What is "The Scottish Game"?

[Hibbyradge]

I've seen this old cliché countless times regarding a potential new manager, but I don't know what it means.

"He knows the league."

"Understands Scottish football".

What's so different about the SPFL from other leagues that not having direct knowledge and experience of it is such a colossal handicap?

[bingo70]

I've seen this old cliché countless times regarding a potential new manager, but I don't know what it means.

"He knows the league."

"Understands Scottish football".

What's so different about the SPFL from other leagues that not having direct knowledge and experience of it is such a colossal handicap?

I have to say I don’t get that school of thought and find it very frustrating to read.

Playing devils advocate though I think there is a few things they need to understand.

-you need to win battles, Heckingbottom tried to play a midfield without someone that could tackle and it didn’t work. The game here is fast and furious and you need players who can play that way.

-I think you need to accept you need to play a different way when playing away at Celtic compared to what you play at home against St Johnstone for example.

- if you underestimate it you’ll last 5 minutes. It’s a much better and more competitive league than it’s given credit for.

Where I get frustrated though is the idea you need to have experience of Scottish football to understand the above. You just need to spend 5 minutes learning about it. It’s not some magical land with complex tactics that you need a 5 year education in, just give it the respect it deserves.

[Hibbyradge]

I have to say I don’t get that school of thought and find it very frustrating to read.

Playing devils advocate though I think there is a few things they need to understand.

-you need to win battles, Heckingbottom tried to play a midfield without someone that could tackle and it didn’t work. The game here is fast and furious and you need players who can play that way.

-I think you need to accept you need to play a different way when playing away at Celtic compared to what you play at home against St Johnstone for example.

- if you underestimate it you’ll last 5 minutes. It’s a much better and more competitive league than it’s given credit for.

Where I get frustrated though is the idea you need to have experience of Scottish football to understand the above. You just need to spend 5 minutes learning about it. It’s not some magical land with complex tactics that you need a 5 year education in, just give it the respect it deserves.

My thoughts exactly.

I occasionally watch Bradford City in League 2 and York City in non-league. All the points you make are relevant to both those leagues and they'll equally apply in League One.

Underestimating the league isn't really important, imo. It's underestimating opponents than gets you f***ed and any manager can do that in any league against anyone.

Unless I've missed something, "knowledge of the league" isn't even close to being a prerequisite. In fact, in some ways, it can be a hindrance.

[Smartie]

I get why folk have this issue but I don't really agree with it.

Down South there are certain aspects of football culture that are different to here. In the lower leagues there are 46 league games per season. Due to FFP rules, most of the teams are of a similar standard and the financial advantages held by the biggest clubs (like when a big club drops into league 1) are watered down a bit. A point on the road can often be considered to be a good result, and teams can play effectively and win lots of points hitting teams on the break.

Up here in the premier league we've got teams from EPL to league 2 standard all in the same league imo. At Hibs and at home we'll have a lot of teams come who have very little interest in having possession and taking us on at football. They'll have much less resource and will be used to utilising that to defend in depth and hit us on the break, therefore we'll need to have a squad that is as capable of dominating possession and winning lots of points against "weaker" teams as it is taking on similar sized clubs (Hearts and Aberdeen) and trying to nick bits here and there off Celtic and Rangers.

I reckon that's why you see a clearly capable manager in Heckingbottom fail at Hibs - he had his rigid 451 that didn't do enough to break teams down, and it's where a lot of our managers are going to fail if we take them from that market.

So it's nothing about "getting Scottish football" but everything about being able to put together a squad at Hibs that is effective in front of a restless Easter Road crowd but also effective when travelling to away grounds of clubs who have less resource but who can still put out handy, tough, difficult to beat teams.

[#2 Double Tap]

It’s knowing how to play in the howling wind and rain at Inverness on a Tuesday night, or understanding why rivalries exist and how important they are. It knowing stuff like Hamilton will just punt the ball and that, hearts are hammer throwers and prefer rugby. That kinda thing imo.

[Since452]

I don't think you can come in to Scottish football blind to the rivalries, blood and thunder nature of it etc, but any manager worth their salt would do their homework anyway. I think having a proven track record in the league is very different to an outsider "understanding" Scottish football though. I think right now we need the former rather than the latter.

[Jones28]

It’s knowing how to play in the howling wind and rain at Inverness on a Tuesday night, or understanding why rivalries exist and how important they are. It knowing stuff like Hamilton will just punt the ball and that, hearts are hammer throwers and prefer rugby. That kinda thing imo.

Does that not apply to Stoke as well?

[Jones28]

Defining features of the Scottish game can mostly be applied to any country in Europe, just with different accents.

What sets Scottish football apart for me is the sectarianism amongst its two biggest clubs being actively exploited by both teams because it sells jerseys.

I wouldn't swap Scottish football for anything, but I would see the sectarianism booted in to outer space so quick it would singe your eyebrows.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I get why folk have this issue but I don't really agree with it.

Down South there are certain aspects of football culture that are different to here. In the lower leagues there are 46 league games per season. Due to FFP rules, most of the teams are of a similar standard and the financial advantages held by the biggest clubs (like when a big club drops into league 1) are watered down a bit. A point on the road can often be considered to be a good result, and teams can play effectively and win lots of points hitting teams on the break.

Up here in the premier league we've got teams from EPL to league 2 standard all in the same league imo. At Hibs and at home we'll have a lot of teams come who have very little interest in having possession and taking us on at football. They'll have much less resource and will be used to utilising that to defend in depth and hit us on the break, therefore we'll need to have a squad that is as capable of dominating possession and winning lots of points against "weaker" teams as it is taking on similar sized clubs (Hearts and Aberdeen) and trying to nick bits here and there off Celtic and Rangers.

I reckon that's why you see a clearly capable manager in Heckingbottom fail at Hibs - he had his rigid 451 that didn't do enough to break teams down, and it's where a lot of our managers are going to fail if we take them from that market.

So it's nothing about "getting Scottish football" but everything about being able to put together a squad at Hibs that is effective in front of a restless Easter Road crowd but also effective when travelling to away grounds of clubs who have less resource but who can still put out handy, tough, difficult to beat teams.

Pretty well summed up. The above notwithstanding If you want to give a player experience of all the stuff he might face in his career you could probably do worse than loan him to us or Hearts. There can't be many leagues where you can play in a small ground in front of 5,000 a medium sized ground in front of 16,000 plus and a huge stadium in front of 50,000 plus in the space of a fortnight in the league. You wont get that in the EPL reserve league north or whatever they play in. You can also experience European football and the intensity of a fiercely fought derby. It's the whole package really.

[Pretty Boy]

I think there has to be an acknowledgment that the game is often played at a break neck speed in Scotland, not necessarily prior knowledge of that but a willingness to adapt to it is probably required. Of course a lot of leagues play far slicker and quicker football but it's a weird kind of speed in Scotland that can see teams run off their feet if they aren't prepared for it. I would argue our results against Luzern are a clear example of when that can be an advantage. Their manager was mouthing off post game about how much better they were than us and if we are talking about purely technical ability then he is probably right. Over 2 legs though we were well worth our win despite not playing football that was as intricate or pretty. It arguably impacts players more than managers; think of Joey Barton watching as 3 Hamilton midfielders strolled past him at will on his debut. He went on to play EPL football again after that episode. Roy Keane admitted he knew he was done when Brown, Stewart et al were walking past him and at Hibs Edwin De Graaf was a technically sound player but was miles off the pace here. I'm just not convinced anyone wanting to play a really, slow, patient, possession based game is going to succeed here. Celtic under Postecoglu certainly dominated the ball but it was very quick and typified by constant movement.

I also think a manager has to quickly learn that in a large number of our home games teams are going to sit in and be very stuffy. If we try to let other teams dominate the ball and play counter attacking football at home to Ross County or St Johnstone then you are going to be dealing with some very frustrated fans very quickly and be on the end of more than 1 or 2 'embarrassing' results.

I don't think any of those require a prior knowledge of the Scottish game; rather they need a bit of pragmatism and an ability to learn and adapt quickly. It's arguably an unwillingness or inability to do so that has cost 3 or 4 recent managers their jobs here.

[Hibbyradge]

Does that not apply to Stoke as well?

Try Grimsby on a blustery Wednesday in January, or Blackpool anytime! :wink:

[JimBHibees]

I have to say I don’t get that school of thought and find it very frustrating to read.

Playing devils advocate though I think there is a few things they need to understand.

-you need to win battles, Heckingbottom tried to play a midfield without someone that could tackle and it didn’t work. The game here is fast and furious and you need players who can play that way.

-I think you need to accept you need to play a different way when playing away at Celtic compared to what you play at home against St Johnstone for example.

- if you underestimate it you’ll last 5 minutes. It’s a much better and more competitive league than it’s given credit for.

Where I get frustrated though is the idea you need to have experience of Scottish football to understand the above. You just need to spend 5 minutes learning about it. It’s not some magical land with complex tactics that you need a 5 year education in, just give it the respect it deserves.

Yep all things considered it is a pretty basic league where rudimentary tactics work and more physical teams get away with much more than they should. Poor standard of refereeing plays into that imo. Leveins Hearts McInness Aberdeen being examples. Then when played in Europe get totally outplayed when's refs don't allow that physicality and more skilful teams expose them. Not rocket science it is football.

[Waxy]

I've seen this old cliché countless times regarding a potential new manager, but I don't know what it means.

"He knows the league."

"Understands Scottish football".

What's so different about the SPFL from other leagues that not having direct knowledge and experience of it is such a colossal handicap?

I suppose every league has its own unique brand of football.
But does he understand Hungarian football?
Equadorian football.
In a few week he’ll have had experience of Scottish football.

[CockneyRebel]

It’s knowing how to play in the howling wind and rain at Inverness on a Tuesday night, or understanding why rivalries exist and how important they are. It knowing stuff like Hamilton will just punt the ball and that, hearts are hammer throwers and prefer rugby. That kinda thing imo.


All of the above happens throughout English football including the weather.

[WhileTheChief..]

Folk have talked about the Scottish game being different for as long as I e watched football.

I’d imagine people in other countries say similar about their own leagues.

The game is played differently in different countries without doubt.

You just need to watch Sportscene then MOTD to see the difference.

[Jones28]

Try Grimsby on a blustery Wednesday in January, or Blackpool anytime! :wink:

I've ticked that particular footballing experience off my list, I was a Mariner Feb 2015 - Nov 2015. :coolhib:

[Hibbyradge]

Folk have talked about the Scottish game being different for as long as I e watched football.

I’d imagine people in other countries say similar about their own leagues.

The game is played differently in different countries without doubt.

You just need to watch Sportscene then MOTD to see the difference.

There is doubt.

What are the differences that incoming managers must have experience of?

[Hibbyradge]

I've ticked that particular footballing experience off my list, I was a Mariner Feb 2015 - Nov 2015. :coolhib:

Summertime! :hilarious

[heretoday]

You don't get much against the Old Firm. That's the Scottish Game in a nutshell.

[WhileTheChief..]

I never mentioned managers but as you ask, for starters, a manager from Scotland is well aware of opposing teams and players.

Someone coming from abroad will likely have never heard of a single player from Livvi, Ross Co et al.

We talk about how so and so will set their team up against us, based on prior experience and knowledge. A new coach from abroad won’t have that to draw on.

Every time you hear a manager being interviewed he’ll talk about how hard it is going to Pittodrie or similar. A foreign manger wouldn’t have a clue and wouldn’t know what to expect.

Whenever we’ve signed a player from abroad you’ll see posts here saying the player will need time to adjust and settle. Does that not also apply to a manager?

Now, all of a sudden because we’re interested in someone coming from abroad we’ve just to dismiss any concerns we previously held? Seems a bit naive to me.

We’ve had LJ, Heckingbottom and Calderwood all coming from England without ever being involved in our game and they were disasters.

I know that doesn’t mean everyone from outwith Scotland will follow suit, but it should at least act as a warning.

[greenginger]

You don't get much against the Old Firm. That's the Scottish Game in a nutshell.

Absolutely no point in appealing for a penalty at Ibrox.

They are only given to the home team.

[WhileTheChief..]

Italian football has always been described as being slow and defensive. Their national side built their reputation on it.

Brazil have a reputation for free flowing attacking football

Different countries have different styles. It’s always been the case.

[Stubbsy90+2]

I never mentioned managers but as you ask, for starters, a manager from Scotland is well aware of opposing teams and players.

Someone coming from abroad will likely have never heard of a single player from Livvi, Ross Co et al.

We talk about how so and so will set their team up against us, based on prior experience and knowledge. A new coach from abroad won’t have that to draw on.

Every time you hear a manager being interviewed he’ll talk about how hard it is going to Pittodrie or similar. A foreign manger wouldn’t have a clue and wouldn’t know what to expect.

Whenever we’ve signed a player from abroad you’ll see posts here saying the player will need time to adjust and settle. Does that not also apply to a manager?

Now, all of a sudden because we’re interested in someone coming from abroad we’ve just to dismiss any concerns we previously held? Seems a bit naive to me.

We’ve had LJ, Heckingbottom and Calderwood all coming from England without ever being involved in our game and they were disasters.

I know that doesn’t mean everyone from outwith Scotland will follow suit, but it should at least act as a warning.

:agree:

[bingo70]

I never mentioned managers but as you ask, for starters, a manager from Scotland is well aware of opposing teams and players.

Someone coming from abroad will likely have never heard of a single player from Livvi, Ross Co et al.

We talk about how so and so will set their team up against us, based on prior experience and knowledge. A new coach from abroad won’t have that to draw on.

Every time you hear a manager being interviewed he’ll talk about how hard it is going to Pittodrie or similar. A foreign manger wouldn’t have a clue and wouldn’t know what to expect.

Whenever we’ve signed a player from abroad you’ll see posts here saying the player will need time to adjust and settle. Does that not also apply to a manager?

Now, all of a sudden because we’re interested in someone coming from abroad we’ve just to dismiss any concerns we previously held? Seems a bit naive to me.

We’ve had LJ, Heckingbottom and Calderwood all coming from England without ever being involved in our game and they were disasters.

I know that doesn’t mean everyone from outwith Scotland will follow suit, but it should at least act as a warning.

Maybe to get an idea of players at these clubs and the challenges at these stadiums, they could watch videos, attend games not involving Hibs and lean on coaching staff who are already at the club.

Not having first hand experience of Scottish football really isn’t close to being an insurmountable problem.

I don’t think a player and manager needing time to settle is the same thing. A manager can do a lot of homework and learn a lot about it whilst not being involved in the match, it’s very difficult/impossible for a player to replicate match game situations in non competitive training scenarios.

[Torto7]

There is doubt.

What are the differences that incoming managers must have experience of?

Physicality is one. The leagues in England have changed the refereeing to make it less physical. It's far more possession based now. Every manager that's came here from down south has talked about it. Some of the 'tackles' you see in Scotland are straight reds elsewhere and here a yellow at most see Youan at the weekend for an example. Part of me likes this though as I like a physical game.

Apart from this I don't think it's any different and you're quite right that there's no reason to suspect anyone from outside can't handle it.

[easty]

The Scottish game is quick, not technically great, and pretty physical.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that a manager with no knowledge of Scottish football could struggle at first.

If you come here thinking you can bring in your own style from somewhere else, and you're stubborn with it, you're going to struggle.

It's important that we get someone who comes in and attempts to get the best out of what we have, not shoehorn players into a system they're not good at.

[Pretty Boy]

The Scottish game is quick, not technically great, and pretty physical.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that a manager with no knowledge of Scottish football could struggle at first.

If you come here thinking you can bring in your own style from somewhere else, and you're stubborn with it, you're going to struggle.

It's important that we get someone who comes in and attempts to get the best out of what we have, not shoehorn players into a system they're not good at.

:agree:

In a nutshell.

The idea that the game isn't played differently in different places is an odd argument. Likewise the idea it is an insurmountable problem for even an average manager with a bit of common sense is equally odd.

[Daily Hibs]

I've seen this old cliché countless times regarding a potential new manager, but I don't know what it means.

"He knows the league."

"Understands Scottish football".

What's so different about the SPFL from other leagues that not having direct knowledge and experience of it is such a colossal handicap?

Scottish football is totally different from English Football. The games are referred differently, the game is played at a frantic pace but not full of skill and is win at all costs due to saying each other 4 times a season.

If a manager doesnt understand these things they will be toast as we've seen.

[Dmas]

I think it’s a statement chucked about by the football media in this country for so long to keep there pals on the merry go round it’s became fact, any professional will have done their homework on the club and league they are joining prior to any interview especially the ones uprooting there families from half way round the world.
If guys like SDG and Daz aren’t giving info to any new man about what to expect from teams like Livi or the senior pros in the squad aren’t giving the heads up we’re in bother surely falls into their remit as well

[Hibernian Verse]

I never mentioned managers but as you ask, for starters, a manager from Scotland is well aware of opposing teams and players.

Someone coming from abroad will likely have never heard of a single player from Livvi, Ross Co et al.

We talk about how so and so will set their team up against us, based on prior experience and knowledge. A new coach from abroad won’t have that to draw on.

Every time you hear a manager being interviewed he’ll talk about how hard it is going to Pittodrie or similar. A foreign manger wouldn’t have a clue and wouldn’t know what to expect.

Whenever we’ve signed a player from abroad you’ll see posts here saying the player will need time to adjust and settle. Does that not also apply to a manager?

Now, all of a sudden because we’re interested in someone coming from abroad we’ve just to dismiss any concerns we previously held? Seems a bit naive to me.

We’ve had LJ, Heckingbottom and Calderwood all coming from England without ever being involved in our game and they were disasters.

I know that doesn’t mean everyone from outwith Scotland will follow suit, but it should at least act as a warning.

He will have some of the existing backroom team to call upon who know the players at Livi & Ross Co very well though and it won't take him long to get up to speed if he puts the work in behind the scenes.

Secondly, a pedantic comment coming up - LJ played in Scotland.

[basehibby]

Prior knowledge of the Scottish game is useful but not essential for a new managerial appointment.

If they've played or managed here before it can help them hit the ground running. It's not essential though, as if they have the requisite skills and qualities they'll soon get up to speed.

[Donegal Hibby]

Every leagues different imo. The Scottish games one that's probably played at a lot faster pace than most and probably more physical though it's a exciting league imo .

This we need a manager with a knowledge of the league doesn't really matter to me as if the manager's good enough at tactics and has us playing the right way , we will be ok . If it's Montgomery that gets it he's got some excellent people at our club with a great knowledge of the Scottish game in SDG , McGregor, McDermott and so on . Don't see a problem tbh .

There's been managers at us and other clubs with a good knowledge of the Scottish game that's failed in the past like Butcher ,hammell, Goodwin ,glass , Neilson , LJ ( both LJ and McAllister had over 300: appearances between them of Scottish football) . Ange postecoglou hadn't any knowledge of the Scottish game , think there was a foreign guy at Dundee Utd that won a cup too.

Having a good knowledge of the Scottish game doesn't necessarily make you a good manager if that was the case most of us would want a ex Scotland , Dundee Utd and hertz manager then ? 😂😂😂

[Victor]

Defining features of the Scottish game can mostly be applied to any country in Europe, just with different accents.

What sets Scottish football apart for me is the sectarianism amongst its two biggest clubs being actively exploited by both teams because it sells jerseys.

I wouldn't swap Scottish football for anything, but I would see the sectarianism booted in to outer space so quick it would singe your eyebrows.

I think this is a good point. This is something that outsiders won’t experience. The gulf in wealth between the OF and other clubs that doesn’t stem from wealthy owners, but because they recruit support not just from local areas, but from people that follow an outdated and malignant belief system, that no other forward thinking society would tolerate. That the two ‘Glasgow’ teams represent more than just football.

[jacomo]

Scottish football is the high tempo, low skills version of the game. Sometimes played in atrocious weather and/or terrible pitches, in front of vociferous supporters. It’s frenetic and chaotic.

Anyone can learn this. But I believe many people underestimate the game up here, and misjudge the type of player who can thrive in Scottish football.

[Hibbyradge]

Scottish football is totally different from English Football. The games are referred differently, the game is played at a frantic pace but not full of skill and is win at all costs due to saying each other 4 times a season.

If a manager doesnt understand these things they will be toast as we've seen.

Have you seen many League One and Two games? I have and there's very little difference in the type of football, the speed of play, or for the most part, the skills on show.

I doubt there's anything particularly unique to the Scottish game that any manager with eyes in their head and half a brain couldn't come to terms with virtually instantly.

[jacomo]

Have you seen many League One and Two games? I have and there's very little difference in the type of football, the speed of play, or for the most part, the skills on show.

I doubt there's anything particularly unique to the Scottish game that any manager with eyes in their head and half a brain couldn't come to terms with virtually instantly.


And yet many players from those leagues struggle to adapt, despite maybe earning more in England than they do in Scotland.

[Curried]

Lets just face it, we're just too wee and too ***** to be a proper football nation like England.

[Daily Hibs]

And yet many players from those leagues struggle to adapt, despite maybe earning more in England than they do in Scotland.

Exactly. So many players and managers have come up to Scotland and struggled.

The standout who hasn't struggled has been Gary Bowyer who I'd have taken at Hibs in a heartbeat. Great manager.

[Daily Hibs]

Have you seen many League One and Two games? I have and there's very little difference in the type of football, the speed of play, or for the most part, the skills on show.

I doubt there's anything particularly unique to the Scottish game that any manager with eyes in their head and half a brain couldn't come to terms with virtually instantly.

Sorry but have you not seen how many players and managers we have had that have come up from those leagues and struggled. Look at Hecky and LJs teams.

Further back look at Clayton Donaldson. Even Eoin Doyle struggled a bit up here and yet was a goal machine in EFL, Donaldson too.

There is a difference.

[Torto7]

Have you seen many League One and Two games? I have and there's very little difference in the type of football, the speed of play, or for the most part, the skills on show.

I doubt there's anything particularly unique to the Scottish game that any manager with eyes in their head and half a brain couldn't come to terms with virtually instantly.


That's wrong from being a Cambridge fan for the last 20 years. The game in the lower leagues has drastically lost the level of physicality it had in the past. The work coaches have done via the FA was designed to try and reduce the level of contact in challenges to try and improve technical standards across the league.

[Hibbyradge]

And yet many players from those leagues struggle to adapt, despite maybe earning more in England than they do in Scotland.

We're just buying the wrong players if they can't adapt.

We've had plenty successful guys from those leagues and we've had failures.

Exactly as we've had from the SPFL.

[Hibbyradge]

Sorry but have you not seen how many players and managers we have had that have come up from those leagues and struggled. Look at Hecky and LJs teams.

Further back look at Clayton Donaldson. Even Eoin Doyle struggled a bit up here and yet was a goal machine in EFL, Donaldson too.

There is a difference.

Have you seen how many players from the SPFL who have struggled?

[Hibernian Verse]

Have you seen how many players from the SPFL who have struggled?

I will not have Rowan Vine slander on Hibs.net.

[allezsauzee]

I'd say the key thing I'm bothered about in terms of managers knowing "the scottish game" is knowing the required quality. I think that sometimes because lower league teams in England are paying similar wages , that there is an assumption that their players are good enough.

[Hibbyradge]

That's wrong from being a Cambridge fan for the last 20 years. The game in the lower leagues has drastically lost the level of physicality it had in the past. The work coaches have done via the FA was designed to try and reduce the level of contact in challenges to try and improve technical standards across the league.

I haven't been aware of a difference in physicality but I haven't been looking at that specifically, so I'll take you at your word.

I mostly see Bradford in L2 but Carlisle who were just promoted are no shrinking violets, you can be assured of that! You'll enjoy that game. :wink:

[blackpoolhibs]

Try Grimsby on a blustery Wednesday in January, or Blackpool anytime! :wink:

It's roasting, you would think you were in Puerta Banus if you walked along the prom today. :wink:

[Hibbyradge]

It's roasting, you would think you were in Puerta Banus if you walked along the prom today. :wink:

I'm sure, but there's not a match on! :greengrin

[Musselbound]

Bit of an aside, but a similar argument comes up whenever Scotland is looking for a new manager.We need a manager who "has played for Scotland" or "knows what being Scottish means" etc.

Ok so the current manager is Scottish and indeed doing a fine job right now but I don't really get this concept either. You often hear "we tried a foreign manager (Berti Vogts) and look what happened there", as if we should never go down that road again because once upon a time it didn't work out.

Good managers who know their stuff and are well supported will soon get to grips with a new environment.

[Lancs Harp]

Thought it meant curling.

[Hibbyradge]

Thought it meant curling.

:giruy2:

:hilarious

[jacomo]

We're just buying the wrong players if they can't adapt.

We've had plenty successful guys from those leagues and we've had failures.

Exactly as we've had from the SPFL.


Yes of course we are buying the wrong players! That’s the point.

I went to a Leyton Orient game a couple of years ago, the locals were loving their exciting wing back… Tom James. To be fair he looked quite useful at that level. But not with us.

[Jones28]

I will not have Rowan Vine slander on Hibs.net.

You’re right. May his name never be spoken. Like Voldemort.

Except Voldemort is less of a journeyman cart horse ****** who didn’t try a leg for us.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Italian football has always been described as being slow and defensive. Their national side built their reputation on it.

Brazil have a reputation for free flowing attacking football

Different countries have different styles. It’s always been the case.

Less true now surely what with the globalisation of the game and every country being influenced by players from elsewhere.

The English top flight of today has very little in common with its predecessors in the 1970s and 1980s in terms of style or anything else. There's nothing particularly 'English' about it. That has even rubbed off on the English national team now too. Brazil rarely play the free flowing attacking play that they are famous for either. Everywhere is just becoming more homogenous.

I will concede that scottish football mostly retains its, erm, earthy quality

[HoboHarry]

Less true now surely what with the globalisation of the game and every country being influenced by players from elsewhere.

The English top flight of today has very little in common with its predecessors in the 1970s and 1980s in terms of style or anything else. There's nothing particularly 'English' about it. That has even rubbed off on the English national team now too. Brazil rarely play the free flowing attacking play that they are famous for either. Everywhere is just becoming more homogenous.

I will concede that scottish football mostly retains its, erm, earthy quality
I like that homogenous stuff. Good for dipping chips and even raw vegetables in and doesn't make your breath stink like tzatziki does.

[ancient hibee]

I think there has to be an acknowledgment that the game is often played at a break neck speed in Scotland, not necessarily prior knowledge of that but a willingness to adapt to it is probably required. Of course a lot of leagues play far slicker and quicker football but it's a weird kind of speed in Scotland that can see teams run off their feet if they aren't prepared for it. I would argue our results against Luzern are a clear example of when that can be an advantage. Their manager was mouthing off post game about how much better they were than us and if we are talking about purely technical ability then he is probably right. Over 2 legs though we were well worth our win despite not playing football that was as intricate or pretty. It arguably impacts players more than managers; think of Joey Barton watching as 3 Hamilton midfielders strolled past him at will on his debut. He went on to play EPL football again after that episode. Roy Keane admitted he knew he was done when Brown, Stewart et al were walking past him and at Hibs Edwin De Graaf was a technically sound player but was miles off the pace here. I'm just not convinced anyone wanting to play a really, slow, patient, possession based game is going to succeed here. Celtic under Postecoglu certainly dominated the ball but it was very quick and typified by constant movement.

I also think a manager has to quickly learn that in a large number of our home games teams are going to sit in and be very stuffy. If we try to let other teams dominate the ball and play counter attacking football at home to Ross County or St Johnstone then you are going to be dealing with some very frustrated fans very quickly and be on the end of more than 1 or 2 'embarrassing' results.


't think any of those require a prior knowledge of the Scottish game; rather they need a bit of pragmatism and an ability to learn and adapt quickly. It's arguably an unwillingness or inability to do so that has cost 3 or 4 recent managers their jobs here.

Trouble here is the speed is in the legs and not between the ears where it would be more beneficial.

[LewysGot2]

Too much of it is played on substandard plastic pitches…by wee clubs in the top flight just trying to get by. The product is affected by this frustrating phenomenon…we should insist our product is played on grass.

[matty_f]

I never mentioned managers but as you ask, for starters, a manager from Scotland is well aware of opposing teams and players.

Someone coming from abroad will likely have never heard of a single player from Livvi, Ross Co et al.

We talk about how so and so will set their team up against us, based on prior experience and knowledge. A new coach from abroad won’t have that to draw on.

Every time you hear a manager being interviewed he’ll talk about how hard it is going to Pittodrie or similar. A foreign manger wouldn’t have a clue and wouldn’t know what to expect.

Whenever we’ve signed a player from abroad you’ll see posts here saying the player will need time to adjust and settle. Does that not also apply to a manager?

Now, all of a sudden because we’re interested in someone coming from abroad we’ve just to dismiss any concerns we previously held? Seems a bit naive to me.

We’ve had LJ, Heckingbottom and Calderwood all coming from England without ever being involved in our game and they were disasters.

I know that doesn’t mean everyone from outwith Scotland will follow suit, but it should at least act as a warning.

Imagine the new guy comes in, gets the team together for the pre-match meeting ahead of a visit to Aberdeen.

"This is going to be a very easy place to go" he says.

There's a laugh at the back.

"What? What's funny?"

"Nothing gaffer"

We lose. Obviously.


Afterwards the manager asks his assistant ( and David Gray, who's still here) "why did nobody tell me Aberdeen is a tough place to go?"

Everyone looks at their feet, awkward, unsure whether they should mention that Rangers away next week might also be difficult.

[007]

I never mentioned managers but as you ask, for starters, a manager from Scotland is well aware of opposing teams and players.

Someone coming from abroad will likely have never heard of a single player from Livvi, Ross Co et al.

We talk about how so and so will set their team up against us, based on prior experience and knowledge. A new coach from abroad won’t have that to draw on.

Every time you hear a manager being interviewed he’ll talk about how hard it is going to Pittodrie or similar. A foreign manger wouldn’t have a clue and wouldn’t know what to expect.

Whenever we’ve signed a player from abroad you’ll see posts here saying the player will need time to adjust and settle. Does that not also apply to a manager?

Now, all of a sudden because we’re interested in someone coming from abroad we’ve just to dismiss any concerns we previously held? Seems a bit naive to me.

We’ve had LJ, Heckingbottom and Calderwood all coming from England without ever being involved in our game and they were disasters.

I know that doesn’t mean everyone from outwith Scotland will follow suit, but it should at least act as a warning.

Lets see you rattle off a nice long list of successful Hibs managers that knew the Scottish game, that came to Hibs in the top league.

[Forza Fred]

I never mentioned managers but as you ask, for starters, a manager from Scotland is well aware of opposing teams and players.

Someone coming from abroad will likely have never heard of a single player from Livvi, Ross Co et al.

We talk about how so and so will set their team up against us, based on prior experience and knowledge. A new coach from abroad won’t have that to draw on.

Every time you hear a manager being interviewed he’ll talk about how hard it is going to Pittodrie or similar. A foreign manger wouldn’t have a clue and wouldn’t know what to expect.

Whenever we’ve signed a player from abroad you’ll see posts here saying the player will need time to adjust and settle. Does that not also apply to a manager?

Now, all of a sudden because we’re interested in someone coming from abroad we’ve just to dismiss any concerns we previously held? Seems a bit naive to me.

We’ve had LJ, Heckingbottom and Calderwood all coming from England without ever being involved in our game and they were disasters.

I know that doesn’t mean everyone from outwith Scotland will follow suit, but it should at least act as a warning.

But you would expect your assistants to give you a run down surely?

And do they no do video analysis of teams they are due to meet in Scotland?

I get the ‘fear of the unknown’ factor, so can see why you are perturbed, but a new manager anywhere surely asks the right questions of his staff and absorbs background information.

[lyonhibs]

Imagine the new guy comes in, gets the team together for the pre-match meeting ahead of a visit to Aberdeen.

"This is going to be a very easy place to go" he says.

There's a laugh at the back.

"What? What's funny?"

"Nothing gaffer"

We lose. Obviously.


Afterwards the manager asks his assistant ( and David Gray, who's still here) "why did nobody tell me Aberdeen is a tough place to go?"

Everyone looks at their feet, awkward, unsure whether they should mention that Rangers away next week might also be difficult.

Hahaha indeed. On top of that, as if any new manager worth his salt won't have done a good bit of research into the league etc before accepting the job 🤣

[JimBHibees]

Have you seen many League One and Two games? I have and there's very little difference in the type of football, the speed of play, or for the most part, the skills on show.

I doubt there's anything particularly unique to the Scottish game that any manager with eyes in their head and half a brain couldn't come to terms with virtually instantly.

Totally agree some of these leagues are off the scale in terms of physicality. In general much bigger players playing route one. The league Montgomery predominantly played his whole Uk career was the championship which only recently is more technical and was way more physical than the top league in Scotalnd. I watched a championship game about 15 years ago between Derby and Palace and the key difference was how absolutely massive most of the players were.

[WhileTheChief..]

But you would expect your assistants to give you a run down surely?

And do they no do video analysis of teams they are due to meet in Scotland?

I get the ‘fear of the unknown’ factor, so can see why you are perturbed, but a new manager anywhere surely asks the right questions of his staff and absorbs background information.

None of what I posted here is in relation to Montgomery. We’re having a general chat about the game in Scotland.

You can all laugh or scoff at the points I’ve raised but they’re valid points that have always been around the game here and have regularly been mentioned on this forum.

Some of you are taking the Montgomery thing way too personally.

[WhileTheChief..]

Imagine the new guy comes in, gets the team together for the pre-match meeting ahead of a visit to Aberdeen.

"This is going to be a very easy place to go" he says.

There's a laugh at the back.

"What? What's funny?"

"Nothing gaffer"

We lose. Obviously.


Afterwards the manager asks his assistant ( and David Gray, who's still here) "why did nobody tell me Aberdeen is a tough place to go?"

Everyone looks at their feet, awkward, unsure whether they should mention that Rangers away next week might also be difficult.

Trying to imagine this scenario but nah, can’t see it happening at all. What’s the point you’re trying to make?

Are we now saying that someone coming from abroad isn’t disadvantaged in any way in comparison from someone familiar with the league?

If NM loses his first few games it will because he needs time to familiarise himself with the players and other teams.

For every Ange Postecoglou there’s a Pedro Caixinha.

[Smartie]

Trying to imagine this scenario but nah, can’t see it happening at all. What’s the point you’re trying to make?

Are we now saying that someone coming from abroad isn’t disadvantaged in any way in comparison from someone familiar with the league?

If NM loses his first few games it will because he needs time to familiarise himself with the players and other teams.

For every Ange Postecoglou there’s a Pedro Caixinha.

For every Neil Lennon there's a Neil Lennon.

[Tyler Durden]

Who are the managers who have come in with no experience of playing or coaching in Scotland, that have been successful? Excluding the Old Firm as they are in their own little league.

I can think of Stephen Robinson - who was actually their assistant for a period before he took over - and not really any others.

[CropleyWasGod]

Who are the managers who have come in with no experience of playing or coaching in Scotland, that have been successful? Excluding the Old Firm as they are in their own little league.

I can think of Stephen Robinson - who was actually their assistant for a period before he took over - and not really any others.

Golac at United

One of the guys at Hearts :greengrin

[flash]

Who are the managers who have come in with no experience of playing or coaching in Scotland, that have been successful? Excluding the Old Firm as they are in their own little league.

I can think of Stephen Robinson - who was actually their assistant for a period before he took over - and not really any others.

You can't exclude the Old Firm though. They are the only clubs who are ultimately successful.

[Tyler Durden]

You can't exclude the Old Firm though. They are the only clubs who are ultimately successful.

Yeah, you can. It's a different planet for them.

Rangers and Celtic coaches aren't comparable to the candidates Hibs could appoint just because they've come from abroad. Hibs are not going to be able to take the manager who just won the J League for example. And that's barely in the top 20 leagues in the world.

If there are so many great candidates from abroad then why did Hearts or Aberdeen not appoint them?

If Montgomery comes in and he's a success it'll be an exception to the rule.

[Tyler Durden]

Golac at United

One of the guys at Hearts :greengrin

How did I forget him ha ha.... Albeit he had the benefit of paying 130% of their turnover in wages.

[Hibernian Verse]

Yeah, you can. It's a different planet for them.

Rangers and Celtic coaches aren't comparable to the candidates Hibs could appoint just because they've come from abroad. Hibs are not going to be able to take the manager who just won the J League for example. And that's barely in the top 20 leagues in the world.

If there are so many great candidates from abroad then why did Hearts or Aberdeen not appoint them?

If Montgomery comes in and he's a success it'll be an exception to the rule.

Great question, I'd love to know why Cormack and Budge appointed and are sticking by the guys they did. One has improper badges, the other has only beat Stirling Albion this season.

[flash]

Yeah, you can. It's a different planet for them.

Rangers and Celtic coaches aren't comparable to the candidates Hibs could appoint just because they've come from abroad. Hibs are not going to be able to take the manager who just won the J League for example. And that's barely in the top 20 leagues in the world.

If there are so many great candidates from abroad then why did Hearts or Aberdeen not appoint them?

If Montgomery comes in and he's a success it'll be an exception to the rule.

How's that working out for Aberdeen and Hertz?

[CapitalGreen]

Who are the managers who have come in with no experience of playing or coaching in Scotland, that have been successful? Excluding the Old Firm as they are in their own little league.

I can think of Stephen Robinson - who was actually their assistant for a period before he took over - and not really any others.

Paulo Sergio
Valdas Ivanauskas
Tommy Wright

[007]

Who are the managers who have come in with no experience of playing or coaching in Scotland, that have been successful? Excluding the Old Firm as they are in their own little league.

I can think of Stephen Robinson - who was actually their assistant for a period before he took over - and not really any others.

Who are the Hibs managers that knew the Scottish league and were successful? Excluding those who came to Hibs when we were in the 2nd tier because at that level we should be the equivalent to the OF in the top tier. Also, it isn't a direct comparison with having to come to Hibs in the top tier.

[Unseen work]

I think just how physical it is and knowing that some teams will happily sit back and punt balls forward to the big striker.

Then there’s the fact is is a small league but massively supported scrutinised by all, some managers will have been at big clubs but with nowhere near the pressure of being at Hibs for example. There’s a lot of demands to be deemed successful. Top 4 finish (our budget is 5th), cup finals, compete/beat the old firm and hearts and play attacking football.

And finally the fans, they play a massive part. Scottish fans are just very impatient imo, if you pass it out from the back and keep possession you’ll be met with groans and eventually when it’s a bit too tight or too deep the famous “get it up the park” and “stop f*****g about with it” shouts.

[WestStandWillie]

I've seen this old cliché countless times regarding a potential new manager, but I don't know what it means.

"He knows the league."

"Understands Scottish football".

What's so different about the SPFL from other leagues that not having direct knowledge and experience of it is such a colossal handicap?

All just buzzword and phrases spouted by BBC mouthpieces and Tam "I claim to know stuff despite being a bang average footballer" McManus.

[Tyler Durden]

Paulo Sergio
Valdas Ivanauskas
Tommy Wright

So the two Jambos who benefitted from financial doping and Tommy Wright who was assistant for two years before he got the gig.

[Smartie]

I think just how physical it is and knowing that some teams will happily sit back and punt balls forward to the big striker.

Then there’s the fact is is a small league but massively supported scrutinised by all, some managers will have been at big clubs but with nowhere near the pressure of being at Hibs for example. There’s a lot of demands to be deemed successful. Top 4 finish (our budget is 5th), cup finals, compete/beat the old firm and hearts and play attacking football.

And finally the fans, they play a massive part. Scottish fans are just very impatient imo, if you pass it out from the back and keep possession you’ll be met with groans and eventually when it’s a bit too tight or too deep the famous “get it up the park” and “stop f*****g about with it” shouts.

Not sure about the last part, certainly within our fan base.

There were plenty of moans and groans when Johnson's team turned into a hoofball out fit earlier this season, but there's definitely a sweet spot somewhere between repeatedly aimlessly punting the ball up the park and aimless possession for possession's sake and trying to make out that you deserved to win a game you didn't because you had more of the ball than the opposition.

[Unseen work]

Not sure about the last part, certainly within our fan base.

There were plenty of moans and groans when Johnson's team turned into a hoofball out fit earlier this season, but there's definitely a sweet spot somewhere between repeatedly aimlessly punting the ball up the park and aimless possession for possession's sake and trying to make out that you deserved to win a game you didn't because you had more of the ball than the opposition.

I personally would say there’s a sweet spot for sure where you get ultimate attacking football and it’s 100mph, but to do that for a full game is nearly impossible.

But what is possession for possession sake? Keeping the ball, moving it about and tiring out the opposition and then make your move when it presents, that cannot be a bad thing imo. Look at Villa when we played them, really slow build up and kept the ball moving along the back and then one player turns off and it’s a goal - Villa fans said themselves they never liked it to begin with but now see how positive it is.

At the first leg I saw Villa passing it along the back 4 whilst being pressed and the fans around me were saying “look at that, that’s brilliant, that’s the difference” and second half Hibs done similar in a spell and they were going off their head saying to get rid.

My point is, I think most foreign managers will play the “possession for possession sakes” type of football which will be successful for them, but when you come to Scotland it doesn’t work as some fans just hate it.

[Hibbyradge]

Who are the managers who have come in with no experience of playing or coaching in Scotland, that have been successful? Excluding the Old Firm as they are in their own little league.

I can think of Stephen Robinson - who was actually their assistant for a period before he took over - and not really any others.

How many managers with masses of experience of playing and coaching in Scotland have been successful?

The percentage success rate will be attrociously low.

[Hibbyradge]

And finally the fans, they play a massive part. Scottish fans are just very impatient imo, if you pass it out from the back and keep possession you’ll be met with groans and eventually when it’s a bit too tight or too deep the famous “get it up the park” and “stop f*****g about with it” shouts.

That's most certainly not the case at Hibs.

[CapitalGreen]

So the two Jambos who benefitted from financial doping and Tommy Wright who was assistant for two years before he got the gig.

If Sergio and Ivanauskas had it so easy, how come they were the only managers to bring success to Hearts during that time?

Who was Tommy Wright assistant to? Steve Lomas - another successful manager with no prior Scottish experience.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I think just how physical it is and knowing that some teams will happily sit back and punt balls forward to the big striker.

Then there’s the fact is is a small league but massively supported scrutinised by all, some managers will have been at big clubs but with nowhere near the pressure of being at Hibs for example. There’s a lot of demands to be deemed successful. Top 4 finish (our budget is 5th), cup finals, compete/beat the old firm and hearts and play attacking football.

And finally the fans, they play a massive part. Scottish fans are just very impatient imo, if you pass it out from the back and keep possession you’ll be met with groans and eventually when it’s a bit too tight or too deep the famous “get it up the park” and “stop f*****g about with it” shouts.

It would be interesting to see how many goals have been conceded through teams losing possession within 30 yards of their goal since playing out from the back became more fashionable. In the league where it's almost become a religion, the EPL, it seems to be a weekly occurrence if MOTD is anything to go by, even though that league is packed with quick thinking technical players.

It seems to me that sometimes, especially for teams without quick thinking technical players, the sensible option in a tight situation is indeed to 'stop f***ing about and get it up the park' .... in the end I'm willing to wager that if you look at the very best defensive players to have played this game the ability to realise when launching it is the best option was as much a factor in making them great as the ability to play tidy wee triangles round a high press was :greengrin

[Unseen work]

That's most certainly not the case at Hibs.

May not be your view, but it does happen. Heard it many times in the stands by those around me and under Maloney people were losing their head every time a ball was played backwards.

[Hibbyradge]

May not be your view, but it does happen. Heard it many times in the stands by those around me and under Maloney people were losing their head every time a ball was played backwards.

Sure, there's a few dafties, but by and large, Hibs fans prefer football to hoofball.

[Unseen work]

Sure, there's a few dafties, but by and large, Hibs fans prefer football to hoofball.

I think the prefer a Mowbray type of team, 100%.

But my point is in relation to what is the Scottish game and why do people think it’s so important to have a knowledge of it. My opinion is that foreign managers coming in will want to play complete possession football, someone on here has already referred to it as “possession for possession sake”. When a team starts playing like that and struggle to score (Maloney) fans ultimately get frustrated in Scotland and want a more direct approach imo.

[matty_f]

Trying to imagine this scenario but nah, can’t see it happening at all. What’s the point you’re trying to make?

Are we now saying that someone coming from abroad isn’t disadvantaged in any way in comparison from someone familiar with the league?

If NM loses his first few games it will because he needs time to familiarise himself with the players and other teams.

For every Ange Postecoglou there’s a Pedro Caixinha.

I think it's a weak point.

The Scottish game is televised, any manager coming in has thousands of hours of footage to review to understand the Scottish game, and that's going on the very unlikely basis that they have never watched Scottish football before.

Over and above that, the club is full of folk who know the Scottish game who can support.

There are tons of managers who have taken on clubs in Scotland with plenty of experience of Scottish football who have done nothing.

[Smartie]

May not be your view, but it does happen. Heard it many times in the stands by those around me and under Maloney people were losing their head every time a ball was played backwards.

I thought the football under Maloney was absolutely dreadful and I hated it. Normally I'm one for possession football and "playing the right way" too.

It's hard to pin down exactly what was wrong but I just didn't get it. It was aimless, directionless, dull and led to very few goalscoring chances. It tired us out more than the opposition.

I'm led to believe the players didn't love it either and that a few of them via David Gray all went to him to state "look, we don't get what you're trying to get us to do here". They liked him enough, they just didn't really get it.

There's nothing aesthetically better imo than a long, passing move that ends with an incisive bit of play and a goal, football at it's best, but it has to have the feeling that at least sometimes it is going to go somewhere and I think fans can be forgiven for being a bit disgruntled when it doesn't go anywhere. I do think there is a place for patience though, and that the "just lump it up the park" brigade need to be blocked out - and they most certainly do exist.

The approach we take will depend on the players we have and I'm open minded to different approaches - as I think any manager should be. You've got to do what you've got to do to get the job done.

[Hibrandenburg]

Folk have talked about the Scottish game being different for as long as I e watched football.

I’d imagine people in other countries say similar about their own leagues.

The game is played differently in different countries without doubt.

You just need to watch Sportscene then MOTD to see the difference.

Yep, it's not just the standard that is different it's also the style. German football always reminds me of military manoeuvring except instead of fire and move it's pass and move.

[worcesterhibby]

As a Hibs manager, there are definitely three different categories of game and all require a pretty different approach:

Rangers/Celtic - defend for your lives, hit on the break
Hearts/Aberdeen - win the midfield battle, take your chances, don't take risks at the back
Most of the rest - be patient, break them down, you will get corners and free kicks, make the most of them.

[Sioux]

Yeah, you can. It's a different planet for them.

Rangers and Celtic coaches aren't comparable to the candidates Hibs could appoint just because they've come from abroad. Hibs are not going to be able to take the manager who just won the J League for example. And that's barely in the top 20 leagues in the world.

If there are so many great candidates from abroad then why did Hearts or Aberdeen not appoint them?

If Montgomery comes in and he's a success it'll be an exception to the rule.

If anyone comes in and he's a success it'll be an exception to the rule

[Tyler Durden]

If anyone comes in and he's a success it'll be an exception to the rule

Sadly true!

I'm not against Montgomery by any stretch. The whole process becoming almost an annual thing is all a bit draining tbh.

[James Stephen]

You can't exclude the Old Firm though. They are the only clubs who are ultimately successful.

Barnes lasted 5 minutes, Venglos one season, they didnt love Deila (unique circumstances admittedly) and Liam Brady was a disaster.

Huns have had Le Guen (hugely highly rated), Caixinha and GVB.

Of coaches with little or no Scottish experience, only Advocaat, Janssen, Rodgers and Ange have been big hits, possibly Stevie G too.

[CapitalGreen]

Barnes lasted 5 minutes, Venglos one season, they didnt love Deila (unique circumstances admittedly) and Liam Brady was a disaster.

Huns have had Le Guen (hugely highly rated), Caixinha and GVB.

Of coaches with little or no Scottish experience, only Advocaat, Janssen, Rodgers and Ange have been big hits, possibly Stevie G too.

GVB had Scottish football experience.

Gerrard was definitely a hit, stopped 10IAR and still the only manager to win Rangers a top flight title in over a decade.

[Since452]

GVB had Scottish football experience.

Gerrard was definitely a hit, stopped 10IAR and still the only manager to win Rangers a top flight title in over a decade.

Ever

[HoboHarry]

gvb had scottish football experience.

Gerrard was definitely a hit, stopped 10iar and still the only manager to win rangers a top flight title in their existence.
ftfy

[Eyrie]

If we want a manager with experience of the Scottish game then surely we should hire Dick Campbell?

[SChibs]

GVB had Scottish football experience.

Gerrard was definitely a hit, stopped 10IAR and still the only manager to win Rangers a top flight title in over a decade.

He was also unbeaten in the league that season. If that's not a hit I'm not sure what is

[JimBHibees]

Barnes lasted 5 minutes, Venglos one season, they didnt love Deila (unique circumstances admittedly) and Liam Brady was a disaster.

Huns have had Le Guen (hugely highly rated), Caixinha and GVB.

Of coaches with little or no Scottish experience, only Advocaat, Janssen, Rodgers and Ange have been big hits, possibly Stevie G too.

Delia won the league did he not?

[WeeRussell]

Barnes lasted 5 minutes, Venglos one season, they didnt love Deila (unique circumstances admittedly) and Liam Brady was a disaster.

Huns have had Le Guen (hugely highly rated), Caixinha and GVB.

Of coaches with little or no Scottish experience, only Advocaat, Janssen, Rodgers and Ange have been big hits, possibly Stevie G too.

So it’s worked out for a handful you can name with little to no Scottish experience and hasn’t for a handful of others….

I guess it is a totally nonsensical cliche after all.

[flash]

Is the answer Shinty?

[James Stephen]

So it’s worked out for a handful you can name with little to no Scottish experience and hasn’t for a handful of others….

I guess it is a totally nonsensical cliche after all.

Yeah, although thats a high failure rate for OF id have thought. The list for non OF will be higher.

[James Stephen]

Delia won the league did he not?

A couple of times i think

[I_Love_Latapy]

Completely agree with this. Could’ve written it myself and echoes something Heckingbottom said - in SPL every game is like a Cup tie as you’re either playing teams you should beat, close rivals, or big teams where you might nick a win. There’s rarely the sequence of evenly matched games you get down south and you have to adapt every game.

Does this mean SPL need Managers who know the league? No … but they need to learn quickly and adapt.


I get why folk have this issue but I don't really agree with it.

Down South there are certain aspects of football culture that are different to here. In the lower leagues there are 46 league games per season. Due to FFP rules, most of the teams are of a similar standard and the financial advantages held by the biggest clubs (like when a big club drops into league 1) are watered down a bit. A point on the road can often be considered to be a good result, and teams can play effectively and win lots of points hitting teams on the break.

Up here in the premier league we've got teams from EPL to league 2 standard all in the same league imo. At Hibs and at home we'll have a lot of teams come who have very little interest in having possession and taking us on at football. They'll have much less resource and will be used to utilising that to defend in depth and hit us on the break, therefore we'll need to have a squad that is as capable of dominating possession and winning lots of points against "weaker" teams as it is taking on similar sized clubs (Hearts and Aberdeen) and trying to nick bits here and there off Celtic and Rangers.

I reckon that's why you see a clearly capable manager in Heckingbottom fail at Hibs - he had his rigid 451 that didn't do enough to break teams down, and it's where a lot of our managers are going to fail if we take them from that market.

So it's nothing about "getting Scottish football" but everything about being able to put together a squad at Hibs that is effective in front of a restless Easter Road crowd but also effective when travelling to away grounds of clubs who have less resource but who can still put out handy, tough, difficult to beat teams.