than one away game per year over the last 5 but a decade ago I'd have been at 90% of them.

There still seems to be enough folk willing to stump up and turn up so I don't really expect anything to change, unless more people stop and think "wait a minute - this is actually crap" and stop going/ paying tv subscriptions etc etc. Enough folk are obviously happy enough with what they're seeing.

I think you're just describing aging to be honest mate! I'm probably similar as many of us stop going to away games once you have a family and hit your 40s etc.

But we were cannon fodder in the 90s/00s aswell. Nothing has really changed in that regard.

I think modern football is great. I'd still reminisce about English football in the 90s but it's just nostalgia in the same way you'd look back on music or films of your preferred era.

[HoboHarry]

I think you're just describing aging to be honest mate! I'm probably similar as many of us stop going to away games once you have a family and hit your 40s etc.

But we were cannon fodder in the 90s/00s aswell. Nothing has really changed in that regard.

I think modern football is great. I'd still reminisce about English football in the 90s but it's just nostalgia in the same way you'd look back on music or films of your preferred era.
I've wondered many times if I would have had even the slightest interest in football/soccer if I'd grown up here instead of arriving as an adult. Like Smartie, NFL grew on me pretty quickly and I was a Chiefs fan from the off due to location at that time. They were s***e back then, unlike the present with the Mahomes era. Going to a game is a whole day thing and leaves our version of football in the rear view mirror as an event.

[DH1875]

The only realistic way of changing it either domestically or in Europe is a wage cap but if that ever was a realistic prospect the Saudi Arabians have firmly shut the door on it, certainly in a European context.

But the real problem is TV the blame for this situation lies squarely at their door. The league format of every European competition is down to pressure from them to keep the more 'attractive' clubs in the competitions for as long as possible. The clubs already at a financial advantage in their domestic leagues have been able to stretch that advantage massively through the riches to be earned in Europe .... there is no bigger example of that than Celtic.

I still stand by my widely derided idea of a fan awarded 3rd place trophy ... over the last few years both Killie and Motherwell have finished 3rd, 10 years ago even St Johnstone managed it, so it isn't just the preserve of Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen. If the fans of the other clubs organised to the extent of funding a prize, say £100,000, and even managed to get a sponsor for it willing to top up the prize money, it could be a goer.

IMO such a move would highlight the frustration of fans over the disparity in our league and would attract significant publicity world wide, perhaps it would even be copied by fans in leagues with similar issues. It would be a chance for some spokesperson to appear on telly explaining the thinking behind it, even to the extent of shaming those who leave towns all over Scotland to follow the uglies to the detriment of their local clubs.

The usual accusation is that it looks like me advocating chucking the towel in ..... when you look at threads like this one and countless others like it, after 38 rounds where the non Uglies boxer has been on the ropes getting a pummeling with the referee not stopping the fight surely chucking in the towel is the only sane option, especially if it highlights the fact that the fight had been between a heavyweight and a flyweight.

Saudi Arabia are getting teams into the champions league in 2 years time. Group stages and you know what, doesn't even need to be their champions as its an invitation for a team to join. Any of 7 teams can be invited so Saudi Arabia and the TV companies have already spoken.

[Keith_M]

Saudi Arabia are getting teams into the champions league in 2 years time. Group stages and you know what, doesn't even need to be their champions as its an invitation for a team to join. Any of 7 teams can be invited so Saudi Arabia and the TV companies have already spoken.


Is this a wind-up, or are they actually gonna do that?

[Paul1642]

Saudi Arabia are getting teams into the champions league in 2 years time. Group stages and you know what, doesn't even need to be their champions as its an invitation for a team to join. Any of 7 teams can be invited so Saudi Arabia and the TV companies have already spoken.

This is not official but no doubt something similar will happen in years to come. Football will continue to follow the money. We only avoided the super league due to fan backlash and even then we are effectively getting it by the back door with the new champions league format.

The game is already so far away from the working man. The next step will be more games oversees. Right now it’s pre season friendly tournaments. Next will be the English league cup or FA cup.

Then we have the World Cup plans to expand massively but without many extra places for European teams who are actually capable of competing to some degree in the early rounds.

[Paul1642]

Celtic are long gone out of reach and this will never be clawed back now.

The only interesting thing to see is if Rangers get back to competing with Celtic, remain as the 2nd force by a large distance or if they gradually fall back to competing with the likes of us, Hearts and Aberdeen.

[Since452]

Saudi Arabia are getting teams into the champions league in 2 years time. Group stages and you know what, doesn't even need to be their champions as its an invitation for a team to join. Any of 7 teams can be invited so Saudi Arabia and the TV companies have already spoken.

I can't take the Champions League seriously anymore as it is without that nonsense.

[HoboHarry]

Celtic are long gone out of reach and this will never be clawed back now.

The only interesting thing to see is if Rangers get back to competing with Celtic, remain as the 2nd force by a large distance or if they gradually fall back to competing with the likes of us, Hearts and Aberdeen.
Based on Celtics figures just released, Sevco aren't catching them any time soon and it would take a monumental implosion on Celtic's part to allow that to happen. Sevco making a loss most years vs Celtic's pre tax profit just announced as 40.7M. There will be brogues drenched with tears in the Sevco boardroom today.

[KeithTheHibby]

Saudi Arabia are getting teams into the champions league in 2 years time. Group stages and you know what, doesn't even need to be their champions as its an invitation for a team to join. Any of 7 teams can be invited so Saudi Arabia and the TV companies have already spoken.

No offence but who told you that pile of dog *****?

[HoboHarry]

No offence but who told you that pile of dog *****?
First I've heard that but I wouldn't be shocked. The concept of inviting wild card entries, especially those with money to burn, sounds entirely plausible IMHO.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

The gap is massive and when you see it in the accounts you see just how difficult it is for Hibs and others to compete.

The thing is you need to remember that this gap has been growing season on season for decades, but more so over the last 10-15 years so we see that disparity in these accounts but add that to last season and the season before etc and you start to see why even comparing Lennon’s record (for example) against those that came after him v the Old Firm isn’t really a like for like comparison.

Celtic, with that financial advantage, should win everything every season in Scotland. That’s borne out in the fact they’ve won multiple trebles over the last few years, they should actually consider it a failure when they don’t because it’s like men against boys most weeks for them.

It will surely plateau tho’?
Sure they may skoosh the league but as the gulf increases in Europe they will find it tough to draw in players that will help them make a real impact on the Champs league?

Surely not outwith the realms of possibility that Sky and the other TV company king makers will wait for more clubs to go to the wall and then make their move for some kind of reconstruction / celebrity squares type league or competition to bring them into the fold…

[scoopyboy]

No offence but who told you that pile of dog *****?

Australia got into the Eurovision Song Contest so it might happen:greengrin

[HoboHarry]

Australia got into the Eurovision Song Contest so it might happen:greengrin
Well in fairness there is a history of European settlers (ahem) going there and the singing is pretty criminal from what I've seen.....

[McD]

I've wondered many times if I would have had even the slightest interest in football/soccer if I'd grown up here instead of arriving as an adult. Like Smartie, NFL grew on me pretty quickly and I was a Chiefs fan from the off due to location at that time. They were s***e back then, unlike the present with the Mahomes era. Going to a game is a whole day thing and leaves our version of football in the rear view mirror as an event.



The NFL and NBA try to make it worthwhile for fans to attend or even watch on tv. They also both seek to keep one/a few teams from dominating over long periods by using the draft system, free agency and salary caps, all to give fans of every team hope and keep things fresh. As you said, the Chiefs were poor a while back, but by good drafting, they’ve got a generational QB and are reaping the rewards. Chances are they’ll fall back again in the future, as other current crappy teams get the chance to draft or find their inspirational players.

The system, by and large, also rewards good front office people when they plan and deliver good strategy and drafting, unlike here where hearts continue to waste money, yet rarely do you hear their fans or media question this, or rangers trying desperately to sign half a team every window.

[Smartie]

Celtic are long gone out of reach and this will never be clawed back now.

The only interesting thing to see is if Rangers get back to competing with Celtic, remain as the 2nd force by a large distance or if they gradually fall back to competing with the likes of us, Hearts and Aberdeen.

I could genuinely, honestly see Rangers dying again (only this time properly) in their pursuit of trying to keep up with Celtic.

And without Rangers, is there any point in Celtic? They'd surely drop back eventually without their pals.

That's the only way I can see any real change happening.

Football's weird in that you view it from the perspective of your own club. I'm quite comfortable with the fact that we can have a good season but not stand a chance of winning the league. Defeat and failure is part of the story and the same will be true of many millions of fans.

As competitions though, football leagues have ended up being quite crap, dull and uninteresting to any sort of neutral observer. That doesn't mean there aren't interesting storylines along the way and there still seem to be plenty of people prepared to stump up hefty sums of cash to watch all sorts of levels of football so it's hard to say that they're doing much wrong.

Without wishing to get firmly into Holy Ground territory it does all feel like the crass, end days of capitalism playing out with unrelatable elites and disgusting chasms between the haves and the have nots of the game and society. You often wonder how sustainable any of it is and what happens if anything were to happen to shake it... but I digress.

[Torto7]

This is not official but no doubt something similar will happen in years to come. Football will continue to follow the money. We only avoided the super league due to fan backlash and even then we are effectively getting it by the back door with the new champions league format.

The game is already so far away from the working man. The next step will be more games oversees. Right now it’s pre season friendly tournaments. Next will be the English league cup or FA cup.

Then we have the World Cup plans to expand massively but without many extra places for European teams who are actually capable of competing to some degree in the early rounds.

:agree: The 'brand' demands it.:sairhead: You'll get marketing ***** in the future about 'origin' games etc as if the locals should be happy.

Prepare for NY/LA etc in the future as well. Once the parasites get their teeth sunk in it's all over and football invited the parasite class in a very long time ago.
Not that I give a toss tbh. As long as Hibs remain at Easter Road. The English have a cash cow just now but the bigger players want their cut.

[PatHead]

If The Rangers were to fail surely all their fans would follow Celtic as they are also a Glasgow club?

👹

[Phil MaGlass]

Aberdeen FC enabled this scenario.

Yep and it still bugs ma lils.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Punt the cheeks out the league Cup and give us all a tournament that we have a fair chance of winning

[DH1875]

No offence but who told you that pile of dog *****?

Read it in four four two magazine. Quick Google search and article is dated 18th August so feel free to read it and then share your thoughts.

[Big_Franck]

And folk think it's 'good for Scottish football' when they reach the Champions League groups and trouser another £50m..........

Totally agree, we hear this all the time. Rangers or Celtic reach the group stages and they pocket tens of millions, while we get some additional payment of around 250k for them playing in the groups. The gap just keeps getting bigger and bigger that way. The only way we can compete in the cups (the league is long gone) is if Celtic have a few years like the Ronny Deila years and they become beatable again. I hope they get pumped in every single group game, as there is significant money on offer for each win.

[Hibs4185]

Unfortunately champions league for the ugly sisters and better European qualification for the us and the other teams is the only way we are going to keep up with the OF and other European nations.

If we don’t keep up, the euro qualification spankings will only get worse as other teams in other countries pull ahead even more.

Celtic nearly went bust all those years ago.

Thankfully businessman like RG and others can see a path where we can grow us a club organically over the coming years and begin to competeD

If we keep greeting about how much richer they are and how we can’t compete, we might as well give up.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Unfortunately champions league for the ugly sisters and better European qualification for the us and the other teams is the only way we are going to keep up with the OF and other European nations.

If we don’t keep up, the euro qualification spankings will only get worse as other teams in other countries pull ahead even more.

Celtic nearly went bust all those years ago.

Thankfully businessman like RG and others can see a path where we can grow us a club organically over the coming years and begin to competeD

If we keep greeting about how much richer they are and how we can’t compete, we might as well give up.

If we sold out every league game and so did Celtic at an average of £25 a ticket Hibs at home would make £500,000 Celtic would make £1,500,000. Over an 18 home game season Hibs would make £9,000,000 Celtic would make £27,000,000 As it is Celtic almost do sell out, we are some way off.

Hearts got pumped by a Greek team who average at home around 5000 less than they do ... the Greek league has a TV deal more than double what the Scottish premiership does, that's a big factor.

Hibs can do as much as they want to improve finances and no doubt they work very hard at it. But the lack of a proper TV deal where the money is evenly distributed holds us back big time in a European context at least. I've said it before, but the loss of Ron Gordon and his expertise in this area before he had a chance to have an input is nothing short of a disaster for the SPFL.

I recall not so long ago the SFA / SPFL invited Barry Hearn to address them and had to sit politely as he absolutely trashed their inability to maximise our games true worth. Instead of the SFA / SPFL paying two guys near on half a million quid a year between them to make a dugs dinner out of our game, they could do worse than pay someone like Hearn, someone who's been there and done that with a proven track record to negotiate our next TV deal.

[GreenCastle]

New Champions League format for next season..

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37628341/champions-league-revamp-how-competition-work?platform=amp

Pretty confusing - seems you don’t drop into Europa league either.

[HoboHarry]

New Champions League format for next season..

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37628341/champions-league-revamp-how-competition-work?platform=amp

Pretty confusing - seems you don’t drop into Europa league either.
Read that yesterday. Remember the outrage when the top teams tried to create their own super league? This format is the beginning of just that and we'll see the top tier clubs break away within the next few years I would expect.

[Hibs4185]

If we sold out every league game and so did Celtic at an average of £25 a ticket Hibs at home would make £500,000 Celtic would make £1,500,000. Over an 18 home game season Hibs would make £9,000,000 Celtic would make £27,000,000 As it is Celtic almost do sell out, we are some way off.

Hearts got pumped by a Greek team who average at home around 5000 less than they do ... the Greek league has a TV deal more than double what the Scottish premiership does, that's a big factor.

Hibs can do as much as they want to improve finances and no doubt they work very hard at it. But the lack of a proper TV deal where the money is evenly distributed holds us back big time in a European context at least. I've said it before, but the loss of Ron Gordon and his expertise in this area before he had a chance to have an input is nothing short of a disaster for the SPFL.

I recall not so long ago the SFA / SPFL invited Barry Hearn to address them and had to sit politely as he absolutely trashed their inability to maximise our games true worth. Instead of the SFA / SPFL paying two guys near on half a million quid a year between them to make a dugs dinner out of our game, they could do worse than pay someone like Hearn, someone who's been there and done that with a proven track record to negotiate our next TV deal.

Eventually you get to a point with European and tv money that gate receipts aren’t the be all and end all. Unfortunately at the moment gate receipts are the main income.

European football creates exposure, gives the teams more money to be able to compete and hopefully in the future get a better TV deal.

I hate saying it but world football is becoming bigger and bigger and to be a part of it, we need to be involved in Europe which means the ugly sisters doing well.

If not, we just become more and more of a football backwater and even more dependent on gate money and shopping for players in league 2/3.

[The Modfather]

Totally agree, we hear this all the time. Rangers or Celtic reach the group stages and they pocket tens of millions, while we get some additional payment of around 250k for them playing in the groups. The gap just keeps getting bigger and bigger that way. The only way we can compete in the cups (the league is long gone) is if Celtic have a few years like the Ronny Deila years and they become beatable again. I hope they get pumped in every single group game, as there is significant money on offer for each win.

Rangers & Celtc are, and sadly always will be, out of reach for the rest of us for ever more. Whether they make the champions league or not. Whether they have a Dalia and one of the others has a Mcinnes team, the league will only ever be won by them. That Dalia season they still won the league by 18 points.

I’m not sure there’s much difference to us in one of them winning the league/finishing above the rest of us by 15 points without champions league money v winning it/finishing above the rest by 30 points with champions league money. The guaranteed group stage money (we have, predictably, managed to miss thus far) is as a result of the likes of Rangers doing well in Europe.

It’s depressing, but financially it’s becoming a league if 2, then a league of 3, then the rest. At least for the rest 3rd is a fairly realistic proposition every so often if the stars align correctly.

[worcesterhibby]

New Champions League format for next season..

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37628341/champions-league-revamp-how-competition-work?platform=amp

Pretty confusing - seems you don’t drop into Europa league either.

Amazingly, that actually looks like an improvement ! Really good to see that Champions League losers don't drop into the Europa League and no teams from the Europa will drop down to the Conference. Some smaller clubs could actually win something. Get to the group stages of the conference and you are gaurtenteed 6 games.. in the Europa you get 8.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Rangers & Celtc are, and sadly always will be, out of reach for the rest of us for ever more. Whether they make the champions league or not. Whether they have a Dalia and one of the others has a Mcinnes team, the league will only ever be won by them. That Dalia season they still won the league by 18 points.

I’m not sure there’s much difference to us in one of them winning the league/finishing above the rest of us by 15 points without champions league money v winning it/finishing above the rest by 30 points with champions league money. The guaranteed group stage money (we have, predictably, managed to miss thus far) is as a result of the likes of Rangers doing well in Europe.

It’s depressing, but financially it’s becoming a league if 2, then a league of 3, then the rest. At least for the rest 3rd is a fairly realistic proposition every so often if the stars align correctly.

Pretty much why I more or less sacked it after The Holy Grail was achieved, my job was done. Sad but, more or less true.

[Haymaker]

Pretty much why I more or less sacked it after The Holy Grail was achieved, my job was done. Sad but, more or less true.

I had this conversation with my old man. Seen us win both cups live. There's nothing else now. I'm still a Hibs man but realistically there's nothing else. Just small things like seeing Hibs play away in Europe but as I live in North America now that's just a pipe dream.

[worcesterhibby]

I had this conversation with my old man. Seen us win both cups live. There's nothing else now. I'm still a Hibs man but realistically there's nothing else. Just small things like seeing Hibs play away in Europe but as I live in North America now that's just a pipe dream.

Or seeing Griffiths back at ER.. of course :greengrin

[Haymaker]

Or seeing Griffiths back at ER.. of course :greengrin100%!

Sent from my SM-A426U1 using Tapatalk

[Big_Franck]

Rangers & Celtc are, and sadly always will be, out of reach for the rest of us for ever more. Whether they make the champions league or not. Whether they have a Dalia and one of the others has a Mcinnes team, the league will only ever be won by them. That Dalia season they still won the league by 18 points.

I’m not sure there’s much difference to us in one of them winning the league/finishing above the rest of us by 15 points without champions league money v winning it/finishing above the rest by 30 points with champions league money. The guaranteed group stage money (we have, predictably, managed to miss thus far) is as a result of the likes of Rangers doing well in Europe.

It’s depressing, but financially it’s becoming a league if 2, then a league of 3, then the rest. At least for the rest 3rd is a fairly realistic proposition every so often if the stars align correctly.

Yep, the league is definitely out of our reach whether they get champions league money or not. My point was the champions league money makes the two Scottish cup competitions almost impossible for us as well. When Deila was at Celtic they won 1 league cup, as did Ross County and the Scottish Cups were won by us and by Inverness. I can't see that happening again while Celtic and Rangers are raking in tens of millions in Europe.

[Smartie]

Pretty much why I more or less sacked it after The Holy Grail was achieved, my job was done. Sad but, more or less true.

I definitely feel like I "completed football" when we secured the Scottish Cup and that has also played a part in my interest tailing off.

[Frazerbob]

Pretty much why I more or less sacked it after The Holy Grail was achieved, my job was done. Sad but, more or less true.

Genuine question....if you more or less sacked it 7 years ago, why do you still spend so much time on here?

[marinello59]

I definitely feel like I "completed football" when we secured the Scottish Cup and that has also played a part in my interest tailing off.

Not for me. It was a wonderful day which will probably never be topped but I'm as excited as ever on every match day morning. There are plenty more memorable days to come. The generation who grew up watching the Famous Five didn't lose interest after the league was won.

Keep the faith. :thumbsup:

[DH1875]

Yep, the league is definitely out of our reach whether they get champions league money or not. My point was the champions league money makes the two Scottish cup competitions almost impossible for us as well. When Deila was at Celtic they won 1 league cup, as did Ross County and the Scottish Cups were won by us and by Inverness. I can't see that happening again while Celtic and Rangers are raking in tens of millions in Europe.

Have you seen rangers and celtic this season? Their both terrible. Sure they'll end up strolling the league but the league Cup is 100% up for grabs. Celtic are already out FFS.

I've been a Hibs fan for over 30 years and in all that time I've never expected us to win or challenge for the league title (championship aside). To me its never been what being a Hibs fan is all about. I'm not some uber fan I'm the same as MILLIONS of football fans across the world. If it sucks being a Hibs fan cause we can only win cups then must be pretty crap if your a Partick Thistle, Dunfermline, Falkirk Raith Rovers or Morton fan yet alone a fan of teams like Clyde or Peterhead.
There are 72 professional teams in the English leagues. How many of them are even in with a chance of winning the EPL? TWO at most. Leeds, Sunderland, Aston Villa, Derby, Sheffield clubs should all just give up and jack it in. Bristol City/Rovers fans, Coventry fans, Cardiff fans, whats the point.
Like I said earlier, there are fans of Millions of teams from across the globe who's never gonna win anything or who's fans have never been to a national cup final. Everyone of them should be applauded and like me they support their team well..........because its their team.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Genuine question....if you more or less sacked it 7 years ago, why do you still spend so much time on here?

I still manage to watch the games, I just rarely attend these days.

[Frazerbob]

I still manage to watch the games, I just rarely attend these days.

Do you not miss meeting pals, the pub before or after, the traveling to other cities etc? All that is can be more important than the games and probably what's stopped me leaving Scotland for any period of time. I'd miss it too much.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Do you not miss meeting pals, the pub before or after, the traveling to other cities etc? All that is can be more important than the games and probably what's stopped me leaving Scotland for any period of time. I'd miss it too much.

I still manage to fit in the pals, pub and travelling parts just not as frequently to games.

[jacomo]

I definitely feel like I "completed football" when we secured the Scottish Cup and that has also played a part in my interest tailing off.


As Irvine Welsh said at the time, the Hibs ‘hoodoo’ was one of the most interesting stories in Scottish football and an annual talking point.

Then we ruined it. :greengrin

[Since452]

Pretty much why I more or less sacked it after The Holy Grail was achieved, my job was done. Sad but, more or less true.

Had the opposite effect for me. Made me crave more of that feeling. The big goal for me now is European group stage football and the trips and memories that go with it. Aberdeen will likely get battered but a couple of nights in Frankfurt? Yes please.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Had the opposite effect for me. Made me crave more of that feeling. The big goal for me now is European group stage football and the trips and memories that go with it. Aberdeen will likely get battered but a couple of nights in Frankfurt? Yes please.

Yup, I'm sure that I could still be tempted along on such escapades. 🙂

[NAE NOOKIE]

Have you seen rangers and celtic this season? Their both terrible. Sure they'll end up strolling the league but the league Cup is 100% up for grabs. Celtic are already out FFS.

I've been a Hibs fan for over 30 years and in all that time I've never expected us to win or challenge for the league title (championship aside). To me its never been what being a Hibs fan is all about. I'm not some uber fan I'm the same as MILLIONS of football fans across the world. If it sucks being a Hibs fan cause we can only win cups then must be pretty crap if your a Partick Thistle, Dunfermline, Falkirk Raith Rovers or Morton fan yet alone a fan of teams like Clyde or Peterhead.
There are 72 professional teams in the English leagues. How many of them are even in with a chance of winning the EPL? TWO at most. Leeds, Sunderland, Aston Villa, Derby, Sheffield clubs should all just give up and jack it in. Bristol City/Rovers fans, Coventry fans, Cardiff fans, whats the point.
Like I said earlier, there are fans of Millions of teams from across the globe who's never gonna win anything or who's fans have never been to a national cup final. Everyone of them should be applauded and like me they support their team well..........because its their team.

:top marks

Absolutely bang on. We moan a lot because in the grand scheme of things we support a club that should do better, that has the potential to win more than one trophy every 15 years, which is our historic average, but it rarely lives up to that potential.

As you say, there are clubs all over Scotland, Europe, the World, who's fans would absolutely bite your hand off for one national trophy in their entire lifetime supporting it and yet they still turn out in numbers to support their clubs, even with little prospect of ever winning anything..

If there really are Hibs fans out there who lost interest after we won the Scottish cup in 2016 then all we did is replace one Scottish cup curse with another. Personally I can't wait for us to win another trophy, the sooner the better ... I might not rank it up there with 2016, but I'll bloody well revel in it all the same and the next morning drag myself out of my alcohol soaked pit to get the train to Edinburgh for the victory parade, just as I did in 2016 :greengrin

Mon the Hibees :flag:

[matty_f]

:top marks

Absolutely bang on. We moan a lot because in the grand scheme of things we support a club that should do better, that has the potential to win more than one trophy every 15 years, which is our historic average, but it rarely lives up to that potential.

As you say, there are clubs all over Scotland, Europe, the World, who's fans would absolutely bite your hand off for one national trophy in their entire lifetime supporting it and yet they still turn out in numbers to support their clubs, even with little prospect of ever winning anything..

If there really are Hibs fans out there who lost interest after we won the Scottish cup in 2016 then all we did is replace one Scottish cup curse with another. Personally I can't wait for us to win another trophy, the sooner the better ... I might not rank it up there with 2016, but I'll bloody well revel in it all the same and the next morning drag myself out of my alcohol soaked pit to get the train to Edinburgh for the victory parade, just as I did in 2016 :greengrin

Mon the Hibees :flag:
Love this. :agree:

[HoboHarry]

:top marks

Absolutely bang on. We moan a lot because in the grand scheme of things we support a club that should do better, that has the potential to win more than one trophy every 15 years, which is our historic average, but it rarely lives up to that potential.

As you say, there are clubs all over Scotland, Europe, the World, who's fans would absolutely bite your hand off for one national trophy in their entire lifetime supporting it and yet they still turn out in numbers to support their clubs, even with little prospect of ever winning anything..

If there really are Hibs fans out there who lost interest after we won the Scottish cup in 2016 then all we did is replace one Scottish cup curse with another. Personally I can't wait for us to win another trophy, the sooner the better ... I might not rank it up there with 2016, but I'll bloody well revel in it all the same and the next morning drag myself out of my alcohol soaked pit to get the train to Edinburgh for the victory parade, just as I did in 2016 :greengrin

Mon the Hibees :flag:
Some of your posts of late have been just top class. Bravo mate, keep 'em coming....:top marks

[Paulie Walnuts]

I definitely feel like I "completed football" when we secured the Scottish Cup and that has also played a part in my interest tailing off.

I’m in the same boat as you but it wasn’t the Scottish Cup win that done it.

Think I just got fed up of years of brutal football from pretty much summer 2018 onwards and that happened when I got to an age where I started to get new interests.

As it is just now, I don’t see me being in a hurry to get back to having a season ticket. I realised that there’s plenty other things I enjoy more than watching a very poor standard of football with no real prospect of winning anything.

[flash]

I’m in the same boat as you but it wasn’t the Scottish Cup win that done it.

Think I just got fed up of years of brutal football from pretty much summer 2018 onwards and that happened when I got to an age where I started to get new interests.

As it is just now, I don’t see me being in a hurry to get back to having a season ticket. I realised that there’s plenty other things I enjoy more than watching a very poor standard of football with no real prospect of winning anything.
Was 2016 your first season?

[Ringothedog]

The great thing is that with every person who has stopped going to Easter Road because we won the Scottish cup it would appear 2 have come along to take their place. Our crowds since 2016 seem to prove that.

[DickieDastardly]

The league disparity is hugely impacted by playing each other 4 times per season, which means 24 points up for grabs against the ugly sisters. Most teams will be lucky to get one win and a couple of draws from that, hence the points gap at the end of the season is always large.

Increase the league size and go back to only playing twice per season, that would close the league, make the fixtures much more interesting and remove the boring familiarity of the current set up.

Sadly TV demands and club selfishness will mean it will probably never happen….
.

[Dashing Bob S]

The league is almost pointless now.
The rest of us have accepted to be playing for third before it starts and its pretty sad.

Sadly a global trend. Even in the much hyped English Premiership Manchester City had won it before a ball was kicked. Admittedly the financial differences between them and the other top English clubs isn’t a severe as the Celtic-Scotland case but they can still afford the best players and coach.