Tavares

[hibee-boys]

Appreciate that he’s not been around the first team for a while but thought he looked pretty average. Couple of decent moments but I feel that we’ll ultimately need to add better quality out wide options if we stick with a 442.

[Phil MaGlass]

It's possibly less about race with jair and more that he's seen as a luxury player? Someone with bags of potential, good skills but "just too lightweight and not right for Scottish game" whatever that is. Maybe try telling kyogo that!

FWIW I think there's a player in there, remember it was only his second game back, thought there were good aspects to his play but he wouldn't have got a game if doige and youan were fit, so don't panic!

I also think Monty is genuine that he won't dish out favours, so if he's not seen as good enough he'll not keep his place.

From his perspective imagine going into your work knowing that a large amount of people had questioned your ability and wanted you out for the last year? Must have been tough for him so let's give him time. Fortunately most of the crowd were kind to him.

I think theres a player in there aswell needs a regular run. He will come good then hopefully some will see just how good he really is

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

It does strike me that Rocky and Jair are given a hard time. Almost like folks are waiting to pounce. Sincerely hope that there’s no joining the dots and some prejudices have been at work.

Come on now, let’s no be daft eh. If that were the case then Marvin Bartley, Efe Ambrose, Kanayo Megwa, Elie Youan etc in recent years would have gotten/would get the same amount of a hard time surely? They get a hard time from some fans because they’ve not fulfilled their supposed potential. A lot of the hype around Tavares when he joined was stoked by the clubs media team, which looking back has definitely negatively impacted the fans opinion of him imo. Rocky is a different thing altogether, sometimes he looks a good defender but I do often wonder how he is/was supposedly considered a good prospect for the Belgian National Team. Just not consistent enough for me, but if he was he wouldn’t be at Hibs would he?


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[EVENTUALLY]

You know what I thought his appearance did was to get Youan at it from the moment he took his place. Competition for places instantly effective.

[bingo70]

I think it’s quite funny that one of the things that was appealing about the new manager was his ability to get the best out of players who weren’t fulfilling their potential and fallen off the rails a bit yet when we get someone who fits that criteria exactly, some want that player binned because he’s not turned it around within an hour of football after being out for a year.

I get this is the place for opinions but the people writing him off need to chill out and trust the manager.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Well, if anything got proved yesterday its that NM is as good as his word, giving game time to a player that's practically been written off and a guy who probably had to tell his mum where he was going before leaving the house that morning :greengrin

As for Tavares. He wasn't shocking, but if he proved anything it's that he needs to work and work hard on his physicality on and off he ball and get the message that this isn't a league where you can dwell on it either. The country he has come from isn't really an excuse either, there's a pile of Portuguese players ripping it up in the English leagues who have no problem with their physical nature.

Whatever the case after yesterday the ball is now firmly in his court, he can't complain he isn't being given a chance. Given his lack of game time it would be unfair to expect him to just turn up and be the next Ronaldo, but IMO he has this season to prove he's got what it takes and if not he'll be binned ... when NM said after yesterday's game you won't be in this team unless you work very very hard it's my guess he meant off the pitch as well as on it ... over to you Jair :aok:

[Donegal Hibby]

its interesting that you didn't comment on the last bit of my post about his confidence and how it might have felt for him to play in front of fans like yourself who have decided he's not good enough. I was watching him pretty closely and what me and my mate noticed was how many good runs he made, how many good positions he got himself into. sure he could have done better at closing down at times and he lost a few tackles (so did Boyle btw) but it feels like he's got more to prove as a result of what's gone on in the last year, especially the way he was brought int o much fanfare and rumours of salary. I think you're being a bit selective to prove a point, but he did ok yesterday, as he also did ok for his cameo against kill the week before.

I trust this manager to get it right with Tavares. however to make a comparison with Whittaker isn't totally fair - they're very different players and I don't see Tavares blocking his development under Monty. McKay would appear to have been at the club long enough, with enough loans at a lower level to form some decent opinion about his career here, though I also trust Monty there too!

Maybe the guy is struggling with confidence and I don't know how it felt for him to play in front of fans who have decided he's not good enough though more reason for him to prove them wrong and yesterday he just didn't do enough for me . Apart from a couple of moments he was generally brushed off the ball , didn't close players down , didn't tackle and wasn't involved enough . As to me deciding he's not good enough I hope he does come good , I really
do though anytime I've watched him I haven't seen anything to suggest he will tbh .

Whittaker and Tavares might be different players though any player can show abit of effort and passion and the young lad did imo , he looked like he was wanting to impress and had a point to prove , I didn't see that same fire in Tavares. I didn't mean he would be blocking Whittaker's development but going by yesterday's performance by Jair maybe trying somebody like Rudi or one of our other young players we might see more like we did with Whittaker.

[Centre Hawf]

Possibly but still think the Benfica connection has helped him. I also think that’s poor management to play a player simply to put him in the shop window if he really doesn’t justify his place. That might suggest that his selection is coming from somewhere higher up the tree than Monty. Not sure if Monty would stand for that.

I don't think it needs massively over thought to be honest. My point wasn't that we're only playing him to get set up to get rid, it's more that it's beneficial from everyone's point of view from player to club for us to have a good proper look at him beyond the cameo's he had last season.

If we get to January and the lad has had say 10 or so decent length appearances worth and isn't getting better or showing anything for us to keep then we'll just try our best to shift him on. But him having played football this half of the season will objectively make it easier to do so than if he rotted away in the stands like he had been last season.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Some of the posts that people get banned for on here yet you can spout this race baiting, insensitive to actual racism & trouble making nonsense.

You clearly know nothing about me. Reaction to my post is revealing first time subject to a pile-on.
If we’re not prepared to examine things then we’re all blind are we really all Jock Tamson’s bairns. Scotland does have a problem if we’re blind to it we’re apart of the problem. I was asking us to reflect. If we can do that then we’re in a sad place. I stand by my comment and if that’s deemed worth of a suspension / ban I’ll abide by the rules. As a long term poster and folks that know me personally hopefully my post is taken in the spirit intended. Either way I’ll not be posting for a while.

[easty]

You clearly know nothing about me. Reaction to my post is revealing first time subject to a pile-on.
If we’re not prepared to examine things then we’re all blind are we really all Jock Tamson’s bairns. Scotland does have a problem if we’re blind to it we’re apart of the problem. I was asking us to reflect. If we can do that then we’re in a sad place. I stand by my comment and if that’s deemed worth of a suspension / ban I’ll abide by the rules. As a long term poster and folks that know me personally hopefully my post is taken in the spirit intended. Either way I’ll not be posting for a while.

https://youtu.be/w4i1yAOKUI4?si=nx1ZJ8tfVzfqyiuD

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Come on now, let’s no be daft eh. If that were the case then Marvin Bartley, Efe Ambrose, Kanayo Megwa, Elie Youan etc in recent years would have gotten/would get the same amount of a hard time surely? They get a hard time from some fans because they’ve not fulfilled their supposed potential. A lot of the hype around Tavares when he joined was stoked by the clubs media team, which looking back has definitely negatively impacted the fans opinion of him imo. Rocky is a different thing altogether, sometimes he looks a good defender but I do often wonder how he is/was supposedly considered a good prospect for the Belgian National Team. Just not consistent enough for me, but if he was he wouldn’t be at Hibs would he?


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Thabks - I appreciated your measured response to the point in was raising. And I think there is a. element of that.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Think it says more about you that race even crossed your mind. Weird post.

I refer you to my post below. Boa noite

[Viva_Palmeiras]

https://youtu.be/w4i1yAOKUI4?si=nx1ZJ8tfVzfqyiuD

that’s not my point and not my style. But thanks.

[the_ginger_hibee]

You clearly know nothing about me. Reaction to my post is revealing first time subject to a pile-on.
If we’re not prepared to examine things then we’re all blind are we really all Jock Tamson’s bairns. Scotland does have a problem if we’re blind to it we’re apart of the problem. I was asking us to reflect. If we can do that then we’re in a sad place. I stand by my comment and if that’s deemed worth of a suspension / ban I’ll abide by the rules. As a long term poster and folks that know me personally hopefully my post is taken in the spirit intended. Either way I’ll not be posting for a while.

Glad to hear it.

You call / insinuate that people you don't know, fellow Hibs fans on .net, are racist for discussing players performance & then you play the 'pile-on' card. Too much internet for you I think, try Twitter.

[Wilson]

You clearly know nothing about me. Reaction to my post is revealing first time subject to a pile-on.
If we’re not prepared to examine things then we’re all blind are we really all Jock Tamson’s bairns. Scotland does have a problem if we’re blind to it we’re apart of the problem. I was asking us to reflect. If we can do that then we’re in a sad place. I stand by my comment and if that’s deemed worth of a suspension / ban I’ll abide by the rules. As a long term poster and folks that know me personally hopefully my post is taken in the spirit intended. Either way I’ll not be posting for a while.

Keep posting. You posed a question, and many disagree, but it doesn't make it wrong to ask.

Nobody here wants an echo chamber where we all think the same, post the same, and like the same.

On this subject I think hibs fans just like players whose talents are obvious, who affect games right away. The slow progression isn't for us. We want to be challenging and you're here to help us. If you aren't ready we can't wait.

From the perspective of getting value from our investments though the club, rightly, takes a longer term view.

[tamh]

Am still convinced that the only reason why he has suddenly been getting a game is the strong Benfica link in our management team.
Defo:agree::agree:

[truehibernian]

Remember speaking to Russell Latapy years ago and him saying Scottish football was a completely different style of football he’d ever been used to. Space closed down quickly, not the time on the ball he was used to, and far more physical. It took him time to fully adjust (and boy did he do that). And he was older and more experienced than Jair.

For me it’s about perspective- a very very young boy who hasn’t played much top level football comes to a very different country and culture, with quite a few barriers to overcome. Treated badly by a very poor man manager and his confidence was shot. He’s now been given a chance, clearly by a manager who sees ability, and he’s come into the side last two games and that can only be good for his confidence and also get to know the style of football this league offers.

Good on the lad for persevering and I hope he continues to flourish.

[Hibbyradge]

I think it’s quite funny that one of the things that was appealing about the new manager was his ability to get the best out of players who weren’t fulfilling their potential and fallen off the rails a bit yet when we get someone who fits that criteria exactly, some want that player binned because he’s not turned it around within an hour of football after being out for a year.

I get this is the place for opinions but the people writing him off need to chill out and trust the manager.

Have there been many that they want him binned?

I've seen plenty saying he wasn't very good yesterday but also hoping he comes good.

[bingo70]

Have there been many that they want him binned?

I've seen plenty saying he wasn't very good yesterday but also hoping he comes good.

I’m not going to go reading through the thread again but there were certainly people saying he isn’t good enough for us, which isn’t the same as saying he played badly yesterday.

[Hibbyradge]

I’m not going to go reading through the thread again but there were certainly people saying he isn’t good enough for us, which isn’t the same as saying he played badly yesterday.

I find myself experiencing amusement and frustration in equal measure when I see people jump to definite conclusions after a player has one bad game, so I'm sure you're right.

[Unseen work]

Just getting round to watching the game now, did Tavares play on the right the entire time he was on?

To me he is far more suited to the left and cutting in

[richard_pitts]

It does strike me that Rocky and Jair are given a hard time. Almost like folks are waiting to pounce. Sincerely hope that there’s no joining the dots and some prejudices have been at work.

Russell Latapy is rightly a legend in these here parts.

[BoomtownHibees]

Just getting round to watching the game now, did Tavares play on the right the entire time he was on?

To me he is far more suited to the left and cutting in

Him and Boyle switched a few times throughout the time he was on.

On your 2nd point, what have you seen of him to form that opinion?

[patlowe]

Only thing that’s ridiculous are people thinking he played well today, baffling. Drifted about most of the first half out of position, not showing as an option for Miller when in possession, looks lightweight and too easily brushed off the ball.

Should’ve been hooked at half time. NM clearly hoped he’d improve start of second half, but didn’t and he was subsequently replaced by Youan who was noticeably an instant improvement.

This. Floated around, never really offered, no intensity in his defensive work. Basically a man down and I was concerned it was going to cost us before he was subbed. The only mitigation is the lack of game time and perhaps nerves or lack of confidence. But I just don't think he's going to make it with us and I wouldn't personally gamble with playing him anymore.

[Keepthefaith]

This. Floated around, never really offered, no intensity in his defensive work. Basically a man down and I was concerned it was going to cost us before he was subbed. The only mitigation is the lack of game time and perhaps nerves or lack of confidence. But I just don't think he's going to make it with us and I wouldn't personally gamble with playing him anymore.

But he didn't float around, imo I think you're being really unfair on him. A number of times he made great runs but wasn't found and he had a decent attempt on goal. he got himself space too and I do think he tried to close down. Sure he got knocked off the ball too easily, I'd agree that's an area he needs to improve on for sure.

But to criticise him in the way you have for me sees that you were selectively seeing what you wanted

[patlowe]

But he didn't float around, imo I think you're being really unfair on him. A number of times he made great runs but wasn't found and he had a decent attempt on goal. he got himself space too and I do think he tried to close down. Sure he got knocked off the ball too easily, I'd agree that's an area he needs to improve on for sure.

But to criticise him in the way you have for me sees that you were selectively seeing what you wanted

Honestly, I want the best of all Hibs players and have no reason to wish ill of Tavares. I understand folk sticking up for him - we all want our signings to be a success. But I don't think I'm being unfair to say he was lost out there yesterday and the fact he was subbed so early probably tells the story.

[EdinMike]

For someone who was shunned and hasn’t played in a year, he’s gonna be rusty. I’m in the camp of give him a few games, he’ll maybe need to get up to speed.

Anyway I support our management who see the players more often than we do.

[Wilson]

Honestly, I want the best of all Hibs players and have no reason to wish ill of Tavares. I understand folk sticking up for him - we all want our signings to be a success. But I don't think I'm being unfair to say he was lost out there yesterday and the fact he was subbed so early probably tells the story.

It doesn't tell any story. He got a start. The plan was probably to sub him in the second half. The when is up to Monty. Tavares played 59 minutes. Hanlon and Doidge got 9 each. Tell a story with that. Or don't because it'll just be more nonsense.

[Hibs1969]

My Tuppence worth. I reckon there’s a player in there but I thought yesterday we saw a lad short of confidence almost trying too hard to make things happen, trying too hard to make an impression on the game after being given a rare outing. He made a nice couple of runs, got himself into some decent positions and had a cracking shot on goal but physically he’s miles off it, he was brushed off the ball far too easily more than once but if he’s got any savvy about him, he’ll be in the gym bulking up and trying to sort that out.

He wasn’t brilliant by any measure but he was nowhere near as bad as some on here are making out. Another poster suggested keeping him involved till the end of the season then re-assessing and I think that’s a reasonable idea. Give him a few games to prove what he can or can’t do and take things from there.

[Greenio]

He was ok. Like people said, maybe trying a bit too hard, wanting rid off the ball to fast and thus played more of a risky ball to someone near him - instead of just taking it in, lifting his head and either finding a bit of space for himself (without trying to make some frenetic dash at speed) or picking out a smarter pass. But he worked pretty hard, was back defending a fair bit, made some decent runs - I reckon if Boyle had released the ball to him on one attack he would have had a decent chance to score. If you were on the fence about him, then you'd still prob be there. But this game and the confidence shown in him will serve him well to kick on from here

[patlowe]

It doesn't tell any story. He got a start. The plan was probably to sub him in the second half. The when is up to Monty. Tavares played 59 minutes. Hanlon and Doidge got 9 each. Tell a story with that. Or don't because it'll just be more nonsense.

It was 53 minutes - appreciate that's pedantic but if you're going to brandish someone's argument "nonsense" then here we are.

I have absolutely nothing against Tavares and I've acknowledged upfront there were potentially mitigating circumstances, but you just have to look at his stats for the time he was on the park. It's also notable to what extent our performance improved when he went off, though of course you can't attribute that entirely to one change.

Anyway, I don't want to go round in circles on this, I've given my view on a thread about a specific player, but ultimately Monty knows a hell of a lot better than me and I'll trust him to make the right calls on this and the rest of the squad.

[MWHIBBIES]

One of the worst performances I’ve seen in a hibs jersey, was clueless. Nowhere near ready to play for hibs, we improved massively when Youan came on. The young lad also looked miles better in the time he had on too. Should never play again

First game ?

[BILLYHIBS]

It was 53 minutes - appreciate that's pedantic but if you're going to brandish someone's argument "nonsense" then here we are.

I have absolutely nothing against Tavares and I've acknowledged upfront there were potentially mitigating circumstances, but you just have to look at his stats for the time he was on the park. It's also notable to what extent our performance improved when he went off, though of course you can't attribute that entirely to one change.

Anyway, I don't want to go round in circles on this, I've given my view on a thread about a specific player, but ultimately Monty knows a hell of a lot better than me and I'll trust him to make the right calls on this and the rest of the squad.

100% agree

The boy did ok nothing great

Jury still out

Will trust Monty and his team to make the correct call on this one

Hopefully he benefits from the experience and kicks on

Would not be starting him against Hearts at Tiny just yet 😀

[Unseen work]

Him and Boyle switched a few times throughout the time he was on.

On your 2nd point, what have you seen of him to form that opinion?

Every time I’ve seen him I always think he wants to cut in to beat a man and never really attempts to just beat them down the line, out on the right he kept drifting infield again.

Plus I think about 90% of game times he’s had for us he’s been out on the left

[Unseen work]

He was ok. Like people said, maybe trying a bit too hard, wanting rid off the ball to fast and thus played more of a risky ball to someone near him - instead of just taking it in, lifting his head and either finding a bit of space for himself (without trying to make some frenetic dash at speed) or picking out a smarter pass. But he worked pretty hard, was back defending a fair bit, made some decent runs - I reckon if Boyle had released the ball to him on one attack he would have had a decent chance to score. If you were on the fence about him, then you'd still prob be there. But this game and the confidence shown in him will serve him well to kick on from here

From watching it back I just thought he seemed really nervous, he was doing things/making mistakes that is down to nerves more than actual ability imo.

I saw ALF being quite animated towards him at the start of the game, it appeared he wanted Tavares to go and demand to get the ball more/with more intensity

Also trying to hard by trying to receive and turn on it in the one motion instead of the classic feeling your way into a game - this resulted in the opposition reading his movement and brushing him off the ball easily.

He had a couple of not bad moments, but I think that’s because we’re really looking for it - if Boyle or Youan had done it I doubt we’d have even noticed as it’s so common.

But he would have played more on Saturday than he did the previous 12 months combined for the first team.

Hopefully he builds on Saturday, grows in confidence and we see what he’s actually capable of.

[Jones28]

For a new manager to bring in someone who was frozen out under the last regime - despite the back-patting and fanfare when he was brought in - to throw him in to the starting 11 2 games in says a lot about his character and ability imo.

No doubt he will be rusty and not match fit but I already have faith in the new team to make an honest assessment, and it looks like they’re already impressed with his ability.

[GRA]

A few months ago I referred to him as a 'human victory cigar' as thought he was nowhere near good enough. Still haven't seen anything in the last couple of games to make me change my mind but, given Monty has given him two appearances in his last two games, he clearly must be doing something right in training.

At the moment he doesn't appear to replicate it on the big stage so unsure if just a case of confidence or he's just not got the mentality to make it? He's still young but football is a cruel cut-throat business, shape up or shift out.

[Forza Fred]

Every time I see him on the field I WANT him to do well, but I honestly can’t say he has made a significant contribution in any games I have seen him.

Hopefully he will make me eat my words, but he seems to shuffle rather than run, knocks the ball a foot away when taking delivery and is dispossessed whereupon he falls down…..I am not sure in Saturday’s game that contact was made with him every time he went down.
Obviously our new coaching staff see something at training that I don’t see when he’s on the park.

I would love to see him going on a mazy run and planting the ball in the back of the net, but I can’t see him being a regular starter, or at least I hope he is not, unless he improves.

[greenlex]

Judging by the monty cam footage available on the YouTube channel it looks like both Jair and Youan getting extra coaching during the game. Great to see. Can’t say I’ve noticed during the last guys reign any if that going on.

[blackpoolhibs]

Every time I see him on the field I WANT him to do well, but I honestly can’t say he has made a significant contribution in any games I have seen him.

Hopefully he will make me eat my words, but he seems to shuffle rather than run, knocks the ball a foot away when taking delivery and is dispossessed whereupon he falls down…..I am not sure in Saturday’s game that contact was made with him every time he went down.
Obviously our new coaching staff see something at training that I don’t see when he’s on the park.

I would love to see him going on a mazy run and planting the ball in the back of the net, but I can’t see him being a regular starter, or at least I hope he is not, unless he improves.

Saved me the bother. :top marks

[easty]

Useless. Honestly, the guy offers us nothing.

Won a freekick, after he’d already run the ball out for a goal kick. That’s all he offered.

A million miles away from being good enough.

[sleeping giant]

I really really want him to do well but he just doesn't get involved.
Always seems to moving away from where the plays going.

[Allant1981]

Said on the match thread, he offered nothing, he just looked like a lost wee laddie when he came on, I'm all for players getting a clean slate but he is so far away from the level required

[Northernhibee]

If Lewis Miller got his head up, he’d have had a tap in.

Posts above confuse me a bit.

[truehibernian]

Said on the match thread, he offered nothing, he just looked like a lost wee laddie when he came on, I'm all for players getting a clean slate but he is so far away from the level required

I thought the same about young Josh but he came good after some perseverances and hard work (and support). Monty trusts him and believes in him, that’s good enough for me - maybe all it’ll take is an assist, a goal, great half hour. The manager has a track record for getting the best out of players, I’ll wait until end of season before properly judging young Jair.

[Allant1981]

I thought the same about young Josh but he came good after some perseverances and hard work (and support). Monty trusts him and believes in him, that’s good enough for me - maybe all it’ll take is an assist, a goal, great half hour. The manager has a track record for getting the best out of players, I’ll wait until end of season before properly judging young Jair.

Quite possibly and the guys on the park will always get my backing but he just doesn't make us any better when he plays, hopefully he gets a bit better

[JohnM1875]

What are people honestly expecting from the boy? He was completely frozen out under Johnson, apparently treated appallingly. Do folk genuinely expect him to suddenly turn into Messi and win games for us? It'll take time and effort building him up.

He was fine today when he came on. No worse or better than any other sub. But he's the one getting pelters. Mental.

[The Captain....]

I just don't see how he contributes tbh..he doesn't seem to be able to go past players, isn't particularly quick, doesn't play incisive passes and doesn't really threaten to score or assist. He just makes up the numbers.



Sent from my SM-S906B using Tapatalk

[Cat Stanton]

What are people honestly expecting from the boy? He was completely frozen out under Johnson, apparently treated appallingly. Do folk genuinely expect him to suddenly turn into Messi and win games for us? It'll take time and effort building him up.

He was fine today when he came on. No worse or better than any other sub. But he's the one getting pelters. Mental.

Think he's just a bit lightweight, to be honest.

[truehibernian]

Think he's just a bit lightweight, to be honest.

Which can easily be worked on at HTC by the fitness team. I agree, but he’s not had a look in and was basically shunned by LJ and has only this month been reintroduced to the fold. I say give it time. I’m not giving up on him yet 👍 one thing, and it’s a bug bear about many players in football, get that hair chopped !! Saying that I wish I had hair 😂

I really want the lad to do well, so I’m all for giving him the full season under Monty and hope he succeeds 👍

[eaststandstoner]

What are people honestly expecting from the boy? He was completely frozen out under Johnson, apparently treated appallingly. Do folk genuinely expect him to suddenly turn into Messi and win games for us? It'll take time and effort building him up.

He was fine today when he came on. No worse or better than any other sub. But he's the one getting pelters. Mental.

Can’t disagree mate, he gets the season to show what he’s got, be class if he changes peoples opinions.


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[Alfred E Newman]

What are people honestly expecting from the boy? He was completely frozen out under Johnson, apparently treated appallingly. Do folk genuinely expect him to suddenly turn into Messi and win games for us? It'll take time and effort building him up.

He was fine today when he came on. No worse or better than any other sub. But he's the one getting pelters. Mental.

Well said.

[Cat Stanton]

Which can easily be worked on at HTC by the fitness team. I agree, but he’s not had a look in and was basically shunned by LJ and has only this month been reintroduced to the fold. I say give it time. I’m not giving up on him yet 👍 one thing, and it’s a bug bear about many players in football, get that hair chopped !! Saying that I wish I had hair 😂

I really want the lad to do well, so I’m all for giving him the full season under Monty and hope he succeeds 👍

Yeah, likewise - his treatment has been shocking, and it would be great if he turns out to be a terrific player for Hibs. But right now - in his current condition - I don't think he offers much. If that changes in the future, then all the better.

[J-C]

Nothing against him but he looks very lightweight for this league, so easily pushed off the ball and didn't seem to want to get stuck in when needed. Maybe a case of decent player in the wrong league.

[ChuckNor]

Not been a fan of Jair since signed but now anyone can pinpoint him as an issue today is mental. He done nothing wrong. Won a good foul, made some nice passes. Should’ve been played in by Miller for a tap in. Can’t think of any mistakes. Probably the first time I felt he looked like he can compete at this level.

The posts here are off the head crazy. Criticize when warranted.

[easty]

What are people honestly expecting from the boy? He was completely frozen out under Johnson, apparently treated appallingly. Do folk genuinely expect him to suddenly turn into Messi and win games for us? It'll take time and effort building him up.

He was fine today when he came on. No worse or better than any other sub. But he's the one getting pelters. Mental.

Is there not a space in between being Messi and contributing nothing, that he could try to fill?

He’s brought on as an attacking midfielder/winger and did nowt. Literally nowt.

How long he’s been out is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. You dinnae get a free ride.

If Boyle or Youan had come off the bench and for involved so little they’d be slated, and rightly so.

[JohnM1875]

Is there not a space in between being Messi and contributing nothing, that he could try to fill?

He’s brought on as an attacking midfielder/winger and did nowt. Literally nowt.

How long he’s been out is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned. You dinnae get a free ride.

If Boyle or Youan had come off the bench and for involved so little they’d be slated, and rightly so.

The fact you've said he did 'literally nowt' means there's probably no point in continuing.

If you think the length of time without any meaningful first team involvement is irrelevant than I don't really know what to say.

[Donegal Hibby]

What are people honestly expecting from the boy? He was completely frozen out under Johnson, apparently treated appallingly. Do folk genuinely expect him to suddenly turn into Messi and win games for us? It'll take time and effort building him up.

He was fine today when he came on. No worse or better than any other sub. But he's the one getting pelters. Mental.

I think the reason he was completely frozen out is he just hasn't shown enough. In his start against St Johnstone he contributed very little imo , he didn't close players down , looked frightened to tackle and basically strolled around. Apart from a couple of moments it was like playing with ten men with him on .

Today again when he came on with nearly 20 minutes to go I don't really remember him doing anything other than winning a corner. We can't be carrying any passengers in our side and need our players contributing to the team and Jair hasn't done that .

I'd really love to see Jair make it at us and haven't any high expectations of the young guy other than I'd like to have seen a spark , abit of flair or anything at all to suggest that there's a player there that could make it at us though unfortunately I seen nothing to suggest there is so far.

[easty]

The fact you've said he did 'literally nowt' means there's probably no point in continuing.

If you think the length of time without any meaningful first team involvement is irrelevant than I don't really know what to say.

What did he do that I’m missing?

[A Hi-Bee]

I was at the game today, I seen a young guy come on as a sub, he done alright, was not expecting him to win the game for us, perhaps that will happen in time, but rather than listen to some of the experts on here I will listen to the manager. If he thinks the guy can play then that is good enough for me.
It was an interesting game and on another day we win by 3 or 4.
Things will take time but I see signs of something good happening.
GGTTH

[easty]

I was at the game today, I seen a young guy come on as a sub, he done alright, was not expecting him to win the game for us, perhaps that will happen in time, but rather than listen to some of the experts on here I will listen to the manager. If he thinks the guy can play then that is good enough for me.
It was an interesting game and on another day we win by 3 or 4.
Things will take time but I see signs of something good happening.
GGTTH

“The experts on here” chat is brutal patter.

[StockholmHibs]

He's a lightweight and does nothing. A total passenger!
Give the boy a chance if you want but I've seen enough.
However I'm happy to be wrong 🙂

[A Hi-Bee]

“The experts on here” chat is brutal patter.

Is it, why no go back over the thread covering the St Mirren game then come back to me.
:greengrin

[St.Kristopher]

What did he do that I’m missing?

From memory won a corner. Won a free kick in line with the 6 yard line. Was in a position to score a tap-in if Miller had released the ball.

The lad did fine today. For now, he is a useful squad player, but I think/hope he will be more than that soon enough.

[Pretty Boy]

I've got no real comment on his performance today. Boyle had a bit of a stinker and Youan was very frustrating as well so I don't think it was an easy game to shine in.

More generally though what is Jair supposed to excel at? We apparently tracked him for some time so what particular attribute attracted us? With Boyle it's his pace, Youan it's his trickery and unpredictability, Vente it's how clinical he is. I just don't see what Jair is really good at. He's not strong and powerful, he doesn't look notably quick, he doesn't seem really tricky.

I'm not giving up on him yet as he's still only played less than 2 hours of football all season. I just don't see what it is he is going to bring to the table even when he gets up to speed though.

[St.Kristopher]

He's a lightweight and does nothing. A total passenger!
Give the boy a chance if you want, but I've seen enough.
However I'm happy to be wrong 🙂

He was physically challenged by two Dundee hammer throwers and came away with the ball. Miller went down for much less. Boyle is also lightweight.

You are correct though he has done nothing yet of significance, but he has hardly had a chance to show anything yet.

Montgomery seems like a proper hard *******, but he also seems like he would give a good cuddle. I think in time we will see the best out of who we have. All the players deserve a new start after what came before.

Bring back Bojang 😜

[JohnM1875]

What did he do that I’m missing?

Probably the same way there's a space between being Messi and offering nothing at all there's a space between what Tavares actually offered today and literally nowt.

He was fine. Wasn't great and wasn't anywhere near as bad as is being made out.

[A Hi-Bee]

I've got no real comment on his performance today. Boyle had a bit of a stinker and Youan was very frustrating as well so I don't think it was an easy game to shine in.

More generally though what is Jair supposed to excel at? We apparently tracked him for some time so what particular attribute attracted us? With Boyle it's his pace, Youan it's his trickery and unpredictability, Vente it's how clinical he is. I just don't see what Jair is really good at. He's not strong and powerful, he doesn't look notably quick, he doesn't seem really tricky.

I'm not giving up on him yet as he's still only played less than 2 hours of football all season. I just don't see what it is he is going to bring to the table even when he gets up to speed though.

I just like to think it is a squad game now, and he with luck and good people around him will start to show us what prompted the signing in the first place. Sure that Monty and his crew will get him going even if in the end that is not good enogh for Hibs, time will tell. Happy to let the manager get on wi things for now.

[Hibee Mac]

I have to admit I think it's a bit of a mistake to try and will him into something he's not. He's done very little in his time here to justify any game time and it's hard to believe he's showing up in training either.

We've got guys on the bench like Levitt who we've paid a fee for, he's already proven he can change a game in this league, but we brought on Tavares in the hope that he can turn his fortunes around.



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[Brightside]

Get him out on loan in Jan. in the meantime Rudi should have his spot.

[Nicho87]

Too lightweight for me

[Lago]

:top marks
I was at the game today, I seen a young guy come on as a sub, he done alright, was not expecting him to win the game for us, perhaps that will happen in time, but rather than listen to some of the experts on here I will listen to the manager. If he thinks the guy can play then that is good enough for me.
It was an interesting game and on another day we win by 3 or 4.
Things will take time but I see signs of something good happening.
GGTTH

[easty]

Probably the same way there's a space between being Messi and offering nothing at all there's a space between what Tavares actually offered today and literally nowt.

He was fine. Wasn't great and wasn't anywhere near as bad as is being made out.

Couldn’t disagree more.

He offers even less than Euan Henderson, and he was rightly shipped out on loan.

[The Modfather]

I think Montgomery is persisting with him out of necessity more than choice. What is the alternative when Youan needs rested/dropped? Playing both our left backs at the same time? Think we’ll have to carry him until January and hope he needs carried less and less each week. Loan him out in January and either promote a youngster or get cover in on loan.

I think we’re into Drey Wright territory with Tavares where we’re talking up doing the basics.

As an aside, is Whittaker now the only cover for Boyle?

[hibbytam]

Dunno, the lad has a decent turn of pace. If used correctly that alone could see him do well in our league.

[B.H.F.C]

He’s about the squad because we have a lack of options in that position IMO.

A wide player will be one of the first signings, if not the first, Montgomery makes in January.

[hibbytam]

Dunno, the lad has a decent turn of pace. If used correctly that alone could see him do well in our league. Definitely could offer something.
Or I just want him to succeed because he has cool hair

[Carheenlea]

https://i.postimg.cc/mrY7mnFw/IMG-0864.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[ToulouseHibs]

Clearly has skill, clearly missing confidence, clearly is very lightweight and gets pushed off the ball often. Is his potential worth the investment to drop him into the first team? What’s the best way to develop his confidence otherwise? Can he improve on his on ball strength? All I know is that NM and his team have a better idea than probably most people on here. Safe hands!!

[Donegal Hibby]

I can't say I've seen anything promising from him in the 50 minutes or so in the match he started against St Johnstone and today was much the same . Didn't make any sort of impact in the games at all . Has been poor imo .

[Centre Hawf]

Sold the boy a stepover and worked space for a good cross but was fouled instead on the one occasion he got the ball. Done well when he had it.

[BoomtownHibees]

Sold the boy a stepover and worked space for a good cross but was fouled instead on the one occasion he got the ball. Done well when he had it.

Think he had played the ball out the park and got lucky with the guy fouling him

[CL0762]

Some of the comments in here are absolutely mental.

Let’s just summarise;

Young lad, who’s English isn’t his first language, is heralded as one of the best young players we could’ve signed under a new regime

Is given #10 which is a number very fondly looked upon by our support

Starts against St Johnstone & Livingston, then is almost completely bombed out the squad

Returns for a few games on the bench, and is then never to be seen again

Squad goes abroad for pre season and is left back in Edinburgh

Barely even gets a mention for the dev squad.

New manager comes in, and gives the laddie a chance with 2 sub appearances & a start against one of the bogiest of bogie teams for us.

Hasn’t had anywhere near a stinker in the minutes played so far, which in his own estimation he probably would never have expected.

Give the laddie a ****ing break, you’re lucky if in over a year he’s played enough minutes combined to total even 10 games.

If by the end of the season his contribution is still null then by all means criticise but the way he was treated previously was nothing short of a disgrace and the laddie deserves all the support he can get to try and regain whatever confidence he had when he walked through the door last summer.

[JammyDoidger]

Some of the comments in here are absolutely mental.

Let’s just summarise;

Young lad, who’s English isn’t his first language, is heralded as one of the best young players we could’ve signed under a new regime

Is given #10 which is a number very fondly looked upon by our support

Starts against St Johnstone & Livingston, then is almost completely bombed out the squad

Returns for a few games on the bench, and is then never to be seen again

Squad goes abroad for pre season and is left back in Edinburgh

Barely even gets a mention for the dev squad.

New manager comes in, and gives the laddie a chance with 2 sub appearances & a start against one of the bogiest of bogie teams for us.

Hasn’t had anywhere near a stinker in the minutes played so far, which in his own estimation he probably would never have expected.

Give the laddie a ****ing break, you’re lucky if in over a year he’s played enough minutes combined to total even 10 games.

If by the end of the season his contribution is still null then by all means criticise but the way he was treated previously was nothing short of a disgrace and the laddie deserves all the support he can get to try and regain whatever confidence he had when he walked through the door last summer.

What you making excuses for him for? If he's good enough, then show it? Hee had the opportunity now, mollycoddling at its best.

[Rumble de Thump]

What you making excuses for him for? If he's good enough, then show it? Hee had the opportunity now, mollycoddling at its best.

Acknowledging what has happened is very different from making excuses. It's just not being ignorant. If the head coach considers him to the one of the best players we have available in a position he can play in then he will get some game time. The transfer window closed a while ago so we have to do what we can with the squad of players we have available.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Nothing instills confidence a player like your own fans loathing you. Folk seem to be desperate for him to fail forgetting that he was very much obsolete under the previous management team.

I think the only thing that can save tavares is the return of mckirdy

[JimBHibees]

What you making excuses for him for? If he's good enough, then show it? Hee had the opportunity now, mollycoddling at its best.

He was fine when he came on yesterday.

[easty]

Nothing instills confidence a player like your own fans loathing you. Folk seem to be desperate for him to fail forgetting that he was very much obsolete under the previous management team.

I think the only thing that can save tavares is the return of mckirdy

Dramatic much? Nobody booed the sub, nobody booed him, I heard nothing negative shouted about him around me.

I can’t speak for everyone who thinks he’s hopeless, but I know I support him 100% when he’s on the pitch for Hibs. Just like every other player.

I’d have a fit McKirdy playing ahead of him every single time though, no doubt about it.

[BILLYHIBS]

Dramatic much? Nobody booed the sub, nobody booed him, I heard nothing negative shouted about him around me.

I can’t speak for everyone who thinks he’s hopeless, but I know I support him 100% when he’s on the pitch for Hibs. Just like every other player.

I’d have a fit McKirdy playing ahead of him every single time though, no doubt about it.

Never heard any boos in the West Lower for the boy in fact got a round of applause when he won the free kick

Wonder what NM will make of McKirdy ?

Maybes he can work his Jase magic on him ?

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Dramatic much? Nobody booed the sub, nobody booed him, I heard nothing negative shouted about him around me.

I can’t speak for everyone who thinks he’s hopeless, but I know I support him 100% when he’s on the pitch for Hibs. Just like every other player.

I’d have a fit McKirdy playing ahead of him every single time though, no doubt about it.

Dramatic, maybe. I occasionally sashay as well but only on special occasions.

My point is, rather than letting the guy get back involved in getting his fitness up, being back in first team circles and getting game time, we have some fans that need a bogeyman.

We also have fans that are right miserable *******s. St Johnstone game last week, the guy beside me never clapped when the team came out, never cheered when we scored, moaned a lot about any ball being played, calling most folk on the park a ****.

[Allant1981]

Dramatic, maybe. I occasionally sashay as well but only on special occasions.

My point is, rather than letting the guy get back involved in getting his fitness up, being back in first team circles and getting game time, we have some fans that need a bogeyman.

We also have fans that are right miserable *******s. St Johnstone game last week, the guy beside me never clapped when the team came out, never cheered when we scored, moaned a lot about any ball being played, calling most folk on the park a ****.

It's not really a bogeyman though is it, it's living in the real world and saying he just doesn't look very good, people are still allowed to form opinions on players these days, he may well come good and be an important player for the club but he looks no where near like a player who can improve us, yes he hasn't played much and fitness levels/match sharpness will be no where near where he would want but he still doesn't look very god

[Bobby's Cinema]

I'm all for the manager giving everyone a clean slate and giving everyone a chance.

We should be treating him as if he's a new signing. If it doesn't work out with NM then it's time to move on. As others have said we don't have many options in that area if it's not working with Elie/ Boyle. He has to work with what he's got.

It's not been convincing at all but I think we have a better chance bringing a guy on that has the confidence from the manager and has been in and around the squad, rather than bringing him in from the cold and shoving him on to take the heat and asking him to do something.

[JimBHibees]

Dramatic, maybe. I occasionally sashay as well but only on special occasions.

My point is, rather than letting the guy get back involved in getting his fitness up, being back in first team circles and getting game time, we have some fans that need a bogeyman.

We also have fans that are right miserable *******s. St Johnstone game last week, the guy beside me never clapped when the team came out, never cheered when we scored, moaned a lot about any ball being played, calling most folk on the park a ****.

Think I would be moving :greengrin

[500miles]

Tavares was fine when he came on. A bit light weight, but also beat his man and got the ball into the box during his limited cameo.

[GreenPJ]

I don't think any Hibs fan wants him to fail but answer this question - do you want him starting or on the bench against Hearts? For me he is not involved nearly enough in the game and is too light weight.

I am not writing him off but I don't think he is ready for the first team and certainly not in the bigger games. The young lad Whittaker has shown more, playing out of position, than Tavares has so he should be our wide midfielder option if Boyle/Youan aren't performing. He also provides better cover for Miller in my view than Youan or Boyle.

I am fine to keep Tavares and if we could get him out on loan to a football playing team I would like to see how he came back, but to me I would not be risking him in the bigger games in the league just now or really expect him to do something to help us get a draw/max points against lower teams in the league.

[JammyDoidger]

He was fine when he came on yesterday.

Fine isn't good enough. He never impacted the game which is what you want your subs to do. He was brought in on a decent wage, given the number 10 shirt, and has offered nowt. Doesn't work hard enough for me, he's bigger than likes of Boyle but doesn't get stuck in the way Boyle does for example.

[w pilton hibby]

Fine isn't good enough. He never impacted the game which is what you want your subs to do. He was brought in on a decent wage, given the number 10 shirt, and has offered nowt. Doesn't work hard enough for me, he's bigger than likes of Boyle but doesn't get stuck in the way Boyle does for example.

How much is he getting paid?

[Since452]

He looks like he's running in sand sometimes.

[blackpoolhibs]

Does anyone want to see him in the first 11, or even see him come on as a sub, I don't he seriously weakens us in both options.

[Alfred E Newman]

He looks like he's running in sand sometimes.

This place is nuts at times.

[Mick O'Rourke]

He was fine when he came on yesterday.

Yes indeed .
Monty will know best of course on how players do in training sessions and his getting to know players strengths, etc
Jair would not be in the 1st team squad/on the bench,otherwise.
Monty, or someone on his staff will be casting an eye of those LJ sent out on loan.
I look forward to, from first impressions,Monty and his crew putting a real stamp on this squad.
I have high hopes on evidence so far and what regulars (well some !) who attend all games have been commenting on here.

[Malonga's Cat]

The whole situation has been very bizarre. #10 shirt, reported big wage but seemed out of his depth on the pitch. Then he struggles to get a game for the development team and disappears. I trust in the new manager if he's picking him and to be fair, he's still shown more in the last few weeks (although not much) than we seen under LJ.

[hibbydog]

Some of the comments in here are absolutely mental.

Let’s just summarise;

Young lad, who’s English isn’t his first language, is heralded as one of the best young players we could’ve signed under a new regime

Is given #10 which is a number very fondly looked upon by our support

Starts against St Johnstone & Livingston, then is almost completely bombed out the squad

Returns for a few games on the bench, and is then never to be seen again

Squad goes abroad for pre season and is left back in Edinburgh

Barely even gets a mention for the dev squad.

New manager comes in, and gives the laddie a chance with 2 sub appearances & a start against one of the bogiest of bogie teams for us.

Hasn’t had anywhere near a stinker in the minutes played so far, which in his own estimation he probably would never have expected.

Give the laddie a ****ing break, you’re lucky if in over a year he’s played enough minutes combined to total even 10 games.

If by the end of the season his contribution is still null then by all means criticise but the way he was treated previously was nothing short of a disgrace and the laddie deserves all the support he can get to try and regain whatever confidence he had when he walked through the door last summer.

An outbreak of common sense!!

Whatever your opinion of the players ability, anyone wearing a Hibs strip gets my full support .

[basehibby]

I just don't see how he contributes tbh..he doesn't seem to be able to go past players, isn't particularly quick, doesn't play incisive passes and doesn't really threaten to score or assist. He just makes up the numbers.



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Not so sure about the bit in bold - there was one passage on Sat when he showed a real burst of explosive pace to get by the fullback. Maybe needs to show more of it though as I agree he struggles to get meaningfully involved in games. It may come yet though - see Christian Doidge and Joe Newell for two examples of players that took time to settle before becoming very useful players at Hibs.