Top Ten Hibs Managers

[Since452]

Interesting article on managers with the best win percentage.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-managers-the-10-hibernian-managers-with-the-best-win-percentages-in-the-history-of-the-edinburgh-club-4334559?page=3

[nonshinyfinish]

A pretty stark demonstration of why quoting win percentages without context is a bad way to rank managers.

[heretoday]

Jock Stein was the best no question. Unfortunately, he ditched us at a vital time. We've underachieved ever since.

[Bostonhibby]

A pretty stark demonstration of why quoting win percentages without context is a bad way to rank managers.Eddie Turnbull's early 70's was the best football I've ever seen us play. You turned up expecting a good result and plenty goals and definitely were entertained by some great football.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[BILLYHIBS]

Eddie Turnbull's early 70's was the best football I've ever seen us play. You turned up expecting a good result and plenty goals and definitely were entertained by some great football.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

It wasn’t will Hibs win it was by how many ?

We had a system a green attacking machine if a move broke down it was rinse repeat rinse repeat like watching a game of footballing chess

Eddie Turnbull wasn’t afraid to make changes or drop a player

He had his reasons 😀

The only time I have experienced the same anticipation and expectation watching Hibs was the second half of Neil Lennon’s first season in the Premiership

Anyways :

1 Hugh Shaw

2 Eddie Turnbull

3 Jock Stein

4 Bob Shankly

5 Willie MacFarlane

6 Tony Mowbray

7 Dan McMichael

8 Alan Stubbs

9 Alex McLeish

10 Willie McCartney

[Bostonhibby]

It wasn’t will Hibs win it was by how many ?

We had a system a green attacking machine if a move broke down it was rinse repeat rinse repeat like watching a game of footballing chess

Eddie Turnbull wasn’t afraid to make changes or drop a player

He had his reasons [emoji3]

The only time I have experienced the same anticipation and expectation watching Hibs was the second half of Neil Lennon’s first season in the Premiership

Anyways :

1 Hugh Shaw

2 Jock Stein

3 Eddie Turnbull

4 Bob Shankly

5 Willie MacFarlane

6 Tony Mowbray

Not a lot to disagree with there[emoji106]

Older members of my Hibs family would agree with you on Shaw & MacFarlane for sure.

I'll always pick Turnbull because of the all too brief Tornadoes era.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Since452]

Jock Stein's record looked pretty remarkable in his short time at Hibs. Maybe one for the older posters on here but what kind of Hibs team did he inherit? Suppose there would have been a natural fall off from the 50's team for a while but with some pretty impressive European results here and there. Was there an immediate improvement under Stein? Makes you wonder what could have been if he's stayed a few years.

[nonshinyfinish]

Jock Stein's record looked pretty remarkable in his short time at Hibs. Maybe one for the older posters on here but what kind of Hibs team did he inherit? Suppose there would have been a natural fall off from the 50's team for a while but with some pretty impressive European results here and there. Was there an immediate improvement under Stein? Makes you wonder what could have been if he's stayed a few years.

Can't answer your question, but I remember my dad telling me Pat Stanton was absolutely convinced that if Stein had stayed we'd have won the league within a couple of years.

[Brightside]

A pretty stark demonstration of why quoting win percentages without context is a bad way to rank managers.

The only issue with it is including lower divisions in the win percentage. Stubbs should drop out.

[nonshinyfinish]

The only issue with it is including lower divisions in the win percentage. Stubbs should drop out.

How about ranking a guy who managed 11 games above Hugh Shaw? I'd also argue that PPG is a better measure if you want to do this sort of thing, although of course that would require adjustment for the guys in the two-points-for-a-win era so it would be a bit more work than copying some numbers from Wikipedia and hitting publish.

[Kato]

Can't answer your question, but I remember my dad telling me Pat Stanton was absolutely convinced that if Stein had stayed we'd have won the league within a couple of years.

He left with us in with a chance for us to do a League and Scottish Cup double.

He was a great manager no doubt but I don't rate him all that great as a Hibs manager given he sloped off just as the season was getting to the business end.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

How about ranking a guy who managed 11 games above Hugh Shaw? I'd also argue that PPG is a better measure if you want to do this sort of thing, although of course that would require adjustment for the guys in the two-points-for-a-win era so it would be a bit more work than copying some numbers from Wikipedia and hitting publish.
Agreed, and even then it's an imperfect comparison because draws were more valuable i the time where it was two points for a win.

Like most stats that get flung about, they're pretty useless without some more context.

[flash]

Alex McLeish will always be my favourite. I loved his attitude and the team he put together was simply magnificent to watch.

Honourable mentions for Mowbray and Stubbs for also building teams that excited us all.

[He's here!]

Can't answer your question, but I remember my dad telling me Pat Stanton was absolutely convinced that if Stein had stayed we'd have won the league within a couple of years.

Stein's all-too brief spell in charge was remarkable. As well as the famous win over Real Madrid, we won the Summer Cup, completed the league double over Rangers for the first time since 1902/03 and also knocked them out of the Scottish Cup. We were very much in the title hunt and into the semi-finals of the cup when Celtic came in for Stein. It really hit the players hard and the season fell apart. Had he stayed, Stanton reckons they could have won the double.

[He's here!]

Jock Stein's record looked pretty remarkable in his short time at Hibs. Maybe one for the older posters on here but what kind of Hibs team did he inherit? Suppose there would have been a natural fall off from the 50's team for a while but with some pretty impressive European results here and there. Was there an immediate improvement under Stein? Makes you wonder what could have been if he's stayed a few years.

His predecessor Walter Galbraith wasn't a success at Hibs but he had an eye for player and most of those he signed or introduced to the first team went to do very well under Stein. Signings included Willie Hamilton, Pat Quinn and John Parke, while the young players given their chance included Bobby Duncan, Davy Hogg, Pat Stanton and Billy Simpson, while I think Eric Stevenson was already playing in the first team. Neil Martin was another top player around then. Stein's key signings were Joe Davis and John McNamee, while Peter Cormack may have started to make an impression around this time. So basically, yes, he had a lot of good players to work with and as you say he could probably have worked wonders with Hibs had he stayed with us for longer.

[He's here!]

He left with us in with a chance for us to do a League and Scottish Cup double.

He was a great manager no doubt but I don't rate him all that great as a Hibs manager given he sloped off just as the season was getting to the business end.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Agreed. In fact, despite the fact he was Hibs manager before my time I never liked him as Celtic or Scotland boss because of the way he left us! It was shocking timing, especially as Celtic weren't even in title contention and it's hard to fathom why Stein didn't see out the season with us. He'd have got a lot more flak for it these days.

[WeeRussell]

Alex McLeish will always be my favourite. I loved his attitude and the team he put together was simply magnificent to watch.

Honourable mentions for Mowbray and Stubbs for also building teams that excited us all.

100% these three for me too. Just not necessarily in the same order.

[Kato]

Agreed. In fact, despite the fact he was Hibs manager before my time I never liked him as Celtic or Scotland boss because of the way he left us! It was shocking timing, especially as Celtic weren't even in title contention and it's hard to fathom why Stein didn't see out the season with us. He'd have got a lot more flak for it these days.I'm too young to remember it so am only going on the various articles I've read. I remember the surprise as a teenager going through my older brothers box of Hibs stuff and seeing a team photo with Stein as manager as I was oblivious up to that point.

Anyway, seemingly, Celtc wrote to him offering him the job, with Hibs on the brink of a double, telling him if he didn't accept there and then he would never be offered the job again. So he bolted. You wonder why they didn't offer him the job while he was in charge of Dunfermline.

Great read this, featuring a young Alex Edwards. It implies that the closed shop that was the Celtc board at the time didn't want a protestant manager.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/12/11/jock-stein-at-dunfermline-the-launch-of-a-legend/

A feature on Stein with Hibs along with an interview with goal machine, Neil Martin.

https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2020/10/when-big-jock-stein-managed-hibs/

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[worcesterhibby]

The only time I have experienced the same anticipation and expectation watching Hibs was the second half of Neil Lennon’s first season in the Premiership


Surely you relished watching the Team that McLeish put together once Latapy, Sauzee and Zitelli were all at ER ?

[supermcginn]

Surely you relished watching the Team that McLeish put together once Latapy, Sauzee and Zitelli were all at ER ?

The McLeish team would have destroyed Lennon's team, my favourite hibs team by a mile.

[Since452]

His predecessor Walter Galbraith wasn't a success at Hibs but he had an eye for player and most of those he signed or introduced to the first team went to do very well under Stein. Signings included Willie Hamilton, Pat Quinn and John Parke, while the young players given their chance included Bobby Duncan, Davy Hogg, Pat Stanton and Billy Simpson, while I think Eric Stevenson was already playing in the first team. Neil Martin was another top player around then. Stein's key signings were Joe Davis and John McNamee, while Peter Cormack may have started to make an impression around this time. So basically, yes, he had a lot of good players to work with and as you say he could probably have worked wonders with Hibs had he stayed with us for longer.

Thanks for that. Interesting.

[He's here!]

I'm too young to remember it so am only going on the various articles I've read. I remember the surprise as a teenager going through my older brothers box of Hibs stuff and seeing a team photo with Stein as manager as I was oblivious up to that point.

Anyway, seemingly, Celtc wrote to him offering him the job, with Hibs on the brink of a double, telling him if he didn't accept there and then he would never be offered the job again. So he bolted. You wonder why they didn't offer him the job while he was in charge of Dunfermline.

Great read this, featuring a young Alex Edwards. It implies that the closed shop that was the Celtc board at the time didn't want a protestant manager.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/12/11/jock-stein-at-dunfermline-the-launch-of-a-legend/

A feature on Stein with Hibs along with an interview with goal machine, Neil Martin.

https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2020/10/when-big-jock-stein-managed-hibs/

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I hadn't realised quite how phenomenal a job he did at Dunfermline. Pity he wasn't deterred by the apparent anti-Protestant sentiment at Celtic.

[Mick O'Rourke]

His predecessor Walter Galbraith wasn't a success at Hibs but he had an eye for player and most of those he signed or introduced to the first team went to do very well under Stein. Signings included Willie Hamilton, Pat Quinn and John Parke, while the young players given their chance included Bobby Duncan, Davy Hogg, Pat Stanton and Billy Simpson, while I think Eric Stevenson was already playing in the first team. Neil Martin was another top player around then. Stein's key signings were Joe Davis and John McNamee, while Peter Cormack may have started to make an impression around this time. So basically, yes, he had a lot of good players to work with and as you say he could probably have worked wonders with Hibs had he stayed with us for longer.

Brilliant summary there,HH
Brought back some memories of fine players.

Walter also signed Jimmy O'Rourke, who of course was in the Holy Cross gang along with Pat and Davy Hogg.
Our very own Brog here was also in that Holy Cross gang!

Jimmy during Jocks spell with us spent a long time recovering from a very bad leg break.
I know !.. you dont get a good one.
But Jimmy's break was near career ending stuff.
His tree trunk legs,even then,likely helped his return.

Jock Stein lived on the Queensferry Road nr Parkgrove/Barnton, not far from our parents house and would sometimes give Jimmy a lift home while he was recovering, as did our goalkeeper Ronnie Simpson who lived in Drum Brae.
(just up from the Spice Kitchen/old Rainbow)
Jimmy said Jock had the knack to make average players good players and find the shape to suit/develop with what he had to work with ,if that makes sense. (we hope that now Nick will do that too )
Jock took that to another level at Celtic of course,turning what was already there into world beaters !
But Jock did not suffer fools gladly or have time for slackers.
Jock got the best out of Willie Hamilton, who Jock himself said was one the finest footballers he managed.

Back to Jimmy getting those lifts home from Jock.
On certain Fridays Willie Hamilton would also be in the car.
He would be a guest at Jocks family home that night, if a big match was on the following day !!
They came in for a drink a couple of times.
Our mother made a decent cuppa!!!
Jock didnae drink,but Willie didnae mind a glass.


On managers
Shaw and Eddie
I only wish Jock had hung around to finish that season.
Apparently he himself had a bit of " self guilt" on the way he left Hibs.

But that club has been robbing us since 1888.
They said that themselves on that daft day they brought the banners that said Hibernain and Celtc
SJM would have got them 10 in a row, but they dithered on that one !

[He's here!]

Brilliant summary there HH

Walter also signed Jimmy O'Rourke, who of course was in the Holy Cross gang along with Pat and Davy Hogg.
Our very own Brog here was also in that Holy Cross gang!

Jimmy during Jocks spell with us spent a long time recovering from a very bad leg break.
I know !.. you dont get a good one.
But Jimmy's break was near career ending stuff. His tree trunk legs, even then, likely helped.

Jock Stein lived on the Queensferry Road nr Barnton not far from our parents house and would often give Jimmy a lift home while he was recovering as did Ronnie Simpson who lived in Drum Brae.(just up from the Spice Kitchen/old Rainbow)
Jimmy said Jock had the knack to make average players good players and find the shape to suit with what he had to work with ,if that makes sense. (we hope that now Nick will do that too )
He took that to another level at Celtic turning what was already there into world beaters !
But Jock did not suffer fools gladly or have time for slackers.
Jock got the best out of Willie Hamilton, who Jock himself said was one the finest footballers he managed.

Back to Jimmy getting those lifts home from Jock.
On certain Fridays Willie Hamilton would also be in the car
He would be a guest at Jocks family home that night, if a big match was on the following day !!
They came in for a drink a couple of times.
Our mother made a decent cuppa!!!
Jock didnae drink but Willie didnae mind a glass.


On managers
Shaw and Eddie
I only wish Jock had hung around to finish that season.
Apparently he himself had a bit of " self guilt" on the way he left Hibs.

But that club has been robbing us since 1888
They said that themselves that daft day they brought the banners that said Hibernain and Celtc
SJM would have got them 10 in a row, but they dithered on that one !

I wasn't sure if Galbraith had signed Jimmy (maybe as you say because he was out injured for so long) so thanks for confirming that.

Love the story of Stein having Hamilton as a 'guest' before big games! That's going above and beyond, but from what I've heard of Willie there was probably a chance he'd not have made the game otherwise (George Best comes to mind).

Don't think Stein and Turnbull ever saw eye to eye.

[Mick O'Rourke]

I wasn't sure if Galbraith had signed Jimmy (maybe as you say because he was out injured for so long) so thanks for confirming that.

Love the story of Stein having Hamilton as a 'guest' before big games! That's going above and beyond, but from what I've heard of Willie there was probably a chance he'd not have made the game otherwise (George Best comes to mind).

Don't think Stein and Turnbull ever saw eye to eye.

No....! Eddie had said that publicly as well.
Not sure i remember why.

But he would have also played against Jock in the 50s.
So maybe stemmed from then.
When Eddie played for Hibs,Celtic were 2nd,even 3rd best or worse in those years.
The old huns were our main rivals then,until Hearts put a team together to win trophies.
In saying that ,Hertz still did well in derby games during that period.

Eddie maybe also disliked what he thought was arrogance from Jock.
But those Hampden cup final spankings speak for themselves,dont they?
We were very good,but Celtic had that edge(and a bigger squad) at the time ,even if the great '67 side was fading,
they were still a good football team.

[greenpaper55]

I was only a teenager when Stein was manager but i still remember how he always seem to spot the opposition weakness and act accordingly, you always new that the team would usually come out in the second half with the answer, not many time in my life could i say that !

[Kato]

Whether Stein and Turnbull got on or not it's telling that Turnbull was immediately asked by Stein to be his assistant when he took the Scotland job.


I don't think Turnbull got on with anyone in the 70s, he was grumpy as down to his illness.


https://i2-prod.aberdeenlive.news/incoming/article6494934.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200b/0_Eddie-Turnbull.jpg


Pic is after Aberdeen won the Cup in 1970.

[Mick O'Rourke]

I was only a teenager when Stein was manager but i still remember how he always seem to spot the opposition weakness and act accordingly, you always new that the team would usually come out in the second half with the answer, not many time in my life could i say that !

Spot on,, and he did just that in the ultimate game in Lisbon in overcoming Inter's catenaccio defensive tactics.
Both Celtic's goals were shots from outside the box.
So Inter's defence packing the box was donald ducked !
Sounds simple,eh?..but Jock was a genius in the game.

[A Hi-Bee]

Aye, if only in regard to Jock he had a very good group of Hibs players, and sure he would have made them even better and added to them.
Great to read about one of my auld heroes Neil Martin, who along with Joe Baker and Kenny Dalglish are I think? the only 3 players to have scored more than a 100 goals in both Scotland and England. (sure someone will tell me otherwise if not right)
Great days which could have been even greater, who knows, it may even have been Hibs in that European Cup thingy.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Whether Stein and Turnbull got on or not it's telling that Turnbull was immediately asked by Stein to be his assistant when he took the Scotland job.


I don't think Turnbull got on with anyone in the 70s, he was grumpy as down to his illness.


https://i2-prod.aberdeenlive.news/incoming/article6494934.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200b/0_Eddie-Turnbull.jpg


Pic is after Aberdeen won the Cup in 1970.

Indeed .we dont know what Eddie was going through at times.
But Jock's Celtic teams certainly frustrated him!!
Of course Jock knew that Eddie was a good coach, like you mention re. Scotland post.

I chatted with Eddie many years after he retired.
I sat with him in the old Barnton Hotel public bar.
He had some regrets about his own behaviour and some decision making.
He was old school discipline like a number of coaches from his era.
Willie Ormond, likewise.
He told me, whether he thought it was what i wanted to hear or not, that he regretted letting Jimmy O'Rourke leave the club.
Of course he tried to resign him later,but by then the Tornadoes where dwindling.
The spark had sadly long gone.
I enjoyed his company the times i met him with Jimmy in later years.
Jimmy absolutely loved the man. And still called him "Boss"!
They knew each other since Jimmy signed for Hibs as a schoolboy.
Eddie was Hibs trainer at the time when Walter Galbraith was boss.

We who saw the Tornadoes,as short lived as they were, saw one of the finest Hibs sides to don the Green and White. I hope Nick brings that style of football ,as i have been told he prefers ,back to the Holy Ground.

[King Cosell]

Win % is rubbish. Lennon only lost 10 of 74 in his first 2 league seasons. but he only won 37 so his win % in those games was 50%, and 36 of those were against Championship teams. You can't, using only stats, compare his record to another manager who took over when the club was on its arse, with no money to spend, and played all his league games in the top flight.

[Kato]

Indeed .we dont know what Eddie was going through at times.
But Jock's Celtic teams certainly frustrated him!!
Of course Jock knew that Eddie was a good coach, like you mention re Scoltland post.

I chatted with Eddie many years after he retired.
I sat with him in the old Barnton Hotel public bar.
He had some regrets about his own behaviour and some decision making.
He was old school discipline like a number of coaches from his era
Willie Ormond, likewise.
He told me, whether he thought it was what i wanted to hear or not, that he regretted letting Jimmy leave the club.
Of course he tried to resign him later,but by then the Tornadoes where dwindling.
The spark had sadly long gone.
I enjoyed his company the times i met him with Jimmy in later years.
Jimmy absolutely loved the man. And still called him "Boss"!
They knew each other since Jimmy signed for Hibs as a schoolboy.
Eddie was Hibs trainer at the time when Walter Galbraith was boss.Yeah, I met ET regularly in Stockie in his latter years. Far more chilled out but just as sweary, he always had a sense of humour anyway but it was a tad less brutal and just as dry. Miracle he reached the age he did.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[A Hi-Bee]

Win % is rubbish. Lennon only lost 10 of 74 in his first 2 league seasons. but he only won 37 so his win % in those games was 50%, and 36 of those were against Championship teams. You can't, using only stats, compare his record to another manager who took over when the club was on its arse, with no money to spend, and played all his league games in the top flight.

“There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics”

What cannot be disputed, was the fact that Jock Stein was a fantastic football manager.

[Kato]

“There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics”

What cannot be disputed, was the fact that Jock Stein was a fantastic football manager.He was. Despite being a Hibby it was a privilege to watch that Celtic team. Didn't like it at the time but still, fantastic line-ups and style of play.

Better than the stickies "bounce, bounce goal" tactics, whilst elbowing and punching when the ball was in the air.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[BILLYHIBS]

Surely you relished watching the Team that McLeish put together once Latapy, Sauzee and Zitelli were all at ER ?

Loved it watched them home and away

Sauzee closest thing to King Paddy I have seen Latapy was indeed the Little Magician sublime touch movement and awareness and lots of other good players in that side

I suppose I was thinking the way TT’s and Lenny’s team played as a unit as a team dictating the pace and tempo of games totally dominating who can forget that midfield of McGeouch McGinn and Allan ?

Both sides only shone for a short period of time

Mowbray’s side had some great players as well

Teenage Kicks you never knew what Hibs would turn up ?

Never a dull moment

Loved Mowbray as a Manager always said the right thing at the right time

Needed a Keeper

The way things unravelled with McLeish Lennon and to a lesser extent Turnbull left a bad taste in the mouth

An interesting question posed by another poster would McLeish’s team beat Lenny’s team ?

[He's here!]

Indeed .we dont know what Eddie was going through at times.
But Jock's Celtic teams certainly frustrated him!!
Of course Jock knew that Eddie was a good coach, like you mention re. Scotland post.

I chatted with Eddie many years after he retired.
I sat with him in the old Barnton Hotel public bar.
He had some regrets about his own behaviour and some decision making.
He was old school discipline like a number of coaches from his era.
Willie Ormond, likewise.
He told me, whether he thought it was what i wanted to hear or not, that he regretted letting Jimmy O'Rourke leave the club.
Of course he tried to resign him later,but by then the Tornadoes where dwindling.
The spark had sadly long gone.
I enjoyed his company the times i met him with Jimmy in later years.
Jimmy absolutely loved the man. And still called him "Boss"!
They knew each other since Jimmy signed for Hibs as a schoolboy.
Eddie was Hibs trainer at the time when Walter Galbraith was boss.

We who saw the Tornadoes,as short lived as they were, saw one of the finest Hibs sides to don the Green and White. I hope Nick brings that style of football ,as i have been told he prefers ,back to the Holy Ground.

There's an interview with Eddie on an old Hibs video I've got somewhere in which he recalls Hibs losing at Pittodrie during his playing days and being so enraged by his team-mates' lacklustre performance that he (and possibly another player) didn't get the bus/train back to Edinburgh and simply headed into Aberdeen for a night out. When he returned to ER the chairman told him he was going to write to his mother...hardly something to strike fear into a hardened navy veteran who saw some really brutal active service.

[BILLYHIBS]

Remember a story from Ned’s book after defeating Celtic at Pittodrie he could hear Jock Stein’s limping footsteps following him up the tunnel at the end of the game so he slowed down to let him catch up

Stein accused him of not trying like that against the other half of the Old Firm

Eddie assured him that he hated them both equally

[Mick O'Rourke]

There's an interview with Eddie on an old Hibs video I've got somewhere in which he recalls Hibs losing at Pittodrie during his playing days and being so enraged by his team-mates' lacklustre performance that he (and possibly another player) didn't get the bus/train back to Edinburgh and simply headed into Aberdeen for a night out. When he returned to ER the chairman told him he was going to write to his mother...hardly something to strike fear into a hardened navy veteran who saw some really brutal active service.

I found the very interview on youtube
with Last Minute Reilly and Grant Stott

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km4N9kVpK7g

Classic stuff from Classic players and a Classic Mother !

[Since452]

Surely you relished watching the Team that McLeish put together once Latapy, Sauzee and Zitelli were all at ER ?

McLeish's team at their pomp was the best Hibs team I've ever seen. I was at school but remember it well. Think he probably had the highest budget of any Hibs manager ever though. Was it not because of the money we were spending then that led to the eventual necessity to play the young lads? Riordan, Brown, Thomson etc as we were skint?

[Kato]

McLeish's team at their pomp was the best Hibs team I've ever seen. I was at school but remember it well. Think he probably had the highest budget of any Hibs manager ever though. Was it not because of the money we were spending then that led to the eventual necessity to play the young lads? Riordan, Brown, Thomson etc as we were skint?That happened to all the clubs as the SPL messed up the negotiations on the best TV deal we ever had and its never been the same since.

Celtic took the hit but were big enough to do so with their financial model. Rangers went with side-contracts and tax evasion. Hearts had already renaged on their training centre deal with SMG and almost lost Tiny (boohoo) but their political connections, Foulkes and Cardownie, meant a money launderer saw them flush. Hibs cut their cloth, recognised that they couldn't even pay appearence money for some older players and we were lucky enough to witness the advent and development of the Golden Generation.

My favourite was Turnbull as we were still in and around top class football then. Loved Latapy et al, but Mowbrays side were definitely my second favourite. Rocking up knowing there would thrills and spills from a team packed with local youth, Davie Murphy, Boozy, all 11 Ivan Sproules - buzzing every Saturday back then.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Since452]

That happened to all the clubs as the SPL messed up the negotiations on the best TV deal we ever had and its never been the same since.

Celtic took the hit but were big enough to do so with their financial model. Rangers went with side-contracts and tax evasion. Hearts had already renaged on their training centre deal with SMG and almost lost Tiny (boohoo) but their political connections, Foulkes and Cardownie, meant a money launderer saw them flush. Hibs cut their cloth, recognised that they couldn't even pay appearence money for some older players and we were lucky enough to witness the advent and development of the Golden Generation.

My favourite was Turnbull as we were still in and around top class football then. Loved Latapy et al, but Mowbrays side were definitely my second favourite. Rocking up knowing there would thrills and spills from a team packed with local youth, Davie Murphy, Boozy, all 11 Ivan Sproules - buzzing every Saturday back then.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

True. Would loved to have seen the Tornadoes. They were my dads team. I don't think folk that didn't see them will appreciate how good they were. Mowbrays side were magic.

[IberianHibernian]

I think Shankly was our manager when I first saw Hibs but Willie McFarlane is first manager I really remember . Short spell as manager but included wins at Parkhead and Ibrox and I think he signed Schaedler and Duncan who went on to be key players with Turnbull . Left after a bust up with Hart I think and don`t think he had success as a manager elsewhere but was certainly a very good Hibs manager . Turnbull had won cup at Aberdeen and they had a great team at time we ended their unbeaten run on Joe Baker`s return to Hibs in 1971 and of course fans like me are lucky enough to remember great entertainment during Tornadoes years but also remember how team went into decline leading up to relegation .

[ddoc]

Indeed .we dont know what Eddie was going through at times.
But Jock's Celtic teams certainly frustrated him!!
Of course Jock knew that Eddie was a good coach, like you mention re. Scotland post.

I chatted with Eddie many years after he retired.
I sat with him in the old Barnton Hotel public bar.
He had some regrets about his own behaviour and some decision making.
He was old school discipline like a number of coaches from his era.
Willie Ormond, likewise.
He told me, whether he thought it was what i wanted to hear or not, that he regretted letting Jimmy O'Rourke leave the club.
Of course he tried to resign him later,but by then the Tornadoes where dwindling.
The spark had sadly long gone.
I enjoyed his company the times i met him with Jimmy in later years.
Jimmy absolutely loved the man. And still called him "Boss"!
They knew each other since Jimmy signed for Hibs as a schoolboy.
Eddie was Hibs trainer at the time when Walter Galbraith was boss.

We who saw the Tornadoes,as short lived as they were, saw one of the finest Hibs sides to don the Green and White. I hope Nick brings that style of football ,as i have been told he prefers ,back to the Holy Ground.


It is memories from the like of yourself who were close to the coal face during these times that I thoroughly enjoy.
My Dad took me to ER for the first time in 65, then I was there as often as I could till joining the RAF in 74.
The decline of that great, great team had already started then and I never got back into seeing Hibs much for many years.
Thank you for sharing these memories with us.

[He's here!]

I think Shankly was our manager when I first saw Hibs but Willie McFarlane is first manager I really remember . Short spell as manager but included wins at Parkhead and Ibrox and I think he signed Schaedler and Duncan who went on to be key players with Turnbull . Left after a bust up with Hart I think and don`t think he had success as a manager elsewhere but was certainly a very good Hibs manager . Turnbull had won cup at Aberdeen and they had a great team at time we ended their unbeaten run on Joe Baker`s return to Hibs in 1971 and of course fans like me are lucky enough to remember great entertainment during Tornadoes years but also remember how team went into decline leading up to relegation .

Dave 'Rangers are rubbish' Ewing must have had his spell in charge around that time too. Was he Turnbull's predecessor?

[Mick O'Rourke]

It is memories from the like of yourself who were close to the coal face during these times that I thoroughly enjoy.
My Dad took me to ER for the first time in 65, then I was there as often as I could till joining the RAF in 74.
The decline of that great, great team had already started then and I never got back into seeing Hibs much for many years.
Thank you for sharing these memories with us.

Thanks for your nice comments, ddoc.
Now and again on here a thread title/subject triggers an old memory of earlier times.
No bad thing for an auld yin . Therapeutic and clears the cobwebs sometimes.
I was fortunate to be going along during the times we had some of our most memorable games/teams.
....and of course playing some of Europes elite clubs on floodlit Wednesday nights .. and beating them!!
My favourite times at ER were my pre marriage younger days :greengrin. 60s/early 70s !
So it would be the years you also went before your RAF days.
Like yourself, i had spells working "away from home" and missed a lot.
Happy days and memories we both have !:thumbsup:

[ddoc]

Thanks for your nice comments, ddoc.
Now and again on here a thread title/subject triggers an old memory of earlier times.
No bad thing for an auld yin . Therapeutic and clears the cobwebs,sometimes.
I was fortunate to be going along during the times we had some of our most memorable games/teams and of course playing some of Europes elite clubs on floodlit Wednesday nights .. and beating them!!!
My favourite times at ER were my pre marriage younger days :greengrin. 60s/early 70s !
So it would be the years you also went before your RAF days.
Happy days and memories !


I can only hope that these ‘triggers’ happen more often as they make a great read.
We are of the same generation as many on here are, and I am sure many of our younger supporters envy the team we seen in our youth.

[He's here!]

Surely you relished watching the Team that McLeish put together once Latapy, Sauzee and Zitelli were all at ER ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHKWyj8wi4

Zitelli scores two and sets up another in this cracking performance.

[Since452]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHKWyj8wi4

Zitelli scores two and sets up another in this cracking performance.

To me the Hibs kit always looks more vibrant with white socks. Much prefer it to green socks.

[Kato]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmHKWyj8wi4

Zitelli scores two and sets up another in this cracking performance.2nd one is a raker made better by Latas's exemplary vision.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[SHODAN]

In terms of Hibs managers in my time as a fan, I'd go:

1. Stubbs
2. Lennon
3. Mowbray
4. Collins
5. Ross
6. Paatelainen
7. Hughes
8. Fenlon
9. Johnson
10. Heckingbottom
11. Calderwood
12. Maloney
13. Butcher

[worcesterhibby]

when it comes to Best Hibs managers you can forget win ratio.

Look at who won a trophy and had a good record against Hearts.

There are only two managers in our History who have won anything and also have a positive record against Hearts - Eddie Turnbull and Alan Stubbs

Turnbull has by far the best record against Hearts of any Hibs manager

Lennon's record is no better than Heckinbottom or Mixu

[He's here!]

when it comes to Best Hibs managers you can forget win ratio.

Look at who won a trophy and had a good record against Hearts.

There are only two managers in our History who have won anything and also have a positive record against Hearts - Eddie Turnbull and Alan Stubbs

Turnbull has by far the best record against Hearts of any Hibs manager

Lennon's record is no better than Heckinbottom or Mixu

McLeish had a very good record against them, while Sauzee never lost a derby as a player or manager.

[worcesterhibby]

McLeish had a very good record against them, while Sauzee never lost a derby as a player or manager.

Mcleish did have a very good win ratio, second only to Ned I think..he just never managed to win anything (unless you include the 1st div title which kind of skews things) He did get to a Cup Final though and to be fair we were beaten by a very. very good Celtix side with Larsson in his pomp. He has to be right up there, just under Ned and Stubbs

[BILLYHIBS]

Mcleish did have a very good win ratio, second only to Ned I think..he just never managed to win anything (unless you include the 1st div title which kind of skews things) He did get to a Cup Final though and to be fair we were beaten by a very. very good Celtix side with Larsson in his pomp. He has to be right up there, just under Ned and Stubbs

McLeish took us to sixth then third and left us in eighth

Was unlucky in the Cup Final falling out with Latapy and Sauzee playing with an injury

Held our own until they brought on Jackie Mac Jnr who ran the midfield and as you say they had Larsson one a dodgy pen and one offside 😀

[He's here!]

McLeish took us to sixth then third and left us in eighth

Was unlucky in the Cup Final falling out with Latapy and Sauzee playing with an injury

Held our own until they brought on Jackie Mac Jnr who ran the midfield and as you say they had Larsson one a dodgy pen and one offside 😀

The Latapy sacking kind of finished us that season. We'd pretty much sealed third by Christmas (with second spot for a long time a real possibility) but we tailed off quite badly as the league season wound down. Without Latapy (and as you say a not fully fit Sauzee) we were really up against in the final. Great season overall though.

[Kato]

The Latapy sacking kind of finished us that season. We'd pretty much sealed third by Christmas (with second spot for a long time a real possibility) but we tailed off quite badly as the league season wound down. Without Latapy (and as you say a not fully fit Sauzee) we were really up against in the final. Great season overall though.Also, very strong rumours emerged that McLeish was already in talks to take over Rangers. Alleged several spots of him meeting Murray and Advocat.

Latapys lifestyle was no secret yet he chose that one single incident to sack him, only for them to team up again at the currents. Weird.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Since452]

In terms of Hibs managers in my time as a fan, I'd go:

1. Stubbs
2. Lennon
3. Mowbray
4. Collins
5. Ross
6. Paatelainen
7. Hughes
8. Fenlon
9. Johnson
10. Heckingbottom
11. Calderwood
12. Maloney
13. Butcher

1. McLeish
2. Mowbray
3. Stubbs
4. Ross
5. Collins
6. Lennon
7. Mixu
8. Hughes
9. Johnson
10. Fenlon
11. Miller
12. Heckingbottom
13. Calderwood
14. Maloney
15. Duffy
16. Butcher

If Montgomery can get himself in the top 5 he'll have done very well.

[heretoday]

Jock Stein's record looked pretty remarkable in his short time at Hibs. Maybe one for the older posters on here but what kind of Hibs team did he inherit? Suppose there would have been a natural fall off from the 50's team for a while but with some pretty impressive European results here and there. Was there an immediate improvement under Stein? Makes you wonder what could have been if he's stayed a few years.

Galbraith's team only escaped relegation by the skin of their teeth despite having some good players in the ranks.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Also, very strong rumours emerged that McLeish was already in talks to take over Rangers. Alleged several spots of him meeting Murray and Advocat.

Latapys lifestyle was no secret yet he chose that one single incident to sack him, only for them to team up again at the currents. Weird.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I dont think any maga type Qanon conspiracy went on over all that was between Alex and Russell.

McLeish may well have bit off his nose to spite his face, but Latapy's antics were often ignored.
He got away with murder while at Hibs..Socialised like a rock star .
The incident with Dwight Yorke and the polis involved maybe led Alex(or the boardroom) to take extreme action.
The straw that broke the camels back, as the say in rural Cairo.
I too was at that final and of course Russell was a big miss,and Sauzee not quite fully fit of course.
It flattened the day so to speak.
Us thinking we were beat before we had even left the local bowling club at half 2 .
Another great opportunity at Hampden missed before we kicked a ba'
Russell was not a favourite of Alex in terms of being selected when both were at the orangebowl.
So the pre cup final incident seems to have still irked Alex at that time too .



Trivia
Only six Scotsmen started that cup final of 2001
Not counting the ref !!
Awful defending .
What changes in some finals with us ?
Our defence freezes solid so many times.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_v5KyagAA

[He's here!]

I dont think any maga type Qanon conspiracy went on over all that was between Alex and Russell.

McLeish may well have bit off his nose to spite his face, but Latapy's antics were often ignored.
He got away with murder while at Hibs..Socialised like a rock star .
The incident with Dwight Yorke and the polis involved maybe snapped Alex to take extreme action.
The straw that broke the camels back, as the say in rural Cairo.
I too was at that final and of course Russell was a big miss,and Sauzee not quite fully fit of course.
It flattened the day so to speak.
Us thinking we were beat before we had even left the local bowling club at half 2 .
Another great opportunity at Hampden missed before we kicked a ba'
Russell was not a favourite of Alex in terms of being selected when both were at the orangebowl.
So the pre cup final incident seems to have still irked Alex at that time too .



Trivia
Only six Scotsmen started that cup final of 2001
Not counting the ref !!
Awful defending .
What changes in some finals with us ?
Our defence freezes solid so many times.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw_v5KyagAA

Don't think I've seen those goals since the day itself. I have no memory of the Larsson ones. I do remember we started pretty well and looked like getting to HT all square so it was gutting to concede that McNamara goal. Like you, I remember we kind of felt a bit beaten before the game. Hence a massive night out on the Friday (not sure I even went to bed) which might account for my hazy memory of the match!

[Kato]

I dont think any maga type Qanon conspiracy went on over all that was between Alex and Russell.

McLeish may well have bit off his nose to spite his face, but Latapy's antics were often ignored.
He got away with murder while at Hibs..Socialised like a rock star .
The incident with Dwight Yorke and the polis involved maybe snapped Alex(or the boardroom) to take extreme action.


Yes, it's probably a stretch. The talk of Murray/Wee Dick courting McLeish months before he left was pretty strong. More than a few people seeing them together that season, written in the hibs-list which wasn't prone to hyperbole.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

Also, very strong rumours emerged that McLeish was already in talks to take over Rangers. Alleged several spots of him meeting Murray and Advocat.

Latapys lifestyle was no secret yet he chose that one single incident to sack him, only for them to team up again at the currents. Weird.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

For a guy who smoked and enjoyed the nightlife Latapy enjoyed a remarkably long career. IIRC he was still playing for Falkirk at 41.

[Mick O'Rourke]

Don't think I've seen those goals since the day itself. I have no memory of the Larsson ones. I do remember we started pretty well and looked like getting to HT all square so it was gutting to concede that McNamara goal. Like you, I remember we kind of felt a bit beaten before the game. Hence a massive night out on the Friday (not sure I even went to bed) which might account for my hazy memory of the match!

Did you bump into Russell on your pub crawl :greengrin

[Northernhibee]

1. Stubbs
2. Mowbray
3. Ross
4. McLeish
5. Collins
6. Yogi
7. Fenlon
8. Mixu
9. Johnson
10. Hecky
11. Lennon
12. Williamson
13. Maloney
14. Duffy
15. Butcher
16. Calderwood

In hindsight, the atrocity of Butcher led to us reshaping our strategy as a club, and a month after he came in was decent which although **** all in the grand scheme of things still puts him above Calderwood who sucked the life completely of following Hibs.

A lot of it also comes down to who I liked representing the club or entertainment value - I liked Pat Fenlon as a person and thought he took the club at a time that we were a shambles, so he rates higher than Lennon where the second half of his second season was extremely entertaining but found his getting into scraps with another manager when in the second tier embarrassing and not what I’d expect of a Hibs manager.

LJ rates higher than I first thought as there were defo good times and when we were winning his odd interviews could be endearing, if not very grating when we were losing.

I’ve not put in Le God as quite frankly, I remember him only as a player for us. I’d rather not have to rate his time as a manager.

[BILLYHIBS]

Special mention for the late great Dan McMichael who was a jack of all trades physio trainer talent spotter ( many full internationals) treasurer secretary Referee sprinter longest serving Manager running the club almost single handedly winning a League and Cup double ( different seasons)
Kept the club running during the dark years of the Great War when our boys did not know if there would be a Hibs to come home to only to succumb to the Spanish Flu in 1919 whilst still in Office

[Mick O'Rourke]

Special mention for the late great Dan McMichael who was a jack of all trades physio trainer talent spotter ( many full internationals) treasurer Manager running the club almost single handedly winning a League and Cup double ( different seasons)
Kept the club running during the dark years of the Great War when our boys did not know if there would be a Hibs to come home to only to succumb to the Spanish Flu in 1919 whilst still in Office


For his devotion.perseverance, commitment,dedication, his love and passion for the Hibernian, no one in the history of our club can come close to Dan McMichael.
He epitomises all that our club stood for in the early days.

You just gave a name to one of our stands. It should happen.

[DIXIHIBS]

1. McLeish
2. Mowbray
3. Stubbs
4. Ross
5. Collins
6. Lennon
7. Mixu
8. Hughes
9. Johnson
10. Fenlon
11. Miller
12. Heckingbottom
13. Calderwood
14. Maloney
15. Duffy
16. Butcher

If Montgomery can get himself in the top 5 he'll have done very well.

Thats a frighteningly long list for 20 odd years😭

[Bostonhibby]

For his devotion.perseverance, commitment,dedication, his love and passion for the Hibernian, no one in the history of our club can come close to Dan McMichael.
He epitomises all that our club stood for in the early days.

You just gave a name to one of our stands. It should happen.Undoubtedly. As someone who reads as much as I can about the history of our club I'm a bit ashamed I missed him out. I guess it's a product of who I've actually seen but on the evidence he is probably right up there.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[nonshinyfinish]

Thats a frighteningly long list for 20 odd years[emoji24]It's 27 years (would be 37, but I left Miller out as his long tenure is such an outlier).

16 managers (removing Miller but adding Sauzee back into the list above) in 27 years gives an average tenure of about 20 months, which I think is pretty typical for football managers generally.

Edit: original list is missing Williamson, so 17 in 27 = 19 months on average.

[Eyrie]

For his devotion.perseverance, commitment,dedication, his love and passion for the Hibernian, no one in the history of our club can come close to Dan McMichael.
He epitomises all that our club stood for in the early days.

You just gave a name to one of our stands. It should happen.

Good call.

[WeeRussell]

Did you bump into Russell on your pub crawl :greengrin

I was barely of drinking age!!

[worcesterhibby]

Undoubtedly. As someone who reads as much as I can about the history of our club I'm a bit ashamed I missed him out. I guess it's a product of who I've actually seen but on the evidence he is probably right up there.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
Unfortunately his record against Hearts was dreadful

[WeeRussell]

1. Stubbs
2. Mowbray
3. Ross
4. McLeish
5. Collins
6. Yogi
7. Fenlon
8. Mixu
9. Johnson
10. Hecky
11. Lennon
12. Williamson
13. Maloney
14. Duffy
15. Butcher
16. Calderwood

In hindsight, the atrocity of Butcher led to us reshaping our strategy as a club, and a month after he came in was decent which although **** all in the grand scheme of things still puts him above Calderwood who sucked the life completely of following Hibs.

A lot of it also comes down to who I liked representing the club or entertainment value - I liked Pat Fenlon as a person and thought he took the club at a time that we were a shambles, so he rates higher than Lennon where the second half of his second season was extremely entertaining but found his getting into scraps with another manager when in the second tier embarrassing and not what I’d expect of a Hibs manager.

LJ rates higher than I first thought as there were defo good times and when we were winning his odd interviews could be endearing, if not very grating when we were losing.

I’ve not put in Le God as quite frankly, I remember him only as a player for us. I’d rather not have to rate his time as a manager.

Is it a personality preference for JR over McLeish for you too? Not necessarily saying you’ve got them the wrong way round but it’s an interesting one, even more so given JR is the only one of your top 5 that we ended up sacking.